Latest / Health Tech & Wellness Podcast / Why You're Not Grieving Wrong (How to Deal with Grief & Loss)
Transcript
- John Adams: Okay. Welcome back to another week of the Health Tech and Wellness Podcast. I'm John Adams. Crystal Nevedale: And I'm Crystal Nevidale. John Adams: This week we want to talk about grief because grief is one of the few things that every single one of us are going to experience at multiple times in our life. But yet somehow it's also one of those things that we're least prepared for, even though we experience it so much. We don't get a handbook for it. We don't get instructions, right? I wish we were born with instructions. We're born learning how to say no and lie, right? But we're not born with instructions to deal with grief. And despite whatever you've heard over the years, there isn't just one right way to grieve. Even though, and I've experienced this in my life where I've had friends or family members say to me, I just I don't know, maybe I I I feel like I should be grieving differently. I don't know why this is affecting me this way. There's no right way, there's no wrong way, right? So today we kind of want to talk about that. Kind of how to deal with people that are grieving, how we deal with grieve on our sides. There's so there's no right answer. There's no wrong answer, but we want to just kind of talk about it, right? ⁓ so today I I just want to talk about like some of the things that I read that psychologists were saying. Look, at the end of the day, I honestly don't think that they really have it downpacked either. They kind of make it pretty simple. ⁓ they talk about the five stages of grief, and quite honestly, I think that. I've seen it all. I've lived it all. And you know, many of you kind of know if if you listen and you know us personally. ⁓ my wife Cindy, her mom just passed away. And you know, I try to be there for her. That's really all I can do. And I'll explain what I mean by that in a minute. And if you were listening right before we went on break, you know, for the four-week break, that last episode, right before we went on air, a good friend of mine. passed away and we kind of did an episode with me trying to figure out okay how am I going to make this phone call after I get off to talk to his spouse. ⁓ so long story short, what I kind of want to get into is when you think about grief and we think about, you know, the all these things. And I was trying to come up with a topic for this week. It just it it's a perfect timing, right? And not because me or Crystal have any of the answers, because we don't. Not because, you know, I've looked up some stuff with some psychologists said and they talk about the five, you know, levels of grief and steps of grief. Because I don't think that's a hundred percent either. But because grief is something that every one of us will eventually face if you haven't already. And you're gonna face it multiple times in your life. And I honestly think that one of the biggest misconceptions, like I've already said. Is that they're all the same, that that they're follow supposed to follow some timeline, right? You start this way and then over time it gets easier. Some people it might. Some people, you know, three years later you're sitting and you see something, it reminds you, and you know, it's it's like it all comes right back. So At the end of the day, I just want to talk about, you know, get rid of the psychology piece. And we just want to talk about our personal experiences and things that you know we've seen with other people, ourselves. I know when my dad passed away, it was so much different than when my mom passed away. I know for Cindy, when her dad passed away, it's so much different, right? ⁓ when my brother Raymond passed away, it was a whole different experience. Some people, you know, they cry immediately. Some people you become incredible and just get really busy. You get busy work, right? You're always trying to keep busy. Sometimes you'll throw yourself into your job or your work. Sometimes you might just become real quiet and kind of, you know, into yourself. Some people find help in just being around other people, right? So there's no right answer. There's no wrong answer. And none of those responses automatically mean that somebody's grieving either, just because maybe they're quiet or whatever. Again, we just kind of want to dig into this. So, Crystal, like in your life, in your experiences with grief, ⁓ have you noticed like any patterns that you see? Cause quite honestly, I feel like we all experience it a little bit different, right? Crystal Nevedale: I just feel like everybody honestly, depending on the situation, th no two losses are the same ever. No two people experiencing the same and you don't even experience them within yourself the same in my personal opinion. Like you were talking about your dad, you know, a difference between your dad and your mom. So