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Transcript

The Mixed Morality of Toy Story 4 · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 118 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: Hi everyone.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: So, like we mentioned in, I think our last episode, maybe 2 episodes ago, we are going to do our word or phrase as the word debuted.
• 0:43
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 0:44
  I Hate Talking: So, I'm gonna guess it's French and that it is for like the first appearance of is like the definition.
• 0:54
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 0:54
  I Hate Talking: What do you think?
• 0:56
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, the beginning of something when it first started.
• 0:59
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 1:01
  I Hate Talking: So let's check our favorite.
• 1:04
  I Hate Talking: Heritage Dictionary.
• 1:06
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 1:07
  I Hate Talking: So, according to our favorite American Heritage Dictionary of the English language, 5th edition.
• 1:14
  I Hate Talking: Debut or debuted is defined as the first public appearance as a performer or a formal presentation.
• 1:25
  I Hate Talking: Of a young person to society or the beginning of a course of action.
• 1:31
  I Hate Talking: Such as like foreign policy, the debut of a new foreign policy.
• 1:37
  I Hate Talking: There you go, yeah.
• 1:39
  I Hate Talking: So that is an example of the first course of action.
• 1:42
  I Hate Talking: It can also be used as a verb to formally introduce or to make one's initial formal appearance.
• 1:50
  I Hate Talking: OK, so why is it spelled?
• 1:53
  I Hate Talking: Most of the words we use, even if they come from French or whatnot, we don't spell the same way any longer.
• 1:58
  I Hate Talking: We've um Americanized them.
• 2:01
  I Hate Talking: So why is this word still spelled that way?
• 2:03
  I Hate Talking: Well, it's probably because English is not really a language.
• 2:08
  I Hate Talking: It's more of a mashup of a variety of languages.
• 2:11
  I Hate Talking: And In most countries, most languages, they do not have spelling bees.
• 2:19
  I Hate Talking: It is really just an English phenomenon to have spelling bees.
• 2:26
  I Hate Talking: And mainly, I think in America, but maybe in England too or English speaking countries, and that's because It's the only language where it's actually challenging to spell, cause other languages are exclusively their own language, and therefore everything is spelled in a consistent fashion, whereas English, because it has taken words from other languages, And made it its own that, therefore, you can actually have a competition in spelling words because they have such a variety of etymologies and sources and origins.
• 3:06
  I Hate Talking: Since English is such a mashup and often breaks so many rules that they establish themselves.
• 3:14
  I Hate Talking: That's why it's challenging and why we only are the ones that do spelling bees.
• 3:19
  I Hate Talking: Correct.
• 3:20
  I Hate Talking: So debut does come from French, it comes from the word debut.
• 3:26
  I Hate Talking: Which literally means first appearance.
• 3:30
  I Hate Talking: It was derived from the verb debuter, which means to begin, and that has been part of the English language since the 18th century.
• 3:41
  I Hate Talking: And it looks like it is a word that the French use, debut, and English in the 18th century and just co-opted that word and made its own in English.
• 3:52
  I Hate Talking: But why didn't we change it?
• 3:54
  I Hate Talking: That was my question from before is we change a lot of French words to be more modern or Americanized.
• 4:01
  I Hate Talking: Why did we stick with debut?
• 4:03
  I Hate Talking: Instead of like some other or or Chow, right?
• 4:11
  I Hate Talking: Well, probably because there was not a single shortened word for first appearance.
• 4:18
  I Hate Talking: It was easier just to Use the word debut instead of chow, you can say, Goodbye, which we have also done as a word or phrase the episode.
• 4:29
  I Hate Talking: Right.
• 4:30
  I Hate Talking: What about croissant?
• 4:31
  I Hate Talking: Is that A word we did not change.
• 4:34
  I Hate Talking: I feel like it did change.
• 4:36
  I Hate Talking: I think they have a word for croissant, and then we Americanized it, right?
• 4:39
  I Hate Talking: I have no idea.
• 4:40
  I Hate Talking: We do use the word croissant in English.
• 4:43
  I Hate Talking: I don't even know how to spell it.
