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Official Trade Deadline Episode: Everything You Need To Know About Our New Players · Monday Morning Cubs Show

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we're clear.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning, good afternoon, and evening, Chicago Cubs fans, and welcome back to the Monday morning Cub Show Post Trade Deadline Special Edition.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's your host, Carl.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's August Ford.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I am joined by my close pal, my number one, number one side piece.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mahoney, good to see you, my friend.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Carl, it's always a pleasure.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, baller strike.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Babe Ruth didn't exist.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, that clip.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's good for us at Pete Crow Armstrong's as delusional as that clip suggests.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So just somewhere put him in.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's doing shtick.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's all right, Carl.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to see you.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to be with the maniacs on this Tuesday post-trade deadline.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: The Monday morning Cub Show trade deadline special.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's back up for a second.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Mahoney and I talk Sunday night.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Should we do the show before the trade deadline and do the prediction stuff, which I quite frankly hate, as evidenced by the wild moves that were made?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: The other idea was to do it Monday before the Dodgers game, after the trade deadline, then after the Dodgers game, then that turns into a slug fest.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we're up bright early here Tuesday morning with the intended goal of what, Mahoney?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is to deliver you with all of the trade deadline news and moves that the Cubs have made and what it's going to look like for this squad moving forward.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's perfectly said.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's obviously, listen, you've gotten your reactions, you know who these guys are.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: By the time this show has come out, I would hope a lot of maniacs had at least some basis of opinion about the players, which is way better than us just coming in here and talking about the dynamics of, for example, a Zavarijan trade from Moses by Asteros to the Angels, which we're going to get into.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd rather talk about the broader implications.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just glad everybody take a deep breath.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: That said, if you were banking on us at that, you know, 6 p.m.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Eastern, whatever it was, 7 p.m.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Eastern, something like that, you know, then I'll say it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm sorry we weren't here 12 hours earlier.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And but the thing is, we wanted to give you guys our freshest takes.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good that I'm glad that we're rested.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Also, two into that game last night, coming off a huge win, very nice positive start to the week after you know going two and one against New York over the weekend, Carl.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I think first things first, let's get into some of these players.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of want you to, you know, just deal it to me.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm looking at Kevin Gaussman, anytime all-star, stabilizing.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Mahoney, I have to stop you there.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because the show's brought to us by Thirsty Vicaro, Mexican style soda.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Tim.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Tim.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you want to spicy soda with a bold finish, Carl.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: You want to talk about a guy who's fired up for the second half.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you guys hear any air sirens in the background on mine, I'm going to do my best to take them out.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but those just started humming.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, but we are brought to to the people by Thirsty Vaquero, Tim.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to take it from the top on that ad read before we get into baller strike and Kevin Gossman?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Thirsty Vaquero, it's an all-bite, no rattle, signature spicy soda, Mexican-style soda with a bold finish.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Three distinct flavors, Sandia Salvaje, Mango Muerte, Lamone the Drone coming at you, the nastiest bunch of vigilantes.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Go get yourself a vigilante pack on Amazon.com and just taste the flavors, baby.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Taste the flavors.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's the official beverage of the show.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, huge announcement for Thirst of Carol.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the partners coming by the house this week and dropping off some new product that will be in store and available online.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if I have clearance to announce this, but I'm just kind of shooting from the hip here, thicking.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: These are long cult close friends.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: We are like their original media partner.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: If ever there was a time or a place to start leaking, did you hear this?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did you hear this?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like a let, like maybe it's not confirmed, maybe, but a lot of people enjoy a 16-ounce.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, could I interest you in a 12-ounce six-pack Mahoney?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Two flavors each.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Very much.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, this isn't gonna stop distribution, Carl, if we're breaking anything by any means.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably the chain's already rolling there on the conveyor belt.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: But that said, I'd be very interested in slamming a couple 12 ounces of those bad boys.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's how successful they've done in their HEB activation, which is the grocery store.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, we're gonna get to the Cubs.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I need to warm up a little bit, it's early, so I'm gonna talk about some low-risk shit that has some strategic implications to get my brain firing.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, these guys have done so well in HEB, which is basically the only grocery chain in Texas, which is where the strategy started because of the close and obvious Mexican cultural influences that exist throughout the state of Texas.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're making a Mexican-style soda and you want to figure out if it's good enough for the general population, you probably want to start with the authentic population first and see how well it goes.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, not only did it go well, the demand to have like the spread of flavors in one convenient package that can be more like readily handed out at parties, uh, was something that got pushed into them.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's how successful it's been.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you haven't checked it out, there's your two-minute Thirsty Be Carol ad.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to hear one lick of bitching about it because I'm about to light up these trade deadline news here, guys.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we are not talking about it without Thirsty Be Carol.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Go check it out on Amazon, ship to your front door.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Mahoney, we got four big trades.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: We got the Blue Jays for Gaussman, you know, we got Miami for Braxton Garrett, we got Ryan Zavirashan, the tennis player from the Angels for my Venezuelan son, and then obviously, you know, the big one with the Mets for two players.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna let you quarterback the direction of the conversation under the premise that I have so much to say about all this.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you got to move this along, or else this is gonna be the Titanic.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're going right into an iceberg sinking, my friend.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, tell me what Kevin Gossman brings.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know his all-star pedigree.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm hearing the veteran presence in the clubhouse, I'm hearing what he'll be able to do in the playoffs, but I want to hear it from you, Carl.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: What is he going to bring to this team?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: And how does he pitch in a Wrigley field setting?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, we got to start with Gossman because I think that's probably the most important.