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Our mill is working! · Specialty Matcha Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to the Specialty Matcha podcast.
0:03
My name is Ryan. This is my Co host on June.
0:05
Hello. Hello who also goes by Sam and
0:07
we're the Co founders of Sanko Matcha products.
0:09
Yeah, We launched this podcast to discuss a learning journey,
0:12
matcha share startup stories and interview experts.
0:15
In today's episode, we are going to share a major milestone that
0:19
we recently just hit and we are super excited.
0:23
And it's sponsored by Sanko Matcha Products, so to speak.
0:27
We try to keep this podcast as non commercial as we can, but we
0:30
also promise to tell startup stories.
0:33
So sometimes the missions are a big contradictory, but we will
0:36
do our best to be as objective and clear as possible when these
0:41
two things contradict each other.
0:42
We are hypocrites. We're hypocrites.
0:44
Indeed. So to zoom out and give everyone
0:46
a little bit of context that might not already know, we don't
0:49
just run a podcast, but we also have a Matcha company, Matcha
0:52
brand. So far we have smashingly
0:55
launched a single product so far that we ran a successful
0:58
Kickstarter campaign. The One Dimension Matcha
1:01
Whisking Bowl, which has been a giant success.
1:04
Obsidian. Commercially and product quality
1:07
wise. Yeah.
1:09
We've been really happy with all the feedback that we've gotten
1:12
from that product. And actually in retrospect, it
1:15
was really the perfect place to start the company for us because
1:19
really our original mission and vision was to make matcha
1:23
milling and the ability to mill matcha fresh anywhere and
1:26
everywhere. And that is a very, very tricky
1:29
engineering problem. So we we started simple and have
1:33
gotten progressively more complicated.
1:35
Well, even the bold was not that simple either.
1:37
That's true. Even the most simple products
1:40
are quite sophisticated. Yeah, but it really got us to
1:43
end up talking to people in the industry with shared vision and
1:47
standard really to help us understand what exactly do
1:52
people like and do people want or what what exactly do people
1:56
need. Exactly.
1:57
And to better understand like what are the industry problems
2:00
and where and how can we add value as a company creating
2:03
matcha tools. You see this rich ecosystem in
2:06
coffee and you see the success of third wave coffee, tea
2:09
coffee. They didn't have to invent the
2:11
espresso machine, they didn't have to invent coffee grinders,
2:15
they didn't have to invent pour overs or gooseneck cattles.
2:18
All of this infrastructure already existed.
2:20
But in the case of Matcha, yes, it exists, but it really only
2:23
exists within this very traditional.
2:26
Yeah, it served a very different purpose, yes.
2:29
For a very different audience and that being tea ceremony of
2:32
course. So we wanted to start fresh as a
2:34
company and act or think about who are we steward of, who are
2:40
we serving, who do we want to serve?
2:42
And our goal is to serve the idea of matcha as a specialty
2:46
product, consumers themselves and the businesses that service
2:51
the consumers that are doing this.
2:53
Matcha consumption on the global stage of the Japanese audience
2:56
is pretty well taken care of, but we realized that there were
2:59
some real problems to be solved for matcha within the craft of
3:04
creating matcha and the rest of the world.
3:06
Yes, indeed. And one of the key challenge or
3:10
I would say missing components of matcha making is matcha
3:14
grinding. And that has been for hundreds
3:17
of years being centralized and perfected in Japan.
3:21
But now much now that much of serving a global audience,
3:24
Imagine like all of the coffee being centrally grind in
3:27
Ethiopia. Yeah, it's just very, you know,
3:30
strange kind of status quo that we are living today.
3:33
And then also imagine that all of the blends and all of the
3:36
products and all of the flavor profile outcomes and quality is
3:40
being defined by old Ethiopian men when you know, it's a
3:45
product consumed by people of all ages, genders, cultures,
3:50
races that might have very different preferences.
3:53
Yes, indeed. And in the case of matcha, you
3:56
know, it's, you know, Japan and it has been historically serving
4:00
a very, very narrowed and well defined audience.
4:03
But nowadays we are seeing matcha being consumed globally
4:07
every corners of the world in every kind of context.
4:10
So that's a very interesting, you know, it was a dynamic
4:14
between the market and the producers.
4:17
Yeah, and it's interesting. The Japanese have this concept
4:21
of Kaizen. A lot of people who, like, read
4:23
too many corporate books or something will come across the
4:26
word Kaizen, which means continuous improvement.
4:29
And it's one of the reasons why Japanese manufacturing is so
4:32
good. But the spirit of Kaizen really
4:34
lives in many of the different crafts and arts related to
4:38
Japanese tea ceremony or Japanese culture in general.
4:41
But I mean, you are do see, you know, the Japanese tea industry
4:44
adapting to the current market, but you know, it's at a very
4:48
different pace and the market is just evolving and expanding so
4:53
fast. That is probably unfathomable
4:56
for, you know, the Japanese. All of these family owned
5:00
businesses that have exist for hundreds of years.
5:02
They're not just quite used to dealing with this kind of
5:06
change. Yeah, but it's also like the
5:08
means of Kaizen, right? Continuous improvement in
5:11
service to what? Yeah, yeah.
5:13
Right. So like if there's Japanese tea
5:15
competitions, if your goal is to become quote UN quote, the
5:18
number one Japanese tea farmer because you won the competition,
5:21
right? That's like quote UN quote, a
5:22
fitness function. That's something that you're
5:24
optimizing around or you're optimizing around the opinion of
5:28
people who hold soft power like the Iyamoto.
5:32
So it's a very different type of innovation and feedback
5:36
improvement cycle where perfection is headed in a very
5:42
centralized and well controlled direction.
5:45
Yeah, it's a bottom up optimization.
5:48
No, it's a top down optimization.
5:51
From bottom, Well, depends on how you, how do you define it,
5:54
But you know, the, the subject of what you're being, what you
6:00
are optimizing for is someone you know for the top is someone
6:04
from the top. Whereas you know, a lot of these
6:07
consumer markets that you see elsewhere like coffee, like
6:10
wine, you're optimizing for, you know, a more general audience
6:15
that doesn't necessarily have a higher power than you or a
6:19
higher social status than you, which is very much the case that
6:23
the still very much of life in Japan nowadays.
6:26
So you have these like different spirits of innovation, right?
6:29
You can have a a continuous perfection of a craft through
6:33
marginal improvement and in use of new technologies and getting
6:37
very tight, tight feedback loops with people who have a lot of
6:41
authority, hard or soft power. Creating smaller incremental
6:45
improvements is what you see in all sorts of things.
6:48
Like we were just in Kyoto. And if you go to the Roku
6:50
Museum, you can see each generation of Roku Potter do
6:54
their innovation, do their artistic style, and innovations
6:57
can be aesthetic too, but it is very slow incremental change.
