Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / NEWS! Cardinals trade Sonny Gray to the Red Sox

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NEWS! Cardinals trade Sonny Gray to the Red Sox · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Here you are.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome to an emergency edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: The Cardinals made a big move today. I'm Jim Hayes,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: joined by Matt Holliday and Lancelom. We're going to try
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: to break this trade down for you folks at home,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: just the basics. Sonny Gray Waves is no trade clause
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: dealt to Boston for two pictures. We're talking about left
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: handed prospect Brandon Clark and Dick Fitz, a twenty five
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: year old right hander who has made fourteen big league
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: starts in his career. Thank you for smiling, gentlemen. Thirty
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: one million dollars for this year for Sonny, plus ten
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: mili for the buyout, and the Cards are going to
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: pay twenty million dollars of that. So those are the details.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Matt Holliday, you have a big grin on your face.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts?
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Well, he took some liberty. He's he's listed as Richard Fitz.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know that he told you you could call
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: him Dick, but I guess you took some liberties at that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: I think Look, I knew the quality of return was
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: going to depend on the amount of money the Cardinals
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: were willing to pick up, you know, so I think
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: in twenty millions a lot.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, throwing twenty million dollars on top of Sonny
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Gray makes me think that they're very pretty excited about
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the two prospects they got back. I looked at the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: notes about the lefty, the young lefty. They got ninety
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: seven ninety eight miles an hour on his fastball from
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: a lefty. I haven't seen Dick pitch much, but I
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: gotta think that they're pretty high on these guys to
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: give a picture his quality of Sonny Gray and throw
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: a twenty million on top.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: So with Clark, he's a big kid, lands six four
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: two twenty again, good fastball, good sweeper. And Fitz is
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: a guy who has some major league experience. I think
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: he might be rotation ready if that's the direction that
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: the Cards go. Just sum up the trade for us?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: What what are what are your thoughts?
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: I think he had a high upside lefty, to be honest,
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: but you also have a lot of walks there. If
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: you look at his numbers, there's quite a bit of uh,
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: you know, command issues. But you know he's young, he
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: throws hard, so maybe he can hone some of that
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: in I think they're both projects. I think when you
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: look at what they've done with their stuff, entails and
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: stuff like that, they've got a chance to, uh, you know,
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: be big league pieces. Fitz has already been there, but
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: he's dealt with he's dealt with some injuries. I think
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: he's got some uh some deception issues that he might
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: need to clean up to help his stuff play a
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: little bit better. It's got a you know, he seems
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: to struggle a little bit with some deception and and
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: all that stuff. But I think that the Cardinals are
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: trying to kind of trying to get swinging to miss
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: young stuff, and you know, they think they got that
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: with him.
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: You know, it's a wait and see.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: I think the left he's got a chance to be
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: big upside, And I think Fitz is kind of what
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: he is. Maybe he had a you know, had a
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: pitch here and there to kind of get you know,
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: get him some more deception and get him a little
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: different look on maybe a right or lefty of things
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: that he's struggling with. But I don't think either one
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: of them are big league plug in place.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: Yet. There's there, you know, there's a work on both
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: of them.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So Sonny was a teammate of yours, Lance, He'll be
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: thirty six. And as Kyle Gibson likes to say, I
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: don't know where he gets it. He's not here with
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: us tonight, but he likes to say he gets the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: forty one million dollar.
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: Bag.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: But Sonny's gonna be thirty six. I don't know what
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: what age never caught up with you, Lance lnn, but
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: it does sometimes with with other players. What do you
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: think the Red Sox are getting with with Sonny Gray?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: They were looking for front of the rotation guy. He
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: certainly fills the bill. I don't know if he's one two.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: How do you look at it?
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean they've got a one in Crochet, So
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: whatever Sonny brings to the tables a plus for them.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: And they've got guys that have pitched well enough to
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: be two's there already on their rotation. But Sonny's got
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: back to back two hundred plus, you know, two hundred
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: strikeout seasons, so his stuff is still there.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: Swinging this is still there. He's able to do the job.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: So I would say in Boston it's a little bit sunnier,
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: and in Saint Louis is a little bit grayer in
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: my opinion, no.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Matter how you look at Sonny Sonny I light.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Just a second. Sonny and I play together in New
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: York as well, so just I'm also a former teammate
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: of Sonny Gray. How do you know? How do you know?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to get to that. How do you
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: know I wasn't going to get to that?
