Latest / Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger / Whiz Kid Spooks Putin

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Whiz Kid Spooks Putin · Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Q&A.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jay Nordlinger and our guest today is Alexander Browder,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: who was recently sanctioned by the Russian government.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's a British teenager, 17, to be excited.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Exact.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: He is still in what we do.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: We Americans would call high school.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander earned the wrath of the Kremlin By uncovering it.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Its cryptocurrency money laundering network.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Follow the money, goes an old adage, This young fellow has been a part of the
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Has.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: He comes from a notebook.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Notable family.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: His father is Bill Browder,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sir William Browder,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: a financier who has devoted his life to opposing Putin and his dictatorship.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Bill's story has been told many times by me and others.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is best told by Bill himself.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Bill's paternal grandfather was Earl Browder, who once led the American Communist Party.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Bill has been known to say,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: My grandfather was the biggest communist in America,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: and I became the biggest capitalist in Russia.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Bill's father, Alexander is...
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: paternal grandfather, was Felix Browder, a leading mathematician.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: He was the chairman of the math department at Chicago.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Felix's brothers, Andrew and William, We're the chairman of.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Of the math departments at Brown and Princeton, respectively.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander Browder has something in common with his father.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, many things, but here's an important one.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Bravery, a determination to tell the truth no matter what.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, good morning.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to see you.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: me on.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: We met some years ago when you were smaller, but still sharp, awfully sharp.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're, uh.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine you have these math skills that run in your family.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Am I correct that you are no math slouch?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it comes from my genetics, which helps.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Your dad told me that he didn't have math.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't believe him, but he said his exact words to me were, I'm the dummy in the family.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: No way, of course, but that's the way he framed it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: But he must know a heck of a lot of math himself.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Can you confirm?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can confirm that.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's very inspirational for me.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so is the rest of my And that's my other great friends.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Familial link.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Links.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, Now, what does it mean to...
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: to be sanctioned by the Russian government?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it It means a couple of things.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: A couple different things.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Things.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: The first is that I can't travel to Russia.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: However, I wasn't planning on Anyway, due to my family background.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it also means I can't travel to other friendly Russian country.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Countries.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: But what I think it really is.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It really tells me the most and what it means the most is that my work over
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: the past two years This has really touched on.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: A nerve.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: With the Russian government and I'm looking in the right place
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: if they feel they need to sanction a 17 year old for his work.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, I...
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've discovered something that they don't want to they don't want to have in
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: the public spotlight, But it's really impressive.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Unprecedented.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are you the youngest person ever to be sanctioned by the Kremlin?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I am the youngest person ever.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still in high school, as you mentioned.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really interesting.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting paradox.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, And it was very fun.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Funny story about how I discovered these sanctions.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I was sitting in the back of my economics class Um, on a...
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: a, I think it was a Wednesday afternoon.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I opened up my laptop and I saw a Reuters headline stating that I was sanctioned.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that was...
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: was a bit surprising for me, but yeah.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is a dumb question.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Was it unnerving?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was I'm nothing, and it was also.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Also emboldening for me.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've I mean, And I've been working on this.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: This for the past two years and to see I'm going to see them try and fight back.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Back by sanctioning me, I think that was pretty surprising.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, So, we'll get to the work in a
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: In a moment.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, what you...
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: year were you born?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I was born in 2000.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: born in 2009.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: 2009.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: The same year as Magnitsky's murder, The, the murder of your.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Your father's lawyer,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sergei Magnitsky, after whom the Magnitskayaks acts around the world are named.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Sophie.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: He was murdered and tortured in prison and finally killed So nine years,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: sorry, months after I was born. And And so I've always I had that with me.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Me.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so growing up,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been inspired By people doing such great things,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: whether that's human rights or bringing justice for people like Sergey.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've always felt I needed to do something for him and for others who don't have voices.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And being young myself, I'm good at technology.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I understand cryptocurrency.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've always felt, why shouldn't I be doing something?
• 5:26
  Thank you.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, do you speak Russian?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: I unfortunately We never had the opportunity.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Opportunity.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: My...
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: My parents didn't think we were going to travel to Russia anytime
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: soon.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: To put it mildly.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't hanging out with many Russian individual.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Individuals, so I never had the opportunity.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's a cool language, though.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in your growing up, what have been your main school interests?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: What subjects have you been drawn to?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: firstly Firstly,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: mathematics, due to my family background, I've always had a keen Thank you for that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: That.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry Sorry to interrupt you, Alec.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, I forget the chronology and so on, and excuse me if this is a sensitive question.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever know your grandfather, Felix?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Were you able to meet him?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I did during my early periods of my life.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And he was always very inspirational.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or my...
