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Sales Without the Sleaze for Solopreneurs Who Hate Selling · The Life-First Solopreneur

• 0:00
  Carly Ries: What do teaching algebra to teenagers and getting a four year old to eat broccoli have in common? Well, it turns out they're both sales. Today on the life first solopreneur, we're talking with Nicole Cramer, a former high school math teacher who became the number one salesperson in the country for a Fortune 500 company. Nicole shares the one word she banned from her vocabulary because it felt too salesy, the rejection free question that gets people leaning in instead of backing away, why trying to sell to everybody means you're selling to nobody, and how to finally break the feast and famine cycle that catches so many solopreneurs off guard. Let's get into it.
• 0:35
  You're listening to the life first solopreneur, the podcast for those in pursuit of a life first business. I'm Carly Ries, and my cohost Joe Rando, and I spend every episode with solopreneurs who are proving there's a better way to run a one person business and experts who are helping make it happen. We like to say life first, then business. So let's get right to it. Nicole, so we're gonna talk a little bit about sales today.
• 1:02
  We're gonna talk a little bit about just being a solopreneur, the ins and outs, and life first business, and all the good stuff that solopreneurs like to hear about. But on the topic of sales, I need to know this. Because you are quite the saleswoman, and I feel like there is some jargon that some sales people kinda get into. So for our icebreaker question, what is a word or phrase that you've secretly banned from your own vocabulary because it sounds too salesy?
• 1:28
  Nicole Cramer: Good question. There are a lot of them. I remember way back in my very beginning of sales, when I was new to my corporate sales job, I hated the word contract. And every time I had a conversation with somebody about signing my contract, it felt very uncomfortable for me because I kept thinking, well, I wouldn't wanna sign a contract either. I don't want to be locked into something.
• 1:48
  And so I remember very specifically changing it to a different word, and I made it agreement. Because to me, that felt like I was entering a partnership. We are agreeing on these terms together versus I'm asking you to sign a contract that you're stuck in. That was a big mindset shift for me early on. It's a simple swap that makes a big difference in your approach to conversations, which I think is where we remove the salesy feeling, and we make it more about what it really is, a relationship.
• 2:15
  And when we're agreeing on something together, those are just terms that protect both of us.
• 2:20
  Joe Rando: That's pretty brilliant because it's true. I mean, As a customer, you want a contract
• 2:25
  Nicole Cramer: Uh-huh.
• 2:26
  Joe Rando: Because you need that protection. But it does sound kind of like one of those things that, oh, Now I'm gonna get locked in and... Yeah. That's great. I like it.
• 2:35
  Nicole Cramer: It was a big deal because it was a three year thing I was asking them to commit to. So what I also did is Not only did I call it an agreement, but I said the last thing I would ever want is for you to feel stuck in anything. So would it help if I also shared with you how you could take steps to get out of it if it's something that's not working for you anymore?
• 2:52
  So I took all the friction out of what I was asking them to do, which I was still gonna get them to do the thing. It just made it a lot easier of a yes for them when they knew what was in it for them.
• 3:03
  Carly Ries: See, Nicole, you clearly know your stuff. And I'm not just making that up based on this conversation. You were actually the number one salesperson in the country, correct me if I'm wrong, for a Fortune 500 company, which kudos to you on that. But I think you might hear that and think, she's probably been always been a salesman and it was natural, but you weren't always a salesman. You were a high school math teacher, and then you became a saleswoman.
• 3:28
  So what made you believe... I mean, I hesitate to say the word delusional, but I kinda wanna say like, what made you believe that a delusional goal was possible going from that to sales? And did teaching give you any training that a traditional sales career couldn't?
• 3:47
  Nicole Cramer: Well, I'll say this first. I think being a high school math teacher has taught me way more than I ever realized in life that's helped me in so many areas of my life since then. You are correct, Carly, to call it a delusional goal. It was very delusional.
• 3:59
  I didn't even know what it meant to be number one. I just had some friends who were in sales who were very successful, and I loved when they talked about presidents trips and being number one. And I'm a big competitor. I was a collegiate athlete. And so it's always exciting to me to chase a carrot. I was giving math quizzes and being a math teacher and hearing my friends talk about all these contests. So I didn't know that it was super delusional. I just knew I had friends that were number one, so if they could do it, why not me? But I had a lot of limiting beliefs about becoming a salesperson. Number one, because I didn't want to be that salesy weirdo.
