Latest / The Curve / How Much Is “Enough”, with Simran Kaur.

Transcript

How Much Is “Enough”, with Simran Kaur. · The Curve

• 0:00
  who you are is not tied to how much you have in your bank account. It's always easier to say that
• 0:04
  when you have money. So much of who we are and how we interact with money really does come from
• 0:09
  how we grew up. It's not quite survivor's guilt but it feels a little bit like survivor's guilt
• 0:13
  that like my dad was one of the lucky ones that was able to leave. There is a certain amount
• 0:18
  I want to have invested that I haven't reached yet and I know that if I get to that point
• 0:23
  there is nothing that I could do that would put me in a bad financial place like I will always
• 0:31
  be okay. The idea of defining what enough looks like. I don't want to be living unless
• 0:37
  hamps your wheel of always needing wanting more. Where is a good place to start to try and figure
• 0:42
  out what that number is for somebody? The quickest way is you just choose a number you're like
• 0:46
  it would be nice to live off any kind of knowledge you just without working and you just times that
• 0:52
  by the number 25 and that's how much you need in investable assets. You're not even 30 and now
• 0:58
  you have over a million. What is that made up of? This is such a good question.
• 1:06
  Guys we have investing and podcast royalty in the room. I'm so excited to have you hear some.
• 1:13
  We've like we've met once or twice in person but kind of been co-building quite similar
• 1:18
  businesses for a long time and I have just been in awe the entire time. What you've built with
• 1:24
  friends that invest quite incredible. I mean there's not that many creators globally so to have
• 1:30
  other people that are just doing amazing things and are from New Zealand and have gone like completely
• 1:35
  global like it's just it's yeah it's very exciting so I'm stoked to have you here. For anyone who
• 1:40
  either doesn't know what friends that investes which I highly highly doubt or hasn't listened to a
• 1:46
  podcast can we start with some quite rudimentary get to know questions because I'd love to know
• 1:53
  like beyond friends that invest which we will get to in a second but how would you describe
• 1:58
  yourself to someone that even if you don't have to attach this to business it could just be you
• 2:03
  as a person. What would some of the headlines be? What are like three words that describe you?
• 2:08
  I mean you can go for more than three words. Well firstly thank you for having me on. This has
• 2:14
  been a long time coming. How would I describe myself? I mean I feel like I think I know what I
• 2:24
  am like but then it's like how do I how am I actually perceived and how do I come across these
• 2:29
  might be two different things but I'd like to think kind of a funny girl. I like to think I'm
• 2:35
  you know I've got a lot of grit and hard work and I like to think I'm just like always learning
• 2:40
  always trying new things and just I get really bored easily so I'm always trying to just not
• 2:45
  sit still. That's a really good kind of thread into what I wanted to ask you up because you started
• 2:52
  in a really traditional career path you know you went to be an optometrist. I mean I'm assuming
• 2:58
  that's a nine to five. I don't know what hours optometry is but you know you sort of quickly left
• 3:03
  that and realised that actually you wanted to be in business and starting something of your own.
• 3:08
  Was that oh god I'm bored immediately or was there a draw to business from a different angle?
• 3:14
  I'm growing up like hey grew up in Auckland New Zealand and my journey into business was I guess
• 3:21
  I just grew up looking at business in a negative light because my parents went business owners
• 3:25
  like my mum was a teacher my dad was an engineer like very nine to five jobs and the one business owner
• 3:31
  family friend we had like a um a nuncle he was always so stressed and sad and just like really
• 3:39
  serious all the time and I was like oh my business doesn't seem very fun poor uncle John
• 3:45
  just like you know he had beautiful house but like he just was not in a good mood anytime we were
• 3:50
  over and so I like I want to say I can't relate but I don't say that I'm like I wonder if I
• 3:58
  am that auntie so actually I'm gone pee all the time people come up and they're like what's up
• 4:05
  not enjoying business and so um that was my introduction to business so I didn't
• 4:11
  initially be like I'm gonna be a business owner and then it was more in 2015 to 2016 so over a
• 4:17
  decade ago now where I was in university and I started like Instagram was starting to pop off
• 4:23
  snapchat was new and I was like oh I snapchat I remember telling my friends I was like you guys
• 4:28
  need to download this app this is going to be really fun only I had the ability to invest in snapchat
• 4:34
  but they're doing so badly now yeah what are you saying it's it would have been a good investment
• 4:39
  like pre IPO oh yeah yeah yeah okay okay okay you're right but you're back back then I started I was
• 4:46
  like using social media a lot and I was like I use this as a consumer I'm I'm really enjoying
• 4:51
  this what if I start businesses from it and so I built this company called the Indian Feminist
• 4:55
  I didn't know what it was at the time but my friend was like Sam you run a social enterprise
• 4:59
  and I was like what's a social enterprise it's just like you've you've started a company
• 5:03
  that is a pro a company that makes profit but it also does social good and it creates change
• 5:08
  in the world because the idea behind it was I wanted to create a media brand where I could talk
• 5:14
  about the issues there a lot of South Asian woman face that lived you know in the diaspora so
• 5:19
  lived in the West things like Darius and arranged marriages and preference for a boy rather than a
• 5:25
  daughter was still prevalent but not like as exposed and it was still happening behind closed doors
• 5:31
  and like households amongst my friends and my relatives and I was like this needs to be talked about
