Latest / Heavyweight / 2026 Update: Elyse

Transcript

2026 Update: Elyse · Heavyweight

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, Jonathan, Hi, come on in. You should make
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: yourself at home in the studio because it is like
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: a sec you've been spending so much time in here.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually sometimes just sleep in here. It's just
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: easier than having to go home.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you should be telling me that
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: this might be a conversation out with hr Yeah, what
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: are we listening to today?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Speaking of the studio, Today we're going to revisit an
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: episode that started with us sitting around in the studio.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: It's called a Lease.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course I love this episode.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: It's a really good one that came to us, as
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: you'll hear, in an unconventional way.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we were trying something new. We were trying to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: do a call in show, but in our case that
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: basically failed, but it succeeded because we wouldn't have had
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: this story without it.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: And we have a check in with Alease at the
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: end about what's happened since. And truly some of the
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: wildest updates I would say of any of these update conversations.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, do you have a tendency to to
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to skew towards clickbait, But in this case it's true
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: it's very eventful.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: What else is there to say to quote?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: To quote?
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Jay Z?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: What more can I say?
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Hello?
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I thought you left the studio. Yeah, let's lean.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Back, let the story unfold and let.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: This story take us away. Oh but before any of that,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Hey, how is it that
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a seal keeps balls on their nose?
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Go?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Now, no, no, I have something serious.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: If I happen to groceres in the house and I've
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: got to paint the doors.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: So you're painting the door to your house? Yes, it
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: pays the door red.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: It's gonna be very nice.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: But you know what a red door symbolizes, right, No,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: le rouge, there is a bordello. You're kidding, right, That's
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: how sailors would know. They would have them down by
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: the viewport and they would be able to know where
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: they could kidding make whoopee for for money?
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: Sorry, who's that?
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: That's my neighbor.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Could you ask him about the red door?
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: Zach?
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I need this.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Today's episode, ilise.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: So now what happens They're just gonna call We'll see.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, get ready. For a while back, my producers
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and I decided to try a phone in episode. Larry King,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Rush Limbaugh and other Goldstein esque personalities had found success
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: with them. So why, I wondered, from the depths of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: my ignorance, couldn't die and so full of hubris and hope,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: we open the phone lines and invite the whole world
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: to call in with a small moment from their past,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: something to revisit and resolve, all during the course of
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a five minute phone call. This is why I got
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: into this business, the know the feeling of live radio.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: As I'm to learn the thing about a phone in
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: show is that you need people to phone in and
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: nobody is.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Cause everyone's day.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: But just as I'm starting to wonder if Gimblet Media
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: has forgotten to pay its telephone bill again, Oh here
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: we go.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: We're answering.
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Hello, this is Jonathan speaking.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: Hi Jonathan, how's it going?
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: It's going okay? Is this uh? What's your name?
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: Elise?
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: This is You're very surprised I got through. This is
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: so exciting.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I guess you really lucked out. Elise is a longtime listener,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: first time caller from Washington, d C. And As it
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: turns out, her call proves not only the first of
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the day, but also the last. And this is not
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: just because we don't receive any other calls. It's because
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I completely drawn in by the story at least tells
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: me about herself and her dad. What's his name, Billy? Billy?
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I guess I basically I am estranged from
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: my father.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: When Aalise was a kid, Billy was the fun parent,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the one who always had hours to play with her,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the guy who, in spite of being something of a
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: macho man, gave himself over to playing beauty salon, even
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: allowing Elise to paint his toenails. Before the estrangement, Billy
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and Elise were really close, which is why not having
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: any relationship now hurts the way it does.
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: She was my dad, Like our idea of a family
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: vacation was to like show up in a country with
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: no plan and like rent a car and just like
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: drive around. And it was amazing, Like that's what that's what.
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: Life with dad would like. It was like every day
• 6:02
  Speaker 7: was an adventure.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Even the way Billy met Alisa's mom was like something
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: out of a movie. The first act of a film
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: noir Billy was an Englishman driving through Chattanooga on a
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: tourist visa when he got into a terrible car accident,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: and the physical therapist assigned to him was Elisa's mom.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Billy was still in a wheelchair when he talked her
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: into sneaking him out of the hospital for their first date.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Pretty soon after they got married and had Elise, Billy
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: never went back to England. Instead, he stayed with his
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: family in Chattanooga and became a successful used car salesman.