• 4:46
  I Hate Talking: You wouldn't be good at the spelling bees then, huh?
• 4:50
  I Hate Talking: I've not when it's like double S's and things like that.
• 4:54
  I Hate Talking: So, let's search for croissant in French.
• 4:59
  I Hate Talking: The French word for croissant is croissant.
• 5:04
  I Hate Talking: That's what I was thinking, OK, which means literally crescent.
• 5:07
  I Hate Talking: Makes sense, the shape.
• 5:09
  I Hate Talking: So we did not change that one.
• 5:10
  I Hate Talking: Croissant is croissant.
• 5:12
  I Hate Talking: You could order a croissant in France and There would not be any translation issues.
• 5:20
  I Hate Talking: So there you go.
• 5:23
  I Hate Talking: Just an accent accent, -- I think they say like -- croissant croissant.
• 5:26
  I Hate Talking: Yes, well, they would also probably say debut instead of debut.
• 5:31
  I Hate Talking: So there you go.
• 5:32
  I Hate Talking: So Toy Story 4 debuted in what year?
• 5:37
  I Hate Talking: Uh, we looked it up, we've said it before.
• 5:40
  I Hate Talking: I know you're looking it up right now.
• 5:41
  I Hate Talking: So in my head, I'm gonna say 2013.
• 5:44
  I Hate Talking: Am I right?
• 5:46
  I Hate Talking: So Toy Story 4 debuted in 2019.
• 5:51
  I Hate Talking: whoops.
• 5:52
  I Hate Talking: But we watched it and Just last week, -- just -- last week, and I certainly have not seen it before.
• 6:03
  I Hate Talking: We alluded this to the fact that we have not watched it before in a previous episode or so ago, and that is a fact.
• 6:11
  I Hate Talking: I have not seen it.
• 6:12
  I Hate Talking: All 6 of us had all really were really enjoying it, and we all said that we never saw it before.
• 6:19
  I Hate Talking: Spoiler alert.
• 6:20
  I Hate Talking: I am pleasantly surprised at how good the Toy Story universe is.
• 6:25
  I Hate Talking: All 4 of the movies hold up.
• 6:28
  I Hate Talking: I really think they're good.
• 6:29
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, Disney is pretty good at being fairly consistent within their universe, Toy Story included.
• 6:36
  I Hate Talking: In fact, there's even some Universes that overlap, like cars and airplane or the planes movie and I think Toy Story and cars overlap a little bit, right?
• 6:50
  I Hate Talking: Doesn't cars have like the Pizza Planet truck in it or something like that.
• 6:55
  I Hate Talking: So, I was slightly familiar with the character Forky from some I guess social media or just cultural influence of some point, but certainly had not seen the entire feature length film, I mistakenly thought he was the villain.
• 7:15
  I Hate Talking: But he's not Was there a villain in Toy Story 4?
• 7:19
  I Hate Talking: Yeah Perhaps Gabby Gabby, Gabby, Gabby, Gabby, Gabby, Gabby talks a lot.
• 7:27
  I Hate Talking: Mhm.
• 7:27
  I Hate Talking: That is like the supposed villain and it's sort of portrayed as a villain.
• 7:33
  I Hate Talking: But that particular villain has a redemption arc.
• 7:36
  I Hate Talking: Mhm, that's true.
• 7:38
  I Hate Talking: So I thought it was interesting that Toy Story 12, and 3 all had very specific.
• 7:47
  I Hate Talking: Villains in them.
• 7:49
  I Hate Talking: Toy Story 1 was Sid.
• 7:51
  I Hate Talking: He was like the protagonist for a lot of the movie.
• 7:55
  I Hate Talking: You had the chicken man slash collector, as sort of the human villain, and then sort of his counterpart that had a lot of very similar aspects in terms of their outlook on life and motivation.
• 8:12
  I Hate Talking: The prospector.
• 8:14
  I Hate Talking: Mm Right, -- for 2 and then 3 is -- lotso.
• 8:18
  I Hate Talking: Lotso, and he does not get redeemed, right?
• 8:21
  I Hate Talking: He gets, he almost like gets redeemed.