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  and as I learned to grow the account I was like oh this is really interesting and we had like
• 5:42
  really cool people follow it that I had like looked up to like celebrities and I was like oh this
• 5:47
  is like a thing and off the back of that I then started doing we weren't really big on brand deals
• 5:53
  because I didn't really understand that back then it was a different landscape but I would like
• 5:57
  make merch I love designing so I'd make like funny slogans and t-shirts and like tops and mugs
• 6:04
  and tote bags and that was my very first business and so studying up geometry on the side I think
• 6:10
  I was always interested in social enterprise I just didn't know it was I just thought oh I've done
• 6:16
  while this year what a lucky year it'll probably not happen next year and I never took business
• 6:21
  seriously and so what was the point in which you discovered investing I started investing when I
• 6:27
  was 16 but I really didn't take it seriously it was like going sorry did you say 16 we all have
• 6:34
  technically if we opened up a retirement fund I don't think I did though I think yeah I mean I
• 6:39
  think I had my retirement fund and then I paused all contributions because I didn't know what
• 6:45
  it was for way too long okay but did you know at the time what it was because I think a lot of us
• 6:50
  opened those accounts I had no idea that was even investing I started and I so back then in New
• 6:56
  Zealand you if you opened a retirement fund at 16 you'd get a $3,000 and my parents were like
• 7:03
  we're walking straight to the bank well if you come trot alongside and I still remember that
• 7:09
  meeting I still remember the guy I remember he looks like I remember he explained to me he was like
• 7:13
  we're going to put you in a fund that when you're young it's going to be quite a growth portfolio
• 7:19
  and then as you get older you'll need you'll have less need for risk so we'll put you into a balance
• 7:24
  and then near the end of your like working years you'll be in like maybe more like a cash fund or
• 7:28
  a conservative fund it's amazing you had that explained I didn't get it honestly I mean honestly
• 7:35
  the amount of times my dad's like LLP blah blah blah I'm like well I've actually been learning
• 7:40
  about money now for five years and I still do not understand the thing you're saying
• 7:44
  exactly I get it and so that was my first experience and I just put that in a I don't understand
• 7:51
  that box and I did not touch it and I was just like I'll put money in but I don't really know what's
• 7:55
  going on and then the second time I got introduced to investing or the second time I was like
• 8:00
  exposed to it again like directly was at university my friend goes hey my friend he's paying off his
• 8:07
  medical school student loan by investing and I was like oh what nice room like where I was we
• 8:14
  were waiting outside to go into like a bio-silence lecture and I was like how did he learn my friend
• 8:20
  was like his dad works in finance and I was like well my dad's a software engineer so I guess
• 8:25
  I'll never learn all right that's so interesting you know you said you know you've always had a
• 8:30
  natural inclination to learn and be curious and you get what it wasn't with that initially I just
• 8:35
  thought money was outside of my scope I was like I can I love learning I love reading but I can
• 8:41
  only learn kind of like segment yourself you like I can only learn about these things yeah and so
• 8:46
  I studied for five years in my degree and I took a finance paper um our university makes us to
• 8:53
  papers that are electives like outside of what you're meant to learn so I did an advertising paper
• 8:59
  and I did a finance paper because I thought I was going to open up the auto-metry clinic and I was
• 9:04
  like I should learn finance and I should learn so it was quite amazing that both of those things
• 9:09
  probably were very useful that were very like I mean marketing finance it's very on brand that's
• 9:15
  what I do now so that was that was when I learned and I was like okay and then I did another paper
• 9:23
  on financial markets through university paper and I was like oh the stuff is actually really really
• 9:30
  easy and I'm really angry at myself that I thought I could not understand what a like
• 9:36
  supply and demand graph meant and I realized despite being a lifelong learner I was actually
• 9:41
  holding myself back and I was angry I was like the stuff is so easy and so when I learned something
• 9:46
  that can make my life better I'm like hey friends and family are we are we all doing this but even
• 9:52
  then it was still something like I kept myself I didn't feel like it's so weird to talk about money
• 9:58
  especially back then 2016 2017 and then it wasn't until 2020 when I sat down with one of my best
• 10:05
  friends Sonja and I was like hey I have this goal I want to buy my first house and she was like oh my
• 10:12
  god like I also have a goal and I've saved like X amount and I we had been best friends at this point
• 10:18
  for like 20 something years and I was like since when did you have that much money
• 10:23
  and she was like I've just been working like she didn't go to university she went straight
• 10:26
  into work this was I've just been working and I've been saving and we realized that despite being
• 10:30
  best friends for so long we never spoke about money and so that was when I was like okay I had started
• 10:36
  this podcast I started this Instagram account a couple of months ago called and now called
• 10:41
  friends that invest and I was like I need it this needs to be bigger because if friends are not
• 10:46
  doing this hold on a second you'd started the Instagram before you even spoke to one of your friends
• 10:51
  yes isn't that so a sign of the times in terms of I'm going to just create this little account see
• 10:57
  what happens before even talking to someone that's so close to you isn't that wild we're just
• 11:02
  so scared to talk about money and to this day I think like you'll have friends in your life that
• 11:07