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: I have a lot of things in my upbringing in
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: life with him to be very grateful for. In addition
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: to all the craziness.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: In reference to her dad, Elise brings up craziness a lot,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: like the crazy way Billy ruined her credit by opening
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a business in her name, or the crazy time he
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: drove home a brand new car only to have cops
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: come looking for it with their guns drawn, or the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: crazy way he destroyed his twenty four year marriage with
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: a series of affairs. There's one Christmas where he bailed
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: on the family only to spend the holiday with another woman.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And for all of these things, no matter how jarring
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: or painful, Elise is found it in herself to forgive
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: her father, but there's one thing she hasn't been able
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: to forgive.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: About five years ago, he moved out of the country
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: without telling us.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Us is Elise and her mom. Elise's parents had been
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: married her whole life, but had recently separated around the
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: time of his disappearance. Her last good memory of her
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: dad is watching him wave from the crowd as she
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: crossed the stage at our college graduation. Days later, he disappeared,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: and disappeared is the word for it. Elise says that
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: when she went over to his house, she found food
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: rotting in the refrigerator and all the furniture still there.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: For a week, Aleist had no idea what had happened
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: to her father, and then she received an email. It
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: simply said he'd be gone for a little while and
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: that email was the best way to stay in touch.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: There was no further explanation. The next time she heard
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: from him was on her birthday six months later, a
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Christmas note. And that's more or less been the pattern
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: for the last five years.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: On holidays and my birthday and stuff like that. His
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: emails are very short, like three sentences or less, sort
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: of happy whatever holiday it is I hope you're well,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: love Dad.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: At first, at least tried responding. She'd express some of
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: her pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: substantial dialogue, but Billy would refuse to engage. So after
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: an email pressing her father for answers, a few months
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: would pass with no response, and then an email would
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: land and Elisa's inbox wishing her a happy whatever holiday
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: it is and hoping she's well. Love Dad, as though
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: nothing was ever expressed and nothing was ever asked of him. Eventually,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Alice stopped responding to his emails entirely.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: We don't have a mailing address for him. I don't
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: know if his phone number. Like the only connection I
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: have to him is a Comcast email address.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Do you do you know where he's living.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: He's in the Philippines, and that's all I know. My
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: mom has a pinpoint into like a region. But like
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: there was ever, like he never told me where he
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: was going or why he never he never explained why
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: he left.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: And this is what Elise wants, an explanation for his departure,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: an emotional, honest conversation where she can ask him why
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: and what happened, Because in the five years since she
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: last saw him, a lot has happened.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: He started a new family, he also has like a
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: wife and a kid. Uh huh, And then he actually
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: named his new daughter my name Elise.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: Just find it so insulting. It's just such a transparent replacement,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: like I moved to a country and like made a
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: new youth.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: So when people search for Elise on Facebook, the first
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: result that comes up is new Elise and the page
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Billy made for her, which means old Elise is forced
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: to constantly explain that this is her dad's new daughter
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: from his new family, who also just so happens to.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Have her name, Like, he just wants me to like
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: love him and be happy with him again. But the
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: elephant in the room is that he's living mysteriously somewhere
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: for half a decade and we've never discussed it.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: At least feels like she and Billy are living in
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: two different realities. She in the one where her father
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: abandoned her, and he in the one where he did
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong. She wants her dad to validate what she's
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: seen and felt to understand. Otherwise, how can they move forward?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Are you wanting to have a relationship with him.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: Pardon me, is because he's also he's like diabetic, and
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: like he's just kind of old and sick and might
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: die and I might never know. He's sixty five and
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: possibly working a very physically taxing job. She was working
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: on containerships when we first moved over, And I've been
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: passively choosing the root of not having a relationship. But
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: the fear and the guilt gets worse with time, and.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: What would what would pursuing a relationship look like?
