Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Murder on a Submarine - Kim Wall

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Murder on a Submarine - Kim Wall · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In August of twenty seventeen, two people boarded a privately
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: built submarine in Copenhagen, a Swedish journalist who set out
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to write a story on the vessel and the captain
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: who had built it. However, within hours, that vessel had
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: sunk and only the captain was found, claiming he had
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: dropped off that journalist safely hours ago. However, as investigators
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: examined the evidence, that story began to fall apart, and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: what they uncovered instead was a case built on contradictions,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: forensic evidence, and a bloody crime scene that unfolded in
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: complete isolation under the surface of the ocean. This is
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the story of the submarine murder of Kim Wall.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're list listening to Wicked.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Ingrim, a true crime podcasting the following mature audience listener discretion.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: There we go.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: You got it.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: This is like my first drink in basically a week.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: It's gonna hit good.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: This is my first, nope, third drink today. I was
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: gonna say it's my first today, but.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: It's my realized it was your third drink today.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Holy for well, I had that mimosa and then I
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: had a glass of wine with dinner, and now I've
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: got a little glasses scotch here. Uh so I'm living
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: my life today.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I was super sick. I don't know. I feel like
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I hit it very well on the last episode. You
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: did so, but yeah, I was sicker than sick. So yeah,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I kindly, or I kindly. I finally am kind of
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: back to myself.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Which is a bit nice. And you went to the
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: gym today I did.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: It's crazy, though, just being sick for a week basically,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: well not even five days or so, how much it
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: impacts you, Like I couldn't even lift the same amount
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: of weights that I would have previously. Yeah, that's just
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: odd to me.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: But it's being sick does a number on a person, It.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Sure does, it does. Yeah, so today's episode sounds kind
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: of interesting, you think.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: So.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I don't think that someone could pay me to go
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: on a submarine.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: No, No, I would never go on one.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I love water, but I think it's just very like
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: deep bodies of water that I have kind of a
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: fear towards.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Well, rightfully, so they're terrifying.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have no idea what the hell is
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: in there?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: What is it? We've only explored something like five percent
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: of the world's oceans or something like, we have no
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: clue what.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the thought of just going because they're mostly
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: in oceans, are I guess maybe like super big lakes.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: But I just yeah, I don't think I would ever
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: say yes to that.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I think I would say yes, like really, like immediately,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: like without hesitation.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Really yes.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I would feel safe on board a submarine.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that surprises me.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Actually really yeah, I would not feel safe, Like it
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: depends on the journey. If someone's like, hey, you want
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to go to the bottom of the ocean and see
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the Titanic and I'm going to control our submarine with
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: this little game controller that happened a few years ago
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: with a billionaire, Yeah, I wouldn't be comfortable in that situation.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: We all know how that turned out. But if it's like, hey,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: let's just go for a chill ride in a submarine,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I'm totally down.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: But you so say if it was a legit, well
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: that probably was. I don't know how to work this,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: but say someone did offer for you to go to
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: the Titanic and it was just like the top of
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the notch, like this couldn't be any safer.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Oh if it couldn't be any if I was like
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: guaranteed and there was nothing sketchy about it, Yeah, I
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: probably would. Yeah, I probably do it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. No, I don't think I would want to.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: No.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I would probably just like increase our life insurance money
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: a little bit before you left and then stay home.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Increase your life our life sure insurance.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's super sketchy and like things can
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: go wrong.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I might probably be packing me a sandwich. Go ahead
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: on the submarine, ben, It's okay, I increase life insurance on.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: You do your thing. I may or may not see
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: you when you get back.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: But the thing is even what driving to work, you know,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: has some risks to it.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: So technically speaking, just existing has risks. Maybe you could
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: fall out of the sky at any moment.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Who knows, right, But I'm just saying i'd probably skydiving
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and fricking submarine or bungee jumping.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: See I'm opposite. Okay, I'm definitely opposite. But now our
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: subject to this podcast. She was certainly fine with getting
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: on board a submarine.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm very interested in this one.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting and when I learned about
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: it immediately, I was like, all right, I'm covering it.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: So Kim Wall wasn't the kind of journalist who stayed
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: in one place for long. By the time she was
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: thirty years old, she had already built a career that
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: took her across multiple continents. She was covering stories that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: didn't always make headlines, but they carried weight in a
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: lot of other ways. She was drawn to what she
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: described as the undercurrents of rebellion, you know, situations where culture, politics,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: and everyday life intersected in ways that honestly are just
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: kind of overlooked now. Her reporting reflected that focus that
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: she had. She had worked in postwar Sri Lanka. She'd
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: written about tourism in Haiti after the earthquake, explored underground
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: tech culture in Cuba, and reported on the long term
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: effects of nuclear testing in the Marshall Islands. Her work
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: appeared in major publications including New York Times, The Guardian, Vice,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: and The Atlantic. And the way she approached these stories
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: while they always stayed consistent, she spent time with people.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: She asked questions that went deeper than surface level narratives,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: and she tried to understand systems rather than just events.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Now that approach that she had started very early for her.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: She grew up in southern Sweden in a household where
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: journalism was part of everyday life. See both of her
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: parents were journalists and the home was filled with newspapers, conversations,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: and constant discussion about what was happening in the world.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: From a young age, she showed the same kind of
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: curiosity that would later define her work. She paid attention,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: she asked questions, and had a tendency to follow ideas
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: further than most people ever would. Now as she got older,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: that turned into something much more focused. She studied international
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: relations at the London School of Economics, then went to
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the Columbia University of New York, where she completed graduate
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: degrees in journalism and international affairs. After that, she continued moving,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: working in different countries, taking on assignments that required her
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: to adapt quickly and operate independently. By the summer of
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, she was living in Copenhagen, Denmark with her
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: boyfriend Ole. Now Together, they had built a life there,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't meant to be permanent. In fact, the
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: two of them were preparing to move to Beijing within days,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: planning to continue their work and start something new. But
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: before she left, she had an interview she scheduled for
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: August tenth, which wasn't unusual for her. It wasn't a
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: high profile assignment or anything like that. It was not
