Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller x Docu: Elizabeth Holmes, a Naked Boyfriend, and Three Hours of Absolute Insanity

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Killer Thriller x Docu: Elizabeth Holmes, a Naked Boyfriend, and Three Hours of Absolute Insanity · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan. Hey, everybody.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here from Killer Thriller, joined by my bestie,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Jen Fessler from Killer Thriller Docu.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Hi, Jen. Hi, bestie.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We got a lot to say.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Yes. So we both just watched You Can See Everything,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Nathan Fielder's wildly bizarre new documentary about convicted Theranos founder
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Holmes. Fielder moves into her home before she goes
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: to prison, and what unfolds is simply unbelievable.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Her partner wants a cut of the profits.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Amanda Seyfried shows up, and there's even a naked shower scene,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: which was so ridiculously gratuitous, but I won't go there now.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: But the biggest question is whether.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Holmes is a master manipulator or actually believing her own lies. Jen,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: this movie is getting incredible reviews.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: What did you think?
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: So, first of all, when I first heard about it,
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: I wasn't necessarily that excited to see it. I thought
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: it was another Elizabeth Holmes story. And then I started
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: reading what it actually was and about the reviews of
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: it and that it's probably going to be up for
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: an Academy Award. It's a documentary. And then my son
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: started telling me about it. Nathan Fielder. I guess my
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: son's a big fan. He's a funny guy. I guess
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: he's a comic also? Yes. Oh, no, no, no.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: So the thing that really kills me about this to
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: start is they're so self-important, meaning Elizabeth Holmes and Billy Evans,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: and they're so superior and they think they're so much
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: smarter than everyone. And they thought, let me get a
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: guy who doesn't know anything about what I do And
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: he is going to listen to everything I say. And
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: it just unfolds so beautifully.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Well, he called it early on. Yes. I mean, this
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: guy is a master. I think he's probably a master
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: of a lot of stuff. But I had never really
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: seen a film like this. Even just the cinematography of it,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: the close-ups, the faces. And you guys, if you haven't
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: seen it, then we're probably going to ruin it for you. But,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how to do this without
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: talking spoilers. Yes.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, so I saw this movie in
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: San Francisco. So, like, the belly of the beast, so
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: to speak.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: They were San Diego. They were Del Mar.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: But the whole thing is the tech. I mean, Theranos
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: was birthed in Silicon Valley. Like, that's where it all happened.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: They moved there to get away from this. And Billy Evans,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: when they met, lived about four blocks from me. So
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: this is all very, I didn't know him at all,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: but this is very.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Close.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: And people were laughing out loud to the point where
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: you couldn't hear anything.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: And people were like yelling at the screen. It was unreal.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: That was what I thought was so- Was it that
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: way in where you saw it? We were laughing out loud.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: My husband and I were laughing out loud. And you
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: don't expect to go into- An Elizabeth Holmes documentary.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: A documentary.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: She's away. She got over 11 years. She had babies.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: What she did was so horrific. And you don't expect that.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: But I think that through Nathan Fielder, you feel what
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: he's feeling. Yes. I don't know how he did it.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: He's a master, clearly. But the close-ups, the faces, his
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: reactions were my reactions. She would say these outrageous things. things.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Like I've never told a lie. Right. And he would
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: look at her like, stop it. Just stop it. Stop it.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I just wouldn't get into it.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Because the best thing is what these people do is
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: they are masters of manipulating language. Also like creating a
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: catchphrase or a term that sounds really super smart and
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: What he's so great at doing is they would say
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: two paragraphs of something, and then he would just look
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: at her and say, so what you're saying is da-da-da-da-da.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: And she would go, oh, well. And then she would
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: have to be faced with what she just said, which
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: didn't make any sense.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: If you didn't know better, if you weren't smart enough,
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: she would have pulled it off. Like I think for you,
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: maybe for me watching it. And again, like now that
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: I've watched the entire thing, I think that I might
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: have been able to have been manipulated by Elizabeth Holmes.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: With her like laser beam eyes.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: He says to her at one point when she's talking
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: about flirting with someone and trying to, you know, get
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: someone's attention.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: He's like, she says like, I really.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Just stared him down and looked at me and then
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: she's staring at him in the same way. And he's like,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: so when you're flirting with someone, you're staring them in
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: the eye.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It's so incredible.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: But at least I think he fell for it too
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: a little bit. I mean, we talked about that.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: So do you, that's what you think?