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: Like, oh, I was teammates twice. I was twice.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I was just listen. I was just going back to
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: back with Lance and then I was gonna follow up
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: with Like Sonny Gray was top five in baseball in
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: terms of strikeouts to walk ratio, still very effective. Matt Holliday,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: he's a former teammate. I think it was in New York.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: You you played with Sonny Gray. Just your thoughts on
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: on what the Socks are getting.
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I think, like Lance said, they have Garrett Crochet and
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: you have Brian Beao, and then you can slot Sonny
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: two three. I mean, I think the American League, he's
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: just continues to get better. I mean, I'm waiting for
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: for Jackson's Orioles to start jumping in the mix on
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: some of these guys and and and started elevating maybe
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: some of their starting pitching. But it's a it's another
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: you know, like Lance said, he's still striking people out.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: He slots in. I think he likes. I think you'll like.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a great place to pitch, I
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: mean obviously with the with the Green Monster being so close,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: but I think he'll he'll thrive in that in that environment,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: especially not happened to be the ace. He's a great guy,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a great teammate. So we'll see. But I I for
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the Red Sox to get you know, Sonny Gray and
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: twenty million, so they're basically, you know, for that value.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I'm I hope these guys turn out for the Cardinals
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: because that's pretty good value for a picture of Sonny's caliber.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: And that's a lot of money for the for the
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Cardinals to pay. But you know, I'm bloom took over.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: This is really his first major move. Lance, he said,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna get right to it. He's gonna be aggressive,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and again he's trying to balance short term with long term.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: He said today when addressing the media though that sometimes
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: if there's sort of a jump ball, they're gonna dress
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: long term. This is certainly or on face value, seems
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: like a long term move.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, here's the way you look at Okay,
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: they got rid of forty.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: Million dollars off the book. That's what he was going
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: to cost him. They gave, you know, and they gave
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: twenty backs. So they've got two pitchers. One big left
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: you with some upside. The other guy's kind of like
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: a probably back of the rotation, ceiling guy, probably a
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: mid reliever, big league caliber, ready guy, probably has some
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: stuff he needs to clean up, especially mechanically just to
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: stay healthy because he's dealt with some injuries. And you
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: have twenty million dollars that you can kind of maybe
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: go after some free agents. So all in all, it's
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: a wait and see, especially maybe if they reallocate that
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: twenty that they that they got off the books for
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: maybe two or three, you know, guys that they can
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: play tune with or reliever or something here and see
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: where it goes. So it's definitely a wait and see.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: But when you're pretty much getting Sonny Gray for one
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: year for twenty million dollars for two prospects, I think
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: that's a I think that's a good deal for Boston
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: to be honest with you, so, but it's a wait
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: and see on the Cardinals side, and they got a
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: little extra extra cash to add hopefully to their team
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: this year to see where it takes them and Matt.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: When you are dealing with younger pitchers who haven't established
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: themselves at the big league level, I think Lance has
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: it right. It's it's wait and see. And I think
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: if you're the Red Sox, you have to see how
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: thirty six year old Sonny Gray adapts to pitching in Boston.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: But face value, it sort of seems like both teams
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: accomplish what they were looking to. Would you agree with that?
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that you know, they said
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: they're gonna try to trade Nolan, They're gonna try to
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: trade contrarists, They're gonna try to trade Sonny. Like I
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: said earlier, they're gonna have to eat money to get.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: The more money that they that they eat, the better
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: return they're gonna get. I mean, that's just, you know,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: kind of how it goes, especially with players that are
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: getting into their mid thirties and and and so they
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: have some money. The payroll is not going to be
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the pay roll is not going to be real high
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: especially if they were able to unload uh Contrarasts and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: and and Nolan so that they can give away some
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: money to try to build uh their prospect uh group,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: build build the you know, because it looks to me
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: like you know, they're aiming for for getting back into
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: things in a year maybe two. And so these are
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: these are adding prospects to the guys they like already.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Again talking about the lefty, he hasn't I don't think
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: he's made it out of a ball yet. He's twenty two,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: So you know, there's obviously Lance talked about the command issues. Uh,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to be learned, I think about for
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: the lefty for sure. I mean, at least the the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: fits uh kids is pitched in the big leagues a
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: little bit so. But I think you'll see a similar
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: type of trade when it comes to to Contraras and
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: and Nolan, where uh they'll probably pay down some of
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: the money to get young a ball, you know, prospects
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: would be my guess.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Matt brings up a great point. What will the next
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: shoe to drop? B what's it all about with the Cardinals.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about that when we come back. You're watching
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: an emergency edition of Cardinal Territory.
