Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Nick Taylor: On Crossing Deserts and Preparing for Adventure

Transcript

Nick Taylor: On Crossing Deserts and Preparing for Adventure · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Durn podcast. I am
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: here for day three of the Overland Expo and Mike
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: mcmaud has been kind enough to let us do the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: podcast here in his earth Roamer. It's a rainy day,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: as it can be oftentimes at Overland Expo, and I
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: am here with Nick Taylor, who's one of the founders
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of seven P Overland formerly seven P International Global Traveler,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: longtime friend, and we're going to talk about the fundamentals
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of overland training, and we're also going to learn a
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: little bit about his life and traveling around the world,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: principally in Northern Africa as well. So thank you Nick
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: so much for being on the podcast.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you Scott, thanks for having me on this beautiful
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: British summers day.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: It feels like.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Home for you to exactly you're actually wearing your Arizona
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: winter gear right now. This is as much as you
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: need and a special thanks to this sponsor, the Medic.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: When you're heading out, you don't want anything to hold
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: you back. Whether you're planning a week long adventure or
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: a quick overnight trip to your favorite outdoor spot, We've
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: got you. CFX three Powered Cooler is Designed with any
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: size adventure in mind, the CFX three allows you to
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: bring more of your favorite food and drink along for
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the ride, no matter how far you plan to go.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Available in multiple sizes, the CFX three is built for
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the demands of outdoor use and comes with a handy
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: app that gives you complete control at your fingertips. It's
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the state of the art, designed for rugged use cooler
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: that you can rely on and enjoy for years to come.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: You know, it always makes me laugh because I think
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: about the number of people from the UK who've literally
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: done first exploring the most remote places of the world.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Is it just because the weather is that bad, or
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: that they are inspired to leave despite the chance of
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: death or what.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's a strong encouragement to go and explore
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: somewhere weather weather might be better, you know. And you
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: know they say, they say the British Empio was really
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: just about the search for.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Good food as well. So perhaps that's pots.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Good food and good weather. Yeah, you know, it's bad
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: when you have to go to Antarctica to get better weather. Yeah.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we do have some we do have some interesting pace. Yeah,
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: I can't complain too.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, we've known each other from I mean close to
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: two decades now, I think, and I mean I remember
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: we went to several land Rover rally events and you
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: were one of the first to have a defender that
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I saw in the United States, and of course I
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: was wide eyed, yeah, to see a green defender ninety
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: bouncing around. And you've had some others as well. You know,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: it's really it's really fun to have you on the podcast,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: just because we've had a lot of shared experiences and
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I've admired your career and your growth within the industry
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: that has been growing so quickly. So let's talk a
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: little bit about how you even got started at this,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Where did you grow up and what were the first
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: insights into that you may travel in the future.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, we've kind of touched on it a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: minute ago with the weather. Yeah, I think you call
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: a Mackham. So I'm from from Sunland. I'm not a Jeordie,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: which will be from Newcastle, right. So I'm from Sunland
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: in the northeast of England. That's where that spent the
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: first part of my life. And you know, it's really
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: a great town. It's not a tourist town or anything
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: like that. It's got some fantastic history, and most importantly,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I think the people there are great. You know, whenever
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I don't go there very often anymore, you know, maybe
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: maybe once a year, obviously not in the past. You
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: haven't been there for almost two years now, as my
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: mother reminds me every day when I speak with her,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that I haven't been there for a while, but I'll
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: be going back soon.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: But as soon as you.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Go back, it feels familiar, you know that everybody chats
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: with each other, strangers say hello, it's a it's a
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: very sort of, very sort of friendly places.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So I do like going back home, and I missed
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: the ability just to walk to the local pub, which
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: of course hasn't changed in decades, probably true since my
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: centuries grandfather's time, they would probably go to the same public.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I like to go home, but it's where
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I live now in Colorado. You know, Colorado being famous
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: for you know, three hundred and twenty days of sunshine
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: a year. I'm pretty sure something has three hundred and
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: twenty days of rainy years. That that kind of encouraged
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: me to to to maybe search for that better weather.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: But also growing up, you know, I was.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I was in the Scouts and the Air Cadets and
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: you know, playing the boys old games, you know, the
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: climbing and you know, we've got some you know, small
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: mountains compared to Colorado, but they there are definitely mountains
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: in character. So a lot of time outdoors and mountain
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: mountain biking and that kind of stuff.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Cousin and I were probably some of the first people
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: have mountain bikes in the UK and maybe eighty six
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: eighty seven where you know, there was no regulation, so
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: we should actually use us. As it says the tennis mountains,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: we rode road actually probably largely pushed over Hell Valen
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: in the Lake district. You know, a bunch of stuff
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: up in up in Weardale, which is the River Valley
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: which comes out in Sunland. So a lot of that
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: kind of out spending a lot of time outdoors as
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: a kid. And I'm a bit of a geek as well,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and those who know me know I'm a bit of
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: a bit of a computer guy. So it worked out
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: well in the window, I suppose, playing on X spectrums
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: and things like that, but that also helped me with
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: another part of my career. So yeah, that's that that
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: was it really so?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: And then what was your what was your first big
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: trip out of the UK.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: The first well, you know, I'd been traveling, you know,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: but as a lot of British.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: People do again good weather, you know, maybe going with
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: your parents in the seventies for me, going to Spain
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: But also you know, there were there were.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Package holidays going to Eastern Europe, which was you know,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: still under the veil of the Iron Curtain at the time,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: and so I went to places like like Bulgaria and Yugoslavia,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: and you know, as you know, as a kid and extplorting,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: you see these these different cultures and different places places
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I just felt so different from being back home. And
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: then of course flying over places where you see these
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: big empty parts of the planet, which you know, I'm
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: sure we'll talk about because they have such an attraction
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: to me. So seeing that kind of stuff, you know
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: that that sort of plundered the seed. And then as
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: then as I got older, you know, as you you know,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: you go to university, you meet different people from different places,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: and then you know, I was lucky enough in my
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: first job loads of travel, you know, loads of loads
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: of European travel, loads of you know, Asia as well,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: and of course the US. But it was you know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I was spoiled as well as the nineties. I was
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: working in investment, banging there's lots of money and that
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I'm an engineer fundamentally, maybe some people call a recovering engineer.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I right now, you know that travel again, you got
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: used to it, seeing different places, but you know, bringing
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: it back to what I did when I was much younger,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: that sort of the backpacking approach, the hiking, just being
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: out and you know, and of course had seen the
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Camel Trophy Vetnews, which I'm sure you've spent a bit
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: of time talking about. You know, I wasn't part of
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: the Camel Trophy, I mean, but a lot of you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: my co founders were, and that spirit there and watching
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: the way that they went a very remote places. The
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: teamwork involved the fact that you could take something mechanical
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: like a like a like a land rover like they
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: did to these so far off the beaten track places.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: So for me, it was an extension of that backpacking
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: and camping that I'd done when I was younger, and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I thought, well, having a vehicle, hey, you can just
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: chuck a load of stuff in that and you don't
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: need to worry too much about it, and you go
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: into all these places much further.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: So it was about range and all that stuff. And
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: of course I did it.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Wrong when I started with all of us with too
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: much stuff and all that kind of thing, but you know,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you live and learn. But it was but that's kind
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: of how I got into that. And of course it
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: had to land rovers for me, right because you know,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: if you if you grew up in the UK in
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the seventies eighties, actually all these fifty sixties, seventies eighties,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: you know, all those formative experiences you have as a kid,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you know, and being in the Scouts, you know, twelve
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: of us chucked in the back of a of a krubus,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: you know, with the bench seating along and you know,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: rattled around in the back of an old land rover.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Many of us first vehicle we drove, apart from maybe
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: a tractor.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: Was going to be an old land rover. The emotional
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: attachment to land rovers is there, and it's still it's
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: still strong.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, you talk to the guys, you know it's
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: you know, it's still there. It's definitely an emotional not
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: a logical relationship.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: No, Yeah, yeah, it's it's sometimes it's a dysfunctional relationship,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: as I've found can be.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, you know the n idea that
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: you mentioned, I've had a long time, I've got I've
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: got a bunch of defenders as well as the land
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: rovers because it's it's a disease clearly, but having you know,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: having a having a vehicle, and a lot of a
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: lot of Overlanders do. There's a lot of people have
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: those vehicles for a long time, and you know, when
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you've owned some them for ten twenty years, it's not
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: just a car anymore, right, Yeah, it's it's something you
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: know that again, that emotional atta, it's more like a pet,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: right that you that you have conversations with it you
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: and you know you you kind of treated you get
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: all the I'm not superstitions by a nature, but there's
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: a few superstitions around around the trucks, you know. So
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: but yeah, you develop those relationships with the with the vehicle,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: which is strange.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Unexpected, and what which one's been your favorite?
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: It's a hard case. You can't hear which what is
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: your favorite?
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they can't hear you right now, you know.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's it's probably going to be the green,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: the Green ninety because I've just just had that what
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: feels like forever, and you know, it's it's been a
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: lot of places with me, and it's you know, it's
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: always got me home, you know. I mean, obviously, you know,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: you want a vehicle for twenty odd years, and it's
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: going to be it's going to be mechanical issues, you know.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And it was an ex farmer's card from a place
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: called Hexham near then, and for years I was pulling
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: sheep hair out of the back.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: But I think that's that that phase has passed.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: But you know, again, it's just just it's just the
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: stories you can tell together, the photographs you have.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Is it a two hundred TV or that's it's now
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: it's now three hundred TV? Is sure?