• 4:30
  Number two, I didn't believe that without experience that I could actually do it. I thought I was too old. I'd been a teacher for fifteen years. How could you possibly switch careers?
• 4:38
  A list of all the things. And it's interesting because I just did my TEDx talk about this exact thing. Because we all have sets of limiting beliefs in our life that are holding us back from the actual thing that we want. And so that was the first delusion that I had to get around is the the idea that I could be a salesperson. And I discovered that, when I went on an interview for a sales job, I was worried that without experience that the guy would tell me, you know, he can't hire me.
• 5:01
  And it turns out that's exactly what he did. I got to the end of the interview and he said, listen, I think you're great, but you don't have experience. You've never sold anything. And I said, well, I've been selling math for fifteen years
• 5:13
  Joe Rando: I was just gonna say that. Like, you've been selling algebra to high school kids. That's the tougher sale than anything.
• 5:18
  Nicole Cramer: And that was the first time I realized it. because I would have never thought of myself as a salesperson ever before that because I didn't have the title. I wasn't an official, salesperson.
• 5:28
  However, we are all selling something. And in that moment is when I realized it because I didn't have that planned to say in the interview. But when he called me out, it was kinda like, listen, I've been getting teenagers to do math for fifteen years. If I can make that happen, I can make anything happen. And that turned the interview around, to be honest with you.
• 5:45
  He was ready to send me out the door. But in that moment when I said that, he goes, that's good. That's really good. And so from that point on, to answer your question, I just started selling myself one belief at a time.
• 5:57
  It's like, Went on the interview. That went okay. I made it to the next round. That went okay. And it was like step by step, I just kept kinda selling myself on each next step.
• 6:05
  Joe Rando: Did you get the job from that one?
• 6:08
  Nicole Cramer: Well, what's really crazy is I went and told another friend. So no, because after that interview, I went on to the next round, but I was so excited that I'm in this interview process that I went to another friend who had always told me I should be in sales. And I said, guess what? I went on a sales interview. And he looked at me and he goes, why would you do that?
• 6:24
  And I was like, well, you always told me I should be in sales. And he said, I don't want you to just be in sales. I want you to work for me. I didn't know he was a sales manager that could hire me and that's why he'd been saying it for all along. So he said, why don't you come to my office and just meet our sales team and see what it's all about since you're looking for a sales job?
• 6:42
  And that was like the... A faster track to me. I ended up getting offered the job by his company, and that was the beginning.
• 6:50
  Carly Ries: Well, Joe, I mean, hearing that story, I feel like you should move me from a marketing to a sales role because I got my four year old to eat broccoli. So I feel like that's the biggest sale!
• 7:02
  Joe Rando: It's done. Sold.
• 7:03
  Carly Ries: Done. You're right. I'm now in sales, you guys. I did the hardest thing you can do. Actually, broccoli's second to teaching high school kids algebra. That might be the hardest thing to teach.
• 7:14
  Joe Rando: You know, I'm a math geek. I'm a math geek, but I'm not sure about the broccoli that... If you could get my granddaughter to eat broccoli, You would you would become the chief sales officer.
• 7:27
  Nicole Cramer: Well, Okay. Here's the thought, you guys. Let's think about that. Sell them what they want. Give them what they need. How could you get your kids to eat the broccoli? Blend it and put it in soup. Right?
• 7:36
  Like, It's the same way we create any sales opportunity. How can we give the person what they want, but still give them what they need? And then they'll buy into it. Your kids might buy into soup.
• 7:47
  Carly Ries: I put a lot of cheese on it, if we're being honest. There you go.
• 7:51
  Nicole Cramer: Pour the cheese on there.
• 7:53
  Joe Rando: So this is a new sales method we're developing here. The cheese on broccoli method of selling.