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Well, hold on. So first of all, I, this is
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: not the kind of film you guys that you go
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: into and And then you move on, right? Like it's
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: been lodged in my brain now since I saw it
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: going on how long ago? I don't know, 48 hours ago.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: And so I have been on a wave, right? Like
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I think this, I feel this, I think this, I
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: feel this. And then we talked about, because there's a
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: New York Times article that was.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Written by the guy who uncovered, yes.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Bad blood. He uncovered the whole, his whole scandal. And
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: then I read what he had to say about the film.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: And then I felt changed. My feelings changed again. You know, it's, it's,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: it is so complicated because looking into Elizabeth Holmes eyes,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I went from feeling like badly for this person who
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: just seemed like, honestly, like maybe she is neurodivergent potentially.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Maybe she is on the spectrum. Maybe she doesn't understand
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: that she's lying. Like I got wrapped up in that.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: And then by the end, and then after reading the article,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this is not me.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: From the get-go, the two of them, I felt like
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: there is this faux sincerity that is totally practiced and orchestrated.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: It's like they both read the books on how to
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: act like a human being with feelings. They are both
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: nefarious as far as I am concerned. And she found
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: him when she was for all intents and purposes, destitute
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and an outcast because she had already been indicted. And
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: he's got a lot of money. So she Jedi mind
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: tricks him. And then he is this like elitist, privileged
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: guy who doesn't really seem to have a job, but
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: has a lot of money. And it's like they were
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the perfect match. So they both manipulated each other is
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: what I feel.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: When they described their first meeting, right? It was on
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: a beach and that he had no idea who she was.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: And that he had no idea who she was, right,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: for a considerable amount of time. I don't remember what
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: he told me.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: He says an hour, I think.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I didn't believe that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Of course not.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: The thing is, there is one thing about Elizabeth Holmes
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: is that, forget what she looks like, which I think
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: is recognizable, those big, beautiful blue eyes. But also her voice, right? Yes.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: That is something that you recognize. I would recognize it.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: In a crowd of hundreds upon hundreds. You just can't.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: She was notorious for it, known for it. So that part.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: The reality is that is a big fat lie. He's
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: completely full of it. He at least admits that he lies.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: So this is the other thing that I thought was fascinating.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: In poker, when they talk about you have a tell,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: somebody does something that.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Is a tell that they're bluffing.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: As the film went on, because Billy has his– this
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: is like from his manosphere workout nonsense to like he
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: has this thing where he's putting on this persona as
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: a guy who's really in touch with femininity.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: And he really cares about his partner. And he knows
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: all these– and then he– systematically starts shutting down any conversation,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: any question that starts to get difficult.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: And then he has this tell.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: He starts in the beginning where he like sniffs in
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: the middle of a conversation.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, I asked Jeff if he was doing coke.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, and then it starts to escalate when he can't
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: stop it.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Wait, Alisa, do you think that was coke? Was that cold? No. Well, maybe.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: But I think it's because it's his tell. It's his
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: thing that he does when he is making shit up.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: I wasn't sure. I literally said to my husband, what's
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: with the sniffing? Right. That is so interesting. Yeah, but
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: it was so, and it made him look unsure of himself. Yes.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: It made him, you're right, it was tell. I absolutely,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: absolutely can see that. Yeah. But, you know, at the beginning.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: the way they were with each other until, so he
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: started to freak me out. It was the egg beating,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: but all that's what started. That's what started.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: That was what made my, my, the hairs of my
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: neck stand up on it, whatever.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: But like, wait, because you felt like he was controlling
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: her or what?
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Yes. I thought that like he couldn't help himself. She
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: was stirring those eggs and he couldn't help himself, even
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: though he, I felt like you're too smart not to
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: realize that this is going to look like a douchebag move.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: But then she I felt like that moment in that
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: scene was so telling about the two of them and
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: their dynamic because she in that moment, realizes she's just
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: as manipulative as he is. She's going, oh, I need
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: to now be subservient and let him do this and
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: then say, oh, and then turn it into, I'm a
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: weirdo who doesn't know how to mix eggs and my
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: sweetheart always will help me to mix my.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Eggs and You think she was even playing there on
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: the whole? Yes. Yes. Stop. Yes. The thing is, I
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: don't know if this is, we have to look back
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: at all of our time together, Elisa, but maybe I
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: am just too freaking gullible because at the beginning of it,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: not throughout it, when she would cry. And then after
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: a while, I realized that the tears were performative. She
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: would have those big teardrops rolling out of her eyes.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: And I felt something.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, Jen.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Especially with the babies.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: If you were going to prison in 30 days.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: I would be crying.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And you knew you were guilty. And you knew you'd
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: be crying. So these tears, I'm sorry. It's like a
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: teenager when you get caught for something. You know how
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: many times I cried when I got caught like smoking
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: in my parents' house?