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: something that really stood out as particularly risky either. It
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: was simply just another story, one that fit her pattern
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: of finding interesting people doing unusual things and taking time
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to try and understand them from her perspective. It was
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: going to be a short trip. It was close to
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: home with someone who was already relatively known. Now that
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: man was Peter Madson. Now, Peter was a very interesting character,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to say the least. He had spent years building a
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: reputation around projects that sat outside the unusual boundaries of engineering.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: He wasn't formally trained in the traditional sense, but he
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: had managed to position himself as a very serious figure
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: in Denmark's amateur aerospace and engineering scene. He even co
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: founded Copenhagen's Suborbitals, which is a group focused on building rockets,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: and he became known for taking on large scale projects
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that most individuals would never attempt on their own. In fact,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I watched the documentary on this case, and he was
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: often referred to as like kind of like an Denmark's
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk is how many people described him.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Oh really so honestly, spending any time or doing anything
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: like an interview on him, would you would not think
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: it would be risky whatsoever.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: No, he's a very public figure. Okay, now I know
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk doesn't exactly have the best reputation these days,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: but to get the idea of, you know, an innovator
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: and a scale of a well known name. Now, the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: most visible of these projects that he had made was
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: the UC three Nautilus. It was his third build of
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: a privately built submarine. It was crowdfunded in fact, and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it had drawn attention from both the public and the
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: media alike. By twenty seventeen, he'd become something of a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: local celebrity. He gave talks, participated in interviews, and was
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: often described as unconventional but very driven, someone who pushed
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: ahead with ideas regardless of whether they fit the established systems.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: The kind of profile that he had made him a
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: very appealing subject for journalists, especially those interested in people
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: working on the edges of innovation, and that's how Kim
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: came to learn about him. He was a man building submarines.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: He was building rockets outside of institutional support, and it
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: was the kind of story that she was naturally drawn to.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: It was unusual, self directed, and connected to broader questions
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: about ambition, independence and how people carved out space for themselves.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: I do have to say, Kim seems like she lives
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: an incredible life, like very experienced one hundred percent.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: A very experienced individual is a good way of saying it,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: and I think that's what it was. She lived a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: very thorough life, not only through herself but through her
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: work and the people she talked to, which I honestly
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: hold it a really high regard. I really respect that.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Now she reached out him to arrange an interview, and
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: initially he agreed, but actually setting it up between the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: two of them proved to be a bit difficult. Dates
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: were suggested and then postponed, and communication went quiet for
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: stretches of time too, And as the weeks passed, with
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: her planning to move Beijing getting closer, it started to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: look like the opportunity might not come together. And I'm
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: sure we can all sympathize, you know, trying to make
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: plans with friends and stuff. Things get in the way.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: It's like, well what about Tuesday, But I can't do
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Tuesday at work? Well what about Wednesday? No, not good
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: for me. I got dinner.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Like you know, everyone is so busy exactly.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So trying to set it up was kind of a
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: similar situation. So by early August, she had largely accepted
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: that she might have to just move on and not
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: get the story. But then on the morning of August tenth,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Peter contacted her once again. He asked if she was
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: still interested in doing the interview and suggested that they
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: do it that very day. He had time now instead
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of meeting on land, though, he actually proposed that she
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: come aboard the submarine itself. He said that they can
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: go out in the harbor, they can talk a while
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: on the water, and then you know, go submerge for
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a while, so she can get the experience and then
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: be back on land within a couple hours. Now, it
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: was short notice, but it was also exactly what she
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: was hoping to arrange. He suggested she come down to
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the dock that evening and join him on the submarine
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: for that short trip, then could be back by about
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: nine point thirty which would still leave her enough time
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: to return home before dinner. The timing was an ideal,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: but it was workable. Kim spoke to her boyfriend Olay
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: about it. She asked if he was okay with her
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: stepping out for a few hours before dinner, and he was.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Opportunities like this weren't unusual for her, especially when it
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: was something she'd been trying to arrange for a while,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: so she agreed to meet him that evening. At one point,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: while she was getting ready, she admitted that the idea
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of going out in a homemade submarine made her feel
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: a little uneasy, and it wasn't something she had done before.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I get that.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: There was a moment where she actually considered whether it
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: was even worth it now Ole her boyfriend offered to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: go with her, but she decided against it, saying no, no,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it's no big deal. There was still work to do
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: for the evening, and from her perspective, this didn't feel
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: like a situation that required any sort of caution.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I feel like she has a bit of
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: a gut feeling that she's not listening to right now.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It's not so much that it's just it's a weird situation.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: It's different like she's worked in far more unpredictable environments, right,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: like literal war zones and true right, So for her
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it was just like a new situation, any sort of thing.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: The plan was straightforward. She was going to go down
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to the dock, spend a couple hours on the submarine,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: complete the interview, and return for their for their late
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: dinner together. So at around seven pm, Kim arrived at
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: the dock in Copenhagen where the UC three Nautilus was moored.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Now the submarine itself wasn't hidden or difficult to find.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: In fact, it was kind of stood out with something
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: people in the area already recognized. You know, you don't
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: see a submarine parked at a dock very often, right, No,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: you don't. So it was also like the identity around
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: around Peter. He'd built this identity. It was very public,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: very very well spotted. It's that low in the water.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: It was sleek and black, long and narrow, with a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: small upper hatch that protruded upwards. And this is where
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: people could stand above the surface before submerging. So you're
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: in this little spot. You can close the hatch and
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: go down in submarine and then it goes under. When
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Kim met him that evening, he was very friendly. There
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't anything unusual about their interaction, and the two of
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: them were both very excited. The interview, she said that
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: she was trying to set up for months was finally
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: happening at that very last minute, and for Peter he
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: got to show off his homemade submarine. Soon she found
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: herself stepping onto the vessel, and not long after that
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the Nautilus began moving away from the dock. Now, this
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: vessel was seen by people on passing boats as it
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: departed into the ocean waters. One recording actually even shows them.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: That evening shows both Kim and Peter above the surface,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: standing in the open section near the hatch. Kim appears
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: calm looking out across the water, and it looks exactly
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: exactly what you picture in your mind. The small submarine
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: off in the distance, two people poking out and they
