Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #122 Crap Housewives, IVF & Mental Health (Featuring Jessica Rowe)

Transcript

#122 Crap Housewives, IVF & Mental Health (Featuring Jessica Rowe) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: This is the Parenting in Perspective podcast. It's a happy
0:07
Speaker 1: Families podcast. My name's doctor Justin Colson. Thanks so much
0:10
Speaker 1: for being a part of these in depth podcast discussions.
0:14
Speaker 1: This is episode three of a really engaging series that
0:18
Speaker 1: we've just started where we dig deep with a wide
0:20
Speaker 1: variety of guests to unpack and discover what can make
0:24
Speaker 1: parenting incredible as well as finding out how families flourish.
0:29
Speaker 1: Today's guest Jessica Rowe, along with her husband Peter Overton.
0:33
Speaker 1: The two of them combined well, I think we could
0:36
Speaker 1: fairly comfortably say that their Australian News Media Royalty. Jess
0:41
Speaker 1: has been honored with a Member of the Order of
0:43
Speaker 1: Australia for her long broadcasting career as well as her
0:46
Speaker 1: untiring work in mental health advocacy. Jess first appeared on
0:51
Speaker 1: our TV screens in the mid nineteen nineties and over
0:54
Speaker 1: the years has co hosted Network ten's First at five News,
0:57
Speaker 1: has read news on weekend Sunrise, and I hosted Studio
1:01
Speaker 1: ten and The Today Show. Aside from being one of
1:04
Speaker 1: the most recognizable faces on Ossie TV, Jessica Rose also
1:08
Speaker 1: a podcaster, a published author, a keynote speaker and more importantly,
1:13
Speaker 1: mum to two beautiful young ladies. And Jess's also a
1:17
Speaker 1: self confessed to crap housewife, so I began by asking
1:21
Speaker 1: just why she sees herself this way.
1:25
Speaker 2: I've got a beautiful husband. I've been married to my
1:28
Speaker 2: darling husband, Peter for seventeen years. We've got two gorgeous daughters,
1:33
Speaker 2: Allegra who is thirteen and Giselle, who's eleven. And why
1:38
Speaker 2: I'm a proud crap housewife is first and foremost. I
1:42
Speaker 2: think it's so important not to take ourselves too seriously.
1:46
Speaker 2: I've found laughter for me has been a wonderful way
1:50
Speaker 2: to get through difficult times. But also I think to
1:54
Speaker 2: laugh at myself and what I have embraced. The older
1:58
Speaker 2: I get, the more comfortable I am in my skin,
2:01
Speaker 2: but the more comfortable I am with being open about
2:05
Speaker 2: my imperfection. I have struggles, like all of us do.
2:10
Speaker 2: I am a crap housewife. I'm a terrible cook. Cooking
2:14
Speaker 2: does not interest me.
2:15
Speaker 1: Now I've got to interrupt you there, Jess, because I mean,
2:19
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not. I love the snort. I'm not
2:22
Speaker 1: an Instagram person at all. My team looks after my
2:25
Speaker 1: Instagram for me, but I do pop on there every
2:27
Speaker 1: now and again, and you're one person that I have
2:31
Speaker 1: followed for years on Instagram simply because of the relationship
2:34
Speaker 1: that we share. In fact, let me go on a
2:37
Speaker 1: quick tangent from this tangent. The first time that you
2:41
Speaker 1: and I met, I was sitting in the green room
2:43
Speaker 1: at Studio ten, Channel ten. We were getting ready to
2:45
Speaker 1: go on the TV and you stepped into the room
2:48
Speaker 1: with wide eyes. You looked at me with this huge
2:50
Speaker 1: smile and said, excuse me, are you doctor Justin Coulson,
2:54
Speaker 1: which was the funniest thing. I'm thinking to myself, what
2:59
Speaker 1: how did this have? This is one of those twilight
3:01
Speaker 1: Zone moments. I'm the one that's supposed to be saying,
3:02
Speaker 1: aren't you Jessica Rowe, And you're looking at me going
3:04
Speaker 1: because you've been reading some of my articles in the
3:06
Speaker 1: newspaper and you came in just gushing about how helpful
3:09
Speaker 1: my articles were made my day, and so pretty much
3:11
Speaker 1: from then, I've followed you on Instagram because I was like,
3:13
Speaker 1: anybody who makes me feel that good, I've got to
3:16
Speaker 1: be involved in some kind of a relationship with, even
3:18
Speaker 1: if it's just on social media. With your bajillion other fans.
3:21
Speaker 1: But what cracks me up about your social media feed
3:24
Speaker 1: is almost daily you take photos of the evening meal
3:28
Speaker 1: that you prepare. And what I love about this is,
3:31
Speaker 1: and please forgive me for being a little bit bold
3:33
Speaker 1: when I say this, but you're kind of you're a celebrity, right.
3:37
Speaker 1: You've got celebrity status, whether you're comfortable with the term
3:41
Speaker 1: or not. You've got a huge following, and you could
3:46
Speaker 1: probably eat in fancy restaurants or at least get uber
3:49
Speaker 1: eats every night of the week for the rest of
3:51
Speaker 1: your life. You could never ever cook, but instead you're
3:54
Speaker 1: kind of like, no, well, I'm a housewife and I
3:56
Speaker 1: am cooking, but I'm hopeless at it. But I'm going
3:58
Speaker 1: to celebrate that anyway. And so you're Your Instagram feed
4:00
Speaker 1: is full of baked beans on toast, and it is
4:03
Speaker 1: baked beans.
4:04
Speaker 2: On toast, mince many different ways every way. Spaghetti bolonnaise
4:09
Speaker 2: last night, So I'm probably going to reinvent that spag
4:13
Speaker 2: bold and mince either Shepherd's pie to night, make some
4:16
Speaker 2: mashed potato, put it on the top, or do something
4:20
Speaker 2: else with it. I'm not quite sure, because I think
4:22
Speaker 2: mince is a highly undiracted meat. You cannot overcook it,
4:28
Speaker 2: you can't burn it. And also kids will eat it.
4:33
Speaker 2: The number of times when I would attempt to do
4:36
Speaker 2: something different or follow a recipe or do something a
4:40
Speaker 2: bit fancy, my daughters will go, I don't like it,
4:42
Speaker 2: don't want to eat it. So that is very demoralizing.