• 8:24
  I Hate Talking: He's gonna act like he's gonna get redeemed and come to the light and be like a functioning toy that will go have a kid or whatever, but he Backstabs the rest of the toys and then becomes the hood ornament of a trash truck.
• 8:44
  I Hate Talking: Mhm.
• 8:45
  I Hate Talking: One of our kids did say for 4, they liked it better because we talked about before about 3 being so dark.
• 8:51
  I Hate Talking: They said 4 is less scary.
• 8:54
  I Hate Talking: I guess, but 4 was actually like a little bit scary with like the Mannequins that would be used by like a ventriloquist or whatever and some of the antiquated themes of the toy shop and Antique store, things like that.
• 9:14
  I Hate Talking: So what about Bo Bo Peep, because she was significantly different and she was not in 3.
• 9:21
  I Hate Talking: And she was significantly different in 4 than she was in 1 and 2.
• 9:26
  I Hate Talking: Why do you think Bo is this independent powerhouse now?
• 9:30
  I Hate Talking: I'd also argue that Buzz is quite a bit different than the 1st 3 movies as well.
• 9:36
  I Hate Talking: How so?
• 9:37
  I Hate Talking: He just doesn't seem to have any agency, which I think was sort of the joke, so there are some spoilers ahead, I suppose, because like he uses the inner voice, AKA his recorded messages that are played when he presses a button.
• 9:55
  I Hate Talking: That He doesn't really make any decisions for himself.
• 9:59
  I Hate Talking: He is all guided by this inner voice, whereas like that was part of The major character development in Toy Story One when he saves Woody in Sid's house from like just A life of Being resigned to the fact that he's never going to return, as is actually the one that Inspires him to.
• 10:25
  I Hate Talking: Try again.
• 10:27
  I Hate Talking: Right, he definitely had a very less small part.
• 10:31
  I Hate Talking: In this movie, I thought it was kind of great that he was like growing, like learning about your inner voice, in your conscience, and uh even though he didn't really get it, I thought that was kind of a bit of a growth, but he definitely had a small, smaller part.
• 10:47
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 10:48
  I Hate Talking: But going back to Bo Peep, I think there is a Bo Peep movie, right?
• 10:54
  I Hate Talking: Did the Bo Peep movie come out after or before Toy Story 4?
• 10:57
  I Hate Talking: Never saw it.
• 10:59
  I Hate Talking: Never saw it.
• 10:59
  I Hate Talking: I've not seen this one either.
• 11:00
  I Hate Talking: I wonder if it came after and it was like.
• 11:03
  I Hate Talking: All the things that happened between Toy Story 2 and Toy Story 4, unlike her character development.
• 11:11
  I Hate Talking: There's a short film called Lamp Life that was made in 2020.
• 11:18
  I Hate Talking: So a year after this movie came out, right?
• 11:21
  I Hate Talking: And it probably explains some of her backstory.
• 11:23
  I Hate Talking: So, she is quite a bit different.
• 11:27
  I Hate Talking: However, you don't really have a lot of screen time of Bo Peep in Toy Story 1 or 2.
• 11:31
  I Hate Talking: In my opinion, there's Very few scenes that are associated with her.
• 11:37
  I Hate Talking: And then, and then there has been, I guess, many years between Toy Story 2 and Toy Story 4.
• 11:44
  I Hate Talking: So, a lot has happened.
• 11:46
  I Hate Talking: The person can become a different person.
• 11:48
  I Hate Talking: In that sort of time frame, I suppose, and who knows, it's a toy, so.
• 11:54
  I Hate Talking: Who knows what happens with the toy.
• 11:56
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps in the playground, the children imagined her as more of an independent woman, and therefore she assumed that identity because that is how children imagined her.
• 12:08
  I Hate Talking: Maybe, but I feel like all the other characters were drawn very similar from their initial, and she's drawn extremely different.
• 12:17
  I Hate Talking: I did notice that one of the kids was watching a clip show of Toy Story one, recently.
• 12:24
  I Hate Talking: After the fact of watching Toy Story 4, and there is quite a bit of difference.