I I'll quick say something with I had a grandfather that died suddenly on a car in a motorcycle accident and I had a grandfather in which I got to stay by his bedside till he passed. John Adams: Yeah. What Crystal Nevedale: So those two different kinds of grief were extremely different. One was very traumatic and lasted longer and was harder to deal with. And the other one I didn't have any trouble sleeping with because I felt like I had I was able to say goodbye. So I mean it's always different. Circumstances change everything really. John Adams: Yeah, yeah. And and and just like you said, you know, I can't explain, you know, I was close with both my parents. And I know, you know, everybody says, ⁓ you have a different relationship with your mom than your dad, but I can't explain why it tore me up so bad with my mom. But one thing I can tell you, and this is why I'm so careful with Cindy and what I say and or with anybody else that's dealing with it. ⁓ when my mom and I I said this, you know, last week on the episode ⁓ we ⁓ there was a topic came up we were talking about i think because we were talking about my ⁓ city's mom was getting close and one of the things that really in in it it sounds stupid and i apologize you know trigger one but it used to irritate me whenever somebody would come up and say I understand I've been there yeah I lost my parents you know what you don't understand we don't look I lost my mom I lost my dad She's lost her mom. She's lost her day. I don't understand. I I'm not her, right? I don't know what's in her head. I don't know her feelings. I know she was close with her mom. I know she was right there at the very end, watching her take her last breath. But I don't know, right? So at the end of the day. Just being there for people, right? That's the biggest thing. So when you're dealing with somebody that's dealing with grief, one of the biggest things that I can tell everybody, and this is take this advice and run with it. Being there, being present, listening, letting them talk if they want to, that matters so much more than any piece of, yeah, I understand. Cause I'll be honest, I don't. I've been there and I don't understand. So that was just kind of one of the personal things that I dealt with. have you ever experienced that in your your life, Crystal, where you just didn't want to hear it at that moment, maybe? Crystal Nevedale: No. You know, to be honest with you, like John Adams: I know Uh-huh. Crystal Nevedale: never really dealt with anything like that. Like I view things very different now. I mean when my younger years, you know, I when I lost my son, ⁓ I just went right back to work. I mean I had my son and I was back to work in three days. So every situation is different. But no one, you know, I think with that grief, I wish someone would have said anything. I think people avoided me. People didn't know what to say. And so in being in that side of it, John Adams: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Crystal Nevedale: I wish someone would have said anything. Anything would have made me feel better. Anything being like, hey, I'm so sorry for your loss. ⁓ I I wouldn't even have minded if they said they understood, because there are people who experience things differently. It wouldn't have bothered me. But I felt like at that time, I was very young. I was only ⁓ twenty three. So I would have just enjoyed someone to say that. Like, I'm there or John Adams: Yeah. Crystal Nevedale: But people just didn't know what to say. And that was understandable too. Now that I'm older, I get like people were uncomfortable because they don't want to say the wrong thing. But when I I want to touch on this too, I know it bothered you when someone said that when you were grieving and stuff. But I think that the the human nature of it is that we want to connect with someone. Even if we don't get it, we don't understand it, we haven't experienced it. It's like our way of saying, I'm listening. Even if it's like I understand. John Adams: Yeah. Crystal Nevedale: What they're trying to say is they don't know what to say, but they're saying I'm listening to you. So I I think in my mind it's just my way of how I see things and how I think about things. And I I try to understand that like nobody always knows what to say or if they're just trying to be there. And and so and being on the cusp of having someone not say anything to me and wanting someone to say something so that our experiences were completely different in that aspect. John Adams: No, and that that's the entire point of this episode is everybody grieves differently, right? So in my, you know, my circumstance, I felt like, you know, whenever but somebody would say that to me, like, no, you don't, because this is killing me. There's no way you understood. Maybe they did, but that's how it, you know, I felt to me, you know. And I know they were genuine. I know they were