Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 440: What Would Michael Hunsucker Do? (And BONUS Conservation News!)

Transcript

Ep. 440: What Would Michael Hunsucker Do? (And BONUS Conservation News!) · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and today on the show we are joined
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: by Michael Hunt Sucker of Heartland Bow Hunter to run
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: him through the what would you do gauntlet, and we're
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: gonna get some bonus updates on a very exciting piece
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: of wildlife conservation news. All right, welcome to the Wired
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light, And
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: as I just mentioned, we've got a two parter for
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: you today. The first part is exciting conservation news, an
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: important update for everyone that I wanted to get out
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to you right away so that we can start making
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: a difference on this front. We're gonna be talking about
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the recovering of Mayor Because Wildlife Act with John Gale
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of back Country Hunters and Anglers. This is gonna be
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: one of the most impactful pieces of legislation that could
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: impact wildlife and wildlife habitat across the country in in
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: years and years, decades, probably maybe a generation. This is
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: on the scale of the good kind of stuff we
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: did last year when the Great American Outdoors Act was
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: passed for public lands. This could do that kind of
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: good for the critters that we love to watch hunt
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: learn about all sorts of stuff like that. So I
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: highly encourage you to tune in for this first part
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: because we as hunters can make a positive difference in
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: helping this kind of thing move forward. So the first
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: like forty forty five minutes of today's episode is going
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to be about that. The second part is going to
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: be diving into some deep white tailed deer hunting discussion
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: with Mike hunt Sucker from Heartland bow Hunter. It's an
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: amazing show if you haven't watched it yet. Mike's been
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: dedicated to bow hunting for a very long time now,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: hunting all across the Midwest and across the country, and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: he does a very good job of it. And today
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: we're gonna pick his brain about how he does those
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: things and what he would do in a series of
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: challenging circumstances, how he would handle things when it comes
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: to managing a property, how he would handle some situations
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: when it comes to scouting and preparing a property, what
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: he would do in certain tricky deer hunting situations in
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the season, as you've probably heard me do with people
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: over the last year and a half. I'm going to
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: run him through all these wanna pick his brain to
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: see what he would do, why he would do it,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: how he would do it, what his thought processes, all
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that kind of good stuff which will hopefully give us
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a unique level of insight into his deer hunting approach, mindset,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and process. So that's today's episode. Like I mentioned first,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: forty five minutes or so, is important conservation news that
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I hope you'll listen to and that I will hope
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: you'll take some action on. Second part is going to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: be some serious deer hunting know how. So well that
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: all said, I hope you enjoy this. Thanks for being here,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: and let's get to my chat first with John Gale
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of back Country Hunters and Anglers. All right with me
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: now on the line, I've got John Gail. John, thanks
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: for taking time to be here in the show. Thanks
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: for having me Mark. It's a pleasure. Yeah, I'm I
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: am excited to talk with you because I feel like
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: we've got at least the potential for good news on
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the horizon. It's it's so and maybe you probably do
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: feel the same way as I do on this I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: guess maybe not. But I subscribe to a lot of
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: different newsletters, and I get lots of updates that send
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: me environmental and conservation in public and related news and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: stories every day of the week. And it just seems
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: like every day I pull up my inbox and I
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: read through the headlines and I read this, and I
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: read that, or look on Instagram and I see this
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: update and this piece of news, and I get disheartened
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: just so many pieces of bad news or this thing
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: is coming down the line, or this place got whatever
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: burned down or locked up or drill or whatever might be.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: It seems like it's easy to get overwhelmed sometimes with
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the the depressing things that are happening to our natural
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: resources in our wild landscapes. So today I'm hoping that
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: we can dive into something that is pointing towards a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: better future. And that's the Recovering America's Wildlife Act. And
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: can you just give us a headline on that to
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: get us started. What's in your mind, like, what is
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the headline? What's the key message that people need to
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: hear when it comes to when it comes to this, Yeah,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: perfect way to kick things off. So Recovering America's Wildlife Act.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: It is a really thoughtful way to address places for
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: wildlife investment that just haven't been made. So hunters and
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: anglers in particular have done a great job in leading
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the way towards recovering big game speci ease and what
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: we you know, might call hountable fishable populations of fishing
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: wildlife species that were you know, on the brink in
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: many ways for many species, especially big game species, but
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: also a migratory uh wildlife migratory bird species at the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: turn of the century when we decided we needed modern
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: day wildlife management in the early nineteen hundreds and and
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: really started putting the pieces together. But over time investments
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: from excise tax programs like tim and Robertson and Dingle Johnson,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: which hunters and anglers should be proud of, and our
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: sort of legacy and indelible impact on supporting fish and
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: wildlife through the organizations that we support or the purchases
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: were making. We've done a great job on a lot
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of species, but not all the species. And and what
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: this legislation would do is invest in non game species
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and ensure that those that are most threatened, most vulnerable
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: stay out of the emergency room, so to speak. And
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: when I talk about the emergency room, I'm referring to
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act. When species become listed as threatened
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: or endangered and and when you list a species under
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: es A, that's when it gets very expensive to manage
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: fish and wildlife populations to to bring them back. So
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the idea is to invest in species that might be
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: vulnerable or at risk now to ensure that they don't
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: get to the emergency room in the first place. Where's
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the same way with humans, right, Uh. Insurance companies know this. Uh.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: If you go get your your check up once in
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: a while and and you're staying on top of your
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: your healthy body situation, it's way cheaper than an emergency
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: room visit and you call. So same it's true for
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: wildlife and and that's exactly what this legislation would do.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Would dedicate almost one point for billion dollars annually to
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: help state, territorial and tribal fish and wildlife management agencies
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to proactively manage those at risk species and prevent them
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: from being added to the federal list of Threatened and
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Endangered species. It's bipartisan, which I am super pumped about.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Congresswoman Debbie Dingle from Michigan, they're out your way, UH.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Congressman Jeff Forton Berry from Nebraska, Republican round out things
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: on the House side of the equation. In the other
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: chamber in the Senate, we have Senator Martin Heinrich throw
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: New Mexico and Senator Blunt from Missouri, UH, sort of
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: filling out the bipartisan nature. So this is UH supported
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: in both the Senate and the House. It's something that
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: is the product of really decades of hard work by
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: hunters and anglers and business leaders people like Johnny Morris
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: over at bass Pro and and it's and it's really
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: great in the way they look at UM including tribes
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and and sovereign nations like tribal entities that play a
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: huge role in fish wildlife management that not a lot
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: of people are aware of. There's a a thing called
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: state Wildlife Action Plans, and then there's UH a parallel
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: planning process the tribal management agencies utilize as well. Those
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: have been around for decades, but they've been woefully underfunded
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: at the state level, meaning they can't carry out all
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the great things that they know that they need to
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: do for management of non game species. So this really
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: drives that one point four billion dollars a year into
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: making sure the implementation of those wildlife action plans is done,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: you know, full bore, and that we really get to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: work doing this. And why hunters and enablers should care
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: about it is the fact that you know, they share
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: habitat with game species too, And if you're taking care
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: of you know, stage brush country in the West for
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: a non game species, well guess what that's benefiting meal
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: deer and pronghorn and elk too. And so it's a
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: it's a really great way to think about it. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I think the main reason why you see so many
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: hunters and anglers and hunting and fishing organizations really behind
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: this and you know, putting their collective shoulder into the wheel. Yeah,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: and you know, I think I think it's it's worth
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: taking a step in looking at that picture a little
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: bit more closely, because it could be it could be
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: easy as a if you're just a die hard hunter
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: maybe and you look at the situation, you say, Jesus,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: seems like we're in the golden days of deer hunting.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: There's deer everywhere, or maybe you're in the bear hunting
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: and there's black bears everywhere. You love elk, and there's
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: great big alcohol over the place, and you might think yourself,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I think America's wildlife is doing just fine. But to
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the point, there are a whole lot of critters out
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: there that are in a much different position, and maybe
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: they don't get the spotlight shined on them as often.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: But you know, there's this this idea um it's it's
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: fairly well I think accepted now that we're in the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: midst or the beginning of the potential of a six
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: mass extinction type event. That these things have happened over
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: millions and millions of years, where there's been periods of
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: accelerated extinction, species disappearing off the face of the earth
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: in in tight windows. It seems like the extinction of
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: species doesn't happen slowly. It seems like over geologic time
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: there's these these big bursts of change that leads to
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: this kind of thing. And for the first time, it
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: seems like a lot of scientists are pointing to that
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: we are creating that we as humans, all the changes
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: that we've that we've struck across the planet are now
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: impacting a whole lot of animals. There was a report
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I think in two thousand and eighteen, and you can
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: correct me on this something wrong, but I think it
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: would point out that something like a third of plant
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: animal species and fish species across America are now at
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: increased risk of extinction. Um, I know internationally across the country,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: across the world. Sorry, that might even be higher. Um,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: it's insane. You can you can look at things even
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: here in America like monarch, butterflies, I think reduction in numbers. Uh, salmon,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of course, anyone who fishes on the West Coast knows
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: that salmon and steelhead runs are plummeting. Um. Can you
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: can you just speak a little bit more to this
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: A lot of people are referring to as a biodiversity crisis.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: This is while white tails might be doing great, there's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of other things out there that aren't.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And and really they're all connected. Yeah, you're you're right
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to think about this in such a holistic way and
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of pull back and take a bird's
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: eye view when we when we talk about recovering America's
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Wildlife Act specifically, you know there's there's around twelve thousand
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: species that we're focused on just for that, But if
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: you if you pull back and look at the phenomenon
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: of what you're ultimately talking about, you know, some people,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: you know might referred to it as as macro evolution,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: so to speak, right Like, that's a that's a turn
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that you'll see some biologists and and people taking a
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: look at what extinction really means as a natural process
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: of what they call macro evolution. You know, this occurs
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: usually at a rate of around if I'm remembering correctly,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you know, about one out of one million species becoming
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: extinct per year. And and that made it sound like
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a small fraction, but here point in geological senses and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: fossil records sense, you know, it seems rapid, and the
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: rate of species lost today remains comparable to those periods
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: of mass extinction that you reference. But I think the
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the biggest difference between previous mass distinctions and and the
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: current extinction that people feel we're already experienced right now
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: is the level of human activity. Right human activity was
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: either not present at all or uh, not a consequential presence.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And now with you know, the destruction of habitat and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the fragmentation of migration corridors, the introduction of invasive species
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: across all taxa, over harvesting of fish and wildlife populations.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a there's a pretty long list that
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is attributable to human presence, and so we had to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: take a look at that and juxtapose it was what
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, this this tiny amount of time on
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: a geological time scale, you know, ranging from you know
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: what some experts say like ten to fifty even, and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: with the five previous extinctions on this scale being caused,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: you know, mostly by cataclysmic events that really changed the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: course of history and life in each instance, like Earth
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: is now in one of those times again. And some
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: of that we can't you know, stop or rewind the
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: clock on, but we can do our part to focus
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: on species that uh might be endangered or at risk
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: in vulnerable in some way now and do what we
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: can to make the habitats they occupy more resilient, more
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: able to withstand some of these natural cycles. And we
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: still may see a degree of extirpation, which for those
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: of your listeners don't fully understand the difference between extinction
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and extirpation. You know, extinction is one of species completely
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: disappears and is no longer in existence. Extirpation is one
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of species used to exist some place but no longer
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: occupies their native range in that area. So so I
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: think extirpation is something that that we should really be
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: concerned about um right now, because we're seeing that happen
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: already with a number of species and a number of places,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and it's not too late to try and do something
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: about it. And that's why recovering America's Wildlife Act is
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: an essential priority for back country hunters and anglers where
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I work, but also so many other groups working on this,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: including our friends at the Association of Fish and Wildlife
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Agencies who are leading the charge through UH what they
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: call the Alliance for America's Fishing Wildlife. A whole bunch
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: of partners B h A included are a part of that,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and if you haven't checked out their website, encourage you
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and anyone listening to this podcast to go to one
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Nature USA dot com and take a look at what
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: they have going on there. Really fantastic information and UH
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and we love to support, you know, the people doing
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the great work there on the agency side of the equation.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So so speaking, of of what's happening on the agency side,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that the state level, like that, that's where the change
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: is going to happen. Basically, this is gonna get of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: money to the state agencies so they can actually do
