Latest / She’s Smart / Catherine Morrissey — Legacy in Motion

Transcript

Catherine Morrissey — Legacy in Motion · She’s Smart

0:02
Hey, everybody. Welcome to She's Smart. I'm your host, Maria Robotham.
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Each week, we sit down with incredible women to talk about life,
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work, and everything in between.
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Today's guest is Katherine Morrissey, the president of White & Warren.
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She is a leader navigating growth, legacy, and change with an uncommon mix of clarity and care.
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Katherine has spent more than a decade helping shape and modernize White and
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Warren, a brand founded by her mother, Susan White-Morrissey,
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while staying deeply rooted to the craftsmanship, values, and attention to detail
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that built its loyal following.
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After beginning her career at Calvin Klein, she joined the family business in
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2011, bringing with her a creative sensibility informed by a background in illustration,
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along with a sharp understanding of how brands scale without losing their soul.
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In this conversation, Catherine shares what it's really like to lead a heritage
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brand through generational transition, how to evolve thoughtfully.
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Listen closely to customers, and make room for modernity without erasing what came before.
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We talk about the recent rebrand, the launch of new categories like clubhouse
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and outerwear, and why she believes luxury should work for real life,
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not just special occasions.
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We also explore Catherine's approach to leadership, one rooted in clarity,
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discipline, and humanity, and what it means to build teams, culture,
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and momentum in a way that's sustainable over time.
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This episode is a thoughtful look at modern leadership, legacy in motion,
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and the quiet confidence it takes to move a brand and yourself forward.
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So get cozy as we connect, learn, and laugh together on She's Smart with today's
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guest, Katherine Morris.
2:12
Good morning. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Good.
2:19
Thank you so much for joining me.
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Thanks for having me. I had to make sure I threw on my scarf today,
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which travels with me everywhere.
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Like literally travel scarf makes full sense.
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It is always in my bag. Every time I fly, it's what I put on.
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And funny story, I was a stylist for 15 years, I had my own company and dressed amazing women.
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And I had one client who only wore white and more in travel scarves. Really?
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Only. She has six of them. Oh, that's incredible. And then we'd put these outfits together.
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One was this gorgeous brown silk dress that she was wearing to an event.
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And I'm like, I think we need the brown scarf. And she's like,
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really? I'm like, yeah, it's got to be a whole moment. So then we bought her the brown scarf.
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But it was great. She keeps the bags and she takes care of them.
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And she was a client for like six years.
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And they all look the same, you know, six years later.
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So it's a real testament to the brand. So your mom, Susan White,
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along with Barbara Warren, founded White & Warren.
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So you grew up in this as a part of your life. But you also built your own career outside of Brand First.
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So what drew you back in? And when did it start to feel like you're calling,
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not just the family business?
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Yeah, so I did not grow up. thinking I was always going to join Whitenmore.
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And this was certainly not dinner table talk. It was definitely not a given.
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And I was always drawn to fashion. That was a priority in my life. I'm a very little girl.
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I was best dressed in high school. So something I took very seriously.
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I'm also an artist and ended up going to school for art and design at Syracuse.
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And unsurprisingly, ended up
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back in in the apparel industry both my parents were in
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the industries my dad was also in the industry and so
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i as i established myself there
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in design and went into merchandising at calvin and then ended up back in design
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i was observing my mom's business more closely kind of from the sidelines and
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realizing that a lot of what i was doing and building this more corporate sensibility.
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I was in a much bigger organization, so there was a lot of structure around me.
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I was realizing that what I was doing there existed at White & Warren, and,
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It could be interesting for me to consider joining the business.
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And I had gotten to a point in my career where I was sort of ready for my next move, potentially.
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So that was going on in my mind. And then my dad passed away.
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So in 2010, this big life thing happened.
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And it was a time where I looked at it for my mother and thought,
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well, now I feel like she kind of needs me.
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So this could be an interesting time for both of us. I'm ready to make a change.
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It would be helpful for her. There was also an opening for a merchandiser at
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White & Warren. So like all of this is happening in the background.