4:46
Speaker 1: Have you tried the master chef praise like? Have you
4:48
Speaker 1: stepped in and thought, no, tonight, we're going to do something.
4:51
Speaker 2: You just know life is too short for me. I
4:55
Speaker 2: appreciate that for some people they find that relaxing, but
4:58
Speaker 2: for me, I would put my fork in my eye
5:02
Speaker 2: attempt some complicated meal. But you know what what brings
5:07
Speaker 2: me joy, though, is my daughters love my spag bowl.
5:11
Speaker 2: And a number of years ago my youngest daughter said
5:14
Speaker 2: to me, Mommy, this is so good. You should be
5:17
Speaker 2: on Mastership. And that was enough for me to get
5:21
Speaker 2: that endorsement from my girls. And that is why I
5:25
Speaker 2: suppose I do post my everyday life on Instagram, what
5:30
Speaker 2: I cook for my family, my messy house, my baskets
5:34
Speaker 2: of laundry, because it's a way of sort of saying
5:38
Speaker 2: we're all in this together. I mean, I know that's
5:42
Speaker 2: a terrible cliche. But it's sort of I want to
5:45
Speaker 2: be honest about my life and what our real life
5:49
Speaker 2: looks like. And what I get from my Instagram is
5:53
Speaker 2: I've met this wonderful community of fellow crap housewives. We
5:57
Speaker 2: give each other, you know, recipes, we give each other
6:01
Speaker 2: kind of virtual pats on the back and say good
6:03
Speaker 2: on you, and all those sorts of things which we
6:07
Speaker 2: now I think need more than ever as opposed to
6:10
Speaker 2: feeling like, oh, my goodness, I'm not good enough. Because
6:14
Speaker 2: you know, social media can be good, but it also
6:17
Speaker 2: can be negative in the sense that often people will
6:20
Speaker 2: look at other people's Facebook, Instagram, whatever and sort of
6:24
Speaker 2: feel inadequate and think, oh no, my life doesn't look
6:28
Speaker 2: like that. What's wrong with me? So let's take the
6:30
Speaker 2: pressure off one another.
6:32
Speaker 1: I just there's so many things that I want to
6:33
Speaker 1: pick up on there, and I'm not going to my
6:35
Speaker 1: brain can't possibly pull them all together. But a couple
6:38
Speaker 1: of things that I quickly want to highlight. First of all,
6:41
Speaker 1: your daughters love your spaghetti bolonnaise and think that it's
6:44
Speaker 1: good enough to be a master chef like that, in
6:47
Speaker 1: and of itself, sends I think a really profoundly important
6:50
Speaker 1: message to mums or even dads who are listening to
6:55
Speaker 1: this conversation like it's okay to be okay. And it's
6:59
Speaker 1: not that it's a celebration of mediocrity, because you've got
7:02
Speaker 1: extraordinary strengths and have had extraordinary successes in a range
7:05
Speaker 1: of places. But my sense is you're looking at what
7:08
Speaker 1: your strengths are and saying, well, I'm going to play
7:10
Speaker 1: to my strengths and I'm just going to manage the
7:11
Speaker 1: other stuff, and I'm going to be okay with just
7:13
Speaker 1: managing the other stuff and not expecting perfection in every
7:16
Speaker 1: single domain. That's what I'm hearing, and.
7:19
Speaker 2: You're so right justin it was something that took a
7:22
Speaker 2: lot of time for me to get to a place
7:25
Speaker 2: where I could realize that I am enough that I
7:29
Speaker 2: don't have to be perfect at everything in my life.
7:33
Speaker 2: Parenting is not a competition. Life isn't a competition, and
7:37
Speaker 2: I have come to realize that, yes, there are some
7:41
Speaker 2: things that I'm very good at, and I will play
7:44
Speaker 2: to my strengths, but at the same time, I will
7:47
Speaker 2: embrace my imperfection and embrace my vulnerability and realize that
7:53
Speaker 2: that is okay. Part of that is with humor laughing
7:57
Speaker 2: at myself, but also embracing the fact that I am
8:00
Speaker 2: a proud craft housewife. But that's okay, because no, I'm
8:04
Speaker 2: not good at that, But there's plenty of other things
8:06
Speaker 2: that I am good at and I can put my
8:09
Speaker 2: energy into.
8:10
Speaker 1: Now. I want to pick up on something else that you've
8:12
Speaker 1: talked about, because you've alluded a couple of times already
8:14
Speaker 1: to some of the challenges that you've had in your
8:18
Speaker 1: life and the way they've refined and directed your thinking
8:22
Speaker 1: to where it is now, this need to laugh at
8:24
Speaker 1: life and be relaxed about things. You've got this profile,
8:28
Speaker 1: the fame, if you will, because of the extraordinary work
8:31
Speaker 1: that you've done over the years in journalism, and you've
8:33
Speaker 1: been very, very public as a personality. But just because
8:39
Speaker 1: everyone knows who you are, and just because you've got
8:41
Speaker 1: the TV life, it doesn't mean the life's easy. And
8:44
Speaker 1: over the years, you've written and spoken a lot about
8:46
Speaker 1: some of the major challenges that life has thrown your way.
8:49
Speaker 1: I recall that you said when you went through IVF
8:51
Speaker 1: you felt like you were a failure as a as
8:55
Speaker 1: a mum and a failure as a woman.
8:57
Speaker 2: And absolutely I felt in that way, and I think
9:02
Speaker 2: what I is important to get across too, is that yes,
9:06
Speaker 2: I'm in the public eye, but each and every one
9:09
Speaker 2: of us has a story, and just because I'm in
9:12
Speaker 2: the public eye doesn't make my story either more profound
9:16
Speaker 2: or important or meaningful. It's just I suppose it gives
9:20
Speaker 2: me a chance to talk about it, because I'm a
9:22
Speaker 2: huge believer in there has to be something more meaningful
9:28
Speaker 2: that comes out of having a profile. Both of my
9:31
Speaker 2: parents taught me in different ways about the importance of
9:33
Speaker 2: giving back. So for me, I feel very passionately about
9:38
Speaker 2: sharing parts of my story because it isn't just necessarily
9:43
Speaker 2: something that's happened to me. It's something that impacts on
9:46
Speaker 2: so many of us. So speaking about IVS is something
9:50
Speaker 2: that I do talk about because Darling Allegra, who's now thirteen,
9:55
Speaker 2: we had her through IVS. And I was someone who
10:00
Speaker 2: when I in my early life, I was someone who
10:03
Speaker 2: I was a perfectionist. I was ambitious with my career.
