Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.369: Dr Rebecca Marcus, MD FAAD Discusses The Role Of Minimizing Your Skincare Routine

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E.369: Dr Rebecca Marcus, MD FAAD Discusses The Role Of Minimizing Your Skincare Routine · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, four has arrived.
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• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Hi guys, welcome back to your anarchy.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: This is Ecta, and I have a wonderful guest with me today.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: She is the founder of her own line as well as a board certified dermatologist.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Dr.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: Rebecca Marcus.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the show, Dr.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to be speaking with you.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Ecta.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be on your show.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's an honor to host you and I love medical interviews.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: I really, really enjoy speaking to experts.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and so it's it's truly my honor to be hosting you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: And also I I mentioned your brand for everyone listening.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's called May M D, so M-A-E-I-M D.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely check that out as you're listening to this episode.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: But Dr.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus, I would love for you to get us started by kind of going uh down memory lane and telling us about, you know, what got you interested in dermatology?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: How did you get involved in that specific field of medicine?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then um what led up to the brand?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Marcus?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I can't hear you.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I hear you again.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now I hear you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Are you there?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, did you not hear anything I said?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I heard you really said yes.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, they cut off about maybe 30 seconds ago.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so let me just let me start over.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: So sorry.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, all right, so let me start over.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so Dr.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus, I would love for you to get us started by telling us about what really got you into dermatology and then also um everything that led up to the wonderful uh brand.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have always been interested in skincare, of course, um, as many of us derms can say.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this started when I was really young because I was forced to face it with my own skin challenges.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember the feeling of being a young girl and trying to fit in and trying to feel comfortable and suffering with acne and just um knowing how how deeply that affected me.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I was interested in medicine.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I became a doctor all those years past, and I really felt that it was my calling to really address that issue, understanding that people, whether they suffer from acne or rosacea, psoriasis, any number of conditions, everyone needs and deserves to feel comfortable in their own skin and how much that really affects all of us.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I love um I love meeting with patients of all ages and all types and just kind of helping everybody on that journey.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's been um been a real pleasure.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and I also, you know, recall my experience with skincare products as a young girl, looking for just the right thing that would that would save my life, as I kind of felt that it was at the time.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, feeling that these things that were prescribed by doctors, you sort of had to choose at that time between something that was aesthetically appealing and effective.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I really strove to create something.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to create something that people could really trust and have confidence that would work and also um would be a pleasure to use, uplifting, uplifting their spirit along the way.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's such a beautiful message, and I really like that you're keeping all of the aspects of wellness in mind there.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, honestly, I recently had a few conversations with some other guests and we're talking about how important it is for people.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, whether you're a consumer or you're a patient in a derm office, I mean, you have to really understand the body and the your organs aren't just, you know, it's not just allopathic medicine anymore, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have this holistic outlook and you have to have this holistic viewpoint that you're coming at your own health with.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so I really, really enjoy the fact that there are experts such as yourself out there that really do believe in that messaging and and you're promoting that, you know.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's beautiful.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you said that.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, I would actually love to hear um what are some of the things that you saw throughout your practice?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know you mentioned your own struggles with skin, and I think we can all definitely relate to that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: But what are some of the things you've seen?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think I could, I mean, if you could say the most in, you know, in your practice, like, you know, as you've been going along through the years, like how, like, what are some of the most major concerns?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, it's it's interesting because you hear the expression sometimes that the eyes are the window to the soul.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I really think that, and I know actually that the skin is the window to the body and what's going on inside.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we can really look at the skin and tell so many things about somebody's internal health.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's really fascinating because it gives me the opportunity to participate in you know, many, many different aspects of a patient's well-being and health and their life in general.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Things can be going on, whether it's physical or emotional or life-changing events such as pregnancy, childbirth, things like that, that it all sort of is reflected in the skin.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we do see um, I see a lot of, I love I love treating young um people with acne, young and old.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we all kind of get acne these days.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: It goes into adulthood too.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the things that I seek out.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, pediatrics, um, general wellness, skin checks, and that thing.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: But cosmetic dermatology has made so many strides, um, continue to have new developments each and every day that are so exciting.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and cosmetic dermatology is really not just about vanity.