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: go down inside, and that's where she was going to
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: be beginning the interview. The submarine then moved further out
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: into the harbor and it gradually disappeared from view at
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: around eight thirty pm. Kim sent a message from the
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: submarine by that point, she'd been on board for roughly
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: an hour and a half, the interview was underway, and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: from everything in the message, the situation just appeared normal.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: There was no urgency in her wording, no indication that
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: anything had gone wrong. She had wrote the message to
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend Olay, and it said quote still alive as
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: a light, almost playful line to.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Her boyfriend, oh man, oh gosh.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And then she joked that there was cookies and coffee
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: on board, and then she added that they were about
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: to go down, referencing the submarine going and submerging in
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the water. Before ending the message, she told Olay that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: she loved him. After that, there was no further communication.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: There were no follow up messages, no calls, and no
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: indication that the submarine had resurfaced or returned to the dock.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Now it's important to clarify once a vessel goes underwater,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: it would lose signal entirely, and so delays weren't necessarily
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: unusual for a situation like this. Kim was expected back
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: at around nine thirty PM, and at first there was
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: no immediate reason to ascern assume that anything was wrong.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: When she didn't show up on time at home. Sure,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: interviews can run longer than normal, especially when they're unfolding
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: in an unusual setting like a submarine, for example. There
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: were also practical limitations once submerged. They would be no
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: signal and the lack of communication. It didn't stand out
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: right away to Olay, but by around ten thirty he
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: started to feel a bit uneasy. He tried reaching out
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: to her, expecting the submarine might have at least surface
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: by then, but there was still no response. The dinner
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: they had planned was waiting and hadn't returned any sort
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: of message or update of any kind. As more time passed,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the silence began to carry much more of a weight.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Then by midnight, the delay was no longer something that
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: could be dismissed as you know, something that was just
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: a scheduling issue, And the longer it went on, the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: fewer reasonable explanations there were. Oleay continued to contact her,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: or at least try, but nothing went through. By around
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: one forty five pm, after several hours without any contact,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: no sign of the submarine returning nothing, Olay decided to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: call the police and report her missing, and once that
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: report came in, the response moved.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Quickly, so she was supposed to be home about nine thirty, correct,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: and at this point it's one forty five correct. You
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: would be losing your frickin' shit at this point. That
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: is probably terrifying.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Yep. And the fact that it's like, well, there's not
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: even a response that you know, she's at surface level. Yeah,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: so okay, maybe the submarine gets to the surface and
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: then you got to you know what more at the dock,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and then you got to get home, so maybe an
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: extra half an hour after it even surfaces. So you're
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: sitting here thinking, one forty.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Five still no response, Oh my god.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Which means she's going to be home around what like
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: close to two thirty.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is way too long. Like I feel like
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: in this kind of scenario, tops two hours and then
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I would just be frickin' beside myself.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good actual timeframe. I agree with that. Now,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the fact that Kim hadn't simply just failed to return home,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: but instead she had actually last been seen boarding a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: homemade submarine with Peter that was now unaccounted for, well,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: this all changed the scale of the response. From the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: very start, the Danish police began coordinating with the Coastguard
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and the Navy, and a search effort was launched across
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the waters surrounding Copenhagen. Patrol boats moved into the harbor
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: and went out along the expected route that the submarine
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: was supposed to have taken, or at least thought to
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: have taken. Helicopters were sent up to scan from above,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: covering a wider area and looking for any sign of
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the vessel breaking the surface. Attempts were made to establish
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: contact with Peter over the marine radio, but there was
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: just no response.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: They're taking this very seriously right off the bat, which
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: is so good.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: They are they are. I mean, you have a missing persons,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: but you also now technically have two missing persons and
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: a potentially failed vessel missing submarine. Yeah, so this is massive.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: It's honestly a catastrophic scale, even if you don't go
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: along the side of murder, because this has environmental issues
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: going along with it. With a vessel capsized or sunk,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: it could potentially be debris in the waters which could
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: capsize another vessel. So there's a lot of things that
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: can go wrong in this situation like this. Now, as
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the night went on, the search expanded sonar equipment was
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: used in an effort to try and locate the submarine
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: below the water, while Cruz checked surrounding sh shorelines in
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: case something had been washed up or come up unexpectedly.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: And the longer the search went on without finding anything,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the more concerning the situation became. By the morning of
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: August eleventh, after hours of searching with no contact, the
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: UC three Nautilus was finally located. The submarine had surfaced
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: in the waters just south of Copenhagen. Boats in the
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: area moved toward it after a distress signal was reported,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and when the boats reached within eyesight of the vessel,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: they could see Peter. He was already outside, standing on
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: top in the hatch, waving his arms. He was calling
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: for help before he dove in the water and was
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: soon rescued by one of the nearby boats. Kim, though
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: she was nowhere to be seen. It was just Peter.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: There was no explanation for her absence either, and before
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: any detailed questions could be answered, the situation shifted once again,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: as the submarine that Peter had just abandoned did not
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: remain floating. It began taking on water and slowly sank
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: beneath the surface. Witnesses later described how it didn't drop
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: suddenly or break apart. It slowly settled downward in almost
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: a controlled way, disappearing below the waterline until it was
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: completely gone. By the time the authorities arrived, the Nautilus
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: was no longer visible. Peter was brought back to the shore,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: where police were already waiting for him. When he was there,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: they asked where Kim was, and he gave a very
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: direct answer. He said that nothing had happened to her.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: He said that he had dropped her off safely on
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: land earlier the evening, before before any problems with the
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: submarine even began. Now, at that moment, there was no
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: immediate evidence to contradict anything he said, but the situation
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: already carried a problem, one that couldn't be ignored, and
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: that was the fact that Kim was still missing. Within
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: minutes of stepping ashore, Peter was placed under arrest and
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: taken in for questioning.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Oh really, because see, just as someone like listening to
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: this or hearing this, I wouldn't think that that story
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't not make sense.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot wrong with this because Kim is missing,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: right right, No one can get a hold of her.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: If she was dropped off on shore safely last night,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: where is she? He is the last one who's seen
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: her live. I guess who allegedly dropped her off.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: What happens if something happened to her on her way home,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: you know, from him dropping her off or something.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: It's very potential. But there's things about it that don't