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Zuir Sean, maybe if he's as elite as he's been in the last couple weeks, but really the the number one thing we've talked about in the show that's holds back is starting rotation number one, having a guy that can go out pitch game one.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think Kevin Gossman's a two.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be my first reaction into the general opinion I have about this.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now, he's a very good two, and in the grand scheme of things, we have we have we have we have like if he's a two, boyd's a two.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it and if boyd's a two, and and say by miracle, Ben Brown comes back who can pitch like a one, but would be slotted as a three if he was healthy.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Shodi Imanaga is a four who can pitch like a three.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I like Kevin Gossman a lot.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Money, let me tell you this now that we got that bullshit out of the way.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's a huge, I think, I believe, allegedly, huge.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do I say huge or can I just say he's a stoner?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's uh he big, big, big time loves it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I interviewed him with Jake before.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: He was just lit to the moon.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked him in the green screen.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, have you been smoking?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, off day, baby.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: There he goes.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, coming from Toronto, he's probably used to it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit of a different pharmacy setting there, very, very much more controlled.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: But that said, Sunny side's directly across the street from Wrigley Field, so I think he's gonna feel very home here and you know, have any accessible gummies, CBD, anything to bring down that inflammation in the arm to get him ready for his next start.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm all for it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And the proximity where he's coming is gonna be perfect for him in our rotation.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I do agree, yes, a number two, we're we're kind of loaded with number twos right now.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So depth stacked on depth.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I got to remind people we talk about this team.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: We have the best defense in Major League Baseball, and it's actually like not close now that we're far enough in the long season, far enough along in the season to look at aggregate stats.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say, okay, well, now Kevin Gossman, who's going from like probably a bottom 10 infield to a top, the top defense in Major League Baseball by advanced metrics, that's obviously a huge bump, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like he's old enough, experienced enough, and he puts the ball in play a lot, such a low walk rate that he it's probably the first thing that came to his mind when he found out he was getting traded to Chicago is that like, oh, that defense is nasty.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that helps him a lot.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, can I tell you a little bit about his pitch mix?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, please.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear about his pitch mix.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So keep in mind when we talk about Kevin Gossman, the pitch mix here, uh, the background's always important.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love talking about backgrounds of players, particularly with pitchers, because pitchers have like much more um of a linear ego in baseball.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like position players, you go up and down, you get your shit rocked, you go on slumps.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you ask Pete Carl Armstrong, like there's eight weeks last year where he's probably living in a cave mentally, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: But like for pitchers, it's much more linear.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it you don't have these like drastic peaks in valleys, which is why I'm coming back to Gossman's background, fourth overall draft pick out of LSU, and was such a dominant prospect with all this stuff that like even at college when he was the number one at LSU as a freshman, and even in minor league baseball, like they tolerated the fact that he had this like weird OCD habit of eating powdered donuts before games and before innings and mid-game and stuff, where he'd be taking on like 2,000 extra calories.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: But like, that's normally obviously the stuff that gets weeded out, or if you're a fifth-round pick, or if you're just somebody who's in the organization, they never would let you do that shit.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it's Gossman, it's Kevin Gossman.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's on the Orioles, the Orioles are terrible at developing starting pitching.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, he's good.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Let the guy do his thing, and he got his fucking shit pounded early in his career.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: He was all over the place.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when you do that and you have a bad game, what do you say?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't eat the donuts at the right time, I didn't have the right kind of donuts.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: The donuts are this and that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now you create this like mental thing in your head where like you can't really get to the brass tactics of if you're good or bad or the mechanical influence, like all the all the stuff that matters because you're walking over, and I'm not pointing this out to shit on the guy.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying a lot of top-end pitchers go through this where they have some weird stuff that they're about, and they got weird, you know, tendencies or whatever, and they're too talented for their overseers and developers to influence them and to say, hey, you can't knock that fucking shit off.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be until Kevin Gossman's getting his dick kicked in with the Orioles, until he's like, I gotta change my stuff a little bit.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And therein lies what I would consider in active baseball right now one of the greatest career progression of all time in Kevin Gossman.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this leads to the mental aspect of why when I see this guy take the ball in October, I can directly point it back to when he gets into the big leagues and he has this like since he is this sensational journey to rock bottom to where he's awful and he can't figure out why he's awful.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Until long story short of this Mahoney, which is why I get to the pitch selection, what you're gonna see from this guy, he used to try everything curveball, slider, cutter, sweeper.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna try this.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: This doesn't work, this doesn't work.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason you do that is because you have fucking monster success through college and you blow through the minor leagues, then you get to the big leagues and you're like, wait a second, I'm not having this sex success.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe I got to try the two seam or more.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's something I'm not doing.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And what he did is he added and added and added and added until he got to the San Francisco Giants and they taught him about what's called seam-shifted wake movement, which is basically okay, which is basically a coefficient of how much your ball moves against the air.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in this conversation, the Giants effectively told Kevin Gossman, you throw six pitches in major league baseball.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Four of them are hardly good enough to be in the SEC on a Sunday afternoon.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Two of them are two of the best pitches in Major League Baseball.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're forcing fastball and you're splitter.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're scene-shifted wake movement coefficient in the air.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: The way they move in the air is so much better and different than anybody else throwing either of these two pitches.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what we recommend, Kevin.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Only throw these two pitches.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin goes, What are you talking about?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's the big leagues.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I go, we don't care.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're the Giants.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is the organization you can do shit like that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So then Gossman goes to the Giants, fucking stops throwing curveballs, sliders, all this stuff.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're years into that transformation.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when you see that dude take the mound, he's two pitch.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's not two pitch because it's cute or it's two pitch on purpose.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's two pitch.