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Dear Diary... · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Josh and Chuck here to remind you that
• 0:03
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• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Just go to stuff youshould know dot com and click
• 0:19
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• 0:20
  Speaker 1: tickets right there. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Charles W. Chuck Bryan is here and this is Stuff
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: you Should Know. Dear Diary edition.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess I'll just ask the obvious question. Have
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: you ever kept a diary of any kind, any kind
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: of journal?
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I did when I was younger, but
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I haven't in a long long time. And it's one
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: of those things like I'm like, gosh, this is such
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: a great idea, do it a couple of times, and
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: then just fall off, Yeah, fall off the wagon.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's one of those things that you can
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: either be inclined to be one of those people that
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: does it and keeps up with it or not. But
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you can also learn to do it, I think, with practice,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: like anything else, by setting that habit. And the reason
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I assigned this idea to Livia, who did a great job,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: is because my good friend Mike Anderson has kept a
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: daily journal since nineteen ninety one. Dear Mike, it's pretty amazing. Obviously,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: never read it, but it's just it comes up. It
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: comes up every now and then because it's it is
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: a journal of his life. But what it serves, as
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: far as the friend group goes, is a journal of
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: all of our lives to a certain degree. And sometimes
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: we'll be talking, we'll be camping or just hanging out
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: or something, and we'll be talking about something that happened
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: in the old days and we won't be clear on it,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and Michae will just be like, you know, I can
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: find that out for us, and it's just it's cool.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a bit of a time capsule, and
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: you know it's a he's he's currently getting them, i think,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: digitized from his old handwriting days, oh handwritten days, rather
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and I was like, you know these are important, right
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and you need to make sure you know, we're all
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: getting older, and like, what if a UFO picked you
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: up and took you away, and he's like, I got
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that cover of my friend there going to his daughter
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: already there will be preserved by her. And I would.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Mike's a crazy, weird, creative genius, so I would. I'd
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: like to see these like published one day.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's who you want to keep a journal for
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: that long? For sure.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: It could be one of those things that comes out,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: you know, one hundred years from now, and that's when
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: he becomes famous.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: What year did he start?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety one, so it's twenty twenty three, So do
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the math.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: No, wait, thirty eight years?
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Do the math?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Are you sweating my upper lip is?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Anyway, So this is on diaries And this actually turned out,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: at least in the history section, to be way more
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: woman centric than I imagined it would be. But it
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense now that I see the
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: history of it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and if you kind of dive into tenth
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: century Japan, which we'll talk about in a second, there
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: was a kind of a movement of journaling. What a
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: lot of people point to is the first real historical
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: example of people using diaries. They're writing because they're not
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: allowed to be externally, So the only way to share
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: themselves is to write to themselves. And women have so
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: long been repressed by men that I could see journaling
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: being a largely woman affair for most of history.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I should say, yeah, I mean we can actually start
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: with that, because the earlier examples aren't really diaries. Like
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a papyrus logbook by an Egyptian official
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: named Marror about limestone blocks being delivered for the pyramids
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: at Giza.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Not a diary.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Not a diary because there's nothing you know, A diary
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: is something personal about someone's experiences. So he wasn't like
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: ten blocks delivered today, also feeling a little depressed. If
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: anyone cares, it was just recording of things. Marcus Aurelius,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the Roman Emperor, got a little closer with his meditations
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: because he did talk about things like here's how i'd
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: like to I'd like to develop these character traits and
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: cultivate these things in my life. But it still was
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: sort of abstract. It wasn't like today, this happened and
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I felt this way about it. So it's kind of
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: these pillow books that are kind of the first diaries.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and again they came up among the ladies
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: of the court in Japan in the tenth century, and
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: again they were extraordinarily repressed, but they were able to
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: share themselves so eloquently that a lot of these these
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: what are called pillow books survived, and one of them
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: was essentially so they would kind of veer into fiction
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: and poetry and stuff in addition to recording, you know,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: historical events at the court, both large and small. It
