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Why is there a war on raw milk? | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

0:35
None. Sadie Morrell, thank you for
0:40
joining me in the trenches. Thank, thank you for having me.
0:44
I say trenches, obviously metaphorically, but there is an
0:48
information war. I mean particularly around milk.
0:50
I mean, just about everywhere you go in the world, you cannot
0:55
drink unpasteurized milk. Well, not in the states.
0:58
We've been working on this for 25 years.
1:03
So the milk is regulated by the states, not the federal
1:07
government. So what we've been doing is
1:11
working on the state level to liberalise the laws.
1:15
We have a website, realmilk.com, and the when we started there
1:22
were about 30 sources of raw milk in America and now there's
1:26
about 5000. So it's very available in
1:30
America now. In other parts of the world, it
1:33
just depends. But we also list, we list
1:37
sources in Europe and other places.
1:40
What is your background? I'm an English major, of course
1:45
it totally qualifies me for what I'm doing.
1:49
Actually, actually, actually, no, wait, hold on.
1:51
That does qualify you because I think people who get stuck into
1:54
the academic paradigms get, they get restricted by the lanes in
2:00
which they are put That's. Right.
2:02
Well, you know, the other English major who's made a name
2:06
for himself is Joel Salatin, the famous farmer.
2:09
So I like to say that neither of us is qualified for what we do.
2:13
But no. But I'm a writer and I wrote a
2:17
book called Nourishing Traditions that sold very well,
2:22
and it's been quite influential. And I've written other books
2:26
besides. But Nourishing Traditions was
2:28
what? That was the first volley in
2:30
this war against the low fat paradigm, the the pasteurised
2:37
milk paradigm. Well, let's just start with the
2:40
absolute basics, because somebody told me recently that
2:44
just drinking cow's milk as a whole is not a good idea.
2:49
You know what, Jeremy? I've been around a long time and
2:53
I have yet to see a person turn into a cow by drinking cow.
3:00
When we look, and of course we look at the work of Weston
3:03
Price, and the healthiest people that he studied were those who
3:06
had herds, and we're drinking raw cow's milk or raw goat's
3:11
milk. We have the example in the
3:14
Scandinavia of the people who drink reindeer milk.
3:17
They're very healthy. We have the Mongolians who drink
3:22
mare's milk. We have people in Africa who
3:25
drink camel's milk all over the world, for thousands of years,
3:30
people have drunk the milk of various species of animals and
3:34
they're healthier for it because milk is such a complete food.
3:39
I was in China a few months ago and I drank camel's milk and it
3:44
wasn't too bad. Yeah, camel's milk is saltier
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than other milks, which I think is kind of interesting.
3:51
Yes, but it wasn't too bad. I won't drink it and on purpose.
3:56
Well, cow's milk is just so absolutely delicious when the
4:00
cows are eating grass and when the and when it's full fat, it's
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just, it's like an elixir. But then, Saddy, why is there a
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war on unpasteurized milk? Well, it started back in the
4:15
1800s and we really didn't have a problem with the milk at that
4:18
time. The milk in New York and the
4:20
other cities was filthy. It was coming from confinement
4:24
dairies in the cities who and the cows were eating the swill
4:28
from whiskey production. So they're very poorly
4:31
nourished. And they actually added chalk to
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the milk to make it look white. And the death rate among
4:39
children in these cities was 50%.
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Now wasn't only the fault of the milk.
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There were no sewers. There's no clean water.
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I mean, the cities were just squalid.
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The festering heaps of horse and mule manure.
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And all of this was called the milk problem.
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It was all blamed on the milk and certainly it was partly due
5:03
to the milk. And eventually we got things
5:07
cleaned up. You know, the car replaced the
5:09
horse and they put sewers in and they cleaned up the water and,
5:13
and we got refrigeration and we set up a system of bringing
5:18
clean milk from the countryside into the cities and the death
5:22
rate went down. But then pasteurisation came
5:27
along as a supposed solution to this and the the problem had
5:33
already been solved. But the people could see the
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monopolist could see a way of monopolising and controlling the
5:42
sale of milk by pasteurising because it forced the farmers to
5:47
sell their milk to the dairy company by law and they could no
5:53
longer set their price and and the dairy companies were the
5:56
ones making the profit on the milk.
6:00
I'm very glad that you are in line with Weston Price because
6:04
Weston Price has done incredible work over the years.
6:09
Well, so Weston Price. He died in 1948.
6:14
The. Year.
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Well, I mean the whole foundation.
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Oh, and the foundation? We set up the foundation in in
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2000 to carry on his legacy because really, he's the one
6:23
who's shown us what kind of diet supports true health in people.
6:29
Yeah, he was a dentist, wasn't he?
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Pardon me. He was a dentist, wasn't he?
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He was a dentist and for 10 years he went to different parts
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of the globe looking for truly isolated, what do you call
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primitive people? And he found fourteen groups
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that had superb health, no cavities, broad faces, naturally
6:51
straight teeth, robust physiques, ease of childbirth in
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the women and absence of chronic disease.
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So these people don't exist anymore and it's certainly not
7:04
true of our society. But then the question is, well,
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what were these people eating? And the diets were different
7:12
everywhere. Some of them did have milk, of
7:14
course, it was raw milk. But the Eskimos and the South
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Sea Islanders, they didn't have milk, but they were equally
7:20
healthy. The cultures that didn't have
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milk made a point of eating bones.
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They crushed up the bones of small animals or fish or birds
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and added the crushed bones to their food to get calcium.
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The the the common denominator in all of these diets was that
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they were very high in minerals and very high in what we call
7:48
the fat soluble vitamins AD and K.
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And where do we get those vitamins in all the foods we're
7:54
being told not to eat the eggs and the yolks of the eggs with
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butter, organ meats. Blood was a very good source of
8:03
these nutrients. And I see a little grimace
8:07
there, but you know, a blood sausage is fixture in European
8:12
diets ever it was. So it's much.
8:16
Easier, but I think I think I'll I'll be OK with the steak and
8:21
and and saturated fat. Well, but The thing is, The
8:25
thing is the steak is fine and if you always want to eat meat
8:28
with the fat, but you're not going to get your fat soluble
8:31
vitamins from the steak, you need to eat liver once a week,
8:35
just like our ancestors did to get the vitamin A.