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: He's mentally groomed himself into a guy where it's like, and I've literally sat down and talked with him about this, where he said, if I throw a curveball in major league baseball, I'd have a hard time throwing that curveball in high school for a strike.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how am I?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's it's not even close to a major league pitch.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So why would I throw it in a major league game against a major league hitter?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense, Mahoney?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: It absolutely does, and there would be no reason why if you have that sentiment towards your curveball, should you ever be throwing it at the professional level?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he found something in a splitter that just dives on batters, and then that became his go-to mix.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Huge hands.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to tell that personal narrative so that people, when when you see Gossman take them out and stuff like again, understand this is a guy who was at the top, one of the top prospects, got handled horribly by the Orioles, who have never developed a prospect because they're horrible at it and they have terrible infrastructure and they're not good to their pitchers.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then he has to get kicked around in Cincinnati here, and then a little bit of this and that out.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not till you get into San Francisco when they're going, Hey, we're willing for you to be as weird as you want to be, buddy.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of where like he finds himself, which then allows him to be the guy that he is, which then he was a three-time All-Star.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Struck out over 200 players in 21, 22, 23.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: All this happened after he was with the Giants.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: He really transformed into a one.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what we have now is a 36-year-old, but he is coming off a World Series.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: He is going to be reinvigorated to pitch for the Cubs.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: His advanced statistics are fantastic.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And quite frankly, I love him.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I love him.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love the makeup.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact he's a stoner.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's going to help him fit into this clubhouse immediately.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what that clubhouse is.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody who had just you'd alluded to the mountaintop, went to a game seven last year in October.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's going to come in.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: He'll be calm when it's a 3-2 count in the NLDS.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: He can throw that split in the 3-2 count with the bases loaded.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of all the stuff that I said narratively about his background, what stuck out to you or like what jumps out?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Really, I think um, aside from the fact that he likes the devil's lettuce, is more so that he was willing to change throughout his career.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's been through all of those good, bad, and ugly scenarios, knows what works for him.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: From what I've seen, he's been one of the better pitchers, you know, in the last five years, with what have you, since I believe that he had gone to the Giants.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And just kind of off the cuff, what I'm taking with it is if a guy's going to be a splinter first with this defense behind you, like all day.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very, very happy with the trade.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very happy that he's in Chicago.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's coming from a bad Toronto team.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: You look at the ERA, don't love it, you know, but hey, this is a totally different atmosphere.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I'm all here for it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's gonna be great on the squad.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then last thing, just so I can tie his pitching strategy to like what the Cubs defense kind of changes for him mentally, is if you're pitching in Toronto and just say, obviously, not a great season coming off the World Series, and the team's struggling to the point where they're sellers.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you're on the mound here, Kevin Goss when you throw two pitches.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: One is a forcing fastball that looks like it's rising and is just explodes out of his hand, where the velocity grade on it is probably a solid 5% higher than what the true velocity is.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, like the the realized velocity from the hitter is always much faster.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the second thing about the splitter is that it obviously dives and falls off the plate.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when you're Kevin Gossman on the Toronto Blue Jays and you're throwing that splitter, you have the mentality to get more swing and miss.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't walk guys, he doesn't, he will he can throw the fastball for the strike.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: What the splitter does for him, though, is he can actually throw it more for a strike, not so much bury it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Where with the blue jays, you're constantly burying this pitch to get swing and miss and all this stuff.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that he has this defense behind him, and especially on a windy day when he can really establish his fastball up in the zone early for fly balls and shit, buddy.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna see a completely different pitcher than whatever you've experienced this year from the eye.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I would I would imagine the highest end you can get from a fourth quarter veteran at the trade deadline, which is one of the reasons why I like it so much, is we didn't give up anything.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we really, I mean, like you can make an argument Brett Bateman would be a valuable major league player, but we're the Cubs, we're talking about corner outfielders now.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: PCA's here for the next six years and he's gonna hit the middle of the owner.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: So now we can be much more creative in what we do in left field and right field, and so that's why if we give up outfield prospects, you know, I don't want to get too long in the tooth here, but just going back to the deep, you know, just going back to the defense, like Gossman with that defense behind him, now when it's you know 1-0, it's a way different mentality.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it's 1-1 and he's throwing the split, it's a different mentality because that contact is uh is such a higher percentage of being an out.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So Carl, that's gonna bring me next to another pitcher who's coming off of a broken fibula, and this is in Clay Holmes from the Mets.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Am I jumping the gun on Clay Holmes?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think you're jumping the gun at all.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would I mean, I'd like to keep it, you know, we should absolutely keep it moving.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um Clay Holmes is an interesting guy, you know.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you you tell me what what you want to talk about because if we do this one, we gotta combo Clay Holmes with Tyrone Taylor.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and we can start with Jefferson Rojas, which is who the Cubs gave up.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now that's the top prospect that we have given up in this trade and the duh throughout the deadline this year.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he was a lot of people would say top five prospects in the Cub system.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: He was the number two prospect.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um he had just cracked the top 100 like last year, I want to say, but only for one of the major ranking houses.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So he's like a fringe top 100 guy.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he's having a solid year.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's this is a lot, this is where I'm I don't want to disrespect maniacs that really value the young guys and want to see him have opportunities to grow.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: But he just doesn't have the power profile right now, even though with the 460 slut, just one home run in 2026 at double-A.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like to play in Major League Baseball, you have to be outstanding at something, at least for this Cubs roster, at least for how this Cubs roster is built over the next four years.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't see that happening with Rojas.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I see him more as like a depth piece.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I know he's a highly rated prospect within our organization, but I think the reason he's highly rated is consider a more neutral level of breaking into the big leagues, you know.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it will be hard for us at the big league level, like it was for Mo Baller, like it is for Kevin Alcantara, like it is for Matt Shaw, like it is for anybody that we bring up, and so just a little bit more comfortable, and he hasn't really done anything dynamically where I'd say, like, ah shit, we absolutely can't get rid of that guy.