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: That's what I'm That's what I'm trying to figure out.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, I mean, he's my dad and I
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: feel like he's trying to maintain a relationship with me,
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: and I just don't know how to work past it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I know I can sometimes come across as something of
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a meddler, but I only decide to get involved in
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the business of upturning people's entire lives after hours, sometimes
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: even days, of careful consideration. But then, I've never hosted
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a call in show before, and so adrenalized by the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: single flashing light on my switchboard and the imperial perch
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: of my slightly elevated swivel chair, I dive in would
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: you want me to call him up? And I say this,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: by the way, like with the idea that this could
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: be a terrible, terrible idea, I'm not championing this idea.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: This could be a stupid idea.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: It's better than any of the ideas that I've had
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: for the past five years. So yeah, I think I
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: think it would be helpful.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: My idea is to serve as Elise's emotional advance scout,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to call up her dad and see if he might
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: be ready after all this time, to talk to Elise
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and offer some answers. Given what Elise has told me
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: about her dad, I can't say I'm optimistic about that.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: But then again, I can't say I'm optimistic about anything.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: Good luck for the rest of your calls.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: No one's gonna call anyway. So no, this was a
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: good call in show. And so it comes to pass
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that I email Billy. As I await his response, I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: imagine various scenarios. Maybe Billy will treat me like a
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: student loan officer. Sorry, sir, you've got the wrong Billy,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: he might say. Or perhaps he'll try to convince me
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I have the story all wrong, that Elise and her
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: mom are the real Villains. After a week and a half,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I finally hear back from Billy, and his actual response
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: is more surprising than any I might have imagined. It's
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: just a simple note apologizing for the delay. Billy explains
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: it's the rainy season and the Philippines and it's been
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: messing with his Internet. But he says he really wants
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: to talk to me. To be honest with you, He writes,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: you are the only hope I have of communicating with Elise. Hello,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: oh hi, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking.
• 14:52
  Speaker 8: Hey Jonathan.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: It's a terrible evening here again, thunder and lightning. As
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: I told you, rainy seasons.
• 14:59
  Speaker 8: So but anyway, so Elise contacted you.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Although Elise's last mine memory of her dad was at
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: her graduation ceremony, Billy has a different final memory, and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: as he describes it, it was one of the most
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: painful moments of his life. He was in the midst
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: of the separation from Elisa's mom.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: I was walking out of the garage carrying a box
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: and you can see straight into the house from the driveway.
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: And Elise was in the dining room.
• 15:36
  Speaker 8: Well.
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: When she saw me, she.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Darted back into the living room, and kind of hid
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: herself so I couldn't see her. But I know for
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: a fact that she saw me because we made eye contact.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I get that this had to have been painful for Billy,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: but as Elisa's interlocutor, I tell him this isn't about
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: his pain. It's about his daughter's pain in her anger,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and if they're to speak, he should be prepared for that.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine that something Billy wants to hear, and
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I'm worried how he'll react.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: As far as her feeling anger on her mother's behalf,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: that I can assure you is completely understandable.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Once again, Billy has managed to surprise me.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: I basically putn't it bluntly shit all over that woman
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: on many occasions. He was one particular Sunday morning that
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: she was up cooking breakfast and the phone rings and
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: there's a woman on the phone. And the woman says, Hey,
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: this is Angela. Can I speak to Billy? And my
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: wife said, well.
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: Who are you?
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And she just openly older she said, well, I'm his girlfriend.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine a wife getting a owe concos of
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: s like that on a Sunday morning in the middle
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: of breakfast, saying I'm your husband's girlfriend.
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: If at least broke is that with you, I can
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: assure you that every single word that she says is accurate,
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: and if it's not a really ugly picture, she's left
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: something like because trust me.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: It's a really ugly picture.
• 17:41
  Speaker 8: But there's absolutely nothing that I won't be completely honest
• 17:47
  Speaker 8: and open about. The honest that I have absolutely no
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: problem discussing anything with you.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: After hearing everything ALIST had to say about Billy's unwillingness
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: to own up his refusal to engage, I was expecting
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the worst, but Billy seems genuinely remorseful, apologetic, and even
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: eager to hear his daughter out. He tells me he
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: kept his distance out of fear that at least didn't
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: want to hear from him at all, but he thinks
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: about her all the time.
• 18:21
  Speaker 8: I don't know if it's because I'm getting over either.
• 18:25
  Speaker 8: I don't know if it's this.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like I've lost my daughter. I don't know
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: what it is, but I.
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: Was really.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Excited when I found out that she had reached help
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: to you to make contact with me, because to me,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: that means she wants to get our relationship back, and
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: that is desperately.
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: What I want?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Elise?
• 19:23
  Speaker 9: Hi?
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: How are you nice to meet you?
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I've invited Elise to my office in Brooklyn so that
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: we can call her father together. It will be the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: first time in five years that Alise hears Billy's voice.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: How are you feeling very nervous? You are? Do you
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: want some coffee? Nothing calms the Kishkas better than a
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: nice cup of coffee. Alise declines, and we settle in
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: for some small talk while I set up the call.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: As we chat, I'm struck by Elise's cultural sensitivity.