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: their jobs. And I saw in one of the articles
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I read, uh from my home state of Michigan. I
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: can't remember the exact number. I should have wrote this down,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I'm a poor podcast host, but it was something like
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: they had a budget of thirty five million dollars a
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: year or something to do everything they had to do,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and most of that comes from funds from hunting and
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: fishing licenses, right, uh, other than yeah, yeah, and so
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: outside of the COVID boom, which did help us pump
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: up some numbers there, in general, there has been a
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: decline in funding, or at least expected decline in funding
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: for a lot of these states because of that funding resource. UM. Now,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: if this were to pass in the example of Michigan,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: based on the calculations they make to determine funding per state,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I think, if I remember, is based on state size
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: or something like that, UM, they're funding with more than double,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: so they would have more than double of their entire
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: budget of what they would be doing too. Now, actually
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: be a stuff done for all of these things within
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: that plan that they have written up for for years
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: and simply have never been able to put anyone behind
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: some of these actions. Um. Can you can you shine
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: a little bit of light on what these plans look like,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: how they came to be, Um, what kind of things
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: might be done? I mean, I think when someone thinks
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: about a state wildlife agency managing wild resources and stuff,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: they're thinking, well, they're gonna, you know, make sure that
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: people aren't poaching deer, and they're gonna make sure that
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of volunteer habitat days in public land
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: and YadA, YadA, YadA. But but what are these people
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: doing and what could they do if they had real
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: funding like this? Yeah, that's a great question. So I
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: mentioned the state wildlife action plans before. There's a sister
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: planning process for tribal wildlife action plans in sovereign tribal nations.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Those are essentially the conservation blueprints for our nations fish
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: and wildlife restore and preventing endangered species from becoming endangered
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: species in the first place. Um, that's that's the core
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: of what they do and in order to sort of
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: uh meet there there, you know, planning requirements what they
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: want to accomplish, like a tremendous amount of funding needs
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: to be applied to each of these plans. And and
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: there have been eight required elements essentially laid out by
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Congress for the planned development. And the plans are all
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: developed in collaboration with scientists, biologists, private landowners, and a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: number of other people. And and right now we are
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: looking at ways to ensure that this this program, these
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: state and tribal Fish and Wildlife plans actually get fun
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: and put together. They've been around for a very long
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: long time. I don't remember the exact year. I want
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: to say, maybe um back back in two thousand five
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: sticks out as a date for me for some reason,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly why, but uh, they've been around
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: for a long time, and and I'm pretty sure two
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: thousand and five was the year that each state, in
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: each territory and in the District of Columbia submitted their
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: plan for approval to the US Fish and Wildlife Service
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: as a condition for receiving funding through a program called
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: the State Tribal Wildlife Grants Program, which is has been
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: woefully underfunded. And and you know, if you look at
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: what the Association of Fishing Wilife Agencies says about that program,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: we see six one million dollars more or less is
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: appropriated annually by Congress to the states territories in the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: District of Columbia to to implement the plans. But what
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: our research suggests and indicates is that we need really
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: about one point three billion dollars annually to implement the plans.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And so that nearly one point four billion dollars I
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: mentioned in the beginning for the legislation is what that
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: number is based off of it. It goes back to
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: that research where we've worked with economists and those that
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: focus on natural resources to actually give us some real
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: raw information we can work with and understand. And one
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: point three billion dollar is the is the big number
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: um And a bit of a history lesson that's connected
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: to all this was the formation of a of a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Blue Ribbon panel. They brought together diverse group of interest
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: to focus on how we get there, acknowledging that we
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: need one point three billion dollars and if and if
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: we're only pumping six million in from Congress, that's a
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: huge deficit that we have to make up. So they
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: created the I might say they the Station of Fish
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and Wildife Agencies was kind of leading this. They established
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the Blue Ribbon Tannel on Sustaining America's at First Fish
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and Wildlife Resources. I believe that's the official name. It's
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: been a while since I uh read up on it.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: But the goal of this Blue Ribbon panel was to
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: really develop a solution that was thoughtful and could get
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: us there. And that's where the Recovering America's Wildlife Act
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: was ultimately born. And that's where this legislative concept grew
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: out of and why we are where we are now,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: which is, you know, very close to being on the
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: verge of getting something done. Actually it's it's getting congressional attention.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Has been introduced in both the House and the Senate,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: and it's got a lot of support on both sides
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: out there, so we see a realistic chance of actually
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: moving this thing forward and getting it done. And it
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: would it would do incredible things, um, you know, at
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: the state level, not just you know, helping agencies do
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: what they've always done in terms of managing fish and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: wildly populations, but getting to the things that they haven't
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: been able to invest in like, you know, habitat restoration
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and working with both private landowners and public private partnerships
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and the federal land management agencies that manage our public
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: lands and waters and really digging in on on like
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: invasive species and doing a host of important activities that
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: they just haven't been able to spend any money doing so,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: like you know, like restoring habitat for the the goopher tortoise,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: for example, would would benefit quail habitat in the South
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: East tremendously. And you mentioned monarch butterflies, you know, for
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: enhancing pollinator habitat for monarch butterflies that improves habitat conditions
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: for almost all species you can think of, including deer
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: and wild turkey and and everything else. And so there
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: there is a real strong connection there and and that's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: why we're so pumped and excited to be a part
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: of this. So you know, last year when the Great
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: American Outdoors Act has passed, we we heard and we
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: celebrated it as this once in a generation win like
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: this massive, you know, paradigm shifting victory for the conservation movement,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: for public lands, for public access, all that kind of stuff.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I'm hearing folks talking about this in this in a
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: similar context, like saying this is like the wildlife equivalent
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: to the Great American Outdoors. If the g O was
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: all about this huge wind for land, habitat, access, the
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: ray WA or however want to we want to say
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: the acronym is like the wildlife complement to it. So
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: we we got the land protected, we have a we
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: have resources now to acquire and protect the land. Now
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: we need resources to protect and manage the wildlife on it.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Is that the right way to think about this, Like
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: is this that big of a deal? Absolutely, That's almost
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: exactly how we talk about it at b h A too.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Great American Outdoors Act was phenomenal, and and we we
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: worked on the Landing Water Conservation Fund for years and
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: we all have a shared victory to continue celebrating. As
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: you know, nine million dollars is dedicated annually to l WCF,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: and nine point five billion dollars over the next five
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: years is being dedicated to UH infrastructure and deferred maintenance
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and all the great things that the Legacy of Restoration
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Fund is going to to fund. Now we get to
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: do the exact same thing, but focus specifically on wildlife
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: through the Recovering America's Wildlife Act. Uh, you're right, like, uh,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Rawa is a academic. I'm not supposed to say that,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: by the way, So hopefully now the important people we're
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, we we try and say the
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: full thing because I have people to really it is
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: a mount full and everyone's lips and we say raw
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: whah all the time. But the reason why we try
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and force ourselves into saying the full thing is because
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: you get to really like remind yourself that we're covering
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: America's wildlife. But that's so important, and and being able
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to focus this amount of money in habitat enhancement through restoration,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: invasive species removal across all taxa, and look at research
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and watershed health and wildlife management across jurisdictional boundaries. That's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: awesome and what a massive wind and something that's been
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: hanging out there for so long. Like I mentioned in
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: the beginning, we've invested a lot in big game species
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: and charismatic megafauna, but there's a lot missing on the
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: non game side, and by doing so, we we continue
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: to invest in all the other wildlife species at the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: same time, so it's a great thing. Now. I know
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: there's some folks out there, my my fiscal conservative friends
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: who who see a one point four billion dollar price
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: tag and say, where is that going to come from?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: How are we gonna pay for that? I know that
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: over the years, is this this idea has been proposed
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: that brought some concerns from the Republican side of the
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: aisle as well. Um, I see that with the recent
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: introduction to the Senate, they've got a creative solution to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: funding this. Do you want to fill us on that? Yeah,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: for sure. So, Uh, things are still kind of coming
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: together around that. There's there's typically no specified what we
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: call a pay for how to how to offset the
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: expense of the one point four billion and it's not
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: it's not quite one point four billion, but when you
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: add in the tribal cyber getting close. Um, So there's
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: no specified pay for in the House bill, but in
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the Senate bill, Uh, there's a really creative pay for
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: using what what all quote as the amount of all
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: civil or mineral penalties find sanctions forfeitures or other revenues
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: resulting from natural resource or environmental related violations or enforcement
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: actions by any federal agency that are that are not
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: directed to be deposited in a fund other than the
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: general Fund of the Treasury or have otherwise been appropriate.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: So that's like a it's a lot of like specific
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: uh technical jargon for the bill that essentially says we're
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: gonna make the criminals pay for it, which is awesome, right,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So like, let's make the poachers pay for it. Who can?
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Who cannot be in support of that. So that's the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: working concept on the Senate side to help pay for this.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: And and we're we're looking at what is called a
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: manager's amendment in the House bill when it comes up
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: for mark up to see if we can essentially cut
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and paste the same paid for that I just described
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: for the Senate bill and apply it for the House bill. Um.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And and as we look at opposition in the House,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you're right, like most of it has been because of
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: the price tag, but um, we're we're also getting some
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: opposition back on the Senate side. The Environment and Public
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Works Committee, who were working closely with to make sure
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: that everyone's on board with this solution. You know, they're
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: not entirely fond of the pay for because it isn't
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: brand new revenue coming in. So essentially, we're we're shifting
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: revenue that's going into general Treasury without any specific yearmark
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to a program and shifting it over there. And what
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: they like to see is brand new revenue generated somehow
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: for these types of offsets. I don't think that's mission critical.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Finding new revenues difficult and and sometimes doesn't align as well.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: And I personally like the sort of poetic justice of
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: taking that criminal penalty side of things. You're doing something
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: especially criminal on the wildlife side of the equation, like poaching.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: If we can direct um penalties and UH finds and
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: forfeitures and things like that coming in through the wildlife
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: side the system, whether it's at state level or or
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: US Fish and Wildlife Service, if it's coming into the
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: US Treasury, applying it to this seems like a really
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: great way to achieve some justice for wildlife, Like, you know,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: where it's impacting wildlife over here, We're taking what we've
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: been able to recover in terms of criminal penalties and
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and helping wildlife out over here. Like there's a bit
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: of poetic justice to it. I really love, and so
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I hope that we can keep that intact as it
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: moves through both both chambers. Yeah, I think it's you
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: couldn't write it up any better. I mean, that's that's perfect. Uh. Now,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: related to this whole funding debate, there's another side of
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: this that I'm sure some people have brought up or
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: maybe will, which which kind of echoes some of the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: negativity that came out of proposals around the backpack tax,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: which you know, I know, you know about folks have said, well,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: you know, hey, if you are recreating on public lands,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: you should have to pay some kind of tax or fee,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: just like hunters and anglers do when we buy ammunition
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: or you know, we we fund so much of conservation
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: through our license sales, through the tax applied to our
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: ammo and firearms equipment, etcetera, etcetera. So why shouldn't backpackers
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: and bikers and that those kind of people pay in
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: two um and so that's been proposed, But some folks
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: within the hunting fishing community I would look at that
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and say, actually, I don't want that, because when we
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: hunters and anglers are the ones who pay for the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: majority of conservation work, we get a disproportionate percentage of
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: the voice, We get a bigger seat at the table
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: because we can say, hey, we paid for it all,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: so you gotta listen to us when we talk about
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: how to manage it. Do you think there will be
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Are there any people were about that in this kind
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: of case, like all of a sudden, we're going to
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: significantly increase the resource base and it's not as directly
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: tied two hunters and anglers. Is that something we need
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: worried about it all? Or is that just over you know,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: overblowing something. Well you hear that, but I'm not sure
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: how how big a deal it really is. Right, Like,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I think if you ask any fish and wildlife agency
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: about the need to diversify funding sources and revenue sources,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: everyone's kind of on the same page as like, you know,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: hunters and anglers have been shouldering the burden for far
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: too long and and we don't have that much more
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: to give, so we have to bring in other contributions
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: from elsewhere. And you know, you could make the argument
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that it might disenfranchise hunters and anglers in the process slightly,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: but I think bringing in other stakeholders is generally a
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: good thing, and you're not going to um keep hunters
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and anglers from continuing to have probably the most important
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: voice in management decisions on the way the states know
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: where they're bread is buttered, so to speak, and license