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? But also, it was the
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: babies of it, I think, also. That was hard. That
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: was really hard.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: That was really hard.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: But I also, the first time, and then it got
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: a little better, but the first time they show her
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: with her child, and she's just like, when you tap
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: your baby's back, I was like, are you going to?
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: beat that baby. Like what's going on with that child?
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Like that's not quite, let's be a little more gentle.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, what is.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Happening right now?
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: I just thought that when they had the baby in
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: the rocker.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: When she was hitting it with her foot? I was like,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: that baby's going to fly across the room.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Oh my God. Oh my God. So, okay. There's just,
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: there's just so much to talk about. Okay. So there
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: were parts of it that I thought were the most telling. Listen,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: every part of it was fascinating. But there were parts
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: of it that I thought, okay, this is now making sense.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: And you could see what a master manipulator she is.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: And the part that got me, I think for most people,
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: was the who's on first.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Okay. There's this part in the film where Nathan Fielder says,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: you remind me of Abbott and Costello and one of
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: these iconic skits that they used to do called who's
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: on first.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: And it's totally fair that you wouldn't know because she's younger.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: It's totally fair that she wouldn't know who Abbott and
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Costello are.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Agreed. But the skit is iconic. Again, listeners, probably if
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: you watched it, you already saw it. But it is classic.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: So anybody that watches this skit, you can pull it
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: up anywhere, I think it is very funny because it's
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: understandable what is going on here, right? It's like a
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: play on words and a play on... We can't, I
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: can't understand what you are saying, but it just, and
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: the way that it's done is hilarious, right?
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: And so without, I guess we don't really get into
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: the actual skit, but the thing is she claims not
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: to have understood the joke.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Even when he repeats it to her.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Even when she was laughing, Elizabeth Holmes is a very
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: smart woman and there's no way she didn't get it.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: But that, so that part for me, she pretended not
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to get this joke. You guys, the joke of the skit,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Because like, as Lisa was saying, I think she wanted
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: to paint this picture. I'm neurodivergent. I keep saying that.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: What does that mean?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Essentially, it means that you are a different learner, that you,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: your brain.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Essentially that she could be on the spectrum, but essentially
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: that her brain works differently.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: She's a different learner. So things might impact, have a
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: different impact.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Yes. But I didn't believe it when she said she
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: didn't get the joke. course I didn't believe it. And
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: for me, that was, that was the aha moment. That
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: was the part where I felt I was being manipulated.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like I was, I was
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: falling prey to her and her antics. Yep. So that
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: was so eyeopening for me because stop it. Just stop it.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: You don't get it. Just stop it. The guy's name
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: is who? Okay. Exactly. Stop your bullshit.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Stop your bullshit.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: But what about also There's one scene where they slowly,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: so we should say it starts that they had invited
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Nathan Fielder to live with them.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: He initially said, no, I'll just come.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: And shoot during the day. And then he gets in
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: there for a few days and he's like, I.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Think I might want to get a little bit more
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: involved here.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: So he does move into the house and, um, Which
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: has many hilarious moments in and of itself.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Like, no mattress.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: No.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It just shows that, like, they don't, like, comfort.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: The way that he went to bed with no covers.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, I can't.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: But they zoom in on her parents who are there.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Who literally, as they start to talk about they're going
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: to do Theranos 2.0, basically.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: And the camera, Elizabeth and Billy are yammering on and
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: on to each other about their genius idea and how
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: if it was, sidebar, if it worked perfectly the first time,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: why do you need to change the technology now?
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: But that's a separate conversation.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: But also, are you acting like you're insane or are
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: you actually insane? You think that people are going to
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: give you money for Theranos?
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: But this is like the fake it till you make
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: it thing about Silicon Valley. It's such BS that I can't.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: And then we should also talk about the time, how
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: there were no women. But just a quick second about
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: her parents, where they zoom in on the parents, and
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: those two are like yammering. And you just see they're
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: like deer in headlights looking at these two like, oh, God, what.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Is going on? Here we go again. But then the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: dad says, I trust Billy.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: I didn't believe that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't believe it either.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: There were so many parts of the parent interactions that
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: I was so spooked by. Now, I didn't know that
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: she was raped. Did you?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yes. I knew that from the dropout.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Okay. And I'd seen the dropout. Maybe I just didn't remember.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know. But anyway, so when the father said
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: everything changed when she was raped, and I thought that
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Nathan sort of looked at him with a little bit
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: of like, shock in his eyes and then nothing happened
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: from it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: But Billy like cut in pretty quickly after that. Right. Yeah.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: I thought that the father was going to go into
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the ways in which she changed.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Maybe give us some insight into how, you know, my
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: daughter changed and maybe went a little crazy, but nothing.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: But they don't say anything.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Nothing. And Billy got in there pretty quickly anyway and
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: shut down the whole discussion of Nathan and her father. Right.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: And was pretty adamant that it was over. And I
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: didn't understand what was he afraid of in that moment?
