Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Divorcing A Narcissist - Part 1

Transcript

Divorcing A Narcissist - Part 1 · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartel, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there in soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans, moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hey hey, welcome to this episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just before we dive in, I want you to know that I've split this episode across two weeks because when I recorded the whole thing was just a little bit too long.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So let's dive into the first part of tips, strategies, how to divorce a narcissist.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, welcome to another episode of Reflect, Reclaim, and Deliberate.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is about tips and strategies that you can use if you are divorcing a narcissist or a toxic ex-partner, a high conflict individual.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm usually quite hesitant to use the word narcissist.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It is a personality disorder that requires a professional specific diagnosis, but it is a real experience, I know, for many of you, and it's something that you have asked in DMs and messages me to address on the podcast.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So here we go.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um the first thing that you need to do if you are divorcing a high conflict, toxic ex-partner, narcissistic ex-partner is create a plan.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Have an emergency plan because you might have to get yourself safe quickly.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Have a plan before you tell your partner you're leaving.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if there is any fear for your physical safety or that of the kids if you've got children, this of course goes next level.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I will be recording a podcast episode with a guest in the coming couple of weeks on how to leave a dangerous relationship safely.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: But this episode, while still applicable, remember this is general advice only, and if you or your children are at any risk of harm, please make sure you build a specialized support network around you before you leave.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Flag it with the police, make sure you are safe.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: 1-800 respect, call the White Ribbon Organization, or visit the VicGov website where there is a page on family violence.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Build your support network, make sure you're safe.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll drop those links in the show notes.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Really, what I'm going to address in this episode is when you're stepping out of a relationship, a marriage with someone who has been exhibiting narcissistic behaviour patterns and continues to do that.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, let's flag it and let's call it what it is, it's abuse.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: We all know that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: But how you actually move through the settlement, the negotiation phase when you are dealing with someone who is so so difficult.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, if you have children with this person, you're going to have to maintain some sort of connection with them so that you can parent your children.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to use the word co-parent because it's very, very difficult to co-parent with a narcissist.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's more likely that you'll be parallel parenting.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: But regardless of the model or what we label it, you'll have to have an ongoing connection with this person if you if you have children together.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing you do is create a plan.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: As I said earlier, if you are concerned for your physical safety, that of your kids, choose a safe place to go, know ahead of time where you're going when you leave, pack a bag, have it ready in case you need to leave quickly.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: But as I said, more on this with a special guest who's coming on the podcast in the next couple of weeks.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Part of making a plan means ensuring you have access to the financial resources of the relationship.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't have full visibility on the money stuff, get it now.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have your own bank account, you don't have access to your own money, create that for yourself now.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Open a bank account, get a credit card if you can in your own name and start to stash some cash.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: At least have a little bit of money, or at least know that you have access to the financial resources, and once you leave, you're not going to get locked out of that by your ex-partner.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Part of making a plan, and something that I work through with my one-on-one clients, and this this applies even if your ex is not narcissistic.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: One tip and one thing I always suggest is make a list of the reasons why you're leaving this relationship, why you know that now is the right time, now you need to go.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: When you're dealing with a narcissist, this is an especially good idea because they will try and gaslight you and try and distort your reality and cause you to question yourself and your version of reality.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So having it written down and then keeping an ongoing journal, more on this a bit later, but keeping an ongoing journal, having it written down is really important so that you can reality check when they try and gaslight you.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you are the one leaving the home and you can do this, take everything that you want or need with you when you leave.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: As part of your plan, map out what you're taking, what's coming with you.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Don't leave anything behind that you want to keep.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Important documents, make sure that you take them with you.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Things like birth certificates, passports, maybe even your marriage certificate, insurance and banking documents, and copies of all relevant financial documents.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Take them with you when you leave.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Personal items are also important.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So take what you want with you.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Again, make a list, map it out, part of your plan.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Even take the pets if they're important to you and you have somewhere for them to go.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: If it is safe and it's possible for you to stay in the family home, especially if you're not working or working part-time or have limited access to financial resources, and also if you have children, it can be really useful for you to be able to stay in the house financially, but also for stability for the kids.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, this might require having lawyers involved or police intervention, but it can be really important, particularly in those circumstances where you're not working and the children are going to be living primarily with you.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's less disruptive for them and it will absolutely reduce the financial pressure.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can plan for that and it's safe, it reduces all those pressures on you.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: If that's going to happen, work out how the ongoing bills are going to be paid.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Try and make arrangements with your ex about who and how the bills will be paid.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: If possible, have discussions one-on-one.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you might need probably going to need some support around these discussions, might be through your lawyer, might be through a mediator.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: But have a discussion and find, try and find an agreement as to who will pay the bills, the household bills, children's expenses in this interim period before a while you're negotiating your property settlement.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're talking mortgage rates, utilities, phone bills, credit card bills, any other joint payments or debt, and of course, um, children's living expenses.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: It can be really useful here to contact your bank, and if you've got a mortgage, that is, and consider putting the mortgage on hold and make interest-only payments for a period of time.