  they just don't want to talk about it and that's okay totally but it's just so taboo because so many
• 11:12
  of us associate money with our self worth and it's not the case but it's obviously easier said
• 11:18
  than done to be like who you are is not tied to like how much you have in your bank account it's
• 11:23
  always easier to say that when you have money as well but like when you're not at that stage you have
• 11:28
  to like really try to believe it it's so true though I feel a huge amount of well I think I'm
• 11:35
  a lot prouder of where I am now but I definitely used to feel a huge amount of shame around money
• 11:41
  and like the what it meant about me as a person and I think that that's where for us the curve
• 11:47
  I saw Vic doing so well and I was in so much debt and so I wonder didn't know what I was doing and
• 11:54
  it's crazy the flow on effects of feeling empowered with your money it's it's a confidence I know
• 12:00
  the word impact like being empowered is such an overused word but I do think it's this underlying
• 12:06
  confidence that you have got yourself that you you can't really explain until you feel it
• 12:13
  it's not the feeling you get when you buy a new outfit and you feel really cute or you tell
• 12:18
  a funny joke and people think you're funny it's it's almost like a more stable long lasting
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  confidence that I didn't have until you know the last couple of years but I completely relate to
• 12:29
  that do you know what I would love to talk about before we go too far into your portfolio or how
• 12:33
  you invest or more about friends that invest the psychology of money is one of those things
• 12:39
  that I think kind of similarly to what you just said about how we kind of are adverse to
• 12:44
  talking about money and if someone's allergic to the conversation they're always going to be I think
• 12:50
  whenever we bring up the psychology of money or your mindset it's a similar reaction
• 12:54
  because people just want the quick fix and that it's really easy to think oh god can we just
• 12:59
  like move on from like I don't want to talk about my childhood and my blah blah blah but it's
• 13:04
  so so important so before I ask some of these questions do you have any thoughts for someone who
• 13:09
  may be skipping through this part of the podcast because they don't want to learn about money
• 13:12
  minds it'll talk about that how could we reframe starting to get more curious about the way that
• 13:18
  we personally interact with money based on our history or the way that our parents were
• 13:23
  if you're in a place where you're like I just it's just this sticky subject I don't enjoy it
• 13:30
  it's dirty it's messy it's it brings up a lot trying to fix your relationship with money
• 13:36
  is a lot like trying to fix your relationship with relationships or with food or with like
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  anything that is hard to deal with you'd rather not like she's such a good point it would
• 13:49
  you like would I rather like watch my favorite TV show or sit down with myself and be like
• 13:53
  what happened to me at a time why do I buy a giant bag of salt mini-geurps every time I'm
• 14:01
  stress yeah and so it's like it's it's the work that you don't want to do but when you're on the
• 14:06
  other side of it of and I don't think you've really ever get to the other side of it's much like
• 14:10
  working at it and shipping at it but so much of who we are and how we interact with money really
• 14:16
  does come from how we grew up and when you read like research papers or data about the kind of
• 14:22
  reasons why people like to splurge or maybe don't feel like they're in control their money a lot of
• 14:27
  it comes down to well what were things like and you might ask someone you'd be like well what were
• 14:32
  things like at home and they'll go well mum and dad didn't like let us buy anything and they made
• 14:36
  it kind of a thing that we didn't have enough and they'd always say well money doesn't grow in
• 14:41
  trees and we don't have time for that we don't have space for that and so then you become this
• 14:45
  adult with all the free will in the world and you've got your you know paid first paycheck and
• 14:51
  you're like no one can stop me and it feels like naughty yeah I so remember that feeling do you
• 14:59
  remember or have you I mean I have you that of course you have let talk about your first memory
• 15:04
  of money what was it my first memory of money was my mum saying to me we were like at pack and save
• 15:14
  which is a budget supermarket always always shop there growing up my family were very very very
• 15:19
  frugal I thought we were actually incredibly poor because we had like no furniture we had like
• 15:26
  plastic chairs instead of couches and we had like the mattress on the floor and hindsight I realized
• 15:32
  my dad was just very frugal maybe because of how he had grown up where money was very scarce and
• 15:40
  he'd become you know the first nurse family to have a professional career and so he was like
• 15:44
  I'm not going to spend any of it but I just grew up thinking like poor dad poor mum like they're
• 15:49
  really struggling but I think they were very very middle class they were okay they were not as
• 15:54
  bad as they made it out to be but we were at the supermarket and my mum like pull me aside and
• 16:00
  hit she goes so your dad has just lost his job so don't ask for like don't be like mum I really
• 16:06
  want this I really want this because we can't afford it and it will really hurt like your dad's
• 16:11
  feelings that he can't like buy you this and so that was the first time where I understood like
• 16:15
  oh there's only so much and I think the second time like the second time it was a real thing was
• 16:20
  we had a family friend and they just bought like a plate you know those portable PlayStation
• 16:26
  so it does like consoles sort of I mean oh yes yeah I love you okay I think I do not
• 16:35
  scream with the buttons on the side yeah I was always really bad at games it's like I didn't
• 16:40
  really get into it well I tried to and my parents would not buy me one and then we had family