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there is some of that, but it really is like we've been already touching on in this in this conversation so far, um, about making people really live to their full potential by feeling great about what they are projecting outwardly, whatever that is, and whatever that means to them.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's skin or hair or nails or all of the above, um, the things that we can do both just to heal issues that may be going on, but also to enhance through through cosmetic dermatology, it really changes people's spirit.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I absolutely agree.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's, you know, you you made a really great point that it's not about vanity.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually really resonate with that message because, you know, um, when you have an uh any kind of skin disorder, or if your hair is falling out, or you're suffering from something like alopecia or anything, you know, under that umbrella of what you described here, you're going through a lot of emotional, you know, um just changes, you know, and that's really impacting a lot of, you know what I mean?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's impacting all aspects of life.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so I completely agree with you.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: I completely agree that it's it's something that definitely needs um, you know, a much more like bright spotlight, you know, shined on top of it because it's it's really something that's uh helping people on the daily rather than it's not about vanity.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you might see your favorite celebrity out there that's like, you know, kind of overdoing it with Botox or whatever, but you for the most part, average consumers, they usually go to a dermatologist or, you know, an expert and they say, hey, this is a real problem I have.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I need help because it's impacting my the way I look at myself.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the way they feel and the way kids sleep and study and things, you know, it just impacts everything.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I would love to uh chat with you about like some of the most important ingredients in skincare.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I know your point, um, you know, the for everyone listening, the brand has um right now one product and it's a very multifunctional product.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's called Serum Sticks, and it's six and one.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's what it says on the website, six and one.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: And and the ingredients that Dr.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus has chosen, um, they're they're truly interesting.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: And and I find them to be hallmark ingredients, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you think about it in terms of skin health.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, Dr.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus, I would love for you to go through the the superstar actives that are in your serum and talk about each one and why that's so important for our skin.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for asking about that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I created serum six really out of talking with my patients over years and finding out that, you know, when I would ask, and this is a little bit tangential, but when I would ask patients, so so what are you using for skincare?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times they would just look up with with these sort of hopeless eyes, like, well, I have, you know, nine different products on my shelf or 90 different products, but it's so overwhelming to be honest, I don't use anything.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you recommend?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, you know, I'm gonna create something for my patients that is scientifically sound.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I want every ingredient that I put in there to have a purpose, and I won't put anything in there that doesn't serve a specific purpose.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I want them to have a simple streamlined solution that they can feel good about using every day.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I'll tell my patients, it's kind of like taking a multivitamin.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know that if you if you take that or if you use this, you're really covering your bases, getting all of your necessary things all in one.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: So these six superstar actives are the six things that I think are really pretty essential to daily skincare, with one caveat.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: These are all things that also have to be able to be combined well chemically in the same formula.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I did not put retinol in there, which is an essential for many people, but is also not universal because you can't use it when you're pregnant.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can't use it if you have super sensitive skin.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, getting back to the six.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So antioxidants, peptides, hyaluronic acid, plant-derived stem cells, probiotics, and niacinamide.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, these are the things that are going to really protect the skin, heal, hydrate, combat inflammation, and just make sure that you're you know stimulating collagen and doing everything we can to call on our body's own natural healing mechanisms to restore the skin to you know its its ideal state.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like building blocks for the skin, is what you're so we do have this, yeah, um, amino acids in there too.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of building blocks, yes.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think that retinol is not something that we need in every single product.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, I'm it yeah, and I and I'm actually glad you didn't include it because honestly, I mean, I'll I'll be I'll be very transparent here and say that, you know, I'm not very um, you know, regular with my retinol routine.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: I have had no problems maintaining my skin.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's not something that I it's like it's great to do.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's great to have in your routine.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not, you know, saying no to it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying that it's not as essential as I feel like um popular culture has made it out to be.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think that it's more important, like you said, you know, it's it's more important to nourish your skin, to keep it well balanced, to keep the pH balanced, give it the nutrients it needs.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'll often, Dr.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus, I I use the reference of a petri dish of cells.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like when we put growth medium on top of them, we're giving them everything they need to survive and also flourish, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that's an excellent analogy.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Analogy, yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: So so when I look at skincare, I often try to give people this same analogy that, you know, your cells are just they're exposed to this external world where they're being bombarded by pollution and things that, you know, might take away moisture and hydration.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you want to constantly be giving them things that help them sustain just normal act, normal function, you know, just a normal baseline function and also enhance their, you know, capacity to do what they're supposed to do.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's wonderful that you've included things like antioxidants, peptides, you know, how they're on it's all important stuff.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really great.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's all important stuff, but we don't want to have to put on six different serums every morning, do we?