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: Wasn't it Canada Day? Recently? It was Canada Day?
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you? And I fumble around, incapable of an appropriately
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: reciprocal well wish. Hmmm. We're three days after Canada Day,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: so that makes it the third, maybe the fourth of July. Naw,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I got nothing. I tell the Lease about my conversation
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: with Billy. How remorseful and open to talking he seemed.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: She's still worried, but says she wasn't even expecting things
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to progress this far.
• 20:27
  Speaker 10: I'm very surprised he spoke to you. I'm very surprised
• 20:30
  Speaker 10: he was candid with you.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: So that's a positive, right, and that's a change. Yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: so do you wanna shall we try this?
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Make the call? Yeah, so it's Monday, six in the evening,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: so it is six a m. In the Philippines. It's
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: really yeah, Well let's try him.
• 20:56
  Speaker 9: Okay, what.
• 21:06
  Speaker 11: Right?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Hello is this Bill?
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Hi Bill, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking.
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: Hi buddy. What's going on?
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm here with Elise.
• 21:20
  Speaker 9: He did.
• 21:23
  Speaker 8: Hi. Hi, honey. How are you?
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: I'm I'm good. How are you? Everything is good this end,
• 21:32
  Speaker 7: that's good.
• 21:34
  Speaker 8: I'm glad that you were approached Johnson. Any communication that
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: we can get I think is really good.
• 21:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm sorry it took such a long time.
• 21:52
  Speaker 8: I just stay what I understand you what gools to work?
• 21:58
  Speaker 8: German problems And yes things went wrong towards the end,
• 22:02
  Speaker 8: and yes they're one fault.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: And if you.
• 22:06
  Speaker 8: Think back, we shared a lot of great.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: But Elise isn't here to talk about the great times.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: She's here to talk about the bad times. In fact,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: she's written up some notes to make sure she doesn't
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: leave any of her feelings or questions unsaid. The notes
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: are in her hand, but she isn't looking at them. Instead,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: she speaks from the heart.
• 22:31
  Speaker 7: Okay, I have thought about emailing you back.
• 22:41
  Speaker 10: I've just been so angry that I didn't think it
• 22:46
  Speaker 10: would be productive, And like.
• 22:52
  Speaker 7: I have just wanted to, like yell at you.
• 22:57
  Speaker 10: Or cry or cuss you out for leaving and not
• 23:01
  Speaker 10: explaining anything. But I don't feel that like intense anger anymore.
• 23:09
  Speaker 10: I'm sad that we don't have a relationship like we
• 23:12
  Speaker 10: used to, but I feel like every time I let
• 23:18
  Speaker 10: you back in and I forgive you for whatever has
• 23:20
  Speaker 10: happened before, you end up just breaking my heart again.
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: And I.
• 23:26
  Speaker 10: Do find it very insulting that you gave another child
• 23:30
  Speaker 10: my name, my verse and last name.
• 23:35
  Speaker 7: And I don't know.
• 23:36
  Speaker 10: I don't know what relationship we're going to have in
• 23:39
  Speaker 10: the future. I just I had to sort of get
• 23:43
  Speaker 10: some of this out for any of that to be possible.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Billy is silent for a while. When he finally does respond,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: he skips right over the big question about his leaving
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: with that explanation and focuses on the second question instead,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the question of Elisa's name.
• 24:09
  Speaker 8: Well, I can tell you that it was her mother
• 24:18
  Speaker 8: who loves the name a leash.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: I should have contested and said, no, you know, leasure,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: we think this swam but I didn't, at least to
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: be honest with you, and I should have done.
• 24:32
  Speaker 8: The Filipino culture and the Filipino thinking is different. I'll
• 24:39
  Speaker 8: give you another example. One of your favorite dogs is Charlie. Okay,
• 24:48
  Speaker 8: I've never owned a German Shepherd over here, but we
• 24:53
  Speaker 8: had a dog. But because of the stories that I've told,
• 24:57
  Speaker 8: what did they call the dog?
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: Charlie?