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now on the opposite end of that, you know, have you seen Clay Holmes pitch?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have do you have cognizant memories of uh like of of what his stuff looks like or anything?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Me, no, not at all.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing I've been read up on was that that he was kind of a cornerstone for the Mets rotation coming into the year and an injury had derailed that.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it's been a minute, but there have been flashes, particularly with him on the Yankees in the postseason, um, where he looks just downright unhittable.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I mean d absolutely downright unhittable.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: He has a clunker a couple years ago.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I wanna say that is the only so he he's pitched 20 innings in the postseason.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: He has one relief appearance with the Yankees where he pitched like a third of an inning and he got fucking shelled, gave up three earned.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in the other 19 whatever innings in the postseason, um he's he he hasn't given up a run.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's absolutely lights out.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's as a reliever, they converted into a starter.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um he is the type of guy who can get like a a thousand swings and misses.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is that we're talking about is that he is coming off a rehab start.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say he pitched the other day through 73 pitches, five and a third innings.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: So like we're trading for him, knowing that we're going to activate him in August to the Major League roster.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: He hasn't pitched since May, though.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: But when he does pitch, and assuming this his leg is healthy, he would be better than Matt Boyd.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Significantly better than Matt Boyd.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like he does if his stuff is sharp coming off a broken leg, he probably has much better stuff than Kevin Gossman.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: His swing and miss stuff is elite and unbelievable and just freaking nasty.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, again, when we talk Monday morning cuff show about trade deadline, we've said forever this is with respect to us winning the World Series like this year, going to the World Series this year.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't really, you know, Clay Clay Holmes is a free agent at the end of the year.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: He's got motivation to do a couple things.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Prove he's healthy, prove his stuff is sharp, prove that he can be an effective pitcher down the stretch when your team needs the most.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Those are three things the Cubs are going to ask him to do.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I could ask for a better buffet of fucking things on the checklist Clay Holmes would want that he wasn't getting from the Mets.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you were Clay Holmes and you were rehabbing your leg on the Mets and you're looking there going into a contract year, you know, I want to get paid, I want to get paid in 2027.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Motivation's there.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what do you think of that, Mahoney?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is that fair enough?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a fair place to start?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you want me to sit here and talk about a sweeper?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you think?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's fair.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think really what I take from that is Clay Holmes probably has the highest upside of the players that we've acquired.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And with his you know contract situation, he's gonna be somebody that's gonna want to deliver, show the league that hey, my leg's fine, you have nothing to worry about.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that the you know the fire will be there, and I'm excited to see him take them out for the Cubs.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could comfortably say that in Clay Holmes' career since he got into the big leagues, let's just say, let's just say post-COVID.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Post-COVID, Clay Holmes is a top five pitcher in the world at getting ground balls.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a great thing.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: But that defense, I'll take it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's fantastic makeup.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's the type of guy that we're gonna want on this team.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Regardless if you're right-handed or left-handed, there's about a 50% chance he's gonna throw you a sinker.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Of those sinkers, about nine out of ten sinkers that he throws are gonna be uh elite grade 70 sinkers.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So like as good as a sinker can get before you start talking about being a Hall of Famer.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what's really interesting about Clay Holmes is when you throw a sinker, it moves to your arm side as a pitcher.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm a righty and I throw a sinker, the ball's gonna move to the right.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's called arm side.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then when a ball moves to the left, that's called glove side as a right-handed pitch.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So like I'm a righty, I throw a slider at the glove side pitch.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm a righty and I throw a sinker, that's an arm side.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Change up historically, arm side, however, Kyle Hendricks, kick change introduced, changeup that goes glove side, which is very unique.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I can go back and forth on this.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Cutter's glove side, curve is glove side.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of how you measure on that access.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're righty and it's going left, it's glove.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you're righty and it's going right, it's arm.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so typically in this equation, Tim, your shoulder naturally allows you to be good at one, almost never two.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: So Greg Maddox is a good example of a guy who could go arm side, glove side, drop it on the plate, pitch at the top of the zone, but his command of arm and glove side, where they're both world class, is what puts Greg Maddox with that change in the pantheon of best pitchers of all time.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to Clay Holmes, what makes him really unique is that he fucking works arm side 50% of the time.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then his second, his second best pitch and most used pitch is a glove side sweeper at about 20%.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then on to round everything out, that's going to bring us up to a nice healthy almost 90% here.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to throw that change up 15 to 18% of the time, which is exactly what you'd if you asked Roger Clemens to draw a scotting report how many change ups do you want to throw?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: He'd say 15 to 18% of the time.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm throwing a changeup.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So just the on paper stuff with Clay Holmes is great.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: But that's act two of the story.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Act one of the story is coming off the broken leg.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to hit free agency hard?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cubs seem to be a great place to go into free agency.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, we could get the best from him.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: If we do get the best from him, then the playoff rotation is either Gossman or Clay Holmes into Boyd, which is really sexy if we hit on Gossman and Holmes the way I've talked about him.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: And in playoff baseball, you want elite ground ball guys, you know, before his broken leg, 239 ERA, had nine starts.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: He could be a double play machine for us.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I I love the type of pitchers that they went after and really acquired in the first two that we've addressed.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, what sucks about giving up Jefferson Rojas, though, is like he could take steroids, he could get huge, he could he could pop 20 times in the big leagues.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: He he is hitting 270 as a is a weaker guy.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: He does have a 460 slug, despite no home runs.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like he obviously can run and be dynamic and can stretch it into a double.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what I don't want maniacs to do is three or four years from now, if Rojas is a starting shortstop for the Mets and he's sitting second and he's a good player, you can't really get mad about the fact because Danzby Swanson's here for a long time.