7:01
And you don't really see failure being celebrated.
7:04
So you have this highly insular, highly tight feedback loop
7:08
optimizing for these types of improvements, innovation cycles.
7:15
Or you can let 1000 flowers bloom.
7:18
It's a lot more failure. It's a lot more public failure,
7:22
but you can get it's a very different type of optimization
7:25
cycle that is kind of inherently not Japanese.
7:29
Like the idea. I think about all of like the
7:31
amateur Konsugi people who got into it over COVID, right?
7:35
Like there's probably some someone in Japan thinking, oh,
7:38
these guys have no clue what they're doing.
7:41
I like, maybe that's true, but it's really kind of developing
7:45
its own culture outside of that sphere.
7:48
Yeah, it's essentially new culture building.
7:51
Yeah. It's a subculture.
7:53
It's a subculture or it's a new culture, like or matcha serve as
7:57
one element in a culture, or in many cultures actually.
8:01
It was born in China and it served its cultural element in
8:06
Doha in tea competitions or as tributi to the emperor for, you
8:10
know, many hundreds, many 100 years.
8:11
And then it brought to Japan and also served as one cultural
8:16
element in tea ceremony, serving the feudal Lords, the monarchs,
8:19
you know, offer as a excuse, so to speak, for the warnors
8:23
together in peace and have discussions without drawing
8:26
sword to each other. So, you know, it's it's of
8:31
course culture related and it should not be bound by one
8:36
culture as it has it. So like macho really served
8:41
multiple roles in different culture.
8:44
It has never been really bounded by one culture or 1 you know,
8:51
ceremonial context, a in nature, a very freed item that's
8:57
perfectly good for its own. Free Spirit.
9:00
It has a free spirit inside of it.
9:02
And now we are seeing much of being consumed and enjoyed and
9:06
celebrated by a much larger audience globally.
9:09
It has, you know, transcend China.
9:11
Transcend Japan, transcend East Asia.
9:14
It has entered into, you know, many corners in the world.
9:18
I think it there's no way to, you know, articulate the the the
9:23
reason that you know, macho should be belong to a certain
9:26
consumption scenario or there's one certain or one correct
9:30
quote, quote, quote UN quote, correct way of making matcha.
9:34
Yeah, And I mean, these industries go through adoption
9:38
and innovation cycles. When Mota Macha got first
9:42
introduced to Japan by Etsai, I mean, I'm sure the Chinese were
9:46
looking across thinking, wow, these guys have no idea what
9:48
they're doing. This is like, this is not the
9:50
proper way of doing it, right? And then there's like maturity
9:54
cycles where these cultures develop and you have these
9:57
innovation cycles. They can be aesthetic, they can
10:00
be functional, They can be all sorts of different things.
10:03
And there's some fitness function for that innovation
10:05
cycle. And honest to God, I bet
10:07
Japanese matcha, you know, just from a flavor point of view,
10:11
tastes better than Chinese matcha.
10:13
Chinese more Cha backing stone dynasty because you've no shape
10:16
cultivation and all of those optimization to make this
10:19
product taste better and more nutritious.
10:22
So although they probably don't know it was making it more
10:24
nutritious, it certainly make it taste better.
10:27
There's some functional benefits, more of theanine.
10:29
Yeah, maybe it just made them feel great.
10:31
But but you know, like all of these innovations, all of these
10:35
cultural or local adaptation for, you know, at the time to
10:40
them and maybe also in the future improvements.
10:43
And they should all be celebrated because they are
10:46
serving for it. If they're baked, they are being
10:49
made and they are being innovative for for the purpose,
10:52
for the intention of creating a better product.
10:56
And within the context of Japanese culture and Japanese
10:59
arts, that tight feedback loop, which is very top down and
11:03
authoritative, where there's people with a lot of power, kind
11:06
of like the patron system, patron of the arts for like
11:09
during the Renaissance or even before then, where like the
11:13
Catholic Church was doing the sponsoring of the art in the art
11:16
generation, very top down. Well, meritocracy, you know,
11:20
there are a lot of merits about it, but you know, at the same
11:23
time there are a lot of limitations too.
11:25
A lot of limitations and what's interesting is Matcha is growing
11:30
and growing up to become a much more global product, global
11:32
beverage and turning into its own culture shared by many
11:35
different nations and many different peoples.
11:38
It's the ideas are opening up a little bit about how these
11:42
innovation cycles, what form they should take place now that
11:47
they're the matcha is living in spheres that are outside where
11:52
it has been in its last cycle, being within a traditional
11:56
Japanese society. And now we are definitely going
11:59
to see quote UN quote 1000 flowers bloom.
12:01
Yeah, well, it's, I think this is a great sign.
12:04
Like it. It's a sign of matcha being very
12:07
much alive, not just being a cultural element enshrined in a
12:12
gallery or a museum. Yeah, oh, absolutely.
12:16
It needs to remain a living art and to change and breathe.
12:19
And there is that change within Japanese tea ceremony.
12:21
To be perfectly clear, there are some really staunch conservative
12:24
people in Japanese tea ceremony that don't think much should be
12:27
changed. But actually a lot of the
12:29
practitioners do see it as vitally important.
12:32
But the fitness function for that change and who it is
12:34
optimizing for is definitely not the matcha Gurley in California
12:38
on TikTok or someone in metro Bangkok or someone in the Middle
12:43
East or in Latin America, right? Like it's or in Europe, like
12:47
these are very these places where we're seeing matcha boom
12:50
and develop new cultures. Who's creating things for them?
12:54
Yeah. Where are those innovation
12:55
cycles? That's a very interesting
12:58
question and that's honestly one of our driving impetus to create
13:03
a infrastructure to enable people the capacity of making
13:07
innovations. Yes, so we've seen the craft of
13:11
creating a matcha beverage spread all over the world,
13:14
right? It's no longer on it to Tommy
13:15
Matt in Seiza with a bamboo chasa and whisking a bowl in
13:20
this very ceremonial ritual anymore, right?
13:22
It's been adapted. It's been adapted into cafes in
13:26
the form of matcha latte. You even see some cafes in New
13:29
York and in LA serving koicha or lucicha, right?
13:33
That I mean, that's a little unthinkable when you think about
13:35
this on larger timescale horizons.
13:38
Not only are there people doing it crazy enough to have started
13:41
that trend, but there are people who, once that their preferences
13:46
have literally changed, move from awareness that matcha
13:49
exists to koicha. That's a far like consumer
13:53
journey to go and to really develop a preference for that.
13:56
And the fact that that exists now is just an insane thing to
14:00
me. Yep Yep, and insane thing to the
14:03
Japanese people too. Koi Chao was a form of feed
14:06
though back in the days were, you know, only be able to be
14:09
enjoyed by the very few in the society.
14:12
Now it's so accessible by everybody.