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: By the look on her face, at least doesn't seem
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: reassured by the fact that, like her Charlie, the beloved
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: German shepherd from her chinlihood, had also been replaced. Although
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I haven't been to the Philippines, it feels as though
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Billy is throwing an entire country under the bus to
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: save his own hide. In the silence, I try to
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: bring things back to what I think is Billy's strongest suit,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: his seemingly renewed capacity for repentance. I want the least
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: to hear what I heard in Billy during our first conversation,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: so I try to steer things in that direction.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Bill.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: You know you you you mentioned feeling regret. What would
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: you do differently if you had a chance to do
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: things over.
• 25:53
  Speaker 8: I don't think that the final outcome would change much
• 25:58
  Speaker 8: to be honest with you, But I should have called
• 26:04
  Speaker 8: for a family meeting, and I should have gone over
• 26:08
  Speaker 8: it in detail, with times and dates and plans.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: A family meeting about leaving your family was not the
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: do over I was expecting. After having heard the level
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: of Old Testament shame head express in our first phone call,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised that Billy's now talking in the language of
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: meetings and launch dates. Alice stares down at the floor.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: She looks at me. Billy's not giving her what she needs,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: so she puts it to him as directly as she.
• 26:43
  Speaker 10: Can, Like, you have to understand that you just disappeared
• 26:46
  Speaker 10: and I had no context. Like I want to know
• 26:50
  Speaker 10: what you were thinking when you left, and like why
• 26:53
  Speaker 10: you left, so like what happened?
• 26:59
  Speaker 8: Well, there are lots of things that I would like
• 27:04
  Speaker 8: to explain to you. Is dogging.
• 27:15
  Speaker 10: Is that I'm here, I'm listening. If there's anything you
• 27:19
  Speaker 10: want to say.
• 27:24
  Speaker 8: Well, there were several several things that happened at last.
• 27:33
  Speaker 8: It's a long story that I would like to explain
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: to you step by step. Got kind of a really
• 27:44
  Speaker 8: busy schedule today.
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: Is there any like brief overview?
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: Well, yeah, honey, I can answer your questions. I have
• 27:59
  Speaker 8: an explanation, you know, for what happened, and I would
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: be more than happy to explain it to you in detail.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: But then nothing. The conversation goes round and round. Billy
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: reassures a Lease that he has explanations, explanations of every
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: length and level of detail. It's just that he never
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: actually shares.
• 28:26
  Speaker 8: Any happy to do that. Every question that you may.
• 28:31
  Speaker 7: Have, is there anything you've wanted to say to me?
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: There won't be a question that you will ask me
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: that I won't answer.
• 28:42
  Speaker 10: Like right now, you're just telling me that you're going
• 28:44
  Speaker 10: to tell me, like do you have anything to have?
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Billy likes to talk about talking about hard things, but
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: not actually talking about them. Still, a Lease keeps pushing.
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: I understand that it's very painful for you, but I.
• 29:03
  Speaker 10: There have been so many times when we've just glossed
• 29:05
  Speaker 10: over insane things that have happened, penned crazy things.
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: I understand that there's got to be explanations for things,
• 29:18
  Speaker 8: support said and options, support clothing, and things that got done.
• 29:24
  Speaker 8: And then when all of that is done, you a
• 29:28
  Speaker 8: Lass asked her last question, and I have told her
• 29:33
  Speaker 8: every single.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Thing that I want to call her.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Billy's not making any headway talking about the past, so
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: he turns the conversation to the future.
• 29:45
  Speaker 8: I'm really hoping that the poor idea she leave this
• 29:49
  Speaker 8: place and I get to see you.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: That wish for a more, cos.
• 29:55
  Speaker 8: I don't want to die without seeing you.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: I really don't.
• 30:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't. I don't want that either.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: And with that, Alise's hands fall into her lap. As
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: an interlocutor, there isn't much for me to do. At least,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: here's what Billy is saying and not saying, and she
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't need any help to understand. So I do the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: only thing I can. I sit beside her, commiserating with
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: raised eyebrows and puzzled looks, saying without words, I see
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: the same things you do, and it's not you. For
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the rest of the call, at least stays quiet and
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: allows Billy to talk, though it feels as though he's
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: mostly talking to himself.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Wouldn't be ill place.
• 30:51
  Speaker 8: Don't look backwards anymore, honey, don't go backwards.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: There's too much pain back there.
• 30:59
  Speaker 8: Don't go back there. Yes, just outwards form because that
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: happened back then.
• 31:05
  Speaker 11: But let's go.
• 31:07
  Speaker 8: It's just so painful. It hurts. It hurts a lot.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: As Billy tries to push away the past while cowering
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: from the future, the present takes hold the when Billy
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: can't deny.