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Nico Horner's extended, Alex Bregman's not going anywhere.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Matt Shaw's a tremendous player, and I just named four guys that would play a position Jefferson Rojas could get groomed into where he's so far behind on the depth chart.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: We don't even have the time for him to figure out the reps at the major league level.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we gotta go.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta go, we gotta go, we gotta it's a time it's absolutely time is now.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: I could see you know, baller strike trading Jefferson Rojas for a pitcher rehab and a broken leg could backfire.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's one of the things this is a trade.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: If we're talking about this trade specifically, we'll get into Tyrone here in a minute, but that's the type of thing where you could be like, oh, that didn't really work at all.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's the easiest one that could fall apart with a higher upside for this year.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the guy's making rehab starts, it sucks.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not even like he had two with the Mets and he came back and we kind of liked what we saw.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's like, I don't know what we're gonna do with him, how we're gonna deploy him.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: We could use him in the bullpen, you know.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would prefer if you're gonna make that trade and give up our number two prospect, though, and kind of shut the door on kind of, but absolutely and physically than like, yeah, I would assume I would assume Clay Holmes, you know, they want him to start.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the nice thing is we have this great position in the wild card here.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: We are gonna be competitive down the stretch.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: It will take the Brewers to have kind of some, you know, they they do have to stumble a little bit for us to like even start talking about that division, but we do have a really good lead on hosting wildcard.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So all that matters because like when we trade for a guy like Clay Holmes, we're not sitting here with a gun to Clay Holmes hat and saying, go take the mound right now, Clay.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, Clay.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: What we're doing is we're saying, How do you feel?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you good enough?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you healthy enough?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Can we get him three innings?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can take your time and be strategic.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because the really most important thing is, can we get Clay Holmes to be a starter confidently in one of those wild card games?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And do we have the guy that I think we have?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: If we do, then it's a great trade.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: If not, then yeah, absolutely.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can't believe we gave up our number two prospect for a guy with a broken fucking leg.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's talk about the other piece of that trade.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Tyrone Taylor um hits lefties uh elite from what I've seen.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: 900 OBP.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Carl, what do we know about this guy?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: How is he gonna fit in the lineup?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever it is.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even looking at notes right now.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're you're shooting from the hip.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're shooting from that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: He does have a 989 OPS plus against lefties.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: He has a 589 slug, a 400 on basement.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Every time, and if yeah, no, it's a he's on base nine, but he hits 311 against lefties.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the Mets aren't that good, so he's got a lot of A-Bs this year against righties.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: The the question is obviously then against a lefty now, does that mean we're sitting hap?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if we have Tyrone Taylor who can go play left field, not not especially at Wrigley, this is where it kind of freaks me out a little bit.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, but Tyrone Taylor's an option to smash left-handed pitching, where Ian has looked has not looked great, and by evidence of the fact of us DFAing Jameis and Taon, and in process, Craig's saying there's never a chance, we just can't see an opportunity for him to pitch for us again.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, that's why he can't play.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they did that to Jameis and Taon, who everyone considers the best teammate in baseball.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Ian, Ian, if they're DFAing Jameis and Teon, uh, and saying he's he's they'll never, he'll never have a chance to pitch for this team to down the stretch for this organization, then I would venture to guess the Cubs are gonna be much more are thus comfortable telling Ian Hap down the stretch, hey, you're gonna sit against a lefty today.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because Tyron Taylor hits him better and he can go play left field.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And now if you're telling me we have a guy who smashes lefties in left field with Suzuki and right, you know, the only thing I wish we got was somebody who could just platoon at first base against the lefty.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I say that, Michael Bush line drive, home run off Rubesky last night in the left center, so maybe I should just shut the fuck up.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And hey, if we need to give Bush a break, maybe Matt Shaw could come and get a spell first because he's still on the squad.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I and I love Schauzer.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely do.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot I cannot wait to see him get back and move him.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have to DFA and move a lot of people around with some of these moves here.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: But a Tyrone Taylor is gonna be a great is is gonna give us some great games.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, is he a huge piece?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it is a missing puzzle piece against left-handed pitching, and then like say we roll into the playoffs.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I would much rather have Tyrone Taylor hitting against Tarek Scuble in an NLCS game than Ian Hap right-handed, no offense.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And when they bring in the right, Ian Hap can come in and hit left.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Am I being mean?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm being fair.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, no, I'm fair at this juncture.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Give me your grade on that trade after everything I said, grade the trade based on what I said.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that's a B minus trade, just because of this, there's some components to the unknown.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an instant game changer in Tyrone Taylor.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna say B minus based on the upside.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: If Clay Holmes wins, if we win a Clay Holmes playoff start in the wild card, it becomes a B plus A minus trade.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: If we win two of them, it's an A minus.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: We win three Clay Holmes starts in the playoffs, it's an A trade.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's I think that's where we grade it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't Clay Holmes can do shit here in August.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Bring him back in.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in no rush to see him.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I when I want to see him, I want to see him in no way I can criticize him.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to see him and go, well, he's coming back.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see him when he's ready.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I want to see him at 100% not working on anything down the stretch.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get let's get let's let what else you got, Mahoney.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I this is the one part of the show I didn't really want to come to, but your boy uh Moises Balesteros is now on the Los Angeles Angels for the Ryan Zephyrjon or Zephyrhan, whatever it is.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we're calling him Zaverjan.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just I don't know why, but that's that sounds cool.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we got Severjan coming in.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, from what I've been reading, is a pretty elite reliever, the controllable right-handed strikeout arm.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he has a pretty good mix of pitches, walks guys a little bit too much.