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: could be gossip, it could be the death of an emperor.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: They're really good historical records, but they're also really good
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: inward records of historical figures who otherwise wouldn't have who
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: would have been lost to history, and that from that
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: tradition of kind of veering into fiction a little bit
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: was considered. The first novel, The Tale of the Genji,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: came out in the eleventh century by Murasaki Shikibu. I
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: think I got that right, and that was basically the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: first novel. It came out of the pillow books.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was there were the pillow books, which
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: were written by many women. They used a specific writing
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: system that was I think the first purely Japanese system
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: called hira guna. I'm probably going to get a lot
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: of the stuff wrong. And that was compared to the
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: official writing system called kanji, which I think was derived
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: from Chinese and used exclusively by men, and this other
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: writing system was used only by women, at least at first.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that changed, and I think it
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: was a little simpler, but what it allowed for was
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: if you weren't like formally educated, you could learn this
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: writing system and it allowed for more expression of emotion
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and like inner thoughts than it seems like Kanji was
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: a little more rigid and didn't have words and characters
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: for that stuff pretty neat. So they wrote these pillow books.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: There's also one called the Pillow Book, and that was
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a specific book written by how would you pronounce Sei
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: as a first name? Say saye, say say e? Shona
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Gun And that was made into a movie in nineteen
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: eighty six, Peter Greenaway the Pillow Book with what's his face?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Obh oh, what's the guy you? And McGregor was in that.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I thought he was talking about Sir Alec Guinness. No.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Uh, Europe. They started doing this in the Renaissance, right,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: started journaling.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's interesting about that is this is when
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: journaling really kind of became more widespread because the idea
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: of individualism became more widespread around the Renaissance, so people
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: started reflecting on their own experiences rather than you know,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: just counting themselves as part of the crowd. It became
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: it mattered how they felt about something that happened. Then
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: they started writing it down. So even though the pillow
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: books kind of really kicked it off, there were several
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: centuries where that just kind of fell away, and then
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: it was picked up again and really kind of took
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: off off, at least for those of us in the
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: the West, beginning in the Renaissance. Renaissance Europe.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, around the same time Puritans started doing the stuff,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Quakers started doing it, but these they were diaries, but
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: it was a little more of a you know, how
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: can I be a better Puritan or a better Quaker?
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, very sort of religious based rather than
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: just like hear my feelings about you know, Goodie Procter exactly.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: They Oh my god, I can't imagine they would write
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: The French got really into it too during the French Revolution.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I don't know exactly what kicked that off,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: but they came up with what's called the journal Intimate,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: the intimate journal, and the British also said, hey, that's
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: a pretty good idea. So they're writing about their inner lives,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: their inner feelings, thoughts, experiences. This is the I guess
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: the early nineteenth century and that same century, so this
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: is so now people are like everyday people are writing journals.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: So there are suddenly self important. And one of the
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: other big things as far as diaries and journaling are concerned,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: that came about in the nineteenth century was publishing old
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: journals in diaries. Yeah, as not just historical records, but
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: it's like kind of like for mass consumption as well.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is really interesting because I think it's super
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: cool that you can go back and read first hand
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: accounts of the westward expansion, and again a lot of
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: these were written by women and what they were going
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: through at the time. It's just a fascinating peak into
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: these times that you can't get any other way. I mean,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: you can get artifacts, you can recreate scenes in a museum,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you can paint pictures of stuff that happen, but like,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: there's nothing like being able and I know they say
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: pictures worth a thousand words. But I think it's kind
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: of reversed in this situation. I think it diary is
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: worth like a gazillion pictures.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Very nice. You know, I was going to say a
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: thousand words and a diary is worth.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: A picture, right, you have worth one picture.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: But the idea that people were now willing to publish
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: other people's journals and diaries that were not intended for publication,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: it actually created a new form, a new literary form,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: the journal, the diary, usually historical, and Olivia points out
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: that that kind of raised the question from that point on,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: like are you really just writing for yourself?