10:07
Speaker 2: I had ideas about how my life would turn out,
10:11
Speaker 2: and if I worked really hard and did all the
10:15
Speaker 2: right things, I'd tick all the right boxes and everything
10:18
Speaker 2: would fall into place. Part of that then included when
10:21
Speaker 2: I met my darling husband we got married. Part of
10:24
Speaker 2: that then was, of course, I'm going to be a mum,
10:26
Speaker 2: and that's something that will come easily, that will be natural,
10:30
Speaker 2: that won't be won't be a challenge. I had no
10:34
Speaker 2: idea that I would have problems becoming pregnant. And when
10:39
Speaker 2: I did realize that that it wasn't going to come
10:43
Speaker 2: easily to us, I did feel like a failure because
10:47
Speaker 2: there's almost that I don't know why, but there's sometimes
10:51
Speaker 2: that innate part of us as women that you think,
10:54
Speaker 2: if I can't be a mother, there's something missing, there's
10:58
Speaker 2: something wrong with me. Part of being a woman for me,
11:02
Speaker 2: very much is about yes, I can be a mom
11:05
Speaker 2: and I will be a mother. And when I was
11:07
Speaker 2: confronted with that question mark over, you know what, maybe
11:13
Speaker 2: maybe this won't happen for me, I did feel like
11:16
Speaker 2: a failure because I thought, well, who am I now?
11:19
Speaker 2: I had to find myself through my early life, my
11:23
Speaker 2: sort of career. Then I was now a wife, and
11:26
Speaker 2: then I was thinking, now I'm going to be a mom,
11:28
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, if I can't be a mom,
11:31
Speaker 2: what does that mean for me as a woman? And
11:34
Speaker 2: I think that was a very difficult confronting time for me,
11:39
Speaker 2: and then for anyone who goes through IVS, that is
11:43
Speaker 2: such a rollercoaster of a time, and anyone who goes
11:47
Speaker 2: through it, I think deserves a Bravery medal because nothing
11:52
Speaker 2: prepares you for this terrible but also wonderful journey of
12:00
Speaker 2: am I going to be pregnant? Or is this going
12:02
Speaker 2: to work? But nothing is guaranteed and nothing prepares you
12:08
Speaker 2: for that. And how I used to try and manage
12:12
Speaker 2: my expectation and that can be so crushing, But how
12:16
Speaker 2: I tried to manage that was I always would be hopeful,
12:23
Speaker 2: and I think hope in our lives, regardless of what
12:26
Speaker 2: it might be that we're going through, hope is so
12:29
Speaker 2: important and I would cling onto hope. And I think
12:34
Speaker 2: for all of us when we are going through challenges,
12:37
Speaker 2: you need to cling onto something. And we were very
12:41
Speaker 2: lucky because we were able to have a baby at
12:45
Speaker 2: the end of our IVF cycles, and I appreciate that
12:50
Speaker 2: for many other couples who go through it, that isn't
12:53
Speaker 2: going to happen. And that is such a heartbreaking, painful
12:59
Speaker 2: tearor thing to go through, and especially when you feel
13:04
Speaker 2: like it's just you going through IVF nothing prepares you
13:09
Speaker 2: for the sort of force of emotion that can take
13:13
Speaker 2: over you. And I think it's made me very mindful
13:18
Speaker 2: of other families, other couples, and the importance of being sensitive,
13:25
Speaker 2: because often people would sort of say what they thought
13:28
Speaker 2: was a nice or amusing thing to Peter and I about, Oh,
13:32
Speaker 2: come on, you two, when are you going to hurry
13:34
Speaker 2: up and have a family, you know, get on with it,
13:36
Speaker 2: all of those sorts of things exactly, and not realizing
13:40
Speaker 2: that we're in fact going through IVF at the time,
13:43
Speaker 2: and we were desperate to have a family. So I
13:46
Speaker 2: think it's really important to be sensitive in our conversations
13:51
Speaker 2: with those around us, or those close to us, or
13:54
Speaker 2: even just in casual conversation with people that we might
13:57
Speaker 2: know so well. We never know what other people are
14:01
Speaker 2: going through and the sorts of struggles that they are
14:04
Speaker 2: trying to deal with. And that's why for me, I've
14:09
Speaker 2: always been and as I get old and more open
14:12
Speaker 2: about what I've been through, because I know when I
14:16
Speaker 2: hear other people's stories, it's helped me enormously feel less alone,
14:21
Speaker 2: because when you do go through something like IVF, you
14:25
Speaker 2: feel like you're the only one and no one else understands,
14:28
Speaker 2: and no one else has been there, and in fact,
14:32
Speaker 2: there are plenty of people who do understand or are struggling,
14:36
Speaker 2: And I think perhaps if there are people listening who
14:39
Speaker 2: are going through this or considering it, just go gently
14:43
Speaker 2: on yourself and if you can hold on to that
14:48
Speaker 2: hope and don't give up.
14:50
Speaker 1: I want to pick up on what you said about hope.
14:52
Speaker 1: It was a recurring theme as much as you were
14:54
Speaker 1: talking about how you felt like a failure, and it
14:56
Speaker 1: was such a trying and invasive I think with out
15:00
Speaker 1: you're saying it explicitly. Underlying everything that you're saying is
15:03
Speaker 1: there's the physiological invasiveness of the IVF process, which is
15:09
Speaker 1: I guess it's almost traumatizing just physically to go through
15:13
Speaker 1: what you have to, but then the psychological invasiveness, this
15:18
Speaker 1: constant it's that wave up and down and up and
15:21
Speaker 1: down again and again. Is it going to work this time?
15:24
Speaker 1: Is it going to work this time? What happens if
15:25
Speaker 1: it doesn't work this time? We're going through all of
15:27
Speaker 1: this and what if? And this idea of hope that
15:31
Speaker 1: you've tapped into is something that I was really captured
15:35
Speaker 1: by a number of years ago when I was back
15:37
Speaker 1: at university and I was lecturing and doing the whole
15:39
Speaker 1: academic thing. Hope is different to optimism because hope isn't
15:42
Speaker 1: just saying I think good things are going to happen.