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: quite add up. Why hasn't she texted Oley at all?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Why has no one said anything. He also didn't really
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: say exactly where he dropped her off right away.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Then there's a few other suspicious things that happened. The
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: way the submarines sank, it didn't sink in what many
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: professional opinions were in a dramatic sense of an accident
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: or a failure. It almost looked like it was going
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: in a die in a very controlled way, almost like
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: it was done on.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Purpose, Like he was sinking it on purpose.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, and this is coming from professionals who watched it
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: go down, and immediately as they're seeing it go down,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: say they're saying, this isn't right. He could have stopped that.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Something's wrong.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, So it didn't need to It wasn't going down
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: like it wouldn't have sunk if he didn't do something.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: That's the suspicion. Okay, not only that. Now, this again speculation.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there was a sample taken from
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: this or what. But there is camera footage of him
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: arriving on shore. People are interviewing, asking questions, and he's
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: being taken away by police and all this sort of stuff.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: So if you watch that footage and look at some
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: of the photos that were taken when he came ashore,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: there's something that appears to be a smudge on the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: end of his nose and it appears to be blood.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, well right there, that would do it, yes,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: without anything else. Just the fact that he is some
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: potential blood on the tip of his nose is not okay.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot that's not adding up. So the
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: fact he was taken into custody is not just a
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: matter of oh, well, your last person who's seen her.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of question marks already in the air.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: It makes sense.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now. During questioning, Peter said that problems with the
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: submarine happened after he had dropped Kim off on shore
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the night before. He described a technical failure that had
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: caused the vessel to take on water. There had been
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: no emergency involving Kim, no accident, and no reason to
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: believe that anything had happened to her while she was
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: on board. It was a straightforward story, and if it
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: were true, then Kim was in fact somewhere in Copenhagen
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: and the situation would shift away from the submarine entirely
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: when she was found. But even in those first interviews,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: there were details that still didn't line up cleanly. When
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: he spoke about the night, he focused heavily on the submarine,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: on the mechanics of what went wrong, the loss of
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the vessel, the sequence of events that led to its
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: scene thinking, and when it came to Kim, his answers
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: were noticeably very less so specific. It didn't provide a
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: clear location even where he dropped her off, as I mentioned,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and there was no way for police to immediately confirm
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that part of the account.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, devil's advocate here, though, if he's the man that
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: built this vessel, I could understand him kind of being
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: fixated on it a little bit more because of the
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: amount of time he's spent on building that and now
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: it's gone and that would mean a lot to him.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: For sure, for sure, but it's really hard to portray
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: how he was acting and reporting this. There's interviews of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: people saying how they knew him very closely, how he spoke,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: how he acted about things like this, and he was
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: almost a very over the top poetic individual. But it
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: seemed like how he was speaking in these terms was
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: very detailed and matter of fact, not poetic, not being
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: like the submarine went down and it's the way life is,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm excited for moving on in the ventures to
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: take me forth. He's not speaking like that like he
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: normally does. It's more of there was a failure and
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the vessel took on water. I couldn't control it and
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: it went down, almost like he's rehearsed specific points to
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: hit in a story that very robotic boom boom, okay.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Like he's gone through a checklist.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Almost per se. Yeah, and then when it comes to Kim,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: he's not supposed to have a checklist, so there's nothing
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: to say. So it's very almost rehearsed, very prepared, robotic.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I guess now at that point there was no direct
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: evidence to prove that he was lying, but there was
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: also nothing to support his version of events either, So
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: it was kind of this neutral zone of which it's true. Now,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: even before any physical evidence was recovered, parts of the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: situation were already starting to raise a lot of concern.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: People with experience around submarines began pointing out that what
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: had happened to the UC three Nautilus didn't make sense
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: as an accident, something I already discussed. A vessel like
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: this doesn't typically just take on water and sink without warning,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: especially not in calm conditions over a short timeframe. The
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: way it had gone down slowly, with a hatch left open,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: it suggested something else entirely. Submarines are in fact designed
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: to keep water out. Now, there were also questions about
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Peter's calm and focused behavior once he was rescued. Now,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: as police began trying to verify Peter's account, the first
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: real cracks appeared almost immediately. The first thing his claim
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: bolt where he had dropped Kim off safely on land.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: If that were true, there should be some record of it.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: The harbor area where he soon said he dropped her off,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: it wasn't isolated. There were CCTV cameras everywhere. There were
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: also boats and people moving through the area regularly. It
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't the kind of place that someone could simply appear
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: with a submarine and disappear without being seen. Investigator started
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: pulling that CCTV footage from locations along the waterfront, focusing
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: on that time window when Peter said he had returned
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Kim to the shore, but there was nothing. No footage
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: showed her disembarking, no sightings from witnesses, nothing showed that
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: she had ever left the submarine after boarding it that evening,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: no sightings of the submarine even in the area that
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: he claimed either. At the same time, there were no
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: signs of her anywhere. She hadn't contacted anyone, she hadn't
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: returned home. Her belongings were even still unaccounted for, and
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: within a short period, the original explanation that she'd been
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: dropped off safely clearly no longer had any support in
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the last confirmed place that Kim Wall had been seen
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: while was still on the UC three Nautilus. Soon efforts
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: shifted towards recovering the submarine and examining what had happened
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: on board. The submarine was soon located on the seabed
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and eventually brought back up to the surface after securing
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: the heavy equipment able to do the job. Once it
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: was accessible, though, investigators began a detailed inspection of the interior.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: One of the first conclusions was that there was no
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: clear mechanical failure that would have caused it to sink
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: on its own. The systems didn't show any sort of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: signs of a sudden breakdown at all. Instead, the way
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the vessel had taken on water pointed towards something being
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: done intentionally, like someone left the water flow, let the
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: water just flow into the vessel, or something now inside.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: They also began to find some physical evidence too. They
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: found traces of blood aboard. They also found personal items
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: that belonged to Kim that were in fact still there,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: including clothing that had not been removed from the submarine
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: before it went under.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, like if he had dropped her off, she
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: would be taking those with her exactly.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: At this instance, the focus of the investigation had shifted fully.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: The question was no longer where Kim had gone after
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: leaving the submarine, but now it is what had happened