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Or can you ever overcome the idea that if you
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: don't destroy these before you die, that there's a chance
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: that somebody might discover them and find them worth publishing.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And so are you paying attention a little more to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: sentence structure, to grammar, to the words you're using. You're
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: trying a little harder than you would and therefore is
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: it a little less of something than it was before
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: people started publishing these?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I get that question. There's one of our
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: old favorites, Oscar Wild. There's a very funny line and
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the importance of being earnest when a character won't let
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: another read their diary and she says it is simply
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: a very young girl's record of her own thoughts and impressions,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and consequently meant for publication. When it appears in volume form,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I hope you will order a copy.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Pretty hilarious.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: It's good stuff, very oscar wild.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: So the importance of being earnest came out in eighteen
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: ninety five, which means that that idea was established by then,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: very well established, and not a lot happened for about
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: a century, and then blogging came along in the late nineties,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, the whole point was to
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: share your diary, your journal, your innermost thoughts. The thing
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: about doing it online, though, is now you had an option.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: You could share it with your intimates, your closest friends
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and family, or and like keep everybody else out. I
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: don't know through password protection, who knows. Or you could
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: go the other way around and blog anonymously and share
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: it with everybody, but your closest friends and family have
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: no idea to you. If you do it correctly. Either way,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: you're sharing things in ways that that diarists never ever
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: did before.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or blog non anonymously for just anyone to read anything.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of what social media ended up being.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like all hang out there.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: And isn't it great? Yeah that happened.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: If everybody's ruining their own life, then nobody's ruining their
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: own life.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Uh, all right, baby, let's take an early break. Yes, okay,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: we're gonna take an early break, and we're going to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: talk about some of the more famous historical diaries out there.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: All right, we were talking before the break about historical
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: diaries and how I haven't ever really read one. I've
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: read memoirs and things, which is fine.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: That's different.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a different deal. I'd love to read one
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: of these. It really like prime to my pump.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, did that happen while you were letting it
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: all hang out there.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: There's a naval administrator, a very famous person named Samuel
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Peeps who wrote a journal for about nine years in
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Shorthand even and this is sort of a classic example
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: of a historical diary because he wrote about you know,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: restoration and the Great Plague of London and the Fire
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of London, and so not only do you have that stuff,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: but you have this stuff from his perspective, and you
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: also have him getting annoy in his marriage and talking
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: about how excited he was about his new watch and
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: like kind of fun things like that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's considered the greatest English diarist, and I'll own it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Last time he came up, I called him pepees I
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: think probably, but people wrote in and corrected us, so
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: we got it right this time.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this watch. Can you read that? That's a pretty
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: fun entry. I think about his new watch.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: But lord to see how much of my old folly
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: and childishness hangs on me still that I cannot forbear
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: carrying my watch in my hand and the coach all
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: the afternoon and seeing what o'clock it is. One hundred times.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: That was my Samuel peeps.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I love it. That's fun. He's like, what that does
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: is that makes it relatable because everyone has gotten a
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: new watch or a new shirt that they're like, I
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: gotta look in the mirror again and see how this
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: thing looks like. People get excited about that stuff, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: it's fun to see someone write about, you know, the
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: fire of London in one hand and also talk about
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: how excited it heard about their new watch.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: He wrote more than a million words dude, which on
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: its face sounds like a lot. But get this, the
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: entire Harry Potter series is just over a million words.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So he wrote about the same amount of words as
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: the entire all the books of Harry Potter by hand,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: in less time than JK. Rowling wrote them.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, all right, pretty nuts, little shade.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Uh No, not really. I'm just it's a good touchstone.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Sure, plus we could shade her for all kinds of reasons.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Sure that don't involve speed of writing, if you really
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: want to do that. Who's the Game of Thrones guy?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: That's what everyone's mad at him? Cc cc deville.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: No, it was his named George R. R. Martin.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are they still mad at him?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Cheeses? People give him a break?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that the deal. I don't even know
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: anything about that stuff, but I think everyone's just like,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: why aren't you finishing yet?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Huh? Well? What about Michael Schiner Chuck?
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, he was an enslaved person in Maryland and in
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: eighteen oh five was eventually a freeman. But he worked
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: at the Washington Naval Yards for many decades and ended
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: up keeping a fifty six year diary that was maybe
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: like my friends Mike one day that'll be published after
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: he died by historians. So all of a sudden, you
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: have this amazing account of the life of an enslaved
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: person over fifty and then a free person over fifty
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: six years.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He also was not educated. Born a slave, you
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: typically weren't educated. In fact, that was usually illegal to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: educate a slave at the time. So he taught himself, apparently.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: So he uses his own spelling, his own grammar, very
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: little punctuation, and he had to conserve paper as much
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: as possible, so he would kind of like write stuff
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: wherever there was space on an old page that he left.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I think his grandson came along and kind
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: of organized it and it ended up being published.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, And that's one thing you'll see as
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: a tip later on, is to is to write as
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: good as you can write. If you're not some fancy
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: great writer, like, don't worry about it.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you can just write punctuation and academics
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: centuries later will come along and digitize your stuff and
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: translated essentially for everybody. It's it's that it can be