8:39
Yeah. I mean what you're touching on
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there is sort of ketogenic, low carbohydrate, almost almost
8:45
carnivore type diet. Well, not the way it's practised
8:50
today. And these, they don't understand
8:53
the importance of the organ meats and the fats.
8:58
And you do need carbs. There were very few diets that
9:03
didn't have carbs. The ones that didn't have carbs,
9:07
80% of calories were from fat. That's a little bit hard to do,
9:12
but we need carbs for thyroid function.
9:15
So it's not it's it's low carb, but it's not no carb.
9:20
What's the name of that? Is it a Swedish?
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Swedish explorer about 100 years ago who went and lived with the
9:26
Eskimos. Stefansen, Stefansen.
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Yeah, that's him. Yeah.
9:31
Incredible results. Yeah, but he's stressed how
9:35
important the fat was. And he, he said that when
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traditional cultures kill, like kill the Buffalo, OK, the first
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thing they did was eat the brain, the liver, the marrow,
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which is 90% fat, and the tongue.
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Then they they kept some of the lean meat, but most of it that
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was just thrown away to the dogs and they kept all the fat.
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So on an old Buffalo you'd have 50 lbs of fat and then the meat
10:06
was smoked or dried, preserved in some way, and they always ate
10:11
the meat with the fat. So just for clarity, raw and
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unpasteurized milk are the same thing.
10:19
That's right. But but unpasteurized comes from
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Louis Pasteur, who hated germs. Yes, right.
10:27
Well, he was. He was quite a a manipulator
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actually. And a fraud is, is what you're
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wanting to say. Yeah.
10:38
Well, I don't say fraud, but he was very political and he was
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determined to get his view out there.
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And we is very, there's quite a bit of evidence that he cheated
10:52
on some of his studies and he was out to smell vaccine.
10:57
Yeah. He, he saw a lot of money in it.
10:59
Yeah. His counterpart at the time, I
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think, was Antonio Bechamp. Who?
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Yeah, who I've whose work I've read and I've find extremely
11:09
persuasive. Who said that we have these
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microzymes, the tiny, tiny little specks, and they're sort
11:14
of potential life forms. And then, depending on the
11:19
circumstances, they will turn into, you know, different types
11:24
of bacteria. But now you've said that the CDC
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and the FDA consider raw milk the enemy.
11:33
But to what end? I mean, how do they gain from
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from demonising it in? The pockets of the dairy
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industry, the dairy industry, it's huge, it's very powerful.
11:43
The executives earn salaries in the 1,000,000 while the farmers
11:48
are going out of business. And in the last 20 years they
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have not raised the prices that they're paying the farmer.
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So the farmer's getting the same price for his milk that he got
11:59
in World War 2 and he can't make World War Two.
12:04
He he's getting $1.50 a gallon. I've heard prices as low as
12:09
$0.65 a gallon for the farmers and they can't, they can't
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survive and the farms are going out of business.
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I think it's the rate of 16 per week.
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And it's just decimated the Country Life, the rural life in
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America. So what these farmers learn or
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realise is they can they can actually make a decent living
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selling raw milk and many have transitioned to raw milk.
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So here in South Africa it's still illegal to sell raw milk.
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Everything has to be pasteurised.
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But you can, you can get around it by going to say a farmer and
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you say look, it's it's for animals.
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And then they'll sell it to you or even give it to you.
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Yeah, so I have a farm here in Maryland and we sell milk for
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dogs and cats. And quote unquote.
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There are a lot of cats, dogs and cats around here because
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it's our best seller, you know, people are lined up for it.
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And we have a number of states like that, New Jersey, I think
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Florida, North Carolina. So there's a few states where
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that loophole is definitely being used.
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Now, I've been told my whole life that raw milk is bad for
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you. Well, you've been told it's
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dangerous and it'll kill you. So we have a gal who looked
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very, very carefully at all the statistics.
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And since 2000, with probably 10 to 20 million people drinking
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raw milk, there may have been 2 deaths.
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One of these deaths I don't think existed at all, and the
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other death I think was due to something else, but they blame
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it on raw milk. So they say there's been two
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deaths, but there's been 5 or 6 deaths from pasteurised milk.
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So it's not like in pasteurised milk, it's completely safe
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either. But what is the argument against
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raw milk? What is the actual argument?
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Well. That it's dangerous, that it'll
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kill you, that it's. No, but like, why?
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Why what? Like what's in it that's going
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to kill you? These bacteria in it and the
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bacteria are dangerous and they'll kill you.
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But The thing is, well, we produce raw milk that has no
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bacteria in it. It's very possible to do it in a
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clean way, but even if it does have bacteria in it, they're not
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necessarily pathogenic bacteria. And we know now that you need
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good bacteria in the gut, and the bacteria in raw milk help
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populate the gut with the good bacteria.
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So it's all based on an outdated paradigm that bacteria are bad.
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And we now know that you can't live without bacteria.
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But the the bureaucrats are stuck in their old beliefs, I
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guess. But is it actually evidence that
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the bacteria in raw milk is toxic?
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No, I mean, bacteria can turn toxic.
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Let's just say the milk is extracted in very, very
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unsanitary conditions and the milk could turn to the bacteria
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could turn toxic. But, and that's why you need to
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know what you're doing when you're milking cows.
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You know, not everyone is qualified to, to be a dairy
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farmer. Not, not everybody has that kind
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of personality to be very meticulous.
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But we have plenty of unregulated dairies in this
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country that are producing perfectly good milk.
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And nobody's getting sick, and nobody's certainly nobody's
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dying. OK but the counter argument
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might be then. OK, but then do people get sick
15:55
from pasteurised milk? Yes, and they do.
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In fact we had a case, it was in 2007.
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There were three deaths from milk that had been completely,
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perfectly pasteurised and there were three deaths and a lot of
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people sick. And you know the other thing,
16:11
Jeremy, which they never tell you, the largest outbreak of
16:16
foodborne illness in history took place in 1980, four, 1985,
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and it was from a dairy that was pasteurising the milk it was
16:24
from. Pasteurising really, What
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happened? And it was hundreds of thousands
16:28
of people got sick. I don't know if there were any
16:31
deaths, but oh, they just get carried on and maybe looked at
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some of the sanitary procedures or something.
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But the pasteurisation did not protect the public.
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The process of pasteurising milk though, does it also reduce the
16:50
nutritional value? Yes, and this is what we've been
16:54
saying and we know that all the enzymes are killed when you
16:58
pasteurise milk and every vitamin and mineral in milk.