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I no, I I did want that, but you know, another thing that came up when I was formulating this product is that I was really, really surprised to find out about the effective concentrations of ingredients and the actual concentrations that are found in many, many popular skincare products.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think people really ask about that enough because yes, we do talk about that a little bit with vitamin C in certain products, but um, you know, for one thing, there are actually many different forms of vitamin C.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's a whole other conversation in terms of the antioxidant group.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: But people were telling me, I would call and I would ask, okay, so what about this formula and that formula and how much you actually put in there?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, it's hard to get a straight answer, but it was almost never an amount that I could find in scientific studies to have shown to be effective.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that is a really important piece that you can say on the bottle all you want.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: This has antioxidants, it has peptides and niacinamide, for example.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But unless, you know, if it's just a tiny drop in an ocean of fillers and other stuff, it's not going to make any difference.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's a wonderful point.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I've honestly been echoing the same, same concept since the beginning of Gear Anarchy, you know, since my first episode.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it was literally out of frustration of this exact idea that I even started this podcast because the concept of dosing has never been addressed in this industry.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know why.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you have to like, I understand that you can, you know, have chemists speaking on ingredients all day long, but until somebody's telling you exactly, you know, as we know in medicine, we're never going to prescribe you a medication without a dose on there.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: We're never going to give you just blood pressure medication, no dosing, no uh, you know, idea of what you're taking, why you're taking, and how much of it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: We have to tell you why this much is required.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: So the same should be applicable to skincare.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, these are health products, health and wellness products.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I completely agree with you.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a huge, huge topic.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that um I would actually love to learn more about, you know, how the chemistry and the um the synchronous nature is of these different, you know, uh major actives when it comes to just blending them together and making sure that the product is efficacious overall.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if you have any data that you could share with us, that'd be great.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, data, well, let's see, without giving away any sort of quote unquote trade secrets, I guess I mean what I what I found is just that it took many, many iterations.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked very closely with a chemist.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: He was about, I don't know, maybe the 12th chemist that I interviewed over the course of two years looking for the right person.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when I met this person, I knew that he was just sent from heaven to help me.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this person truly has had uh he has a 40-year background in cosmetic chemistry, which is amazing, first of all.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he truly cares and truly um, you know, makes it his mission in life to make these products effective.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: He actually had done some work with wound healing, or actually quite a bit of work, and he had some miraculous products for wound healing that he created decades ago.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he had a following of patients, and he's not an MD or doctor, he's a chemist, but he has really um brought my vision to life.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when I met this person, we talked and talked about what do I want in the formula, but also what goes together, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because the pH and all these things, you have to be very careful about what can be combined.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned, for example, about vitamin C.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of vitamin C products on the market are made with alasorbic acid, which is you know thought to be or it is considered to be very potent.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And but it's also very, very unstable.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to play around a lot with that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we ended up choosing and combining it with different things that kind of stabilizes.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: We ended up choosing a form of vitamin C that's very frequently used in Japan, and it's not as commonly found in the US, although it is found in certain American and European products.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's called 3O ethylsorbic acid.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it turns out that this particular vitamin C molecule is extremely stable and extremely potent.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you can use it in lower concentrations and still get the same amount of antioxidant activity and neutralization of free radicals, but also really even more of a brightening effect than we see with other vitamin C derivatives.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So this product turned out to be perfect.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the feedback that I've, I mean, this ingredient was perfect for the product.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: The feedback that I've gotten from a lot of my patients who I see face to face in the office is I do treat a lot of rosacea.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And patients come in and they say they can't use vitamin C because it's too harsh for them.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they have told me that this is the first time they've been able to really use an antioxidant, especially vitamin C, on a daily basis, and it's actually improved the condition of their skin.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was one really big win.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that we found a great, um, great way to deliver vitamin C to everyone in a tolerable way that really works.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've even had um, you know, some patients tell me that their brown spots are getting lighter after applying the product twice a day for a prolonged period of time.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I attribute that to the brightening power of 3O ethylosorbic acid, but also to the shiitake mushroom extract.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that shiitake mushroom is a really great rich source of cogic acid, which is of course a skin brightener.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so while this is not a targeted brightening product, it does have that sort of um, if you would, side effect in in some people, which has been a really nice uh addition as well.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that's wonderful.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that people are always searching for their, you know, their perfect match when it comes to actives, especially something like vitamin C.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, I've had many brands on that are actually known for their stable formulations of vitamin C.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I as much as I love that ingredient, I think a lot of times consumers get hung up on certain ingredients.