15:44
Speaker 1: I hope good things are going to happen. I believe
15:46
Speaker 1: in a positive future. Hope has three components that all
15:49
Speaker 1: need to be present so that we can be hope
15:51
Speaker 1: full instead of hopeless. And I heard those three components
15:57
Speaker 1: in your story. The first is that you've got to
16:00
Speaker 1: have a goal. People without goals or direction or vision
16:05
Speaker 1: or something that they're working towards, something they're striving for,
16:07
Speaker 1: are not hopeful. They're hopeless. If there's no point getting
16:11
Speaker 1: up and try to do whatever, then you're not going
16:13
Speaker 1: to be hopeful. You're going to be hopeless. So you've
16:16
Speaker 1: got that goal or that vision. The second thing that
16:18
Speaker 1: you need to have though as a pathway, and that's
16:21
Speaker 1: obviously what IVF was for you. It gave you hope
16:24
Speaker 1: because it was at least a pathway, whereas nothing else
16:28
Speaker 1: could even give you any hope at all. This was
16:30
Speaker 1: the path. And the third thing that you've got to
16:32
Speaker 1: have is an actual belief that you can walk down
16:35
Speaker 1: that path and my experience working with families, working with parents,
16:39
Speaker 1: working with individuals, not even in a family context, just
16:41
Speaker 1: working with people who are feeling hopeless, is more often
16:46
Speaker 1: than not, they don't feel hopeless because they don't have
16:48
Speaker 1: a goal. Everybody wants something in life, well almost everybody,
16:53
Speaker 1: and if they've got a goal, most people can work
16:55
Speaker 1: out some kind of a pathway to that goal. It's
16:58
Speaker 1: very rare that somebody says, this is what I want,
17:00
Speaker 1: but it's hopeless. I can never get there. Most people
17:02
Speaker 1: are like, well, I could try this or I could.
17:03
Speaker 1: You know, there are options and most people can usually
17:05
Speaker 1: see them. Where most people fall down is that self
17:09
Speaker 1: belief that I can actually walk along the pathway to
17:12
Speaker 1: get to the goal. And what I hear you saying is, yeah,
17:15
Speaker 1: I had the goal and I had the pathway, but
17:18
Speaker 1: the real challenge was picking myself up day after day
17:22
Speaker 1: and walking down that path and getting onto the pathway
17:25
Speaker 1: that will take me where I want to.
17:26
Speaker 3: Be exactly, and that sense of keeping going and for us,
17:36
Speaker 3: the desire, the yearning, the longing to be parents was
17:41
Speaker 3: what kept me going, and I was willing to keep
17:47
Speaker 3: going for as long as I physically, but more importantly,
17:52
Speaker 3: emotionally could do it.
17:54
Speaker 2: So I was determined to keep going. And because I
18:00
Speaker 2: was able to do that, I couldn't have There's no
18:02
Speaker 2: way I wouldn't. I could have done it on my own.
18:05
Speaker 2: Of course, I had my beautiful husband beside me. We
18:09
Speaker 2: were in it together, and I think that experience brought
18:14
Speaker 2: us so close to one another, and I appreciate though
18:18
Speaker 2: for some couples that isn't necessarily always the way. But
18:22
Speaker 2: we used to hold tight. It makes me emotional thinking
18:25
Speaker 2: about it to each other during this time because we
18:30
Speaker 2: could see how hard it was for each other, but
18:33
Speaker 2: we knew we had to hold tight. And also my
18:38
Speaker 2: family they knew, so they that was what kept us going,
18:44
Speaker 2: That we had this safety net of love around us
18:47
Speaker 2: that we knew were there for us, that would keep
18:51
Speaker 2: us going. And I'll never forget. And again I get
18:55
Speaker 2: teary thinking about it, justin when I rang Peace and
19:00
Speaker 2: he at the time we're going through the IVS, he
19:04
Speaker 2: was working for sixty minutes and he would be traveling
19:06
Speaker 2: up to eight months of the year, so we would
19:09
Speaker 2: have to time the cycles all of those sorts of
19:12
Speaker 2: things around his travel.
19:14
Speaker 1: And he no stress in that, no stress in that
19:17
Speaker 1: at all, No, exactly, just just to add another level
19:20
Speaker 1: of challenge and burdened to all.
19:22
Speaker 2: This, no layers of difficulty there. And he was in Italy,
19:27
Speaker 2: he was in Milan, and I remember he was waiting.
19:30
Speaker 2: He knew that this particular time that I'd be getting
19:34
Speaker 2: a call from the clinic about whether or not when
19:37
Speaker 2: I'd had the embryo transfer, whether or not the embryo
19:42
Speaker 2: had sort of taken so to speak, and was growing
19:45
Speaker 2: inside of me, And he knew that this particular day
19:48
Speaker 2: was approaching. So I rang Petie, and I think it
19:51
Speaker 2: was about two am in Milan, and I said to him,
19:56
Speaker 2: I said, you're going to be a dad. And the
19:59
Speaker 2: two of us just sobbed down the phone to each
20:02
Speaker 2: other because we couldn't believe that, after all this time,
20:08
Speaker 2: finally our prayers had been answered. But still it was
20:13
Speaker 2: early days, because of course, you know, with IVF you
20:16
Speaker 2: have the tests that much sooner than you do if
20:21
Speaker 2: you're sort of trying naturally, so to speak. So this
20:24
Speaker 2: was only I think it was ten days after the
20:28
Speaker 2: embryo had been transferred, So there was still so much
20:32
Speaker 2: sort of waiting and hoping and praying to get to
20:35
Speaker 2: that twelve week mark. But thankfully, you know, we called,
20:40
Speaker 2: we called the embryo Milano because because Pete was in
20:45
Speaker 2: Milan when I made this call, and thankfully Darling Milano,
20:49
Speaker 2: who turned into be Allegra, held on and we were
20:54
Speaker 2: blessed with this beautiful, healthy baby. But it was such
20:59
Speaker 2: it was such a time because even to know that, yes,
21:03
Speaker 2: you know, I was pregnant, there was still that holding
21:07
Speaker 2: our breath of is it going to last? Will this
21:09
Speaker 2: pregnancy be viable? Will will she keep growing? And we
21:14
Speaker 2: were blessed that Allegra did, and that is why you know,
21:17
Speaker 2: that hope, that tiny fingernail of hope that we clung
21:20
Speaker 2: onto early on, it did blossom and we got this beautiful,
21:25
Speaker 2: healthy baby, and it is such a miracle, and I
21:28
Speaker 2: think it's just extraordinary.