17:03
And of course, it's a very nutrient dense food, has a
17:09
enzyme that attaches to it and ensures complete assimilation
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because milk is designed for a baby that does not have a
17:19
digestive system that's fully online yet.
17:21
So those enzymes have to be there.
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And that that's what makes milk so good for people with
17:28
compromised digestion, people who are, you know, have a lot of
17:34
health problems, low energy because all the nutrients are
17:37
absorbed. Now you've got two things going
17:40
on here. You've got pasteurisation, the
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old type of pasteurisation, which was a slow heating to 160°
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and that's bad, but it's not nearly as bad as what they do
17:52
today, which is ultra high temperature or high temperature
17:56
pasteurisation. That is a rapid heating pass.
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Super heated stainless steel plates.
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It takes the milk to 280°F. That is so hot that not only is
18:09
it destroyed the enzymes, it's destroyed all the proteins in
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the milk and that's where you get allergies, you get
18:15
anaphylactic shock. They've been there are 20 to 30
18:19
deaths per year from anaphylactic shock to milk.
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And that's because these proteins are foreign proteins
18:25
for the body. And you know, there's the body
18:29
really doesn't have a very good way of dealing with them.
18:35
So if I'm correct, the process of pasteurisation it's basically
18:41
just heating up the milk and then cooling it down quickly?
18:44
Well, it's either heating it up slowly or heating up very
18:47
rapidly and then cooling down. But it's the heating, it's not
18:53
the cooling that's the problem. Which kills everything.
18:56
Yeah, which really kills everything and that's why milk
19:01
drinking is associated with all these problems, allergies,
19:05
asthma, respiratory disease and digestive disorders.
19:10
And of course, the parents take the children off of milk.
19:13
They say my kids allergic to milk.
19:15
Well, they are. They're allergic to pasteurised
19:17
milk. But very often they find that
19:21
the children can tolerate raw milk beautifully and thrive on
19:25
it. Well our kid is 17 months old
19:30
and he's had raw milk and he was fine.
19:34
And he also had breast milk, right?
19:36
Yes, He's never actually he's Yeah, well, he's never had
19:39
formula. Yeah, only breast milk.
19:40
And he's thriving, right? He's never been sick.
19:44
Yeah, I have 5 grandchildren all brought up in raw milk and
19:48
they've never been sick. Oh, and unvaccinated, I might
19:51
add. Yeah, same with me.
19:53
Unvaccinated raw milk, cod liver oil, Those are the three.
19:56
That's the triumvirate for making sure that you have
19:59
healthy kids. And it's, you know, they're much
20:03
healthier than I was. They, they don't have allergies,
20:08
they don't have asthma, they're just perfectly normal, healthy
20:13
children. And that is the, the, the right
20:18
of a child is to be healthy like that.
20:20
You just know how have to know how to do it.
20:23
And then to make matters worse, not only is the milk
20:26
pasteurised, but then they mark it hard, low fat or even skim
20:33
milk. Yeah, I mean, pasteurised low
20:36
fat milk is a poison, absolute poison, because it will not only
20:42
not give you the vitamin A you need, but it will deplete you of
20:45
vitamin A you're getting from other foods.
20:48
How will it do that? Well, when you need, when you
20:52
eat protein, the body releases vitamin A from the liver because
20:57
you need vitamin A to process the protein, to assimilate the
21:00
protein. So I'm very concerned about
21:02
these high protein diets that don't have enough fat in them,
21:06
that don't have cod liver oil, where they're not eating liver,
21:09
they're not getting vitamin A, not eating butter.
21:14
And that's that's the danger I think of these carnivore diets.
21:18
They really don't understand how traditional cultures ate meat.
21:23
They threw most of the meat away in an animal and ate the fat in
21:27
the organ meats. And I, I know it's, it's hard
21:31
for us because we don't have the taste for that.
21:34
It's actually easier in Europe to do this because there's a lot
21:37
of liver sandwiches, liver Pate, blood sausage and all these
21:43
nutrient dense foods if you'll eat them, you know, but we don't
21:47
have those things in the States. So you have to try harder.
21:52
Yeah, that gentleman who lived with the Eskimos that we spoke
21:55
about, he only ate, I think seal meat and and basically fish and
22:00
then some vegetables once here and there because of, you know,
22:05
the the conditions were not conducive to to, to, to plants.
22:10
And he was perfectly healthy, but he had a berries.
22:11
They had berries in the summer. Big treat.
22:15
But when you say seal, I mean the seal, of course, is a very
22:19
savvy animal. And they ate the fat, seal fat.
22:23
And it was also the highest food in vitamin A that Doctor Price
22:27
ever tested. So it's very rich in vitamin A.
22:32
The problem is that people don't want to eat a cute animal.
22:36
They don't want to eat what? A cute animal.
22:39
A cute animal. Yeah, I mean a seal.
22:42
The seal's cute. I.
22:44
Don't know I I wouldn't want to eat a cat or a dog but.
22:48
I can. I think I could.
22:49
Eat a seal. But you said that most of the
22:54
nutrients get lost in the pasteurising pasteurisation
22:57
process. But I mean, not only do they get
23:01
lost, they get completely destroyed.
23:04
Well the enzymes get destroyed and some of the nutrients are
23:08
destroyed. B2 riboflavin is destroyed.
23:12
Vitamin C is completely destroyed.
23:13
Now, when you think of it, someone.
23:15
B12. What?
23:17
B12 also. B12B6 So some really key
23:21
nutrients are completely destroyed, others are
23:24
diminished. But let's just think of somebody
23:27
driving camels across the desert.
23:30
The vitamin C in the milk is what's going to keep them from
23:33
getting scurvy. Yeah, not eating oranges.
23:39
Yeah, I mean it's, you're getting the all the vitamins
23:42
that were in the grass or in the foliage that they ate.
23:47
We, we can't digest leaves like those kind of leaves, we can't
23:50
digest grass. But the animals have 3 or 4
23:54
stomachs and they do it for us and they give us this beautiful,
23:58
delicious, I don't know, concoction of grass in the milk
24:04
with, with fat, with fat so that you are digesting the protein.
24:09
Sorry but could be horseshoe back to the original comment
24:12
that well that's because we shouldn't be drinking milk from
24:17
an animal. Well, that if you want to, you
24:22
know, I would say suit yourself, but I wouldn't.