• 16:44
  friends and they had bought one and I was like look I'm no mathematician but if they can afford it
• 16:51
  and they have a similar job to you dad like why can't you buy me one because he was like we don't
• 16:55
  have money for it and then he explained to me he was like well sometimes people buy things even
• 16:59
  if it's outside of their budget they kind of thought it sometimes they might use credit cards
• 17:03
  and take out debt to buy it and it's like well he explained that to you yeah he was he was
• 17:07
  really good like that he was like I'm not gonna buy this for you because I'm only gonna buy
• 17:11
  things that I can afford and cash if we don't have the cash we're not getting it what an amazing
• 17:15
  lesson to learn so young yeah and so they were good in that way and they were just they were
• 17:20
  really really open in answering my questions when I would be like why are we buying the car in cash
• 17:25
  why are we going to these like why you negotiate the price of a couch at the furniture store
• 17:31
  and they'll be like $3,000 what about $2,500 cash and it was just really interesting to watch growing
• 17:38
  out and I still do it to this day really oh it's so funny and so I didn't realize I thought that
• 17:45
  your parents were first generation immigrants to New Zealand I didn't realize that was actually
• 17:50
  you like you were born in India yes how phenomenal like I just would love to hear about
• 17:56
  your memory there and has has that impacted the way that you think about what rich is or what
• 18:04
  wealth looks like that's a really good question I left when I was two so I don't have a lot of memory
• 18:10
  of growing up there but we did go back like every five years or every 10 years and so just like
• 18:15
  thinking of that when we go back to the village that my dad grew up in you know the village is
• 18:20
  still there and his cousins still live there and their kids still grew up there and it almost creates
• 18:27
  a sense of it's not quite survivor's guilt but it feels a little bit like survivor's guilt
• 18:31
  that like my dad was one of the lucky ones that was able to leave and it taught me very early on like
• 18:37
  you can be a really hard worker but hard work plus success is what you hard work plus luck is what
• 18:43
  you need like my dad was one of many you know hardworking engineers in India but he just happened to be
• 18:50
  the lucky one where he knew someone that was like hey we need some engineers in New Zealand
• 18:55
  would you like to come over and so that's how he got his break and was able to leave you know
• 19:00
  where where he had come from and it makes you very appreciative of of what you have and you realize
• 19:07
  that there was a study that I'd read and they said like happiness with income only works if you
• 19:15
  are comparing yourself happiness with like more income only really makes a difference if you are
• 19:20
  in a country where there is a large level of like deprivation so if you grow up in India getting
• 19:26
  a larger salary means that like maybe you're going to be able to put the toilet that is outside
• 19:33
  the outhouse into the home and that creates like you know a better way of living or you can afford
• 19:38
  a fridge and that when those things happened in my dad's family they were huge increases in their
• 19:44
  level of happiness but in you like if we grow up here or anywhere in the west we increase that
• 19:50
  income but our happiness doesn't increase as much because we go from like maybe a Toyota to a
• 19:55
  Lexus and we go from like a smaller house with a roof over our head to like a more beautiful one or
• 20:01
  one in a nicer area but the jumps aren't as large so I think it was more those things that it taught
• 20:06
  me and I've seen you speak about this a lot they're dead that money actually it's quite unhelpful
• 20:11
  and people say money doesn't bring you happiness because actually a level of money does bring
• 20:14
  happiness and I think that's such a good example when you have such an easy life and all you've
• 20:19
  ever known as the light switch on and you have electricity or you have a flushing low or all those
• 20:24
  things are just given you can't even imagine what life would be like without those yeah then yeah
• 20:29
  perhaps going from a 50,000 salarator 60 it's not going to bring a huge more amount of happiness
• 20:37
  ease in your life but it's completely different given the context and yeah I think that I don't
• 20:44
  know I just I almost feel like that connection with India and and you know the way that your parents
• 20:50
  grow up I think it would be really hard to ever forget not forget but to be really conscious and
• 20:57
  rooted in how successful and amazing it is where you are but also not taking that for granted
• 21:03
  because I think when a lot of us have never experienced a huge disparity or you've never seen
• 21:09
  people really close to you grow up in different environments like your context is just so much smaller
• 21:14
  do you think that the way that your parents were with money did that influence your the way you
• 21:21
  approach investing or risk was it quite hard to sort of break out of not not scrounge and save but
• 21:28
  what sounds like more of a scarcity mindset and you know keeping money in safe places because
• 21:34
  it once wasn't there yeah yeah how did that evolve for you when you learned about investing I
• 21:40
  think when I think you actually had a nail on the head like because my parents were so
• 21:45
  frugal and they had such a scarcity mindset it meant that they viewed money completely
• 21:50
  differently to how like I did and they always say like immigrant parents they come and they're
• 21:55
  so focused on building the foundation of safety and then the next generation's job like our job
• 22:00
  is to then take that safety and to take risk from it because we have that platform like if
• 22:06
  I wanted you know building a business is scary and there's a lot of risk involved
• 22:10
  but I always knew that if it all failed I can always move back home and that's a huge privilege
• 22:16