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And my mom had brought on a merchandiser because I had convinced her she needed one.
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And then six months, it didn't work out with this wonderful person for kind
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of personal reasons, right? And nothing to do with the business.
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So I said to her, well, what if I was the merchant? I know I called her. What do you think?
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And she said, okay, let's go to try.
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And what was that first interaction like? Do you remember like walking to the
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building the first day, your mom's the boss?
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How do you remember how that felt?
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Yeah. Comfortable, honestly, because the business was not unfamiliar to me.
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I had been doing little things, working inside the business since high school on some level.
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And I knew the team really, really well because I was in and out of the office a fair amount of time.
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And she will say that the team was excited to have me there.
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The design team was like, yes, we've been saying this for a while,
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Susan. This will be great to have her.
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So it felt really comfortable and exciting to join.
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Yeah, I could only imagine working. I love you, mom.
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But I think we would, I don't know if we'd fare well.
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I think there has to be that a certain relationship where you're able to separate
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like the family from the business.
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And do you find that to be a struggle sometimes? Or is it like you said,
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it felt so normal, kind of second nature to be a part of it?
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For the most part, normal, second nature, feels very natural for both of us.
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Feedback hits hard when it's coming from your mom.
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It's just, you know, it's instantly, it's slightly more personal,
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even when it's not meant to be. It just is.
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So early on, I had to, I basically created a persona for my mom,
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like a professional version of who she was.
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I call her Susan in the office. like there
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is no she becomes like a different person to me and then
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at home she's my mom yeah and you know in the
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off hours she is my mom it took practice to sort of
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do this but it was very helpful over time to really think of her as just a completely
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different person so that i didn't think take things personally because we all
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take things our mothers say personally so i had to be able to separate that
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for sure absolutely so white and warren has such a strong identity right quality It's timeless.
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It's refined. People trust it.
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How do you think of evolving the brand without losing what made people fall
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in love with it in the first place? Yeah.
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Yeah. So generally, I would say we think about evolving as keeping the values
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of the brand the same way and not changing anything about that.
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And it's just the expression of how White and Warren visually the product expression
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evolves, but the values stay the same. and marrying those two,
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even through our most recent rebrand. It was really keeping those values front and center.
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And the customer ultimately following what the customer is telling us she wants.
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We have a very, very lucky and fortunate to have a very loyal following and customer base.
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And it was incredibly important to us through our most recent rebrand that the
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brand stays consistent for her and feels like a refresh and still a surprise
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and delight to her. And she comes along for the journey.
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Yeah. I was reading a Forbes article that you were in. And the number of older
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women, I'm going to say 50 plus, that were your customers.
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Yep. Still are today. Still are. And I remember I worked at this little boutique.
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I'm born and raised in California and went to the Fashion Institute there and
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then worked at a boutique while I was in school.
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I'll never forget it. Our customers, it was like contemporary boutique.
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So we had young people walking in and then older women.
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Our biggest customers were the 50 and over because they had the money.
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They were the ones who were able to, you know, spend it and be a part of it.
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And the younger women always aspired, right, to be able to buy the things and
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be part of it. And they'd save their money and they'd come in and buy stuff.
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So I can imagine with an older demographic, and I say older,
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I'm 47. So I'm almost there.
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I don't think of myself, I guess, that way. But this demographic, you're right.
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You don't want to lose them because they're the ones that will spend it while
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the younger women are trying to...
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Get to that point. So what is that? Where is that balance in between the two?
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I mean, I know all the pieces you've just launched are beautiful.
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Like that anorak, the white one with the navy piping, it's been in my cart. I'm ready.
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People are going crazy for that. I'm excited to hear that. Well,
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you know what I love about it is it's sporty.
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It's classic. You can wear with trousers. You can wear with a skirt.
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Like I'm thinking of all the outfits I can put together with it because it's
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an investment piece, which it rightfully should be.
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I'm looking at all these beautiful pieces and this it seems pretty seamless
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as to where you've where you were and where you're going how has your customer
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responded to it and has there been great feedback like what are they saying
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about this new rebranding that you're doing.