24:28
I don't think there's any religion that tells you not to
24:30
eat drink. An.
24:32
Animal Why don't we drink human milk?
24:35
Well, some people do. You know, John D Rockefeller
24:39
drank human milk. He got it donated, or he bought
24:42
it and he drank raw human milk. He thought that was part of the
24:46
reason he lived so long. It's not a, it's not a thought
24:50
that I like, but it is nonetheless A valid question.
24:53
Human milk though, and sometimes they drink human milk up to the
24:56
age of 5, so I mean, there's certainly nothing.
25:02
And it's highly nutritious. Oh my goodness.
25:05
Yeah. If the mother's eating well,
25:07
yeah. I mean, how do you, how do you
25:12
push back when you have a system, a state imposed system
25:17
that is against raw milk? We have just done it
25:23
persistently, quietly. We've never given up.
25:29
We've created a very strong demand.
25:34
What's interesting to me in the early days of this, the state
25:38
regulators were always coming after these little farms and
25:41
trying to shut them down or taking their inventory and
25:45
throwing it away. It was terribly wasteful.
25:47
And they stopped doing that now because they were we, we
25:53
embarrassed them. We, we, we got in the news, we
25:58
got on the Internet, we came to the trials and testified and
26:04
they, they just were very embarrassed by this.
26:06
And it's just stopped. All of this harassment has
26:13
stopped. Raw powdered milk for for
26:18
babies. I don't know.
26:22
You can't do powdered milk raw, I don't think, or.
26:25
Formula, shall we say? Yeah.
26:28
So there's several problems with formula, but one is that the
26:34
milk is highly processed, powdered, and that destroys the
26:39
proteins. Also, they only put, there's
26:42
very few formulas that have whole milk.
26:44
They put skim milk in the formula.
26:46
And now if you're feeding formula to animals, the third
26:50
ingredient that's listed on the label is animal fat because they
26:54
know that these animals can't survive or thrive without animal
26:59
fat. But human babies don't get any
27:01
animal fat in their formula. They skim milk and vegetable
27:06
oils. It's and that's just because the
27:10
skim milk is cheaper. If you do drink skim or low fat
27:15
milk, I'm guessing you need to counter that thing with a lot
27:19
more saturated fat in your diet. Yeah, so eat a lot of butter.
27:25
Which begs the question, why are you?
27:26
Why are you taking the butter out of the milk?
27:29
You know. Yes.
27:31
But here's the thing, the it's my back door.
27:39
The the industry has figured out how to maximise their profit on
27:47
the butter fat and they don't make a lot of profit if they
27:50
just sell butter or if they sell whole milk.
27:52
If they take the butter fat out and put it in ice cream, the
27:57
they make five times as much on the butter fat.
28:00
So what they want you to do is be on this horrible low fat diet
28:04
all day long and by 8:00 in the evening you're just craving fat
28:09
and you go to the freezer and get the half gallon of ice cream
28:13
and you eat the whole thing. That's what they want you to do
28:16
because that's where they make the money is an ice cream.
28:20
Do you think those authorities in government know the truth or
28:26
they're just being paid off? The accountants in the dairy
28:28
industry know the truth. It's all it's all about
28:32
maximising profit off of this this product's milk.
28:38
The other thing, so the things that make the most profit are
28:41
ice cream cheese and whey powder.
28:45
And whey powder is the you know what they do with the whey from
28:52
making cheese, and that's extremely profitable.
28:54
Bodybuilders love it. Yeah, they shouldn't be.
28:57
Drinking, taking it, it's, it's very toxic to the kidneys, but
29:01
it's pushed on the bodybuilders, you know, people have schemes,
29:07
sales schemes and it's pushed on these people so.
29:12
You might be at an advantage now with Bobby Kennedy in his
29:17
position. Bobby drinks raw milk.
29:21
In fact, he's we've supplied him with raw milk a few times.
29:27
Yeah. And yeah.
29:32
So do you think he's going to? Attack this or is the Is the
29:35
dairy industry too strong? See this is all.
29:38
First of all, this is regulated by the health departments or the
29:43
agriculture departments in the individual states.
29:46
It's not regulated by the federal government.
29:47
So all he can do is encourage it and but there's nothing legal
29:53
that he can do to kind of free up raw milk.
29:57
And actually, Jeremy, we don't need to.
29:59
We've really accomplished what we set out to accomplish.
30:03
Just for example in. Maryland.
30:05
Here where I am, I got the first pet milk permit and now there's
30:09
about four or five dozen in the whole state.
30:12
There's raw milk everywhere now in Maryland.
30:16
But did you say, did you say pet?
30:18
Milk. Yeah, Dogs and cats.
30:22
OK, so it's still not quite. There yet it's I mean, you still
30:25
have to put it under the guise of animals.
30:28
Well. We haven't changed the milk.
30:32
It's a loophole, there's no question.
30:33
It's a loophole that we've taken advantage of, but and that's
30:38
because we could not get the cooperation of the Department of
30:42
Health. They they, you know, stymied us
30:46
every every, every step of the way.
30:51
So we tried something else. Does pasteurisation.
30:55
Only occur with cow's milk. What about goat's milk?
31:01
Well, they they can. Pasteurise any kind of milk.
31:04
There's not a lot of goat goat milk consumed.
31:08
I I've never seen goat milk in the stores.
31:12
I guess. I guess there's a.
31:13
Little bit, but yeah, they make goat cheese with the goat milk.
31:17
I'm not a fan. Though I find the.
31:19
Taste just a bit too sharp. Yeah, the battle against.
31:28
Pasteurisation. I mean, how old is this?
31:31
Maybe like a century. So for the yeah, the first.
31:35
Mandatory pasteurisation was in 1913 in New York City and there
31:42
were people there who were in favour of raw milk.
31:45
They thought it was healthier, they thought it was just a safe.
31:49
But the argument they used was, well we don't have the money to
31:54
inspect all these little farms. If we had just the pasteurising
31:59
plants, we could just inspect there.
32:01
And that was the reason given for making pasteurisation
32:04
mandatory. And I had my own inspector when
32:07
we first started out. She said, Sally, we, we just
32:10
can't afford to regulate and inspect all these little
32:14
dairies. Then that's why we don't want to
32:17
do this. So it's just the, it's, I don't
32:22
want to say the laziness of the bureaucrats, but it's, it's all
32:25
it comes back down to money. And how can they afford to
32:30
inspect all these small dairies that you would have if you were
32:33
doing raw milk? But for the.