  and so that's them making sure that they my parents weren't big investors they didn't buy
• 22:23
  property outside of the one home they lived in they didn't really invest in shares at all and so
• 22:28
  their idea of success was like paid on the mortgage as fast as they can and have a big cash buffer
• 22:34
  and that was really interesting to watch but it did make me wonder like when I'd go to school I'd
• 22:39
  see other kids have like parents with a batch or parents that would go on holiday I like I was
• 22:45
  like I keep hearing about this place called the gold coast everyone keeps going to the gold coast
• 22:49
  like what is this special place and when can I go there that's awesome yeah and I kept getting
• 22:54
  the word gold coast confused with like a gold gulf course and I just thought it was like a beautiful
• 23:00
  mini gulf corset with the met out of gold like I was like where was I listen to this gulf
• 23:05
  this mythical land where is this mythical land because we never like did those sort of
• 23:11
  and we didn't have batches and any of that and so I think that's when I realized
• 23:16
  the way that we get told you will have a successful life was like go to school be really good
• 23:23
  diligent student at school get a good job save and it will all work out and maybe that worked
• 23:28
  in that parents generation does not work for us and I realized very quickly I was like well
• 23:34
  I'm gonna be an optometrist I'm gonna graduate and I'm gonna make $75,000 a year that's
• 23:38
  a really good salary in New Zealand to start off with how is that gonna translate to me buying a
• 23:43
  house when the average house price here is a million dollars that's not gonna work
• 23:48
  and I don't want to marry a rich man that's not really my my parents told me I didn't have the
• 23:52
  personality for I think how do we feel about that I think it's very honest they were just like
• 23:59
  you taught back like no I fully heard you saying my parents told me I didn't have a personality
• 24:06
  and I was like that's quite brutal you mean a personality to be with a really wealthy man
• 24:11
  they were like you're not a traditional you don't cut off like look look at our options
• 24:16
  you're not very good at that my dad goes you're not very good at being an employee you're
• 24:21
  gonna probably have to go into business it's quite funny just as a total tangent when you hear
• 24:27
  people talking about being with a you know really wealthy man as a job I never really understood
• 24:32
  that until I started seeing it and learning more about it and I'm like oh yeah I waved there's
• 24:35
  no way I could marry someone that had a lot of money I would not be sitting there quiet looking
• 24:40
  pretty just being helpful and you know yeah popping them up not for me no and like it's it
• 24:47
  it works some people and you just have to know like what's involved in it and I guess my parents
• 24:52
  just knew really on that it wasn't quite helpful to know well that's just counted not my future
• 24:57
  well let's put that on the side let's focus on your education how do you think that your idea
• 25:04
  of wealth or being rich and do you even talk about that like how do you describe it and how is
• 25:10
  that changed in the last 10 years so in Indian culture I feel like I'm talking about culture
• 25:14
  I know I'm honestly so fascinated so please do I don't usually dive into this but like in Indian
• 25:21
  culture and I think in a lot of like Middle Eastern cultures and maybe even like in pockets of
• 25:26
  the West as well we have this idea of Nuzard or of like the evil eye and you don't really want to talk
• 25:31
  about money or success or happiness too much you don't want to bring out what you're doing
• 25:36
  until you've done it because you're really scared of the evil eye but you you know so it's a
• 25:41
  kind of like the idea of like don't jinx yourself yes sort of that absolutely don't jinx yourself
• 25:47
  and also if you do talk about your wealth a lot or your money a lot that people will get
• 25:52
  envious and they'll wish ill upon you and you're just putting you're putting you're making yourself
• 25:56
  bad juju bad juju you're making yourself a big target and so that's like very prevalent in
• 26:02
  Indian culture and so that's how I grew up like don't talk about not that we had like money to
• 26:06
  talk about but it was like if you're going to do something if you're going to apply for optometrist
• 26:09
  go don't talk about it until you get in if you're going to buy if you're not if you're going to buy
• 26:13
  a house don't talk about it until the home is bought you've really stepped far away from the
• 26:18
  evil eye exactly and so if you know anything about me or the kind of content I create or the
• 26:25
  business I've built a lot of just theory private very private doesn't talk about a wealth at all
• 26:30
  the opposite I'm very very very open and it's it goes against everything I've learned but for me
• 26:38
  I only knew right only thought I could have maybe a hundred thousand dollars in the bank or a
• 26:45
  million dollars in the bank when I saw other women do it and that was so powerful for me I was
• 26:51
  like oh there's this creator Vanessa Lau and she had a business where she was like using online
• 26:58
  content to teach people how to grow on YouTube and I wasn't I didn't consume a content I wasn't
• 27:05
  trying to grow on YouTube but just seeing her be like I've made a million dollars doing this I was like
• 27:10
  oh my god like it's and she was an Asian woman like in Canada I was like you know I really see
• 27:16
  myself in her and I think when I see other people do things I'm like that's possible like when I
• 27:22
  saw Jacinda Ardern be prime minister I want to be prime minister I'd vote for you thank you
• 27:28
  what I meant by that is like I was like oh you can be a kind leader and that was like I need to
• 27:33
  see it to know I can do it and I mean I became an optometrist because my local family optometrist
• 27:39
  was a Punjabi woman and I was like she can do it I can do it so that's just how my brain works
• 27:45
  and so I wanted to share my journey of investing and saving and I would start I started sharing when