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: my granduncles, my grandfather were all mathematicians.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so You know, that...
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: that's always been very inspirational.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't have that same level of mathematical skills.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Felix had an immense library.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: A very big library.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see it?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I did see it.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: I unfortunately couldn't read all the books because I was only five or so.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I used to hack.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hang out around.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a public library.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a college library or something, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's got 50,000 books.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And he read them all.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that was very inspirational.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I interrupted you.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I asked you about your school interests and then I interrupted you.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Keep going.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, so yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interested in math.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also interested As we would.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Would be seen here in international relations.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so the topics surrounding that, whether that's in history Or, um, like.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like geography or other things like that.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: there's no specific international or politics thing,
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: degree or not degree subject you can study within school,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: but that's always A bit of an inspirational one.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And also computer science because that's maybe the future.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this subject of cryptocurrency is so very important.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So very important.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: What made you zero in on it where Russia was concerned?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always been around cryptocurrency.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Many of my friends used to like trade it.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've always heard about it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: The case which really got me into this was in February 2025,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: the North In 1985, The North Korean.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Koreans.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, let's see.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: They managed to steal 1 .5 billion billion from a cryptocurrency exchange in less
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: than five seconds.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this cryptocurrency We'll see you next time.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Called Bybit It's one of the largest.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Largest cryptocurrency exchanges in the world,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: which allows people to sell and buy cryptocurrency.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: They had a large reserve of cryptocurrency and
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: the North Koreans just took $1.5 billion and they managed to launder it in
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: under 48 hours and eventually cashing it out in China I'm bringing it back.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Back to North Korea.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So So that 1 .5 % billion goes to funding their nuclear capabilities, That Army.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Army and other military infrastructure.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if the North Koreans are able to steal $1.5 billion, what else Uh, um.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Other people able to do?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what really got me started.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because if the North Koreans are able to do this,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: so are the Russians, so are the Iranians, The Iranians, so the the cartels.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really been a long process of researching.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have so much more to ask,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: but before we proceed,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I want to ask you this question, Alexander, and Forgive me if this is not.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Naive.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is cryptocurrency good or bad or neutral?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is it morally neutral, cryptocurrency, or is there something There's nothing sinister about it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: It?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously that's an oldsters question.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: You and your mates would laugh at me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's an oldsters question.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I think it's This is a valid question.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Question to bring up.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: It does have some benefits for people who aren't I'm unable to access.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're unable to access the banking system.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: It can be useful So, if...
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: if And if you want to be able.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Able to send And, um...
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: across borders and stuff,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: but But with all the benefits it has,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Those benefits can be can also be abused by bad actors very easily.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so There's many different ways which they do that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Another reason why I think it could be moving more towards the illicit use
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um...
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's because the...
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: bad actors,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: whether that's Russia or other people,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: are targeting the people who are trying to use cryptocurrency for good.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So unless that stops, You can have a progression.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Progress Um, the...
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: digital banking system any further because it's become so heavily intertwined
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: with illicit usage.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: But potentially in the future, when But all this is.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is We moved out of the system.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: System, it can definitely be used for good.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, Alexander, You think it's.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Some point, gee, I wonder what the Russians are doing with cryptocurrency.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'll have a look at that.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Something like that?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So this North Korean case came up.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: We'd say in America, your spidey sense told you.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I surmised.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: If they're doing it, other people are doing it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I set out to do over the past two years is log every case I could find
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: into So a database.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Database to see what I could possibly look at.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened over these past two years is that I created
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: the largest open source database of cryptocurrency money laundering.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So So from court records.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Record indictments, analytical reporting, Blockchain analysis and others.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I collated all these cases into this real really large, The large, the first.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: First and largest open source database in the world.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, I really found some shocking trends, which I'm happy to talk to you about.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, did I read the number 164?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: 164 cases?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: 164 cases?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so, and these are really This would be like massive cases.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Cases.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is just a conservative thing Because most of the...