32:37
Entirety of human existence. They they've been drinking raw
32:41
milk. That's right.
32:42
That's right. We're making cheese.
32:46
Or fermenting it in some way? Is it safe to freeze?
32:52
Raw milk, yes. People who can't get out to a
32:56
dairy very often, we advise them to buy what they need and freeze
33:00
it and the enzymes are maintained.
33:05
What What we don't recommend is freeze drying because even
33:10
though there's no heat involved, there's a study that showed that
33:13
the proteins are just as warped and distorted with the freeze
33:16
drying as with heat treatment. How do you?
33:24
Verify the source of your of the safety of your raw milk.
33:28
Do you just have to kind of do do a lot of homework?
33:30
Yeah. So the raw.
33:32
Milk should be coming from a farmer who's milking his own
33:34
cows. OK.
33:36
And there are now very accurate tests you can do on the farm.
33:44
We test every day. We test our milk every day and
33:48
we test for what's called coliform, which is the benign
33:51
bacteria. But if you have a high coliform
33:54
count, you might have some pathogens.
33:56
Well, our counts are 01/2, I mean.
34:01
If it gets any higher. I know that something hasn't
34:03
been cleaned and we fix it, but to me this is a game changer.
34:07
This this coliform test because you can keep track of what's
34:13
going on with your milk and, and, but I mean, OK, so let's.
34:18
Just talk about the layman. If you are just visiting a farm,
34:23
I mean and you eyeballing, what are some of the things you
34:26
should look out for? Well, you should look for
34:28
cleanliness. You should look for Do they
34:31
test? Do they clean out their parlour
34:36
floor every day? Not a lot of farmers do, yeah.
34:41
So they should and. Taste how?
34:43
How long does it last in the refrigerator?
34:45
It should last two weeks. I heard the other way around.
34:49
That that if it lasts too long, that's not a good sign.
34:56
Well, because then because it because then.
34:58
Because then it's got additives potentially.
35:01
Well, it should last. Without additives it should last
35:03
because it's really clean, right, right, right.
35:06
OK. Right, I got you so.
35:11
The way in which the cows. Themselves eat also does that
35:15
make a difference yes so we. Call this a campaign for real
35:19
milk. And by real we mean full fat,
35:23
non pasteurised and pasture fed. Grass fed.
35:26
Because grass is the natural food for a cow.
35:29
She's uniquely designed to digest grass.
35:33
Grass and Clover so. Our cows are out on pasture all
35:37
the time now. At this time of year there's no
35:40
pasture, but we give them hay when they come in, we give them
35:43
a little bit of grain and we give them some alfalfa pellets.
35:49
And the actual milking. Itself, is our machines fine?
35:53
Yeah, we, yes, we use. Machines.
35:57
But as long as they're clean. Oh yes, we have a.
36:00
Way of cleaning them. They get cleaned every day.
36:06
And the cows. Not not only grass fed, but they
36:11
should be fairly free of antibiotics and other
36:14
injections. Oh absolutely.
36:16
And there's no. Need for them we, we've never
36:19
used antibiotics. We use homoeopathic herbs and
36:22
and things like that. But if the cow is producing very
36:27
thick milk, we take her off the line and we let the calves drink
36:32
from her. So I think what I'm what I'm.
36:36
Yeah. So the picture I'm trying to
36:37
paint you is it's not just the milk that's in the bottle, but
36:40
it's the it's the it's, it's the lead up to that that bottle
36:45
well. We we milk into cans.
36:48
I mean, there's nothing that touches the milk and there's no
36:51
exposure to air between the the teeth and the can.
36:56
That's it, Just goes right in. And then we.
37:02
Put the can. In a kind of.
37:03
Cradle and we first of all we philtre the milk and pour it
37:07
through a philtre, and then we put the can in a kind of cradle
37:10
and. Bottle that way.
37:14
And then it's immediately chilled.
37:17
So the exposure to air is possibly 10 seconds and then the
37:23
top goes on and then it's chilled.
37:27
And what about heating milk That what on the.
37:31
Heating. Milk on the stove or in the
37:32
microwave or whatever? Well, you shouldn't use a.
37:35
Microwave. You know that you're trying to
37:40
trap me here. You shouldn't use microwave
37:44
because it destroys the food if you want to heat it.
37:50
Like set it in a container C set in simmering water and heat it
37:57
up. You can go to 110° but no
38:01
higher. And so if you're you want raw
38:04
yoghurt, you don't go fast. 110 Yeah, I'm asking that.
38:08
Actually, I mean, I was being a bit facetious, but with our with
38:11
our little boy, we still warm up milk, but we warm it up in
38:15
water. Yes, right, right.
38:19
And it's still you can touch it, yes.
38:22
I mean, it's not, it's not hot. It's not hot, it's just warm.
38:25
So if you think of Fahrenheit, the Fahrenheit system 0 is an
38:32
extremely cold day and 100 is a very hot day, right?
38:38
Can you drink more raw milk than you can pasteurised milk?
38:45
Yeah. Oh yeah.
38:46
Yeah, you can drink raw milk exclusively and in fact it's
38:50
called the raw milk diet or the milk cure.
38:54
And that was done in hospitals back in the early part of the
38:57
1900's. The Mayo Clinic with a very
38:59
famous hospital today, started off by administering the milk
39:05
cure and it was very successful. The diet was just about four
39:10
quarts of raw milk sipped slowly throughout the day, like 1/2 a
39:14
cup every every half hour or something.
39:18
And it was very successful for detoxification and for
39:21
nourishing, very successful with kidney problems.
39:25
Help people lose weight. It treated.
39:28
Cancer with the raw milk cure. So yes, you can drink an.
39:33
Exclusive milk diet. I think another benefit of
39:39
pointing out the benefits of raw milk and knowing that the shops
39:45
don't want to to stock it is that it kind of encourages you
39:49
to support local. You know, go and find a farmer
39:52
yes. I mean there's a subliminal
39:56
positive net benefit there because the farmer will be much
39:59
happier with you coming direct to him.
40:02
Yes, yes, but if you. Can't you know, like, let's just
40:07
say California, My daughter lives in California.
40:11
You can go to a shop, a food store, and buy raw milk in
40:15
California. They don't all really.