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: that important.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Josie Underwood is another great example, probably the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: most famous civilian account of the Civil War. She was
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: au in a unique position because she was from a
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Southern family in Kentucky, very prominent family in Bowling Green,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: of slaveholders. But she was sympathetic to the Union cause.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: And you know, she writes a very sort of honest
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: first person account as someone from that perspective throughout the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Civil War and it became very famous.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But then interspersed with that with being occupied by
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: the Confederate Army and then the Union army, she also
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: like talked about normal life for like a society person
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: in Bowling Green, Kentucky, where you know, going to parties
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: or things like that, or looking for what she called
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: her true prince a husband. So it has it's very
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: much like Samuel Peeps. There's historic events, but it's written
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: from the perspective of the individual who also writes about
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: themselves too.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this stuff is this is history. I mean,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: this is how we learn about history. If you read
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: history books and they describe in great detail about how
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: life was. Some of that is from research and clues
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: and things like that, but some of that is from
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: first person accounts.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was another very very famous journal I don't
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: know if you'd call it a diary, but it was
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: from Captain Robert Falcon Scott, who led an expedition to
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: the South Pole in nineteen twelve, was trying to be
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: the first expedition to the South Pole, and in fact
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: they reached the South Pole to find that a rival
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: explorer had beat them by one month, and so they
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: had to make it back to civilization. They never made
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: it back, so Scott chronicled their slow demise over weeks
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: trudging through the Arctic or the Antarctic, I should say,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: just trying to get back to safety and then just
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: not doing it.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: I bet that's a heavy read.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It is. I was reading it today and it's just it's, yeah,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: it's crazy to put yourself in that situation, which he
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: makes it easy to do in just these little, you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: few sentence what do you call them, not inscriptions or installations, entries,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: just a few sentences each typically, But yeah, it really
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: kind of draws you into like inside the tent where
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: blizzard's going and one guy's nose is falling off because
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: it's so frost bit, and everybody's trying to keep their
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: spirits up kind of thing. Like he really, it's a
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: really moving journal. For sure.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: There's another one. And I never knew how to pronounce
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: his name A nice nin But I finally, do they
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: listen to who the men? On YouTube? Yeah? You ever
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: listen to that guy? Yes, today we will learn to
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: pronounce the name. Who is that a real person?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know anymore, No one knows anymore.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I gotta figure that out. That'd be a good short stuff.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe even who's real? Who is that person?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Okay? Who are these people?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll do it as Jerry Seinfelcker. Anyway, he said,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: it was pronounced a nice nin. And this was the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: course of very famous diary that she kept from age
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: eleven until and this is nineteen fourteen until she died
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven. And it was noteworthy and that
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: it was very sort of body stuff for the time.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: She talked very personally about, you know, sort of romantic
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: escapades that people did not talk about at the time.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: It was published in sixty six like a sanitized version
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: and was a big hit with the ladies largely, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: then she said, hey, after I die, why don't you
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: publish the full and uncensored version.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: But even the sanitized version was like, I've been ing
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: a double life. I've been having this affair. I'm married
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: to two guys. I've split my life between New York
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: and Los Angeles, and my husband doesn't know, like just
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff. And she purposely published them while
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: she was alive. And I mean, that's a tremendous amount
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: of risk that she took on. She ended up becoming
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: a feminist icon, like basically overnight as a.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Result, another icon. You can't talk about diaries without talking
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: about Anne Frank. And this is something that I never knew. Obviously,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: if you know, we'll tell you who Ann Frank is,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: because I always think everyone knows, even because it's the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: second most widely read book in the world after the Bible.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: But Anne Frank wrote a diary between nineteen forty two
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: and nineteen forty four as a teenager, started at thirteen
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: hiding from the Nazis with her family and wrote this diary.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: The thing I never knew is that she had planned
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to publish it. As the story goes, she was inspired
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: by a radio transmission in nineteen forty four from the
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Dutch government that said, hey, collect this and put it
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: on paper. All this everyday material about Nazi occupation, like
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: write it down so people know. And so she did
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that and like rewrote it with the aim of publishing
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: it before she was captured.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so her original diaries considered diary A. Like there's
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: entire people have written theses on parts of this stuff.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: So the first one's Diary A, the one that she
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: rewrote intended for publication, that's considered Diary B. And her
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: father Auto, the only one who survived the Nazi occupation
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: in the Netherlands of the family because they were found
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: out by the Gestapo and taken to concentration camps, which
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: is where Anne Frank was murdered as a girl. Still,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: she would have been maybe fifteen or sixteen at the time.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Auto survived and he was given her journals and basically
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: had them put together journal Diary A and Diary B
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: to kind of create like a a version of it
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: for public consumption. And after he died, they published the
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: whole thing, and that's considered Diary C. And like you said,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably the second most read book in
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the entire world after the Bible, and for good reason too.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, like this the insight into history that it
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: gives is just amazing and unparalleled. But also there's a
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: poet named John Berryman who put it like this. He
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: said that the book is about the conversion of a
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: child into a person, and Frank's going through this conversion
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: from age thirteen to fifteen. Big big difference in ages.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Right there, thirteen to fifteen, A lot happened. Yeah, and
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: she's doing it hidden away in an attic in the Netherlands,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: hiding out from the Nazi, hiding for her life.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Have you ever been to the an Frank House?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: No?
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I haven't you ever been to Amsterdam? Yes?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, make me feel bad, though, why don't you?