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: It's engines have got abou one hundred and fifty thousand
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: miles in it right now, so it's really not that high.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: For that kind of no, no, But but it's been
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: a good trip.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: It's a little slow by modern standards, a little clattery
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: and clanky by modern standards, but then again, you know,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: it's emp proof and it's uh it is. You can
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: push start it and you all you need is a
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: few vaults to the fuel, cut a solenoid and it'll go.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And I hope it will out lost me, so somebody
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: after I'm long gone, hopefully we'll have that vehicle.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: That is what I love about the three hundred TDI
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I remember I had crossed the Andes into Argentina. We
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: were coming into Mendoza and I shut off the one
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: ten that I was driving, and it wouldn't I mean,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: it would turn over, but it wouldn't restart. And I remembered,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like it was it was probably Graham that told Graham,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: you know, Graham Jackson that told me this. He's like Scott,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: it only needs a nine volt battery to run. It's
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: got to open the fuel solenoid. I'm thinking, there's only
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: one thing that this car needs to run. So I
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: got under the hood and I'm looking around, and of
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: course the one blade connector to that fuel solenoid had
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: rattled off in going over the andies and all the corrugations.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I plugged it back on, fired right up again, and
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: it was fine for the rest of the trip. So
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you know, there is there's a lot to be said
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: about the simplicity of those vehicles. They may the blinkers
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: may stop working, or there may be little things that happen,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: maybe the fan blower cuts out on you or whatever,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: but they do tend to get you home. And that's
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: been that's been my experience for sure. And I also wonder,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I wonder if there isn't actually an advantage to the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: adventurer to drive a vehicle that isn't always so reliable.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, because I think back on the most favorite
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: times that I've had traveling, and it's usually when something's
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: gone wrong. So I think about like Ray Hyland and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: his trip with his family, you know, across what was
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: the original first overland route in a nineteen fifties land
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Rover Series truck and like making gaskets out of people's
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: leather hats and stuff.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: We have that conversation.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: So it's so fantastic. Yeah, it's so fantastic. So I
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: actually wonder if there's if there's really any fundamental advantage
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to reliability other than if you're doing it for work,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: like if you've got to get somewhere or you've got
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: your family with you, and maybe you're anxious about them
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: having a good experience or whatever. I don't know that
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: for the adventure. There's actually a whole lot of advantage to.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: That, I think with what we've noticed, you know.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: So I remember a time in Morocco where they were
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: a European group with a bunch of brand new, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: four by four vehicles, and Morocco, if you're not ready
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: for it, can be a little bit crazy.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of people there.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: They're very you know, but you're you're the most exciting
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: thing that's happened to them that day, particularly in the
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: rural south, and and this group came through and they
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: looked like they looked terrified.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: You know, they wouldn't wind their windows down.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: They were sitting there in their clean cabs, you know,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: in their in their their HVAC sealed environment. The noise
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: from outside wasn't a part of it. So they weren't They
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: were instead of Morocco, which is awesome, but they weren't
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: part of it. They weren't really having an experience. And
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: you know, I think actually it was Graham and I
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: who were there on motorcycles, and when you're when you're
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: on motorcycles, you were a solo motorcycle rider, and we
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: know there's a lot of them here. You know, they
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: were really that first wave of overlanding in the US.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think people are traving around the world and motorcycles
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: you've got to rely on people.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: You can't do it by yourself.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: So you you have these these kind of forced engagements
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: with with people who have so different backgrounds, different languages,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: different cultures, you know, and we need more of that,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I think, given the.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Way the world is at the moment.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I agree, you know that kind.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Of engagement, but as a as a solo motorcyclist, you
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: need a turn of that because you know, you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: you have that that hard week, not just day hard week,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: and then you drop your bike for the what feels
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: like the thousandth time, and you're like done, and then
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: you know it's friendly locals and A and A and
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: a very overloaded old trug will come along and they'll
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: help you know, You'll you'll get some tea and you'll
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: get some food, and I'll pick up your bike and
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: they'll see ask where you're going. You know, So that
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing you were talking about, that adventure
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: quite naturally unrolls, right, it does if you if you're
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: in a you know, if you're in a in a
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: brand new vehicle with the windows up and you're not
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: talking to the locals, you're experiencing it.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: You're not you're not being You're there, but you're.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Not really there. You're almost like watching a movie in
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: a way. You're more like a spectator instead of a participant.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And on a motorcycle, you can only carry so much food,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: you can only carry so much fuel, you can only
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: carry so much water, so you are very much dependent
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: on those small little villages along the way to find
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: those supplies. So you got to ask questions and find
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: out who's got that five gallon jerry can in their
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: hut to give you some fuel, and that, to me,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: those are the best memories that I've had, was those
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: moments when I needed to rely on others to help
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: me get through a problem. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: I wonder that reliability thing. I think it makes sense though.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: When I first started overlanding, I had so much equipment
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: with me, and I was so concerned about my ability
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: to solve any of the problems that I might encounter
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: that I tried to stack the deck by driving hyper
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: reliable vehicles. Like an a Zuzu Trooper or a Toyota
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and bringing all of the things I thought
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I could ever need with me. And with time, I
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: think the motorcycle has probably been the best teacher for
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: me because you simply can't bring that much along with
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you and you do have to rely on the locals.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And owning a KTM taught me about unreliable vehicles, so
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you start to figure it out, you make a plan.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah it's and that little bit of unreliable.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Then they also thinking about well what spares when they
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: did it, wanted to bring in what tours and week
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: we see folks, you know, new folks at the training
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: area here at the Overland Expo. Their minds are blown
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: but blown by you know, we can talk about the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: mechanical things, talk about fixing things, and I have to
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: remind them, you know, we weren't born with this knowledge. We
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: have been where you have been, All of us have
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: been where they have been, you know, being that new
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and in fact, I'm kind of a bit jealous sometimes
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: because I know the journey that they're about to go on,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: and it's a fun journey, you know, twenty thirty years
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: of that it's it's it's it's it's really exciting. And today,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: you know, we've got some amazing vehicles around. You know,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: we've got everything that you know, the Jeeps are always
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: just great. We've got things like the new Defender of
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: the opposite and of the scale sort of technology wise,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: maybe the Broncos somewhere in the middle, and then you know,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: these are all these other platforms, bigger vehicles. I think
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: it's a fantastic town. It really is, and it probably
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: is the internal combustions ends and last gasp anyway, it
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: might be the right metaphor use, you know. But you know,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: as we're going to see more hybrids and electric and
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: you know, some of these vehicles. The thing, the vehicles
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: that I love, you know, they probably not going to
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: be politically correct in another three four five decades or
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: maybe even sooner.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: So so driving hydrogen powered grenadiers soon.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll take that for sure. I'll take I'll I'll
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: absolutely take that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: And I love the idea of electric vehicle, which is
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: probably going right off topic here, but you were driven
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: motor to each wheel. Yeah, you know, when when the
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: when the software is reliable enough that there's no reason
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: it shouldn't be.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: You know, they're gonna be a They're gonna be a
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: lot of fun off road.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: There's a lot less complexity actually with an electric vehicle
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: than there is with an internal combustion, So that time
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: will come. We'll all resist it. They'll be screaming and
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: gnashing of teeth, but eventually they'll figure it out and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: hydrogen will of course solve the range issue, and then
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: that'll be that'll be a very interesting solution. I think
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: that there is there's a privilege to being a rookie,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: and and I think it's unfortunate that people that are
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: new to overlanding are afraid to say that they don't
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: know something, or that they that they have a question,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: or that they don't have the experience that they may
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: see someone else represent on Instagram, probably not accurately, but
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I actually think there's a privilege to being a rookie.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I think about my recent sailing experience, and I knew nothing.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I mean I knew less than nothing, and I left
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: knowing nothing because there was what I found was the
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: further that I got away from land, the deeper the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: ocean got, the deeper the well of knowledges that I
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: need to obtain to actually be a true captain of
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: a sailboat. And even a month of doing it, I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: didn't even scratch the surface. And I felt privileged to
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: be in that spot, to be able to learn and
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: to learn so quickly and so many new things and
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: all these new experiences. So for those that are listening
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: when you're getting started with overlanding, take privilege in being
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: new to this activity. There's so many amazing things to
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: learn and all these new experiences. And that's why we
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: have people like Nick on the podcast because of what
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you do with seven P overland is you give people
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: that are new to this activity the opportunity to learn
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: so much from So you guys have done this combined
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: experience hundreds of years.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I'm assuming something like that.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's incredible.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all mostly dunk though, as we.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Say, yeah, that's that's so. That's so incredible. So talk
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: to us about your first trips into Northern Africa.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so North Africa was an obvious place for me
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: to go, just head south, you know. So so it
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: gets go head south where it gets better. Going from
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: what feels like one of the wettest places and it
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: isn't really one of the wetest places on the planet
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: just feels like it to somewhere that's the opposite, somewhere
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: somewhere dry and somewhere adventurous and exotic, somewhere where the
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: culture is different, people if and all that sort of thing.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: So the obviously we call it now Morocco's Saharawana one.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: That's a great place to start that that sort of
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: that sort of adventure, that's journey, it's it's.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: A it's a safe place, you know.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I know, particularly in the US, which doesn't really get
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: too much of what I would call well balanced international news.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: You know, people come along with preconceived idea of what
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: it's like in North Africa or the Middle East, or
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Iran or wherever. In my experience of traveling with those
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: countries probably look like yours is the reality is very
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: different from what we're what our opinion has told, you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: the opinion that we're told to have about those places,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: very very different.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Some of the friends that we see the properly Yeah,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I think I think that's probably the right word for it.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, because I've never been on the receiving end of
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: so much friendliness and hospitality as I have in places
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: like Sudan, Iran and Libya, and you know, and I
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: know those very countries you can almost feel I don't
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: even wonder what the right word is, but the apprehension
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: that people automatically feel when they hear those words because
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: they come with so much baggage now and of course
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: they have they have issues with their with their governments.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, we all have issues with their governments. And
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I'm both British and American, so I have the joy
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: of having issues with both of my governments. They you know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: it's just it's just not the reality on the ground,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: and these places are wonderful. So back to Morocco, a
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: great place because yeah, it's a bit crazy, it's a
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: bit chaotic. You know, you're in Africa when you get there,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: but there's nothing that beats that feeling. So we had cars.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: It was a small group. We had cars. There was
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: an organized tree. Actually the idea for us was to
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: learn the ropes and part of an organized trip. I
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: think we could because we were our twenties thing, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: we could learn all about that, our early twenties thing.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: We could learn everything because you know, when you're when
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: you're a young man, who's maybe twenty two. Yeah, of
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: course I can learn everything like that, and I'll know
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: everything in three weeks. And of course the older you get,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the less you really understand, right, So.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: That Dunning Kruger effect comes back to buy it exactly.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, really it really does.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So it's a long arc it is, you know, the
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: older I get that obviously, the less I realized that
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: So.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: But that's why, that's why this stuff's fun, but especially teaching.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: But I'm sure we'll talk about that too. But but
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: but that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I remember that day, this thing because it was beautiful.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: We had a lovely drive down through you know, we
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: basically got the furry from from the UK to Spain
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: and then there's really really lazy s down through Spain
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and Portugal, you know, I guess, you know, drink of
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: their beer and eating their food and seeing all the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: touristy things because you know, in one of the things
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I miss about living in Europe is the fact that
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: things change so very quickly. You know, you can literally
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: be on a on a on a flight less than
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: an hour and languages changed, money has changed, all that
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Have you been to West Virginia?