40:18
Wow. And there are.
40:20
About 13 or. 14 states in America where you can buy raw
40:23
milk in the store so. It's all.
40:26
It's all over the. Map about what's possible then
40:30
for ours, the pet milk, they have to either come to our on
40:34
farm store or we can sell it at farmers markets.
40:38
But there's a weird kind. Of subliminal propaganda going
40:42
on here. Because if they say no, no, it's
40:44
fine, you can buy raw milk for your animals.
40:47
Yeah. What are they saying?
40:48
What are they? What are they actually saying?
40:49
They're saying, well, we don't care.
40:50
Safe and healthy for animals. Yes.
40:54
Yeah, well. The implication?
40:55
Is that? The animals have a stronger
40:58
immune system or something. Yeah, that's the implication.
41:03
It's just ridiculous if you. Think about it for more than 10
41:05
seconds. Oh yeah, the whole thing is.
41:08
Ridiculous. But there it's been the, well,
41:12
the subject of intense propaganda for so long that most
41:17
people just accept this that raw milk is dangerous without, you
41:21
know, without really thinking about it.
41:25
OK, so the moral. Of the story Sally is what?
41:31
Don't believe the government, especially when it comes to
41:34
food. It's not just the raw milk, but
41:37
you know, they've been on this relentless campaign against
41:39
butter, against animal fats, against lard, against tallow for
41:45
over 100 years. And this is basically destroying
41:50
our children, destroying everybody really, because you
41:53
absolutely need these animal fats.
41:55
And especially for growing children, you, you need them for
41:58
normal growth. I mean, butter is the fat in all
42:01
mammalian milk for the growth and development of mammals.
42:04
And we're mammals, and the idea that children shouldn't have
42:08
butter and animal fat is. Very.
42:12
Destructive. It's why we're seeing such high
42:14
rates of infertility. It's why we're seeing children
42:19
grow up and not be and be confused about what sex they are
42:23
because they haven't been able to make the proper hormones,
42:26
because they haven't gotten the nutrients that you get in animal
42:29
fats. It's been a disaster.
42:34
It's. It's been a complete disaster
42:37
and thank goodness there are people trying to turn this
42:41
around. You know, in the last few
42:43
months, butter consumption has really gone up in America
42:46
because of Bobby and, and the work of many others.
42:51
Just trying to get it into people's heads, you know, and
42:54
also, I mean, I've found. That cooking in butter and pig
42:57
fat is so much tastier. Yeah, yeah.
43:03
So I I don't use we. Don't use.
43:04
We don't use. Any seed oils at all?
43:07
Yeah, no. And then neither do.
43:08
We we just use olive oil and that's a fruit oil.
43:11
So coconut oil, palm oil and olive oil, those are fruit oils
43:17
and they're much more stable than seed oils.
43:20
And the seed oils were not in the human diet before 1890 when
43:24
they developed the stainless steel roller press.
43:29
So they're completely new to the diet and they they create a real
43:35
imbalance of the types of fats on the cellular level and they
43:38
don't provide the nutrients that the body is expecting to get
43:42
from the animal fats. I'll give you an example.
43:46
A little boy loves sausage, so we'll easily give him a sausage
43:52
in the morning that's all chopped up scrambled eggs.
43:56
And And even. Look, we don't, we can't really
44:00
buy raw milk. It's very difficult to find
44:03
here. But he does get full fat cow's
44:06
milk and he is so healthy. Yeah.
44:12
Yeah. I mean.
44:13
I have a grandson who's 14 months raised on raw milk and
44:19
he's just amazing meeting all his milestones.
44:22
Never been sick. Perfectly normal in every way.
44:27
What? What greater gift can you?
44:29
Give your children and and to give you the your child that
44:31
gift you need to think things through and if.
44:37
Do your own research on this. Subject you go to realmilk.com,
44:41
our website, and we have lots of articles there, but you have to
44:45
learn not to believe everything you hear.
44:49
I was changed. In terms of my dietary
44:54
trajectory, oh, I don't know. Two in the early, early 2000s by
45:01
a gentleman by the name of Gary Taubes.
45:03
Do you know? Oh, Gary.
45:04
Yeah. Yeah, you.
45:06
Know we had him to give a little talk and we all went to a
45:10
restaurant afterwards and nobody ate any potatoes.
45:17
And again. Gary, listen, meat.
45:22
Meat is a very healthy food, but I just think you can overdo it
45:26
and if you don't get enough fat with the meat you're going to
45:28
get in trouble. And also I.
45:31
Tell you, you have a little boy, you try raising your boy on an
45:35
all meat diet. They're going to go out and
45:37
cheat. They need they need some carbs.
45:42
You need to make dessert for them every now and then.
45:44
You know that the sweet things need to come from the parents.
45:48
Can anybody? Honestly, in their heart of
45:50
hearts tell me that there is anything better than bacon and
45:54
eggs in the morning. Exactly.
45:56
Exactly what a wonderful breakfast and bacon is a healthy
45:59
food. It's full of B vitamins and the
46:02
fat and bacon is the most big fat is the most similar to human
46:11
fat with any type of fat. And it's but it's just so.
46:16
Delicious if you do it in butter or lard.
46:20
And remember how they did, how they demonised it in the 80s.
46:24
Oh yeah, yeah. Because they wanted to sell
46:27
vegetable oils, everything was low fat.
46:31
Yeah. But you really weren't eating.
46:34
Low fat? Not if you were eating ice cream
46:38
and you were putting spreads on your toast.
46:43
You know, but ice cream. Is full of sugar Well.
46:47
Of course, horrible. That's not the right way to get
46:50
your animal fats. You want to get your animal
46:52
fats, you know, in meat and put on vegetables, maybe put on
46:58
potatoes, bacon with your scrambled eggs.
47:01
Then you won't crave sugar. But generally keep those.
47:06
Carbohydrates low, yeah. 20% of calories I think would be a
47:12
maximum. Because I mean also if.
47:17
You are fully carnival. Nobody will ever invite you
47:20
around to the house because I know you won't eat anything.
47:23
Yeah, I know. I know it's a very boring diet.
47:26
Yeah. It's not the way we were meant
47:28
to eat. We're really meant to enjoy our
47:30
food and and not. Stray too.
47:34
Far between extremes, you. Know you know when Jesus?
47:39
Cured people, he said. Go and sin no more.