• 7:59
  Carly Ries: Yes. Registered trademark. Well, Nicole, okay. So this kinda goes back to the whole high school thing. Because at the end of the day,
• 8:06
  What you were doing as a teacher is you were helping kids learn math. And you have said that sales is just helping people, which seems so approachable. Most people want to help other people.
• 8:20
  But so many salesmen, specifically solopreneurs, or who are trying to sell their own business, just freeze on discovery calls. So if it's just helping people, where does the root of that fear come from? And how do you separate, genuine service from feeling quote unquote, it's like car salesman sales thing?
• 8:38
  Nicole Cramer: Yeah. The transaction I think is what freaks people out. I think they associate the transaction with the sale. And the way I teach sales and the way I practice sales and what made me very successful at it is I approached it from a relationship first, people over profits.
• 8:52
  And it's not because I don't love making money. We all love making money and we all wanna make more of it. But there's a little bit of a hang up where people are thinking like, oh, I'm just asking people for money. Well, number one, yes, you are. But number two, in exchange for what?
• 9:04
  And that's where the inner work of the sales process is really, really important because number one, we've gotta understand what are we actually selling, and why is it important that we sell it and share it with others? We've gotta get so behind the thing that we sell, and It's scary to sell your own product. It's scary to sell your own thing because it's your IP, it's your thoughts, it's your process, and we sometimes take it too personal around what it is and how it helps people because it's not for everybody. And so we get a little hung up on you know, wanting it to help everybody, but it's not for everybody. It is for somebody. So I would say first and foremost, we've gotta get behind the thing that we sell and believe in it so much that it would be out of integrity if we didn't share it with people because there are people who genuinely need it. the analogy that I use a lot is if you have a cure for headaches, and you're walking around and you're not sharing it with people, there are people who right now need it and want it. So, you know, when I first decided that I wanted to be in sales, even before I went on those interviews, I kept saying, I would never sell anything that I didn't believe in.
• 10:13
  It had to be a product that I was a consumer of, or else I wouldn't be able to sell it. Because how could I talk somebody or convince somebody into doing something that I wasn't willing to do myself? And I think that that's a big part of the process as well, is you can only take people as far as you've gone yourself. So believe in what you're selling, and that's gonna make a big difference in your conversations with people.
• 10:35
  Joe Rando: You know, That points out something that I'd like your take on. But to me, what you're saying in this idea of It's not for everybody, but it is for somebody, and then having it be something where there's almost a moral imperative to share it with them Comes down to niching, right? You've gotta focus your product such that it's really beneficial to a small group of people, instead of kind of beneficial to maybe more people in order for that to work.
• 11:03
  Would you agree?
• 11:04
  Nicole Cramer: Absolutely. I mean, If you're trying to be for everybody, then you're for nobody. Because nobody feels like you're talking to them. Nobody feels like you understand them and you get them.
• 11:14
  And for someone to want to purchase something from you, trust has to be there. And trust means you understand, you feel understood, and you feel cared about. But if you're so busy trying to be for everybody, which a lot of beginning business owners and entrepreneurs do because It's kind of the name of the game when you start out. You will take anybody and everybody.
• 11:30
  You gotta get reps. You gotta get practice. You gotta get, some experience under your belt if you don't have it already. But there comes a point where it's like, you've gotta be really clear who you're for because then they know you're for them. It makes your messaging easier.
• 11:42
  It makes your sales process easier. It does a lot of the heavy lifting for you. And the the question I like to ask people is , if you have something going on with your heart, who do you wanna see to get help? A cardiologist.
• 11:54
  Why not a general practitioner? And maybe you'd start there, but ultimately, who do you want to see you? Somebody who specializes in the very thing that you're having a challenge around. What restaurant do you wanna go to?
• 12:06
  You want to go to a restaurant because you're in the mood for steak. So you go to a steak restaurant because that's what they specialize in. Right? If you're in the mood for steak, you probably don't go to, Cheesecake Factory.
• 12:15
  Joe Rando: Waffle House.
• 12:16
  Nicole Cramer: Or Waffle House. Right? And could Waffle House make steak? Sure.
• 12:20
  Could Cheesecake Factory make steak? Sure. But, do you want to go somewhere where they can, or do you want to go somewhere where they specialize in it? And as a business owner, you can still get business being for everybody. It's gonna be a lot harder.