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I have been and I, you know, I sometimes feel
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: like I haven't explored enough. Being in twenty years.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Does change a lot. Actually, I think a lot of
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: British Europeans think it doesn't. But the US has a
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: lot of culture, has a lot of history.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: It's it's just.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's not in your face like the buildings you
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: see or the shramids or all of that stuff.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: But the US certainly does. And I still need to
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: explore a bit more.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: But that that feeling of being on the lazy journey
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: through Spain and then the excitement of a group loading
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: under the fury. So you're in the docks in Algeciras,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's crazy. It's it's starting to get
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: crazy because there's a little bit of Africa there, right.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: You know, there's folks who live in Morocco where they're
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: where they're in there. They're very very small car of
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Ford VSA and money, and they have stuff piled on
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: the roof to three car heights of stuff. You know
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: that those those plastic bags and bungeies, and and you
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: know that there's smoking cigarettes that you can't buy in
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Europe so they smell differently and all these so already
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: and you're still in Spain, you still in Europe. The
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: whole atmosphere has changed, and so so you remember that,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you know, you remember the sites and smells, and then
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: you get on there. And then when you're on the
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: furry and it doesn't take long, right, but then you
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: can see the coast of Africa. You know, oh this
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: is we go to Africa and appen, what a way
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to arrive in Africa on a boat. So you can
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: see it looming in the distance, getting bigger and bigger,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: and the excitements building. And then you then you roll
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: off the furry and you really know you're not in
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Europe anymore, you know. I mean the port Tangi has
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: got a lot better in the last few years. You know,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: they built a new port. Actually some of that craziness.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I didn't fortune the air that Tanga med is the
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: is the main port there now it's a little bit
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: out of the city center.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the one I went into is just right
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: you right into the city.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: You're here. Yeah, that was awesome. We welcome to Welcome
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: to what feels like medieval Morocco. But it's changed a
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: little bit so but still it's it's kind of a
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: full on experience. You know, you you you know you're
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: somewhere different and you know you don't you know because
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: you know, being English by default, we don't really believe
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: that the languages exist and we just expect everybody should
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: speak English, right, so you don't know the language and
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: they you know, the paperworkers in Arabic and French. You know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: for your convenience, how do you fill that in?
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: What do you do?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: So finding a fixer and the people people keeping up
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: to you, you're almost pretending to be officials, and how
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: do you how do you fill in that paper? It's
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: an exciting day, sort of a high stress day, you know,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: it's different. And then and then after hours usually is
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: hours after hours, you know you've got the documentation toward,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: got your insurance change, some money and now you're off.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: You know. Now now you're off.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Into Morocco, which there's a lot of people living, especially
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: the north of Morocco, and it's it's it's not a
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: desert country in the in the in the north at all.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: You know, it's very green.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: A lot of the produce sold in Europe and the
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: UK is is grown in Morocco. So you see the
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: farms and all that stuff, but you still know you're
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: somewhere else. The let's put it this way, it's a
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: different driving style that you might be used to. You've
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: certainly got a bit more a bit more of a
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: defensive drive on there. But that's one of the things
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: about travel. I love the different styles of driving, you know,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: it's it's the chaos, you know that. And and some
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: guys that will give you the thumbs up, the young guys,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: and you know, they've got a vehicle that was a
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: European hand me down on its sixteenth owner, and of
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: course they want to race, so you'll get into that
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff. And the course of a big, heavily loaded,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: underpowered land rovers the ideal race car. But it's just
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: part of that fun. And people want to talk about
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the vehicles because they're very unusual. But so you this
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: interaction all the time, you know, and and find a
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: place to stay and it's different and people pussing over you.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: And but what I really like, you know, what what
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I was there for was to get into the desert.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: So you go south, you go of the mountains twice,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: you know, stay in the cedar forest, which is an
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: awesome place. Lily freezing cold usually, but in Morocco don't
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: know that. Yeah, absolutely, there's there's big mountains in Morocco,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: so it is cold in those mountains, you know. And
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: then then that during the day you're getting lower, it's
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: getting hotterer, and that you can see the landscape changing.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: You know, it's it's almost like, well it is.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: It's almost like when you drive down the western slope
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: of color Colorado and you stay on I seventy and
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: it changes.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: The changes.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: You know that the mountains turns and turned into mass
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you know, the trees give way to sand and dirt,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and then the geology changes, and it's just like that.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: As you head south in the Morocco you know, you
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: know you're in a desert and you know you're you're
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: in the outer reaches of something big, you know, the
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: saharas the size of the continental US. And as you
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: as you know, cross that boundary, you know, I get
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: really excited. Now still you know, you can tell them
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about soon we'll be able to go back,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: you know. And and but Morocco it'll give you that,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: and you know that the people in the south are
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: different from the people in the north. Still super friendly
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: but there's just a lot of people that they're almost
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: aggressively friendly, and you know, it does wek to be honest,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: it does wear on you a little bit sometimes, you know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: when you're part of my idea really to go into
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: the desert was to seek a bit of solitude some
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: you know, some you know, introspection and and you know,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: not not quite you know, sitting on top of a
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: mountain for six months as a hermit. But you know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: just to sit on top of a sand dune.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: That doesn't sound like such a bad idea either.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Really, I wouldn't have many people are around us right
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: now that well, I'm pretty sure I know some of
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: them are having that idea right now, but we are
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: in quite a busy place. But you know, it's just
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: it's it's just that being out there and being in
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: a different environment is it's so refreshing as well, you know, in.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: My heart as well.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I'm a driver, so I like I like it when
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: we get to that more technical terrain. You know, I'm
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: not the world's best off for a drive, you know,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: and I've learned a few things, but just to just
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: to be out that with a technical challenge, you know,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: I like you know, an underpowered turbo diesel engine with
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: a manual transmission. Because you're driving that car.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: You know, you know earning that car. You are earning
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: every kilometer absolutely.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: And when you and when at the end of the day,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: you know, we had a you know, traveling with grain.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: We're a Mauritan here a couple of years ago and
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: we're driving heavy, underpowered manual diesel trucks and we had
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: we had a day. It was it was mostly sand dunes.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: It was just an incredible day. Nobody else out there.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Quite a bit of winching we do.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: We do.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: We do some special sort of fast winching techniques for
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: when we get stuck in the stuck in the sand.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: But we came out of that.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: We came out that day and we looked at each
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: other and we were smiling and we were exhausted. We
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: were like, it's one of the best days driving I've
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: ever had, you know, and just it was just so engaging,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: you know, and that that is that's the Big Sahara
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: in Mauritane. You get into the into the rest of
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: North Africa, but Morocco gives you a flavor of that.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: You know, you can actually stay in a nice hotel
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: and then and then do some dune driving, right, and
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: then you can, oh, you could stay in in a
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: in an old burge, which is a you know, it's
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a traditional hostel, one of a better word,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: where you know, there'll be rooms, there might be doorrooms,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: private rooms, they'll cook for you. Family owned. It's not
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: a you know, it's it's not a you know, it's
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: not a Hilton or a Sheridan. It's a family owned,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: very very simple place. But they're great too because there's
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: more of that interaction, you know, and.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: That's what I found. Or even the if you can
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: get into the Toregg camps, Yeah, a little bit out
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: in the desert.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so that the camps of the desert are great
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: as well. Of course they they kind of you know,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: they're very industrious. You know that the Moroccan folks, they
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: understand how a market works, they understand capitalism. Right, just
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: because they live in the desert doesn't mean they're not
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: part of the twenty first century. And so yeah, you
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: can pay to stay at one of these camps. They
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: run it professionally. You know, they have chefs, they make
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: great food. You know, of course there's going to be
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: camel rides, and you know, and and you know, Muhammad's
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: brother has the best carpets and all of that.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: So if you want to go, if you want to
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: go down that route.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: And his other brother has all of the meteor rightes
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that have landed out there.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: That's probably right.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: The number of people who tried to sell me meteorites
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: in roc Now is your your favorite place in Morocco?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Is it more food in the north or do you
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: prefer Mhammad in the south?