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: sales are still incredibly important. So I'm less concerned about that,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: and I think if worth thoughtful about implementation, as these
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: funding mechanisms get put into place, we can avoid that
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: by being thoughtful up front and making sure that we
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: avoid circumstances where where that could even happen in the
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: first place. And it's a it's a way to uh
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: bring in new revenue while maintaining sort of the proud
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: legacy and tradition the hunters and anglers have already had
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: making their contributions. This is a way to so I think,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: elevate that and to complement it in a new way
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that brings some serious money to the table. And we're
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: we're supportive of exploring new revenue ideas too, like that.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: We've we've floated this, you know, backpack tax conversation lots
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: of different ways with lots of different people, and it's complicated.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: You know, if you talk to our friends in the
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: outdoor industry, they're understandably, uh, really concerned about that. They're
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: already being crushed by tariffs and UM they can't afford
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: to pay more on top of what they're already paying
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: in their terror structure. So how can we be creative
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: about what a Maybe it's not a backpack tax, right,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe we're talking about territory redirection. We're taking UM, you know,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: existing tariffs and redirecting a portion of them to something
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: like this. Or we're working with their friends and now
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: door industry to reduce the tariffs they're they're paying and
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: replacing that with some form of exercise tax. There's I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: think a lot of clever ideas out there that we
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: should explore with our friends and the outdoor industry to
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: get to something like this. And there's a lot of
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: interest in Congress on both sides of the equation, you know.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: We we've been hearing from Republicans and Democrats both. They're
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: very interested in exploring what this looks like. I think
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: it's just too premature to have it be a solution
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: for recovering America's Wildlife Act. But that doesn't mean that
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: down the road it couldn't be. And we should continue
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: looking for new revenue generation UM to support wildlife conservation
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: in general. And and certainly that's an additional solution that
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: ultimately we could legislate into UH feeding recovering America's Wildlife
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Act funds for state and tribal wildlife action plans as
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: much as you know, going to the Wildlife and support
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: fish restoration fund itself too. Um. So, lots of opportunities
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: before us, and I think if we're careful not to
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: close any doors or tire hands behind our backs and
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: necessarily we can leave those options on the table and
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: and get to a place that makes sense for everybody. Yeah, yeah,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: that that makes sense to me. So so back to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: the Michigan example, potentially doubling the budget that these folks
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: have to work with to make positive change on the ground.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: That's like world changing kind of numbers there. How likely
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: is this thing gonna happen? Like? How is this a
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: is this a pipe dream? Still? Is this something that
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: you think like with the right pushing and prodding, it's
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: actually gonna happen. What's the timeline? Um? Where where do
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: we stand with this thing? And should I be grabbing
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: up my little party hats and that kind of thing
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: or what I think you should keep the party hats
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: in the drawer but within arm's reach. Um, we're we're
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: are ways away from pushing this over the finish line.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: We we feel very confident about it. However, there's August
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: recess coming up. The House is getting ready to be
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: wheels up and go back home to their districts tomorrow.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: The Senate is set to head out for their recess
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: some time later next week. After August recess, they have
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: to come back in September and and do a whole
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: bunch of things, um including getting a budget passed. Because
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: the fiscal year ends the end of September, things like
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: the Surface Transportation Authority expires, so they've got to authorize
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: that again, and any leftover business related to what they
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: call budget reconciliation and infrastructure deals and things like that
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: could spill into September still, So there's a lot that
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: needs to happen in the short term, but a lot
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: of promise that indicates this might actually move in this Congress.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And and if it doesn't, then we're not that far
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: away from the next Congress. And we see a lot
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: of the leadership in place on this bill ready to
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: move it, very excited and motivated to move it, and
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: with so much backing at the state level. I I
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: see it as as a big win as long as
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: we can really get that pay for taking care of
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: in the House bill. Make sure our friends in the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Environment Um and Public Works Committee on the Senate side
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: are okay with this concept of a pay for If
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: we get that dialed in, that's really the biggest barrier
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: to being able to to get this bill a mark
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: up and hearings and ultimately floor votes to get it
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: over the finish line and off to President Biden. So
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I would say it's realistic. It's not imminent in the
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: short term, but it could happen um by the two
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: there's a chance that I think it can move at
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the end of this year. If we were able to
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: get things done quickly so on congressional timelines, that's that's
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: as close to light speed as you're gonna get. So
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: back in sixteen seventeen, eighteen nine, we were able to
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: rally our community and kind of put put the foot
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: on the throat of the land trans or at least
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: the blatant land transfer type proposals and bills, and we
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: kind of got that at least ostracized to the outskirts.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: We then in we got the Great American Outdoors Act passed,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: and a lot of that I think came from the
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: fact that we as a community and other outdoor recreators
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: just made it politically impossible not to get behind something
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: like this. It became a poison pill to be anti
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: public lands. It became we we simply forced the issue
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: with putting constant pressure on these folks through whether it
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: be the media or letters or phone calls or rallies.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: It really it seems to be a very clear correlation
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: between the action of people listening to this podcast and
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: others out there and people who care about this stuff
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: and what actually happened. Like it wasn't like these folks
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden changed their minds and decide all
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: of a sudden one day, you know what, I actually
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: do care about the environment in public lands. They said,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I want to keep my job, I want to get
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: elect it again, and we told them what I need
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: to do. So, how do we look? What do you
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: think from your experience being inside a lot of this
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: over the last five or ten years. What can we
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: learn from our wins over the last five or ten years,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: last couple of years early, What can we learn from
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: that and apply to this to make sure this happens
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: too well. The mark the cynic in me says, we
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: can learn that no matter how well meaning we are,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: the politics will always reign supreme over a creating a
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: sense of urgency in legislative deal making. Right. We we
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: saw the Great American Outdoors Act move quickly, uh one
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: because it was bipartisan nature. So there's some feel good
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: stuff there too, but it was also super interesting political
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: dynamic at play with some key Republicans and vulnerable seats
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: and and and a Republican president working to make sure
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: that uh, those vulnerable Republicans had something like the Great
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: American Outdoors Act to really run on move some of
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: those moderate votes to your point about keeping their jobs.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: And so you had a really unpredictable political dynamic at
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: play that really create the sense of urgency, thrust this
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: to the finishing line so quickly and move the Great
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: American Outdoors Act ahead. Um So I think there's um
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: uh always going to be that political piece of it too.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: And and you reference the whole public lands sell off.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: When we saw Congressman Chafe It's from Utah introduced his
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: land disposal bill, and that wasn't a new bill like
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: that bill had been introduced before. But to credit your listeners,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: to credit all the great wildlife advocates out there, the engaged,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: we just have a different technology of platform than we
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: ever have before, activating people, informing people, and creating real
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: time communications across digital media spaces. You know, is a
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: whole new era for advocacy. And and when b h
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: A sort of lit the fuse on our end, and
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: our our friends and other conservation organizations did likewise, we
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: were able to really capitalize on those connected digital networks
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: to raise the alarm in and Congressman shape Its was
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: relatively young and and connected in and using digital media himself.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: And so you know, we saw for the first time
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: a member of Congress both um, you know, yank back
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: his bill as a withdraw it. But he did it
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: on Instagram while holding this little hound dog. It was
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: like a classic image that's burning so many of our
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: our memories, like with this pivotal moment where the entire
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing universe that cares about public lands and
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: waters really beat up on him in a in a
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: immediate way, so much so that he reeled back and
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: withdrew his legislation. Did it over Instagram and Facebook, and
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: it was I think a sign of the times, um
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: a sign of change, but also a strong reminder that
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: all of us still have an important role to play
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: in and every phone call, every email you you said,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: still matters. We saw that play out with the Great
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: American Outdoors Act as well. You know, despite some of
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: the urgency created with the political dynamics I described, the
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: most important thing that happened was that a lot of
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: people cared about it, and members of Congress knew a
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: lot of people back in their home states cared about it,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and that's ultimately what thrust it over the finish line.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: And I think we could see something like that play
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: out for Recovering America's Wildlife Fact too. We don't have
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the the unpredictable political dynamics at play, but we have
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: the important part in place, which is a lot of
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: people on both sides that care about this. Oh and
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: by the way, we have a whole bunch of state
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: agencies and tribal nations really pushing this ahead all at
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: the same time. So I might even argue and make
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: the case that Recovering America's Wildlife Act has a stronger
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: position to move this bill ahead than the Great American
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Outdoors at had because you have such a diversity of
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: really influential stakeholders working together to make it happen. So
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: I feel really positive about it. But also, you know,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: it's it's good to point out that everyone can still
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: make a difference in the romance of our democracy is
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: alive and well. And if I can communicate anything to
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: you and your listeners, it's that that's that's a good
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: place to pin hope on and and I'm really excited
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: about it. So what do you want to do? Job?
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: What what should we do in the short term to
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: make sure this thing moves forward even though it's early stages.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: And then what should we be watching for as the
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: like five alarm, you know, red flashing light to really
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: hammer down on it. What are the key times to
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: look forward to in the future as well? After we
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: get back from August recess, we should know more as
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Congress makes decisions. They started calendaring things at the committee
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: level for hearings and markups and things like that. But
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: the best way to stay abreast of that is to
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: UH go to the alliance website. UH the Alliance for
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: America's Fishing and Wildlife at our Nature u s a
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: dot com and find your favorite hunting and fishing or
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: conservation organization listed there and find the one you're a
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: member of. UH if you're remember of back country hunters
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: and anglers, come to our website. We have an action
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: alert setup supporting the legislation. It doesn't have to be us.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Find your favorite and go take action through their action system.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Pick up the phone, call your senators and your home states.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Call your member of Congress and whatever district you live in,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: and let them know this is an important piece of
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: legislation for you and that you want to see them
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: support it, move ahead and elevate a sense of urgency
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: with their party leadership in the House or the Senate,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: whoever you're calling, and we'll keep you posted as things move.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Our friends at the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: are during great job of of monitoring this and writing
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: hurt on it. And um, there's a lot of ways
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: that I think people can engage and participate that way,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: but you have to connect with an organization that you're
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: aligned with, that you're a member of, so you can
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: have a place to stay up to speed on these
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: things and and move ahead. And and I would give
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: a shout out to the National Wildlife Federation here too.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: They've been leading the charge on state wildlife action plans
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: and funding for those for a long time. I used
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: to work there myself and UH did a lot of
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: fly in supporting it, and so they've been an important
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: partner really helping leave the charge here. Congressional Sportsman's Foundation
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: UM is doing a lot, So check out their website
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: for a lot of places people can stay at the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: speed on it. But you know the fact that I
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: just mentioned National Wildlife Federation Congressional Sportsman's Foundation in the
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: same sentence shows you the breadth of people engaged in supportive,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: in leading the way on this. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: and uh, I'm I'm excited to uh to be there
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: with all the rest of the listeners and hunters and
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: anglers out there hoping to get the same across the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: finish line. So, John Less, there's anything else you want
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: to mention, I've I think we've got our marching orders.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it so much, Mark, thanks for finding some
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: time to talk about this. It's outstanding. I can't applaud
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: your enthusiasm enough. So UM, I'm grateful for the chance
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: to connect with you and your listening. Absolutely, hopefully we're
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: talking again here soon with an update and good news
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: on the horizon. I look forward to it. We'll be
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: there to let you know all about it. All right,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: And now we're gonna get to part two of the
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: episode with Mike over at Heartland bow Hunter. We're gonna
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: run him through the what would you do gauntlet? Here
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: we go, all right with me now on the line,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I've got Michael huns Sucker from Heartland bow Hunter. Mike,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: how are you? What's up? Man? A long time no talk?
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm glad we're getting to do this. I
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: think I think the last time that you were on
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: the main show. I know you've been on some of
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: the rut Fresh radio stuff, but the last time you
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: were on the main show was the very first year
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: of the podcast. Do you remember this? I think you
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: and Sean, You and Sean came on and we talked
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: photography and different stuff like that, and that would have
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: been two thousand fourteen. I think that flies man. Yeah,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel that long ago. Part of me, part
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: of me thinks it doesn't feel that long ago. Part
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: of me feels like it was a lifetime ago, but yeah,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: lots lots of change since they've had children since then,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and uh that usually makes things that Yeah, that's the truth.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: So how how old are You've got two boys? Right?