47:43
And that word sin is doesn't mean that you've done something
47:46
horrible. The word is harmatria, which
47:49
means it's an archery term which means to miss the mark, to not
47:53
be right in the centre. And I think people are missing
47:57
the mark. They're either way to carnivore
48:00
or plant based or junk food. None of that is where we need to
48:06
be. We need to be in the centre,
48:08
centre ourselves on good wholesome food with plenty of
48:11
fat, home cooked and delicious. Did you ever?
48:17
Read the China study I've. Written quite a bit about the
48:21
China study so. You know, I'm probably.
48:27
One of the few people in the world who's actually looked at
48:30
the printed version of the China study.
48:32
Because it was printed on very large format, like 12 by 18.
48:37
You can't copy it in a copier and it's in libraries.
48:42
This is the data that they collected and it's never been
48:45
posted online and so I never. This data is not posted online,
48:52
so you can't work with it and 1st.
48:56
Of all, it was a. Terrible study with lots of
48:59
variables. It was done in very poor
49:04
districts. It wasn't really the way most
49:06
Chinese eat, but Mary Anning and I actually analysed this data
49:13
and I wrote an article about it called the China study or
49:16
Chinese Diet. They really didn't find much of
49:20
it. Just give you an example.
49:23
The highest egg consumption was in Singapore and now that was
49:27
also the place with the highest rate of tuberculosis.
49:31
So old, what's his name? Author says well, egg
49:36
consumption was associated with tuberculosis, but it's
49:40
meaningless association. They eat more eggs in Singapore
49:43
because they're wealthier and they have more Western influence
49:47
and they have higher rates of TB because it's a very polluted
49:51
industrial city. There's no correlation between
49:54
eating eggs and getting TB. I'm.
49:58
Trying to think of his name. The author.
50:01
Yeah. Yeah.
50:02
Colin Campbell. Colin Campbell there.
50:04
There we go. Yeah.
50:06
But what I don't understand. I've debated him.
50:09
Oh, really? Yeah, on, you know, on a.
50:11
Podcast. What I don't understand though.
50:15
Is. I mean, I've been to China and
50:18
also Hong Kong and they eat a lot of rice.
50:22
Eat a lot of rice, but Hong. Kong is the highest meat eaters
50:25
in the world. The highest meat diet in the
50:27
world is in Hong Kong. They.
50:29
Cook in. Duck fat and pork fat.
50:32
At least they used. To.
50:34
They're pushing the vegetable oils now.
50:38
It's a diet that had lots of meat in it.
50:43
But also I mean I. Guess you could argue their rice
50:46
is less processed than western rice.
50:48
No, they put TALF. Not.
50:51
Really. They.
50:52
Put talf talf and powder Talf and my colleague Mary Annie
50:57
thought this was why there was such high rates of stomach
50:59
cancer in China. India also, I believe.
51:04
Lots of rice, yeah. And stomach cancer, I think.
51:07
Also the highest rates of diabetes I believe now in India,
51:10
I mean. They don't do this today, but in
51:12
the old days the rice, they, they mix the rice with the
51:16
lentils and they fermented it, you know, soaked it in water at
51:22
least overnight. And then they grounded up and
51:25
they made their idlier doses and a little pancakes with this
51:30
combination of rice and lentils, but it was fermented.
51:37
So what is? Causing the obesity crisis.
51:41
Just too much sugar. And too many carbs and low
51:46
thyroid function and thyroid needs vitamin A and people
51:50
aren't getting enough vitamin A the.
51:54
Addictive Substances. That they're putting in the
51:57
foods MSG, MSG. Destroys the hypothalamus.
52:08
And the hypothalamus is the gland that submits that emits
52:14
appetite suppressing hormones. There haven't there was a very
52:19
interesting study they did in China on MSG and they this was
52:24
rural Chinese families. They weren't eating junk food
52:27
and some families put a lot of MSG in their food and others
52:32
didn't. You know, you can buy MSG in in
52:34
little bottles in China. And the families that use a lot
52:37
of MSG were definitely heavier. It's a very strong correlation.
52:44
Would you say fats? More important than?
52:45
Protein. Yeah, absolutely.
52:47
I. Absolutely would.
52:48
So the way we look at it, the diet is no more than 20% of
52:53
calories as protein and even less when you get older.
52:59
But for growing children, yes, and athletes, but no more than
53:01
20% carbs, about 20 to maybe 40% if you're an athlete or growing
53:09
child. And then the rest fat.
53:11
So this is a diet that's going to be 60 to 70% calories as fat.
53:18
Now this is calories. This is not by weight because
53:21
that's much more caloric I drink.
53:25
Ground coffee with cream? What about cream, by the way?
53:29
We haven't spoken about that. Cream is a wonderful.
53:32
Food. We we make cream on our farm and
53:35
real cream is hard to get, but yeah, it's wonderful food.
53:39
It's very rich. Yeah, very rich.
53:42
It'll offset the bad effects of the coffee.
53:46
Oh, you're not a coffee fan? No, I do enjoy.
53:51
My my ground coffee early in the morning when the sun's coming
53:55
up, though. Well, I'm sure you do.
53:56
I'm sure you do. But really, your body should be
53:59
able to wake up and get going without coffee.
54:03
Just a glass of glass of raw. Milk.
54:06
I was a coffee. Drinker Yeah, I drink a glass of
54:08
raw milk in the morning or or a couple of a mug of broth,
54:12
chicken broth. But I was a very sick woman in
54:16
about my mid about my 30s and I went to this holistic Dr and he
54:23
had me do a foods food log. Of everything I ate.
54:28
And he looked at it and he said, you know you will never be well
54:33
if you don't stop drinking coffee.
54:38
And. So that was a challenge for me
54:41
and it's the hardest thing I ever did in my life.
54:43
It took me about a month of headaches but once.
54:47
I got over. That my health just blossomed,
54:50
all my rashes went away, my fatigue went away, my sometimes
54:57
lack of emotional balance that just settled right down.
55:02
It was the best thing I ever did.
55:04
But I mean, what is it? Then about the coffee, is it the
55:07
caffeine? Because then what about decaf?
55:10
Oh, you could probably. Decaf, all of this, a little bit
55:13
of caffeine in decaf, but to see what the caffeine does is it
55:16
it's like a hammer to your adrenal glands and your adrenal
55:19
glands start pouring out adrenaline and cortisol and that
55:26
keeps you in a state of fight or flights.