• 12:32
  It's not gonna be as valuable, and you're probably not gonna make as much. You're gonna work a lot harder than you would if you are very specific about who you're for. It just does a lot of that heavy lifting in your sales process because what happens is you are talking about things that people hear, and they go, oh, she gets me. She knows me. She understands me.
• 12:52
  And the only way you can be that specific with pain points is if you know who has those pain points and you're very clear how they describe them, and that's niching.
• 12:59
  Joe Rando: Yep. Amen.
• 13:01
  Carly Ries: Well, so we're just kinda talking about a stereotype where people really, like, they freeze when it comes to discovery calls and the whole sales process. But I think another stereotype and maybe misconception that people have with sales is it is the hustle culture. And maybe I'm thinking of the nineteen eighties, like, go go go.
• 13:20
  Joe Rando: Glengarry, Glen Ross.
• 13:23
  Nicole Cramer: Always be closing.
• 13:25
  Joe Rando: Always be closing. ABC. And so I think there is that connotation. But ironically, we are called the life first solopreneur because we like to help people run a business that serves their life and their goals while creating a business to sustain that, but not one that runs it. So you've hit consistently twenty k plus months with a full client roster, a wait list, everything. What does your calendar and boundaries look like to sustain to sustain something like that without burning out?
• 13:58
  Nicole Cramer: Great question. And the first answer I'll give is that was a great opportunity for me to learn what my max and also where I wanted to land with that type of a setup in my business. And, I'm sure anybody who's listening has started to see this or will very soon as in the life of an entrepreneur, your business is gonna take some different forms and some different shapes based on what you learn about yourself and different things that you try and different things that you do. And so I think one of the reasons that we're doing things is to figure out what's my limit here?
• 14:33
  Where do I wanna live? And to your point, this is about soul first strategy second. That's how we want to design everything that we're doing. Because if you want to do something that you feel obligated to do and that runs your life, go get a w two. That will take care of that.
• 14:46
  Right? We're not building businesses so that we can give ourselves a job and give ourselves another opportunity to spread ourself too thin. And so the first questions that we need to ask is what's important to me in my life, and let me build a business around that. And sometimes as you're building that business, no different than if you're at the gym and you're trying different weight sets. You get to your max weight and you're like, okay, that's as much as I can do without hurting myself.
• 15:10
  And so let's try that for a while. So, you know, when I got that full roster of clients, I had I think 18 or 20 private clients. And it was a lot you know, a lot of coaching calls every day. And that was what birthed the idea for me that, hey, you know what? It's probably time to put a group program together.
• 15:29
  Because if I've got this much demand, let me not suffer through this. Let me not be like, oh, this is so hard and I've too many clients. It felt that way for a minute, but then I realized, wait. This is also an invitation to restructure and add some new pieces to my business because of what I'm learning from this. so I went to all 18 private clients and said, hey, very, very early stages. I'm putting together a community. Do you wanna be a part of it? Here's the deal I'll give you because you know, buying in early on. Almost every single one of them said yes. And then that was officially my first group program. I feel like everything's always giving us an opportunity to learn and teach us more about what we want more of. And what I didn't want more of is that hustle pedal to the metal constantly having a call on my calendar, and that gave me the opportunity to redesign it based on what I learned.
• 16:15
  Carly Ries: That's so helpful. And with that, you have a podcast called Healthy Steps with Nicole, and Healthy shows up throughout your work and all this balance. How does your view of health... I mean, physically, mentally, financially, shape how you run your business day to day? You kind of just alluded to it with what we were just talking about, but is there more?
• 16:33
  Nicole Cramer: Yeah. I think we have to remember that we are our own instrument. And if we do not fine tune ourselves, we will play wonky music. The bottom line is you can't truly help people unless you are in a place where you are fully taken care of because our body's job, your your body's one job is to keep you alive. And if you start doing a bunch of things that are causing you to not take the best care of yourself, miss out on sleep, you know, skip meals, and do things in the name of productivity, and I've gotta get all this stuff done, you naturally will be self obsessed. Because if there's something in your body that's saying, hey, we're hungry, hey, we're hungry, hey, we're hungry, you couldn't possibly be fully focused on the things that you need to really focus on to run and operate your business well. And so my definition of health would be first and foremost, how are you taking care of yourself physically, emotionally, spiritually, so that you're showing up as the best version of you? Because if there are pieces that you are suffering through or denying to yourself or compromising around your health and wellness, that is gonna show up somewhere in your results and in what you're creating. And again, it's like we can't allow ourselves to compromise what is important about our health because it will show up in what we're creating.