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: No, you shouldn't feel bad. I've been there a few times,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: and I went once. I didn't go two times.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Well, at least she went once, though. I don't even
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: have that to boast about. But I would like to
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: go though. I mean, I can't imagine how moving that
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: place is.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: So those are some famous examples of famous journals. I
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: guess you want to take another break and talk about
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: why people might write journals in the first place.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's another earliest break. But it aligns nicely.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, So, Chuck, there's all sorts of reasons to write
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: in your journal, whether you're talking about limestone being delivered
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: to build a pyramid, or being enslaved in the navy
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: yards or being occupied by the Confederate Army. People have
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: been doing it for centuries and centuries and centuries without
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: any real intention to do anything other than get their
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: thoughts out on paper. And it wasn't until the nineteen
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: sixties that psychotherapists were like, you know, there's something to that.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: People are putting their internal lives out into written form.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: They're getting out of their minds and into the world.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: There has to be some therapy to benefit to that.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: And a therapist named Ira Progoff came up with what
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: it's called intensive journaling.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and like you said, it was in nineteen sixties,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: and his version it was basically a notebook like a
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: three ring binder, with color coded sections about topically arranged
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: thematically arranged. It could be like dream recording your dreams,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: which we'll talk about again a little bit later, could
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: have been just daily life stuff. It could be very like, hey,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: write about a big event in your life, and we'll
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about trauma journaling later. Because
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: that can be very valuable and painful, I imagine. But
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: basically it's all about like almost like a meditation and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: allowing things that were important to you or related to
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: you at different points of your life to come to
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the forefront of your mind and just sort of write
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: out through the pin onto the paper or through your
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: fingis onto the keyboard.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, you sit there for a few minutes reflecting
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: on the topic you've decided to focus on for that
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: journal entry. Then you write it, then you read what
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: you just wrote, and then you write your feelings about
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: writing it and then reading it.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: That's got to be helpful, got to.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Be And that's the point of all this. Like we're
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: going to get into some pretty deep bs here eventually.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: But the upshot of it is there's a very very
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: little chance that it will be in any way harmful
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: and possibly very beneficial, and that it could be.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Difficult, yes, but that doesn't mean harmful.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Right, And that that alone makes it worth at least
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: giving it a shot. And if it works for you, great,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work for you, then you gave it a try.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's another guy named James Pinnabaker from Texas University
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: of Texas Austin. He's a psychologist that did studies on
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: what he called expressive writing. Been doing this since the eighties,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: And he said, you know where I found or where
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: he found it helpful was when you would just start
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: out with like very disjointed sort of raw feelings and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: things and then transform that into a story and into
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: a narrative. And the process of taking like a difficult experience,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: maybe just writing down the eight feelings you had about it,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and then that gets a little more detailed and more
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: detailed until you've turned it into a story can help
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: you handle that stuff more easily and help you live
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's actually studies to back this up. His
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: whole thing is like, you don't need to journal every day.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: If you do, fine, that's great. But he found that
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: just one fifteen to thirty minute session of writing about
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: a difficult or traumatic experience can help relieve not just
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: psychological symptoms, but physiological symptoms as well, and that a
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: lot of studies have found that if you do like
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: three to five for fifteen to thirty minute sessions writing
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: about the same experience, it can really help work past
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: trauma that you've been carrying around. It's pretty amazing just
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: writing about it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the things they found in studies, a
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: short term increase in distress or negative mood. That's what
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I was talking about, Like, it may be difficult in
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the moment, you know, bringing up these bad memories, but
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: it pays off in the long run. Evidence of improvements
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: in depressive systems, long term and emotional well being. Benefits
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: to physical health like lower blood pressure, better lung function,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: less illness, less doctor visits, better immune system, more antibodies.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Pretty neat, pretty amazing.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And they think that it's just by getting this
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: thing out of your working memory, essentially, by documenting on paper,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: you don't have to worry about remembering or thinking about it,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: ruminating about it anymore. You put it out there, and
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: that that alone can lower your stress levels and your
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: immune system can kick back in to higher gear again.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think he's the guy that really stressed, Like,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: do it how you do it? If you want to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: write it with a pen, fine, you can put it
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: in your phone, don't and don't worry about like writing well,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and don't worry about being fair even like you're doing
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: this for you, you're not doing this for publication, So
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: write about how you really feel, even if it's a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: very selfish thing in the moment, and try and really
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: bring up a lot of sensory details and you know,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: deep emotional, physical, sometimes feelings that you had at the
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: moment of this trauma. And be careful as you're doing it.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: It's not like a therapy replacement, but ideally to be
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: used in conjunction with therapy.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Remember in our meditat Now our mindfulness episode where we
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: talked about some people who engage in mindfulness activities like
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: find that there they freak out because they accidentally uncovered
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: trauma and they weren't prepared right, Pennebaker kind of warns
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: about the same thing. He says that there's too soon
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: for journaling. It can be that with that potent and
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: powerful that if you if it's if it follows too
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: closely after the actual traumatic event, it can be too
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: hard on you, and that you should have at least