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's nice that you've included it into the mix, but you haven't like completely just made one product that's just it's just vitamin C because it can be very, very volatile and actually very short-lived, you know, then in terms of efficacy, because you know, we all know that it's very unstable.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, oftentimes, even though something's, you know, some brand is claiming the stability of vitamin C, eventually it's going to go bad.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's going just because of how it reacts to oxygen and all that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I like that you've actually incorporated, yeah.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: You've incorporated.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of feel like I'm nerding out a little bit here, but I'm just gonna add this one other thing, since you're interested in vitamin C.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we defined and found another ingredient, which is actually derived from a French pine tree, the French maritime pine tree, that can actually recycle vitamin C once it's already been oxidized.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So an antioxidant's function is to grab an extra electron from an unstable molecule.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And once that happens, it's got it it itself becomes, I guess, with an extra electron, and you know, so it's kind of done its job and it moves on.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: With this in particular ingredient, it can take that electron back and effectively recycle vitamin C once it's already been put to use.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So in this way, the formula it becomes circular because it builds on itself by the ingredients helping each other and creating something that is greater than the sum of its parts.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's very interesting.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: So wait, it's derived from a pine tree, you said?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's derived from a pine tree.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's an ingredient that I've seen in a couple of formulas lately for various for various indications, it's called pinous panaster.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um I had I had just started to scove to discover this maybe, I don't know, two or three years ago when I was looking into the formula and um read a bunch of studies.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's this is just a really fascinating property that this particular ingredient has.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's very interesting.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's definitely very interesting.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, I I think that chemistry is definitely evolving, you know, every day, or rather, our understanding of chemistry.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that's very cool to see it incorporated um in that way.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that, you know, yeah, and going back to your point about, you know, um the vitamin C thing, I think it's it's really interesting to see how there are different kinds of patients that can utilize the specific ingredient.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know that you had mentioned the rosacea aspect, which is actually very Interesting to me because when I was discussing Rosacea with Jen Marini, we talked about how you know it's very difficult for these patients to use almost anything on their skin.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like it just exacerbates everything.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's very interesting and definitely a highlight point that they're able to use your product and not feel like they're, you know, experiencing more inflammation and all that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's another thing.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that's actually something I wanted to talk to you about is this idea of the inflammosome, you know, and how it really plays into skin health and, you know, overall dermatology.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I would love for you to comment on it and discuss this topic because I think that a lot of people don't understand the importance of keeping inflammation at bay and also what to turn to, what products and ingredients to turn to when it comes to really, you know, um wanting to calm your skin down.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd love for you to comment on that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super interested in this because I really believe that, you know, we had talked in the beginning a little bit about the holistic side of medicine.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I really believe that so many things in the body are connected through inflammation.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when there's inflammation anywhere in the body, it's very plausible that it would come out in the skin.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So this whole connection is still not very well understood.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, think about, for example, inflammation in the gut.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: We have already proven in dermatology that when somebody eats dairy or when somebody eats sugar, that increases their risk of acne, which is of course an inflammatory skin condition.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that anecdotally we can all probably make note of times that maybe our diet hasn't been quite as on point as we would normally strive for, and it comes out in our skin, whether it's acne or eczema or some sort of other flare-up, um, keratosis, pyllaris, or all these things that just seem to get worse sometimes with certain dietary triggers, um, especially in kids.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's definitely been a link shown between food allergies and eczema.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So this all goes back to inflammation.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, inflammation not only is going to be responsible for these types of dramatic sort of manifestations, but it's also a way, you know, it causes the deposition of these advanced glycation end products in the skin.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And those are things that break down collagen and really cause the skin, the um, you know, they cause DNA damage and they cause the skin to exhibit premature signs of aging, such as fine lines, um, even dark spots that sort of like pigment to hyperpigmentation.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: So inflammation is really key, I think, when it when it comes down to anything in your health, and especially, not especially, but including the skin, inflammation is really where it's at.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think first and foremost, when we're looking about looking at inflammation and how to combat it, we need to look at the person as a whole and about their lifestyle factors.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that starts with diet, honestly, getting enough sleep, getting, you know, that lifestyle that we're all after, but really maintaining a healthy balance, which is kind of an overused phrase.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know, like what does that actually mean?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: But we just have to, it's just the basics.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So keeping our our diet in check, using clean products, nothing too toxic, and um, getting a little exercise and enjoying social time with friends and family and things like that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think interestingly, all those combat inflammation.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in terms of topical skin care, of course, there are lots of medications that we prescribe that are anti-inflammatory, anything from steroids to non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, and there have been some huge advances very recently, actually, in um in drugs that treat vitiligo, alopecia areata, and even atopic dermatitis.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: So those are all really great things that have kind of happened in the world of skin inflammation and the related aspects.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of skin care products and cosmosceuticals, I think that niacinamide is a really trendy ingredient that is here to stay.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And one of its main functions is anti-inflammation.