• 27:53
  I had like an eight thousand dollar net worth and I was like guys like monthly update and as it grew
• 27:58
  I kept sharing it and then it hit like a million dollar mark and I was like you know
• 28:04
  really skipped a few thousands in there eight to a million good Lord I mean it feels quick
• 28:09
  it was so amazing it's not quick it feels quick wow okay right first investment what was it
• 28:16
  I get confused I can't remember if it was either Amazon or the S&P 500 video I want to say it was
• 28:22
  Amazon stock so I was like online shopping this is going to be big guys she's a thing I don't know
• 28:29
  if you've heard of this thing called Amazon okay right and so the first investment do you
• 28:34
  remember how it made you feel it was so anti-climatic I honestly was like when is Warren Buffett
• 28:39
  going to come in and like congratulate me like pat me like get at least I like I'm a hundred
• 28:43
  year old congrats you've made it to 100 from the queen you invested it was because it when
• 28:48
  I started investing like the cost of investing you had like a trading fee was like eight dollars
• 28:55
  to do one trade and I remember just thinking like okay this is not that hard I just I just take
• 29:02
  it to the checkout and I buy the share like this is not what I grew up watching on TV or like
• 29:09
  this doesn't look like Wall Street yeah this doesn't look like a guy on the phone being like
• 29:12
  bye bye bye self-self-self and it just was so yeah it was so anti-climatic and I was like I guess
• 29:17
  I have like outside of my retirement fund which never felt like an investment portfolio when you're
• 29:22
  when you're that age I just thought oh that's boring actually yeah and that's you know what all
• 29:29
  great investors say they go investing should feel like watching paint dry because you do talk
• 29:37
  about this a lot can we based on the fact that we you know you're very open online about what you
• 29:42
  invest in for anyone that doesn't know what's in your portfolio how much it is the different asset
• 29:48
  classes you have can you just do it like hi my name is Simran and this is my entire portfolio
• 29:54
  you're not even 30 and you start oh yeah but like you can't claim it yet sorry I'm not in the 30s club
• 30:05
  honestly you're gonna want to get out soon to do it here so I wouldn't be jumping jumping
• 30:09
  towards it um but yeah I would love to get sort of an overview so you started with you know not
• 30:15
  a lot and now you have over a million what is that made up of my investment portfolio I've got like
• 30:20
  my public investments and my private investments my public investments are a big I have like a
• 30:26
  core within that I've got a core portfolio and then instead of like portfolio so the core portfolio
• 30:31
  is like so incredibly boring it is a paint drying stuff this is a paint drying stuff and this
• 30:36
  makes up bulk of my overall portfolio and this is boring S&P 500 funds like VOO it is so simple
• 30:44
  what is VOO that's the vanguard sorry got you yeah yeah S&P 500 VOO is the ticker for it and
• 30:50
  then I have a little bit of international it's like international excluding US funds one fund
• 30:58
  that invests in like just companies outside of the US that are doing incredibly well and so that
• 31:04
  includes like the Taiwanese I can never say their name Taiwanese semiconductor manufacturing
• 31:12
  company you know that would not have been in the S&P 500 so exposure to those kind of companies
• 31:17
  I used to have bonds I've sold my bonds I don't have bonds anymore I've just gone full risk nice
• 31:23
  love it I'm like I'm too long for bonds agree nice work at the stage I might add them back in
• 31:29
  so that's my core portfolio very boring like boggle head lazy method within the investing portfolio
• 31:34
  I can say like that makes up 80% then I have my satellite portfolio which is public companies
• 31:42
  that I am making a speculative investment and so things that I'm like I think this could do
• 31:46
  really well they could also completely drop off and those are the ones I'm like moving around a
• 31:51
  little bit buying and selling and that has like worked really well sometimes and there's also
• 31:56
  worked out really poorly sometimes like I have made returns that I'm like oh my god call me miss
• 32:03
  buffer then I have made returns I'm like I should really delete my companies like that one under
• 32:10
  the rug like my Rivian shares were down 80% and I had only put in a hundred dollars but it hurts you
• 32:16
  know yeah yeah and every time I see a Rivian car I mean I'm surprised I can't need to exist but
• 32:20
  anytime I see a car I'm like oh I feel a bit nauseous I feel a bit nauseous I can't look I can't
• 32:25
  look trauma trauma what are some companies you've done well in I had bought I mean these aren't
• 32:30
  going to be companies that will do well now because I bought so long ago device right like we've
• 32:34
  got disclaimer disclaimer this is all I try to be careful not to share them because I don't want
• 32:39
  people to go oh sure I think it's a really good idea to just pre-fest that this is a past return
• 32:44
  it's not necessarily saying that this is a good one for now yeah so I'd I'd bought like Tesla shares
• 32:49
  before I think 2019 or 2018 and so those did incredibly well and then the stocks would happen
• 32:57
  and then they went up like 400% and I was able to buy my first home like that was that was fun
• 33:03
  stunning absolutely so I can't wait for the day that I can actually be like do you know what I'm
• 33:09
  going to sell those I'm going to do something all value with you know I get the moment I know
• 33:15
  but it's more just like I haven't had a like a win inverted commas where I think wow that I can
• 33:22
  go and do something with that it's the accumulative effect for me still so I'm quite excited for one
• 33:27
  day to I'm thinking perhaps Netflix might be my moment you know like I've only put a thousand
• 33:32
  on so again not like I'm going to be able to do a huge amount but because it's down so much and I
• 33:37