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: What's your Yeah, I know when you're roll into Mohammad,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you're going to have a good time because you're in
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: the you're in the desert, you know, so I like it.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: The weather's which range right, Yeah, you know, it's it's
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: just yeah, there's just something good good.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: It's changing rapidly though, of course.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: You know that a lot of the roads that we
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: drove years ago were five years ago were tracks, very
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: indistinct tracks, easy to get lost as you go through
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the villages. Now they've the asphalts down, they're all tarmacs.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: It's changing, you know, And and you know, part of
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the thing it is selfish thought, isn't it. Oh, just
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: leave it the same it's wonderful, it's beautiful. It's fun
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: of because people live there and you know, they would
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: rather have a road where it takes them ten minutes
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: to get groceries and you know half a day, you know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: on a horrible road. That's damage in the truck that
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I have, which which cost me a lot of my
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: money to keep running.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: So it's better for them, of course it is.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: It's process and it just feels, you know, sometimes it's
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: selfishly it would be nice to have with the old.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: But then again, there are still places like that.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: There is still place to word a little harder to
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: find them.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: So now tell me about I mean, Morocco is such
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a great place for people to go. There's a lot
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: of vehicle higher opportunities there. There are guides in Morocco
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: where you can get access to vehicles outside of Morocco.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: What is your favorite place in Northern Africa? And tell me,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: maybe tell us some adventures that you've had that stand
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: out in your mind.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: It's another one of those what's your favorite child type
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of questions, isn't it? But but I guess the countries
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: aren't going to care too much about about the answer,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: So as you graduate from Morocco and you've spent some
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: time in the desert, and again Morocco's Africa. Africa is
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: a place that's impossible to go only once, you know.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: And it's a huge continent. As I said earlier, the
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Sahara itself is the size of the continent in the US.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: The whole continent is huge, and a lot of people
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: spend months, if not years, traveling around and seeing everything
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: that is to see it, and it changes, of course.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: But sticking with North Africa, Wow, you've got such a range.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I like Mauritania. Mauritania is a bit off the beaten
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: path right now. They haven't decided that you need to
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: travel with a guide or fill in you know, have
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: impossible permits and that kind of stuff to get so
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: it's still quite easy to do that. And some of
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: the locals there who know some fantastic routes and the
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: perhaps in the more to the east as you get
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: towards Marley, and there's some phenomenal roots out there as well.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: We've we've scratched the surface, only merely scratched the surface
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: of doing regulars to that part of the world, you know.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: So folks are interested in the big, the big sand
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: driving and staying in very remote locations. That that's the
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: place of Mauritania. I really like it's relatively easy to
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: get to too. You know, the way that we would
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: run a trip there is flying to Wada in the summer.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: There's there's direct flights from Paris, so you could be
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: having a lovely meal the night before you are thrown
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: into the chaos of Evatar in Mauritania. In many ways
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it feels like Morocco did twenty years ago.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So so then you're in Mauritania and you know you're
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: in Mauritania, but there's there's some great routes easy just
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the geology. There's museums in air quotes where they're basically
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: somebody's built a wooden shed, but they've got a bunch
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: of artifacts, you know, like ostrich eggs or you know,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: equipment for for the big camel trains that would that
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: would you know, go to timbuktoo back in the day,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: you know, carrying carrying salt spices in in one direction
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: or the other, which is a thing that's been gone
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: for thousands of years. And we've been lucky enough to
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: come across some huge camel trains as well, hundreds of
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: animals still doing what they did, and it's a it's
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: an amazing sight because you really feel like you're looking
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: at history from that point. And again, one of those
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: unexpected things is not like there's a schedule, you know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: it's not it's not like you, you know, paid for
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: a ticket and on at seven o'clock on a Friday,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: they're going to be there. It's just that one of
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: those things you accidentally stumble across with this kind of travel,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: which which you know, sticks with you. So Mauritania is
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: phenomenal and still easy and safe to easily get to
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: and safe to go to right now as.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: You move, you know, through through North Africa, Algeria.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I haven't spent much time in Algeria, but but the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: but the south of Algeria again in the big desert,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: is phenomenal.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Some of some of the the images that I've seen
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: from Tom Shepherd come out of that. There's something about
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Aluria there. I mean, the only time I spent in
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Algeria was when I accidentally crossed into Algeria and it
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: was lost. So that was the full extent of my
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Algerian experience. But fortunately I was able to get back
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: across the border with that much incident. But yeah, but yeah,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: that was that was amazing. But Algeria looks incredible.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Algeria, you know, it's Tom's favorite country. Tom Shepbard,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: of course, you know the guy who wrote the really
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: the Overlanders Bible, the Expedition Driver's Bible, the vd EGG
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide. But he also has another book
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: because again in his heart he's a photographer and it's
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: as you know, you know, his photos are incredible. So
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: the book he wrote, Quiet for a Tuesday is a
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: is a lovely coffee table book full of instible imagery
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: from Algeria. And you know that that area in the south,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: the Tasan roofed, a very remote area, difficulty, not nelessly difficult,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: but very time consuming to get due with a vehicle,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and the images of his book. Just just look at
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: his book, you'll want to go. And Algeria is one
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: of those cries where you do need a guide. But
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: actually it's quite good because one is they know where
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: the wells are, which is important. You know, obviously they
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: know some of they know some of the roots. If
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: anything happens, you know, they know how to deal with it,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: you know. And and the best, the best guides. And
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: there's a there's a chap funny enough of Muhammad, seriously.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: He guide there.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: He is awesome. He was He's worked on both sides
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: of the law. I think I suspect, but now he
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: works with the government, he works with.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: The tourist agencies.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: But he knows all the contacts on the around that
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: lurry line of what's legal and what's perhaps not. But
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: that's really that's the kind of guy you want, you know, somebody,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: because sometimes I think we forget in the West that
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: that is, that's a lot of line, and you make
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: a very conscious decision across that line, or not very
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: conscious and not it's very black and white to us.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: You know, the law is the law, not so much
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: in the parts of the world. You know, there's a
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: there's a bit of blurriness around that. And and people
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: who understand how both sides of that work, because they're
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: both worlds that work in particular ways. And when those
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: guides your guides, you really have nothing to worry about.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: You don't have to worry about the authorities who can
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: make your life miserable. You don't have to worry about
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: the bandits who can make your life miserable. You know,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: none of that stuff is anything to worry about when
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: you've got someone like that. So sometimes traveling with a
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: guy is especially one like that, is is a good idea. Absolutely,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: it's a good idea. Yeah, it doesn't take away from
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the trip. Oftentimes it adds to it because they can
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: translate for you, they can introduce you to people, You
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: can get people's stories that you wouldn't be able to
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: get otherwise. Yeah, yeah, it's and you know in in well,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: right next door to Algeria is Libya very difficult to
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: travel to now, you know, with with the human traffic
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: elements and the not quite settled status of the government.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Probably it'll come back, it'll take a I think it'll
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: take a long time to come back. But but but
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Libya was one of my favorites. It's just it's just
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: big desert. It's just big desert. And the Libyans are
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: not really a desert people, not like the Algerians. You
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: know that they like the coast, you know that, the
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Mediterranean coast, So as you get into the deep desert there,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: it's a really different experience. It's like, it's like Moab,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: but when Moab grows up, it's it's just it's when Moab,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: by the way, is one of my favorite places on
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: the world too, that that whole area in Utah, but
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: there in that, in that in that border area against Algeria,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Nizieu and and Libya. Man, if you like the desert,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: that's where you've got to find a way of going.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: You know, we know some.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: People who who've crossed that border really really difficult and
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: potentially a bit risky for a Westerner right now, but
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: we know quite a quite a ballsy young lady who's
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: American lady who's done done some of that stuff as well.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And you know that shows you that you can do
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: these kinds of things, and you can, you know, if
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: you you've got you've got to know how to do
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the risk assessments right, You've got to you've got to
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: understand what you could potentially get into. Not like really
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: most places you don't need to bother too much about that,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: but but Libya in particular right now is a place
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: you've got to be a little bit careful to pay attention,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: have to pay attention, so it's not impossible to go there,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: but maybe my beard would have to be a little
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: bit larger. I mean, I'm needing a few more days
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: out in the sun, you know, to to pass for that.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: But it's such an incredible place, you know, it's it's
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: it's definitely you start thinking's so good.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there isn't there a lot of antiquity along
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: the coast there as well?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure that you you Libya would be I'd
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: love to run trips there again, don't think it's going
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: to happen for a long time. But but you know,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: there's there's Roman North Africa, so there's load loads of
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: history there. There's the there's the sort of prehist or
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: ex side. You know, we were again working with good guides.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: They can chow use things like the rock art from
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: only only a few thousand years old, as I found
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: out after i'd seen it with giraffes and elephants and
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: hippos in the middle of the Sahara, in the middle
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: of the Sahara from only a few thousand years ago,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: which is things have changed, things have changed, you know,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: so and I would have liked to have seen that.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And there are still things there are still you know,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: there's still elephants in marley if you want to go
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: and find them again. Desertifications an issue, but you know
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: we've got we've got issue, the environmental issues everywhere, right. So,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: but the change, the changes is, you know, you can
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: almost feel it, you almost feel it. But once you're
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: out into the into the big Sahara, it's it feels
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: like it's pretty dead actually a very fragile and delicate ecosystem.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: If you look closely, that change is astonishing. From this
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: lush area, it must have been to this very dry
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: and desolate place that it is now. But on the
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: other hand, sometimes desolate places and magical places too.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a special thanks to red Art supporting this
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: week's podcast. Red arcs toe pro Elite brake controller has
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: been torture tested in the Australian Outback. The dash mounted
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: head unit allows you to switch between proportional for the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: highway and user controlled for the trails. You may not
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: trust the terrain that you're on, but you can always
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: trust red arcs toe pro Elite toe with confidence by
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: visiting red arc Electronics dot com. There's a couple places
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: that I've been interested in going to have you been
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: to Djibouti. No, yeah, that one sounds really Eritrea no, no,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I know, they're both really interesting to me right now.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a we have a couple of routes
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: that we've not probably record sketched out.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Let's say, be quiet, serie.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: They we've we've had, you know, so there are some
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: good So Somalia of course is place that people think
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: as off limits. But Somali Land, which you know, Somalia
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: is this inverted l around the Horn of Africa. Somali
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Land is that horizontal strip at the top they there
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: embassy in London is brilliant. It's like it's like being
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: in somebody's terraced house. Very small, super friendly folks, very
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: excited for people to visit. Smiley Lands. Not a recognized state,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: you know, and by sort of U N standards, But
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: still the right thing to do is to is to
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: do the paperwork and go there. And yeah, I got
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I got halfway along that journey and something cropped up
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: and I didn't execute unfortunately. But that area, Djibouti and
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Eritrea not far away as well. You know, they've they've
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: clearly got some disagreements with Ethiopia. But Ethiopia as well,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: and another place like that part of the world. I
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: haven't spent much time, but but i'd certainly i'd certainly
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: like to. Of course as you just as you hop
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: a bit further to the east as you get into
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: the Arabian spent quite a bit of time there.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: And how about Egypt? Have you explored their mind?
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Egypt?