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: What was Billy afraid of?
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Because I think the dad was starting to talk about
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: just their relationship or like the way, the types.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Of relationships that she gets into.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Because he said, you know, asked about, is it a
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: mistake given her history to get involved romantically with a
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: business partner? Right.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And he was like, let's shut it.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Anytime Nathan Fielder gets into something that could even be
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: a little bit questionable for Billy, he just shuts it down.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: So they go from saying, you can see everything, to, oh, no,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: but not that. So now we have to go, oh,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: now I have to have this conversation. Oh, you've got
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: a work call. Honey, you know that thing you have.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: It's like they're doing— That was so— And I even got, honestly, Lisa,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: this is how gullible I am. It always takes me
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: a minute. When she went into the other room to,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: the kid wasn't even crying. I think the kid was
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: just playing. She all of a sudden gets up and
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: then he asks, and then, right. And then Billy wants money.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: And even that, I wasn't sure that she knew for
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: sure that he was doing that. Now, you looking back
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: on it, I'm absolutely sure that they were both in
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: on it. I think that she's such a liar though.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: When she said to Nathan in jail, Obviously, at that point,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: it wasn't her.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. Amanda Seyfried. Who is brilliant and genius beyond.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Beyond. Beyond. Yes. But when he said, did you know
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: that Billie asked for this money? And she said she
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: didn't know that. Did you believe it?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: No, of course not.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Just like when on the phone he asks her, did
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: you know that I would be here? He orchestrates being
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: able to speak with her when she's in prison.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And he says, did you know I'd be here when
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: you called? And she said, I don't.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Think I knew. Like, what does that mean? It's so psychotic. So, okay. Amanda,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: for a minute. I don't think anyone is. I saw something,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: a clip of her yesterday on, I don't know what
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: it was, Instagram or doing an interview recently. And she
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: basically didn't, she was very mysterious throughout this interview about everything.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Like she didn't want to say anything about her life,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: what she was doing and like. The person interviewing her
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: understood why it was like a private joke. Like she doesn't,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know that she, I did not know she
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: was going to be.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: No, this was a complete secret shock. And this is
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: why the film, I've never seen anything like it. It's
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: a documentary that becomes larger than life that then feels
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: like a narrative, but it's still very much a documentary.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: It's one of the most compelling things I've ever seen.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: So you guys listeners, if you don't know that, and
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: you probably, do if you're listening, but that Amanda actually
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: played Elizabeth Holmes, right? We know that. And so it
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: was a very bizarre thing. So she gets brought in
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: and she begins to, her and Nathan kind of team up.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: And they're almost sort of trying to figure it all out, right?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: And the aftermath of everything that's happened. And she steps
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: in for Elizabeth Holmes in the weirdest way. So she
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: actually puts on costume. I was like, Jeff, are they
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: making another movie? What is happening? But she does. So
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: she's a little, Elizabeth goes to jail. And now here's
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Amanda playing Elizabeth. Because Nathan is feeding her this information.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: This is what she said when I went to the jail.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Because he can't bring a camera into the.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: prison.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: So he makes all of his notes.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: And they want to continue the documentary. And it is mind, mind,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: mind blowing.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: See, you even see Amanda feel compassion for her as
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: a woman. I felt like I was riding the same
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: journey that she was in this. And I love, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: she said, he says something, Nathan says something like, so
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: are you siding with her in this moment?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing. It's something like that.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: And she said, of course, because no woman wants to
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: watch another woman and be manipulated by a man like that.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Like she just very matter of matter of factly stated
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: what I was feeling like, yes, Elizabeth home is. And,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: but like they both, he is just so smarmy and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: creepy and disgusting.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: But I don't think I'm now looking at it. Cause
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: that's how I'm like, Well, feel the same. But also,
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: is she that stupid? I don't think she's that stupid.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: No, she's not.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know. That's the thing that's like, is she
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: that stupid that she's going to be taken by this guy? Right.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: She's not.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: And I'm like also giving him power of attorney. He's
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: not stupid. What is she trying to? And then she said, listen,
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: something is in her name. It's getting taken anyway. She
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: owes millions upon millions upon millions of dollars in restitution. Right.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know. It's all so overwhelming. What I thought
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: was really interesting is when Nathan reads her something that
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth had said about how what Amanda Seyfried did, the
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: role that she played has made things so much worse
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: for her in jail, for Elizabeth in jail. And a
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: lot of it, and they watched the film together, right?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: And they believe it's fact.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: So Nathan and Elizabeth and Billy watched it together, right?