  think it could have feature potential I'm like okay there'll be like a funnel satellite satellite
• 33:43
  yes satellite portfolio just kind of like a satellite like you've got your earth and you've got
• 33:47
  little satellite the colors comes around and so that's my like public portfolio then I have my
• 33:52
  private investment portfolio which I have like some money and venture an venture capital fund
• 33:58
  that's invested in like a lot of private companies like Crimson or Henry or like these if you know
• 34:04
  New Zealand companies you know them a holder tracksuit I then have like some individual investments
• 34:10
  and a group of friends and I um we have like a angel investing syndicate and so we also put
• 34:16
  money in private companies that way so that makes up like my private and public and then I have a
• 34:22
  real estate portfolio of my primary home and two rental properties that are on the same
• 34:28
  piece of land so I bought the back house and then the front house was for sale and they were both
• 34:33
  cross leases so owning them both makes them like the equivalent of owning a freehold yes so if I
• 34:38
  ever wanted to like develop on that land or do something down the track I don't have to ask
• 34:42
  permission I don't know if I'm over a chamber at 30 no no no I would love to talk to you about
• 34:50
  the idea of defining what enough looks like I don't know what my enough is I don't know how to
• 34:55
  figure it out and I feel quite existentially stressed about the idea of I do not want to be
• 35:03
  40 and having moved that goal post again 50 moving the goal post 60 I don't want to be living in
• 35:09
  this hamster wheel of always needing wanting more because I think that we can justify what
• 35:14
  financial security looks like and I just don't want to be that person and I look around and I think
• 35:20
  that's honestly it's probably the biggest most difficult thing to get out of because that's how
• 35:25
  I'll entire society and capitalism is basically built on wanting us to be obsessed with wanting more
• 35:33
  have you looked at what that looks like for you in terms of have you calculated a number or
• 35:40
  maybe it's a state of your business or the business is your own maybe it's mindset happiness
• 35:46
  what what does that look like and do you have like a really clear almost vision board of your
• 35:52
  enough this is such a good question and it's so hard because when I was first starting out my goal
• 35:58
  was like I want to have a million dollars invested because a million dollars invested you know if
• 36:03
  you can pull down to 3% or 4% of that that's that should be enough money to retire on because
• 36:09
  that's you know to cover my expenses and remember reaching that goal this is going to sound like
• 36:13
  a champagne problem I remember reaching that goal and being like I don't feel any better
• 36:20
  and now I'm angry at myself because what kind of person am I that I have a million dollars
• 36:25
  invested and I'm not happy like I don't feel like I've reached enough so then I said a different
• 36:29
  goal I was like well I want to have this much invested and then I'll be happy and then I reach
• 36:33
  that goal and I was like okay I don't think it's the money I think the issue is internal like I think
• 36:37
  I need to work on myself and kind of reflect and grow and and figure out what is enough for me so it
• 36:42
  wasn't something that came naturally I wasn't like oh I'm here and I'm happy it was like what make
• 36:48
  what brings me joy what are those things and what am I spending money on that does not improve my
• 36:56
  happiness and I can remove and therefore I can actually figure out an enough number and for me I
• 37:00
  realized I really really value having flexibility in my day like I really value being able to go
• 37:07
  oh we have a podcast recording and maybe it might go over I can I can clear my schedule and stay
• 37:13
  like that is a really important feeling for me I think it is for me too and I don't think I realized
• 37:18
  it and I also don't feel like I'm financially stable enough to make that decision yet yeah it's like
• 37:24
  you just have to figure out what are the things that bring me a lot of joy or make my life better
• 37:29
  and for me it was those things whereas maybe it wasn't I mean I would I would still love like a
• 37:34
  really nice beautiful home I don't have that and sometimes I'm like it would be nice to upgrade like
• 37:40
  the house I have is very bare basic but then it's the idea of enough like will that really make me
• 37:47
  happier if I buy like a much nicer house am I going to be double the amount of happy if I buy a house
• 37:53
  double the price like absolutely not you get very hedonic treadmill you get comfortable and what
• 37:59
  you're in and eventually just is another home and it's just where you live and it's like if you don't
• 38:03
  have a happy relationship with yourself or with your partner you can live in a beautiful home
• 38:07
  and still be really sad and so it was a lot of like internal this got quite deep internal reflection
• 38:13
  and I realized like I do have it enough number there is a certain amount I want to have invested
• 38:18
  that I haven't reached yet and I know that if I get to that point there is nothing that I could do
• 38:26
  that would put me in a bad financial place like I will always be okay and that's a really
• 38:32
  important goal for me I think when you don't grow up with a lot of money you kind of always think
• 38:37
  what if it all goes away what if it gets taken or if you some people have like seen their families
• 38:43
  have money and then lose money for them it's the same feeling it's like well it could go
• 38:46
  so how do you suggest someone listening if they are feeling inspired by the idea of wanting
• 38:52
  to have a goal post that does not move? where is a good place to start to try and figure out
• 38:59
  what that number is for somebody? well there's two ways to do it if you want to get really into
• 39:03
  detail I can go over that the quickest way is you just choose a number you're like it would be
• 39:07
  nice to live off $80,000 a year like just without working getting $80,000 a year like you have