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of banks will allow that inner separation while you negotiate your separation divorce.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that can be part of your forward planning too.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you know you know where you're at financially.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, bills that aren't paid means that your credit ratings, both of you, will be affected.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And often a true narcissist will be open to negotiating around this as an act of self-preservation.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: They won't want to lose face, they won't want to have their credit score affected.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that can be uh a card in your deck, I suppose.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if there are accounts in your name for things that benefit your ex, communicate around those, preferably in writing, that you intend to close down the accounts.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking here like utilities accounts, if you have left the house, um, so that they can transfer those accounts into their sole name.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about protecting yourself.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're not paying for, you're not double-dipping, you're not paying for, say, a rental and all the utilities at a rental, and you're not having to be responsible, financially responsible for utilities bills somewhere that you're not living.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Similarly, if they're in joint names, you need to get your name off those accounts as soon as you can.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that can be part of your forward planning, not done afterwards.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: The next part of planning is actually being prepared for what's likely to come next.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you're the one who's announced that the relationship is over, if you're the one calling it quits and leaving the relationship or exiting the relationship, whether you're leaving the house or not is another matter.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're the one who's finished, ended the relationship, be prepared to be love bombed all over again.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Love bombing is that early phase of narcissistic behaviour where your partner throws everything at you.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: The cycle of narcissistic abuse is idealizing or love bombing, then devaluing, then discarding.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if your ex doesn't want to lose this relationship, if they don't want to lose face, they might resort back to that idealization phase, love bombing you, which can feel really destabilizing and confusing.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is why I suggest you write a list of all the reasons you are leaving this relationship so you can refer back to it if your ex then resorts to or reverts to a love bombing type love bombing type behaviours.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hold your line because the love bombing won't last.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the discard behavior will ramp up.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, be prepared for that.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Planning is being prepared, knowing what's coming, knowing that this is expected.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: It will turn, you know, you'll be told you're the one with the problem, no one believes you, you're crazy, crazy, or psychologically unbalanced, you're mentally ill, you're a bad parent.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's all going to come at you.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the smear campaign is a very common tap tactic that narcissists resort to.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a common, really common method of damage control that narcissists implement when separation is looming or has already happened.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: The mask comes off and they actually reveal their true selves in all of their glorious toxicity.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: They will accuse you of being all the things that they're guilty of.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, they'll call you crazy, they might accuse you of cheating or being a gold digger.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got kids, they'll they'll attack your parenting, um, and they will intentionally, intentionally spin stories, control the narrative, create a web of lies, exaggerations, tell half-truths, and throw out false accusations about you to others, to family, to friends, to anyone who will listen.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this is designed to destabilise and undermine you, to tarnish your reputation, to affect your sanity and definitely impact your sense of self-worth.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode is bringing up things for you, if it's landing loudly for you, if you want to take your next steps in terms of working one-on-one with me, there's a link in the show notes where you can jump into my calendar and book a free introductory call where we can chat through coaching options and the best support for you.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: The whole reason this business exists is to support people going through a challenging divorce so that they don't have to do it alone.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to support you if you want me on your team.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's jump on a call together and chat through how that can look.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Be prepared for it, know it's coming for you, and ensure that you ramp up your self-care because self-care and support are everything here.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Engage with a therapist, flag things with your GP, get a mental health care plan, get a therapist and a coach.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I'm gonna say get a coach, build a solid, close group of family and friends around you.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit more on that later, but self-care in this situation is absolutely essential.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: It is non-negotiable.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: You need to embrace yourself, have compassion for yourself, and paradoxically, I'm gonna say even having a little bit of compassion for your ex if you can.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't mean that you forgive or condone their behavior, but a little bit of compassion towards them can help you.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: But mostly turn that compassion towards yourself.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Forgive yourself if you need to.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't shame, spiral yourself, which I know is easy to say.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't shame, spiral yourself about how long you stayed, why you didn't spot it earlier, or leave earlier.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not helpful here.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Fill your cup in whatever ways you need to.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: You are here to hunker down and get through this to survive, to learn, to grow, and then transform your life and flourish on the other side, not sit in victim mode forever.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So carve out time, even if it's half an hour a day.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Create the time to do things that you enjoy that relax and de-stress you and help you remain calm, centered, regulated.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever self-care looks like for you, you need to ramp it up.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you need to do your inner work.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I'm gonna say that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Journal, exercise, make healthy choices, have healthy options around food and alcohol, and work on your inner voice, work on your inner critic and building your confidence and your resilience.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Also, part of self-care, and I guess about planning is being future focused.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Really stay focused on the life you most want to be living, who and what you're calling into that future life, how you want your life to look and feel, and manifest the absolute shit out of it by first defining it and then getting busy building it with small daily habits and tasks that support you today to live a little bit more like that future version of life.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So do go out into the future, two, five, ten years' time.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do you want life to look in two or five years' time and start living in alignment with that life?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I believe manifesting is defining it and starting to step towards it action.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: But in this time, in this transitional time, really take care of you, build your resilience, build your capacity, build your wellness, take care of your wellness, mental, emotional, physical, because it may well be a really long ride.