• 17:54
  Carly Ries: Well, speaking of the health and wellness scene, a lot of your audience is in that space. So I'd imagine that people who are in that health and wellness space, they really love what they do. But like we were saying earlier, they dread selling it.
• 18:09
  So what would be the first mindset shift? Not necessarily just the health and wellness space, but for people that love what they do, what's the first mindset shifts that you would give someone who says, I hate selling?
• 18:19
  Nicole Cramer: I think the most important thing , Well, first of all, are you open to seeing it differently? That would be my question. Because if somebody's hell bent on hating selling, then we are where we are. Right?
• 18:29
  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. So there's no point in trying to change somebody's mind who doesn't wanna change. But if somebody's saying I hate selling and yet I want to do more of it because I like money, then we've gotta close that gap. So are you open to seeing selling differently?
• 18:44
  If not, stay there. If so, then how could we start to look at what selling actually is? Well, selling means somebody has a problem. If you're selling things to people that don't have problems, then stop.
• 18:55
  Selling comes because there's a need that someone has around a problem that they haven't figured out their own solution to or they don't wanna figure out their own solution to. So you're helping them with something that you know and something that you have experienced, you've done for yourself, you've done for other people is really valuable to somebody who's stuck over here and can't get to where they wanna go. And so if we really look at it as like, hey, I'm helping that person with an area of their life that they want help in or haven't figured out how to help themselves, the transaction is just the exchange. It's just the byproduct.
• 19:25
  You've got the knowledge. You've got the experience. You've got the way. Not everybody wants it, so stop trying to push your stuff on people that don't want it because that's where it gets salesy. But for the people who need it, if you don't show up, how can they find it?
• 19:37
  You know, I had this big epiphany when I was new to sales in corporate, and Listen. I spent a good year, year and a half of feeling salesy and feeling nervous and feeling, you know, like I didn't have the courage and the confidence because I didn't want to be perceived as being salesy. And I realized one day, and I hope everybody hears what I'm about to say loud and clear and applies it to their own life, I realized if I wasn't gonna show up and sell... now this was in a corporate environment. So I had competitors. If I wasn't gonna show up and take care of the people who needed my service, because there were people buying it all around, if my fear of being salesy was gonna prevent me from showing up, what other option did those people have? They had to go to one of my competitors. You know what I knew for sure?
• 20:16
  I knew nobody cared as much as I did. I knew nobody would go above and beyond the way that I did because I cared about helping people. It was really important to me to help people. And if I wasn't gonna step up to the plate, I was gonna let them go get experience or buy from somebody else who wasn't gonna take as good care of them. And that was when I had the shift of, why shouldn't it be me?
• 20:35
  I care more. I wanna help people, and I know how to help them. And if that's true for anybody listening, if you know that you care more, you know you go above and beyond, and you know you have a way to help people, why shouldn't it be you? And it's not for everybody, but your people are out there that are hoping and wishing and praying that you show up with their solution, and you make it easy for them to access that solution. And that's what selling is.
• 20:57
  It's like, you're welcome that I put my experience together and packaged it for you in this nice little way that you can buy it from me. Because truth be told, Like, all of my advice that I've ever given, It's out there for free on the Internet.
• 21:10
  It's in podcasts just like this one. It's in YouTube videos that I've recorded. All of it's for free. But what happens when we put it together in a nice package where somebody can buy it from us? They can consume it and access it in an easier way.
• 21:21
  That's all we're doing. We're putting information together, experiences together for people to purchase. And for the right people, it's super valuable. It's probably way more valuable than what you're charging for it.