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: some distance of time. And probably the more you know,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: for a seriously traumatic event, you probably want to do
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: this under the advisement of a therapist. Don't necessarily try
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to do it on yourself. So it's probably not going
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: to harm you, but the potential is there enough that
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: if this is, you could probably only be the only
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: judge for yourself. Right, this is so weighty that it
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: could break you mentally. You should probably talk to somebody
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: first about how to do it correctly or when to
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree. A gratitude journal is something that I
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: had never really heard of.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I never heard of though I've heard about
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: course gratitude and thankful and ruminating on that stuff, but
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: like actually writing it down a list or a journal
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: is a pretty popular thing that I'm a big dummy
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: for not knowing, because they've even done a meta analysis
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: and so that means there's a lot of studies on it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, Japanese researchers did this analysis and
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: they found that it really helps with stress and depression
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: if you do it at least like six times, it
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: said over the course of a study. I'm not sure
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: what timeframe that is, but basically, like you know, it
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: can take a lot of forms. Noticing generosity that you
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: see walking around in the world, things that you're just
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: thankful for. It can help lead to you expressing gratitude
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: and thanks to others, and you can also note that,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: but it's you know, sort of a version of what's
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: called positive affect journaling, which is basically focusing on positive
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: things and gratitude and ideally that's going to increase your
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: well being. And then it seems like it would.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And they also say you want to
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: be very detailed, you want to typically focus on people,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: not necessarily things that you're grateful for, although you can
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: focus on that, and that it's much better to focus
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: on a single topic rather than you know, list off
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: five things like I'm grateful for this, this, and this.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: More like I'm grateful for this and this is why
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: is much more helpful as far as gratitude journals go.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I like that. Also, going back to the trauma things
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: just real quick, there was a twenty sixteen study by
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: a researcher named g. Jung Park, and they found that
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: people who use expressive journaling, which is writing about your
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: experience getting it out in those fifteen to thirty minute sessions,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: they showed more self distance after journaling. And self distance
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: is actually it's a psychological term. It's a concept where
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: you are more detached emotionally from an event that you experienced,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: and that by being able to distance yourself from it.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: You're able to cope with it much easier, process it
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: better than when you're super all up in it and
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: it's overwhelming you. And they found that self distancing can
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: be helped along by journaling about the event. Yeah.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I mean it's sort of that time heals wounds things,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And I think the idea here is it can help
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: sort of speed up that process, speed up that time.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it helps you get things off your chest.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: It helps you clarify your thinking. And one other thing
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: that it really helps you do is see other people's perspectives.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: And I imagine you may be able to put stuff
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: down on paper in private that you might not even
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: tell a therapist that you think that you can be
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: completely open to you know.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, ideally that you are sharing that level of openness
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: with your with your journal diary. That's from what I
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: can tell. The more you're able to do that, the
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: healthier it could conceivably be. Although I don't know if
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: you said it or not, but Pennebaker says, maybe you
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: don't want to journal every day because that can actually
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: potentially make you ruminate more on negative stuff because you're talking.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Like you said that actually did. I there are several
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: truths in your life. There is the truth you tell
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: your therapist, there's the truth you tell your doctor, and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: then there's only one real truth, and that's the truth
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: that you tell yourself. Probably yeah, when no one else
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: knows anything, even the closest people in your life, I
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: think the truth you tell yourself is probably the truest thing.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: You can also delude yourself though, too.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Oh well no, no, that's a completely different thing.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Oh oh sorry I brought that up.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: No, you can lie to yourself. But uh, I think
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: that I don't know. That's just an opinion of mine,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: you know, sure, And that's why I think that journaling
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: very privately could be like a really there thing.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: For sure. It seems like, yeah, that's the thing when
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I said we were going to wait into BS, Like,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of people out there who have tried
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: to qualify this, quantify it. Hr people who are like,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: maybe we should get all the employees to journal every day.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: It's like this thing may work. So everybody's turned it
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: into a thing that you have to do, and if not,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: then you're not you're not trying to achieve your goals,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and you're you're not living your best life or whatever.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: It's it's just it's meant to be one of those
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: things that like, if it helps you, great, If it doesn't,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: move on, it doesn't. It doesn't have to be this
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: thing that everybody has to do and benefit from in
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: exactly the same way.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I have a fun small collection of two to
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: three journal entries from various points in my Life's nice
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: where I would say I'm going to start doing this, man,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: because I'd do something like this, or a teacher would
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: talk about it, and then all right, here we go,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: and a few days then I stopped doing. Yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's so easy to not do anymore.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I did have. I think the longest one I ever
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: kept was for one full quarter when we were in quarters.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Back then in college, I had a play writing class
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I took, and my playwriting teacher had us as part
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: of the class, so it wasn't optional to do what
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: he called a commonplace journal, and that was just not
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: even your thoughts and emotions, just more in the as
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: a writer might do, like things you notice and things
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that might inspire you in this in that commonplace. Then Okay,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: so I did that for a quarter, but I don't
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: think I have that one. That's my biggest, most robust one,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and it's lost to time.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Poor guy.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: There are all kinds of journals that have become popular