14:15
So the craft has of beverage preparation has really spread
14:18
everywhere, but there's a lot more to what's driving these
14:22
flavor profile outcomes these products than just taking matcha
14:26
powder and preparing it into some final outcome that a
14:30
consumer's going to to enjoy. And there's a lot more that's
14:32
driving the flavor of these products further down the the
14:36
value chain or the value stream supply chain, so to speak.
14:40
And one of them is just access to a fresh ground product.
14:43
This boom of matcha is so new that these supply chains haven't
14:49
had time to adapt yet to deliver people fresh product.
14:52
Freshness in matcha in Japan is not really a huge problem
14:56
because it's all set up with hyperlocal supply chains.
15:00
And like the the availability of probably two to three month old
15:04
matcha is pretty ubiquitous because people are also moving
15:07
through it and consuming it as well.
15:08
But that is just not the case for the rest of the world.
15:11
And something that we realize, the more that we learn, the more
15:13
that we realized, basically, this might be a bit of a
15:16
controversial statement, but the entire world is drinking stale
15:19
matcha for the most part. Yeah, that's very true.
15:23
Like, it's like the coffee example that we, you know, you
15:28
know, talked about previously, You know, like now the status
15:31
quo is everything is getting centrally milled in Japan and
15:34
gets centrally packed in Japan and gets shipped out into every
15:38
corners of the world. And matcha as a powder is just
15:43
not a form of product that's optimized for long shipping and
15:48
long logistic abusement. Or sitting in a warehouse in an
15:52
Amazon warehouse waiting to be purchased.
15:55
There's no humidity control, no temperature control, it's
15:58
literally getting second roasted.
16:01
And it's actually really unfortunate for small business
16:03
owners because typically when you're buying matcha powder to
16:05
repackage and sell the MLQ, the minimum order quantities are
16:09
quite large. Even for us, Like if we decided
16:12
we wanted to sell matcha powder, we'd have to commit to buying
16:14
like 20 kilos. Probably just a lot of big
16:17
commitment for someone who literally cannot forecast how
16:20
quickly they're going to move through it unless you're a super
16:23
influencer and you sell out in three days.
16:25
This inventory problem is a very tricky one for a lot of people,
16:29
building small businesses all over the world on the frontiers
16:34
of spreading matcha and the idea of drinking it and the idea of
16:37
it as a specialty product like a fine food.
16:39
So something that all of this awareness has done, now that,
16:42
you know, a lot of people know that matcha exists, people
16:45
become inherently curious about like, is all matcha the same?
16:50
Why is this one more expensive than this one?
16:52
Why does it taste better? Why is my yellow and yours is
16:55
green? But really, from even a taste
16:58
point of view, you know, a stale matcha just tastes infinitely
17:02
worse, you know, worse at best than a fresh 1.
17:07
You know, from from a flavor point of view and also from a
17:09
nutrition point of view. Absolutely.
17:12
And color as well. Freshness and product quality
17:15
are heavily intertwined. So we set out to help solve this
17:20
problem and we first started with the observation that people
17:23
already recognized the same problem.
17:25
People were importing what are called Ishiyusus or these
17:28
traditional stone mills to mill matcha fresh all over the world.
17:31
And we started talking with people that were owning and
17:33
operating them. And we are very grateful to
17:36
everyone that was willing to share knowledge with us and to
17:39
really understand what is going on inside of these machines that
17:42
make such a delicious product. And and then to give us the
17:46
fundamentals to think, OK, how can we engineer a solution that
17:49
might be a little more scalable than sending around, you know,
17:53
50kg of granite all over the world that can only manufacture
17:57
A matcha at about 30 to 40 grams an hour, which is incredibly
18:01
slow. Yeah.
18:02
Well, traditionally all of the matcha are being milled by a,
18:06
you know, machine or a device called Ishiyusu, which is a
18:11
stone mill. It's made out of soft granite in
18:13
Japan and these machines, these machines, these devices produce
18:19
a very unique powder form that makes matcha you just taste
18:23
better and suspend batter in liquid.
18:24
Whereas nowadays you see a lot of these more industrial
18:28
production using ball mills or you know, jet mills to also make
18:32
matcha at a very fine particle size.
18:35
They, they just do not necessarily have a very, you
18:38
know, a very similar kind of the particle structure than, you
18:43
know, matcha coming out from issues.
18:44
And and what we want to do is trying to mimic the condition
18:48
and the powder quality that a traditional issue user can
18:53
produce. And very thankfully, in our last
18:56
job, we were working at an AI company at the kind of the
18:59
intersection of AI methods with human sensory perception or the
19:03
perception of taste and consumer preference and product
19:06
development. So we had a lot of friends who
19:08
were food scientists in the food industry, and we had worked
19:11
pretty heavily in product development at our last company.
19:13
So our next phone call was to some friends and food science to
19:17
say, OK, we need particles that are 5 to 15 microns.
19:20
It can't heat up that much. Is it theoretically possible,
19:24
you think, to mechanically create a device that can go
19:27
faster, but just leveraging some different technologies such as
19:31
heat management, heat sinks, heat cooling systems, ceramic
19:35
millstones, controlled compression, like is this
19:37
possible? And they said yes enough times
19:40
that we felt confident. OK, this is worth prototyping.
19:44
Yeah, worth trying. And you know, for for I would
19:48
say the first six months we were really not sure that are we you
19:54
know, necessarily on the right path or did our friend really
19:58
cheer us up and over optimize for a kind of an illusional
20:03
goal? You know, by 6 months we had
20:06
something moving and then after another year of development we
20:12
finally have something that actually tasted.
20:14
Yeah, and I'll, I'll share a little story that might be a
20:17
little embarrassing for us, but the very first time the machine
20:21
turned on, we were, we were waiting like, oh, like, where's
20:24
the tea? Where's the matcha?
20:25
There's matcha in this hopper. We have a little feeding post.
20:29
Maybe the feeding post isn't working.
20:31
Maybe things are getting stuck. Where is this T?
20:33
Why is nothing coming out? Turns out it was right wired the
20:36
wrong way and it was spinning in the opposite direction.
20:39
Real bozo explosion there. Oh, we you know.
20:43
Come a long way. We have come.
20:45
We have come a long way, and all of the success were lessons
20:48
learned from failures. Oh yes.
20:50
We got so good at figuring out what didn't work that we were
20:54
basically able to like get some attribution of like if we tweak
20:59
this then this will happen, or if we tweak that then this will.
21:02
Happen or if the machine is making some noises.
21:05
Probably should stop. Should stop or we know probably
21:08
something is wrong with the plate or the belt.
21:10
Slowly getting into AI would say empirical expert.
21:14
I'm not familiar by, you know, just tweaking and, you know,
21:18
playing with this machine so much.
21:21
So if we zoom out again one more time about like why matcha
21:25
should be a fresh ground product.