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very helpful.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people with acne and you know, who who will they'll often turn to niacinamide, both for its sebum-regulating properties, but also anti-inflammatory properties.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then probiotics.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: We talk a lot lately about the microbiome.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we are still really looking into what probiotics can do in terms of the skin microbiome.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: But what they have definitely been proven to do in studies is reduce redness and inflammation in the skin.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really good start.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that's really, really I I love that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for uh, you know, kind of mentioning those two things because I think it's a very difficult topic, you know, the the inflammation aspect of you know, why people I I think it feeds into why people buy what they buy.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's always disheartening for me to see when someone is dealing with an inflammatory condition and they just keep purchasing products, you know what I mean?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, over and over again, just trying to get this, get rid of it, trying to, you know, somehow get their skin to go back to normal.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: I had a very good friend that reached out to me.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: She's um an editor and she was like telling me how she took steroids for a completely different problem, and it ended up, you know, it resulted in her having terrible skin conditions, you know, like as or sequelae, you know, related to the skin.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, well, that's very strange, you know, because steroids are supposed to be this like the most aggressive anti-inflammatory thing that we use in medicine, right?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: But she was like, Yeah, it's it actually resulted in me having a reaction, which um made it even worse.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: And at that time, I was recommending to her, you know, I was telling her, I think marula oil is great.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's like certain things that are in skincare that I find to be very strong anti-inflammatory agents, and definitely like marula oil for me has always been, you know, a hallmark there.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's important for us to, you know, kind of highlight that.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: And especially when it comes from the medical side of things, I think doctors and you know, just experts in general need to start, you know, telling people that these are some ingredients that really help.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I still know so many physicians that are, you know, whether they're in Durham or or not, they refuse to give any kind of even just advice out away from their medical, you know, side of things.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like I like to always say, you know, hey, listen, this is not medical advice, this is my personal advice to you, but this is what is what works for me, you know.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's important to get the word out there.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's really what I'm trying to say.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll do the same thing.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'll sort of tell them this is this is what the book says and this is what I do.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's also, you know, talking about inflammation, it's really important to look at the root of it and remember that inflammation is the body's defense mechanism.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when we do, for example, energy-based treatments, whether it's a laser, microneedling with radio frequency, or even just microneedling without energy, um, the goal is to induce inflammation.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that is how we stimulate collagen because collagen stimulation is a wound healing mechanism.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So inflammation really does serve to protect the body and serve to heal the body.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't necessarily want to, I like I think about this a lot with steroids and even non-steroidal anti-inflammatories.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: We try not to take those really unless we absolutely need them or use them unless we absolutely need them, because they do have side effects and not only side effects, but they impede a response in the body that's a protective mechanism.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, there obviously it's a very fine line and there's a balance.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and often I prescribe steroids every single day, usually topical steroids for what, you know, this, that, and the other.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so important to like really look at the root cause and like what should we do before, before we just try to quash that response.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's a that's a valid point.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, inflammation has so many mechan, you know, so many reasons.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's so many things that are happening that can cause inflammation.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right, inflammation is a hallmark when it comes to, you know, injury-induced, you know, regeneration, I guess you could say, right?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's reactivating the pathways that we need to get healthy tissue back into the same place.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: You're right.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, I'm, I mean, when it comes to just normal everyday consumers that aren't doing those procedures, if you have inflammation happening and you're seeing redness on your face after cleansing your skin, that's not normal.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: You shouldn't be, you know, that's not causing collagen regeneration, you know.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not saying that it has that type of a purpose, but I think that it's inflammation that's trying to help your body recover from something, some sort of stimulus.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe the face cleanser was too harsh.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we stimulated the face to become injured.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then the inflammation is the healing mechanism that brings us back into balance sometimes.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more of a sign, yeah, that something with you.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with you.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: I completely agree.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: I understand that, you know, I have done extensive immunology research in my day, but I but you know, one thing that I think consumers need to understand is that it's important to have a balanced routine so that you when you're seeing redness, when you're seeing this, you know, uh kind of I guess agitation of your skin, you know where it's coming from.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: You should be able to pick up.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where that's really where I was trying to go with this.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, you know, and I agree with you.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think that, yeah, there's but you should you will know when you have inflammation and it's post-procedure, you know what to expect because your doctor's telling you, you know, they're gonna tell you you're gonna have redness, you're gonna have this.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is the intention.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: So moving on, um, I would love to kind of get your, you know, I would love to round up the interview and talk about, you know, just what your view is in terms of, you know, where skincare is going these days.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: I know we have a lot of uh celebrity brands popping up, you know, here and there.