• 12:29
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, even in 1 and 2, she's drawn differently and then significantly different in 4, not just costume-wise, but like her makeup and face.
• 12:40
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 12:41
  I Hate Talking: But all the other characters are drawn.
• 12:44
  I Hate Talking: Identical as far as I'm aware.
• 12:46
  I Hate Talking: I suppose so, yeah, I think there's a probably a little bit of cleanup on their like 3D models and things like that, but in terms of like actual differences, yeah, probably correct.
• 12:58
  I Hate Talking: So going back to what makes them alive, quote unquote.
• 13:03
  I Hate Talking: In 4, I noticed that there were different times like Bo Peep was put on a counter with other figurines and she was alive and aware that she was unable to move because she got glued there.
• 13:17
  I Hate Talking: And but all the characters around her, all the figurines.
• 13:23
  I Hate Talking: Didn't seem alive and were interacting with her.
• 13:26
  I Hate Talking: Is that because children did not know they were, didn't think of them as toys, they were created as figurines for adults?
• 13:33
  I Hate Talking: Do you remember what I'm thinking of?
• 13:35
  I Hate Talking: Yes.
• 13:36
  I Hate Talking: So, yeah, I think.
• 13:38
  I Hate Talking: Those weren't really toys though, right?
• 13:41
  I Hate Talking: Weren't they more decorative figurine type, but she wasn't a toy, she's a lamp.
• 13:45
  I Hate Talking: She's a her and her.
• 13:49
  I Hate Talking: Lamps are a fixture to a nightlight.
• 13:54
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 13:56
  I Hate Talking: So, I guess.
• 13:58
  I Hate Talking: The kids either broke them off or or they just.
• 14:02
  I Hate Talking: Not actually affixed during the original distribution of said lamp.
• 14:08
  I Hate Talking: I don't know.
• 14:10
  I Hate Talking: I mean, she definitely walked free and when she got glued in place, she was upset about it.
• 14:15
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 14:17
  I Hate Talking: Now Bo Peep is more of a character.
• 14:19
  I Hate Talking: Whereas like figurines don't have necessarily a name and backstory.
• 14:24
  I Hate Talking: Like Bo Peep has all our sheep, right?
• 14:28
  I Hate Talking: Well, it just makes me think like the characters we're talking about, they weren't officially because it's probably copyrighted, but essentially they were like, Uh, Dickens Christmas characters and that sort of thing.
• 14:42
  I Hate Talking: So they would have backstories, they would have a specific role in their universe.
• 14:48
  I Hate Talking: But they all stayed put.
• 14:51
  I Hate Talking: They did not interact with her or seem aware that they were alive.
• 14:55
  I Hate Talking: Right.
• 14:57
  I Hate Talking: I think that has to do with the fact that either children did not consider them as playthings and did not imagine them carrying out a particular story, or they were not allowed to play with Dickens figurines.
• 15:11
  I Hate Talking: They sound very expensive.
• 15:13
  I Hate Talking: I guess so.
• 15:16
  I Hate Talking: So Buzz was a bit different.
• 15:20
  I Hate Talking: I think Woody was pretty much the same.
• 15:21
  I Hate Talking: All the other characters really did not have very many large parts in it.
• 15:26
  I Hate Talking: No, for Forky, though, I thought it was interesting that a big part of his storyline initially was that he was trash.
• 15:35
  I Hate Talking: He was created out of trashed items, and so he kept wanting to go to the trash can.
• 15:42
  I Hate Talking: So when do you think he became real?
• 15:44
  I Hate Talking: He did have feet created.
• 15:48
  I Hate Talking: He got his name written, got Bonnie's name written on the bottom of his soul, and that was said this week.
• 15:55
  I Hate Talking: When they talked about.
• 15:59
  I Hate Talking: That he is alive or that he belonged to someone, right?
• 16:04
  I Hate Talking: Because he has got Bonnie's name written on him.
• 16:08
  I Hate Talking: So is that when you become alive?
• 16:11
  I Hate Talking: It's when you get.
• 16:11
  I Hate Talking: A name written on you?