21:27
If we say that it goes through all the supply chain abuse and
21:31
you have degradation of antioxidants, 40% of the EGCG,
21:34
one of the primary antioxidants would degrade over two months
21:38
and ideal storage conditions as well as you have chlorophyll
21:41
degradation and oxidation and of course not to even mention the
21:44
taste and will completely change.
21:46
Why is that not the case if you're shipping around tensha or
21:49
unground matcha? Surface area of Tensha is just
21:53
so much smaller than Matcha that making it, you know, so much
21:57
more resistant to oxidation when you're talking about shipping it
22:00
in a seal container and not to mention about the, you know,
22:04
customer clearance in import export difficulties between
22:07
tensha and matcha. Yeah, loose safety versus
22:09
powder. Yeah, You end up, we'll be going
22:13
through a very different channel, you know, shipping
22:16
these two items. I still remember back in our
22:18
product development days, I guess it's about 7:00 or eight
22:21
years ago, we were working on a powdered beverage product and it
22:24
was being, it was getting imported, sent to us, but
22:27
imported from another country and it got so stuck in
22:30
clearance. We had to drive like one hour to
22:33
deep Jersey. We were living in New York at
22:35
the time. I remember that go.
22:36
To some random warehouse like hey we're here to pick up this
22:41
powder. Should be about 10 KGS.
22:44
Well, very gladly, those powders were not white color.
22:47
Actually, they were. Oh, they were OK.
22:49
That's why we had to go all the way there when I was dealing
22:52
with some of the sample shipping in China.
22:56
Like I remember our warehouse partner actually asked me
22:59
specifically if the powders are white.
23:02
If so, then you have to go through a very different, they
23:04
call it the Huagong, like the chemical engineering special
23:08
channel for exportation. Yeah.
23:09
Well, good thing much is not. Three times more.
23:13
Yeah. Ordinary channel, so a good
23:15
thing you know matcha has a color.
23:17
But yeah, there's just a surface area explosion.
23:21
I mean, I see if you look at a tensha leaf, which should be
23:25
about 4mm by 4mm, so like pretty big that is getting pulverized
23:30
so many times it gets subdivided that each matcha particle should
23:35
be about 5 to 15 microns in size.
23:38
And to put that into perspective, it is 10 times
23:41
smaller than a fine grind of espresso, order of magnitude
23:45
smaller than espresso grinds, and it is below the visual
23:49
threshold. The naked unaided eye cannot
23:52
tell the difference between 25TO15 Micron particles and the
23:56
visual threshold is about 30 to 40 microns.
23:59
So these particles are really small.
24:02
And because you have a surface area explosion, you have
24:05
volatile loss, it's susceptible to oxidation.
24:07
You have degradation of chlorophyll.
24:09
When chlorophyll degrades, it goes from green into a yellow
24:12
brownish substance is one of its it's oxidative components, which
24:16
also has the negative advantage of tasting bitter, which is one
24:20
reason why one of the flavor transformation that happens from
24:24
a chemistry perspective as matcha degrades.
24:27
So like it is actually arguable that fresh ground matcha, fresh
24:32
grinding matcha is more important in matcha than it is
24:35
in the case of coffee because there's just so much more
24:38
surface area exposed. And like people spend a fortune
24:41
on their coffee setups, getting ever better coffee grounds,
24:45
coffee sized particle sizes and distributions, etcetera,
24:48
etcetera. Yeah.
24:50
And, you know, like by the end of the day, after all those
24:53
oxidation, after all those, you know, humidity infiltrations,
24:58
you are going to have a inferior product.
25:00
It's just not going to taste the same.
25:02
Now having been in Japan, handpicking tea, watching tea,
25:06
processing the amount of F. It's painful.
25:09
That goes into creating matcha or tensha.
25:13
Even unground matcha is unfathomable it.
25:15
Hurts my soul just thinking about all of those efforts when
25:20
into a can of matcha just to let it being sit under the tropical
25:24
sun in a random warehouse getting slowly getting expired.
25:29
It's really bad. Even when it follows the cold
25:32
chain like these, chemical transformations still happen.
25:36
And not to mention how environmentally unfriendly it
25:39
would be to maintain product quality because even as the
25:44
moment you mill matcha, it should really stay refrigerated
25:46
as long as possible and treated like a fresh food.
25:49
So I mean, if you really care about the environment, this in
25:52
theory should really help improve product quality because
25:55
it really will lower the carbon foot footprint of the supply
25:58
chain if you can move that last manufacturing step much closer
26:01
to the consumer. And just saving tons of
26:04
nutritions. Think about the number of metric
26:07
tons of antioxidants that just wasted, vanished, vanished on
26:12
the Earth because it's going stale.
26:14
Yeah, it's, it's, it's criminal. Well, it's excusable.
26:18
There's no way to do it right. You can import an Ishuusu and
26:20
it's going to cost $10,000. Or you have to buy a really
26:23
industrial piece of equipment to mill it fresh in your country.
26:26
It's very understandable. That's true that it's that
26:29
there's a serious lack of infrastructure because of this
26:33
global demand. You know, back in the days they
26:35
don't need this infrastructure to be available because most of
26:38
March are consumed domestically. And locally.
26:41
And locally. So this is really a modern,
26:46
modern problem getting, you know, exploded or magnified upon
26:52
a very legacy infrastructure. Oh, absolutely.
26:55
So yeah, that's that's the primary reason why we think this
26:59
is an incredible important problem to solve.
27:01
And not to mention the fact that once you move that step much
27:04
closer to the consumer, the craft of not only creating the
27:08
beverage can become hyper localized, but the craft of
27:11
creating the matcha powder can become more localized.
27:15
Where a lot of cafes, coffee companies, new matcha companies,
27:19
new specialty companies can exist buying tensha the same way
27:24
that you would buy coffee beans from all over the world and
27:28
creating local blends. And no one knows consumers like
27:32
the people who are on the ground serving those people.
27:35
And if we talk about like creating things in service to
27:38
the customer, in service to the people who are actually doing
27:42
the consumption of the thing, in this case matcha, we want a
27:47
diverse group of people serving them.
27:49
We want to see people who come from all walks of life to see
27:54
themselves represented in these brands.
27:58
Yeah, macho attention blending is a exceptionally tricky 1
28:02
because it has been historically controlled by this very
28:06
mysterious group of people called chashi in Japan.
28:10
It's so mysterious, not only to the outsiders like you and I,
28:15
but also even to the Japanese people domestically, like when
28:18
we ask questions to them about, you know what, what do you note
28:23
about all these chashi? 'S itchy blenders.
28:25
They do not know very much about.
28:27
They know their existence. They know their quote UN quote
28:29
very skilled. Yeah, which they they, they
28:33
probably are. Most likely are definitely.
28:35
Definitely are. Yeah, like the.
28:37
Craft of blending is largely unknown.