trying to say things to make me feel better or help me get through it. And I appreciate every single one of them that did. Don't get me wrong. Crystal Nevedale: Yeah. Right. John Adams: It's just during that moment, I'm like, man, you know, I I ⁓ no, you don't, you know, because that's just how it hit me. ⁓ but yes, definitely in your token. That's why I say, you know, if you're dealing with somebody that is grieving, you know, being there, you know, saying anything, ⁓ you know, in my case, I try to avoid the, you know, I know what you're you're going through because I didn't like it. But, you know, just being there and just saying, hey, you know, so sorry, you know, is there anything I can do for you? A hug, whatever, you know. Crystal Nevedale: Have you ever s have you ever tried to figure out why there was a difference in your father and your mom with your grieving? John Adams: Cindy has ex Go ahead. I mean, I was closer to my mom at the end, I think, but throughout our lives, no. My dad took me places. I went to Kentucky with my dad by myself. We I mean, we did all kinds of stuff. I just think Crystal Nevedale: Do you think it's because your dad was or your mom was still there? So you when you lost your dad, like you had her as your support too? Do you think maybe it was something like that? John Adams: That's very possible. it it's very possible, yes. And I think the other part and and I thought of this in the past and this kind of is my only answer other than yes, that she was kind of there still as the support during that. My dad was always strong. My dad was not always a great man. My dad was not always a great father or a great husband, but you know, towards the end he was amazing. You know, he found, you know, he found a way around. things right and he came back and and made his amends with everybody. ⁓ but he was always this strong like guy and and he could handle himself right ⁓ my mother took it really hard when he passed and we watched her kind of go through that. My mom was as strong as I think she was like I think she would whip somebody's ass you know she would fight for her kids. She was, you know, but she was more feeble, not as I didn't see her as as this strong figure, right? So I think when when she passed it it tore me up 'cause it I don't know, it's just it was that's the only explanation I can give. ⁓ Crystal Nevedale: Did you, ⁓ when you lost your mom, did you revert back to the grief with your father at that same time? Because that's another thing, because now you are parentless. So that's a whole nother thing. So I mean, just digging deeper on that those thoughts. I know you probably don't want to go through all that on here, but John Adams: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. But I hear, just to be, you know, throw a little thing, me and Cindy were just trying to laugh a little bit, right? And, you know, we find, you know, humor and things trying to just, you know, laugh, just at whatever we can, right? And we said to each other, you know, we should go home and watch Little Orphan Annie. It's hard. You know what I mean? Just trying to laugh, right? And she loved it, you know, and and and Crystal Nevedale: Right. John Adams: So those are the few things where, you know, we do find some comfort, you know. ⁓ plus I think with with both of us too, and it it is hard as it hit for me, I think she, you know, I mean, her mom was everything. She was on her phone with her mom every day and for sometimes for hours, you know. ⁓ so hers is so much even different more, you know. but yeah, I did. I think when mom passed away, it did bring me back to the everything because you gotta look. ⁓ shortly after that, we you know, Raymond pass. I mean, it was just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom in that period of time. ⁓ but even Raymond, I think the experience of being in the room when he passed was different to it just every that's the whole purp point behind this. I think we all handle grief so different at different times. but yeah, I think you're right. When go looking back, it did bring back, you know, some of the other thoughts that I, you know, maybe didn't deal with when dad passed away. I will tell you this, and and going back to that, you know, tough person, right? ⁓ when he got dementia and, you know, mom was raising Diane already with Down syndrome. And their doctor basically told my mom, you cannot raise, you can't take care of Diane and Walker, right? You you have to do something and and With his dementia, he's gonna get violent and stuff like that. So the day that we put him in the home and I was working and I didn't get to go, so I went after work. And it was the very first day. And this tough SOB of a man that I've seen my entire life was sitting there with his hands in his lap and just looking down. And the little tray came by and they said, Walker, do you want a pudding? That, that, more than his