• 21:34
  Carly Ries: Let's say we have a listener right now and they're like, Nicole, I get it, and I really wanna help people, and I really wanna sell my business, and it is the best solution for them, and I know it is in my heart of hearts, but can you please just tell me what to say? Which makes me pivot to, you are a certified guide for exactly what to say. What's one specific phrase or question do you think that consistently changes the outcome of a sales conversation, and why do you think that works?
• 21:59
  Nicole Cramer: One of my favorites is... I have two favorite rejection free openers. One of them I used already. I said, how open minded are you to changing how you feel about selling? The reason it's rejection free is when you ask someone how open minded they are, and let's say it's one of the people listening.
• 22:17
  It's your product or service that you want to know if someone is interested in learning about. How open minded would you be to hearing about my new marketing package? How open minded would you be to hearing about my health coaching package? The reason that's really effective is everybody on the planet wants to see themselves as open minded. Nobody really walks around thinking that they're...
• 22:36
  Well, There are a few people out there that are happy to be closed minded. Right? I'm closed minded. Okay. Stay there.
• 22:41
  But most people... Psychologically, we want to see ourselves as open minded people. So when you say you know, I've got this new webinar that I'm putting together to help people get healthier, and have more energy.
• 22:52
  How open minded would you be to checking out the details? You're not saying, do you wanna check out the details? You're saying, how open minded are you? So the question you're actually asking appeals to their subconscious, because they're like, well, yeah, I see myself as an open minded person. And so they're like, no, I'm open to it.
• 23:07
  And that makes the pathway rejection free to starting a conversation with somebody because they're not really rejecting you. They're just saying I'm not interested at this time or I'm not open to it. And most people are gonna say, I'm open to hearing more because they see themselves as being an open minded person.
• 23:22
  Carly Ries: So Nicole, again, let's say a listener is tuning in right now, and they're like, this all sounds great. I wanna help people. I listen to what you just said. I have that phrase down. I'm ready to rock the sales.
• 23:35
  But I kinda have limited time for sales because I'm a solopreneur, and I don't have more than twenty four hours a day like any other person. But you talk about growing a business without implementing, let's say, million and one strategies. How do you help these solopreneurs cut through everything they have to do, and focus on the few things that actually move revenue for their business.
• 23:57
  Nicole Cramer: If you don't focus on sales, you will be out of business very quickly, number one. Like, we have to recognize that This is not a hobby. And if it is, then carry on however you want to.
• 24:08
  If you're self funding a hobby that you enjoy doing, great. But I don't know any business owners on the planet who can afford to not bring in revenue if they want to continue to operate. And that's how we allow ourselves to keep doing the work that we do. So if we genuinely care about this work, then we've gotta get out of our way around the hang ups we have around selling because you're only gonna be able to do it for so much longer if you're not bringing revenue.
• 24:30
  You don't have anything more important in your business other than deliverables to focus on than selling. And if you're brand new and you don't have deliverables yet because you haven't brought on new new clients, then you have all the time in the world to do one thing and one thing only, which is focus on sales. Don't fiddle with your website. Don't set up funnels. Don't do any of the other things that that you feel are important about having a business.
• 24:52
  Because you don't have or a need for any of those things until you start to bring in actual traffic. I'm not saying that you don't wanna have a website. I'm not saying that you don't want to focus on some different strategies that you're implementing. But the primary focus of any of those things that you're doing has to be because it helps sales.
• 25:08
  Carly Ries: Gotta sell your product or service. Okay. So this is something that we end with all of our guests. We ask this question, which is what... Yeah. Joe, go ahead.
• 25:17
  Joe Rando: I Wanna ask a different question before we wrap up because I just love what you're saying, and you really get solopreneurs, which is very cool. But one of the biggest problems we see with solopreneurs, even some that have been at it for a while, is that they do focus on lead gen and sales until they get deals, and then they focus on doing the work. And then they wake up one day, and they don't have a pipeline.
• 25:42
  And then they're back to... so I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions for, strategies for avoiding that feast and famine cycle.
• 25:52
  Nicole Cramer: I think first, it needs to happen to some capacity so that we have that connection to why we can't let the selling habits go once we've brought in new people. Because everybody makes that mistake. And it hit close to home when you asked me that question, because I remember being very new, getting some sales when I was in my corporate job, and being really excited and wanting to pour into those new customers. I'm excited I've made a sale.