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: And you saw how upset Elizabeth was getting from the portrayal.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: And there was stuff in it, of course, like Amanda said,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: it was TV. There were parts of it that were
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: not true. There were parts of it, you know, obviously
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: that were made up. But Elizabeth was saying that it
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: has affected her in prison. People believe that she is
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: who Amanda played. Yeah.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Well, she's a convicted felon.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: But you saw Amanda. I thought Amanda felt badly about that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I think she did. I think she felt, you know, conflicted.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: But also, again, I'll bring it back to if you
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: see if somebody is putting your nefarious behavior and your
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: lies right in front of you and you have to
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: watch it, that's why she was crying. She wasn't crying because, boo-hoo,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: this person is making me look bad.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: She's crying because she's faced with.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Her own lies. Did you think also, though, she was
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: crying because when they were watching it, they were watching
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: the part where she was with her partner, with the guy. Sonny. Sonny.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Awani.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: So she was, right. And that scene that they watched
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: was really uncomfortable, icky. And that's when she started to
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: lose it a little bit. And I don't know. In
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: the end, I know she really was blaming Sonny for
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: how it all went down, right? And he's in prison, too.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I want to say for 13 years or something, I think.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: So, so they both went away for it, but in
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: the end, almost as if she was taken advantage of
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: by this way older, powerful guy. And that, so watching
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: Amanda play that part of it is I think when
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: she started to really get emotional. Now, how much do you,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: when you look at that, right. And, and this documentary
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: didn't really focus that much on Sonny, but in terms
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: of like the big picture, Do you think that she
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: was manipulated by and victim of Sonny?
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: To a certain degree, I do believe so, yes. To
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: a certain degree.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: And I think that he saw in her this young
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: genius that he also was attracted to, but I think
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: he really was attracted to her mind as well and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: saw how incredibly intelligent she is. And then he wanted
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: to be a part of that. He wanted to jump
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: on that bandwagon and could see that she was going
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: to do something that was great.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: And then the two of them just.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I think we should also talk about at this time
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: in tech and in Silicon Valley.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: They needed... There were no women. I mean, there still
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: aren't really. But at that moment.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: they realized, oh, we have to do better because we're
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: starting to get some flack for this, that there are
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: no female founders and no women. So the fact that
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: she came along at this moment and then they just
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: started to put her on every magazine cover and put,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: now I am not excusing the fact that they blatantly
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: lied about the ability of this technology and this machine.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: It was a complete lie.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: It was not there and it was not capable of
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: doing what they said it was. But she was given
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: all this extra attention because she was the only woman.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: And she would wear the Steve Jobs. I met her
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: at Sheryl Sandberg's house in her black turtleneck, which I love.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Are you wearing your turtleneck in her honor today?
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: No. God, I wouldn't have worn it, actually. You shouldn't
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: have said that to me. Go take it off.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: She would go around in a black turtleneck with a
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: voice like this.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: And it was sort of right. I didn't know who
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: she was.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: And my husband was you know, said, wow, I can't
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: believe that she's here. And I said, who?
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Like, why?
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: And he said, it was right at the moment when
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: she was starting to get, I don't think she hadn't
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: been indicted yet, but it was, things were going awry.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: And to that point, at that time, you know, she,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: people want, I think women in particular wanted to believe her.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Like they wanted.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Her to succeed so that they were putting a lot
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: into her. And that part of it is what makes
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: me even more furious because I feel like.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: You feel like she fucked us. Like you had us
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: all so excited for you. Yes. Yes. Well, the other
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: piece that I thought was interesting is that she said
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: she never wanted to be on TV. Like when they
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: were doing... So they were trying to create like an
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: AI version of her for when she left.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Can we talk about that after?