• 16:13
  I Hate Talking: I don't think so because we've mentioned this in Toy Story 2 that all the toys within the toy shop, other buzzes, Barbies, things of that nature that are unowned, unpurchased, they are, they're still alive, they're still alive, sapient, sentient, and have agency and even awareness that they are toys, at least some of them, some of them, right.
• 16:38
  I Hate Talking: So I thought it was interesting though, why did he think he was trash versus a toy then?
• 16:45
  I Hate Talking: Well, probably in an average child's imagination.
• 16:51
  I Hate Talking: Some children would not imagine that as a being.
• 16:56
  I Hate Talking: They would have just imagined it as trash.
• 16:58
  I Hate Talking: They would view that particular thing as trash.
• 17:00
  I Hate Talking: Like, that's just something that was made out of trash, quite literally, and therefore it is trash, and therefore the toy imbues part of that particular aspect of their reality and thinks themselves as trash, whereas other children may view them as an actual plaything.
• 17:21
  I Hate Talking: And that way they have sort of this mix of trash and toy.
• 17:27
  I Hate Talking: Hm, OK.
• 17:28
  I Hate Talking: And then, as I mentioned, I think it's interesting, I don't know if it's a sign of the cultural times or just the particular storyline, but I didn't feel like there was a very defined good guy versus bad guy.
• 17:42
  I Hate Talking: Because like, Gabby sort of played the part of the bad guy, the protagonist, -- and -- for, well, for, for the first half of the movie, yes, but then.
• 17:55
  I Hate Talking: Like She just all of a sudden decided that.
• 17:59
  I Hate Talking: She would not Be selfish or maybe she was selfish the entire way through, but it almost seems like the movie portrayed her in a positive light at the end when the young human being was lost and this particular Gabby toy was the way that that girl was comforted, and then Gabby had a kid.
• 18:22
  I Hate Talking: Right, I don't think that it was selfless though for her.
• 18:26
  I Hate Talking: She wanted a kid and she seized her opportunity.
• 18:30
  I Hate Talking: At the prompting of the other choice though, right, because she was scared that she'd be rejected again because she kept getting rejected.
• 18:38
  I Hate Talking: I think selfless or wasn't on behalf of the kid, it was that she thought the kid was going to reject her and so she was doing self-preservation.
• 18:48
  I Hate Talking: By not putting herself out there.
• 18:51
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that's true.
• 18:53
  I Hate Talking: So I just think the rest of the toys and sort of the movie in general.
• 18:57
  I Hate Talking: Just like flipped a switch at some point and was like, this used to be the bad guy and now they're a good guy cause like we decided that they are.
• 19:05
  I Hate Talking: What about the mannequins?
• 19:07
  I Hate Talking: I'm not sure if they had much agency.
• 19:10
  I Hate Talking: They seemed almost Like robotic So what are they doing now that Gabby's not there at the store with them?
• 19:19
  I Hate Talking: I don't know, whatever robots do when there's nobody to command them, I just sit there and await their next command.
• 19:26
  I Hate Talking: And it sort of makes sense, like, if they are dummy, they're only going to do what the ventriloquist tells them to do.
• 19:36
  I Hate Talking: I hope, and I kept expecting this to happen in 4.
• 19:41
  I Hate Talking: I hope it happens in 5.
• 19:42
  I Hate Talking: I thought Bo Peep because she shows how much.
• 19:45
  I Hate Talking: Ability she has at fixing things and helping people.
• 19:50
  I Hate Talking: I thought she was gonna help Woody with his soundbox.
• 19:53
  I Hate Talking: And take Gabby's broken one, fix it so that he has a working soundbox again.
• 20:00
  I Hate Talking: So when it ended and that didn't happen, I was kind of surprised.
• 20:04
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 20:04
  I Hate Talking: But big spoiler alert ahead, Woody does not really need his voice box anymore because now he is a lost toy.
• 20:11
  I Hate Talking: So I have no idea what the story arc of Toy Story 5 is, and don't suppose I will look, so.
• 20:19
  I Hate Talking: We've warned our listeners that there are spoilers in this episode for Toy Story 4, so please don't -- spoil Toy Story 5 for me until we -- watch it.