28:40
Very, you know, being gated and obscured away from, you know,
28:44
all of the consumers, which is a very interesting phenomena.
28:48
You know, there are a lot of, you know, historical historical
28:51
reasons and connotations went into that installation to which
28:54
that we are probably not going to talk about it in this
28:56
episode. But, you know, we we very much
28:59
want to see a world of that part of art being democratized too.
29:05
And really really available and accessible to anyone.
29:10
Anyone should be able to acquire the skill.
29:13
Doesn't mean everyone is going to be good.
29:15
At good at. Anyone should be.
29:16
And like, I mean, I'm going to critique Japanese society a
29:19
little bit right now, but oh. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
29:22
Seriously, I mean have a tattoo that you can visibly see?
29:25
Try becoming a chashi. You won't.
29:27
There's this 0%. Well, yeah, you can't even go to
29:30
your own sand. A hot spring Try.
29:33
Being openly gay, do you think you're ever going to like, get
29:36
an in on what's going on to develop the skill to become a
29:40
chashi? How about a woman?
29:41
Have you ever heard of a woman ever being a part of the craft
29:45
of tea blending? Right?
29:46
Like the barriers to entry are highly discriminatory.
29:50
Yeah, it's very historical, but you know, also very true that
29:56
there are a lot of, I would say, legacy obstacles that still very
30:01
much exist in the world of matcha in Japan.
30:04
Because, you know, Japan, the whole Society of Japan, still
30:07
live in that part of the legacy too, still.
30:10
Yeah. And it really is a hamper on
30:12
growth. You're just you have to kind of
30:15
be born into it and know the right people to even get into
30:18
the right spheres to acquire the knowledge and the context to
30:22
bring these products to life. And it is doing Matcha a
30:26
horrible disservice for the new generation of global matcha
30:31
consumers. This is very interesting because
30:33
that part of the social Rd. is so intertwined with the Japanese
30:38
society that it's very difficult for them to be able to adapt
30:43
into this new macho drinking culture outside of it's
30:47
essentially 2 cultures clashing into each other so to speak.
30:52
And the clash I wouldn't necessarily think is a bad
30:56
thing. I think that you know, this
30:58
fusion and clash of different cultures and different ideas of
31:01
trying to make a better product just because of different
31:06
culture or different standards, so to speak.
31:08
I think we generate something very interesting and beautiful
31:11
in the future. Yeah, I think so.
31:14
And I really like the idea of kind of opening up this craft to
31:18
a more diverse group. Yeah, yeah.
31:20
Because like both culture do care about matcha and they do
31:24
want to make a better product. You know, it's just serving very
31:28
different audiences or serving very different goals.
31:31
Yeah, historically and it's just extremely gate kept.
31:34
The motivations are a bit of a mystery.
31:36
It is very opaque how intentional it is.
31:40
Why it's that opaque? People will say a lot of it's
31:43
like that blending and milling is proprietary, but it's we, no
31:47
one knows. Honestly.
31:49
Honestly, we know so little about Hashi that we don't even
31:52
know what to talk. About and it's not even for a
31:55
lack of trying. We've interviewed a lot of
31:57
experts on this podcast. We've interviewed a lot of
31:59
people in Japan working in the Japanese tea industry.
32:03
It is very unclear what's going on.
32:05
Some are even Japanese too. It's really, really, really
32:08
hard. So hopefully we didn't make any
32:10
enemies with that. But you know, Japan and Japanese
32:13
society and these traditional crafts do not come without their
32:16
negative benefits, and especially when you impose sort
32:19
of modern morality and expectations and moral lens onto
32:24
this very traditional culture that is historically very slow
32:27
to change. So we do think this culture is
32:30
important. It needs to be preserved.
32:32
But I also think for specialty matcha to exist and to survive
32:37
and to thrive in the rest of the world where we're creating new
32:43
optimization cycles and innovation cycles, creating
32:45
better tasting products or brands that are reflective of
32:49
new and different values. A new culture is going to have
32:53
to be formed around create the idea of the craft of creating
32:59
matcha powder. And that needs to live in a much
33:02
more diverse set of hands. And that's actually where this
33:04
podcast comes in. We are all about spreading the
33:08
awareness of matcha as a specialty product and how it can
33:11
be appreciated for for the agricultural product that it is
33:14
and for the flavors and expressions it can bring and for
33:17
all the richness and all of the things that surround and touch
33:21
matcha, culturally speaking. But we're probably all going to
33:26
have to help each other when we have these mills out into the
33:29
world. In particular, with these beta
33:31
program, we cannot give you guidance on how to achieve a
33:37
certain flavor profile outcome from certain tensha that you
33:40
buy. Yeah, we are as new as you do.
33:43
We cannot tell you exactly what speed you should run to get a
33:47
certain level of bitterness. We cannot tell you what
33:50
compression is going to yield the best matcha latte when
33:54
you're milling this cultivar or that cultivar.
33:57
But what we are we are able to do is provide you variable RPM
34:02
or rotation and variable compression that you can tweak.
34:06
We are giving you the opportunity, the freedom of
34:09
tweaking out of these parameters, but not necessarily
34:12
offering you a guidance on what is the best solution for a
34:17
certain goal. We are, you know, as much of A
34:21
newcomer as you are and I think, you know, we've very much see
34:24
you as our partner in this very interesting and adventurous
34:28
journey. So we are actively looking for
34:31
beta testers, and we have a lot already as well.
34:33
We want to get to a total of 15 people, and we're going to
34:37
release the details of this beta testing program soon.
34:41
But our goal with this beta testing community is to create
34:45
partners, intellectual partners, maybe even sourcing partners.
34:49
We can all help each other source tin cha and discover like
34:53
how flavor transformations happen, what works best with
34:56
this type of alternative milk and what works best if you're
34:59
doing an Americano versus a Koi cha for different milling
35:02
parameters. And collectively learn together
35:05
to create our own feedback loops to understand the mechanisms of
35:10
these flavor transformations so that we can create things that
35:14
consumers in every corner of the earth where people are doing
35:18
this type of craft will have access to it.
35:21
And this is not to hate on the craft of the highest end matcha
35:25
that exists in Japan. We think it's additive.
35:28
Even getting to the tencha phase of matcha production requires
35:33
such insane and extreme craft. It's hard to wrap your mind
35:38
around. So you know, we want to form
35:40
this community where we can all learn from each other.
35:43
Yeah, absolutely. You know, this mill is really
35:46
the first component of a very large portfolio that we want to
35:50
accomplish in the future and 1st footstep into this very complex
35:55
world that we want to essentially build a new culture
35:59
upon. A new culture that can be shared
36:02
by each other globally. Every corners of the world that
36:05
doesn't necessarily be defined by a certain small groups
36:09
telling you what to do. We want to really create an
36:12
infrastructure to offer the liberty for everyone to be able
36:16
to explore this very burdened and fresh world themselves.