21:30
Speaker 1: I feel like I just want to sit and breathe
21:33
Speaker 1: in that phone call that you had with Pete while
21:36
Speaker 1: he was in Milan. I feel like I just want
21:38
Speaker 1: to savor that moment, hearing you talk about it and remembering.
21:42
Speaker 1: I mean, Kylie and I have been through that one
21:44
Speaker 1: six times. I wasn't in Italy when it happened, of course,
21:46
Speaker 1: but we've been through that, and I know how it
21:49
Speaker 1: felt for us, our excitement, our thrill. I can't, I mean,
21:54
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't think that I can comprehend what it
21:56
Speaker 1: must have been like for you to have that experience.
21:59
Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing that you've always been very, very strong,
22:04
Speaker 1: explicitly so about honoring your relationship with Peter. This is
22:11
Speaker 1: obviously a foundation for your family and a foundation for
22:14
Speaker 1: your life, your relationship with him. But I'm curious, with
22:18
Speaker 1: both of you working again in such a high profile
22:22
Speaker 1: and such a busy way, how have you been able
22:26
Speaker 1: to develop the relationship that you've developed. What have been
22:29
Speaker 1: the hallmarks, the traditions, the rituals, the things that you've
22:33
Speaker 1: done to sustain such a strong and honoring relationship together.
22:41
Speaker 2: Like anything that matters in life, it takes work and
22:47
Speaker 2: it's hard. There are times when I know I drive
22:50
Speaker 2: PD up the wall, and he drives me up the wall.
22:55
Speaker 2: But the thing is at our core, and I knew
22:59
Speaker 2: this when I met. He's a good, decent, wonderful man
23:05
Speaker 2: and and he's my life partner and PD, I know
23:11
Speaker 2: that he is always in my corner the same way
23:15
Speaker 2: I am for him. And we're very different as people, Pete,
23:20
Speaker 2: We're like Yin and Yang. Really p D's much more
23:23
Speaker 2: sensible and grounded, and I'm much sort of more I
23:27
Speaker 2: suppose eccentric, especially as I get older, more eccentric, silly
23:32
Speaker 2: light and I sort of can sort of drift off
23:35
Speaker 2: a bit. But he grounds me whereas I lighten him.
23:40
Speaker 2: So we're a good partnership. We bring out the best
23:43
Speaker 2: in one another, and we're great friends and we're a
23:47
Speaker 2: good team.
23:48
Speaker 1: How do you make that happen? Though, Like I'm thinking
23:50
Speaker 1: of I'm thinking of the couples who are listening to
23:52
Speaker 1: this right now, and they're thinking, well, we used to
23:54
Speaker 1: like each other. Do you think that I'm like you
23:58
Speaker 1: used to be so much fun and now just an
24:00
Speaker 1: obnoxious jerk? You know, I'm sure that there's not a
24:03
Speaker 1: lot of that going on, but it does happen. How
24:05
Speaker 1: do we build that back into a relationship when it's
24:08
Speaker 1: snuffed out? In fact, maybe that's a nice segue into
24:11
Speaker 1: a question that I wanted to ask you, And again
24:13
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a tough one. I mean, you've
24:15
Speaker 1: dealt with IVF, but you've been very explicit about describing
24:19
Speaker 1: what happened when you went through postnatal depression. I remember
24:22
Speaker 1: I read somewhere that you said asking for help is
24:26
Speaker 1: one of the bravest and best things you can ever do.
24:27
Speaker 1: You talked about how it saved you, first of all,
24:30
Speaker 1: going through postnatal depression. Maybe you can talk to that
24:33
Speaker 1: just briefly and what you learned from that, but also
24:35
Speaker 1: how Peter was able to be a support for you,
24:38
Speaker 1: and how you got that spark back into a relationship
24:41
Speaker 1: that was probably well. The embers were probably a little
24:45
Speaker 1: low for sure, with the.
24:48
Speaker 2: Post natal depression. It really was a time for me
24:54
Speaker 2: that I felt so ashamed that I had postnatal depression.
25:00
Speaker 2: I was I finally had this beautiful, healthy baby that
25:04
Speaker 2: I had longed to have, having gone through IVF, having
25:09
Speaker 2: said I would never be one of those women who
25:11
Speaker 2: would complain. Here I was at a time that was
25:15
Speaker 2: meant to be the happiest time of my life, that
25:18
Speaker 2: everyone around me was saying, isn't this the happiest time
25:21
Speaker 2: of your life? And it wasn't. It was the worst
25:25
Speaker 2: time of my life. I had never felt such despair
25:30
Speaker 2: and such darkness, And that is why I felt so ashamed,
25:34
Speaker 2: because I thought, what right do I have to feel
25:38
Speaker 2: this way? Someone has everything, beautiful baby, I have this
25:46
Speaker 2: beautiful husband. I have this amazing extended family around me.
25:51
Speaker 2: Anyone looking at us from the outside would have gone, oh,
25:54
Speaker 2: what a lucky woman. I felt, yes, so ashamed, and
26:00
Speaker 2: and what struck me even more so during this time
26:04
Speaker 2: was I was someone who I'd grown up with a
26:08
Speaker 2: mum who has a mental illness, so I thought I
26:11
Speaker 2: understood mental illness. Mum and I had been very public
26:14
Speaker 2: about her mental illness and had done advocacy work for
26:17
Speaker 2: Beyond Blue. My mum has bipolar, so my message up
26:22
Speaker 2: until that point publicly had been there should be no
26:25
Speaker 2: shame in mental illness. We need to talk about it
26:28
Speaker 2: like any other physical illness.
26:30
Speaker 1: And were feeling ashamed here.