• 39:13
  your entrust fund and then you just times that by the number 25 and that's how much you need
• 39:18
  in investable assets and that is your enough number. why is that? why 25? it's that study
• 39:25
  I wouldn't call it a Trinity study but I remember its name it was the study that figured out
• 39:29
  if you want to retire early you can live off 4% of your investments and so they figured out like
• 39:36
  you just take the salary long times by 25 and that's your final investment amount that you can
• 39:43
  draw 4% that's so awesome it's such an easy way to figure it out and so if you're like my goal
• 39:48
  is to have 100 like I want to live a really bougie retirement life I want $100,000 a year
• 39:54
  times that by 25 now you need 2.5 million oh I love that because I just feel really I felt so
• 40:01
  annoyed about the fact that I haven't known how much I want and I think having an end goal makes
• 40:05
  things feel tangible motivating exciting achievable it's the sort of endless pit of I'm investing
• 40:13
  in doing this and it is kind of sometimes feels like this never-ending cycle that you just don't
• 40:19
  know how to get to a point where you're happy and I wasn't sure if it was just a mentality shift
• 40:24
  but actually you can put a number on it I think that's awesome you can put a number on it and you can
• 40:28
  like have one of those things in your bedroom where you've got you should remember those like the
• 40:34
  moment of drawings again visual person and you just get like a sharpie and just like start
• 40:39
  filling it out as you're getting close all the dog one of those maps where you scratch where you
• 40:42
  bang I really want one of those so it's like do it you could do something like that I love that
• 40:47
  it's enough to be like in your bedroom and someone comes over and they're like are you
• 40:51
  unwell I think I'd love that I mean I've been putting that in my like it would almost be a piece
• 40:56
  of art in my living room what's that my network if you go really close you can see the exact amount
• 41:06
  oh my god how close you are to any kind of goal and then if you want to get really technical with
• 41:10
  it then you figure out you draw out like your dream life you're like what kind of house do I want
• 41:14
  to live in what kind of car do I want to drive how often do I want to travel how much would those
• 41:18
  things cost maybe per month like the mortgage on the house on the car on the travel okay and that
• 41:24
  is that fitting in the number you're giving yourself as the annual amount yes and then you go okay
• 41:28
  so that's like a really nice lifestyle maybe that's like $150,000 a year okay times that by 25
• 41:35
  so to live my dream life and to never work again I just have to have that just have to have to
• 41:41
  have that amount invested this is so exciting it's fine I wish my phone wasn't filming this so I could
• 41:46
  immediately film I mean figure out how much I am going to be we can do it after I got really
• 41:57
  bad news really really really bad news so I should never be trusted to record a podcast without
• 42:03
  our amazing producer Emily there was another half an hour we recorded with some and unfortunately
• 42:08
  if the recording equipment so I'm so sorry but I thought I would end this by actually figuring out
• 42:17
  my enough number which I've actually always wanted to do and never really know on how to do it so
• 42:22
  this was quite a big a harm moment for me so I've spent some time thinking about how much money I
• 42:28
  would want and I will say I'm slightly embarrassed to admit how high this number is and this is actually
• 42:33
  really difficult to figure out but basically what I did was when I was earning £90,000 I felt
• 42:40
  quite good I had money to invest I had money to travel so I have actually figured this out based
• 42:47
  on an £80,000 annual amount which I think is a lot of money and our producers sitting next to me
• 42:56
  cracking up because I realise that makes me sound like such a brat but I really want to travel a lot
• 43:00
  and spend money on friends and I don't know I don't want to feel like I'm having to think about
• 43:05
  money when I'm quote unquote retired and look maybe I'm not going to reach this number but I feel
• 43:11
  like I would rather shoot high and then still be comfortable rather than be so like cutting it so
• 43:18
  fine so I've actually got a target of £2 million that I need to retire which is a lot of money and
• 43:29
  I'm no way near close to this so I'm potentially going to have to rethink my budget, my lifestyle
• 43:36
  what's actually realistic but even seeing that like seeing that number is quite good to at least have
• 43:44
  some kind of a target I don't know if anyone listening has figured out there enough number but I
• 43:49
  would really love to know if you have if you don't feel comfortable posting it in the comments could
• 43:55
  you email us or send us a DM yeah keen to hear thoughts feedback do I sound like a spoiled brat but
• 44:00
  yes I um loved this conversation with her I think she's just so phenomenal and amazing and if you
• 44:06
  have not listened to her podcast or followed her on socials we'll put all of her channels and
• 44:11
  details in the podcast show notes but yes hope you enjoyed the episode apologies again for their
• 44:16
  abrupt finish I promise I will not record an episode that Emily again okay bye thank you so
• 44:24
  much for listening to raising the curve these conversations are designed to teach you everything
• 44:28
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• 44:32
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• 44:36
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• 44:39
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• 44:45
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• 44:52
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• 44:57
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• 45:01
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• 45:05
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• 45:10
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