• 31:23
  Speaker 8: I am totally.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Okay. Just wait one minutely than on the front, I
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: know I'm totally totally responsible for.
• 31:38
  Speaker 8: And so, but if there are any other.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Explanations that I should give to you, least you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: I'll be more than happy to do that.
• 32:00
  Speaker 8: So I will be more than happy to spend my
• 32:03
  Speaker 8: evening starting to explain that to you.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Billy promises that that evening he'll send a lease an email,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: an email that will explain everything. But it never arrives,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: not that night, or the next, or any night in
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the months that follow.
• 32:23
  Speaker 8: I will email you later today, okay.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Luc Yeah, okay, well, Luce, thank you. I really appreciate it.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, Bill, Well, have a good rest of the day.
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks for thanks for talking Dad. I appreciate it.
• 32:49
  Speaker 8: Okay, I have a great day, Honey.
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: You too, thank you.
• 32:56
  Speaker 9: Bye, Okay, how you doing.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Once we're off the phone, Alise and I go over
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: what just happened. She tells me she felt steamrolled, and
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I tell her that I felt it too.
• 33:20
  Speaker 10: I wasn't really sure what I wanted to get out
• 33:24
  Speaker 10: of it. I don't think that everyone gets sort of
• 33:31
  Speaker 10: equally agreeable, compromised ending. But for a long time I
• 33:37
  Speaker 10: felt like the burden of us not having a relationship
• 33:39
  Speaker 10: was on me because he would email and I would
• 33:41
  Speaker 10: never respond, and that was kind of the end of it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 10: And I feel like, now that I have tried to
• 33:48
  Speaker 10: contact him, like the burden of us not having whatever
• 33:52
  Speaker 10: relationship I think we should have is not as much
• 33:54
  Speaker 10: on me. I feel a lot less guilt now. Will
• 34:02
  Speaker 10: never be as close as it sounds like he wanted
• 34:04
  Speaker 10: us to be. I don't think that's likely, and like
• 34:07
  Speaker 10: maybe it's okay that I don't push for that. I
• 34:11
  Speaker 10: think he creates his own universe like I lived. I
• 34:15
  Speaker 10: was a permanent resident of like Billy World for a
• 34:18
  Speaker 10: number of years, and I was glad to get off
• 34:20
  Speaker 10: the ride. Like you don't get to live in the university.
• 34:23
  Speaker 10: You create and expect it not to affect other.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: People, and other people have been affected. In recent months,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Elise has been corresponding with a British man named Martin,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and Martin was able to help Alise answer the question
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: of why her father left in a way that Billy
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: himself couldn't. Martin believes he's Billy's son, born before Billy
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: left England for Chattanooga. So, unlike Elise, Martin grew up
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: without a father, because, like Alise, one day, without warning,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: his father left, moved to another country and started another family.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: And from what Martin is saying, he's not the only one.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: There's another man living in England, he tells her, who
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: also believes that Billy is his father. The two of
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: them have been trying to reach Billy for years. In fact,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: it turns out that Martin and Elise have brushed against
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: each other before, a long time ago, when Elise was
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: growing up. She remembers the home phone ringing, usually around
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: the holidays, and a young man with her father's accent
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: on the line asking to speak to Billy. Back then,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Billy said Martin was a distant cousin, And all these
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: years later, Martin still feels like he's being pushed away.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: He just wants Billy to acknowledge him. In learning about
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Martin and her other possible half brother, how her story
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: has repeated itself over and over, Alise has found the
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: answer she needed. The answer Billy himself was never able
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: to give her. It isn't about her or about Martin
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: or anyone else. The reason Billy did what Billy did
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: is because that's what Billy does. Martin and the other
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: possible half brother are planning to take a DNA test,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: and they'd like a lease to take one too. If
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: their DNA matches hers, Martin says it's all the proof
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: they'll need. Billy will have to accept them as his own.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: When I talked to her on the phone about it
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: later on, Eli says she isn't sure a DNA test
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: will give Martin the thing he's looking for, but she
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: does want to help.
• 36:55
  Speaker 12: Knowing how much I wanted to closure, it would definitely
• 36:57
  Speaker 12: be good to be able to provide him some.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: So the next time she and Martin speak, she'll offer
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: him this.