26:32
Speaker 2: I was feeling so ashamed and feeling such stigma, and
26:39
Speaker 2: it made it so difficult for me to ask for help.
26:42
Speaker 2: I was able to pretend to everyone around me how
26:45
Speaker 2: happy I was. That was the worst thing I could
26:48
Speaker 2: have done. Because, of course, just because you hide something
26:52
Speaker 2: or think you will wish it away, depression is not
26:57
Speaker 2: going to go away.
26:58
Speaker 1: When you were redressed. Sixs right, call you and what
27:01
Speaker 1: your resist persists. Emotions don't vanish by being vanished.
27:07
Speaker 2: That's right, And they don't And in fact, they get worse,
27:11
Speaker 2: and I got to a point where I really felt
27:15
Speaker 2: like I was going crazy, like I was losing my mind.
27:18
Speaker 2: And I was someone who'd always been very in control.
27:23
Speaker 2: I was always someone who'd been the cheerleader of our family,
27:27
Speaker 2: always very chirpy and upbeat, and suddenly here I was thinking,
27:32
Speaker 2: what is happening to me?
27:34
Speaker 1: How did you get to the point where you could say,
27:36
Speaker 1: all right, I need to do something about this? And
27:39
Speaker 1: what did you do well for me?
27:43
Speaker 2: My rock bottom was when I just couldn't sleep, these
27:48
Speaker 2: endless nights of sleeplessness, these very scary, obsessive thoughts that
27:53
Speaker 2: were going through my mind. I thought, I cannot I
27:56
Speaker 2: cannot live with this any longer. You think, what am
27:59
Speaker 2: I going to do? I was heading that way, and
28:04
Speaker 2: I knew I had to talk to someone, and so
28:07
Speaker 2: I spoke to my mum because I knew she would understand.
28:12
Speaker 2: And so Mum was the first person I told. And
28:15
Speaker 2: Mum said to me, promise me you will talk to
28:20
Speaker 2: your doctor, and promise me you will talk to pe D.
28:24
Speaker 2: So I made my mom those two promises.
28:26
Speaker 1: So you still have to talk to Pete. He must
28:28
Speaker 1: have known, He must have known that you weren't right.
28:31
Speaker 2: No, he had no idea, no idea because I was
28:34
Speaker 2: so good at pretending. And also this was he was
28:37
Speaker 2: still working for sixty minutes, so he was traveling a lot,
28:40
Speaker 2: so it was easy to hide what I was feeling
28:43
Speaker 2: because he wasn't around. And then he'd come home and
28:46
Speaker 2: I'd put on the brave face and I made my
28:50
Speaker 2: mom those promises, so I knew. I knew I had
28:53
Speaker 2: to tell ped and it was the hardest conversation I
28:58
Speaker 2: think I've ever had in my life because I felt
29:01
Speaker 2: like I was letting him down, and I was letting
29:04
Speaker 2: our brand new family down, and I thought, I have
29:07
Speaker 2: to say something. I have to So I took a
29:11
Speaker 2: deep breath and I said, I'm not I'm not doing well.
29:16
Speaker 2: Said I'm really frightened. I'm really frightened that I have
29:20
Speaker 2: postnatal depression. And Pete, being the beautiful man that he is,
29:27
Speaker 2: he took me into his arms and he said to me,
29:30
Speaker 2: it's going to be okay. And that is what I
29:34
Speaker 2: needed to hear that night. I didn't need to hear
29:37
Speaker 2: as often well meaning people might say, Oh, don't be
29:41
Speaker 2: so ridiculous, why would you be depressed? Oh, we've got
29:43
Speaker 2: such a great life, so and so it's far worse off.
29:46
Speaker 2: What have you got to worry about? You'll be right,
29:49
Speaker 2: you know, pull your socks up. You're just imagining it.
29:51
Speaker 2: He didn't say any of that. He just reassured me,
29:55
Speaker 2: and that is what I needed to hear from him,
29:58
Speaker 2: those words, And it was extraordinary, justin because even just
30:03
Speaker 2: by verbalizing what had been going on inside me for
30:07
Speaker 2: so long, a little bit of weight started to come
30:11
Speaker 2: off my shoulders and that was so freeing. And I
30:16
Speaker 2: think for all of us, we are so fearful sometimes
30:20
Speaker 2: about putting voice to what's inside of us, but it's
30:24
Speaker 2: so important that we do because once we do, it
30:28
Speaker 2: loses some of its power and potency, and we need
30:32
Speaker 2: to share it. And that's why I still talk about
30:36
Speaker 2: my postnatal depression, even though it was so long ago
30:39
Speaker 2: and still so painful. It's so important that we do
30:43
Speaker 2: ask for help when we need it, because I would
30:46
Speaker 2: hate to think that there are other women suffering on
30:49
Speaker 2: their own, thinking that they have to deal with it themselves,
30:55
Speaker 2: or that they feel so ashamed, and why should they
30:58
Speaker 2: feel like that? Because I, by putting voice to my
31:02
Speaker 2: darkest fears, to asking for help to then going to
31:07
Speaker 2: see my doctor the very next day. After I told PED,
31:11
Speaker 2: he organized for me to see my doctor, who then
31:14
Speaker 2: organized for me to see a psychiatrist the very next
31:17
Speaker 2: day after that. Because I then was able to put
31:21
Speaker 2: voice to all of that, I remember saying to my
31:23
Speaker 2: psychiatrist during that first appointment and I sat down, and
31:27
Speaker 2: first thing she said to me was you can stop
31:29
Speaker 2: pretending now, and even more weight came off my shoulders.
31:33
Speaker 2: She was giving me permission to be open about what
31:36
Speaker 2: I was feeling. And then I told her everything, and
31:40
Speaker 2: I thought she'd say to me, right, you're off to hospital,
31:43
Speaker 2: we're taking your baby. But she said to me, but
31:46
Speaker 2: that's normal, And I said normal, I am a crazy, lady.
31:51
Speaker 2: What I've just said to you. She said, no, what
31:54
Speaker 2: you've told me is normal for someone who has postinatal depression.
32:00
Speaker 2: And again some more weight came off my shoulders, and
32:04
Speaker 2: she was validating what I was feeling and what I
32:08
Speaker 2: came to realize over time with both my psychiatrist, I
32:12
Speaker 2: was seeing her three times a week, then twice a week.