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• 11:28
  Speaker 2: we were talking before the break about what are the
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: next moves that Heim might make. Glance. I'm gonna go
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: with you, all right, Ronado. I think it's kind of
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: definite that he's gone. Him has even said it. Ronado
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: says he's on board with it. I think the interesting
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: one and him mentioned it today that things are kind
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: of on the same track as that we're right after
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the season with Wilson Contreras, except I was here at
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: the end of the season when Wilson said he wants
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: to stay. How do you see that going.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: I see, if you're getting rid of Sonny, you're gonna
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: get rid of Nolan and h and Wilson if if
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: if there's a deal there that makes sense for both sides.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: Obviously they have no trades, so I think that you're
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: gonna see maybe one of those guys tied in with
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: an arbitration guy that has some value, but they're also
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: looking to maybe cut payroll and becoming to the end
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: of his arbitration years. It might be a free agent,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: so maybe they'll get a little bit back prospect wise
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: and or not have to eat as much money, So
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I think that's kind of the play. Moving Sonny was
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: your your chance to get it. You know, a couple
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: of prospects back and they were able to throw some
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: money in, So you know they're gonna throw money in
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: with what they got going on.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: Maybe they throw an arbitration guy. That's that's you know,
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: that's coming to the end of.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: Arbitration years, about to be free agency and then going
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: from there.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: What do you see as the next possibility, Matt Holiday, Yeah, I.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Mean, I guess it just depends on how fast you know,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: each each market moves as far as you know, who
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: needs what. I also read in the notes that they're
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: talking about, you know, lefties and the teams are showing
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: interest in in Jojo and possibly acquiring him. So I
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: think there's gonna be a lot of trades. I think
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals are gonna make a lot of trades. I
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: think this is the first, you know, shoot a drop
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and and then I look, I think it's probably I
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: would say it's probably Contrarast's to go next, because I
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: think Aaron Otto's deal could come down to where Alex
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Regman ends up, just like it did last year. If
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: he ends up back you know, with the Red Sox,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: then then maybe some other places. But if he you know,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: if the Red Sox aren't able to resign him, Uh,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: could could they revisit that trade?
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: Uh?
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: That that was kind of talked about last year. I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: think that's Nolan's preference, if, if, if that could be made.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: But I would say it's probably contrasts just because I think,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: you know, no one relied heavily on what Bregman does
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and maybe a couple other guys.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: You've played in in the big leagues for a long time. Match,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: so I'm going to double up on on this one.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: You're a veteran guy and you have a no trade
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of reasons why you might say
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I want to stay. You know, maybe it's leverage. I
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: don't know, but Contreras has said I want to stay.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I haven't completed my mission. I like the young guys.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I want to help them get get to the next level.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: As a veteran major leaguer, what would change your mind
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: about a possibility of a trade one you have a
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: no trade clause.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think a lot of things could
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: could come into the factor. What what what city is it?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: You know, what how good, how big, how good a
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: chance did they have to win the World Series? In
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: your mind, do you have friends on the team, if
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: you talk to your family as your wife and kids
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: on board with certain cities to move to, or are
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: you just flat out comfortable with where you're at and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and you signed in Saint Louis to be there the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: whole time and bought a house and you're just gonna
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: ride it out. I mean, maybe that's his his stance.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think if if winning the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: World Series and and uh and and and playing meaningful
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: games in September October and and the Cardinals are sending
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: sending signals that that that's probably not this year, Uh,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: then I think for a guy like him, then you know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: like again, the city, the players on the team, maybe
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: an extension. I don't know. All those things can change
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: your mind about wave your not trade clause, but I uh,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see. Maybe he just wants to
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: be in Saint Louis and sticks to his guns and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and uh just comes back.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I was hoping that while Matt was talking, Lance would
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: tax contraverse and say where you at with this? But uh,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: you were inmates with him. What do you think he's
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: going to do? Do you think he was just saying,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: you know, because he's been here a while, he likes
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: playing in Saint Louis. He wants to say. Is that
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: something you can sort of talk to him about and
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: kind of get him to move a little?