36:19
Yeah. And there's so many interesting
36:21
stories and learnings to like. Even in our experiments in the
36:25
past few days, we were doing different speeds with the mill,
36:29
same compression, different speed.
36:31
The rate of matcha being produced from the 15 RPM to 20
36:38
to 32 RPM was about double the efficiency.
36:41
We got double the amount of powder in a given amount of
36:44
time, The color identical, the taste very different.
36:49
Very different, yeah. Color is actually a really
36:52
horrible indicator sometime about what a product is going to
36:55
taste like. Well, if it's fresh enough, you
36:57
know and also like the texture too is a pretty, pretty similar,
37:01
but there's something happened along the way that we don't know
37:06
for certain, but I think it probably probably will be
37:08
related to the heat being generated the.
37:11
Shearing force or the shearing? Force.
37:13
Yeah, so. In the heat.
37:15
Yeah, so, but we don't know well.
37:17
Weirdly enough, we open the mill every time we do it.
37:20
After each of these settings, from 15 RPM to 32 RPM, we take a
37:25
thermometer. We look at it exactly the same.
37:28
Yeah, it's pretty, pretty similar.
37:30
So it's very interesting. Because if you imagine rubbing
37:34
your hands together back and forth, imagine your hands are
37:36
cold and you try to warm them up, back and forth, back and
37:38
forth, your hands will get hot. But the moment that you stop
37:41
rubbing that your hands together, they kind of come back
37:44
to that temperature again. So similar things going on where
37:47
there is some immediate heat generation and then dissipation.
37:51
Now that being said, if your hands are already warm and
37:53
you're rubbing them together way too fast, you're going to
37:56
probably burn yourself. So we do have heat sinks that
37:59
are actively pulling tons of heat that are controllable out
38:02
of this machine and it is able to stabilize, but we still
38:06
cannot control the amount of shearing force because that's
38:09
just a function of physics. You can't fight it when you have
38:11
that much compression and you're going that fast, that's just the
38:14
shearing force and the amount of energy that's going to be
38:17
created there. And the color is the same, the
38:19
texture is the same, the efficiency is double, but it's a
38:22
much more structured better and a stringent matcha.
38:25
It's much more intense. Actually, it's probably perfect
38:27
for a latte. The ones that run really slow at
38:30
15 RPM where we're milling, I'd say about .6 to .7g of matcha a
38:36
minute. So about as fast as an ishiyusu,
38:38
a little faster in some cases. Super sweet.
38:41
Yeah, very little bitterness. Super umami.
38:45
And it was like not even a very good tension to begin with.
38:49
It was some pretty mid tension that we put in as a experiment.
38:52
The amount of quality increased because we also tried the, you
38:57
know, already Milt matcha from the same tension from the, the,
39:01
the, the, the vendors that we end up procuring the samples
39:04
from like night and date difference.
39:06
It's it's pretty interesting. And not to mention we end up
39:09
putting some pretty high quality tension into the machine and it
39:12
tastes phenomenal. Yeah, I mean, it was still very
39:14
high quality tension, but it definitely wasn't like tazumi
39:18
from a rare cultivar from a famous producer.
39:21
Yeah, of course. Like especially nowadays those
39:24
kind of tension are not purchasable.
39:26
#Matcha shortage. Yeah.
39:29
But well, good news to a lot of, you know the Tensha being more
39:35
on the mass produced side of manufacture, we can really use
39:38
this machine or maybe not just this machine, but all of the
39:41
machine that will be available in the future, but be able to
39:44
achieve a very high quality fresh ground capacity.
39:48
Good news, you can actually taste the difference.
39:51
Thank God. Well, I mean, like, we're by no
39:54
means trying to be a replacement of Ishiyusu, but you know, we
39:57
really want to bring the idea of fresh milling to life.
40:01
And you know, there are also obviously good fresh milling and
40:05
bad fresh mill and we have been really trying our best to try to
40:09
hit. The the powder finest and also
40:12
the flavor at the, you know, best case results that we can
40:15
get, Yeah. But we by no means want to even
40:18
define what is best. We can tell you what it tastes
40:20
like, but you know, it also depends on how you use this
40:24
stuff. It's almost like cooking.
40:26
You can develop attention on milling recipe.
40:29
Yeah, it's very contextual. Like 1 matcha is probably good
40:35
for a susha, but not necessarily good for a latte.
40:38
Or you know, 1 matcha can perfectly be very drinkable in a
40:41
latte, but you know, it doesn't necessarily be taste, you know,
40:45
be tasty in the wusucha kind of scenario.
40:47
Or some cultivars might be better when you rest it a little
40:50
bit after milling than not. Something that we've heard from
40:53
people that operate Ishi Usus is that some cultivars when they
40:56
put it through, it actually is very intense, very grassy when
40:59
it first comes out, but you let it rest the day 2-3 days, then
41:03
that's when the everything kind of balances out and it peaks.
41:07
Of course you can't do that unless you have an issue you so
41:10
as these supply chains aren't that efficient that you can get
41:12
something that quickly typically.
41:14
Yeah. And there are probably like just
41:16
so many other factors or problems that we haven't even
41:19
encountered. But just having this machine,
41:22
this device or this capability of fresh milling be able be
41:26
available to a lot of people. I think the whole discovery
41:30
process or the result of this discovery journey is just going
41:34
to be so much more diverse and so much more interesting.
41:37
And just to plant some seeds, there's no fundamental reason
41:40
why you necessarily have to restrict this machine to Tensha.
41:45
These plates that we have designed and manufactured.
41:49
These millstones are very hard and they're very durable.
41:54
We have really abused the current set that we have.
41:57
I was touching them before we left yesterday.
42:00
They're super sharp. It's like they look like the day
42:04
that we had been made. Yeah, Yeah, there is.
42:07
Yeah. There's a what they call self
42:09
polished, the characteristic of these ceramic plates, the
42:13
material that we used end up choosing to make this ceramic
42:16
plates. So it's very different from, you
42:18
know, soft granite that what people used to make issues.
42:22
It has, you know, in terms of durability, it's definitely
42:26
much, much better. Yeah.
42:28
And it's also incredibly biologically inert, like people
42:31
have made artificial teeth out of this type of things and
42:34
various forms of implants. It's a very similar material.
42:37
It's the same material as the ceramic coffee bears.
42:40
And so it's a very food safe as well.
42:43
We're very excited about possibilities and potential of
42:47
our people potentially milling some other things and we
42:49
actually think that we might have accidentally created the
42:52
best machine for Turkish coffee that is also a suspension of
42:57
coffee particles. Yeah, or for buckwheat flour,
43:00
Ryan, we can use it to make your favorite so but.