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Egypt is again different obviously what do you think of
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: when you when you when you think of Egypt all
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: of that stuff which you are very touristy, but really
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I must see again I was looking to work with
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: a good guy there.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: We actually when when when we went to Egypt.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: The trip that we did is we flew in the
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: car tube in Sudan and and drove to Carra, So
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: we had doing to Cairo in one hundred serieslan.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: Cruises for most of it.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a bit of train as well, So sure, I know,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I dont folks think I'm a bit of a luandrover guy.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: But as I said, you know, mostly touched it. But
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: I've spent I've done a lot of miles in in
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: in one hundred series land.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Cruise and the right tool for the job.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so white ones usually right do they make any
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: other color than you know, and they certainly don't sell
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: them in Africa if they do so, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: And you know as we as we you know, Egypt
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: sit down to Egypt phenomenal, you know, you cross at
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: the time, you'd use the you'd use the boat. You
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: spend a bit of time in Wadi Halfa, and then
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: you'd get the boat over to over into Egypt across
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: the border and then you know, trains or whatever to
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: get to to get the car.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I was just in like a fun way to do it.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: It looks like the desert is is like if you
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: were to look at Algeria on the western side and
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Egypt on the other side. They're both connected in many ways,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: but are they look so different as your experience with
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: traveling the deserts.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: And you know the travel you know each to north
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: south country right because of the Nile, and you know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: everything is influenced by the Nile in Egypt in the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: modern world. And it's it's strange to see this this
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: this this blue and green thing snaking through the desert.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: You know, but all the life is around is around
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: the Nile in Egypt very much. That's the country. As
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: you go west, it's it changes right in the western desert.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: So but for me, I I you know, I'm a tourist, right,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I had seen the pyramids was important, you know, going
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: to the going to the Natural History Museum in Piro.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: You know, there there's a lot, there's a lot of
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of history there. There's a lot of history there.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: And again experiencing it with with people who who have
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: clearly descended from from those folks and they know their
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: history again a very different experience because you feel like
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: you're a part of it. It becomes to life that I
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: was lucky enough actually too. There's some smaller pyramids further
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: south that the usual the usual suspects you know in Gaza,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: so just a bit bit further south. And I was
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: lucky enough to be in a fairly large pyramid by myself,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: which was one of the most eerie experiences I've I had,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: you know, being in someone's tomb by yourself, and that
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I remember the smell, I remember the temperature
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: because it was blazingly hot outside and you know cool
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: in here like a cave. But you know, when you
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: think about what went into that, why wasn't built, and
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: how it was built. And again you know, to be
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: able to touch those those cold rocks on the side
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: is by yourself and this experience with just a little.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Flashlight very eerie. But but on the other hand, it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Know, it connects you with the past, which is which
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: is amazing actually, so it's a great experiences in Egypt.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the greatest civilizations in history.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean the.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Fact that they could that they could, that they can
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: muster the effort to of course discounting the whole alien theory,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: but which we'll do.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: That big so I know really what that's about.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: But the amount of effort it would take to construct
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: those it was, and it would take it. It would take
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: a very wealthy, powerful nation to do that.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: And one of the modern theories is that that we've
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: thought there were slaves, but one of the more modern
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: theory is it's been proposed that they weren't, that they
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: were paid workers to do that, which logistically, you know,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: having run some big teams in my career, yeah, that's
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: that's impressive. And they must have had an impressive management structure,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: and you know, the meetings must have been great, and
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I bet they went through a lot of powerpoints.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Everyone, not another meeting. I'm just trying to get this
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: done in the next hundred years. Oh that's incredible, But
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: maybe that's why they took a lot of the building.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: It was all the bloody meetings. Yeah, that's right, that's right.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: We know it, Yeah, we know it.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: That just sounds like an incredible area. I have not
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: been to Egypt either, and I'm so excited to go.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you must do the touristy things because they
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: are I want to and it's fun, but you can,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: you can explore, and you know, going to south into
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Sadana is phenomenal. To more more pyramids in Sadan than Egypt,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: but not very well traveled and Saddan for me, I
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: just remember people were trying to feed me all the time.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: It couldn't stop.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: You know, you start to have a conversation with folks,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: you know, in the in two different languages, and you
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: know it's it's come, come, you know, come and do this,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, these plates of all
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: the food are just brought out and it's like another meal,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: another male and it feels very rude not to but
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: they're very curious about you. You know, they saidan really
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't see a lot of Western tourists, very few Americans,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: you know, so so they treat you exceptionally. Well, they're
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: very excited to hear about you know, a lot of
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: people aspire to to you know, America's values and the lifestyle.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: So when Americans are there, they're fascinated.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: You know, if I travel on my British passport, they're
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: just not interested. When they hear live in America, then
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: they're interested. Yeah, so it's it's it's curious, but exceptionally.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: They want to know if you know, Kanye isn't I
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: remember going into South Sudan from the Uganda side and
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and yeah, they were very they were totally fascinated by
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: the fact that we were there. Why would you want
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: to be here? And I would tell them because your
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: country is it's beautiful, and I'm so excited to be here.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: And they just felt really proud that we wanted to
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: be there. And and that's such an import thing to
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: remember when we travel is first off, we're a guest
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: in their country, so we need to They may have
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: beliefs and values and ethics and ways of living that
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: are different than ours, but we need to honor all
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: of those. And that's the reason why I don't wear
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: shorts when I'm in certain countries, because it's actually very
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: disrespectful for me to do that, and it's our responsibility
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: to understand their their local you know, ways of living.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not only a'll we guests in that country. We're
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: on busses for our own, you know, so we don't
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: want to make a bad impression. Americans are strange creatures
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: in these parts of the world. Not many Americans travel
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: to those The Americans you meet in these parts of
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: the world are exceptional Americans. I think that people who've
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: got tons of stories, who are well traveled, they have
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: you know, they can hold opposing views in their head
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: right of the you know, the dichotomy of what they're
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: told versus what they see on the ground. And yeah, fantastic,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: But I think I mean it's a cliche, right, Travel
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: broadens the mind, it really, it really does. But that's
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: about the interactions with people and other cultures and as
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: as you said, you respecting those cultures and the history.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: And I think it's something we forget about even here
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: in the US. You know, we people move around a
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: lot and you know, Colorado from Colorado right now, as
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I think I could say now, and you see shift,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: you know, you see you see the people not really
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: knowing the history. And you know, I'm sure this happens
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: in other states. I just I just don't know, but
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: in Colorado you can see some of that that that changing,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I think. And I'm an immigrant, right and I'm not
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: gonna I'm going to say aluminium not aluminum right, just
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: just as the point, and I'm.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Going to drink tea and not coffee.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: But I'm not I'm not suggesting for a for a
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: second that you know, it should change to adapt to me.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I think I should change to adapt to it, respecting
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: its culture and its history. And that's just in Colorado,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: so yet alone the rest of the world. It's very
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: important that we bear that in mind because at the
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: end of the day, we're all human. You know, we
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: have different We've been brought up differently, right because the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: cultures and the history, you know, they they weigh on us.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: But we're all human and fundamentally, you know, I've traveled
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: seven the odd countries. In every single one of them,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: people want the same thing.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: They want.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: They want to they want their family, you know, their
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: family to do better than they did, right. They want
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: to they want to keep their family safe. They want
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: to have a laugh with their mates and maybe be
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: And even in the dry countries, people or people you
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: know alcohol for some reason. Is I said, all all
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: cultures so you know, do it doing do that, and
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: you know, and and then they want to hear the
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: stories from other people, you know, the strangers who are
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: becoming their friends. And everybody is the same. All the
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: stuff that divides us, to me is artificial. It doesn't fabricate, exists.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: It's fabricated because you know, again, one of the oldest
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: tricks in the book is divide and conquer, right, and
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: you feel it happening. Let's say another large North American countries.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Perhaps that's going on a bit now, and it's awful.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: We're all the same. We actually all want the same
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: things in life. And why do we feel so divided?
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: And travel reminds you of that. Travel reminds you that
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: people with very different backgrounds, very different cultures, are the same.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: We're all the same.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, our nature is all the same. I feel, it's
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: just that we're nurtured. It's the difference between nature and nurture.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: As humans, I think our nature is to be kind
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: and to be hospitable and to be curious, but we're
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: oftentimes nurtured by our environment to be suspicious or to
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: think that they're another or that they're different than us.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: When I think Mark Twain said it best, I think
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: he coined the phrase of that travel is fatal to prejudice.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: And the more that we travel, the more that we
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: realize we are all the same and like you said,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: we all want the same thing and that's why travel
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: is so important.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: You know what he wrote that, He wrote that book
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: into the the name of Samuel, you know, of course,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: like you, I liked I like the travel books and
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: the Innocence Abroad. It was about the grand tour that
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Americans would do back in the day, steamboat travel, all
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and writing about how different those
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: those cultures were in that book. To me, even though
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: it feels old in a way, it feels very current.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: I haven't read it in a while admittedly, but yeah,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: but it's yeah, he traveled, which is why he wrote
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: that and why he saw that and why he said that.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's quite quite wise words.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I think before we move on to our next topic,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: that is something that I do like to ask, and
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: I know that you are well read, Nick, And if
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: you were to pick the top two or three books
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: of any subject, something that's really influenced your life, maybe
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: your business, or maybe your view on travel or travel itself,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: what were some of the most influential books for you?
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: It's it was a difficult one to answer because being
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: a bit geeky by nature.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: You know, Tom's V.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Deegg is a great book, and I know it's not
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I know it's not fiction, I know, but he's an
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: ex test pilot, you know, engineering mindset, a disciplined mind, which,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: as you know, comes across in his writing. And we
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: know Jonathan's been involved in the late visitions of that
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: and Jonathan kind of thinks.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: The same way.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Actually, I think myself brought some of the North American
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: view viewpoints to that book, because it's definitely very British
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: or maybe even influenced by where, you know, the sort
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: of traditional home of overlanding in South Africa. Australia. Of course,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: I think you know, it's grown massively here. I think
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: it's overtaken those markets now and the innovation come out
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: of the US overlanding industry is incredible right now.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: But the book, yeah, it's just gigee.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: It's full of tables and numbers and calculations and that
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff, and you're thinking about, oh, well, how
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: much order am I going to need? And how much
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: fuel do I need? And how do I how do
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: I arrange of fuel cash? And you know, so when
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: you read a book like that, as I did, I've
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: got one of those ridiculously priced first editions now that
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: that you will see crop up in eBay for thousands
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: and thousands of dollars. And that was that was the
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: first thing, you know. And actually in line with that,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I have a very beat up copy of Sahara Overland
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: by Chris Scott, another one of my favorite books. Again
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: it was the it was the promise you know, before
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: I traveled, reading about his journeys through the Sahara and written,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: you know, say my my my copies usually in the
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: trip when I'm in the Sahara. So it's very beat
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: up and the pages are all brown where I've thumbe
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: through so many times, and it almost hearkens back to
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: this time of uh of travel that is now more
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: difficult than possible if you're willing to band the rules
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit. But any of any of those books
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: that that that really make you think about there's there's
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: an idea I'm going to Yeah.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: The Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide for those that are listening,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: if you can find a copy. Jonathan Hanson is now
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: working with Tom Shepherd on that book, and they're doing
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: an exceptional job of keeping it up to date with
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: the most current information. And you can find those if
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: you just do a quick web search. I know that
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: you can find the current copies. Some of the original
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: hardback ones are almost impossible to find. And I remember
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: I bought my first Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide from a
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: land Rover dealership. It was this dusty copy. I mean,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: no one had touched it in probably years, and it
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: was sitting on a shelf and I opened it up
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: and my eyes went wide of like does this really exist?