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So we are thrilled that both our longtime loyalists and this next generation
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of women, who are really older millennials, they're my age, that we're looking
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to really bring into the fold,
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are both responding to the rebrand, which was the goal all along.
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I think in that sense, we have done our job. And I said to the team,
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with this rebrand, it was about an evolution, not a revolution.
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That was the point of this. And to acquire, to really capture the attention
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of the older millennial,
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we needed to think about like when you're in stick shift, kind of take the brand
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up a gear slightly and appear, really modernize our deeper storytelling.
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Honestly, the quality, the comfort, everything we've known for stays with the
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brand. Nothing about that changes.
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It's really just telling our story that we never really told before to the direct consumer.
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So it's really about, for us, leveling up our marketing efforts,
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stronger storytelling,
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so that when we are speaking to her through many and many times these ads that
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we're placing through Instagram meta, or she's finding us on social through
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influencers and coming back to the brand,
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she sees us as a brand of today.
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And that's where we needed to just kind of catch up a bit.
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And that's what this rebrand was meant to do, to just modernize the overall look of the brand.
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When did that feeling come in? Do you remember at what point you were like,
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all right, I've been here, I've been working on this.
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It's time. Like, was there a moment where you're like, we need,
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because fashion moves, it's cyclical.
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And I don't even want to call this fashion because this is style.
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This is something you keep, you wear.
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It isn't fast by any means.
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It is supposed to be slow. It is supposed to be something that you gravitate
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towards in the easiest sense of the word, these pieces that you are creating.
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And I think of it not just as like a consumer, but as someone who dressed women
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for 15 years, like I was constantly looking for items that were going to stand the test of time.
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Because the way I dressed people, it was for them to always look their best
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no matter what they were doing.
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They're going to, you know, the grocery store or they're going to an event.
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Like getting dressed has meaning, you know, and we've lost that, I think, a bit.
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So was there a point where you were like, OK, it's time to shift a little bit.
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It's time to move this forward a little bit.
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Yeah, we had just celebrated 25 years of the brand, which is very exciting. It was a big milestone.
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And I said to my mom after that, we had a conversation. It's like,
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where are we going from here?
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And that was when, when this really came about.
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Now, if we, because my mom does not have 25 years more in her,
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that's for sure. Right. That's what I'm here to do.
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And we had this conversation. I was like, well, I'm all in on this.
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Okay. So if we're going to do this, it's time.
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Like the brand needs to evolve a little, a little bit to meet the consumer where
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she is. And that's when the plans really started in an exciting way.
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The team was super excited about everybody on the team. How do you see it has changed, right?
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Like actually like actual physical pieces, there's updating,
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there's piping, like there are elements to the actual pieces that have changed.
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But has anything else changed within like the culture of your brand or other
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parts of it that have really helped guide it even more seamlessly into this new rebrand?
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We've talked a lot about where we started. So in order to figure out where we
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were going, we did a deep dive with a branding agency, understanding where did White & Warren begin.
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And at its core, we started in New York, on Bryant Park.
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We are still there today. so that quintessential New Yorkness that lives within
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New York, it's, you know, the confidence, kind of a modern little bit of edge
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that all lives in and around the brand.
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It lives within everybody that works at the brand.
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It was time for that to come through in a visual way, a slight cue to it.
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So that was part of it. And, you know, the business has always been about.
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My mom is very focused on the work. It has never been about her.
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It is about hard work and getting stuff done and putting food on the table.
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And, you know, we are fortunate to have 30 employees. When I started, we had 12 employees.
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We're focused on the people that work for us and the people that follow the
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brand, our customers, our wholesale customers, people first.
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And keeping all of that in the identity that's always been there,
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but bringing it to the forefront.
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Yeah. So cashmere, right, is not only just a personal fabric, right?
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People associate it with comfort and memory.
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Like, I swear when I get on the plane and I wrap this around me,
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I feel like I'm in a cocoon and I'm safe.
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I trust the pilots, but even though I don't entirely like flying that much,
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It's there's something about it that's very comforting.
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And it's it has to be, well, the way it feels right, the texture, the warmth.