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: to her while she was still on it. The investigators
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: presented their new findings to Peter, you know, the blood,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: her clothes, the CCTV footage that showed she did not
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: get dropped off where he said she did. And while
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: at that point his account of what had happened changed,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Peter admitted there to investigators that she had in fact
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: died on board the submarine and he had lied about
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: dropping her off. According to him, there was an accident
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: on board the vessel. He said, the heavy hatch on
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: the submarine was open at one point while they were
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: up on the surface, and it had fallen, slamming shut
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: while she stood in the way, and it struck her
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: in the head, killing her unintentionally. Now, instead of contacting
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: authorities or trying to bring her back ashore, he told
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: investigators that he chose to dispose of her body at sea,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: described placing her in the water himself, framing it as
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: something that he did in a state of shock rather
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: than a calculated decision, and at one point he characterized
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: it as some kind of burial, saying that he put
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: her in the sea, you know, as almost like a
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: form of respect sort of situation. According to this version
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: of events, everything that followed her death, moving the body,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: you know, removing it from the submarine and leaving it
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: in the water. It was all the result of panic
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and an inability to deal with what had happened, but
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: all in all, for the first time, Peter was placing
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: her death inside the submarine, and he acknowledged that something
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: had happened while they were alone together, but the explanation
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: was still framed in a way that was something outside
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: of his control, a sudden, unplanned accident. It was an
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: unlikely story, but certainly not impossible, and they had no
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: way to prove it otherwise either.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I feel though, if it's if that's what actually happen,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: why would you go about hiding.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: It because he said he panicked, which.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I guess, but I feel like maybe you would serve
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: some time. I don't know. But also if it's just
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: an accident, probably not. And then just releasing her body
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: into the sea that as respect or something that's actually
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: like the opposite. It's completely disrespectful when her family is
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: not now going to be able to lay her to rest.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Now, I'm not saying he said he did it in respect,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: though I want to clarify that he almost like made
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: it seem like it was a.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Respectful, a respectful way of letting her bee free exactly.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: But he framed it in that sort of sense, but
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: he didn't say it was a respectful thing.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, geez, I don't know. Just listening to this,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I'm like, how does this buddy think that he was
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: going to get away with this shit?
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Well, it gets even worse, okay, because on August twenty first,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: eleven days after kim Wall disappeared, the case changed once again.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: A cyclist was riding along the shoreline through Copenhagen and
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: came across something sitting in the water near the edge
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: of a beach. Authorities were soon called to examine what
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: was found on the shoreline, and they confirmed that what
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: was found was a human torso. It had been cut apart.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: There were no arms, there were no legs, and there
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: was no head attached. It had also been deliberately weighed down.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Metal objects had been attached to it in a way
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: that suggested it had been placed in the water with
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the intention of keeping it submerged. But despite that, though
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: it had resurfaced still shortly after the discovery, investigators were
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: able to identify the remains as belonging to Kim Wall
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: through DNA analysis.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: He has some explaining to do because that doesn't make
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: any sense I was thinking it was. I was like, oh,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: my goodness, thankfully her body has come to shore. But
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: you would not expect it to come ashore that way.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Definitely, not not dismembered, not weighed down.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Now, with this discovery, the investigation focused on coordinating their
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: search of the surrounding waters for the rest of Kim's remains.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Divers were sent out repeatedly to comb through the areas
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: where currents were likely to carry anything released into the sea.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: The work was slow and very methodical. Visibility underwater was
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: extremely limited, and the search area was vast. Teams had
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: a map of currents and estimated drift patterns, and they
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: returned to the same locations multiple times. A dismembered body
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: didn't line up with Peter's story at all either. He could, however,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: possibly claim something like maybe animals did it, or a
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: boat propeller or getting tangled and fishing equipment. Who knows,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Who knows what sort of story he could come up
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: with to try and explain this away. So police knew
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: what they had to do was focus on proving his
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: claim of Kim being hit in the head, and they
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: needed to prove it wrong. So if this was true,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: if that hatch on the submarine had contacted her head
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: and killed her, she would have suffered blunt force trauma
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: to the head and likely a massive skull fracture. So
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: if they find the rest of her remains, they could
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: see if there was such trauma to her head. Well,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: if there wasn't, it would prove he was lying. So
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: over the following weeks they searched diligently through the waters. Then,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: with the help of experts in the water currents, they
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: focused on one specific area where he believed it would
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: likely carry her remains. They are under the water in
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the murky depths. One diver came across something. It was
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: a bag, then there was another. Inside each bag were
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Kim's remains, her head, arms, and legs. They were all
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: found separate, placed in bags, and weighed down in the
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: same way that the torso was. Each discovery confirmed that
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: the body had not come apart naturally, it had been
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: intentionally dismembered and distributed through the water in ways that
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: suggested planning. They were in Begs Hole.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: That is just such an eerie picture to go about
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: finding that, and then also it's right away. It's like
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: we got you.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Along with the remains, investigators also recovered items connected to
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: the crime, including tools consistent with cutting, such as a
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: saw and knives. The pattern was consistent across everything that
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: was found. The body parts had been treated the same way,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: prepared and weighed down the same way before thrown into
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the sea, and there was no indication of panic or
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: improvisation in how they had been handled. Now in forensic
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: examinations were completed on the rest of Kim's remains, there
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: was no evidence of the kind of injury Peter had
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: claimed occurred, no skull fractures, and no blunt force trauma
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: that matched what he had described, which meant he was
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: clearly lying. If we it wasn't obvious enough already, But
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the one fact he did provide was proved wrong.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: This guy, what on earth is he doing? Well?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: If that wasn't enough, After they confronted him with this information,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: he changed his story again.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Oh frick I don't know. I don't even understand how
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: anyone could take this man remotely seriously, Like he's obviously.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Nuts, he's bonkers.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: He cut up some innocent woman's body, and his frickin' submarine. Yeah, okay,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: this is this is just mine.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: This is literally a horror movie, is what this is?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Pretty much? Actually, this could totally be turned into that. Yeah,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: it is that.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Now. Peter claimed that Kim had died now from carbon
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: monoxide poisoning while he was on deck, suggesting that she
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: had been overcome by fumes inside the submarine during another
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: mechanical failure while she was below and he was above.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: But that explanation didn't hold up either. There was no