32:17
Speaker 2: I was taking medication. I was being gentler on myself,
32:21
Speaker 2: but I worked really hard, and what I came to
32:24
Speaker 2: realize was. I wasn't a failure, I wasn't a bad mum.
32:29
Speaker 2: What I was feeling didn't mean that I didn't love
32:31
Speaker 2: my beautiful baby. I simply had an illness, an illness
32:36
Speaker 2: that I needed help to get through. And that first
32:41
Speaker 2: step of help was asking for it. And that can
32:44
Speaker 2: be so difficult because you do feel like a failure.
32:48
Speaker 2: But that's why asking for help is the bravest thing
32:53
Speaker 2: that someone can do, because it takes enormous courage to
32:56
Speaker 2: do that. But when someone asked for help, it is
33:00
Speaker 2: so important that we listen, that we take that seriously
33:05
Speaker 2: and we make sure they get the help they need.
33:08
Speaker 2: Because thanks to me having that conversation with my mum
33:12
Speaker 2: first of all, and then with Pete and then with
33:15
Speaker 2: my doctor and psychiatrist, I was able to get back
33:19
Speaker 2: to being me. That I was able to focus on
33:23
Speaker 2: being a mum. I was able to focus on my
33:25
Speaker 2: beautiful baby rather than being lost to depression. We need
33:31
Speaker 2: to talk about it, we need to ask for help
33:34
Speaker 2: and get the support that you deserve and need, because
33:37
Speaker 2: the thing is, it is an illness. It needs to
33:41
Speaker 2: be treated properly and seriously, but you can get through it.
33:45
Speaker 1: So grateful that you shared that Jess. Now, just the
33:48
Speaker 1: tables turned after well several years after all of these
33:52
Speaker 1: challenges that you went through, and a couple of years ago,
33:55
Speaker 1: Pete had some health challenges himself. There were some indications
33:59
Speaker 1: that I read and I actually haven't talked to you
34:01
Speaker 1: about this, but there were some indications that there was
34:03
Speaker 1: concern that it was cancer. So what was it like
34:06
Speaker 1: for you to now have the opportunity to repay his
34:09
Speaker 1: endless ongoing patients and support. Did you find that was
34:13
Speaker 1: easy or hard? And especially since you're showing up in
34:15
Speaker 1: the media every day and you know you're faking it again.
34:18
Speaker 1: You've got to be smiles and interviewing and doing the
34:20
Speaker 1: whole TV thing. What was that like to go through
34:24
Speaker 1: that with the table's turn? And how is Peter now?
34:27
Speaker 1: I presume he's doing fine.
34:29
Speaker 2: PD is wonderful. His health is fantastic. He did have
34:35
Speaker 2: some tests that early indications were that it might have
34:39
Speaker 2: been a certain type of cancer, but we were so
34:43
Speaker 2: lucky we only had to wait twenty four hours to
34:47
Speaker 2: get the next lot of results, which thankfully revealed no,
34:52
Speaker 2: it wasn't cancer. And that twenty four hours, though, was
34:56
Speaker 2: of course like walking through quicksand your mind goes to
35:02
Speaker 2: all sorts of places. So I marveled at his strength
35:07
Speaker 2: during that time. And I think what's important to recognize, though,
35:11
Speaker 2: is that for us it was a very short period
35:14
Speaker 2: of time that was that high stress, which I know
35:18
Speaker 2: for many other families, First of all, they don't get
35:21
Speaker 2: that good news, but also it's a much longer waiting
35:24
Speaker 2: period for test results.
35:27
Speaker 1: We've talked about everything except parenting so far, so I've
35:31
Speaker 1: got a well, I want to ask you two quick
35:33
Speaker 1: questions about parenting, and then I've got my five rapid
35:36
Speaker 1: fire questions that I wrap up every podcast with. You
35:38
Speaker 1: chose to leave the media, or at least your daily
35:41
Speaker 1: obligations to a television show a little bit over a
35:45
Speaker 1: year ago now or thereabouts. Not everyone can do that.
35:48
Speaker 1: Not everyone can walk away from their daily work because
35:51
Speaker 1: of their personal circumstances. But why did you do it?
35:54
Speaker 1: And what does it meant for you?
35:57
Speaker 2: It's such a good question, and I know how blessed
36:01
Speaker 2: I am that I had a choice that I could
36:03
Speaker 2: walk away, and that was what made me realize that
36:07
Speaker 2: I needed to that I had a choice that I
36:12
Speaker 2: found myself in a situation where yes, I loved my
36:17
Speaker 2: job on Studio ten. It's the best job I've ever
36:19
Speaker 2: had in television. But what I was finding was I
36:23
Speaker 2: was getting more and more tired. I was becoming more resentful.
36:29
Speaker 2: I wasn't liking the sort of person that I was becoming.
36:32
Speaker 2: I was becoming more and more impatient with our daughters
36:37
Speaker 2: and just thinking, why am I going through the motions
36:41
Speaker 2: of this when it isn't bringing me the same level
36:45
Speaker 2: of joy that it used to. Also, we were coming
36:49
Speaker 2: to a point, especially with my eldest daughter, where she's
36:54
Speaker 2: now a teenager, but she was almost a teenager and
36:57
Speaker 2: I was seeing that she needed me to be more present,
37:02
Speaker 2: and I thought, I have to make this decision. First
37:07
Speaker 2: of all, because I'm able to make this decision, but
37:10
Speaker 2: I knew I needed to be a better parent, and
37:15
Speaker 2: for me to be a better parent, it was about
37:17
Speaker 2: being more present. It's the best decision I've ever made.
37:21
Speaker 2: And I'm a proud feminist. I support all the different
37:25
Speaker 2: choices that women make in our lives, and for me
37:30
Speaker 2: making that choice to lean in for my family, to
37:33
Speaker 2: be present for my family is the best thing I've
37:35
Speaker 2: ever done. I'm happier, and because I'm happier. I know
37:40
Speaker 2: my kids and my family are happier.
37:42
Speaker 1: I love what you said at the beginning, when you
37:44
Speaker 1: realize that you're in that privileged position. I came across
37:48
Speaker 1: a quote just either we Can, by Latsu who said
37:51
Speaker 1: one who knows enough is enough will always have enough.