• 20:28
  I Hate Talking: Right, I don't know how I feel about him giving up on his friend group and Bonnie though for a girl.
• 20:36
  I Hate Talking: I guess, but didn't Bonnie give up on him first?
• 20:40
  I Hate Talking: She outgrew him.
• 20:42
  I Hate Talking: Well, there you go.
• 20:43
  I Hate Talking: So, Bonnie still played with the other toys, Jesse and Bullseye and Rex and Slinky and ham.
• 20:54
  I Hate Talking: Right.
• 20:55
  I Hate Talking: What do you got left behind.
• 20:56
  I Hate Talking: Andy gave up on all the other toys more than Woody and Buzz.
• 21:02
  I Hate Talking: The others got kind of tossed aside.
• 21:04
  I Hate Talking: And they still stuck as a team together.
• 21:08
  I Hate Talking: And didn't ditch one another.
• 21:10
  I Hate Talking: They could have.
• 21:11
  I Hate Talking: They had opportunities and they didn't.
• 21:13
  I Hate Talking: -- So it's annoying to me that -- Woody, I think the shark toy would have left if he had the ability to, but he can't really walk.
• 21:20
  I Hate Talking: And the army men left.
• 21:22
  I Hate Talking: That was part of the, where did that happen at?
• 21:26
  I Hate Talking: Was that in That was 2 or 3, I think 3.
• 21:31
  I Hate Talking: So they were like, we're out of here.
• 21:35
  I Hate Talking: Andy doesn't play with us anymore, so we're gonna leave.
• 21:38
  I Hate Talking: So they ditched the group, but they were kind of always like on the outskirts of the group too.
• 21:45
  I Hate Talking: They weren't the core group.
• 21:47
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 21:48
  I Hate Talking: It just bothers me that Woody.
• 21:51
  I Hate Talking: Woody was not the leader of Bonnie's toy.
• 21:56
  I Hate Talking: Empire, right, but then let's say more about Woody that when he's the leader, he's all in and helping.
• 22:04
  I Hate Talking: And then when he isn't the leader anymore, he's so quick to ditch everyone.
• 22:08
  I Hate Talking: I don't, I kind of am anti-Woody now.
• 22:11
  I Hate Talking: Anti-Woody.
• 22:12
  I Hate Talking: Interesting.
• 22:13
  I Hate Talking: See, this is where the fact that there is sort of mixed moral code and no defined protagonist and antagonists that.
• 22:22
  I Hate Talking: These questions come up and it can be confusing for children, especially in these type of movies that don't have good versus evil.
• 22:29
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I mean, he's definitely got the main character syndrome, and I don't like that it has to be all about him.
• 22:37
  I Hate Talking: And what he's doing for the group or he's doing for the kid, or he's out.
• 22:42
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 22:44
  I Hate Talking: You can because Buzz after one or halfway through one, when he realized he was a toy and he's part of this group.
• 22:53
  I Hate Talking: He always lays himself down for the group.
• 22:57
  I Hate Talking: He's constantly putting himself in danger when he could happily just live in with the kid alone.
• 23:03
  I Hate Talking: But he doesn't because he doesn't have main character syndrome.
• 23:07
  I Hate Talking: There you go.
• 23:08
  I Hate Talking: So maybe Woody's The villain.
• 23:12
  I Hate Talking: What he's the villain.
• 23:13
  I Hate Talking: It's quite possible he is sort of the main reason that a lot of bad things happen in 123, and 4.
• 23:21
  I Hate Talking: Interesting take on that.
• 23:24
  I Hate Talking: So ranking Toy Story 123, and 4.
• 23:29
  I Hate Talking: So I think we both agreed previously that 132 was our preferred ranking order.
• 23:37
  I Hate Talking: Where do you rank them now when you add 4 into the mix?
• 23:42
  I Hate Talking: I think I'd say 1.
• 23:44
  I Hate Talking: 342.
• 23:46
  I Hate Talking: I'm very conflicted on that same ranking, so definitely 1, no question about it.