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: My next tip is to build your team around you.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Build them with honesty and with vulnerability.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Build a village around you and your kids.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Really lean on your loved ones, your friends, and your family.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I encourage you to speak openly about what's going on and what's been going on if you've kept it quiet.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Don't hide it or try to protect anyone, least of all your ex.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: There is so much shame and blame and guilt that we load on ourselves as we exit a dysfunctional, toxic, abusive relationship.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Smart, savvy, successful people fall victims to narcissists.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, fill up your cup with self-compassion, self-love, and self-care and build a tight team around you so that you can speak openly about what's going on.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: You need people who will provide you with reassurance and have your back.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Speak openly about what's going on with caution, of course.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Choose who you speak to wisely, but don't hide the truth.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you're choosing professionals to bring onto that team to build your village with, choose practitioners who genuinely understand and have experience dealing with high conflict individuals, dealing with narcissists as part of divorce.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Specific, targeted experience, and be open to asking and accepting the help and support of others.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to do this alone.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, fierce independence is a trauma trauma response, and your narcissistic ex-partner has tried very, very hard to make you feel isolated and alone.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: So build a village around yourself, professionals as well as friends, family.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have others in your circle who can help you recognize if probably when you fall back into old patterns or the old cycle of engaging with your ex, and they can help point it out and they can support you to create new ways of engaging.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: It is easy to fall back into the old patterns, to dance the old dance.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So having people around you who can call you out on that and support you to create healthier patterns or disengage is really, really important.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're building this village, be mindful of what's known when we talk about narcissistic abuse or narcissism.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Be mindful of flying monkeys.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: As a narcissist loses control over you or over the situation, as starts to happen when you assert yourself, when you shift your pattern of engagement, they will do anything to maintain that sense of control, and they will utilize other people to continue the attack on you.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So these satellite people are used by the narcissist or employed, I suppose, by the narcissist, and they're often referred to as flying monkeys, which comes from the Wizard of Oz, when the Wicked Witch of the West had her flying monkeys go out into the world and do her bidding.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a similar concept.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, flying monkeys are often those who want to smooth things over between you and your ex.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: They might be people pleasers or they might just be really wanting to help, and they don't understand that this has been an abusive, toxic, dysfunctional situation probably for a really long time.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: These people are connected with the narcissist, they don't want to upset or disappoint them.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, they think that they're being helpful, and it is highly likely that they've been manipulated themselves or coerced into adopting this role, this helper role.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: They've had, you know, the narcissist throw the beautiful charming treatment at them and they can't see, they can't see the toxicity or the abuse.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Often, so often these flying monkeys will fulfil their role without actually realizing it, or they will genuinely believe that the narcissist is in the right because they're taken in by them and and by their perspective, and so that makes them hard for you to spot.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So build your team around you carefully, cautiously.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, create a village of safe connections around you so you don't mistakenly get hooked in by one of your ex's flying monkeys.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Next tip is to document and record absolutely everything.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Write down everything, document what's going on, put dates and times because your ex will continue or start to gaslight and twist gaslight you and twist things.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So write down anything that you think could be twisted or used against you later.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Keep notes, keep dates, keep details.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can record yourself as a voice note.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if it does end up in court, you can actually say, Can I look at my notes from that particular day or about that particular event?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It has power in court, and it's important so you can take it to your legal team and say, This is what's going on.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so communication is important, especially written communication, as it can be submitted in court.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So be mindful of your own communications and responses, but document and record all of the incoming stuff.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: There is really no such thing as having too much evidence here.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So save records of text messages, emails, any other documents or communication.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, voice record yourself, take notes, and try and keep it all in the one place.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: If there's something that happens between the two of you and it's a verbal exchange, write it down or voice record it as soon as you can afterwards and write it in or voice record it in as objective a way as you can.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Try and stay really clear and calm and unemotional when you're recording what happened, record the facts calmly as an as calmly and objectively as you possibly can.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: A journal is for dumping all the emotional stuff.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So these other recordings may be used in court or as evidence with your legal team, so it is best to keep it as objective and as calm and as unemotional as you can.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Use the journal for the emotional download.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can also, when you're thinking about documentation, ask others or seek written testimonials from others if they've observed or experienced these chain these exchanges between you and your ex.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something to probably discuss with your lawyer.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been here for a while, listening to the podcast, a part of the Reflect community, you know that I don't suggest lawyering up lightly.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you are dealing with somebody who is narcissistic, high conflict, you're going to have to lawyer up.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So choosing your lawyer wisely, choosing someone experienced, as I said earlier, as part of your village, as part of your team, is really, really important.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned at the top of the episode, this is part one of a two-part episode that I recorded as a whole and split out into two because it was just a little bit too long.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you've enjoyed it, well, do enjoy this.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know that we enjoy listening to this stuff actually.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you found it useful and helpful and supportive, watch out for the second part.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um please share it with someone who you know might feel supported by it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's dealing with that high conflict situation in their separation, divorce, or co-parenting, parallel parenting afterwards.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've received what you need from this episode.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.