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: as far as like, oh, this person says this is
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: a very good way to do it. The artist way,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: a self help book from ninety two by Julia Cameron,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: talked about morning pages. So you just sort of and
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: this is based on the Jungian idea that you're ego
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: defense doesn't wake up until for forty five minutes after
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: you wake up.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I look that up, and I don't think that's
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: actually a thing that you never said.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, so did Julia Cameron, Like, I mean,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: it is a self help book, right, anyway, that's the idea,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: at least that sounds like it may or it may
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: not be true. But the whole idea is you do
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: this first thing in the morning, sort of stream of
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: consciousness style to get just sort of drain out your
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: brain of like stuff that might plague you throughout the
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: day later.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the point isn't to just write anything like inspirational
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: or good or where just to get it out like
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: you were saying, Yeah, that's a good example of what
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I was talking about with the BS, like does it
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: have to be based on a Jungian idea? And that
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: is exactly forty five minutes. It's just like, hey, this works,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: you guys should give it a try. Don't try to
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: write anything worth while. Just get out the crud that's
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: going to plague you for the rest of the day.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Why can't people present ideas like that anymore?
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, just say do it when you're sweepy. That
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: seems to work.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you got to bring young into this?
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, don't drag me into this just because you
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: use the word ego.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: We talked about gratitude journals. What are bullet journals?
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Theories are well, they were created by a digital designer
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: named right Carol, great digital designer name back in twenty thirteen,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: and they're much more real world focused, like to do lists, calendars.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: It seems like a life system exactly.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is in written form, and so
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: whatever you need to help you, like you're trying to
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: keep up with the meals you're eating for the week,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: or the exercise you're doing, or the chores you have
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: to do or whatever you have. These different journals all
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: within this kind of bullet journal, these different sections or
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: segments to it that are typically laid out over time
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: a week, a month or something like that, or by section,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: and people decorate them in very pretty ways.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's also can be though not literally just uh,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: things I have to get accomplished today, but like like
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: go to the store or go to this appointment, but
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: things you want to accomplish is in a holistic way,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: like today I'm gonna I'm gonna really work on either
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: gratitude or thankfulness or empathy or something like that.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Right, here's I got to check the box next to empathy,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I empathize today.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Check that sounded slightly cynical. Dream journals Yeah, well I
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: don't do those either, no.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: But so there are formal interpretation systems of dreams, like
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: if your tooth fall out, you're worried about your looks
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: or something like that. Right, those are clearly obviously just
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: totally wrong. But there is a usefulness to dream journals
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: in that it's it's very much like getting your thoughts
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: out with a with typical journaling. With dream journals, you're
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: recording the thoughts that you got out while you were
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: a dream before they you know, disappear, you know, in
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: that forty five minutes before your ego defenses go up, right.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: But that's that's kind of the point of dream journal,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: And you're almost visiting or you're recording these visits to
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: the other parts of your mind that you can't typically access,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: so you're just jotting down what happened, and it can
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: affect your waking life in ways. I read a New
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: York Times letter from somebody who suggested doing this, and
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: they were, like, it makes when I dream about somebody
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: in a certain way, when I see them the next time,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I noticed those qualities about them. So like the dreams,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: logging the dreams affects how they navigate waking life, which
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: sounds pretty neat.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I mean that sounds like the most fun one. Yeah,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: just for no other reason than to go back and
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: read about fun weird dreams years later. Exactly, have you
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: ever woken up, uh, have you ever been like mad
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: at you me in a dream and woken up a
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: little bit like feeling a little mad, even though that's
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: totally unfairing.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: No, not that specific thing, but I have been out
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: of works in many different ways from dreams, and it
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: takes a little while, because I mean, think about the
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: same neurochemicals are being released in your brain whether you're
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: awake or you're asleep while you're experiencing that, and yeah,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: if they happen to still be flooding your brain when
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: you wake up, you're still gonna be feeling that way,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Emily and I both had dreams where like one
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: of us did something to the other in sallity and
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you wake up and you know it's unreasonable, and you
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: try to shake up. You're like, I'm sorry, I'm just
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: a little mad at you for my dream, and then
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: we laugh and talk about how unfair that is.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: That happens to me in normal life too. With TV shows, like, uh,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: they'll go to commercial break, you know, when you're watching
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: regular TV h and I'll be like, why am I
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: so like tense right now or upset? And I'll realize
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: it's because I just watched the kid get kidnapped on
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Law and Order, and like that sensation is carried over
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: into the commercial break and now I'm suddenly paying attention
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: to it and wondering why I feel that way.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Uh, that's fun. We were in New York one time
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: and a similarly, we were we were leaving, like kind
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: of finishing up at our table, and the waiter came
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: over and says like, hey, you guys are about done right,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: because someone you know is waiting to be seated, like
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: in a really nice way. We're like, yeah, yeah, we're
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: getting out of here. You can go go ahead and
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: bring him over or whatever. And uh, it was the
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: actor from that TV show The Killing, the Billy Campbell.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: That didn't sound right, but maybe it is. I thought
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: he was like Swedish or something.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: There was an original Swedish version of The Killing.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Uh is that what I watched?