• 23:54
  I Hate Talking: 1 is the top still.
• 23:56
  I Hate Talking: I would say 3 is still good.
• 24:00
  I Hate Talking: I guess I'm debating on whether 2 or 4 would be.
• 24:05
  I Hate Talking: The 3rd place rank because It's interesting that, like the other movies, I did not really have any particular, like, really likes or dislikes about them.
• 24:18
  I Hate Talking: They were sort of, you know, all equivalent and it was more about the plot and the storytelling and things like that.
• 24:26
  I Hate Talking: Whereas, because Toy Story 4 has this good versus evil sort of, Just Not very clearly defined.
• 24:36
  I Hate Talking: And then I also felt that Toy Story 4 was longer than it needed to be.
• 24:41
  I Hate Talking: It sort of seemed like, oh, they're really close to the goal.
• 24:44
  I Hate Talking: And then they're like, oh, no, we got to go do this other thing.
• 24:47
  I Hate Talking: Oh, they're really close to the goal and the movie can end.
• 24:49
  I Hate Talking: Oh, they got to go do this other thing.
• 24:51
  I Hate Talking: And it happened like 5 different times.
• 24:53
  I Hate Talking: And then it finally ended.
• 24:54
  I Hate Talking: So it felt a bit excessive to me.
• 24:57
  I Hate Talking: The redeeming factor, and I did not know this until I watched it, is, do you know who voiced Duke Kaboom from Canada?
• 25:03
  I Hate Talking: No, Keanu Reeves.
• 25:07
  I Hate Talking: Oh wow, is he from Canada?
• 25:08
  I Hate Talking: I think he has some relationship to Canada.
• 25:11
  I Hate Talking: Yes, but I didn't know that he does a lot of different voice acting.
• 25:16
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, he's in, uh, what's that movie about.
• 25:19
  I Hate Talking: The guy that changes minds and things like that.
• 25:25
  I Hate Talking: Hilde, Hilde's in the movie.
• 25:26
  I Hate Talking: It's a show.
• 25:28
  I Hate Talking: Rather.
• 25:28
  I Hate Talking: Keanu Reeves does a lot of stuff.
• 25:32
  I Hate Talking: We were Hildy in the show about I'll find you.
• 25:36
  I Hate Talking: No, I'll find you.
• 25:37
  I Hate Talking: We'll have to talk about that at some point.
• 25:39
  I Hate Talking: The show about where Severance, Severance, yes, you know, you don't, you didn't know the name Severance.
• 25:45
  I Hate Talking: I had trouble recalling it, I guess.
• 25:47
  I Hate Talking: I, I guess that was in my other mind.
• 25:49
  I Hate Talking: Do you know that Keanu Reeves voices a particular thing in that show as well?
• 25:54
  I Hate Talking: What's he?
• 25:56
  I Hate Talking: He voices the building in like one of their promo videos.
• 25:59
  I Hate Talking: Oh, I think I did hear that.
• 26:01
  I Hate Talking: I listened to the podcast a while, a long time ago though.
• 26:04
  I Hate Talking: Oh, -- there -- you go.
• 26:05
  I Hate Talking: But yes, if I recall right, they wanted Barack Obama to voice at first, and he said he was too busy.
• 26:13
  I Hate Talking: -- And so they got Keanu -- Reeves.
• 26:15
  I Hate Talking: Well, there you go.
• 26:16
  I Hate Talking: Barack would have done a good job at you, I think.
• 26:18
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, it would have been a good voice, but I understand it.
• 26:20
  I Hate Talking: So I think I'm gonna go with your same ranking 1342, because even though I don't really like 4, it is sort of a like I know, I.
• 26:31
  I Hate Talking: The only reason that I like it is that it actually has engendered a lot of discussion.
• 26:35
  I Hate Talking: It is more of a heady movie.
• 26:38
  I Hate Talking: In terms of like science fiction and things like that, where it has some of these deep moral questions that arise and things like that.
• 26:48
  I Hate Talking: So, OK, but what you're saying, so you don't like it, but -- from -- like a pure storytelling perspective, I would go 1324.
• 26:57
  I Hate Talking: 1324.