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: of these, all of these cases are $50 million or above.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: The majority of them are like billions of dollars in illicit transactions.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: when you have this much amount of laundering,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: something needs to be done and this needs to be exposed to the public.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because what I found out out is that the majority of people have no idea about,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: first of First of all,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: what cryptic - cryptocurrency is,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: and then also how it's being used illicitly by bad actors.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And even more seriously,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: most senior politicians who govern the UK, the EU, the US, All the countries.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Countries, they have no idea what it is and how to stop it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what I've been focused on.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did you use the phrase shocking trends?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did I hear you say that?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about them.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Russia not only allows, but encourages criminal activity using cryptocurrency.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So a half of all illicit cryptocurrency exchanges,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: which is a service which you can buy,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: sell cryptocurrency,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: move cryptocurrency to different wallets, half of them, all the A list of exchanges.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exchanges are registered in Russia.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then really the most shocking thing, which is, How do you feel?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Has been one of the key focuses for my Um, investigation.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Investigation has been in Uh, in...
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: January May 2025.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: 2025, the Russians actually created their own stablecoin for sanctions evasion.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for your viewers who may not know, a So a stablecoin.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Stablecoin is a cryptocurrency which is backed to some real value like the dollar or gold.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: But in this case, It's backed by the rumor.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Ruble and it's backed by deposits at a military, at a state military Russian bank.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or PSB, which is sanctioned in the US, And the EU.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: EU, in the UK,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: and also a So a convicted Moldovan fraudster,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: who's also sanctioned in the US and everywhere else.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was set up in January 2025.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: and it's become one of their main tools for sanctions evasion.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm happy to go into that further later.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to Mentioned North Korea.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Korea, Iran, but if we can also move on.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: You want to say something about North Korea and Iran?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because this is also So very surprising.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Surprising for most people I speak to.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So North Korea generates a third of the government revenue from cryptocurrency schemes.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they've carried out 30% of all the cryptocurrency hacks in my database.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Most countries would have cyber defense divisions.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: North Korea has a cyber attack division, which is focused on taking down...
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Cryptocurrency.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: exchanges and disrupting hospitals here within the US or firms
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: which are just trying to operate where they either target them
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: for ransomware attacks,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: which is where they steal data and other services in exchange for payment.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: But so it's really become one of their main sources for generating revenue from them.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really became a shocking issue.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then, On Iran, which is very topical right now,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, we - The Iranian...
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Iranians,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: since they've become cut off from the main financial systems,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: they've become heavily utilizing cryptocurrency to Fund the IRG.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: IRGC, To, um.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Fund their military movements and stuff.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so There's many different cases of these massive exchanges moving billions
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: of dollars for the IRGC.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: One of my big investigations has been exposing Two, you.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Registered companies, which have processed billions of dollars for the IRGC.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: does the Russian government use this,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'll call it crypto money, to fund its assault on Ukraine?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine so.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's become what we're doing.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Really one of their main tools for doing this and it provides a financial lifeline.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So after the This is the major Ukrainian war.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: War broke out in earlier four years ago,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: they have been under heavy sanctions in the traditional financial space.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: But in.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, then.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Most of their banks are sanctioned.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Most of their All the gods are saying.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sanctioned.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so they've needed to find a way to move money and trade with their allies,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: whether that's Iran, North Korea, Or, um...
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: other institutions and and countries.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so what they've figured out is they can easily do this through cryptocurrency.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I was speaking about this stablecoin A7A5 before.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: This stablecoin is one of the main tools for it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's managed to thrive despite Western sanctions.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2025 alone, it processed over $100 billion for the Russians in cumulative volume.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that $100 billion goes straight to purchasing military equipment, Purchasing on.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Purchasing drones and other stuff, which goes onto the battlefield in Ukraine.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's vital that we take this down.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, when I was reading about you and your work and listening to you now, So, um...
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: thought has come to me. We We have a debate here in the United States.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's a long-delayed Russia sanctions bill in the Senate.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking, If you have any questions, please post them in the comments.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Even if that bill passed to impose these sanctions on Russia,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: and even if the Trump administration were willing to enforce these things.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sanctions,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: about which I have doubts,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: What good would it do if the Kremlin can get around this with this crypto?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a Well -grounded.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well-grounded concern or not?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the enforcement issue is definitely a well-grounded concern.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: But even at the same time...