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, which was just so freaky. But they were doing that,
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: and she said she started to cry. She was so uncomfortable.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: She didn't like being filmed or on TV or something
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: to that effect. And then when you read that New
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: York Times article- It's BS. It's BS. She loved it.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: She loved being the center of attention. They pulled up
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: texts between her and Sonny where she was so excited
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: that she was.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, like it's working. This PR is exactly what we need.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, the PR is working. We're right on track, and-
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: It was all about her and loving to do TED
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Talks and all of that. But she's one of those people, honestly, Lisa,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: it's hard for me to believe that someone can be
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: that good of a liar. That's what was so fascinating
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: about this is that she looked at Nathan and said,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: I've never told a lie. Right.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: But this is what these tech people do. This is
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: what they do.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm saying, this is a very general blanket statement,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: but these people, that's what they do.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: You say it until it's true. If I say it enough,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: it's true. That's what they do.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: When you say tech people, you mean, or just pathological liars?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: A lot of them are, in my opinion.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: There's this industry thing of, because you've got to get
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: everybody on your bandwagon. You've got to get people to
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: come work with you and be working for 900 hours
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: a day and be on the program and bring your
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: dog and we'll give you, you can do everything. You've
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: got to be on board for the mission. So they
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: do that. And then that's how they get all their,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: their investors.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So the more you have to believe your.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Own bullshit, your own shit. Right. Yes. So there were
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: so many ways I felt like she was. So her manipulation,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: the lies of it all were so felt like she
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: believed them. Also, she pulled me in when she started
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: flirting with Nathan. And I feel, I felt like she
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: was pulling him in. Yes. Oh, you did? She's like,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: let's go in the water. And he's looking at her. Now,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Nathan is also curious.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: He's smart. He's too smart.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Smart, but also left of center, right? Oh, definitely.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: And I couldn't tell.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: Yes. There were times where I thought that she was
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: drawing him in. I think that's.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: What he wants us to think.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I think that's, he wants to show how manipulative she is.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: But even at the end, when he was talking to
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Amanda about her and Amanda's like, she's got you. Like she,
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: and Amanda is implying to him, you're in love with her.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: And he's like, why are you saying that? For it
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: to have even gone there was so bizarre.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I know, it was so bizarre. It's so bizarre.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: But I could feel it too. I mean, Listen, I
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: felt like Elizabeth Holmes could stare at you for 45
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: minutes in the eye and not say anything and pretend
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: like that's normal.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Yes. Like she's looking into your soul. And he would
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: do it back to her. And it was so weird
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: and uncomfortable. And I thought, is he falling under her spell?
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Am I falling under her spell?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: No, I think it is a part, because even from
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the beginning, it's so hilarious and genius. From the first
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: moment that you see Nathan, he's just staring, not into
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: the lens, but to the side and just watching her.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, this guy thinks she's nuts. Like,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: this is really. And what about this shower scene? So
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: there is a scene.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: It's so, it just epitomizes this. what this type of
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: guy is like.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: I'm going to fully naked.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: You see his penis, you see him in the shower
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: and you're, and he is just like, so proud of himself.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: I looked at my husband during that. And I was like, literally,
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I was like, ew.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Like it came out of nowhere. All of a sudden
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: his dumb penis. Why am I seeing his stupid penis
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: right now? How, what context does this have? Right.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that Fielder chose to do that?
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Because the fact that he was, I don't know if
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: he encouraged it, how it happened, but that he was like, oh,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: I'm fine with that. That in and of itself says
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: this guy is a poser. Yes. This guy is a, a,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: not just a narcissist.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: They're both narcissists to be clear, in my opinion.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: Jeff, why is that penis here? What is happening? I mean,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: And what was beautiful is that Nathan didn't... There was
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: no commenting on it. No. Nothing.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: It spoke for itself.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: He was just like, I am so cool that I
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: don't mind that the cameras are in here. Yeah. Getting
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: a picture of me and my big dick swinging in
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: the shower. Exactly. It was so stupid.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: It was so dumb. I feel like... I don't know
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: how either of them will dig themselves out of this.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And also, what does this do? I'm assuming she
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: wants to get out before her 11 years are up. So...
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Was this part of that? Did they think that this
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: would help?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Well, this is what I think is so amazing.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: And I hope that the narrative doesn't get twisted as
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: it often does. I hope that we see that these
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: are two terrible people. These are bad people. And so
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: we should not be drinking their Kool-Aid in any way, shape,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: or form.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: And Billy Evans even says, I can do anything I want.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I know enough power for people. I can do anything
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I want.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: And I'm out for, what did she say? Like, I
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: am out for revenge.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I'm out for revenge.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: And he is just a despicable person.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Yes. How about the way that they, for whatever reason,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: they got snakes.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: What was that? Like, just, what was it? A lizard
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: or something wandering around the house? It was so creepy. Yeah.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Jen, I literally thought for a second, I was like, wait,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: did I, did I fall asleep for a minute?