• 26:59
  I Hate Talking: OK, it's a little off mine, but do you notice that again on my kick of anti-Woody, 2 and 4 have a main theme of Woody when he's no longer the child's favorite.
• 27:13
  I Hate Talking: In the main character, he's quick to ditch everybody for the best of himself.
• 27:19
  I Hate Talking: He saw in 2, he was going to ditch everyone so that way he'd become some famous star.
• 27:28
  I Hate Talking: In a museum.
• 27:30
  I Hate Talking: And 4, he quickly ditches everyone so that he can.
• 27:35
  I Hate Talking: Live a rogue life instead of being stuck in a closet.
• 27:39
  I Hate Talking: But for everybody else, he's always very.
• 27:43
  I Hate Talking: Antie them leaving when they try to go to the yard sales or they try to do anything like that.
• 27:48
  I Hate Talking: He's like, no, you're part of the group.
• 27:50
  I Hate Talking: Stay with us.
• 27:51
  I Hate Talking: I guess, I mean, it took some convincing at the end of 4 for him to go be a lost toy.
• 27:57
  I Hate Talking: And there was even the particular arc where like he was very quote unquote, consistent because he went back for Forky, even though like, they had just escaped very narrowly and things like that.
• 28:11
  I Hate Talking: So, again, 4 is like a mix.
• 28:13
  I Hate Talking: It, it has like some positive characteristics and some very negative characteristics, and they're not really portrayed in.
• 28:19
  I Hate Talking: Very different light in terms of like how the movie portrays them.
• 28:24
  I Hate Talking: So I just don't like that mixed morality, I suppose.
• 28:29
  I Hate Talking: There you go.
• 28:30
  I Hate Talking: Well, I'm excited to see 5 when it ever comes out.
• 28:33
  I Hate Talking: 5, and then I guess we'll watch the Buzz movie, even though that is officially not considered canon by many fans.
• 28:42
  I Hate Talking: In the Bo Peep and Bo Peep, which I guess is like a short film, not a full length movie.
• 28:48
  I Hate Talking: There you go.
• 28:50
  I Hate Talking: And then will there be a Toy Story 6?
• 28:51
  I Hate Talking: Probably we'll probably have grandkids by then.
• 28:55
  I Hate Talking: Will the toys have grandkids?
• 28:58
  I Hate Talking: Maybe I, for the commercials I see about 5, they make jokes about Woody being bald and stuff, like his balding hairline.
• 29:07
  I Hate Talking: I mean, I guess, yeah, it sort of fades or whatever the case may be.
• 29:11
  I Hate Talking: Boys age in a different way than people, but.
• 29:14
  I Hate Talking: But I don't think they like have progeny.
• 29:18
  I Hate Talking: But if they have a new movie every 5 to 7 years.
• 29:22
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, maybe we won't have.
• 29:24
  I Hate Talking: Well, isn't that part of the plot?
• 29:25
  I Hate Talking: I guess I do know a little bit of the plot.
• 29:27
  I Hate Talking: Is, is there like 5G buzz or something like that?
• 29:30
  I Hate Talking: It can connect to the internet or has like mobile capability or something.
• 29:33
  I Hate Talking: I don't know about him, -- but they do have electronics -- now.
• 29:36
  I Hate Talking: Yes, electronics, and they're considered toys.
• 29:39
  I Hate Talking: Interesting.
• 29:40
  I Hate Talking: So, if you did enjoy this episode, you can always like, share, subscribe, maybe you have a different take on Woody or Bo Peep or Buzz or Gabby.
• 29:53
  I Hate Talking: Lots of different things discussed in terms of Toy Story 4, so you can always let us know in a comment, email, or text message.
• 30:01
  I Hate Talking: And then perhaps our word or phrase of the next episode will be antiquated.
• 30:06
  I Hate Talking: Lots of antiquated toys in Toy Story 4.
• 30:09
  I Hate Talking: Maybe not so many antiquated toys in Toy Story 5.
• 30:12
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I guess we'll have to see.
• 30:14
  I Hate Talking: So, from your friends at I Hate Talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.