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: I think what it comes down to it is if
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: you look up and you're the last one standing, if
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: no one's gone and Sony's gone, and there's a chance
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: for you to have somewhere to win. I think that's
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: where it's like, Okay, I should probably go too, I think.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: And Wilson's a guy that he likes where he's at.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: He's comfortable, he's at he's he likes the people that
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: are around you. But when the people change and then
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: that you are, when the vibe is pretty obvious what
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: it is where you're the last guy saying, and you're
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: going to change your two a little bit?
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: Uh, That's the way I see it.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: He You know, he's a he is very locked into
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: what he's doing and and the and the way he
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: wants to go about things. And I think during the
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: season that's where he was thinking. He's like, Hey, I
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: don't want to be anywhere else that's who. But when
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: you look at it, it's like, man, maybe this is
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: it is time to go because there's no one left
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: that I kind of signed here with or things like that.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: So I think there could be a realignment, and as
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: thinking if the right team in the right place, people
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: that he knows are there to wave that note trade.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: When you hear lance the term prospect like Clark the
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: number five prospect for the right Sox you know is
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: age twenty two, or you know someone like Matthews with
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals, Doyle guys possibly for the rotation. Do you
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: think that there's sort of this, especially if you're rooting
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: for that team, this innate thing where you want to
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: overvalue prospects because sometimes the path isn't as quick as.
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: You would hope. Yeah.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you're a team in the rebuild or
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: retooling or whatever you want to call it, you're gonna say, oh, man,
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: look at this prospect. He throws ninety seven from the
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: left side, blah blah blah. So you're gonna obviously know
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: hype that up to give you something to build around.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: I think Matt and I have known anywhere you're at
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: if you've got a guy that's never played above A
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: ball or even in Double A or been to Triple A.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: You have no idea what anybody's about yet until they
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: get to those those levels to see certain things and
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: then they jump from Triple A to the big league
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: is even bigger, so on the prospect side of things.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Until I see them in a full year of Triple
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: A or or or that nature, you really don't know
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: what you have. So you saw that with Quinn Matthews
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: last year. He skyrocketed through the minor leagues and then
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: got sent to Triple A out of camp after being
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: a Minor league pitcher of the Year. And you know,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: the game got a little quick for him this year.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: But you know that could be a huge learning step
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: for him, so maybe that transition to the big leagues
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: might not be as harsh and he hits the ground
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: running there.
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: So but he had a little step back this year.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: So you got to wait and see on these guys,
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: and you gotta give him some time in the upper
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: levels against quality of honey, it's that are big league
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: ready and or are just as talented as them. Because
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: in the minor leagues and until you get the triple
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: as are you really tested? In my opinion, and then
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: the big leagues is even worse. So it's a wait
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: and see on all these prospects. But you can always
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: you always love a six foot four, two hundred twenty
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: pound lefty.
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: I will say that.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Holiday you. There was one time where you were a prospect.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: You know, you have one son in the majors. Another
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: kid is a prospect. You've been around a long time.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: You can't guarantee what someone's going to be just by looking.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: But if you're kicking the tires on a prospect, what
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: are you looking for?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think pure talent and stuff like
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you know, if this guy really does this ninety six
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: to ninety eight from the left side, that's a good
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: jumping off point. You know. Obviously, secondary pitches are very important,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: so I think, you know, the bones of his ability
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: are good. But it's like Lance said, I mean, you
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: have a lot of polish that you have to add
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to be a really good major league pitcher. I mean
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: he has to. You know, you have to command the ball,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you have to be able to throw your secondary pitches
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: in fastball counts. You have to have a strikeout pitch.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: You know, I think you the bones are great. But
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: like I said, the polish to me, like the makeup,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I'd like to. I'd love to, you know, kind of
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: know his makeup of of how you know, how competitive
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: he is, his work ethic, how much he loves baseball,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: how much he loves his craft. You know, all those
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: things are going to play into whether or not that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: god given ability is going to show up in the
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: big league. So there's a lot of factors that go
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: into it. And and you know, there's like nowadays, there's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys out there throw ninety six to
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: one hundred. That's not necessarily like, uh, you see it
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: every day in the minor leagues. You see it every
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: day in the big league. So that doesn't really jump
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: off the page like it ten fifteen years ago.
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: So he's he's gonna have to, uh, he's gonna have
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to have to you know, evolve with his command and
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: secondary pitches to end up, you know, fulfilling his talent.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a guessing game, And when we come back
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: from break, I'm gonna have these guys give their best
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: guess as to who winds up in the cardinal rotation.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Stay with us, Krats.