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Other than that, it's somebody that we need and can put into some high-leverage situations, and then I think you just kind of cross your fingers, Carl, and hope that the change in scenery continues to to motivate him and to perform like he has been.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's nasty, he's huge.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's huge.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Pete, I I this is where I screw up, dude.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't spend enough time on Twitter now.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta be back, I have to be in Twitter to make these jokes.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I tweeted out this is very Sean Gray.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I gave it a D minus.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: People were I saw that.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: That was funny though.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because everyone is saying they're like, This is the best trade, this is the best guy that we got out of the trade that like absolutely strike, and um, then you just go D minus, and I'm like, that's I mean Moises is gone.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, dude, it's because we got rid of my now.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is I'll be personal.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be personal and I'll be analytical.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Moises Bastaros uh like is one of my favorite hitters, and I love hitters.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love hitters, hitters are so natural, dude.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can't teach a shit.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like what Moises does, you can't teach.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: What Rizzo did, you can't teach.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know what Brian, what Chris Bryant had, it's just like you're born, and it's a beautiful thing about baseball that most, if not all, those guys are just born incredible.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Massey, close friend of mine, royal second baseman.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Buddy, you knew when he was 12 years old he was going to the big leagues.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's born, it's in your blood.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and like Moises had that in space more than like the guys that come up and you see rookies, you go, that them motherfucker really has this special head on his shoulders to hit in the big leagues.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not saying he's a great guy, I'm not saying he's a good catcher, I'm not saying any of the shit good baser.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying from the perspective of pick up a bat, go into a big league batter's box, act like you belong, have an approach, and then be good enough to turn shit around.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked at that kid, 22, 23 years old, and I thought to myself, give that dude a thousand played appearances in the big league, and you can just basically pencil him in as a 300, 400, you know, 480 guy in the big leagues for the next however long he's healthy.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: But we can't play him, we couldn't play him.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: We can't we can't DH him every day because he can't hit lefty.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's inexperienced, you know, he can't catch, he can't run, can't play outfield.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's nowhere, there's literally nowhere for him on a field.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: So he has to go play on a bad team that doesn't want to spend money on a DH.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's it blows because I think he's gonna be an awesome hitter.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just with bad timing, like really bad timing.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not gonna go and make this comparison, but these are the things that happen.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: David Ortiz is getting any plan playing time with the Red Sox, you know, or he does, and he does he gets maneuvered around, or I shouldn't say with the twins.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, pop big poppy, right?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Big big poppy.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, in and what did the twins not have that entire run when they're just constantly winning AL Centrals?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: They get to the playoffs, they lose.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they don't have thunder in the middle of the order.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Joe Maurer's a good hitter, doesn't have thunder.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it's just Bourneau.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, could you imagine if they figured out a way to get to keep Big Poppy in that lineup?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so like I'm not going as far as Moises hasn't played any, he's not even showing a flash of that.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not putting him in that same conversation.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm saying is there are parallels across the baseball history where you look at a guy and you go, you should have given him more playing time, you should have bought into who he was.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't have that luxury because we got a fire under our ass.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we got to play our best nine, and we got to go try and win a World Series.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's where we're at.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of years ago, Moises probably gets to play a ton, etc.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where the D minus comes in.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I will miss him, but I will enjoy the fact he should get four plate appearances a day with the Angels.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just can't see why you would trade for him to not play him.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it could be a beautiful thing for him.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: A sick part of me will always enjoy watching him play.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot say enough good things about how I feel as a viewer, as a baseball fan, when that dude digs into the box and all I've done, all I do is watch his shit.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, yes.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now you want to talk to Virashan because that dude rocks.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I do, and I could see him and a healthy Palencia coming back would be a very, very good one-two combo for us.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's got more he's got one of the biggest, he's got one of the biggest strikeout rates in baseball.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Mizerowski's number one at 40% for all qualified pitchers, and then for all qualified starters, number two's like 30%.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the drop between starters, obviously, that's why I say Ms.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: is like the like one of the best you're ever gonna see.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's at 40% K rate.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Your next starting qualified is 30%.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: So just give you if I if I said I was between 30 and 40, then when you say I'm a pretty good pitcher, I think you'd be all right, yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so Zaverishon's at 34.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So like elite strikeout.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're a reliever, you're brought into strikeout, guys.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: So relievers are always gonna have a higher strikeout rate than starters.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's just the way it works.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: But he's on the high, high end of reliever strikeout rate, which is exactly what this organization lacks in spades, much less at Bigley.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have anybody striking out anybody anywhere, not in Peoria, not in South Bend, you name it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's striking anybody out in this org.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is the walks, which is like we're gonna be putting this guy, you think ain't like here, high leverage, eighth inning for the angels.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck the angels, fuck right.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Here's high leverage.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Dodgers are in town, we're trying to.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: 30,000 screaming, buddy.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's leverage, knowing you're gonna be a guy relied on in October when recently, you know, you had a nice little routine in Southern California that involved getting a blowjob in a morning, stopping for some bagel and locks, you know, then obviously heading over to the ballpark, do some mobility work, stretch, cup of coffee, you know, whatever your routine is, and then you get to go pitch in front of 20,000 that are chanting, sell the fucking team who can't pronounce your last name, right?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it could be a one-nothing game, and you're gonna tell me that's leverage.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're gonna come here and play for the Cubs.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, buddy, you can't go get that cup of coffee, you can't go sit and have a bagel in locks.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: You you you're gonna be people are gonna be up your ass.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: You blow a game, people are gonna be up your ass.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, why does this matter, Mahoney?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because mentally, the biggest challenge this guy has is not issuing walks, and to issue to get into a state, you have to be in the flow state, you have to be locked in, you have to be confident.