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, it's a really proud possession for me.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: So yeah, So yeah, favorite book for maybe maybe different reasons.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, it's it's it's it's great. I know
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: I do read a lot, so having a favorite favorite
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: story is probably not it. I had The Osborne Guide
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: to Spaceships when I was a kid, That's one of my.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Favoritesble how about how about books that have maybe changed
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: your perception on either business or the world. Is there
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: any been anything recently that you've read that was pretty profound.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: You know that you know in my other life, you know,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I still help I put it as I help companies,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: at least in it get out of their own way.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: So, so my background was in operations and infrastructure, you know,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: and one of the guys who drags cables and nobody
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: cares about you until something breaks, then everybody cares about you.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: So there's a book there that that I think anyone
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: sort of starting in that space, particularly maybe more junior
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: manager a Bok called The Phoenix Project. Anyone who's sort
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: of been in that career and reads that book goes,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, I agree with every turther pages you go, yep, yep,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what happens. And it's a story about personalities
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: which you see in that thing. You talk about how
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: it's perceived externally, and it helps you realize that you're
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: not alone, you know, it helps you realize that this
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: is normal, and you know again to the more junior
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: folks coming up, helping manage that both internally and externally
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: and downwards and upwards. It's a really good book. It's
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: a really well written book. It's kind of funny. It's
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: a short read. So we recommend that we dole them
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: ount of folks who who think they are alone.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: In suffering and they're really not here.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's quite a good that's a quite good book.
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: That's a great resident on the business side. Great recommendation. Well,
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: let's let's shift the conversation a little bit towards seven
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: PE Overland. For those that are listening, it's really important
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: because Matt and I value this so much that we
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: don't have any influence from advertisers. There's no there's no
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: advertorial in the podcast or anything else we do in
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: Overland International, So this is not paid time by Nick
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: and his team. We brought seven p Overland into this
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: podcast because we see them as the leader, the thought
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: leaders in training for the overland space. And we also
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Matt and I both believe that training is the most
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: fundamental purchase that we need to make before we buy
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: anything for our vehicles, before we buy any gadgets or
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: gear that we go and we get good training because
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: that will help form our decisions going forward. So the
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: reason why we're talking about that today is because we
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: think it is so critical towards safety successful trips. It's
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: going to save you way more money than you would
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: ever spend on the training because you're going to realize
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: you don't need to buy all these widgets that people
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: are selling, because it's the gray matter between our ears
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: that solve most of the problems as a driver. So
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: for me, the first couple of things I want to
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: talk about is what do you see as being the
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: most fundamental skills that someone needs to adapt quickly or
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: early in their process of travel.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: The first thing you need to do is you need
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: to know how to make a good cup of tea.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: And I said, I like that one.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: But really, again, what I've noticed about you know, I've
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: lived more than half my adult life in the States,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: so I feel fairly comfortable to saying Americans want to
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: get it done right, so let's get it done. But
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: sometimes getting it done and just getting it done for
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: the sake of getting it done might be the wrong thing.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: You might end up in more trouble than when you started.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: So the British way is more to have a little
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: cup of tea a kettle on and think about that.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if it's a cup of tea. It's
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: just just taken a moment to stop to think about
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: the situation.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: You know. I heard his story just a few weeks ago.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Was some chap had said, you know, when you're stuck,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: you know, stop and have a sandwich. You know, if
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: you're really stuck, stop and make camp. And and that's
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: that's great, because I joke, I jokingly say in pretty
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: much every class, this is this is this is the situation.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: It'll be dark, it'll be raining or snow in. You'll
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: be cold, you'll be wet, you'll be hungry. You'll be thirsty.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: You'll be annoyed with your life. You'll be annoyed at yourself,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: You'll be annoyed the vehicle. You'll just be randomly annoyed
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: at the people around you. You're going to be in
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: a bad emotional state. You're not you're not in the
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: best place to to pull you know, ten thousand pounds
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: of vehicle out of the stuck.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: So stop talking about it. Tacoma.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about some of the some of the vehicles
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: that I see around.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: Here that may well be a little bit over GV
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: will you.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: I think this is just kidding. We love tacomas, we
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: absolutely do.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, this is a it's it's what's
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: the other phrase, it's it's overlanding, not overloading.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: So they do love that though, because Google still changes
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: overlanding to overloading autocorrect.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that fantastic.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: It is fantastic. It's an irony above all irony.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know you're gonna beig heavy vig you're
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: stuck and just just stop and have a think, you know,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: And what helps that thinking is, of course, is the knowledge, right,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: And that's I think what's important to us. You know,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: I think we've got some We've got some great drivers
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: on the team. We have some world class drivers on
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: the team. You know, I'm a rank amateur compared to
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: the folks on the team. But what I think more
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: importantly what we have is we have world class instructors,
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: people who can take the things they've learned as they
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: became world class drivers, you know, off road drivers, expeditionary drivers, mobility,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, take that and put
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: it into other people's heads that that is that that
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: is the skill that I think we have and you know,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: if you know, to our own horn a little bit,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: I think we do that better than anyone else. You know,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: the style of the instruction. And we have a team, right,
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: We're not an individual. We have a team that have
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: a broad range of experience. You know, we've touched on
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: some of mine today. The other guys have centuries of
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: experience in other areas, whether whether it's on the logistical side.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: We have people who are mechanically inclined, people who who
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: like the new technology going into the into the vehicles,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: you know, because it's not taking anything away adding and
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: we have choice today.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: You can go old school, new school. But all of these,
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: all of these different things that that's kind of funneled
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: down into you know what we'll see here with it
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: with close to a couple of hundred hours of class,
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: classroom hours at events like this, little pieces of that.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: But then we match the instructor with with that, and
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: then you know, we've got the more junior folks, the
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: newer folks. We mix them in so they learn as well.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Because you know, we're thinking about how does the what
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: a succession look like none of us are.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: Getting any younger.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Do we really want to lose the skills of the
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: first guys who drove across Borneo when aided?
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: Where do they go? Do they do they perish with them?
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Do they just become stories? Or do we pass on
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: those those hard earned skills to our new instructors? And therefore,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: two folks who want to learn that the instructional ability
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: and the style, and the patience and the humor, all
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: of that stuff is really important to us. And you know,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: you Scott, you know all of us, I think, and
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: everyone is down to worth. Everybody is open.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: Honest and transparent about these things.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: You know, nobody's nobody's well just jokingly disparaging amongst ourselves, ads,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: but nobody's ever disparaging. You know, if someone's not learning,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: guess who's fault that is? It's certainly not theirs, right,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: So so we'll we'll we'll change tracked, you know, we'll
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: we'll change track, we'll do something different, We'll find that
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: person's best way of learning.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: And we have folks. You know again, another joke I
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: have is.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: You know, we do small group training over multiple days
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: and we have a very the ratio of instructor is
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: usually one structure for one person or two people. Often
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: couples come and maybe maybe three or four sort of max.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of the max who we get. So
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: the joke being is, you know, the positive thing for
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: the client is that they get to spend eight to
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: ten to twelve hours in a car with us. Of course,
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: the downside is that they get to spend the ten
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: twelve hours a day of the car with us.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: But you know, we don't just talk about driving and recovery.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: We talk about you know, someone's thinking about buying a huge,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: you know, forty pound truck, you know, a six by
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: or an eight buy. Yeah, go and speak to Dunk,
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: He's done a lot of that stuff, you know. Or
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: somebody who says, well, what about what about traveling in
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: North Africa?