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When you're creating those pieces that live in someone's closet forever,
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are you are you thinking about that as you're going through it?
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Yes, we are thinking about the versatility.
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Every product that we make has to be versatile. We are thinking about luxury for real life.
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And I say luxury because a lot of people think that cashmere is very precious.
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I guess it is on some level. We don't. We think it's a workhorse. We, you know, I ski in it.
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I think it is a great fabric to be doing everything in life in.
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But it has the stigma of being quite precious. So we're really thinking about
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it on a practical level and making sure that when she's buying from us,
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she understands I can wear this to drop off.
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I can wear this to work. I can wear this to dinner.
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And this piece can flex into all aspects of my life.
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And that's why I should purchase it because it's not for one thing.
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It's for many things and it's going to stay for a while.
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Yeah. Well, I can, you literally can throw it. This, you can put it anywhere.
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It's like I said. And you know how versatile it is because you were styling it.
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You know, you can wear it to weddings. You can wear it as a blanket on the plane.
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It does a lot for you. My kids are obsessed with it. They love it. Like it's, yeah.
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It's so soft. My kids, when we're flying, try to take it from me.
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I'm like, no, no, no, this is mama's. I get to keep this one. Yeah.
17:38
So sustainability is a really big discussion and has been for what,
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like the past 10, 15 years. We obviously need to be more sustainable.
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And I really love pieces like this from companies like this that.
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You're purchasing, but they're lasting a really long time. So like I said earlier,
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there's no fastness to it.
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It's not supposed to be fast. So this sustainable aspect of it is,
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and it's expected, right?
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We're kind of expecting brands to be doing this now.
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How do you approach that responsibly in this category, right?
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These natural materials, the craftsmanship, how are you bringing in that sustainable
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piece? Yeah, so we see sustainability as our responsibility at this point.
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It is not, you can see in our marketing, it is not something we lead with.
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That is, it's a core responsibility of ours. It's due diligence.
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My production team is very focused on it.
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So is my design team. So we are constantly really only looking at materials
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that are sustainable on some level, organic cotton, cashmere, wool.
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That's very important to us that the base material is that.
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And then we obviously we think a lot about making sure that there's not overconsumption.
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We are only purchasing what we truly believe that we need to run the business.
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So the demand that the customer is asking for in both channels.
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So trying to create as little wastage as possible.
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And we've worked with our factories where possible to partner with them on water
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wastage consumption, making sure that we are doing our part responsibly.
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Do you find, is there one piece right now in all of the line that you have that
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you're really excited about that you're like, you saw it and you're like,
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yes, this is, I'm going to get this or everyone should have this piece?
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So the Clubhouse collection that we just launched came, this concept came directly
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from our customers, basically telling us that this is who they are.
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We did this before the rebrand.
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We did a study with consumers and they basically told us that they identify as casual and classic.
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So looking at data specifically.
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Every time we had styles that
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have a little bit of like a sport edge to them they were
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sold but they felt like an outlier amongst the general collection and clubhouse
20:00
is really our answer to be able to deliver what we know the customer is looking
20:05
for in a cohesive really intentional way so this more relaxed side of white and warren and,
20:13
Delivering that to her through Clubhouse, which we're excited about.
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And then being able to really keep White and Warren, the main line itself,
20:20
more elevated, classic, and intact. So keeping these two tracks different.
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The style that I am most excited about right now is also the anorak.
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I think I've had it on three times this week.
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And it was one of those pieces that it felt like a risk. We don't know if they're
20:35
going to be into this idea of a knit anorak, but it has landed.
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People are liking it. And it's definitely my favorite piece right now.
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I'm going to hit the checkout button after this.
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It's been sitting there and I'm like, I'm going to do it. I'm up in Vermont.
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You're in the mountains.
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And, you know, I'm like, this really could have been good for my outfits out here.
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Like, I could just be in it. I agree. I totally agree. I can wear it on the
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way to the gym. I can just lounge in it.
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And those are the pieces that I think a lot of us are gravitating towards.
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Like you said, I mean, it's a workhorse that you can style in many different
21:08
ways and get real use out of.