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this could be a fra more fragile than people are giving.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're just going, look at his strikeout rate, look at his stuff.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going, yeah, he's doing that on West Coast time in front of nobody for a fan base nobody gives a shit about.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's 40 games out of the playoff race, have been born sellers since April 15th.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure he's been awesome.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can also guarantee you that at no point did he take the mound this season and go, this is a big one, can't blow this one, and now we're gonna put him in that exact environment where you're the savior guy to bridge the gap to Palencia.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's a professional, he should be able to handle this responsibly.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: But am I introducing enough reasons here why I would say look outside the strike zone and be a little bit more locked in and conservative about instead of you just sitting here going, we got the guy, he should be awesome.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just don't don't be surprised, you know, if you see three one counts.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be surprised if you see a couple bad 2-0 counts to start an inning.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just the adrenaline, all that shit.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: So he's gonna have to adjust quickly.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, he's a pro, he's 28, he's not a big draft prospect.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: He should have the head on his shoulders, and he's got elite stuff, big motherfucker.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like just strike, just striking it out.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we lose Mo Baller, but we do get a guy, and when you said controllable, you're talking about he's gonna be here this year at 27.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: 2030, I think.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Limited service time.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: We got a guy who throws 98 with limited service time.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's a that's a very good, that's a very good trade.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Again, going back though, a couple years from now when you're seeing Weiss's Biastero string along seasons with 130 OPS pluses.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, just remember we had Zavirishan for the 2026 World Series run.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's that that's how I'm looking at.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you have to say we bolstered the bullpen, we layered some depth on our pitching staff.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I I really like I like the Ryan Zaverishon move, but it was one of those things like you see the chart and it's like all red.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, hell yeah.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I noticed the walk thing, and relievers who walk guys scare the shit out of me.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: It just does, dude.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: If that's when you're clenching your butt cheeks in the late innings, and it's gonna be when it counts the most for us, folks.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: So saddle up.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: I hope it's gonna work out well.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just as like a comparison, like like he walks twice as many people as Kevin Gallsman.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he what he walks it's a lot of people, it's a lot of people, and it is how you lose close games.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the problem with walking guys then is it just changes the way you feel when you're on the mound about to execute the next pitch.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because say you walk a guy, then the next guy gets a cheap infield hit.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now I got runners on first and second.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now what are you doing?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hunting a double play, you hunting a strikeout, your narrow, your your area of focus to the target gets smaller, your heart rate goes a little faster.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a one-run game.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason you're in this position is because you blocked the guy to start the inning.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now they played a double double play in field depth.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: You broke a bet, the ball landed over your head.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: But since the shortstop's playing deep up the middle, now you see what I'm saying?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: All right, now this is where that stuff can speed your head up, and you break a little bit from your mechanic.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can overthrow because you want to get a strikeout.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: When anytime you break from the mechanic, you introduce the risk of laying shit flat.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Spinning shit, spinning sweeper, a forcing fastball comes out flat.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when the stuff comes out flat, because you as a pitcher are sped up, no different than a quarterback who's feeling the pass rush and trying to fit a fucking ball in a window that doesn't exist.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's when the mistakes happen and the damage racks up.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, again, I'm going to go back, elite strikeout rate.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have that.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we're rolling, baby.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like Zavarishan, everything just be positive.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I'm just introducing this walk rate and stuff about the intensity in the atmosphere is like, don't just assume the now it can happen.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if he is a true professional, it will happen.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: But he's got limited service time.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're not bringing in a guy who has any experience at all.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: He is just finding himself and finding his stuff.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now we have to take that position and apply it to much heightened circumstances under a microscope from one of the most lunatic fan bases in the world.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think he can do it, but those would be the risk areas for him.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's an A trade, it's a home run trade.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Moises, you get to play now.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody, everybody's better off.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense, Mahoney?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's keep this rolling and wrap this baby up.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: It makes sense, baby.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm looking forward to seeing Zephyr John and the Cubs uniform delivering.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then last but certainly not least, we had had Detmers on the team for maybe a blip there.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: There was some miscommunication out on Twitter.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next thing I see, we get some guy named Braxton Garrett, who I really don't know anything about.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: He was the the name that crossed the list that I was like, okay, I know nothing about this dude.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Carl, do you?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so what Braxton Garrett is very interesting because um he was a big draft pick.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I could just start here.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's not very good this season, hasn't been good this season.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um he's in a weird, like he's just in a weird point in his career.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the easiest way I could go back would be like it's kind of like Jake.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like Jake in the similarity of like he was a first-round draft pick.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Jake would have been a first-round draft pick, but he blew his shoulder out, but he still got first round lines.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you're talking about big prospects.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right, then you're talking about a guy relatively gets to the big leagues pretty fast.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's a high school draft pick, first round seventh overall, gets the big leagues during COVID.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the Marlins, the whole time, you're a starter, you're a starter, you're a starter.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: He made 30 starts one year, 366 ERA was effective in 23, was a guy you're thinking, like, this is a guy we're gonna build around, misses all of 25, comes back, just not just not really that good in his first couple starts.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um the reason I'm gonna compare him to Jake is because like every time you watch this dude pitch, you're just like, holy shit, this stuff is off the charts.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: But like going back to Clay Holmes, he hasn't pitched uh he hasn't pitched since May.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: So like I I'm I'm looking at this trade like specifically, you know, like a guy who's had two Tommy John surgeries.