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: How old are they now? Yeah? Yeah, I got two boys.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Camden who's almost eight, he'll be eight in a couple
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: of weeks, and then Noah's five, So really getting into
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: that fun stage. I kind of have enjoyed all the
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: all the different stages, but as they get older, you
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: just are able to do more with them, and especially
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: with our lifestyles, that just makes it easier with travel,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: with the stuff outdoors and everything. They you know, they
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: really enjoy it. So yeah, definitely that's experienced, Sames. Things
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: are Our boys are three and a half and one
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: and a half now and still real challenging a lot
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: of ways. But just get creative about ways to get
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: him out there and keep them involved and make it
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: a family thing. And it's been good. It's been good.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: But no shortage of uh, I don't know, interesting disasters.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I think I think would be different. Right, it's a
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: completely different experience. Yeah, that's the truth. Well, what I
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: was wanting to do today, like is run you through
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: something I've started to do with a handful of people
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: and I call it my what would you do gauntlet?
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: So the idea here is that I'm going to present
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: to you a specific situation, like a very specific set
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: of hypothetical circumstances, like you're in this place at this
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: time and this thing is happening. What would you do?
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: And then the idea is to try to have you
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: explained to me how you would take you know, what
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: you would do, why you would do it, how you'd
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: handle that situation, and kind of talk through your thought
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: process and and what steps you would take. Um. It's
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: just kind of a different way for us to get
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: a glimpse into your mind and your deer hunting approach
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and all that. So that's that's what I want to
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: throw at you. The questions are you game for that? Absolutely?
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: I'm always game for whatever. So then I'm gonna be
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: tough to like the answer, but I'll give you one.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: That's all I can ask for. I'm gonna throw the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: most devastating doozies I can think of as far as
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: tough situations, and then we'll see how you'll handle it
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: and uh, and then there might be a couple of
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: softballs in here for you too, but I think it
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: should be fun right on. And then uh, you know,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: we'll wrap it up with some rapid fire questions. I
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: want to hear a little bit about what's new with
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Hartland bow Hunter, and uh, then I'll send you on
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: your way and we can start getting ready front season. Right. Oh, man,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: sounds good. So here's what I wanna start with, Mike.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: I want to kind of begin with the offseason, kind
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: of where we are right now. So let's say it's
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: August five and you are at a random diner somewhere
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: in Missouri and a random friend of a friend comes
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: up to you and he says, hey, you know, I
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: have this big family farm. We used to have some
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: guys that are releasing it. They just pulled out. They
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: can't do it anymore. Uh, it's a great spot. You've
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: heard about it. You know it's a great spot. And
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: he wants you to pick up the lease and pay
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: for it. And you know he needs that money for
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: his family. And he knows you're in a deer hunting
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: so we'd love for you to pick up the lease.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: But he says, hey, i'll give you the first year
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: for free, because I think you're gonna like it so much.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Come on out, check this place out, and then see
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: if you're interested in going from there. So you're presented
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: the situation. But it's August five, and opening day in
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Missouri is September, right, so you've got five five and
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: a half a weeks something like that. So my question is,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: in that situation and everything else you got going on,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: he would you take him up on this deal, assuming
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: that you've heard of this place and you know it's
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: pretty damn good, and then be assuming you do take it,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: what would you do in that five week period? What
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: are the most horton things you would do in the
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: next couple of weeks right away to get started so
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: late in the game at a new place. Yeah, no, uh,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: I'm never wanted to say no to a new piece
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: of property, So you can it seems like you can
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: never have too many options, especially when when one gets
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: stale and you've been hunting this specific you know property
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: and things aren't going your way. Sometimes it's good to
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: just you know, take a break, take the pressure off
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: that property, and jump onto something else. And so um,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: August five, Yeah, you know, a little late in the
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: in the game as far as uh, you know, prepping
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: for the upcoming season, but also not too late for um,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: even if you want to do some some food plots.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: So you know, my my number one thing would be
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: obviously to you kind of take a look at the
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: property from you know, from from the outside in at first,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: and you know, learn as much as you can about
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: what's available, um as far as food cover and water
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: and um, you know, see what limited resources there might be,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, try to improve upon those as much
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: as possible in a short window. Um. We're like right now,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: we're gearing up, you know for a lot of the
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: fall plot stuff, and um, you know you can plant
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: fall plots as early as you know, like August five,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: you can, you can, you know you can plan them
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: that early. Um, you just need to get the moisture
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: in the rain. And so what we do is typically
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: we'll kind of prep everything this time of year and
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: then just wait wait for the right time to plant.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, I mean, I I think you know,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: um number one, just kind of you know, look at
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: the the maps overview of the property kind of try
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, what what ways you might
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: be able to improve it. In that short window of time.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: And then you know, another thing I probably would like
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: to do would would be too um you know, obviously
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: get cameras out as soon as possible. Unfortunately, in Missouri
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: we can run cellular cameras. So if that's an option, Um,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: they've been. I mean, they're just there's a game changer
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: as far as um intrusion, you know, and and getting
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: in on a property and and so um, you know,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: get some cameras out, find out what, you know, what
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: quality of deer they're kind of, what areas there at,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: what what they're focusing on, and um, you know, and
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: then you know, beyond the food plots and the and
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: the cameras, obviously getting a few stand sites up. Um,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: you know, hanging new stands can be pretty disturbing. And
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: so the if you can get that done prior to
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: season to where you can give them time to settle
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: and and cool off and let the deer get accustomed
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: to stuff, then uh, that's a that's a good good
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: time to do it. So I think, you know, we
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: have always talked about when I hunt a new property.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: I love hunting in like a brand new property. For me,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: It's just like something exciting about learning something new. I mean,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: it's it's fun to hunt you know, traditional properties that
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you know and you've been hunting for years. But I
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: love just jumping in a new piece of property and
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: learning everything that can about it. So um, I always
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: like to kind of start from the outside and work
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: my way in kind of be non not too intrusional
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: that in the beginning, you know, and just um, scout
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: scouting is a great thing right now. Um so in
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: in the Midwest, soybeans, as you know are are kind
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: of the key of the summer, you know, the summer
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: being the summer the summer food source for the big bucks.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Um So yeah, So you know, this time of year
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: is a great time to scout from the road or
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: you know, pop into a field last couple of hours
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: at a daylight and with the wind in your favor
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: and kind of glass with the spotting scope and some
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: binoculars and really get a pattern on on deer. Um.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: They're just they're just so so patternable this time of
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: either so regular and then they're super visible. So um,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I honestly like August five, you say, gives
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: you you know, a little over you know, a month
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: basically too to uh to figure things out. But that
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I think that's ample time to really get dialed in
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: if you need to do when you say, you know,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: at the very beginning, he said, you gotta scout it
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: and figure out where the cover, where the food is, etcetera.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: At this period, would you, like, what would your scouting
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: look like other than the glassing, like the long distance scouting,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: but what about like on the ground pounding out the miles?
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: Would you would you walk every square inch so you
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: know it? Or is it too late and you don't
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: want to do that, you know, five weeks before the season? Um,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: what would that like specifically look like as far as
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: trying to learn what's actually there on the ground. Yeah,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I think you know you
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: could you can do that and get away with it,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: and and and and obviously you disturb it short term. Um,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know that you have
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: that much to gain as far as like diving into
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: the timber and like trying to find like rut spots
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: like I save that for you know, uh later in
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: October when or even in November, when you're the sign
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: is going to be so much more prevalent. You know,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have the scrapes, you're gonna have the rubs,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have all that, and so um really for
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: for me and early season in Missouri, I'm hunting fringes anyways,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I'm hunting food and that's basically we're not hunting mornings much. Um.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: You know, we're not diving into the timber. We're hunting
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: food plots. We're hunting you know, soybeans. Um, basically you know,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: fringe type stuff to where you can get in and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: out easily and you're not going to disturb dear, because
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: that's the thing. I mean, I love hunting. That first
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: week in Missouri season has been has been my most
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: effective week of the season for for targeting like a
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: specific buck. And it's one of those situations where it's
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: easy to get excited, right it's the opening week of season,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: and like you want to get out there and hunt
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: as much as you can, but um, I've kind of
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: learned over the years, like it's really better if you're
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: really trying to target one specific buck to just play
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: your cards right, wait for the conditions to be right,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: and then make your move and rather than you know,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: basically quality sets over over quantity. Yeah. So then you
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: mentioned that a lot of what you like to do
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: at that time of years or all around that food.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Is it safe to assume and you mentioned this is
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: one of the things. But what I'm thinking of five weeks,
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: very little prior knowledge, and also you need a quick
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: bang for your buck? Is that likely the very first
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: and most important habitat project you would take in a
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: situation like this, knowing not knowing much else about the property.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Let's just assume it's like your average Missouri property. Maybe
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: it's half crops, it's half timber, and a couple of draws,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: that kind of deal. Assuming that generic situation, is it
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: safe just say, like, if there's a spot to put
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: them in, you're gonna put something in. And then secondly,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: what would that thing be. What do you think would
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: be your quick bang for your buck, last minute plot
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: of choice for this kind of situation. Yeah, yeah, I
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: definitely I think that'd be the focus out of the gate.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna jump in and do any timberstand improvement
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: or uh does off any you know, places and or
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: build water hole. I mean that that's kind of long
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: term planning type stuff. And so UM, when you're talking
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: about bang for your buck, I mean, I I really
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: really like using planning Nebraska's um, whether it's turn ups
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: or radishes, UM, you know, different blends. Uh. They're really
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: easy to establish and it's a very small seed, so
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: you don't need a ton of equipment. So if you
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: don't have all the equipment, UM, it's not a big deal.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: If you can get that seed to soil contact on
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: bear dirt, UM, then you can get it a food
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: plot established. I love, absolutely love clover plots, and we'll
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: you'll find us hunting clover a lot during the early season.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: But as far as like you know, this time frame, now,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: it's you can plant some fall clover plots and the
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: clover will get established, but it takes some time. So
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get that lush clover plot um
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: planning it right now in the fall. So my my
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: go to sure be a UM, you know, a Braska
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: blend of sorts. UM. I really like the radish is
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: a lot like radish blends. UM. It seems like that
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: they hit the radish is a little a little earlier
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: in the year. UM, then then the turnups, But it
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: really depends. I mean everybody talks about that, like, you know,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: if you plant, you know, turn ups, they're gonna eat
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: the you know, eat the leaves prior to the frost,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: and then on the hard frost, you know, they'll then
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: they'll start eating them, eating the bulbs and all that
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: and stuff. And I think it really it just really
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: depends on the farm, the deer, the food tours is available, um,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: and and whatnot. So you know, we have we have
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: some properties that are super high deer numbers and you know,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: the food maybe a little more limited, and they will
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: devour turn up over Braska whatever like September fifteenth, opening day,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: like they're eating them and um. So you know, it
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: just kind of depends. But um, and then we've had
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: properties to lower deer densities and they won't touch them
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: until later in the winter when you know, all the
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: other foods gone and snow comes in. And so just
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: just really depends on the on the deer and what
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: they're how many deer there are on the property, what
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: they're used to, etcetera, the other available food sources. So
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: but that's this is a great easy to established plot.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like is is those smaller seed dipe plots
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: as opposed to planning grain. You know, you're too late
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: now for corn or soybeans or anything that stuff. Yeah,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: it's hard to go around with breast because, like you said, now,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: what about the stand prep you mentioned hanging a few
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: stands before the season gets going. Would you with those
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: first stands that you work on, be those kind of
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: edge spots that you talked about to focus on for
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: the early season, or are you wanting to get your
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: rut stots, some potential rut spots hung now so you
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: don't need to go in there at all ever again
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: until November one or whatever. What you know, what how
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: are you going to prioritize which locations you set up? Yeah,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, for sure, the first focus would be some
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: observation type stands, um and and even once you know
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: you could hang these stands and sit in them, you know,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: to observe the you know this this time of year,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: observed the you know, the movement of the deer, and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: then kind of dial in um. Like I said, you're
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: not gonna cause too much disturbance right now, but I
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: would definitely get some observation stands hung in some areas
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: where you know you can at least have a starting
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: point and then um, if you do learn from your
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: summer scouting, you know, an area of oh, say that
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: these deer are really coming out of this corner of
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: this bean field and they're focusing this little pocket you know,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: maybe hanging stand, you know, somewhere close to there where
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be, you know, somewhere within and within bow
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: range hopefully. Um, like I said, I wouldn't be too
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: gung ho about diving in and and looking for like
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: a primo rut spot necessarily, although just because like I said,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: that's the scrapes, the rub the sign is not nearly
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: prevalent and everything's overgrown this time of year. Although there
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: are some pretty obvious spots occasionally on uncertain you know,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: farms and properties where the topography and the um you know,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: the timber pinches down, or there might just be these
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: these great looking rut funnel type spots. And I would
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: not be afraid to uh jump in a hanging stand
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: in one of those, in one of those spots, just
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: to have you know, something has an option. Um. But
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: like I said, I mean, I I traveled quite a
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: bit hunt new hunts, some new properties, and you know
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of times I'm hanging my sands, you know,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the hunt, in the middle of
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: the rut, and you know, being minimally, you know, invasive
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: as far as like you know what, you're trimming and cutting,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: cutting stuff down. And I've actually found a lot of success,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Like first time in on the stand, you know, you
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: hang it and hang it and jump in and and
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: have a lot of success. So, um, that time of
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: year two, you know, the ruts starting to gear up,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: the bucks are a little more tolerable to getting bumped
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: around a little bit. So it's just like you can
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: get away with a little more that time of year.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: So back to the summer, um, back to the summer
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: scouting stuff real quick. And imagine we're leading into the season.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, I told you that you get
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: to have one night of summer glass the entire summer,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: only a one night, and if you don't spot a
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: shooter buck on that one night of glassing, you can't
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: hunt at all. I don't know why this will be
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: the case, but let's just say this is the case. Well,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: I present the storage because I want to understand, like
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: what the best situation for spotting a mature buck in
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: this summer would be in your eyes because there's a
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: lot of folks that maybe don't have a whole lot
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: of time to get away for this kind of thing. Right,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: They've got kids, they've got the day job, and they
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: can maybe get out just a couple of times of summer.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe the property they're hunting in the rut or whatever
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: it is, They've got to drive five hours to get to,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: so they have to be choosy about the weekend that
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: they choose to do this. So what would be the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: ideal scenario for you to get eyes on, you know
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: what you're hopeful shooter Buck would be in the summer
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: where what kind of place would you look for specifically,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: like the ideal scenario, what kind of day weather, what
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: kind of location would you pick to watch this spot?