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: sanctions were enforced,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: could Putin just laugh and say, oh, I can evade those sanctions with this other.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he could, and that's a big issue, which is why I'm going to say more cryptocurrency.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Cryptocurrency sanctions Needed.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to be put into place.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Place.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a big issue of mine.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: You really hit an important point because if you sanction stuff in
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: the traditional finance space And nothing will.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're within this.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: This gray area, then they can easily move through this.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this stable coin, A7A5 It's A785, it's been actually sanctioned And it's intermediate.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Intermediaries here in the US and then also in the UK and the EU.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: The EU even blocked any transactions with it And as they did that,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: it was - it was illegal to transact with it, but it still managed to function.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why it's able to function is that it's got enablers.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And in this case, there are enablers with within the state of Kyrgyzstan.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So many of the illicit exchanges which process A7A5 are registered in Kyrgyzstan.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: This includes Kyrgyzstan.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: A US-sanctioned exchange called Grinex,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: a US-sanctioned exchange called Mir,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: and even the issuer of the stablecoin,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: something called Old Vector, which is also US-sanctioned.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's been reports even more egregiously that the mastermind behind
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: the scheme gifted the Kyrgyz president a luxury jet.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really become...
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds familiar, yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really become a Large -scale corruption.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Corruption issue.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, we have...
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: had an expression during the Cold War, long before you were born, a red under every bed.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: You weren't supposed to hunt for a red under every bed.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And today, there's not a Russian under every bed.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I know that all roads don't lead to Russia, but many roads do.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been reading about Nigel Farage and his financial backers.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Reading about the Trump sons and Elon Musk And others
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do some of these roads lead back to Russia, do you think?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so I can't comment specifically on these people you've mentioned
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: because I haven't looked into it enough to find credible evidence.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do know is that Russia is actually using cryptocurrency to interfere in elections.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So So, I...
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: In Moldova, they had last year, they had a big Thank you.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, the.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: The Russians Send a hundred million.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Million to pro -Russian.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Pro-Russian political parties.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So a hundred mil-
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: $10,000,000.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: million to fund them.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then also they set up their own infrastructure on something called Telegram,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: which allowed individuals to be paid You know, in something called...
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: USDT, which is another stable coin,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: in exchange for voting for these pro-Russian political parties.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you have major elections coming up in France and other countries.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is So, let's see.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: A prevalent issue.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I would.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I testified on this issue to UK Parliament earlier.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, two months ago.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Ago or so,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: and they decided to actually ban Cryptocurrency don't donations within
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: the democratic process,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: because at least in the UK,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: it's the Electoral Commission,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: which is the equivalent of the election monitoring force or the government force,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the equivalent would be here within the US, but...
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: They have no power.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Powers to search these cryptocurrency wallets and they're underfunded And under resort.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Under-resourced to stop these activities from go.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Going on.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So in the coming election.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Elections He was in the U .S.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: US and other places, it should be something people look
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: at.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander, let's talk about the future, your personal future.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like to go to college or are you just going to go off and be a whiz
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: and what need have you of college?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think, um, I do.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to go to college and And I think the U .S.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: US has some great University Institute.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Institutions.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that may be where Uh, I'm headed by.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I definitely want to continue with my work.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: The advocacy never stops.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: You've got so many different people So, abusing cryptocurrency.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Cryptocurrency, whether that's the cartels Here in the U .S.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: US or scam centers and other illicit operations.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, um...
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: But there
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, I just want to say that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just want to tell our viewers and listeners,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: you said here in the US, you happen to be visiting our country at the moment.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I am.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm currently in Connecticut.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: But no, yeah, definitely.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the thing I found, I've grown up in the UK for All my life.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's really not enough ambition of people doing or wanting to do ideas,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's one thing it creates.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Create something big or wanting to do what I do.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so that.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: From what I've seen, what I can tell in the US, The skies you're living.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Your limit.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the - You can do whatever you want.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can create whatever you feel like and you won't be judged.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a systemic issue in the UK.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually, and you
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: The UK government not.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now is trying to encourage more No, UK.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: UK ambition through something called Project Ambition.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was invited to speak on this.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: In 10 Downing Street.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that they are trying to come up with some solutions to this.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's a slow process, which is why I want to come to the US.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so well said.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Alexander, here at the end, I want to tell you something.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: You may not like it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit parental.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: But when I read about you I've been talking to you recently in your your doings And
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: the Sanctuary.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sanctioning by the Kremlin and so on, I thought, oh, Alexander.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, don't get yourself into trouble.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're a Browder, but I was worried about you.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yet another Browder in the crosshairs of the fucking Kremlin.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Alexander, you're 17.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So felt worried.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I...
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think you are.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think if you live in fear...
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: That really constricts you and constricts what you're able to do.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's that.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: To thousands of people.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: People in Ukraine, for example, who aren't able to voice their concerns and try and stop this.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if I can have any effect, why shouldn't I be doing something?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander Browder, my hat is off to you.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I admire you.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And Strength to your hand.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hands.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: What a noble and good thing you are doing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I look forward to more.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.