• 37:05
  Speaker 12: Whatever relationship you have in your head that you want
• 37:08
  Speaker 12: with him is probably not possible, and I can confirm
• 37:14
  Speaker 12: that you're genetically related, but that doesn't guarantee that he
• 37:18
  Speaker 12: will be a presence in your life in a way
• 37:20
  Speaker 12: that you want, because he's not able to do that
• 37:25
  Speaker 12: for me.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: In other words, Alise will tell Martin, I see the
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: same things you do and it's not you. A few
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: months after our call with her father, Alise and I
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: check back in. She tells me she still hasn't heard
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: from Billy, but she suspects that around the holidays, like always,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: she'll get that three sentence email, and when she does,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: this time she'll write him back happy whatever holiday it is,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: she'll write, hope you're well, Love Elise.
• 38:40
  Speaker 12: Now that the.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Third atures returning to its goodwill.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Home, Now that the last month's RNT is skiming with
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the dam problem, take this moment to dissolve.
• 39:00
  Speaker 9: If we meant him, if we tried to.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Remember, felt around.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: For far too months.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: To Elise, Hi, how are you.
• 39:17
  Speaker 7: Good?
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Do you have another room? It's it sounds very roomy,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: which which is a good quality for a room normally.
• 39:25
  Speaker 8: But not for recording.
• 39:26
  Speaker 11: Let me, I'm going to go I think sitting on
• 39:29
  Speaker 11: the floor in our closet.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: That's the spirit.
• 39:31
  Speaker 7: It's going to take me a second to me, so
• 39:33
  Speaker 7: just totally.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Take take your time. This is a very big thing
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: that I'm asking of you.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: She hold on, don't put her in.
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: The grate because that's where I'm gonna be.
• 39:43
  Speaker 11: Yeah, okay, can you hear me now?
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for your indulgence. Who were you
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: explaining to that you were headed for the closet?
• 39:59
  Speaker 7: He actually was.
• 40:00
  Speaker 11: Thinking about it because it's been like eight years since
• 40:02
  Speaker 11: we first chatted.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:03
  Speaker 11: When we first chatted, I had just started dating him
• 40:06
  Speaker 11: and he's not my husband.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Oh cool and sorry. One last unrelated question the crating
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: was that a dog you were talking about? Yes, thank god?
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 40:20
  Speaker 11: I'm good. I have a number of updates about dad. Oh,
• 40:25
  Speaker 11: things have transpired. So there was eventually a younger sibling
• 40:31
  Speaker 11: in the Philippines from a different woman.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Wait sorry, wait, we're talking about little elies.
• 40:37
  Speaker 11: No, there was another one after that.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, and she was the last.
• 40:43
  Speaker 11: Woman he took up with romantically, was younger than me.
• 40:48
  Speaker 11: Her name is Faith.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: How did you learn about this development? Have you and
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: your father been in touch very little, like birthdays and
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Christmas kind of thing.
• 40:58
  Speaker 11: Yeah, maybe even less frequent than he had been doing beforehand.
• 41:01
  Speaker 11: And then at some point between then and twenty twenty four,
• 41:06
  Speaker 11: I can't remember exactly when his lack of legal immigration
• 41:11
  Speaker 11: status and the Philippines did eventually catch up to him
• 41:15
  Speaker 11: and they put him in prison, like in detention essentially
• 41:19
  Speaker 11: for a couple of years.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: For he was in prison for a couple of years. Yes,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: in the Philippines, Yes, wow, I.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: Does it?
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Does it even make sense? I mean, I don't know
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: anything about Filipino law that being there legally would have
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: been enough to put a person in prison for two years.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Do you think maybe there's more to the story.
• 41:46
  Speaker 11: I think it's very possible, because I feel like I
• 41:49
  Speaker 11: remember Faith saying to mom that he was getting charged
• 41:54
  Speaker 11: with like additional other things that she was so sure
• 41:57
  Speaker 11: he didn't do, and me and my mom were like,
• 42:00
  Speaker 11: it's much more likely that he did them.
• 42:03
  Speaker 9: Wow.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: So how old a man was he at the time
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: that they were that he was sent to prison.
• 42:09
  Speaker 11: Probably in his seventies at that point, or like just
• 42:13
  Speaker 11: close to. Then eventually they did deport him to Guam.