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go and speak to Nick. He can tell you
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: a bit about that.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: So all of those things, know, and we love those
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: experiences that there are a lot of fun for us
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: because we spend so much time with these small groups.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: You know, we we you know, we eat, drink and
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: drive together. So we spend a lot of time to
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: the stories over dinner and people finding out and then
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: and then of course between the clients as well, you
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: know folks who you know, one chap who was traveling
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: de Vat and Nevada had ever been before, meets the
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: guy from Vegas who knows all of those routes of
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: getting all those tips and building friendships, you know, and
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: we see so much of that. We see people who
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: came along on one of our training trips, are one
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: of our travel trips, and they become friends, you know,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: they stay in touch. We we just did another trip,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: you know, just a few just last week. Actually that
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: basically all the people who did it last year okame
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: on the trip, so we did it slightly differently.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: But we see a lot of repeat. We see a
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: lot of of repeat.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: And that to me speaks volumes to the type of
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: service that we offer folks because they like the personalities,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: They learn a lot, and they have a fun time.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so. And when we recommend training, there's
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: a few things that we we always ask people to
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: look at. So the first thing that we look at
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: is do the people that are doing the training have
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: recent and relevant experience. So it's often times people will
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: say I've been training for thirty years. Well, if they
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: do two trainings a year for thirty years, that actually
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: isn't very much experience. So I'd actually I'd be more
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: interested in the person that just got off of five
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: years traveling around the world and they're training monthly, They're
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: going to have more recent and relevant experience. And that's
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: one of the advantages that you guys have is that
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: you're not only doing for a drive training, you're actively
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: traveling around the world. You're actively leading trips around the world.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: So when you look at a trainer, look at their resume,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: and if their resume all had has the nineteen eighties
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: or nineteen nineties in it, then you may want to
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: question how much they've kept their skills up to date.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: And also it's just an impossibility for an individual or
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: two people to stay current with all of the most
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: recent technologies and all of these different places around the world. Nick,
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: you've been to seventy countries, but if you look at
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: your whole team, you guys have been to everywhere, just
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: about everywhere. And that's the advantage of having a team
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: of instructors is that an individual who says I want
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: to go trial the Silk Road, you can say, no problem,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: We've got this instructor that has experienced in that part
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: of the world. Someone else wants to go to Northern Africa,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: they meet with you. Somebody who wants to do Southern Africa,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: maybe they meet with Graham. So I think one of
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: the great strengths is that you guys have recent relevant experience.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: You guys are actively doing it. You have resumes that
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: go from the eighties all the way up into the
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and that's really important. You have a
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: wide scope of experience. There's a lot of humility within
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: your team, which means that you guys are still actively learning.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: What I get concerned is when you have the instructor
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: who says that they've got all this experience and they've
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: got it all figured out. That means they stop learning
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: a long time ago. And you need to have a
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: team of people to challenge yourselves to continue to grow
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: and to learn. And seven P is one of the
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: few organizations that have have that. There are definitely other
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: organizations out there that do, but you're one of the few.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: And that's the reason why the Overland Expo has selected
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: seven P as their training arm is because you guys
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: have this depth of experience. So I think when we
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: ask people to look into training, that's what we tell
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: them to look for, is for those kinds of attributes,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: a humility, a desire to learn, recent relevant experience, and
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: a wide range of experience within a team of people.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: And then I also really like the fact that you
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: guys have brought on junior instructors and you've started to
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: diversify your ranks, which I think the industry desperately needs.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: It needs more diversity and more's more experiences from different
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: viewpoints on life, and I think that that's really important.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: So I think the next thing that I would like
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: to ask is if someone was they've scheduled a training
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: with seven P Overland, for example, and they've they just
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: bought a new vehicle, they bought it, maybe a four
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: runner or whatever, what would be some of the things
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: that you would recommend them to consider preparing their vehicle
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: for their first training session so that their their vehicle
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: is ready.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: That we get that question a lot. Actually we get
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: I've just put a new four on it. What do
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: I need to do before I can come into training?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: And the answer to that is really simple, nothing, Yeah, right,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: so nothing, because any of these pickle you know, throw
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: a cat around here and right now in any of
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: these vehicles we'll see is absolutely suitable, you know, bone
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: stock out of the you know, off the factory floor
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: that they are absolutely superbly capable. That's a wonderful thing
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: about these modern four Wi fos, superbly capable, you know what.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: We of course, the first thing I'm going to say,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: what should I spend my money? I'm going to say training, yes,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: for you know, but it's also the right answer. But
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's a it's a it's a great thing
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: because we've seen on several occasions. I remember one gentleman
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: in particular, we were doing some fairly basic training down
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: in financial training in Arizona. He comes along and he's
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: very excited and he'd bought a vehicle and then he
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: found us, and then he came along in the training
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: and he had a short wheelbase was to be in
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: a JK I guess thirty seven's and and it was packed,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: you know, packed with stuff. And so three days for us,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: he comes up sort of sheet with to the to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: the to the campfire. After having explained what he wants
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: to do is his long distance road biased travel. He
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: wanted to do I can't remember. It was a photography.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: He had some equipment that he wanted to take with them,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: and he didn't really have room for it in this
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: short wheelbase. So but someone cheapishly comes up and says,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: I've bought the wrong vehicle, haven't I? And it's like, well, honestly, yes,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: we think you have. And that's heartbreaking. If if we
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: spoken to him a couple of months before, we could
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: have helped him make all of those decisions about what
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: he needed. You know, he needed a long wheelbase because
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: he wanted to carry a lot of stuff. You know,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: he didn't need thirty sevens because he spending most of
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: his time on the road being aggressive. Thirty seven inch
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: tie is not really the right thing for a lot
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: of interstate travel. So people talk to us, and again
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: I mentioned people spend a lot of time in the
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: car with us. Come along in your stock vehicle. We'll
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: help you. You'll tell us what you want to do,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: will help you shape that, you know, do you will?
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: You will? You need a roof rack?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: You know, we pretty much as you know, we're not
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: fans of roof racks because there's a temptation there to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: just put you know, to you know, the part of
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: the overloading brigade. So, but roofracks have a place right
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: if you if you naked a roof racks, great if
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: you need.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: It, yeah, I mean it's great. It's great to put
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: to put fire.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: Would have a vehicle breakdown, you can load up the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: other vehicles gear absolutely, yeah, yeah, any reserve capacity.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Platform platforms for rooft again roofio. There's a lot of
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: weight up there. So from a pure driving perspective, something
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: we're not of course I have one, but you know,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: if you it depends on what we don't. I'm lucky enough,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: I think, really very fortunate to have multiple vehicles, right,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: so they set up slightly differently for to meet you know,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: the demands of of of the type of trip that
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do. So and also it's handy to
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: have a one ten in Europe, right, So there's there's
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: things like that. But when folks spend time with us
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: and they say, you know, and I see it. You
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: know this group now that we call sort of accidental overlanders,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: the people who were you know, actually.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: Gray and wrote that that Wikipedia.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Entry originally, and it was you know, kind of travel
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: for the sake of travel, that was overlanding is and
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: not not being too stressed about a destination, just you know,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: letting it unfold naturally and maybe what's up this left
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: hand trail, Let's go and find out. But now there
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: are people who you only got mountain bikers and climbers
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: and you know, ham radio guys and fly fishermen, all
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: of this stuff. They're overlanders, but that's not they're overlanding
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: to do that of the thing. So we call them
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: accidental over I don't I can't remember. I apologie. I
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: can't remember who coined that phrase. It wasn't me, but
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's a great phrase. It's a great expression
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: to describe, you know, what they're doing. So they do
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: want to outfit the vehicles in the same way. But
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: perhaps you know, a fly fisherman, you know, and a
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: short wheelbase thing might not be the ideal thing for them.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: They need a place on the roof, they might need
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: I need something made of steel so they can use
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: little magnets to keep their go rod handy right, So
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: that there might be stuff like that that they need
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: to think about. Mountain bikers, you know, climate anyone, they've
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: got photographers, they've got all different requirements, so talk to us,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: you know, and that the training does that. Not only
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: will we teach how the vehicle handles, you'll be familiar
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: with it and maybe maybe it is oh, you're going
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: to spend more time on the more technical train and
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: maybe start thinking about suspension, maybe start thinking about tires.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe you know two inch left, how does that unfold?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: So you know, of course, then we jokingly say the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: first for the most important modification is.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: Going to be going to be a fridge, right because
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: the fridge for.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Obvious reasons, and then you know, then you can get
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: but you know the thing, you know, sometimes sometimes I
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: feel I pick on the on the vendors a little
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: bit too much. And of course, like everyone else, I
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: like the gear, you know, like the new toys are
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: like the Jingly Jangles is Duncan would say, the shiny objects,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: and it's fun and a lot of people put a
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: lot of time and effort into doing that. I mean,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: some of the electrical system builds I've seen, wow, you know,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: and that's and that's not people who are professional as
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: people who've done this because they've taken months of time,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: care and attention to make that the right thing to do.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: I would love to do that, but I'm more likely
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: to be driving across the Sahara given the choice. But hey,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: that's great because this is a broad church, right, people
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: have many different needs of people who just modify their
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: cars that you know, and maybe just camp at the weekend.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: That's part of the sport for them, is just to modify.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you see, you can see it, you can
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: see hear all the different vehicles.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: I love the fact that we are because when you
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: get so broad like that, you get all this great crossover,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: you know. And again another Dunanism is every day is
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: a school day, so not only actually do we learn
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: when we're teaching, which is actually teaching is the best
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: way to learn. Completely newbies ask these questions that we
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: may not have considered, so we think about it and
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: come on with a good answer. It's just looking at
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: the vehicles and the setups. You know, you're learning there
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: as well. And then when you think, oh that thing
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: that this mountain biker did on his vehicle, that's fantastic
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: because that will work really well for this other thing
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: over here. Sure, so you know the crossover we're seeing
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: now and these ideas and I touched on earlier, you know,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: the traditionally traditional overlanding which came out of you know,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: South Africa and Australia. And that's why in the early
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: days of overlanding here, which of course you were a
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: part of, you saw that what was it It was imports.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: It was imports from those places largely, I mean a
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: few European to a lesser extent.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: But now the US has left them in the dust.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: A lot of new innovation products.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: And the innovation, the innovation coming out of here right
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: now is incredible. Walking around here, the conversations about over
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: the last two days with vendors here, it's incredible. It's
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: importantly thinking about sometimes it's problems I didn't know I had,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: I didn't have I had, you know, so that's good too, right,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: so again thinking about it in a different way. But yeah,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: for sure, the innovations are amazing.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: It is impressive. And when we used to do some training,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: or if when someone asks us about training, we always
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: recommend you guys, but they say, well, what should I
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: do to the vehicle, And I say, don't modify it
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: at all, but make sure you have light truck tires
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: and make sure that your spare is the same size
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: as the other. Oftentimes that's not the case. And then
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: I also tell them to make sure that they have
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: front rear recovery points, because it's interesting. You can have
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of vehicles now that look very capable off road,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: but they don't have front recovery points, and that you know,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you can't do training without front
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: recovery points, but it's something that you should let your
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: instructor know. And then they may have recommendations of like, yeah,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: make sure you get front and rear recovery points. But
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: it's interesting the number of people that I had, and
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: the last thing that I would always tell them is
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: make sure that you've done a check of the full drive,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: because we would have people come to training and they
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: would push the button or turn the switch and nothing happens,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: and then they've lost that whole opportunity or training or
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: it really compromises what they can learn. So, yeah, doing
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: a full systems check of the full drive, light, truck, tire,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: make sure you've got to set a five that are
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: all the same size, and then front and rear recovery