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Um film me on? How you would handle that? Well,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, in a perfect old obviously evening um
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: evenings on the bean field, um, you know, if you
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: can find. I feel like those big mature deer um
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: tend to especially in areas where there's you know pressure
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: or you know, road traffic whatever, Like I feel like
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: they try they tend to hang near the secluded, more
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: secluded fields, UM where they can feel comfortable fields that
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: are maybe close to uh, you know, good cover and
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: and so I think that's kind of where I would
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: start as far as like trying to locate a shooter
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: deer is you know, where is their food that's close
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: to you know, really good cover that has secluded away
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: from you know, pressure, And so that's kind of where
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: I would start. And then you know, when it comes
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: to like picking a time frame, like you know, August,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: and we're getting you know, in in into August, they're
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: pretty well full grown. Um, you know, they're just kind
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: of finishing up. So like if you you know, you
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: get too excited and get out there and in a
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: June or or even early July, you know, they're not
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: they're not taking too much shape yet, so you really
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: won't know, you know a whole lot about them. But
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: they're by by August they're pretty well full grown. And
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: so um. The one tricky thing I feel like from
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: my experience is the weather. Um. You know, a lot
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: of times I feel like you and as hunters naturally,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: like during the season, we're like anticipating that like cool off,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: that cold front, that high pressure, and from my experience,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: like summer velvet like August time frame. Sometimes I feel
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: like that's will mess up, will screw it, dear up,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: and like I don't know why it maybe maybe it's
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: just that it shifts his pattern a little bit and
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: it changes his mindset and he starts thinking about the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: fall and does something different. I don't know, But for me,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: I've like in a picture of perfect world. If I'm
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: like trying to get say, we're gonna go out and
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: scout and try to video this buck I've been getting
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: pictures of. You know, consistency is is more important in
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: my opinion than a big change in weather. I think
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: if you get a boost, like right now today, it's
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: gonna be a hundred degrees here in Missouri where I'm at, Um,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: you know today tonight would not be at night that
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: I would want to be in the field, nor what
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: I think would be great you know for deer movement. Um,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: But if it was you know, gonna be in nineties
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: like it has been or eighty five whatever. Consistent like
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: consistent weather, I think produces kind of consistent you know
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: results in the deer. That's a really interesting point when
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about, but when I look back on
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: summer sightings. There's something to be said about that. Um,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: that's really interesting because I mean I just I just
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: remember early on like oh yeah, like this cold front
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: is coming through, like let's go out and like you know,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: let's go try to film with Elvet Bucks. And then
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: like you don't see hardly much at all, like what's
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: going on? Like I don't know, I don't know. I
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: don't know if I don't know if this is something
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: that other people experienced or not. But that's just kind
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: of Shaun and I have always talked about that. How
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: you know, you anticipate eight cold fronts coming during the season,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: but like even early season a little bit, I feel
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: like a big cold front can kind of be a
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: little a little wacky. Yeah, I've certainly seen, you know
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: when there is that consistent warm weather and you're thinking, oh,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't want to move and it's so high like this,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: and the bam, there they are, they're there night. So
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: something to it? Maybe what about what about this one?
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: And this is this is something that I wouldn't wish
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: on my worst enemy, but I'm gonna wish it on
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: you for the moment. Imagine, imagine you have a property
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: that for whatever reason, you could not get out to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: see it all. After you plan your food plots, so
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: you plant in your you know, mid August, late August,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: whatever time firm it is, you got those brassicas or
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: whatever you plan in the ground. You can't get back
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: to the property until September four. So it's the night,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: it's the night before opening day. You're heading in to
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: try to get your opening day hunt, and you've got
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: the weekend whatever it is. You get there that night
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: and you glass the area and you see that all
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: of your food plots, literally every one has failed. There
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: was a drought. It's just dirt fields. You've got nothing
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: planted that you put in, nothing's alive and grain and kicking.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: What would you do for that first weekend hunt? How
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: would you handle that situation knowing knowing nothing else? Well,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: that's like you said, you wouldn't wish it on anybody.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: But that's a pretty normal thing for for people. I
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: feel like, um, even for us. You know, we've um,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think it's probably been three years ago. Um,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: we got no rain, no rain, no rain. We planted
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: and got like a tiny little bit of rain and
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: then nothing afterwards. Since the food plots were just trashed
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: and so um crazy crazy enough, Sean and I went
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: up to hunt um man, I want to say. Yeah,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: it was opening weekend, opening weekend, and the plots were terrible.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: We we literally tilled them up and replaying them. We
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: had some rain coming, so it was like September and
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: so like we knew that these plots weren't gonna pretty
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: just like bulbs or whatever, but like as far as
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: like any sort of forge, you know, we were like,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna plan them in turnips and at
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: least they'll have the leaves to browse on. And um,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: so that's what we did. We planned the food plot
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: opening day of our opening weekend of Missouri season and
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: actually ended up coming back like two weeks later, very
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: end of September and killed the buck over one of
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: those food plots. So nice he was coming in. They
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: were just very you know, the the tournaments were really
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: really uh fresh growth, but they were browsing on them
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: and kind of just picking through them as they were
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: going out towards the destination field. So um, you know,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not uncommon that it's just a gamble
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: this time of year. Obviously, especially in the Midwest, it's
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: just hot and it's dry, and you know, the rains
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: come in spurts, and so timing it is is key,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: like I said, UM, and sometimes you just you can
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: do everything in your power to to uh get it
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: done and it still doesn't work out. So but back
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: back to kind of your your question of like what
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: how to handle that, Like, you know, not everybody's gonna
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: you know, go in and replant their food pots and
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: till them up. But um, hopefully in that case, like
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: you said, you know there are other food sources available, um,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: and you can focus on those food sources. The Midwest
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: is you know, corn, soybeans. Uh. We have a lot
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: of mature oaks, a lot of acorns, and so there's
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of food and brows you know, readily available
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: for for deer. So it just may kind of change
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: up your kind of your your strategy a little bit
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: and you may have to kind of, um refocus your
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: efforts on the existing food sources, uh and the other
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: the other food sourches that are available. UM. One thing
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: you know worth worth mentioning that's more applicable to too
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: late season. But uh, a lot of guys you know,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: like I said, don't have the equipment or the ability
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: to plant corn and soybeans and um row crops that
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: type of stuff. But one thing that we've done um
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: in the past is and actually we still do on
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: certain properties where you know, it just doesn't justify us
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: coming in and planting our own grain plots, is you know,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: we'll we will buy the grain off of the farmer.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: And so if a farmer is planting, you know, hunter
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: acre field and we wanted to leave two acres and soybeans,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: like when he goes and harvests, you know, harvest the beans,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: we know kind of the average of the field, and
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and we'll actually just buy those beans from him. Uh.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: And that's you know, for me, for us, you know,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: time is just a limited resource, and so uh it's
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: well worth it rather than us trying to plant our
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: own grain plots on all of our properties all across
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: the board. So that's something that I would encourage people
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: to consider and and at least talk to the landowner,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: talk to the farmer, um and and and consider that
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: because late season that is absolutely a game changer in Missouri. Yeah,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: but so you found farmers pretty open to that kind
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: of thing because I guess it saves them time anyways
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: as well. They get paid and they don't need to
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: harvest it. That's kind of a win for them too, maybe, right, Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: I saved him a little bit of time for the
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: harvest and at the end of the day, they're getting
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: the same you know, the same around of revenue and
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: and so it works works out. Well. Yeah, I like it.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: And then some of us, like you know, like on
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: our main property in Missouri that Shawn's dad is actually owns,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: and um, so you know basically that that farmer cash
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: rents from him and then he just basically takes that
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: out of the cash rent payment or whatever, just decreases it.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: And so, um, you know, there's always always ways to
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: work it out. But I think, you know, a lot
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: of people having those conversations with the farmers may may
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: change things. And Missouri is is is very interesting because
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: after the rifle season in Missouri, man, it's just a
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: different world. It's a different world here Missouri. Like I
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: remember just growing up, like thinking like I gotta get
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: my buck, my archery buck killed before gun season because
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: afterwards it's just such such a tough deal. Um. But
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: if you have standing grain and standing food that can
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: really really change the game. Yeah. Yeah, ditto here in Michigan.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: Um So, one more preseason situation. I want to run
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: you by, and this, I think this is something you'll
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: be able to relate to some from some past years
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: of hunting that I know you've had with some of
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: these deer. Imagine you've got a target buck who's eluded
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: you for several years. Let's say there's been two years
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: he was he was four and then he was five.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: In both years he slipped through your fingers weren't able
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: to get him killed. Now it's a year three with
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: this deer. He's a six and a half year old,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: and you're going into the off season thinking like, this
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: is the deer, this is the only deer this year
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: that I really want to kill, given the history of
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: the close calls, he's a stud. Uh, what would you
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: do in the off season different than everything else we've
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: discussed already, Like what unique tweaks would you make if
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: you knew you were preparing for that one deer? Um? So, yeah,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: we've definitely had these situations and scenarios, and I feel
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: like every year, I mean, like you mentioned, you may
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: not have had opportunity at this deer, but like we're
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: running cameras, we're seeing them on the hoof. You know,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: we're learning and learning more and more every year, every year,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: every year, and like we're kind of starting to put
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: those pieces to the puzzle together. And the more that
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: you learn about this deer, you learn about his habits,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: his you know, his frequencies, his home range, what you know,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: what he prefers uh different times a year. I mean,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: it's it's unbelievable the amount of information that we gather
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: just through observation and trail cameras. Um. And that's what
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: it's for me. I mean, that's that's what's all about.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: Is that whole process of of you know, people, people
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: that don't don't hunt and that don't you know, necessarily
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: managed deer or or follow deer year after year, don't
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: don't quite get. But it's just like, I mean, they're smart,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: they're very smart, and they're hard to kill, and you know,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: fooling one in his own game is kind of is
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: kind of the ultimate ultimate prize and so um. But
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: like you said, you know, if you even if you
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: may not have a chance at him, you're still learning,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: gathering this information, and and so going into the season,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: I kind of like to look back and say, Okay,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: like where have we seen this deer the most? Where
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: we getting pictured of them the most. Let's kind of
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: like map out his core area. And we've done it
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: to a lot of times to where all right, this
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: is this deer's core area here he really like hammers
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: the Braskas, or he really hammers the clover. Let's get
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: something established close to his core area where he's betting,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: where he's spending a lot of his time. And we've
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: actually set up like spots and food plots specifically for
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: a specific buck, just because we've learned so much about
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: him and we really want to go all in on him. So, UM,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: I know that it's it's been really effective for us
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: in the past. I mean killing killing a mature DearS
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: is difficult enough as it is, but if you can,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: you know, put the food that he prefers close to
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: the area that he prefers to bed, and you know,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: get your set up in a spot where you know
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: you can get in and and catch catch the proper
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: win and and and pull it off at it can
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: be extremely effective. Um. Actually tie tie easily who's who's
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: on our show and films with us quite a bit.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: He actually killed his I believe it was his biggest
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Missouri buck to date last year and it was hundred
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: lower huch deer um, just a giant from Missouri. And
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: he had actually, just like I was talking about, had
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: been hunting this deer uh or Ben had been like
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: kind of watching him. He kinda uh. He was he
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: was five last year, so the year before he was four,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: he was gonna hunt him. He decided not to let
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: him go one more year. But even then he was,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: you know, paying attention to his patterns, you know, and
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: watching them and figuring everything out. And so he actually
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: came in, cleared off this area and planted a clover
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: plot frost seated it in the spring, and then came