43:03
But you know, even within the tea universe, you know, putting
43:06
on some some various white teas, it, it has to be something
43:10
that's pretty soft and tender. If it's like super woody or
43:13
lignus, it might do some damage or it might not mill very well.
43:17
But certainly there's some really cool experiments that
43:19
people could start doing once these are in various people's
43:22
hands. So the idea for other forms of
43:25
powdered tea is well within the possibilities.
43:27
It's not our particular focus, but could be pretty interesting
43:31
for some people. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
43:33
Well, please don't put like super hard materials into it.
43:36
It might be a little bit difficult for us to help you fix
43:39
it. But you know, like we obviously
43:42
really want to welcome everybody to try to test the limit of the
43:45
machine and also test the limit of your imagination and
43:49
creativity. So let's get down to business
43:52
and be a little more real zone June.
43:54
All right, What's the timeline look like?
43:56
When can we get our hands on these bills?
43:58
So, so far, we have finally solidified the mechanical design
44:02
of this machine. Hey.
44:04
There we go. Major milestone.
44:07
I would like to take a small moment here to thank Sam for
44:10
literally finding some of the best partners and manufacturing
44:14
partners and design partners. It was very uncertain in the
44:17
beginning, one, if this was mechanically possible, and two,
44:21
if we could find anyone that was willing to go through this very
44:25
uncertain roller coaster ride. If it's like physically possible
44:29
to do this and you set up, I will.
44:31
I don't want to be overly complimentary, but you really
44:33
set up. Please please please try the.
44:36
World's greatest process for finding the right partners.
44:39
And we visited a lot of different people trying to find
44:42
partners that were willing to kind of run with the punches
44:45
with us. And we really found the right
44:47
people. And this project scope has
44:50
dragged on. I I think about 3 or 4 times
44:52
longer than they originally agreed to in the contract with
44:57
only a minor change of cost scope increase.
45:00
But you know, this is such a interesting and unique project
45:04
that our partners end up, I think really think or kind of
45:09
transcend from their pure commercial interest that is
45:13
willing to, you know, let us take in time for a ride.
45:16
But yeah, yeah, it has really been a long but very interesting
45:21
journey so far, Ryan. Yeah.
45:23
And it's it was, we were really not 100% sure if this was even
45:28
physically possible. But finally, major milestone
45:31
finally hit so. But finally, we have solidified
45:35
the mechanical design of this machine and we have hit our
45:39
major milestone, honestly an existential milestone.
45:43
Yeah, this is really, you know if it will work or not there.
45:46
Might be no, there might be no specialty matcha podcast if this
45:50
haven't worked as the out of commercial ideas and we can't
45:53
run this. Forever.
45:54
Yeah, we being our own sponsor no longer be able to sponsor
45:58
this podcast anymore, but thankfully it it works.
46:01
And so right now we are looking at another one or two months of
46:06
development time for the appearance design and the
46:09
factory ready redesigned and then another few months of
46:13
unknown time, hopefully within two to three months of filing
46:17
all of these certificates and compliance for different markets
46:20
that we want to launch. For safety, for electronic
46:23
certification, making sure everything is food safe, quality
46:27
tested and making sure that everything's up to spec with the
46:31
quality assurance procedures for each one coming off the line.
46:35
And our partners have guaranteed that they are going to
46:37
personally inspect each one along with us.
46:41
So these are really things that are touched and being very
46:44
carefully born into the world. So we are looking at our first
46:49
commercial beta tests probably by the end of the year.
46:54
Honestly, you know at this point after two years of development,
46:58
I can never be so sure about a deadline.
47:01
But this one I can be a little bit more sure because you know,
47:05
we, we actually have a working machine that can produce a
47:11
product that live up to our standard.
47:14
Yeah, and we're going to release all of the details about the
47:18
beta program to our existing beta users.
47:21
And if you are also interested in becoming a beta tester,
47:24
please do reach out to us. Instagram, the form on the
47:29
website, or just our e-mail, fax, fax.
47:32
Please don't fax or please don't call either.
47:34
WhatsApp is OK. You have my personal phone
47:37
number. Feel free to WhatsApp me
47:38
anytime. Yeah, we are.
47:40
We are looking for more partners.
47:41
We are looking for a more lively and larger community that we can
47:48
all grow together to make this a tastier future.
47:51
We're going to start with capping it 15.
47:53
If there's overwhelming demand, we might increase it slightly.
47:57
We're not sure yet, but we're going to give out details around
48:00
product specs, what we've learned so far, the cost, what
48:04
you can expect from us, what you should not expect from us and
48:07
sort of what our expectations of being a beta tester are also.
48:11
As well as laying out all of the risks of becoming a first user
48:15
of a product that really has no equivalent in the world yet.
48:20
There's a lot of unknowns and uncertainty and we believe that
48:23
we've structured the beta program in a fairway that
48:27
adequately compensates everyone for the risk that they're taking
48:31
in being an early adopter to what is and unproven technology.
48:36
And it's unproven until we have the first set of users that can
48:40
have their primary experience using it and to see the value it
48:43
creates everyone else. So it's something that we're
48:46
really looking forward to, but it's also someone something that
48:49
we want to really find the right people to work with.
48:52
Yeah, really just want to say thank you to you all.
48:55
Like it has been such a It would have been a very difficult and
49:00
lonely journey without all of you.
49:02
And without you, Ryan. Thanks, you too.
49:06
That's founding a company and doing things that are so
49:09
uncertain, such a lonely path. And so many times Zhangjun and I
49:14
left the prototype thinking, Oh my, is this ever going to work?
49:19
Like at one point we were getting very good product, but
49:22
it was being very slow. Like how do we do like at some
49:25
points? Like some.
49:26
Some changes really require large step size functions, not
49:30
marginal improvements and. Yeah, we.
49:33
Figured it out. So I think we just got lucky.
49:35
And you really develop a new level of appreciation for all of
49:39
the, you know, matcha milling or matcha making equipment that was
49:42
being, you know, created the in Japan.
49:44
You know, at some point they were talking about, you know,
49:47
Shizuoka being the the tomb. Of Kyoto Prefecture.
49:50
Kyoto Prefecture being the the tomb of Matcha Mills, and we
49:55
very much see our lab being the same way after all these
49:58
development works. And we are very grateful to
50:00
everyone who's helped us on on our journey and bringing this
50:04
product to life. Time, money, wisdom, knowledge,
50:09
you know, without that we would be running clueless and context
50:12
less. But we also asked that all the
50:13
beta testers kind of come in with a very open and kind
50:17
personality. We would like to really truly be
50:19
your partners intellectually speaking from a craft protect
50:25
from a perspective, from an education perspective.
50:28
And we're all students of Matcha ultimately and we're here to
50:33
help and contribute freely and openly as much knowledge as you
50:37
can, something that's part of the beta program as you like.