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: points and then the learning can begin.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: That's right, you know, and when people book treading with us,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: we asked them to send us some photos of their vehicle.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a little textbox description, and it's great.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: We had this little I assume people put time a
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: little bit of detail in that textbox. Turns out people
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: want to write a story about the vehicle, which which great,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: great because it just reminds you that this passion behind it.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: You're sure, so we live that as well. But yeah,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: those sorts of things are the easy ones. But you're right, yeah,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: the recovery. But I don't know what's happening with recovery
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: points lately that people Yeah, they might look good, but.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: They may not.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: An interesting example was I just went to the reveal
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty two Tundra TRD Pro rear locker
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: built on a land cruiser chassis. Yeh, like all of
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: the things that we want, and you look at the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: front end of it and you realize there's no recovery points.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: So you ask the engineer and they say, well, the
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: aerodynamic requirements, we couldn't have those exposed recovery points anymore.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: So things are changing. So you can buy a TRD Pro,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: which should be the most capable off road vehicle that
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: you can get in for that particular model, and it
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: may not have front recovery points. Now the aftermarket will
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: no doubt address that. But it's interesting how things are
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: changing because technology and requirements are changing as well.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were chatting about this, you know, we were looking
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: enough to drive the new Broncos the other and we
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: see it in the jeeps and other cause where before
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: we had the wire auxiliary circuits in ourselves very difficult,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: and now the manufacturers have listened to change and you
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: get a bunch of auxiliary switches.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: Super cool, fantastic. Thank you for doing that so hopefully thoughtful.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: Hopefully they'll hear the feedback about recovery points and other
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: things and fix that issue as well.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully one of the things that we also really
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: like to ask and I would love to hear your
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: thoughts on this. Someone comes up to you and they say,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to drive down to Ushuaia. I've never
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: really done this before. What advice would you give someone
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: who's ready to head out on their first big overland journey.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: What would you tell them.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: That My instinctive response is to get going right, just
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: just just just do it and learn and learn the
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: ropes as you go along, because as we touched on earlier,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: you know that experience that that raw because of your inexperience,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: the experience will be so much better you are, you know,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: you're climbing and mountain in what in terms of what
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: you're learning and the knowledge you'll acquire will be fantastic.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: You'll learn things the hard way, you know, and it's
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot to be set for that. You know,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: it's the same same journey we've been going on. You
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: folks ask us, you know, I think someone's folks assume
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: we were born with this knowledge and obviously not, and
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: just to just to drop yourself on the deebend to
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: go and do it. Well, you know, we've got the Internet.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: We've got you know, there's forums you can go and
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: I guess I guess most people listening know that not
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: everything on the Internet is necessarily true, so it would
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: be careful. But the stories you'll hear, you know, there'll
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: be people with reputation on the internet, you know that
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: that we can follow their their journeys. I mean, I
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: mean Tim and Kelsey Hubert spring to mind, great example. Yeah,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: so with with their videos and their stories so inspiring.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah that I'm sure they've inspired a lot of people
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: to do the same thing.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: Get out there and do it, you know, because you know.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: So the reason the reason that I that I really
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: started this is, you know, you know, my dad got sick.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: He unfortunately and ended up with an industrial disease from
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: work in the shipyards. And it was right on the
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: cusp of him and my mum retiring and traveling. All
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: the plans they had were to do and then they
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: would they were gone.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: They were just gone. And again I'm in my early.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: Twenties when this happens, and I'm thinking, no way, I'm
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: not waiting to do any of that stuff.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go and do it. So I did.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: I just dumped on the deep end.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: Knew a little you know, founder had a copy of
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Sahara overland thought I'm doing that, and you know, I think,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: I think it really it really did change my life,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: you know, that overlanding. I don't know if I called
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: it that then I guess probably did. But having the
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: ability to not and the good fortune of not having
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: to wait until you know, retirement, you know, and maybe
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: a little wait, I'm getting up there, but not not
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: not that close still and doing it when you're younger,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: and and actually realizing that not everything revolves around this
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: forty hour week with three weeks vacation. Just being brave
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: enough to stand up to the man and say this
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: is what I'm going to do. And then they'll say, no,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: you can't do that. No you don't understand. This is
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: not a question. This is now a statement.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah it is. It's a declaration.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: I am going to do this because if these things
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: become important, you going to ashwire is important to you,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: go in and drive in the silk road, you know,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: driving through the app back or you know, a safari
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: in Southern Africa. All these things I recommend by the
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: way you should do them because, as it says on
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: the side of my camel trophy truck, one life lived,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: which is some being interpreted in the land River community
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: in the UK, is one wife livid, which I think
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: they assumed they do the money pick that they do,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: but one life Lived is actually a pretty good philosophy.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: Every time I see that trug, it reminds me, you know, yeah,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: you know what I can. I can I can't stay
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: at home and I can't there. I'll always There'll always
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: be another how a point or spreadsheet or meeting or
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: call to make. But you know what, I don't remember
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: any I don't remember. I don't remember a meeting that
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: I did last week. Yeah, but I do remember twenty
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: years ago, you know, when I was in the Suker
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: and Morocco buy and spices. You know, I remember these things,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: and they are the things that we all should be
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: doing our life. And my view should be should be
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: creating stories, creating stories that you can regale as a
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: gin soak curmudgeon when you're too old to travel, which
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: is entirely my life's philosophy at the point. You know,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: So I just think, go right, go and do it.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Learn on the way, I mean, with a bit of
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: common sense. Yeah, read some of those books that will
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: inspire you. You know, read read the travel books, you know,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: read them, Delia Owen's book in the Cry of the Kalahari.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: Read those books.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: Read them, and you'll go, oh my god, I have
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: to do this, and I'm going to find a way
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: to do this.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: I'm going to quit my job to do this, you know.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we and it doesn't cost a lot to travel,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: you know, people can do it. In very inexpensive vehicles,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: and they've done it very inexpensively. Again, Tim and Kelsey
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: great inspirations on how they've traveled in their eighty series
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: land Cruiser. If you look at Graham and Luis a belly.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: They have told me that their budget is two thousand
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: dollars a month, which is for many people that's much
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: less than they spend trying to do a fifty sixty
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: hour work job a week or work job. And so
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: to recalibrate ourselves. If travel is the goal, and if
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: seeing the world is the goal, and learning more about
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: ourselves and about other cultures is the goal, find a
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: way to get out of the trap. Yeah, you know,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: don't don't go into debt to get that widgety thing.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: I have a good example I share.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: It's a friend, a good friend of mine whom I
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: met in my first trip at Chop called Jim, who
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: lives in the Northwest, and I met him as he'd
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: taken taken taken a year hib his wife and his
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: two kids to travel around the world in a Mongolian
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: camel trophy discovery.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: So from the Mongolia event, they traveled all around the world.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: The kids, a young age's got to see North Africa,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: the Middle East. They spent three months in India and
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: they worked their way, you know, to the far side
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: of the specific from the US. So you're on the
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: road living out that discovery. And so it gets back
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: home interviewed by the local paper and people reached out
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: to him.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: But in mind, this is about twenty years ago.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: I had dinner with a chap who was very interested
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: in recreating that trip trip and said, you know, what
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: does that trip?
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: What does that trip cost?
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: You know, with like thirty thirty forty thousand dollars, which
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: it was a lot of money, but the guys kind
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: of shaking his head, said, wow, that's a lot of
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: money to do on a.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Trip like that.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: In gym points at the eighty thousand dollar BM Dually,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: the guy drove up and reminded him gently that perhaps
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: you need to think about your priorities, you know. So,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, an eighty thousand dollars, especially back then
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: as a very very nice car, and I'm sure every
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: time you get in that it feels great and you
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: feel comfortable with your purchase and you enjoy every every
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: moment of ownership. Yeah, but you know what, you know what,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: you're around the world with your kids when they're growing up,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: experience the history and the cultures and everything the.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: Planet has to offer.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: It's priceless.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: What do you think that's worth? Yeah, you know, is
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: that worth getting a little bit of a smaller car?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, in a fifty grand car is
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: still a pretty good car.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Again at two thousand prices.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: We're even a ten thousand dollars on to get you
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: to working back so you can save money to go
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: see the world.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, And we see a lot of people
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: like that, people working and they are the travel bugs
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: got them.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: And I can't help but think as well. Maybe with last.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: Year and twenty twenty in COVID, it's changed the American
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: mindset a little bit to realizing that, you know that
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: that working and then looking forward to the retirement. You know,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: these kind of blocks of life that almost feel they're
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: dictated to you. It feels like you're not writing a book,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: you reader the instruction manual. Maybe that's going to change
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: a little bit. I hope it does, because I.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: Hope it does, because we're not guaranteed tomorrow. I mean
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: I think about even my parents, my mom diagnosed with
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: Alzheimer's as my parents are retiring and you don't know,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: you have no idea what tomorrow holds. And I think
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: about that, and I think about what what am I
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: setting as a goal for five years from now? And
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: how come I can't do it in the next six months.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: I ask myself that now every time that I come
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: up with the new ideas, why am I waiting? If
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: it's that interesting to me, or if it's that important
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: to me, why am I waiting? Why am I not
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: making it a priority today? I thank you for reminding
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: us of that, Nick, and I really appreciate you being
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: on the podcast and sharing your adventures in Northern Africa,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: the good that you and seven P are doing for
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: the community. For the Overland Expo, I'd highly recommend that
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: people that are listening attend an Overland Expo, sign up
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: for the experience package, check a bunch of boxes on
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: training that sounds interesting to you, and come and learn
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: about the.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: Skills of travel.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: So that way, like the Masai warriors say, a person
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: carries their experience on their back. The more knowledge and
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: the more skill and the more experience that we have,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: which has nothing to do with stuff the less stuff
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: that we need to buy, which means the more money
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: we have for fuel, the more money we have to
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: go see the world. And that's really the goal. And
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: I appreciate your time today, Nick. Is there anything else
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: that you'd like to share with the audience?
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: No, I like where you're going with that knowledge is light, right,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: it is. It's easy to take with you. And I
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: think it's important as well that that you know some
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: of this stuff is perishable skills. Like, for example, I
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: used to say, you know, I can't splice to save
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: my life. I probably can splice just well enough to
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: save my life, but you know, the time, the not
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: the splicing stuff, which is enormously popular classes.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: If you don't do that, you forget how to do it.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: For sure.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: If you don't practice left foot breaking, you kind of
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: forget how to do it. So reminding yourselves that these
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: things are perishable skills, go out and do it, you know,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: go out, go out somewhere at the weekend and get
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: into four low and have a little adventure.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: It's good for you because you remember, it's.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Good for the vehicle, gets all those fluids moving around,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: the mechanicals that need to be moving around, and just
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: get out there and enjoy it and make the most
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: of make the most of the time you have because,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: as I said, you know one life, you should live it.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for that, Nick. How do people find
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: out more about you individually? And then how do they
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: find out more about seven P Overland.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, some pier of one's quite easy either. The website
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: is at seven p overland dot com. Myself, you know,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: my bios in there, as well as the other senior
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: guys and the team. Their bios are there.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: And like every other website, it seems it's it's always
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: a little bit behind where we actually need it to be.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: But that's a good place to start.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: I encourage people to sign up for our of extremely
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: low volume mailing list, maybe one or two emails a year.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: But that's where we announced the stuff that's going on
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: the calendar. We announced the training, we announced the travel
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: chips that were sure, So that's sort of place awesome.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Nick for being on the podcast.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you very much and we look forward to
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: seeing you out in the field. And I need to
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: come and take some of your classes. I'm excited to
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: do that anytime. Come along and thanks you, thanks for having
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: me on the podcast of course, and thank you all
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: for listening, and we will talk to you next time.