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: back and overseated it in the fall. It was just lush,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: just perfect, and it was really close to where this
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: deer like the bed, and coming into season. He was
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: just he wasn't really really consistent on this clover plot um,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: and so he was trying to figure out man like,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know when when I want to hunt him,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Like he hasn't been consistent enough for me to hunt.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: But then he's like, man, then all of a sudden, boom,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: he shows up in daylight, and so he's like man,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: he's like, I, I ston't know exactly what to do.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: And he started looking into it and and he started
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: looking at the weather patterns and compared those two, uh
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: the times when the buck was showing up in daylight.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: And he actually went back to the weather history and
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: looked and what he found was when that deer was
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: daylighting in the evening, it was when the wind was
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: out of the east in the morning. And so when
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: that when that buck went to bed in the morning,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: and when when when when the wind was out of
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: the east, was when he would bed really close to
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: that food plot, and so he would come and feed
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: in at that evening. One of the tough parts was
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: is the eastern easterly wind was to the buck's advantage,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: so it was not a great wind for like the
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: for the stand he was hunting him at him he
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: really wanted like a north wind. Um is what he's
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: had to set a stand up for. And so he
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: kind of watched the observed and kind of you know, uh,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: played it, played its safe, and then he finally got
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: the weather, he hunted a couple of times, didn't see him,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: and then you know, a few days later, got the
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: weather perfect to wear. It was actually an east wind
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: in the morning, switching to a north wind in the evening,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: and he was able to slip in there, and sure
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: enough the buck showed up and he shot him, shot
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: him right in that food plot that he built for him.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: So not much more of rewarding than that than when
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: you like really you know, figure it, figure out all
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: that information and you really put all that together, and
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's just cool because like there
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: is a science to it. There is uh, there's a
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: rhyme and a reason for everything that the white tail
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: deer does. And you know, I know that when I
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: initially got started archery hunting, like that was not something
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: that I ever thought about. Right, you're just diving in
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: your hunting, and of course you get lucky, of course
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: you can. During the rut. You know, anything could happen,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: and so like you killed deer and you learned and
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: and you figure it out. But like really dialing in
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: and really patterning a deer um, it's pretty cool. I
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: love I love when you can get that deep into it.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: You know, I kind of like this scenario you painted
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: with tie, So I'm curious how you would handle something
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: like this. Let's say you've got back to this target
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: buck circumstances. We've got this buck you've been after forever.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: He's the one, but all through Like let's say you
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: saw him in the summer, you knew he was there,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: you knew he was alive, he was around. Maybe you
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: got one picture of him in September, so you know
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: he he stuck around once we got into the fall.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: But now he's disappeared. He's he's just nocturnal, very infrequent
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: on your cameras, and nocturnal only. And that continues, that
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: continues at the beginning of the season, and it just
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: keeps on going. You're getting zero daylight pictures of him.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: You've had zero daylight settings of him. You've there's been
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: some nights that you couldn't hunt, but you got out
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: on the hilltop and you glass couldn't see him nothing.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: At what point, assuming zero daylight pick or in zero
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: daylight settings, at what point would you take a stab
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: at him, like an aggressive stab at him. Are you
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: gonna wait all the way till the rut and or
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: maybe again, assuming no daylight sign at all, would you
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: let that keep you out of the good stuff all
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: the way to the rut? Or would you take a stab?
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: If a cold front pushed through in mid October or
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: early October, laid October, what would be the thing that
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: would finally make you say, Okay, even though there's no picks,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: I gotta try because this thing is here, this date
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: or this weather or this whatever. What would that take? Yeah,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to say, Like, like early season
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: cold fronts can be can be insane, and um, they
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: can really you know, flip the switch for deer and
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: some you know things can happen to where, uh, you
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: may not be seen a deer for a long time
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: and not getting picks and then all of a sudden, boom,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: he's there. But also on the flip side, like when
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: you're just explaining that scenario to me, like in my head,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like I talked to a lot of people,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: We're like, yeah, I got this buck and he's just nocturnal.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: He's just nocturnal. He's coming, he's coming to the camera,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: but he's just he's not moving in daylight. And a
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: lot of times I have to say, well, you know,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: you got to think about the the situation and is
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: he really nocturnal or is he just not living on
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: your farm? Is he just living on the neighbors and
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: he's coming in the middle of night? Um, And that's
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: the case more often than not in my opinion. Um,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: I just don't think there's that many like purely nocturnal
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: bucks out there unless they're an extremely high pressured you know,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: public land situations are hyper even the high pressured you know,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: private land where a lot of people are hunting different
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: different properties, and he's he's kind of getting pressured from
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: all angles. Like there, there's got to be a pretty
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: good reason that that a deer's completely nocturnal. Most most dear,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: I don't care how old they are. I mean, if
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: they're not messed with and and and pressured, they're gonna
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: get up and feed in the daylight, um, whether it
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: be the last you know, twenty minutes or the last
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: hour and a half a day light. So I always
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: like to always, you know, like to ask that question,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: like do you think you know where he's living? Do
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: you think he's actually living close, betting close, but just
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: not showing up in daylight? Or do you think he's
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: just venturing from a long ways away? And so, um,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: you know, IM trying to think. We I've had bucks
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: that from running cameras year after year that literally we'll
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: shed their velvet and they'll they'll hold on, they'll hang
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: around for a little bit. But I had these these
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: two bucks that hung together, and one of them was
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: a really really big deer and every single year, I
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: think I had him up to like seven years old,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: and every single year actually no, he was no, he
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: was like nine. He was like nine years old, and
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: every single year he would leave and I'm not kidding
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: you would be like September, September. I think one year
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: was September, like I had one picture in the morning
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: of the fift and but never again. And then one
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: year when he was I think he was nine years old.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: Nine years old. Um, just an absolute monarch of a buck,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: like it was definitely out of his prime, and his
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: prime he was probably one, you know, eighties, and he
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: was like probably down down to one sixties, but just
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: a just a beast. And I'll never forget. I checked
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: this trail camera and I was like, oh my god,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: he was on here in daylight, this morning walking through
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: this like this like natural funnel, early season funnel spot,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I gotta get in there and
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: hunt tonight. It was like September eighth or nineteenth. It
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: was the latest he had been at stayed on the property.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: And I shoot you not, man. We got in the
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: three and here comes this buck and I'm like, oh
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: my god, like we're gonna kill him. He's walking right
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: down this trail um and he's just literally coming right
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: to us, like this is perfect. He's got like two
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: other bucks with him the sky. There's filming me. And
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: he gets to like thirty yards thirty five yards, and
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: he's quarter to me, but he's walking down the trail.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm getting ready to draw because he's gonna be
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: broadside at thirty and so like I just put tension
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: on the string and I'm just getting ready to draw,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: and up from behind him comes this this younger buck
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: and just rams him right in the ast started poking
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: them with his head, and in the buck runs off
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: like bounds off to like seventy yards, stops and like
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: looks back, looks around, and then just kind of wandered
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: like walks off out towards the destination field, but not
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: to where I have would have he shot and never
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: saw him again, never got to the picture of him again. UM.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: Actually a guy no ended up finding him dead on
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: the property that he would leave mine to go to. Um.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: He found him dead the following that following year. And
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: so it was that was like probably one of the
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: most like heartbroken moments of my of my like hunting
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: career ever. I feel like like just a chance of
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: a monarch like that, and then like dead to rights,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: like I was just calm, like just like, Okay, here
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: we go, this is gonna happen. Let's do this, and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: just to have something completely out of your control blow
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: it just like so frustrating. So what about this? What
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: about a situation with a similar outcome but different cause,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: which is let's say that bucks coming in and the
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: little buck behind him doesn't ram him, he walks right
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: into thirty yards. You draw back, you put the pin
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: on him, and you let go, but you miss him.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: You miss him. Dead to rights, he takes off. You've
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: been watching this buck for years and years and years,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: and your opportunities blowingly. How do you handle that? How
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: do you mentally handle that? Are you the type that
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: just all right, right back at him, back in the
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: tree tomorrow, getting after it. Or do you take some
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: time and just need to take a couple of days
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: and get your head right and do some shooting and
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: make sure you're confident again, Like what's that look like
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: for you mentally and physically? I guess yeah. I mean,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: I'm about as optimistic ause of a person as you'll
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: as you'll find for the most part. And so like
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm always just like all right, like you just
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: gotta get back after it and give it a shot.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: But it can be extremely mentally taxing. And I mean,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: let's be real, bow hunting can be a complete mental
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: mental game. It is a mental game and as much
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: as it is anything, honestly, And that's something that I
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I think just my my personality and demeanor
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: number one. But then also through experience, UM have been
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: able to really like really handle those emotions and that
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: and that excitement, that energy UM really well. And I'm
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: just lucky that I'm able to do that. I Mean,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: I kind of get really hyper focused in that moment.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: I don't get um nervous, I don't get like to
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: where I've I feel like I need to rush to
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: make make stuff happen. Like I just I feel really
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: calm and really focused in those moments, whereas a lot
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: of people I know are the opposite, where they'll get
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: flustered and they make decision decisions they shouldn't make. They'll
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: you know, they won't pick a spot and they'll pull
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: the pull the trigger and and just get caught up
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: in the moment. And let's be real, I mean, that's
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: that that excitement and energy is why we all is
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: why we're also hooked on it and so um. But
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: but for me, I'm able to really harness that until
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: I pull the trigger. And then the second I pull
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: the triggers, when I and when I get the big
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: rush of emotion. But um, there really isn't you know,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Just take confidences everything I think really
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: just being confident, and that that starts with practice. Um,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: that starts with you know, shooting them, shooting a lot
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: to where you know your arrow is I'm gonna fly
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: where you want it to go. And it starts with equipment, Uh,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: you know, having the equipment set up properly, understanding the equipment,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: especially in the world now where I mean, these bows
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: are very complex. The equipment we use as complex, and
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: so understanding it, having it set up properly, tuned properly,
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: and there's building that that confidence, um, I think is
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: where it really really pays off dividends. So so fast
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: forwarding a little bit then, UM, I know you do
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of hunts where you're you're traveling across the
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: country hitting this spot, hitting that spot. So you show
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: up somewhere and you've got a week or something and
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: you've got to figure it out quick. Let's say this
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: is like a buddy's farm that they've allowed you access
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: to the farm, but you don't have a history there, um,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: and and they're not going to help you out much
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: because they've got their own thing going on. I don't know.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe this is like a situation when you go hunt
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: with the Lindsay's or something where you show up and
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: you have access, but you're on your own. And let's
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: say it's late October maybe October, and you've got five
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: six days to hunt. You arrive on day one. What
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: I'm curious is how do trail cameras factor into what
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be doing, Like, do you have an immediate
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: like day one, midday I'm gonna go hang six cameras
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: in these types of places right away. Is something like
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: that on your agenda or or if not, what do
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: you do, like what does your trail camera situation look
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: like specifically in that scenario, if if you do at all? Yeah, no,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a pretty regular scenario for for me.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Um And I've done it both ways to where you know,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: like when I've hund it with the Lindsays in the past,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: Like you know, I usually will hunt like one of
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: one of Jeff's farms that they don't spend a lot
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: of time on, but they have cameras on and so
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: like my number one thing is like, all right, let
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: me go check the cameras because I can pull those
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: cards and I can learn so much about what's going on,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: what's happened in the past week. That's really all the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: matters in my you know, that time of year, like
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: what's going on this past week? What do you aer hitting?