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: toxic evidence found in her body that would indicate she
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: had been exposed to lethal levels of carbon monoxide either.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Each version Peter gave conveniently place the cause of death
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: outside of his control, and each one presented the situation
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: as an accident, and each one directly contradicted the physical evidence. Now,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: there was still more that they found regarding the condition
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: of her remains, too, though that raised even further questions.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: The dismembermentt you know, it had been done in a
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: way that was not urgent or with any sort of panic.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Of course, there was the weights, the separation of body parts,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: and the way it had been disposed, right, we understand that,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: But the remains also showed multiple other injuries that could
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: not be explained by any accounts Peter had given. For example,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: there were several puncture wounds consistent with repeated stabbing, isolated
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: to the lower torso and vaginal area on Kim's remains.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this guy is batshit crazy.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Along with this, there were also indications that Kim had
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: been restrained. Holy frig these injuries were not random, just
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: like the dismemberment was not random, and they couldn't be
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: explained by anything Peter attempted to come up with. Then,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: to top it all off, DNA evidence connected everything back
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: to the submarine. As I mentioned, blood was found inside
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: the UC three Nautilus submarine, and the DNA confirmed that
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: it was in fact Kim's blood. It was clear that
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: whatever happened to her had taken place within that confined space.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: At the same time, Peter's DNA was found on her
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: remains too, though I was unable to determine through my
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: research exactly if it was blood or seamen or something else,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: but I do know his DNA was found. The traces
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: of Kim's blood were also recovered from inside the submarine,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned, but also on his clothes. Further, reinforcing
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: that the vessel had been the scene of the crime.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: To put it in simple terms, there was no longer
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: any question about where this had happened or what had happened.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: It was only a matter of how it had happened.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Peter had attacked and killed Kim on the vessel, period,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: full stop. She would have been in an isolated and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: confined space under the surface of the ocean, alone with
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: a person who attacked and killed her, with no hope
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: of escape.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Oh man, well if you didn't if you wanted to
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: go on a submarine before, do you want to now?
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Well, not this one, that's for sure.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Scary scary stuff like this, poor girl. Yeah, I cannot
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: even imagine what would have like. That's just horrifying.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Even imagine this. So she can't run anywhere, right, she can't.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: There's nowhere for her to go. She's in a confined
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: space below the ocean like that's it, very.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Much so out of her comfort zone. She has no
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: weapons or nothing.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: So her only hope of survival is to overpower him.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Now if she overpowers him, now what oh, Now, she
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: can't drive this thing, She can't get back to the surface.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't even go there. So she's just like,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: what between a rock and a hard place? Really?
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So if she does overpower him, it's not like
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: he's going to let her back to the surface. Okay,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I guess we're just down here then you know what,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not letting you go like sorry, Wow, so she
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: is fucked.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is just terrible.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: As investigators continued their investigation and expanded beyond the physical
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: evidence on hand, a second layer of the case began
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: to take shape, one that focused on what had been
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: happening before Kim ever stepped onto the submarine at all.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: When they examined Peter's digital activity, they found material that
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: add context to the violence already established through the forensics.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: They found several files of videos and photos, all this
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: sort of stuff on his computer depicting women being subject
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: to torture and killings. No many of these were pornographic
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: snuff films, which is a genre of pornography where women
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: are abused and killed in a sexual context.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, So this guy is a nasty asshole.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah he is. Alongside that, investigators also uncovered messages and
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: communications in which he had described violence scenarios in detail,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: including ideas about him wanting to harm someone on board
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: the submarine. He had Bill.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Solely frick this. This story is mind.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Blowing, Yeah it is. And I have no idea how
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: this fucking douche Canoe thought he was going to get
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: away with this.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, like, is he's stupid because there really is
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: no way that he I mean, okay, like some of
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: his stories, I guess I could kind of understand, you
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: know that the hitting the head thing, but then it
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense that you wouldn't, you know, bring your
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: summarine in and get help and just release her body instead.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: But then the fact that I don't know, did he
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: not think that anyone.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Seem like discombobulary right now, because it's just all flashing
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: in my head, like the fact that he cuts up
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: her body and then disposes of it that way and
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: he thinks that's just going to stay in the freaking
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Ouchian forever.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he did a shitty job. For the fact
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: that the torso came to shore.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: So I don't know. This guy is just he's disgusting,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: he's stupid, and.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: He's just a prick, and he's just a prick.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Now, investigators also uncovered messages. I already said that part
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: my apologies. So these messages, they weren't vague references, you know,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: saying that he wants to do these things, these violent
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: scenarios and everything. They outlined very specific methods and were
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: tied directly to the environment that he had controlled. And
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: now it also became clear that Kim had not been
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the only person Peter had tried to bring on the
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: submarine who In the days leading up to August tenth,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: he had contacted multiple women inviting them to join him
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: on the submarine under similar circumstances. Now, each time the
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: condition was the same. He wanted them to come alone
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: and enjoy the ride sort of thing. But for various reasons,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: none of those meetings happened. Kim, though, was ultimately the
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: one who agreed. Investigators also looked at what had been
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: brought onto the submarine that night. There were tools consistent
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: with cutting saws, knives, things that had been present. These
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: were not items that you just find in a submarine.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: They were items taken onto the vessel and were later
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: recovered in the water. In fact, there are videos of
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Peter because he's, you know what, like an engineer type,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: and he's online, he does interviews, all this sort of thing.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: There's videos of the saw they recovered hanging in the
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: background his shop, the very same saw they recovered from
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the bottom of the ocean. These formed a pattern that
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: went beyond simple opportunity. It was something that had been
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: thought about in advance, and the case against Peter, honestly
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: at this point is staggering. It also caught a lot
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: of people off guard that Peter was capable of something
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: like this, and when words spread, they were taken aback.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: He had spent years presenting himself as a very smart, driven,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: unconventional engineer, for sure, But he had spent years presenting
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: himself as a smart, driven, unconventional engineer and known for
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: taking on projects outside traditional systems, you know, building rockets
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: or submarines with limited resources, and surrounding himself with people
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: who were drawn to that kind of ambition that he shared.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: He spoke confidently about his work, positioned himself as someone