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we're obviously we're obviously trading for him to see maybe he can pitch out of the bullpen, I would guess, down the stretch, if he's healthy, although he's never really pitched as a reliever.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's never really found himself.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have like I would say Braxton Braxton, I would say Braxton Garrett for the 2026 season, we are putting a chip on the roulette table, and we are putting it on one number, and it is a 33 to five or whatever, 35 to 1 payout.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he was option to triple A Iowa right off the bat, too.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: So he's gonna be getting reps in there.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think there this is a kind of let's see if he could contribute as another depth piece, you know, and get some work in in Iowa to see how healthy he can be.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one thing.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of an interesting move.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I can't see this guy being in any part of our rotation at all.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't it's it's kind of all right, so it's kind of it's kind of frustrating because we never gave Jonathan Law a chance to be right-handed here against left-handed pitching, which is our 13th overall prospect, and the guy we gave up for Braxton Garrett.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: And Jayce Beck has been sensational for the Cubs this year, but he came out of nowhere.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's like I wish we got a chance to see either of these guys in a Cubs uniform.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then it goes back to if you see him in a Cubs uniform and they fail, you know, did your trade value go down like this?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Jayce Beck guy is a lot of mystery to him in the prospect space right now because his strikeout rate is through the roof since they moved him from the bullpen to a starter, and they were like, we just go start, and now he's finding himself and he's elite and he's shut down.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Jonathan Long is hit every any day he's come into the minor leagues, he's been our hottest hitter the last month and a half of the season across any minor league level, but we just have not found a way to get him any meaningful time in the big league.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just saying instead of even trying with these guys, we're gonna take this flyer on Braxton Garrett.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I'm looking at Braxton Garrett, it's like, yeah, sure, sure, this year.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: To me, this is Miami's cleaning house at the trade deadline.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're taking a flyer on Braxton Garrett, can get into Tommy Hotovy's pitch lab.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and like the Braxton Garrett conversation is gonna happen in the offseason.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's gonna happen at spring trade where we really sit down and talk about who this guy is, but like that's why I'm saying it's roulette.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: If we talk about him this year in any meaningful capacity towards our playoff odds and playoff run, then it's because the roulette number hit.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's just like you know, solid stuff, and maybe we can reclaim him, which is kind of where we were at with Jake because we had we had traded Scott Feldman for Jake uh in Pedro Strope.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: And Pedro Strope was the much more coveted, you know, immediate, like, all right, here's a solid bullpen guy, you know, and then this Jake guy's up and down in the shoulders, this and that, and he's here and there.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna see if we can turn him into something, and obviously he wins game two and six of the World Series, rookie that you're you know, Cy Young and fifth, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's where Braxton Garrett kind of slides into this.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is how how do we do talking trades?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: You think?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think we did great.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there was plenty of movement this year from Jed that that actually, you know, I have some faith in the front office.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, there wasn't a huge splash, but like I said earlier, layering with a lot of depth at it.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget David Peterson.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: That move was made earlier in the year.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he just beat the Yankees on Saturday.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that we've made our team better.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if we really gained a ton of ground on the Dodgers because they did get that guy from the Detroit Tigers who started against us tomorrow.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: Other than that, though, I think we're gonna be a more competitive baseball team than we were last week at this time.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited about it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited to see these guys throwing the pinstripes and let's get rolling, baby.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't agree more.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the last closing thing I have is just go back to last night's game, down three-nothing.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Robleski's been good this year for the Dodgers, pitched to a sub-three ARA.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, is he their game one, two, three starter?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, is he good?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they're the Dodgers.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: And last time I checked, Shohei O'Tani was still leading off, and they had a three-nothing lead at Wrigley Field, and that's all you got to say about this team.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: 10-5, smashed them, blew the fucking doors off.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Matt Boyd coming off the coming off the mound in a seventh inning after giving up five earn to a rousing standing ovation.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Gives me the chills thinking about it.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was awesome, dude.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Team's good enough, Mahoney.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Team is good enough.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Dowsman's good enough.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: If Clay Holmes is healthy and we can get the version of Clay Holmes that is available going into his free agent year, we're rolling.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: Tyron Taylor gives us a huge option against left-handed pitching when we need it.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're gonna start to see Craig flex that to give us a better nine against left-handed pitching.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think Ryan Zavarishan can immediately upgrade and bridge a gap at the end of the bullpen now.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when you bring back Palencia, we should have all the gas and fire at the end of the bullpen that we've been sitting around going, we don't have that, we don't have it.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Boom.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Here's two guys that throw 98-100 with filthy fucking stuff, boom, down your throat.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, like that, all that shit hits, all that shit rocks.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a world we live in where two years from now, Braxton Garrett is an all-star, has reclaimed himself, and all we had to do is give up to you know, two guys that didn't have a career in the big leagues, anyways.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, as far as I'm concerned, trade deadline BB plus.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: I still wish we had that ace I could lock in on that you talk about is gonna be pitching at us.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: But this is the path we're going down.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Cubs fan.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fucking signed up, buddy.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Lineup's good enough, starting nine's good enough, benches good enough, managers good enough, crowds good enough.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, bullpen, we're getting there.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Starting pitching wants it.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sign me up.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go win a World Series.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it, buddy.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be back Friday, probably solo show deep here, just to flush some stuff out from the week.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just want to thank everybody for tuning in.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you learned anything in today's show, you can do one of two things, preferably both.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Leave a review on whatever platform you listen to.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's only available on Spotify and Apple.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: And go to Thirsty Vacero, go to Amazon, get yourself a vigilante pack.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: So next time me and Mahoney do a three-minute ad read, you know where that passion comes from.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mahoney, closing thoughts.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just go get it, Carl.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: We got the Dodgers tonight, Dodgers tomorrow, and like let's keep this bird in the air.