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: What areas? What you know? Um, what what we're deer
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: focused and so like in that situation, that's an ideal
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: situation for me is there's cameras out I can I
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: can grab those cards right now and learn everything that's
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: been going on in the past week, and I can
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: make my you know, decisions based on that. Um. The
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: On the on the other hand, like if it's a
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: situation where it's a new it's a property, um there
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: are not cameras out yet they October that time of year,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: I still am gonna do everything I can to get
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: cameras out as fast as I can because as as
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: soon as you get them out, the quicker you can
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: start gathering information and learning. And that time of year
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: is like literally the my favorite time of year to
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: run trail cameras because of the deer are just smashing
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: the scrapes and so scrapes are where all of our
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: cameras are for the most part, I'd say him are
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: on scrapes that time of year, and you just learned
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: so much about um you know what bucks are hitting,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: what scrapes and what areas and even when like you
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: get later into the month November, you start to see
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: when bucks come out of lockdown, Like bucks might disappear
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: for three days and then boom, they're hitting a scrape
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: and you know that deer is is not with a
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: dough and you have you know, a window opportunity to
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: chase that that buck before he does find another day
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: and get locked down and so um, you know, I
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: I definitely would get trail cameras out as quick as possible,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: but also without being too intrusive, right because you can
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: obviously cause more damage than good. Um. Fortunately, you know
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of those those scrapes that bucks are hitting
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: and stuff are on the edge of fields, and um,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: you know some of the more you know, the bigger
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: you know, social scrapes maybe in the timber in different areas,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: but um, but you can you can definitely get get
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: away within some cameras out without being too intrusive and
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: learning a lot and in a in a short amount
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: of time. What's your ideal way to do that? Like
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: is that is the first midday that you get to
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: You're gonna go out there at lunch and drive a
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: truck around and hit every like find your six best
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: or four best or however many field that scrapes will
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: look good and put something up or are you putting
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: up cameras when you walk out to hunt for the
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: first time or what's that specifically? With maybe a little
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: bit of both. Um, it just depends on the property obviously. Uh,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: there's a really unique property that I I've hunted the
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: past two seasons in Colorado that is on the eastern
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: plains of Colorado. It's a white tailed property, so it's
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: more like Western Kansas type habitat, but um river bottoms
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: and just too great, really great like rut type of
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: type of farm. And um, it actually has a uh
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: they have water wells all over this this this ranch,
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: and there's people that are checking the wells pretty regularly,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: so that deer are actually like conditioned to a little
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: bit of vehicle trap and so um. There's also a
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: levee that runs along all the length of the river
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: for the most part. And so with that property, what
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: I did the very first time I hunted it, I
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: literally just went along that levee, which is the Levey.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: There's a road on the levee and those guys will, uh,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: those guys drive that road maybe once once or twice
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: a day. Um, maybe not the inner Levey every time,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: but there's an outer Levey too. But but anyway, like
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: the deer a little bit, you know, so they're they're
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit conditioned to vehicle traffic, so they're not
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: gonna like blow out of their bed or like freak
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: out if they see a truck. And so I went
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: along that levee and I found all these trails that
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: were uh, the deer were crossing the levee, and I
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: put cameras on like six different trails, and so I
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: knew that was and and in Colorado you can't sell
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: you sell other cameras, and so, um, I knew that'd
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: be an easy way for me too. I can just
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: jump on the truck, drive that levey, pull cards and
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: check the cameras, you know, every couple of days or
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: however often. But then you know, you might have a
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: situation with a farm where um, you know, it's not
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: as accessible with vehicle without causing too much disturbance. And
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: so in those situations, we definitely have uh spots where
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: we put trail cameras near stands that we don't check
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: those trail cameras unless we're going to that stand up hunt.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: And those have been like the first ones that we've
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: replaced with cell cameras as we've kind of gathered more
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: and more cell cameras over the years because those are
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: just super intrusive, you know, we would we would only
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: check the when we hunted the stand, and so basically
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't learn what was going on until after you,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: you know, set the stand, and so um so a
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: little bit of both. It just you've got to figure
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: out what you can get away with without causing too much,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: too much disturbance, and and roll with that. Yeah. So
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: let's move into November. And I've got two November situations
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people I think dread like. We
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: all look forward to the rut, probably most of us
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: at least more than anything else in the white tail season.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: But there's two things that might happen. They could throw
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: a wrench in your plans. Um. I'm curious if either
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: one of those, if either one of these would bumm
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: you out, or maybe you don't care and you'll just
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: keep on doing what you're usually doing. But here's one.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: Let's imagine it's the first week in November and you
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: get to your property and it is crop field. Let's
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: say let's say this is like a se of this
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: property of access to his his egg. The rest is
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: some draws and some timber and some stuff like that.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: But you arrive for your big rut hunt and it
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: is all standing corn. You've got several hundred acres of
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: standing corn everywhere. Does this change what you would normally
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: do for that first week of November? Or are you
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: gonna just do the same old, same what you're gonna
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: hunt your funnels or your dough betting airs or whatever? Um?
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: Or does that standing corn and make you say, Okay,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: I have to have to switch things up a little
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: bit because a lot of people will find that scenario
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: and say, ah, we didn't see any bucks because they're
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: on the standing corner. This is gonna be horrible week.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: There's all the standing corner, all the chasing is going
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: to happen in there. Um, how would that impact what
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: you think and do during that period? Yeah, that's a
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: tough that's a tough question. I I I've definitely had
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: that scenario happened before, and I you hear it all
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: the time and people like, they're in the corn, They're
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: just in the corn. And I think that's an easy
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: excuse for a lot of people. Um, you know, they
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: I've definitely seen deer, you know, utilize the corn to
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: an extent, but like it's not like it's not like
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: their preferred place to bed or there for preferred place
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: to run around and chase a dough through a bunch
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: of stocks, slapping them in the face. Like I'm not
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: buying into that at least. Um, you know, I I've
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: experienced it, but I don't think it's like a I
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: don't think it's like a go to thing for a
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: white til deer. So um, I do think for sure though,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: I mean they deer can you know, still bedd in
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: the timber nearby and still hang out of the the timber
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: nearby and then just pop out of the corn and
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: can eat you know, feet on the standing corn stalks. Um.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: Which even then though like that time you're they're not
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: that concerned about it either. So um, you know, I
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I don't know if I can
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: buy into that idea entirely. Uh Um. But I definitely
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: have experienced and it definitely is a situation where I
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: feel like it definitely subdues some of the activity that
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: you do see. So um, you know, still gonna hunt
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: the rut, you know, the typically good rut spots and
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: then just learn, you know from your observation. That's the
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: biggest thing is literally you know, every every day you're
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: in the stand, you're learning and you're observing movement here,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: you're figuring out, you know, more patterns of the deer,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: more what they're wanting to do. Um or you're observing
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: that through trial cameras either way, UM, but basically just
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: ingesting all that information that you can, you can the
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: most information you can will help you kind of make
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: a decision and try to figure out what's best. So
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: what's your you mentioned you would stick to your usual
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: good rut stands, like high level? What would that be?
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: What would you describe as like your ideal first we
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: can no I member type of set up he so
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: like it's I don't know. I think like the first
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: week in November, I prefer I like to hunt near
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: uh near green plots, a lot um areas where like
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: a big majority of the does are gonna be feeding
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: because those bucks know that and they are gonna come
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: there looking for that. You know, first few doughs to
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: come into heat. And then once I feel like once
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: you get into like that second and third week in November, um,
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: the second wee can November really you know, you start
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: to dive into the timber a little more. I love,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: you know, a good hardwood's rut spot you know that,
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: or you might get just crazy chasing and running activity.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: That's just kind of the pinnacle of the excitement of
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: the rut and so um. You know, obviously we look
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: for pinch points, we look for funnels, we look for
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: topography changes, whether it be like a saddle in a
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: big ridge or Um. I'm just thinking back to a
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: couple of years ago. I had a really really cool
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: hunt on November seven, back in the timber in the morning.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: It's basically on the end of a ridge. So this
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: big long ridge just runs and then it drops off
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: and a couple of other ridges kind of drop off
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: down into this creek, and so it's really a I
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: kinda I did. I did a hanging hunt initially the
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: evening before, knowing it wasn't ideal conditions actually was. It
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: was warm and it was really windy. Um, but I
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: knew that would be a good time to slip in
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: and hanging stand. And so I said and hung the stand,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: left all my stuff in the tree. We didn't have
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: a great, great hunt that evening, but I really was
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: hanging it for the next morning. Um. We left all
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: our stuff in the tree. The cold front blew through
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: that evening. Um, and really really drop the temperature. We
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: got in the next morning and actually ended up killing
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: his buck that that we hung the stand for. And
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: it was more of like a there wasn't necessarily like
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: a pinch or anything obvious, but it was more like
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: on the end of this ridge and kind of an
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: observation point to where you could see a long ways
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: um and you could be able to call to deer
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: to try to get a become come within bow range.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: But naturally it also just happened to be a pretty
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: good spot where that ridge ran out and deer were
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: kind of crossing through there because we had a great
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: hunt that morning, saw a bunch of deer and ended up,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: you know, shooting that buck actually kind of later in
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: the morning. Nice. Nice. What about this situation that I'm
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: curious if this would change what you're describing. What if
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: instead of the problem being standing corn, what if instead
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: the problem was your entire week that you have budgeted
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: for this trip is seventy degrees or eighty degrees, like
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: just the worst rut weather you could dream up is
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: what you've got, and you're stuck with it. What would
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: you do then? Does that change anything? Or are you
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: still going to do the same thing and just hope
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: that we can get some success in the mornings of
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: the evenings or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it gets a
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: point where it's like you just gotta go, right, you
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: just gotta you just gotta try it. And especially if
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: your time is limited and you have vacation set aside
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: or whatever that might be. I mean the ruts of
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: the ruts, so you know, they are gonna be there.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: They're they're not gonna quit rutting. Um, the daylight activity
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: definitely will be subdued by the warmer temperatures. But um,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: you know, in those situations it may be even more
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: crucial to kind of push the envelope a little bit,
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: get closer to those betting areas, get more um, deeper
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: into the timber because that movement maybe you know, very
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: very first and very very last light and I don't know,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: I mean that time of year obviously, when when even
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: if it is unseasonably warm, I think your morning is
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: gonna be much more effective. Obviously, they're gonna be cooler
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: in the morning. Um, they're gonna have been running around,
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: you know, through throughout the night, and so the mornings
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: are typically a little bit more effective when you do
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: have those warmer weather BRD hunts. I'm trying to think.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: I know I've over the years, I know I've I've
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: had some success for sure on warmer, warmer days, but
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: there's not one that really sticks out, uh in particular
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: to me, but just that it just once the clock
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: strikes November, it's like, all right, like you can get
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: away with a little more. It's time to get a
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: little more aggressive, you can. You know that there there's
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: definitely a there's there's definitely situations where you could be
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: too conservative, in my opinion, and sometimes it's just like
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: all right, like throw it out the window and go
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: and just try because um, at that point you rely
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: on so much on the deer anyways. That's why I like,
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: like I said earlier, targeting a specific mature buck like
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: during November is is very very difficult. Um, early season
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: is going to be that time. But then you know,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: there the time where your odds are best to kill
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: any mature buck, it's probably gonna be November, just because
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: their cruising, they're moving there, their guards down. Um, you
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: may not know which one it's gonna be, maybe one
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: of the three that you know about, or maybe when
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: you don't even know about. So it's just a different time,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: a year, completely different different style of hunting. Yeah. So
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: along those lines, let's go back to that three that
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: three year hunt for a specific target Buck again. Let's
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: say you end up, you know, seeing this book. Now
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: it's we're into November. You've been having encounters with him,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: but you haven't been able to close the deal. And
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: he's still like he's the one. Yeah, there might be
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: other deer coming through, but but you're dead said on
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: this deer. You've just you've invested so much time and
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: energy you can't imagine not shooting this deer. But we
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: get to the situation you alluded to earlier, which is
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: opening day of firearm season. It's it's staring right in
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: the face. Yeah, and you've got you are here on
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: the day before the opener. You got the last day
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: before the opener, and you're panicked. Maybe you're not panting.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's me. I'm panicked because my
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: last day before there's a million people out there with guns,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: and he's gonna get killed. Probably at least in my mind,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: I'm like, dang it, if I don't kill today, he's
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: getting killed tomorrow by someone. Uh, what's your mindset and
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: what do you do? Like, what how would you approach
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: that last day? Do you do you throw a hall Mary?