• 21:26
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• 21:28
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• 21:34
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• 21:47
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• 21:50
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  Speaker 7: not you undies. Me Undies a lot of different ones
• 22:00
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• 22:00
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• 22:25
  Speaker 2: You can't beat that. So Sunny Gray is gone headed
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: to Boston, the Cardinals and heim Bloom looking to retool
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: that starting rotation. I want to ask you guys, so
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I looked at it this way, like, to me, there's
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: three guys who I put in Penn in my starting rotation,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: And granted I could still get white out and cover
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: those up, but there's three guys I think are going
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: to be there. I'm gonna give you mine first. I
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: got Libby McGreevy and Lay he was in the bullpen
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: last year, but I think Lay he's a lot to
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: already talked about the his stuff. They want him to
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: stretch out and come to camp as a starter. Those
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: are my three that I have in Penn, Matt Holliday.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Who who do you have in the rotation? Who you
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: interested in seeing in there?
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't know you know enough about it. I
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: probably need to read up on who the other candidates are.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sure Lance knows better than I do. But look,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I think the guy that just got fits is gonna
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: get a good look. I mean, you don't trade Sonny
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Gray for a guy and then not give him every
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: opportunity to be in your rotation. So I would guess
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: that he's probably got a pretty good chance at getting
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: one of those spots. And then again, I think you
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: in the spring training and you start looking at everybody.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: You know, if you've got bullpen guys that have been
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: starters in the minor leagues, you start you start looking
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: for guys that can hold their stuff for four to
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: six innings. Like I just think that at this point,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: if you're not really trying necessarily to make the playoffs,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I think everybody is an option. And so I think
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: that outside of your your short one inning type of
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: believers that are a little bit older, I think all
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: of them will be under consideration. To be honest with you,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I think every guy they invited to big league camp
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: is going to have a chance at that fifth starter spot.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: So Lance will probably have, you know, a little bit
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: better idea than I do. Haven't been there, you know, recently,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: But I think it could be a lot of different guys.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I know Lance is a Polonte guy, He's certainly in
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: the mix. You got Quinn Matthews, you got Liam Doyle,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and again, you know, Lay could be a new piece.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: How do you see you going?
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: I think I think the three that you you named
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: are locks, and I think Polante is a lot if
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: healthy in spring training and throwing the ball. Uh, to
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: be honest with you, just being healthy, those four you
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: have to go with those four and then you're gonna
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: have to find a fifth and a sixth because he's
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: not going to be able to give you. I mean,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: you can't come on any of them to be a
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: truthful thirty start guy. So it's got to be a
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: you're looking at six for sure right out of the gate.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: So then you run fits and uh you can, and
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: Matthew's out there probably, and then you're probably gonna start
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: Doyle in the minor leagues and then have him filter
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: in throughout the year. So that's my my four plante
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: is a lock. And then you have the three that
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: you said, and then you the the five, six, seven
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: guys are going to kind of rotate throughout the year
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: unless they sign somebody else.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And you probably need to be at spring training what
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: eight nine deep with possible starters because people always get hurt.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: Early on, right we get when you're looking at well,
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: you're looking at what they have right now, They've got
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: they've got seven to eight uh, just in house, and
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: there's gonna be if they if you're looking at what
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: they still have left to do in the trade wise,
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: they're good to get another double, a triple, a starter
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: most likely and you know, everybody still wants to give
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: tink Hints a chance too. So maybe there's a guy that, hey, man,
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: if we can get one hundred innings out of him
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: this year and we can you know, have some starts
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: throughout the year in the big leagues and kind of
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: get his feet wet.
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: There's another guy. So you know, if you're going youth,
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: this is what you do.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Uh, but you have to have innings so you don't
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: kill your bullpen and plant I can give you those.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: And he's the only one that has kind of been
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: in the rotation in the last two years to build
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: in there.
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: And then you have what Liby did last year.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: Greevy's been in the triple A rotation, so he's been
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: able to get the innings that he needs. And then
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: the rest of them, you're going to have to say, hey,
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: let's hope to get one hundred to one hundred and twenty,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: maybe one hundred and forty innings out out of a
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: couple of them, and you're going to have to have
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: eight guys to be able to do that to ten
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: most likely, the him.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Bloom era is underway in Saint Louis. Gentlemen, thank you
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: for being part of our emergency Cardinal Territory. Hopefully we
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: shed some light on the move that sends Sonny Gray
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: to Boston. That's gonna do it for this edition. Hopefully
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the next edition of Cardinal Territory won't suck. Thanks for
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: joining us