death, tore me up. I got in the car on my way home. I called Cindy and balled. Absolutely. Different circumstance. He's still alive. He's still there. But seeing. Yeah. Crystal Nevedale: But you it's lost. You've lost who he was. You lost the the strength that you used to see him in him. I mean I get that too. And I feel like sometimes John Adams: Yeah. Crystal Nevedale: the loss when someone is alive, the grief that when someone's alive and you can't be near them or is hard to like, I don't know if you remember I had that little boy that I had for a little while. You remember Chloe's son. and I had him for a year and a half and then I also picked him up every Sunday through tur Tuesday for another year and a half. So when I decided in 2020 when they told me I just needed to write him letters, John Adams: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Crystal Nevedale: It tore me apart. And I I'm not even exaggerating. It was six months before I could have any conversation about him without crying my eyes out. I mean, I was his mommy. Like, so it was really tough. So that kind of grief, even losing my son, losing Blaze was harder than losing my son. I didn't have those experiences. I didn't have that connection. I hadn't had that experience with my child that I I gave birth, you know, at six months. John Adams: Right. Crystal Nevedale: ⁓ so I didn't have all those experience and those memories to keep reliving in my mind over and over again. So that kind of grief to me was even harder than losing my biological child out of my body. And that's and that's the point. Like grief is so different. You know, it it John Adams: For everybody. Yeah. That's that's a a huge thing in in in what you just said. That that's a prime example, you know. The child was, you know, part of you for so long and then you lost it, but you didn't have the same connection as you did with a child that biologically wasn't yours, but was yours for a year and a half. So ⁓ Crystal Nevedale: Right. Right. John Adams: So that's kind of why we we really want to go into this. And if would you it's and it's so hard. It's just like, you know, being there for somebody that is grieving. But if there was a piece of advice that you could give somebody who is dealing with a person that's grieving, not a grieving person, of course, because they're they're dealing with their own things and we just want to be there. ⁓ but for somebody that's dealing with somebody that's grieving, that is trying to be there, to be that strong person, to show them that you're there for them. Is there any advice that you could give if if there was one? Crystal Nevedale: Just be kind and ask what they what they need. Don't just assume you know what they need. Just ask. Hey, because sometimes people want to be alone. Sometimes in their grief, they just want to be alone. They don't want the telephone call. They don't want someone showing up unexpected. They don't want the the card. They don't want those things. So I mean, sometimes just asking somebody what they need. Hey, I know you're having a tough time. Is there anything you need? Do you need me to bring food? Do you need me to order something? Do you need anything? And then people will usually tell you, like, look, I'm not interested of anything. I'll call you when I'm ready. Or they'll let you know what they need. So that would be my suggestion. John Adams: One hundred percent. I I say the same, you know, reach out once, show ⁓ that you're there, give ⁓ the opportunity. And then if if space is what they need, let ⁓ have it. And if if it's being there with ⁓ you know, then do that. ⁓ biggest thing is just, you know, show ⁓ that you care, be there and and let them Crystal Nevedale: And I want to say something to the person that is grieving. The best way, in my opinion, because I've been through it on many different levels, children, close ones, anyhow. Find somebody else to take care of. Do something nice for someone else. Look around you. I can guarantee every one of us has someone in the family that needs help. Whether it's they can't get to their housework, ⁓ they need help with their kids, they don't have enough money for this bill or that bill. Do something nice for someone else and put yourself aside for a minute and realize like they're all everybody's struggling. But if you can just give of yourself, it will give it will heal pieces of you that you can't heal sitting in a dark room by yourself. John Adams: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ reach out to somebody. W whether it's the yeah, yeah. Reach out. You know, sometimes seeing that you're helping somebody else sometimes can help that, you know. ⁓ d for sure. No, that's that's one hundred percent. ⁓ the one thing that I hope that people kind of take away from this entire episode is don't be those people that I've heard in the past that I and Crystal Nevedale: Yeah. Just help other people. John