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: Do you do something crazy? Do you just stick to
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: the original plan? What do you what do you do
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: on that last day before firearm Listen? I'm I'm actually
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm a pretty aggressive hunter, especially during
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: the rup. But like in this situation, I am not
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: throwing a hail Mary. Like I think that's the worst
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: thing could do, especially if there's any chance this buck is,
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: you know, anywhere close to a neighboring property. Like the
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: last thing you want to do is bump him out
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: of his spot that he's comfortable with, push him onto
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: the neighbors where there's gonna be ten guys in blaze
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: orange blazing guns across there. So I'm definitely playing it
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: safe in that situation. Um, typically in those situations when
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: I just bow out and head to Kansas and then
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: let the let the Missouri property just be a refuge
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: for the beer during the gun season, that's kind of
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: our go to deal. But uh, but yeah, definitely I
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: would not be aggressive in those situations because that happens
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: a lot you know, you just people just they just
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: feel that pressure like, oh no, like I got my
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta get I gotta get this buck,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: I gotta get my opportunity. And then boom, you know
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: that buck has been so comfortable in his area and
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: you bump him out and uh, he may you know,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: venture off to somewhere else where he's not where he's
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: not as protected. But you know, the opposite could be
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: true as well, like maybe it's a buck that's really
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: living on the neighbors a lot, and you know, you
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: feel like you really need to get aggressive to make
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: that happen. In that situation, I could, I could see
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: that happening. But um but yeah, if you if you
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: got a pretty good idea of where the deer is
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: living and then he's living on you, then yeah, I
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: gotta I gotta stick to the original plane, all right.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: It takes some takes some self control, Mike, I'm impressed. Well, yeah,
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not much of a panicker, but yeah, Sean,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: Sean would be pretty panicked. He's he's uh, he gets
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: the anxiety when the Orange Army comes out, for sure. Yeah,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: I can take a few years after life that's for sure.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: I know, it's just one of those deals, man Like
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: it is what it is. It's at the end of
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: the day, like there's only so much that that we
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: can do, so much that's in our control. And you know,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: we we've been doing doing this a long time. I've
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: been bow hunting white tails for I mean over over
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: twenty years now. And you know, we've been seriously managing
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: for deer for i'd say, you know ten and so, um,
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: that's a really rewarding process. We've been trying to in
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: Missouri get deer to to to the ripe age of
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: five years old. And it's just very difficult to do.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: And um, but when when all works out, it's it's amazing.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: But to to your point about the you know, the
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: rifle situation, I actually passed up as was two falls ago.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: I uh, we had this just beautiful, beautiful four year old.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: He was a three year old, probably mid sixties, three
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: year old, a bunch of trash. This monster frame didn't
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: have a big growth here three to four. He was
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: probably one seventies, lower seventies, so he probably grew like
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: five six inches seven inches whatever. Um, And it was
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: like a but a hundred seventy inch four YEARL I
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: mean hundred seventies a year. I haven't killed that many,
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: hundred seventies a year. That being said, I don't get
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: too caught up on that, Like I'm not like, oh,
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: I gotta you know, past this year, so you have
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: b you know, twoes. But I just would just like
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: to see him, see what they can do, and that
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: this deer had that potential. And so I can't remember
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: what it was November, early November. Um, I had him
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: come in chasing a dough, just grunting, running all over
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: the feet plot right in front of me, just incredible,
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: comes right into the tree, makes a scrape at like
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: five yards and just an unbelievable hunt, and uh let
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: him walk. And the next week got shot by the
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: one of the neighbors. And I was just like, oh,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: I was just like had the wind out of my sale.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: I was like, man, like I'm not, I'm not. I'm
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: not passing up those opportunities anymore. Like I just I'm
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: not gonna do it. Like if it's a if it's
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: a big deer that gets me going that I'm excited
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: to shoot, like I'm gonna shoot him. Like enough to
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: you're gonna enough to you're still gonna make it to
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: five and six and seven years old because they're just
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: smart and it's inevitable. So I was like, you know,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing that again. And so actually the buck
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: I shot last year Missouri, just a beautiful hundred and
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: sixties something hunting low sixties and he was a weyear old,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: he was a dear. We knew it was for had
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: potential to be who knows what, but uh, I just said,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it again. And
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: so that's actually the the buck that I shot last year.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: So I can't blame you for that. Man. If it
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: if it gets you pumped, let her rip. That's right. Yeah,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. And yeah, I'm all for that that stuff.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: You know, we get a lot of people that are like, oh, yeah,
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: you guys, your name and dear, and you're you're getting
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: caught up on the age and this and that, and
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: you know, we're in a different position than a lot
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: of other people. Uh and and that's kind of what
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: we like to do. And we you know, we get
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: to we get to spend a lot of time out
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: there managing our properties and doing stuff and so that's
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: that's what makes it exciting for us, and so that's
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: why we do what we do. But then you know,
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: we go on different hunts where we're hunting piece of
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: property we've never stepped foot on, and we run some
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: cameras and our expectations are a little bit different. Or
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: you know, Sean last year drew a he drew his
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: Iowa tag and went hunted a hunt in public land
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: in Iowa, and um, obviously expectations were different. He wasn't
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: gonna hold out for five year old, you know, a
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: hundred or whatever. He was going to shoot the first
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: thing that you know, made him happy that he thought
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: was a good representation of the area and the and
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: the property he was hunting. So you know, it really
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: is circumstantial in my opinion for sure. So I want
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: to I want to run you through now some quick
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: rapid fire questions. So these will be like a very
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: simple like yes or no answer or this or that answer, um,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: and we'll just run to this really quick one up
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: to the other. Okay, okay, all right, does the moon
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: matter to dear movement? Yes or no? Yes? Would you
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: take a fifty yards shot at a white tail with
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: your bow. Yes or no? Yes? If you could only
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: have one of these for the rest of your life,
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: would you rather have a set of rattling antlers within
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: the tree or a grunt tube? Oh, grunt tube expandable
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: or fixed blade broadheads expandable. Should you stop a buck
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: with some kind of sound before shooting? Yes or no?
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: If he's yes, if he's not already stopped. I want
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: to expand on every single one I'm gonna give you.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you the pass on that, this one,
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: This next one's gonna get you in trouble. Which state
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: has better deer hunters? Kansas or Missouri? Oh, I gotta
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: gotta say Missouri. Okay. And here's one last one. This
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: one you can expand as much as you want them.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: Imagine that I am all powerful, I am in control
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: of hunting across the country, and I'm going to tell
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: you that I'm going to take away your hunting privileges
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: for the next ten years. You cannot hunt again for
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: the next ten years at all, unless unless you kill
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: a five year old buck this year. The problem is,
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: you only have one day in one spece ofific location
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: that I'm gonna allow you to hunt on and you
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: have to kill a five year old buck to keep
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: your hunting right so the next ten years. So it's
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: the very high stakes hunt. So tell me this, Mike,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: what specific date would you pick for this hunt? And
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: and paint me the picture of the very specific location
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: you would choose for this important hunt. Oh boy, that
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure. Um, just based on stats
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: and history, I'm gonna have to go with November seven. Um.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: That has been that has been the most productive day
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: of November for me throughout the years. I feel like
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: and oh man, as far as you are we talking
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: Missouri here, I guess you can pick anywhere you want
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: to go, oh man, anywhere, anywhere anywhere. You know what
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: if I if I had to choose anywhere, it's gonna
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: be Kansas, um for sure. And I'm not there usually
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: on November seven. But as far as just like odds
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: of killing a mature deer and on in November, like
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: that is um. The area that I hunt out there
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: is creek bottoms and draws and very a lot of
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: open you know, pasture ground and and tillable agg fields
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: and so just sets up perfectly for right hunting. Just
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: everything is a pitch point essentially, um the deer are
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: literally just cruising up and down checking these pinch points.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: Kansas is also a bait states. So most properties that
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: we're hunting Kansas UM or at least running either cornpile
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: or feeder um, which not necessarily that time of you're
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: hunting over it much at all. Really, it's just keeping
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: an eye on what deer in the area, so you've
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: got a good idea of what you know where to
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: hunt on, what farms, and what placed the key on
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: so um Man. So this this specific spot that I'm
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: kind of thinking of is a spot that I uh
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: I killed my Kansas deer two years ago. Um. And
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: it's basically a river bottom by an old homestead that
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: kind of runs through and it crosses this old road
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: and it basically it butts up to these big rolling
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: like almost like uh not sand hills, but like the
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: flint hills, like the kind of the flint hills of Kansas,
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: and these deer will the bucks will kind of push
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: dose up into these up into the flint hills, into
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: these like little cuts and little cedar draws. But then
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: they always come down to the river down when they
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: are seeking dose. And so this is this particular stand
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of just a great observation point you
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: can really see to call long ways, you can even
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: decoy um, but also you get the it's kind of
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: a all in one. It's the rut funnel. It's a
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: observation spot and it's a decoy spot. Kind of all
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: all kind of intertwined into one. I like it. I
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: like your ads, Mike and uh and with that you
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: have you've made it through the what would you do gauntlets?
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: So well done and all right for for folks that
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: want to see what you guys have got going on
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: with Hartland bow Hunter? Where should they? Where can they
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: watch the show working and they see your other videos?
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: How can they follow on? Yeah? Pretty much? I mean everywhere. Um,
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: you know we uh our new season the show season
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: fourteen is airing right now on Outdoor Channel. New episodes
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: are dropping each week. Are primary is Thursday at nine
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: thirty UM. Obviously social media is the best way to
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: kind of keep up. Instagram and Facebook kind of keep
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: up on the up and up on what's the latest,
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: what what new videos are dropping? And then we have
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: a YouTube channel as well. We're putting out regular content there.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: We produced produced a couple of different digital series there. So, um,
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: we're on Amazon, Amazon Prime, we're on um vhex digital download,
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: pretty much anywhere iTunes, um, anywhere content can be consumed,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: and so uh if we're somewhere where you consume content
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: and we're not there, then we need to know about it. Awesome. Man. Well,
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: I can't recommend yourself enough. I uh, for years and
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: years and years have been following what you're doing, and you,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: guys never cease to impress. So keep up the good
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: work and thanks so much for taking the time to
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: chat today. Yeah. Absolutely, man, it's always good catching up.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: It's uh, we go go way back. I still think
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: back to the eye. Would I would do your classic
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: days in the A T A days back in the day.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: Oh man, we're just a couple of kids back then.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: I know. I believe you were camping in the car
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: in the car one one year correct, Yeah, that was that.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: That can to mind this morning when I was thinking
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: about our chat today, was like I remember back in
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: the day, sitting at the bar chat with you and
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: then going back to sleep in the parking crotch on
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: that grind. Man. But people don't get come along. Yeah,
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: they want to get they want to get started, want
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: to want to be involved in the industry. It's not
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: an easy one, but you gotta you gotta be willing
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: to do what it takes, and you gotta be in
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: it for the right reasons, every big thing. Yeah, for sure,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that we're still both here doing it. It's
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: been a lot of fun, so it wouldn't have it
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: any other way, that's for sure. Well, thanks buddy, Let's
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: let's do it again soon. All right, until next time,
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: see Mike. All right, and that's a rap. Thank you
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: again for tuning in. I will just remind you to
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: please follow John's advice from the beginning of the podcast
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: and make sure you stay tuned on all things recovering
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: America's Wildlife Act. Make sure you're learning about the updates there,
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: join a conservation organization, or get on the newsletters you
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: can stay up to date. Send an email or a
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: note to your representatives, your senators, and stay tuned because
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: as this thing moves down the line, we want to
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: be able to jump on it and take action immediately
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: when it's most impactful. And I'll be sure to keep
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: you all updated as well. Secondly, make sure you're checking
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: out everything from Heartland, bow Hunter, their show on TV,
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: their YouTube channel, uh, social media, whatever it is. These
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: guys are doing great work. I know you'll enjoy it,
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: and I personally at least want to stay up to
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: speed on what Mike's got going on this season and
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: hopefully he'll put a couple more bucks on the ground.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: So that all said, thank you all for tuning in,
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: appreciate it, and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.