21:11
Yes. I really love that anorak. It's so good. I can't wait to purchase it.
21:16
So how are you balancing everything right now? So I always talk about on the
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podcast that balance is kind of a, there's no balance, right?
21:23
We don't balance anything. We have kids, we have husbands, we have spouses,
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like there's a lot going on.
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But where do you find the time to reset yourself, right? To come back to you, take a breath.
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Like what are you doing so that you are keeping that grounding for yourself.
21:41
Yes. Exercise is a non-negotiable for me.
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That is how I keep my sanity.
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So it's in its routine. I'm very regimented in routines.
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My husband says that I'm the most disciplined person that he knows.
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So I guess that's how I get it done. You know, my routine in the morning is,
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you know, water, lemon water, coffee, getting the kids out the door.
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I exercise before my day starts because it's,
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It's essential. And if I don't have time to do it, then I get out and I take
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a walk in the middle of the day.
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I actually find walking while taking a call with somebody for work extremely energizing.
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And my, I could probably tell my general tone is pretty, I'm pretty calm, pretty even keeled.
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And when I'm walking and talking, it's like that car, the gear,
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I'm like up a notch. So they can tell. They're like, whoa, okay.
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She's like, you know, it's like she just had a cup of coffee,
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which is another way to kind of re reinvigorate.
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If I'm like feeling like a slump, I need to, you know, kind of reset in the middle of the day.
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That's what I'll do. And it doesn't matter the temperature. It'll be freezing
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cold out. I'm still doing it. Yeah.
22:56
I find the founders that I talk to, that is one thing that they all say.
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Movement is essential. And I love that.
23:07
I love that about it because it's something that I have to do every day.
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Not just because I feel good. It's essential for my mental state. Yeah.
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And there'll be moments when I've just there's too much. And my husband's like,
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I think it's time. Let's just go.
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Just go do what you need to do. Get that energy out.
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That's where I find the grounding happens. Like, all right, I'm in.
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You know, I love the walking now. I found myself doing it.
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And now every time I'm on the phone, it's like circles around the house, just like moving.
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And I don't know, maybe you're probably processing it better or we're working
23:43
through it. but I think it really does.
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I even got a walking pad for our house. So sometimes I'm indoors and I'm walking all the time now.
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It's actually, I learned this from my husband who cannot have a conversation
23:56
without walking. So when he is working from home.
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The amount of steps, I mean, he's all over the apartment. He's just everywhere.
24:03
And I was like, there's got to be something to this. So I started doing this a couple of years ago.
24:09
Huge unlock. I love the walking pad. I was talking with someone yesterday that
24:13
I'd like one here up in Vermont because, you know, when it's snowing or icy,
24:18
my clamp-ons can take me so far.
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I was like, a walking pad would be great. I could sit there and walk and be
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on the computer and get everything done.
24:27
I'm moving around. I totally get it.
24:30
Looking ahead, five years from now, what do you hope White & Warren is known for?
24:36
Like beyond the cashmere, beyond the creations, what do you want to be known for in five years?
24:42
I want us to establish ourselves and be established as the New York cashmere brand.
24:47
I love it. That's it. Well, I love what you're doing with your social media.
24:51
I've noticed a difference.
24:52
And recently there's been this real uptick because of all the AI with people
24:58
creating on Instagram in particular, because that's the one that I gravitate
25:03
towards for social media, realness, right?
25:07
The images of you're getting dressed, but there's a towel on the floor in the kitchen, right?
25:13
It's not perfect. And I think a lot of people, especially the older millennials
25:19
and millennials are like, I want nothing to do with this fake stuff. Where is reality?
25:24
So do you find that you're this new vision of the brand? You're moving towards
25:30
that more to these concepts. Yes.
25:32
Women walking through New York and actual people who actually are like employees wearing items.
25:39
Yes. Do you feel like that's helping as you move through this new phase,
25:43
this new, you know, vision?
25:45
Yeah, it's essential to be able to connect with the older millennial that we're
25:51
talking about that we have to translate into.
25:55
She has to identify with the brand on some level. And our pathway to doing that
26:00
is really thinking about, well, how are we showing her how white and orange shows up in her life?