50:40
Everyone will have basically unlimited access to us on which
50:43
we obviously cannot promise everyone at the point where all
50:47
these mills are being sold. But along with a pretty
50:49
substantial cost reduction on the the cost of this mill and
50:52
the beta program. And then afterwards, we have
50:55
come up with a really nice model for everyone else and their
50:59
business to profit off of this as well.
51:02
With a very competitive, well compensated wholesale program
51:07
where everyone that has had personal experience with the
51:09
mill can then teach others how to use it and to spread the
51:13
skill and the availability of fresh ground matcha to more and
51:16
more and more people. And we would really like to see
51:19
this being organically LED community movement where there
51:22
is no right or wrong way to do anything.
51:25
We can all learn like what are the cause and effect
51:27
relationships in milling matcha from each other.
51:30
And then, you know, everyone figures out how does that work
51:33
best for me and my business or how does this work best for me
51:36
and my consumers. And that there should be no
51:39
right or wrong way to do anything.
51:40
And to have a very inclusive, open minded community.
51:44
Exactly. We are here to help, and we are
51:46
also here to learn. Yeah, yeah.
51:48
We're here to learn from you. We're here to, you know, have
51:53
you alongside with us learn from the consumers too.
51:56
Like we really want to create a very positive feedback loop to
52:02
keep optimizing and keep innovating, you know, to for
52:07
this machine and also for all of the other products that we want
52:10
to create to make much of making a, a better future.
52:15
Yeah, no doubt. And even to learn from everyone
52:18
too, about what other products we can make as we can reinvest
52:22
in new product development. Because two years is a long
52:24
time, Sam, you got to get that ball rolling.
52:28
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
52:29
Well, hopefully the next product is less complicated than this
52:33
one. I hope so.
52:35
I hope. Probably not, Is a little.
52:41
Bit big mess. A fair warning to all beta
52:43
testers. Wow you should look at our lab.
52:46
The amount of green powder that is everywhere now.
52:50
It's pretty well contained. The machines aired, but still,
52:53
it's a messy enterprise no matter how you're milling
52:56
matcha, actually. Well, flying matcha powder is
52:59
messy, but also it's a good sign.
53:01
Yeah, if it's not flying out of the mill, you probably didn't
53:03
mill it fine enough. It should be like snowing.
53:05
Yeah, yeah. So it's painful and happy at the
53:09
same time. Wow.
53:10
Yeah, yeah. Quiet feeling.
53:13
Wow. All good things take time, and
53:15
all good things also require quite a bit of human hands,
53:18
skill and knowledge, and Matcha is no exception, so it's for
53:22
sure we can get very excited. For sure, for sure.
53:25
And we can't wait to visit everyone.
53:28
We will not travel to all 15 beta testers, but the way we are
53:33
going. To we want to trust me.
53:35
We would love to, but from a time, resources and cash
53:41
perspective, we are still a very small under resourced company at
53:45
the moment. So please, please do be patient
53:49
with us, but we're going to, we don't know the exact number,
53:53
probably be around, we'll promise for the 1st, 6:00 to
53:56
8:00-ish beta testers that give us a down payment.
54:01
So basically you will secure your spot in line by giving a
54:04
down payment or to to prepay for the mills so that we can afford
54:10
to to run this factory run for all of these mills.
54:15
And for the first people who paid either 6 or 8 will
54:19
guarantee to come and do an in person implementation.
54:22
And if it's geographically convenient like if you're in the
54:25
same city as someone else. So we will also, of course,
54:28
come. Yeah, can we do 9 right?
54:31
Or 10 depends on airfare rates. But yeah, we're coming along
54:37
with the machine. Yeah.
54:39
And we're also here to help with tension sourcing as we are also
54:42
looking to to source tension. We want to keep it again open
54:45
ecosystem. So all the much of businesses
54:47
that are involved in the beta program can totally not only can
54:51
you sell on these machines in a wholesale capacity to your B to
54:55
B accounts, but you can then get the reoccurring revenue of
54:59
supplying your branded tension to them.
55:02
And so we hope that the mill can create more economic value,
55:06
significantly more economic value and then it could ever
55:09
deliver to us directly. We want to see the world of
55:13
macho milling accessible and that means being able to mill
55:17
any tensha from anyone, which is very important to us.
55:20
And so we really look forward. If you're interested in the beta
55:24
program, please do reach out. We originally intended this
55:27
podcast recording to be something closer to 10 minutes.
55:30
We are now past one hour. Wait, really?
55:33
We are time flies, OK, but we really wanted to put what we
55:36
were working on in context and perhaps we indulged ourselves a
55:39
little too much. A.
55:40
Little too much. Thank you for listening if you
55:42
made it this far. We really genuinely appreciate
55:45
everyone that's helped us get this far and our goal is to
55:48
really work together to create a better future for Matcha.
55:51
Yeah, Thank you for your patience for waiting so long for
55:54
The Machine and also waiting, listening so long for this
55:57
episode of the podcast, which originally intended to just be
56:00
an announcement, but we end up talking something very
56:03
interesting. Ryan.
56:04
Yeah, even after like 5 failed attempts at trying to do this,
56:07
we were like, oh, I don't like that framing.
56:09
Oh, we don't like the way this sounds.
56:11
Yeah. And we thought it was 10 minutes
56:13
and you look at the clock. Wow.
56:15
Well, we are excited. We are very excited and happy
56:19
and honestly very relief at the moment.
56:23
Yeah, relief is a really wonderful way of putting it.
56:26
We please allow us to be a little bit indulged in this
56:29
moment. Details to come soon.
56:31
If you're interested, please e-mail us.
56:33
I'd say in the next week or two, we'll have like physical
56:36
documents with the details in including the cost.
56:39
Apologies, we're not gonna put it in quite yet.
56:41
There's still like one or two things that we need to double
56:44
check before we can confirm it. But it will be more than $2000
56:48
and it will be cheaper than a $10,000 Ishi user.
56:51
And that is the range that we're willing to say and it will
56:54
probably be pretty close to the center of that, but we need to
56:58
make sure that we're not making some serious mistakes by
57:01
underpricing. Yeah.
57:03
Otherwise, we have to change the company into an NGO status.
57:06
We definitely need to be able to sort of repay our debts and also
57:11
have enough capital to reinvest in new future product
57:15
development. We see this as a gigantic
57:18
snowball that we wanna get rolling and really listen to
57:20
everyone and what everyone's needs are.
57:22
Yeah, this mill and the bowl is a start, but there are many
57:27
other much of making tools yet to come.
57:29
Yeah, and it's a future we're super excited for.
57:33
Again, thank you so much. We're actually grateful.
57:35
We're grateful to our partners. We're grateful to everyone who's
57:38
helped. We're grateful that this machine
57:39
works. Thank God or whatever much of
57:42
God, thank you. Thank you.
57:43
So we'll see you on the next one.
57:45
Yeah, see you in the future.