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of consumers are, you know, like you said in the beginning, there's a lot of confusion, right?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I would love to get your take on where you think the industry is headed.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, do you think that this is something that's going to continue as it is?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Or I mean, what do you see in the foreseeable fruit future for this?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there's been absolutely just sort of a, for lack of a better word, just a glut of of skincare and a lot of really great things coming onto the market, of course, but there also is just a lot, right?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And like you just mentioned, you're right, there are tons of celebrities coming out with lines, and you know, I it's I've heard just a joke, like everybody has everybody has a skincare line nowadays.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there hopefully is, and I've actually read that this is a coming trend too.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really even just my feeling, but sort of a narrowing down of things, a return to minimalism, because I think that people may have really enjoyed getting to experiment with, for example, the 10-step skincare routine or trying lots of different products and things that work, um, seeing what works, what they like.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that people are really now almost feeling a bit overwhelmed by everything that's out there and all of the beautiful imagery and all of the wonderful marketing messaging and all of that.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that people are really going to continue on this emerging trend of really looking towards science and looking actually to hopefully to the experts to really tell them.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I've even noticed um lately that some of the celebrity skincare lines have really been promoting that they're partnering with dermatologists.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I believe that skincare needs to be developed by those who really understand it and it needs to be taken very seriously.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you agree with me, like we were just talking about dosing and you know, earlier in the conversation.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that people are just getting really smart and they want to see um, okay, this is this is where I'm gonna put my money, this is where I'm gonna put my faith and my time and and invest in my skin.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to know for sure that it's going to work.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's a like a little bit of a paring down, and that's exciting to me.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I also I think that one other trend right now is is um devices and sort of enhanced things and sort of smarter beauty tech type of things.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually really fun too.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's very true, actually.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even think about that.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're right.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of um tools and stuff.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: How do you how do you feel about those?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do you think there's like a lot of um hype or do you think some of them might be uh uh worthwhile investing in?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it totally depends.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as with anything, there are a lot of a lot on the market, and there are a lot of good ones and a lot of those that are not quite as good and worthwhile.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: I fully believe in energy, and um, my brother is a radiation oncologist, and one of the most striking conversations we've had is how we each use energy in our practices.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I use energy in my practice to stimulate collagen.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: He uses it to cure cancer.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: He literally points a beam of energy at somebody to eradicate a tumor.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's fascinating.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of how that relates to home skincare devices, of course, we do a lot of lasers and devices in the office, but I think that um, you know, I read some studies on microcurrent, and I think that that's interesting.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know that it has definitely at the very least a temporary effect, and it may have some longer-term effects as well, but it gives the skin a boost.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also am interested in looking more into how that relates to neurotoxin injections because there's some talk around maybe it can actually potentiate them and make make Botox last longer, for example, something like that by giving the muscles a little stimulation.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also have recently um started using a device that, like an all like a sonic facial cleansing device, not the bristle one, but the silicone device.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I really think that's amazing.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Stimulating blood flow to the skin.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a little bit new, but old, like it just makes sense.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's old-fashioned, but it's like a newer device with an old-fashioned message.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, stimulate blood flow.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to clean the skin, increase blood flow to the skin, can only do good things.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there is value in these things.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that's really cool.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you mentioned that.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: I I, for example, I love Foreo.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: I can't live without Foreign.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what I'm referring to.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: I just can't get enough.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, same.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, same.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a really, really cool, you know, set of products.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I I think that's really interesting that you mentioned that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I completely agree with you.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think with blood flow and especially the energy part that you said, I I think that's very fascinating indeed, you know, that you can use it for so many different reasons and based on how you are, you know, targeting, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like your approach, it's your it's your intention of what you're doing with these, you know, new technologies.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: But I I think it's very fascinating as well.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I I love that you kind of gave us a a nice overview of dermatology.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I I thank you very much for your time.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: This has been such a lovely episode, and it's been so wonderful hosting you.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for having me.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've loved talking to you as well.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And everyone listening, uh, definitely check out uh Dr.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus's brand and also leave us any kind of uh feedback you have about this episode.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: If you have any questions or any concerns or comments, definitely leave them and then we will pass them to Dr.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Marcus's team.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yeah, just stay tuned because we will have more episodes coming up.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 38:18
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