• 26:17
  I'm pouring everything into it, and I did not continue my habits that I had done to bring those new customers in. And within about two months, I had a completely dried up pipeline. And that's a scary place to be because you brought some money in, you're excited, you've got some momentum, but you stop doing the things that made that work to begin with. And we do kinda have to be burned a little bit by that because that's what makes you even more convicted around building the habits to continue your sales coming in. So I would say, first, let that burn a little bit so that you recognize it.
• 26:48
  But the most important thing and the thing that I do with my clients all the time is we start to build the habits from the very beginning so that you are just in natural conversations every single day that are creating opportunities for you. And then understanding we can't let those go just because we've started to bring in some clients. And that's where you get to start to learn more about yourself and the balance. Just like Carly had asked earlier, how do we not burn ourselves out? How do we not throw ourselves into this hustle culture and all or nothing, ways of operating.
• 27:16
  We learn as we go, and then we recognize what are the most important pieces of our business. And Sales and customer service have to be there.
• 27:24
  Joe Rando: Great. Thank you.
• 27:26
  Carly Ries: Joe, can you say your redundancy thing?
• 27:31
  Joe Rando: Department of redundancy department?
• 27:33
  Carly Ries: Yeah. At risk of going into the department of the redundancy department, because I feel like what you just said could actually answer the question that I'm about to ask, but I wanna ask it anyway. So again, we end this... We end our shows Always with this question, and that is what is the lasting life first piece of advice you have for our listeners?
• 27:52
  So again, is it trial and error, or is there one other... Like, if you want to live a life first business, here are my 2¢.
• 27:58
  Nicole Cramer: The first business coach I ever worked with said something to me very early on that I will never forget. She said, you think you're starting a business, and what you're actually starting is a giant personal development seminar. And I think that if we are really starting a very intentional life first business, which I think we all should, because we're not living to work. That's not why we were put on this planet. We want to work in order to live.
• 28:25
  And if we recognize that the business that we are running and operating is also helping us be more of ourselves and build our relationship with ourselves, then we start to see where these principles and lessons apply in every area of our life. And so I think it's just recognizing that there is a lot of crossover, like a lot of your life will feel like it is involving your business, but that doesn't mean that you're meant to put that time on the calendar and constantly be working. You understanding your relationship with yourself and how that's developing is part of your work in your business.
• 29:02
  Carly Ries: I love it. Oh, Nicole, I could seriously just talk to you for the rest of the day. I feel like we're just scratching the surface of all the knowledge you have to share. So if people want to know more, where can they find you online, learn more about you, give us all the links?
• 29:16
  Nicole Cramer: Yeah. Find me on Instagram. I hang out there a lot. I am at Nicole Cramer. And if you're looking for some questions to ask to have more successful sales conversations, I will be happy to give you my list of 23 questions. Just come say hi to me on Instagram, send me a DM, and I'll send it right over.
• 29:32
  Carly Ries: I'm doing that right after this.
• 29:34
  Joe Rando: And Cramer is with a c, not a k like the one on Seinfeld.
• 29:37
  Nicole Cramer: Thank you for the reminder. Yes. Everybody always tells us again.
• 29:41
  Carly Ries: Correct. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today. We've had such a great time with you.
• 29:45
  Nicole Cramer: Thanks, guys. This was fun.
• 29:47
  Carly Ries: And listeners, as always, thank you so much for tuning in. Please leave that five star review if you thought the show is just wonderful, which from a completely unbiased opinion, I think it totally was. Thanks to Nicole. Share this episode with another solopreneur that you think could learn from all of this wisdom.
• 30:03
  Don't forget to subscribe to our show on any podcast platform, including YouTube. And we'll see you next time on the Life First Solopreneur. You may be going solo in business, but that doesn't mean you're alone. In fact, millions of people are in your shoes, running a one person business and figuring it out as they go. So why not connect with them and learn from each other's successes and failures?
• 30:26
  At LifeStarr, we're creating a one person business community where you can go to meet and get advice from other solopreneurs. Be sure to join in on the conversations at community.lifestarr.com.