55:29
And we were not designed to be in fight or flight all the time.
55:32
You need the rest and digest hormones and eventually your
55:37
adrenal glands get tired. It's called adrenal fatigue and
55:41
it gets harder and harder, first of all to get into fight and
55:43
flight or or to come back down to rest and digest.
55:48
And I read something very interesting recently.
55:51
If your body can't produce enough cortisol, the adrenal
55:55
glands are worn out. You know what it does?
55:57
It makes cortisol out of testosterone, so it lowers your.
56:02
Yes, it lowers. Your Oh no, that's not good.
56:04
Yeah, yeah. I also find that.
56:09
And it's difficult to obviously pinpoint this, but I'm fairly
56:13
convinced that coffee gives me heartburn.
56:17
Yes, it's. Possible.
56:19
Yeah. Now the heartburn is from not
56:22
having enough stomach acid so I don't.
56:24
Know what the caffeine is? Doing.
56:26
But yeah, you need to. So that's interesting.
56:31
Eat more salt and. By the way, high meat diet you
56:34
do need more salt. You're you're, you're.
56:40
Heartburn. Is because you.
56:41
Don't have enough stomach acid and the stomach acid is what
56:44
tells that valve to close so the stomach acid doesn't come up
56:52
your oesophagus. But why do doctors?
56:55
Say you've got too much stomach acid yeah, they're they're wrong
56:59
They. Just don't understand it.
57:00
It's not enough stomach acid. But then how does an antacid?
57:04
Work well it. Lowers your stomach acid Most
57:10
people still get heartburn and because this has to take.
57:13
Them all the time, those those drugs.
57:16
Have terrible side effects. For one thing, they have a lot
57:18
of aluminium in them. Yeah, well, I, I took for about
57:23
15 years until I stopped in 20/20/20, I think.
57:28
Proton pump inhibitors. Oh yeah, they're terrible.
57:31
Drugs, omeprazole I think. Was was the main 1?
57:35
So what? You can do to eat.
57:36
More salt because you make. Hydrochloric.
57:39
Acid out of the chlorine in salt, but you can also take a
57:43
bathing hydrochloric acid supplement.
57:45
I've got a couple of my children on those.
57:48
I have three out of four of my children are, you know, driven,
57:55
ambitious, and I have one child who's very relaxed.
57:59
They, he doesn't need any of those things.
58:03
Hydrochloric acid. I I've seen, I've seen those
58:06
pills. You can take those.
58:07
I don't like the idea of taking a pill though.
58:10
Well, I mean, it's better than. Protein pump inhibitors, yeah,
58:13
for sure. But I.
58:14
Mean just normal salt, putting more salt in your food.
58:17
Yes, that's where I'd. Start and then if that doesn't
58:20
work, then I would take a hydrochloric acid.
58:23
Eat butter. That's what I always say.
58:25
Eat butter. It's the healthiest fat on the
58:27
planet. It's got so many good things in
58:29
it. You know, one of the things in
58:30
butter is something called a rachidonic acid.
58:34
And what do we do with arachidonic acid?
58:36
We do a lot of things, but one of the things we do with it is
58:38
we make our own endogenous cannabinoids.
58:42
Our bodies are designed to have marijuana being produced all the
58:47
time. We have receptors for this, and
58:50
this makes us relaxed but motivated.
58:54
That's what you want. You want to be motivated but not
58:56
hyper. You want to be relaxed and
58:58
motivated. And that's what we get from the
59:01
arachidonic acid in animal fats, especially butter.
59:05
Butter is also a unique source of something called butyric
59:08
acid, which is very important for colon health and for
59:11
digestion. If it's grass fed, butter it.
59:14
Will have conjugated linoleic acid in it, which is the
59:17
strongest anti cancerous substance it's ever been tested.
59:20
It really protects you against cancer.
59:25
So there's just as many wonderful things in butter that
59:28
we can't get elsewhere. And to me that that if you don't
59:32
do anything else, eat butter. Butter is better.
59:37
Butter is better. Before.
59:40
Any accusations come your way, you're not receiving any kind of
59:44
funding from the meat industry and the Weston A Price.
59:47
Foundation doesn't receive that kind of funding and I don't get
59:50
any salary for running the Weston A Price Foundation.
59:53
I would vector your listeners to our website, westonaprice.org
59:59
and hopefully they'll become members and receive our
1:00:01
quarterly journal, which is very popular, become a part of our
1:00:05
family. We also have realmilk.com for
1:00:10
finding raw milk. I'm not sure there's any
1:00:13
listings for South Africa, I'm afraid, but I know that there
1:00:17
are raw milk farms in Africa, maybe not in South Africa.
1:00:20
No, no, we've got them. We've got them, yeah.
1:00:23
We've got them that you just. Have to, you have to fight.
1:00:26
You have to fight for the animal label.
1:00:27
That's that's how it works, Yeah.
1:00:29
Well then. That's fine.
1:00:31
But yeah, and my website, isnourishingtraditions.com, I
1:00:37
haven't posted it in a long time because I'm working on a book,
1:00:40
but there's a lot of interesting stuff there.
1:00:43
I. Will also say that Western Price
1:00:45
website changed my views on polio back in the day.
1:00:48
Interesting, interesting. Yes, polio was caused by lead
1:00:55
arsenate and DDT. Yeah, pesticides.
1:00:58
They're both nerve toxins. Yeah, there was no virus.
1:01:03
There's no virus. And the vaccine didn't change
1:01:05
anything. What changed?
1:01:06
It was they were banned. And then so they started selling
1:01:10
these pesticides in places like India where they kept having
1:01:13
polio, you know? And it's it's that.
1:01:17
Article that I found on the Western Price website that led
1:01:21
me to a book called The Moth in the Iron Lung.
1:01:24
Yes, yes. By Forrest Moretti, and he's
1:01:27
just written a book on raw milk, by the way.
1:01:31
Ah OK, I must contact him. Yeah.
1:01:34
Yeah, he'd be a good one to interview.
1:01:36
Yeah, I have spoken to him. Before he's very quiet though.
1:01:40
Yes, he's. He's a.
1:01:43
He's a he's. Like a he's a hermit.
1:01:46
OK. Sally Morrell, it's been an
1:01:49
absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining me in the
1:01:51
trenches for having me, Jeremy.