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: operating beyond normal limits. But the closer investigators and witnesses looked,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the more that image began to shift. People who had
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: interacted with him began to describe a pattern of control
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: he preferred to set. The terms of every situation where
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: meetings took place, who was present, how conversations unfolded, and
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: when those conditions were met. He could come across as
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: engaging and focused, but when they weren't, his behavior could
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: change extremely quickly. Several women who had been in contact
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: with him also described similar experiences. He would invite them
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: into environments that he controlled, often isolated settings like the
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: submarine or his workshop. Now, the interactions didn't always escalate,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: but there was a consistent pattern in how he structured
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: those encounters now By the time the investigation in this case,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: there were also indications that his behavior had been shifting
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: in the period leading up to the events. In August
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen, some people noted increasing instability, along with
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: a stronger focus on themes in both his private communications
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: and digital activity. During legal evaluations, he was described as
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: having narcissistic and psychopathic traits. He was not found to
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: be delusional or detached from reality, but instead he was
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: considered fully aware of his actions and capable of understanding
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: the consequences behind them, and that distinction was important. It
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: meant that what had happened inside the submarine could not
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: be explained as a loss of control in the moment now. Eventually,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: the case went to trial in March of twenty eighteen
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: in Copenhagen, and all the findings in the investigation were
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: presented in full peace by peace. Over the course of
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: several weeks, more than forty witnesses were called. Investigators outlined
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: the submarine, how it had been recovered and examined, and
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: explaining why the sinking could not be attributed to mechanical failure.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Forensic experts detailed the injuries found on Kim's body and
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: explained why they were were inconsistent with any of the
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: explanations Peter had. Divers and search teams described the recovery
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: of the remains and the tools that had been weighing
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: them down and discarded in the water. Digital evidence had
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: also been presented, including the material found on his computer
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: and the communications that outlined violent scenarios connected to the submarine.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: And then Peter himself chose to testify. During his time
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: on the stand, he repeated the versions of events he
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: had settled on, that Kim had died accidentally while on
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: board and that everything that followed had been the result
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: of panic. He spoke in detail, often focusing on technical
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: explanations and attempting to account for sequences of events in
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: ways that distance himself from intent. But the explanations continued
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: to conflict with the evidence. Where he described a single
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: accidental incident, a forensic finding showed multiple injuries and proved otherwise.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Where he described panic, the disposal the body and tools
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: suggested a series of controlled actions. Each time his account
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: was compared to what had been recovered, and it failed
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: to align. Throughout the proceedings, he remained composed, at times detached,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: and showed little visible reaction to the details being presented.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: The tone of his testimony did not change even as
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: the evidence against him became more direct. But no matter
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: what he tried to say, it was obvious that Kim
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: boarded the UC three Nautilus on the evening of August tenth,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: and remained on the submarine as it left the harbor.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: There was no point after that where she was ever
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: seen leaving the vessel, and no evidence that it returned
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: ashore before the events that followed. At some stage after
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: her final message was sent to her boyfriend Olay, the
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: situation inside the submarine changed. Then at some point in time,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: while on board, she sustained multiple injuries that were not
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: consistent with a single accidental event, occurred over time within
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: a confined space where no one else was present, only
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: her and Peter. Then, at some point after her death,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: her body was dismembered, weighed down, and discarded. This reconstruction
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: did not rely on speculation. It was reconstructed directly from
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: the evidence that had been recovered. Kim entered that submarine alive,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: and everything that happened to her occurred inside, and she
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: did not leave it alive. On April twenty fifth, twenty eighteen,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: the court delivered its verdict after reviewing the full body
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: of evidence, the forensic findings, the digital records, and the
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: recovery of Kim's remains, and the multiple conflicting accounts given
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: by Peter. The judges rejected the explanation that her death
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: had been accidental, and Peter Madson was found guilty of murder,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: aggravated sexual assault, and desecration of a corpse. The court
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: determed that the attack had been pre planned and carried
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: out with intent, not the result of a sudden or
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: uncontrolled event. As a result, he was sentenced to life
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: in prison.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, there is no world where he would have
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: gotten away with this.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: No, definitely not. And I do want to say this
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: so too, before we get off topic, it's important to
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: note that in Denmark, a life sentence does A life
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: sentence doesn't always mean like a fixed number of years,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: but it does represent the most severe punishment available and
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: can result in incarceration for the remainder of a person's life.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: But there's no specifics around what life really means.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I mean, let's just hope that he's in
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: there for the rest of his life.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, Peter of course appealed the verdict, arguing that
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: the sentence was disproportionate and the circumstances did not support
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: the conviction for premeditated murder, but that appeal was denied. Now,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: for years after the conviction, Peter Can continued to maintain
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: that Kim's death was not intentional, even after the evidence
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: that had been presented in court. Even after the verdict
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: and sentencing, he still held that version of events that
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: framed what had happened was an accident, saying he didn't
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: do it on purpose.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: He's obviously freaking delusional.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: He is. The details shifted over time in the story
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: that he was telling though, like he like, well this
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: or well that, but basically what he's saying he didn't
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: mean to kill her all in all.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, he is good at storytelling, I'll give him that,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: but I can't see the escalation of this. Her body
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: now being in like different garbage bags at the bottom
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: of the sea and stuff. But yeah, he didn't mean
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: to do it. I don't, just know.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I disagree. As a storyteller myself, I disagree and say
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: he's a terrible storyteller. Okay, I gotta say that.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I can understand. I guess I screwed up,
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: like I'm not going to get away with this, like
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: going to hide it, and you kind of your body
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: just maybe goes through these emotions, but not the motions
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: of dismembering a body. I don't think. I don't know.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's there's what two different avenues you can play.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: One it was an accident I panicked, or two I
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: blocked out. They literally proved he could not call it
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: I blocked out scenario, So he's literally he's only going
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: with the other option. Yeah that, Oh, it was an accident,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: which is one of the most obvious and shitty cover ups.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Ever, Yeah, and it's so interesting too to just I
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: don't know. At one point, just like admit it, admit
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: that you're a frickin monster and you did this well.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, while in prison, Peter took part in
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: a documentary project in which a journalist recorded hours of
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: conversation with him, and during one of those interviews, he
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: was asked directly whether he killed Kim. He said yes, okay.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: He stated that he was responsible for her death and