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: What happened? Why? And what's now, what now am I
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: looking at?
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: What exactly?
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So wait, so now we have big boa constrictors
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: or something and lizards like hanging on the floor. What's happening?
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Oh my God. But this is why there was so
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: much to this. Cause like the last shot of Elizabeth
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: with her kids, um, having a picnic or whatever it
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: was at the prison with these babies still got me.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: It did.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: It made me feel sick because when he is like
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: laying down in the middle of, even when they weren't outside,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: they were inside in the visiting area. And I just
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: thought that is the most entitled behavior I have ever seen.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: This like just wealthy misogynist white guy who just is
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: going to lay down on the floor of the visiting area,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: not care about anyone else who's there visiting their families,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to play with my children.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I just found it sick. And the same thing with
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: the AI that he's.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Creating, taking all these photos of her so he can
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: give an AI version to his children.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: I don't believe that was for his children. That is insane.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: But I wasn't the part with him. It was the
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: end of it with her. On the prison grounds, walking
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: outside with the kids. And she looked beaten in a way. Listen,
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: it's a woman and it's kids. And although I think
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: she is maybe the most unbelievably masterful manipulator of all time,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: one of them, it still is like a mom and
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: the babies. And I don't know.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I feel for the kids. I don't feel for her.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Wait, quickly, we got to talk about the X account.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: So Billy Evans took over. And then he says in
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: this way, he's just so obnoxious. He's like, well, someone
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: I know high up at X, I told them I
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: needed control of Elizabeth's account. So he takes over her
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: X account and starts posting these things that it doesn't
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: sound like it's in her voice at all, anything she
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: would ever say with profane entities and sort of very short-sighted.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And do you think, she says that she, do you
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: think that she knew about this? Do you think that
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: she knew about any of these posts?
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: You don't. No.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: You think she has no idea?
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: It's not that, I think that she probably knew that
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: he was responding on Twitter. I just think that she
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: would defend him till the end.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Pretend like she didn't care. Yeah. I just think that's like,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: That's the least of her problems. You know what I mean? Like,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: I don't really think that she probably knew it was happening,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: but probably didn't even have that much interest in it,
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: you know, or even minded that he was speaking for her.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: What do you think?
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I think she knows everything.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: And I think that she just will agree with him
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: because let's remember, she doesn't have any money now, right?
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Or anything that she makes has to go. So I'm
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: sure that she's secretly hidden money somewhere. I mean, I'm sure.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: But essentially, she does need to have some income, and
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: he is that. So she.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Has to be very careful, which is clear she's brilliant
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: at it, of navigating these waters, of making him– feel,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: but it's the same she did to all the male investors.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, they somehow just saw big blue
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: eyes or something, you know?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't, she may not care.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: She might be like, she's so out of touch with
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: what's really happening in the world. She might not care
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: about an ex account. I mean, I actually wouldn't care
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: either because it's all BS anyway.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: At this point, it's like, she's got bigger fucking fish
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: to fry. Right. Wait, I don't want to forget about
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: this part. because we talked about the end and her
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: walking with the kids at the jail, but that was
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: near the end was when Nathan and Elizabeth Holmes were
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: in fact, swimming in the ocean together. And the fact
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: that he chose to leave that in, please tell me, Lisa,
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: I need way smarter minds than mind. What was he
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: trying to say with that? Like she had actually manipulated him.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: One point earlier, earlier in the film, we should, say
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: they have a conversation where she talks about how much
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: she loves being in the water that it clears her
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: body and soul and mind and all of this and
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: she invites him to to go in the water because
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: he doesn't like it.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: And you can see he's like.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: He doesn't like cold water. He's like afraid of cold water. Yeah.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: He's like, I don't want to do this. So then
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: we learn way later at the end of the film
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: that they actually did get in the water together.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: But it was literally like... I don't remember exactly how
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: it went down. The credits started rolling and then all
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: of a sudden you see them frolicking in the water.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: It was the weirdest thing.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: It was weird that he chose that. But again, I think...
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: It was almost.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: Like he was saying, even I... can be manipulated by her.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Like even. Yes.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: I think, I think that's what he's trying to say.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: After all of this, she even gets me a little bit.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think he was manipulated by her.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: It was all intentional by him. You think he's that
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: smart that the whole thing was.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: He is. Damn.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: That he's making a commentary about it.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Like I'm sure he did, you know, see some moments that,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe softened him or he felt differently about,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: but I think he's an, full control of this movie,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: which is what I loved.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: I know. So when she leaves for prison and Nathan
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: is saying goodbye to her and he gives her the card.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: What did it say? Don't you want to know what
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: it said?