Adams: And I could tell you at least six people that I've heard this from, whether it's one kind of grief or another, of I just, I don't know, I feel bad because I I just feel like I'm not grieving the way I should. And and I've heard it from a daughter about a family member or about a father. I've heard it about a brother and a sister. It just ⁓ you it you don't have to feel bad about that. Everybody grieves different and every person is gonna touch you differently, whether it's, you know, who however they were in your life, right? ⁓ you're not broken. It's not you're a bad person. It's you know, and grieving has different time, right? Not ever Yeah. Yeah. Crystal Nevedale: Sometimes it's a smell. Sometimes it's a place. Sometimes it's a song. Sometimes it's all kinds of things make it possible for us to grieve. Sometimes it's someone else's experience that makes you be able to grieve. Like sometimes it's it's so random. You could be having a perfectly wonderful day, and then this person walks in and they have the same voice or the same hair or the same eyes, or and then you're able to grieve. And that's okay to be. blubbery mess at that point because maybe you couldn't cry for six weeks or but it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you that you did or didn't cry or didn't ⁓ break down or like it's all on your own timing. John Adams: That's the thing. And and it could be three years later and then all of a sudden that that moment's gonna happen. ⁓ so you know, that's the biggest thing is is you're not broken. You're not, it's nothing wrong with you, whether you're grieving overly or you feel like you're not grieving enough. You know, it's normal. We're all different and everybody grieves differently. Again, you can go online and you can read and you can see where they talk about, you know, the five steps of grieving and all this. Throw that out the window. Human beings are made to be different. We all have different minds and different feelings. and you you said it straightforward, you know. It just takes one thing to pop up, right? A smell or or you're going through your phone and you see a picture or anything. And You know, it's so different. ⁓ I was gonna bring up a topic, but I won't bring it up just out of respect for ⁓ Cindy, but off air, I wanna bring something up to you so remind me. ⁓ I'll edit that out. ⁓ just it popped into my head. I was gonna say it and I'm like, yeah, I'll I'll leave that out. Okay, anyway. ⁓ so yeah, so if anybody out there is dealing with grief right now, if you need somebody to talk to, there's you know, the crisis hotline is not just because you're Crystal Nevedale: Okay. John Adams: Considering hurting yourself. You there's people there that can listen. There's your friends, there's family. If you feel like there's nobody to reach out to, throw it in our comments. I would love for us to see a comment and help you, right? Maybe, maybe there's not something we can say other than, yeah, you know what, you've got this, right? ⁓ but you know, if you got to call the crisis hotline, do that. If you got to call You know, put it in the comments, do that. If you gotta reach out to somebody, do that. If you just gotta sit in your room, put on some loud music and just veg, do that too. At the end of the day, everybody grieves different. And if you're the person trying to support somebody that's grieving, it's simply showing up. It's simply just saying, hey, I'm here. If they need the space and they don't want that right now, give them the space. But if they do, invite you in. Just be there, show up, listen, be present. And remember that they just remind them, right, that they don't have to carry it alone. So anything else from you, Crystal? Crystal Nevedale: That's about it. John Adams: Okay. Well, next week we're gonna talk about something really similar to this. So I'm gonna open the episode next week with a question and I'm gonna end this same question or this episode with that question. ⁓ that way if you're listening to this and you've got a whole week to think about it. But the question I'm gonna open up next week's episode with is how are you? Think on that. Cause we're gonna go into that next week. So thank you guys so much for spending the part of your day with us. We really appreciate it. And if this comment or this and if this conversation helped you at all, or if you know somebody who's walking through grief right now, we'd really appreciate it if you just share this episode with them. Let them know that hey, we've all not been there, but we all know that grieving is different. You're not broken. If you're dealing with it one way, it's okay. If you're dealing with it with another way, it's okay. But Be there for them, share this with them and let them know that this too will pass. So until next time, guys, as always, stay healthy and keep driving forward. We'll see you next time. Crystal Nevedale: Stay balanced.