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that he had committed the crime, and this marked
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: the very first time he admitted that what happened inside
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: the submarine that day was in fact intentional. So he
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: did come out and admit it eventually. Now he didn't
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: have anything to gain. He didn't have anything to lose
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: at that point either.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: After the trial and sentencing, Peter was placed in a
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: high security prison to serve his life sentence. So I
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: guess that, combined with a bit of time to sit
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: on it, made him feel like you could finally speak
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: the truth.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Well, honestly, at that point, I do, I feel like
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: you would have maybe something to gain, because then you
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: can be like admitting your actions and then show remorse
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: and continue and like start your rehabilitation. And that may
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: look good.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: For you potentially, but there's something coming up here that
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: will directly disagree with that statement.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Now, whether he spoke about the truth or not, either way,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: the truth was already out there. People already knew that
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: he had killed her. He just finally admitted it, both legally,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: you know, and in the emittance. And now his time passed,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: things surrounding the story just kind of started to settle.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: And then in October of twenty twenty, that very same
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: year when he admitted it, Peter made another move. He
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: escaped from prison.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, was not expecting.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: That, which directly contradicts him trying to be a model prisoner.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: And Hooks sure does.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Now, while behind bars, Peter managed to create for himself
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: something that looked like a gun while in prison. Now
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: it wasn't, but it was convincing enough that he was
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: able to threaten officers inside the prison and get them
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: to let him out. CCTV footage captured shows Peter fleeing
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: from the prison with officers pursuing behind him, and thankfully,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: he didn't make it.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Very far, oh thank goodness.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: However, it still wasn't over see. He also created a
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: bomb replica that he strapped to his body, again not real.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: So while he was held at gunpoint with literal snipers
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: pointing the barrel at him, he was sitting on a
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: patch of grass, surrounded, nowhere to go, and police worked
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: with the situation and eventually figured out that it was
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: not real. They were able to put him in cuffs
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: and back behind bars. Now, after everything that had happened,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: for Kim's family and those who knew her as well,
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: the focus did not stay on the way that her
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: life had ended. Instead, it shifted back to the work
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: she had spent years building. Kim had made a career
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: out of telling other people's stories, often people who didn't
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: have a PlantForm or whose experiences were overlooked, and that
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: approach became the foundation for how her story would be
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: carried forward. The goal wasn't to define her by what
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: had happened to her on the submarine on August tenth,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, but instead it keeps the focus on who
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: she had been and what she had contributed to Her
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: family established the Kim Wall Memorial Fund, which as an
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: initiative design to support female journalists working on projects that
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: reflect the kind of reporting that she had pursued. The
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Fund provides grants for independent reporting around the world, continuing
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: the same type of work that had defined her career,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: stories rooted in curiosity, persistence, and willingness to go further
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: than surface level narratives. In the years following her death,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: her work has continued to be read, shared, and translated
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: all across the globe. The stories she has already written
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: remain part of public record, and new attention has been
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: brought to the subjects that she has already covered. But
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: for those closest to her, the focus remains consistent. They
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: choose to speak about her as a journalist, about her
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: as a person, and as someone who has spent her
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: life trying to understand the world and explain it to others.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: What happened to her became part of her story. Yes,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: that's true, but it did not define it. And from
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: one storyteller to another, I want to name Kim Wall
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: the badass of the day today because that's her story,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: the story of Kim Wall.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, what an incredible woman. Definitely this story, Yeah,
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: this is like a bizarre one, it I mean, it's
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: kind of sad too, because you just think like, there's
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: no way that she would have thought something like this
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: would have happened to her in a situation not a chance, right,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: So she just had no way of protecting herself or
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: even knowing I guess you know that she could have
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: potentially been in danger. And that's just really sad.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: There was no foresight in the situation. I mean, she's
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: literally been in war ridden third world countries and for this,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: this was just a night out to go and this
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: is small town reporting to her sort of thing. It's
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: a small story. She should have been safe.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Well, because especially this guy being known too write exactly.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: It just I feel like no red flags other than
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: I guess going on a submarine would have been going off.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: No, not a one, especially considering there's there's already articles
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: out there, there's already news casts and and things going
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: on with interviews with Peter and everything. Why would she
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: think otherwise people have talked to him. What's different She's
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: going to be another one to talk to him, maybe
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: look at a different angle, maybe get a different experience
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: or different quote. Sure, but it's been done. Why would
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: this one be any different? Yeah, as far as safety,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: goes anyways, I'm sure her perspective, her story would have
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: been different, but safety should have been the same.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: But at that time he had just decided to just.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: He was a perverted piece of shit.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Well, and it escalated, right, and he decided this was
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: going to be the time that he let it get
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: go too far.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, act out as fantasy.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Finally, gosh, oh the poor thing.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope that man rots. There is a website
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: you can go as well and read Kim's articles and everything.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Remembering Kim Wall. So if you want to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: go there and check out, you know, some of her writings,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: and it's got tributes and things like awards and all
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: that sort of things on there. I do recommend it.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: It's a great website. I went through a few of
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: her articles. I'm going to go through more to say
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: the list.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean those short like way too short. Her
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: life was way too short. I mean, one silver lining
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: is that she did it seems as though she lived
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: a very beautiful life she did prior to this, right,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: So I mean maybe that that does it gives you
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: a little bit of comfort, I suppose, But still this
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: should not have happened.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: No, it shouldn't have. She lived her life well, but
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: she should have lived far longer.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she had a lot more. They were just about
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: to move. She was so close right to just this
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: not happening. So it's really too bad.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: It is, but thank you for being here. Hopefully you
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: guys get a chance to go check out our website
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: and read some of her work. Like guys, like I said,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: it is good. I could. I wish I could write
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: like she does. I strive to hopefully one day. But yeah,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to drink the rest of this drink in
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: the name for King Kim Wall and I'm just gonna
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: leave it at that. Thank you for being here, and
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: until next time. Until next time, stay wicked bo