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Well, it didn't say at the end, but it just
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: said from Nathan. There was no like love Nathan.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Then he gives her something to escape.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: And then he gives her something like hair dye, like
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: in case you want to run, like a disguise.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: And her parents are sitting there and he's like, oh, sorry,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: this wasn't funny.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: But that's the part of it also, you guys, that
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: like this guy is so funny. And my son said
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: to me, he didn't even know really about the movie.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: He's like, he's a comedian. He's hilarious. He's really smart.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: And he's really funny. And there's, you wouldn't, there'd be
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: anything funny about this story, but he infused humor into it.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: And the whole audience was like laughing out loud. It's
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: just because it was so preposterous. It's so many parts
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: of this that just were, you know, you had to
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: just like suspend reality. It is crazy.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: It is. I mean, we could talk about this for hours, literally.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: So we highly recommend this film, I think we can say.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: You can see everything. It's in theaters now. Everyone has
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: got to watch it.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: It's three hours. I want to say that Amanda Seyfried
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: comes in like after two hours.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: It's like probably halfway through.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: And then about about that. And then there's this whole
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: other dimension, you guys, that starts, it's as if, and
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: I think it's very meta, but it's like the whole
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: thing starts again in this weird way. It is brilliant.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: It is brilliant. I haven't seen anything so brilliant, so
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: captivating in a long time.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Limited release now, but it's opening wide in theaters this weekend.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: See it and let us know what you think.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Hopefully you did see it before you listened to this because-
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: I know. We can't help. It can't be helped.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: It can't be helped.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: We cannot avoid the spoilers, you guys. It cannot be helped.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: You haven't seen it. You will see why.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: But it's such also, it's just, it's so great in
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: terms of like me being able to reflect on how
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: gullible I actually am. You know what I mean? Like
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: looking at myself through it and saying- Did you believe her?
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: Were there moments where you did like, at least it
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: sounds like you did not period full stop from the beginning.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: She got nothing on you.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I also have a little bit of bias of living
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: in the Bay area. And I like lived through this
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: in a different way, maybe then.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: And again, I don't, I met her once I have that.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: It means nothing. And I don't know him either. I
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: didn't know any of these people, but it is such
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: a part of the, zeitgeist of this area.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: And it was so a part of my just daily life.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: It was in the Chronicle every day. You know, like
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: this is something that I feel like I know a
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: lot about being a person who's not involved.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: In tech, just sort of by default.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: And that's why I watched all the movies. That's why
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I was so engaged in it, I think. I have
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: to say, in some way, this is a little bit
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: of a lighter conversation than we normally have because these
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: are despicable people that are serving time, and I don't
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: feel compassion for them.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: It is, but also there's, you know, listen, we talk
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: about violence and murder and it's, this is, you're right.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, well, this is white collar. So maybe it's
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: a little, a little bit easier. I'm sure the people
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: that lost millions of dollars don't feel like this.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Don't feel this way.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Yes. But anyway, but also it was the documentary itself.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: It was the way that he did it. It was
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: the fact that he managed to find humor in it
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: the way that it had so many different dimensions and
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: was so fascinating. So I do not believe that we're
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: the only ones who are going to want to talk
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: and talk and talk and talk and talk about this.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: And to your point that you started this whole thought
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: with about your feeling like questioning, do I believe her?
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Am I feeling about?
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's important to note that we all come
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: through this with our own set of circumstances and understanding
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: about being manipulated about being a woman who's then judged.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Like there's a whole host of things that are going
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: on here, I think for any individual person. And then,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: you know, you have the actual facts. So we're all
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: going to have feelings.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we are. I mean, that's, that's, that is
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: probably what it is, right. More than anything. It's not
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: like it, it, I'm looking at myself and my reactions, right?
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: And so I'm just saying, we haven't even gotten to,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: we won't, we don't have time now, but to the
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: rapper who created the billboards. Oh my God. I mean,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: that was like a whole other piece of this. That's
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: a whole other piece.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, guys, you've got to watch this movie and then
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: come back and talk to us about him and the
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: billboards and the things.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: We'll leave you with that.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us. Thank you. This was a
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: good one.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: This was a great one.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: I'm a huge Nathan Fielder fan now. I'll be following
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: in his every move.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to see if this gets nominated for
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: an Oscar.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us, you guys. Thanks, everyone.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: We appreciate you. See the movie.