26:04
How does she see it? Why does that become relevant to her? And it's through storytelling.
26:09
It's through the visuals of, you know, at the bodega, picking up a sandwich,
26:14
walking out, wearing white and worn.
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That's like, you know, drop off, pick up. Like, this is how we enter your lives.
26:22
And certainly, employee-generated content has done really, really well.
26:28
You know, user-generated content.
26:30
The consumer really responds to that because they're seeing how...
26:35
We as a brand are living in the product and how we live our lives in it. They like that a lot.
26:42
Yeah. Yeah. It just feels more normal.
26:45
I feel like a lot of, I think we've gone through this phase of social media
26:49
where everything was just generated.
26:52
You know, it was like someone was sent something and then they said how wonderful it was.
26:56
And it wasn't hitting, at least for me. It never took off for me because I was
27:00
like, where's the realness in that?
27:02
I want people who really wear this like and talk about it so i get that i see
27:08
it i see it working really well what is bringing you this is like the last question
27:13
we've rattled through this my goodness,
27:16
what is bringing you joy right now personally professionally.
27:22
Personally, what is bringing me joy right now, my daughter, my older daughter,
27:27
I have two daughters, my older daughter is on a soccer team,
27:30
and she has really leaned into the sport.
27:34
I mean, she's committed. It's four days a week, and she loves it.
27:38
And the games are really bringing me a lot of joy.
27:42
It brings me back. It's a nostalgia. It's bringing me back to my childhood. I was a serious athlete.
27:47
I really enjoy it. I'm probably way too into it, but it is so much fun to watch.
27:53
And I'm probably, yeah, that's definitely, that's what's bringing me a lot of
27:57
joy right now. Yeah, yeah. For sure.
27:59
Do you ever see the really funny memes about soccer moms? Yeah,
28:03
I'm definitely one of them right now.
28:05
So my oldest plays soccer and he's like on two teams, like he's into it, right?
28:11
And one of my wives, my best friends, I call them my wives.
28:15
Her son is like MLS next soccer player. Like he's like next level.
28:20
And we'll send each other these memes of like, moms on
28:22
the soccer field and like soccer moms and what they
28:25
act like and how you've got your soccer wife bestie who
28:29
you know like you're not saying anything but internally you're
28:32
discussing the entire game i never played soccer
28:35
i have no idea what the game is but i'm still sitting there and you know the
28:39
two of you are having this internal conversation about it's really very it's
28:42
very true yes yes i've definitely found a whole other community of like there's
28:46
there's a lot of us moms that are very passionate about this and it's it's fun
28:50
i'm having fun yeah And she's having fun. Most importantly, she's having fun. She's having fun.
28:55
That's all they need is just to have fun.
28:57
Something active and fun. And what about professionally? What's bringing you joy professionally?
29:03
For me, leading the team through change. Change is hard.
29:08
And right now we're at a time where we have almost half the organization that
29:13
has been with us in the best way for, you know, some of them 12 plus years,
29:18
some of them 20 plus years at this point.
29:20
And we've also brought in a lot of new talent to the team to help us through
29:26
this rebrand in the space that we didn't have talent before in performance marketing
29:31
and the chief commercial officer and seeing the change happen with this team,
29:38
which it hasn't been perfect.
29:39
It wasn't perfect at first, but now seeing them start to work together and to
29:44
experience that team working really closely together and more driven than ever
29:51
because they are rallied behind this rebrand is what I am most excited about right now.
29:57
Awesome. This was really wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me.
30:00
I appreciate it so much. How busy you are with all of your life.
30:04
So taking up the time to chat with us is really appreciated.
30:08
So thank you. This was fun, Maria.
30:11
I feel like this was the invigorating start to my afternoon.
30:14
So thank you. I want them to be invigorating. Have a great weekend.
30:19
What a good start. You too.
30:20
Have fun in Vermont. Thank you so much for joining me today on She's Smart.
30:26
New episodes drop every other Thursday.
30:29
Don't forget to subscribe, like, and share. Stay cozy.