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know where the titles.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Billy Kimball's the other he is in that show. But
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: I was talking about Joel Kineman.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Is he the the congressman or the city councilman.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: No, he was. He is Swedish, actually Swedish American. He
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: he was the partner.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: That's Billy Campbell.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to get too involved here because
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I don't want to give anything away, but uh, Keneman
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: was for sure her partner.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I guess I only made a past
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: season two.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Anyway, it was him and it was his TV show
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: and he had again I don't want to give anyway,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: but he had just done he had been a bad
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: person in that week's episode, and I kind of scowled
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: and I was like you. I was like, I'm so
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: mad at you. And he was like, I'm sorry, bro.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: He was like everybody he said on the streets this
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: week has been so rough. He was like, I'm so sorry.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: And I was like, that's really kind of funny.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Actually, So you might be thinking of Peter Sarsgard, he
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: was in it.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: No, I mean I'm thinking about Joel Caky.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: So we're talking about the same person. I thought his
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: name was Billy Campbell. Billy Campbell was the or the
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: city councilman.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's older, he's like in his sixties, okay, and
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: he played he was the rocketeer.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that. I never saw that movie.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: It just looked creepy an art deco.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: But I mean, I mean cop partner.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know what you're talking about.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe Kinneman was the cop partner, right, Okay.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking about the same person. I just had
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: the name wrong. You had the name right. Is that
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: what you want to hear? Is that what you're holding
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: out for here.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not holding out for anything.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: You got anything else about journaling or diaries?
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Nah, Well, I think I speak for us all when
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: I say that we hope you find that quarter journal.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: What was it called? The what journal?
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: The commonplace note.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Common place notebook? What a great name. Yeah, it seems
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: like something that would be stitched together with like fabric
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: and twine. You know, there's like a mushroom on it.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sure, Chuck said, yeh.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Sure, everybody. That means it's time for a listener mail.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to call this things that we have recommended.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Did I read this? I don't think I did. I'll
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: read it again. Hey guys, my name is Evan Whitby
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: from Hendersonville, North Carolina. It's kind of a long one,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: but I'll just say that Evan really loves the show
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: and it's meant a lot to him through his life.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: In one of the biggest ways that it means a
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: lot is the recommendations movie recommendations that Evan has gotten
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: from us over the years. Sometimes it's a plug or
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: just comes up in conversation, but by this point I
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: trust your taste a lot, so I check most of
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: them out and then list a bunch of examples what
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: we do in the Shadows, Reservation Dogs, Larry Sanders Show,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Nate Bargatzi's stand up Eyes Wide Shut, just to name
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: a few that I particularly liked. And I just finished
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: watching both seasons of Dick Town, which was is John
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Hodgmanshow David David Reese's show. Yeah, and you were right
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: and that it's the perfect length to finish it all
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: in one sitting. And as a native North Carolinian who
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: has lived all around the state my whole life, I
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: found it particularly funny. Go wolf Pack. I look forward
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: to many more lessons and many more laughs thanks to
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: the whole team. One Love Evan.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. That is so much better than cheers, Evan.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you for that.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: If you want to be like Evan and say hey,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: I really like this thing you guys recommended, or conversely,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: you can say, hey, I really like this thing you
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: guys might not know about, so I want to recommend
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: it to you. We are always open for both of those.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: You can send it in an email via One Love
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.