• 42:21
  Speaker 11: He eventually ended up in Thailand, and then in fall
• 42:28
  Speaker 11: of twenty twenty four, the US embassy started reaching out
• 42:33
  Speaker 11: to me because he had been hospitalized in Thailand. This
• 42:39
  Speaker 11: is all of this is going to sound very terrible
• 42:41
  Speaker 11: to say, but you know, when he was in prison
• 42:44
  Speaker 11: and in the hospital, like at least I knew where
• 42:47
  Speaker 11: he was, and then I think presumably his medical stuff
• 42:51
  Speaker 11: continued to devolve, and then in early essentially just over
• 42:56
  Speaker 11: a year ago, he passed away in Thailand.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry.
• 43:02
  Speaker 11: Very mixed feelings.
• 43:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I actually have his ashes and.
• 43:06
  Speaker 11: I don't know what to do with them right now.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: And what is the feeling of of having them there?
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like, I mean, do you have any
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: feelings left?
• 43:15
  Speaker 11: It's I was because I after you all reached out,
• 43:18
  Speaker 11: I went back and listened to the initial podcast reporting
• 43:23
  Speaker 11: and I remember immediately after because we recorded that it
• 43:30
  Speaker 11: sort of ended with the phone conversation that you facilitated
• 43:33
  Speaker 11: between the two of us, and then within a couple
• 43:35
  Speaker 11: of hours that I was driving back from New York
• 43:38
  Speaker 11: to DC, and I remember feeling so overwhelmed emotionally. I
• 43:45
  Speaker 11: was feeling I think mostly anger at that point because
• 43:50
  Speaker 11: I felt so stonewalled and like I couldn't really break
• 43:55
  Speaker 11: through to him in any meaningful way. And I remember
• 43:59
  Speaker 11: feeling like my heart was racing.
• 44:01
  Speaker 7: I was so.
• 44:02
  Speaker 11: Angry and sad, and I stopped at like a rest
• 44:07
  Speaker 11: stop and called my mom and tried to like work
• 44:10
  Speaker 11: through my feelings because I didn't want to drive in
• 44:12
  Speaker 11: a rage.
• 44:13
  Speaker 7: For three more hours.
• 44:16
  Speaker 11: I think I had grieved our relationship so much at
• 44:21
  Speaker 11: that point that with his passing, it was more of
• 44:26
  Speaker 11: a okay, this is over.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Do you think that conversation where we called him up?
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you think ultimately it was helpful.
• 44:35
  Speaker 11: I think it was helpful in.
• 44:39
  Speaker 10: Showing me.
• 44:42
  Speaker 11: That our relationship, like in many ways, was effectively over
• 44:48
  Speaker 11: and that that was unlikely to change. I'm sure there
• 44:52
  Speaker 11: are small things that I could have done differently, but
• 44:56
  Speaker 11: I don't think there was any I don't think I
• 44:59
  Speaker 11: could have behaved in such a way that I got
• 45:02
  Speaker 11: my dad back in any meaningful way.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Story ends up, you know, with the story of Martin.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: What what became of that? Did you do the Yeah?
• 45:15
  Speaker 11: I haven't done. Yeah, I haven't done any DNA testing.
• 45:19
  Speaker 11: More from like a data privacy concern.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Is that the only thing that keeps you from doing it?
• 45:24
  Speaker 11: I mean I'm sure there, I'm sure there are other
• 45:27
  Speaker 11: uninspected reasons. Yeah, I've clearly never made the effort to
• 45:32
  Speaker 11: do it, which is I guess a signal in and
• 45:34
  Speaker 11: of itself.
• 45:35
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: So, I mean just generally, like top line, things are good.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: You're doing okay you guys? Yeah, I mean, your husband,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: your dog, Thanks.
• 45:44
  Speaker 11: Were great. I'm so glad the dat updates are all wild,
• 45:47
  Speaker 11: but I'm grateful for my personal life being relatively stable.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks Elise, you may exit the closet now.
• 45:57
  Speaker 11: Excellent. Thank you, it was good to catch up.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: be back in two weeks time with something a little different.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: You might even say wildly different. You might say it's
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: something of a wild card.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Also, if you haven't heard, we've started a free newsletter
• 46:29
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  Speaker 2: Much to my sugar, and we are now including a word.
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• 46:41
  Speaker 1: would you say it's a poor POORI?
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: I would say it's a pot pourri.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, excuse me. It smells as good as a pot pourri,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: and it looks great sitting on the basin of your
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• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, of course everything needs a link these days.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: The link is patreon dot com. Slash Heavyweight