37:56
Speaker 2: Isn't that beautiful?
37:57
Speaker 1: And then I was thinking about the gift that you've
37:59
Speaker 1: given your children in doing this, and I thought, one
38:01
Speaker 1: thing that I'm always saying is, just like dollars, the
38:04
Speaker 1: currency of our economy, connection is the currency of our relationships.
38:08
Speaker 1: And it feels like listening to you, your relationships very
38:11
Speaker 1: much in the black now not in the red at all.
38:14
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying. I mean, I think the thing is
38:17
Speaker 2: justin That's why I love reading all of your columns
38:19
Speaker 2: and books and things. We're never there yet, and as
38:23
Speaker 2: it is a constant sort of struggle, it's important that
38:28
Speaker 2: we do or we can to get it as right
38:32
Speaker 2: for us and for our family as we can. And
38:35
Speaker 2: I think every family is different, of course, and the
38:38
Speaker 2: choices that we make are different, and we have to
38:42
Speaker 2: tap into what is right for us.
38:44
Speaker 1: Jess, you're raising children, even though what you are, you're
38:48
Speaker 1: raising children in the limelight birthday parties. Everyone's excited to
38:51
Speaker 1: come to the celebrities house. Do you kids get an
38:53
Speaker 1: easier or more difficult ride?
38:55
Speaker 2: Because can I just say that is so not the case?
38:59
Speaker 1: Is that right? So there's this perception, you know, you
39:02
Speaker 1: show up at the birthday party and everyone's like, oh,
39:04
Speaker 1: it's Jessica, Rowe or Peter.
39:07
Speaker 2: People know. I mean, we're us first and foremost, and
39:12
Speaker 2: we've never and we'll never make a big deal of
39:15
Speaker 2: what we do.
39:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, are pretty grounded, I'll give you that. I mean, yep,
39:19
Speaker 1: pretty grounded.
39:20
Speaker 2: And where yes, we do a job. It's just people
39:24
Speaker 2: see what we do, and if anything, I think, I mean,
39:29
Speaker 2: I embarrass my kids, especially my eldest daughter. I have
39:32
Speaker 2: to walk four steps behind her or four steps in
39:34
Speaker 2: front of them because she does want me to walk
39:36
Speaker 2: with them.
39:36
Speaker 1: Even happens to you, that's so good?
39:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course it doesn't. And I say, but a
39:41
Speaker 2: leg it's isn't it a bit obvious? I'm your mum.
39:43
Speaker 2: She's like, no, just stay behind me, just don't talk
39:46
Speaker 2: to me, don't look at me. So it's that's where
39:49
Speaker 2: we're at. And really, our daughters couldn't care less in
39:54
Speaker 2: the sense of we're just their mom and dad, and
39:57
Speaker 2: at times we're terribly embarrassing to them.
40:00
Speaker 1: Just like every good parent should be. Yeah, wonderful. Yeah, Well,
40:04
Speaker 1: to wrap up this podcast, yes, I always ask five
40:07
Speaker 1: rapid fire questions. Okay, so you've got about ten seconds
40:10
Speaker 1: to answer each one, or maybe fifteen or twenty, because
40:13
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've got a good story or two for me.
40:15
Speaker 1: But everyone gets the same questions, and like I said,
40:17
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be relatively quick. So the first question
40:20
Speaker 1: is if we asked your kids their favorite thing to
40:22
Speaker 1: do with you, what would they say.
40:25
Speaker 2: Well, Giselle would say I actually asked her this last night.
40:28
Speaker 2: She said, trying new things. And also she likes to
40:32
Speaker 2: jump out of cupboards and give me a fright. Because
40:34
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how many times she does it, I
40:36
Speaker 2: always scream.
40:37
Speaker 1: We've banned that in my house. I've got a daughter
40:39
Speaker 1: who loves to do that. I'm like, you just you're
40:41
Speaker 1: not allowed. It's horrible.
40:44
Speaker 2: Be used to it and no, but no, she gets me.
40:46
Speaker 2: Every time I asked a leg with this and she
40:49
Speaker 2: just wrinkled her nose at me, like, what what do
40:51
Speaker 2: you mean? So you know she yeah, she would say
40:57
Speaker 2: probably nothing, But she does like to drive with me
41:00
Speaker 2: in the car and we sh'll choose her music and
41:03
Speaker 2: we'll pump it up really loudly and we'll drive around.
41:07
Speaker 2: So that's something that we have a laugh and enjoy
41:09
Speaker 2: doing together.
41:10
Speaker 1: I can imagine you're doing that. What's been your trickiest
41:12
Speaker 1: parenting moment?
41:14
Speaker 2: Oh, every day? I think You're never there yet. I
41:18
Speaker 2: think that's the point that there are all sorts of
41:21
Speaker 2: tricky things. And I though, do enjoy my daughters the
41:27
Speaker 2: older they get, and I'm reveling in the people that
41:32
Speaker 2: they're becoming, and I love spending time with them and
41:36
Speaker 2: chatting to them. So I do enjoy it more and
41:40
Speaker 2: more the older they get.
41:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a nice lead into my third question.
41:44
Speaker 1: If you could spend an hour with your children at
41:46
Speaker 1: any age at all, let's say tomorrow afternoon, three o'clock,
41:50
Speaker 1: they're walking into your living room and they are that
41:52
Speaker 1: magical age, which age would you pick? And why?
41:55
Speaker 2: Oh, you know what? Absolutely where they are now? Because
42:00
Speaker 2: I think I don't like to look back, and I
42:03
Speaker 2: also don't like to go too far into the future,
42:06
Speaker 2: because I think that can be a tricky path to tread.
42:11
Speaker 1: That more and more.
42:12
Speaker 2: We need to be in the present, and we need
42:14
Speaker 2: to ground ourselves with what's happening now and be grateful
42:17
Speaker 2: for where we're at in our lives now. So I
42:20
Speaker 2: love exactly where they are now.
42:22
Speaker 1: Awesome. No matter how good life has been, jess And
42:25
Speaker 1: no matter how glad you are to be in the moment, though,
42:28
Speaker 1: there must be something that you're looking forward to most
42:30
Speaker 1: as a mum. So that's question for what are you
42:32
Speaker 1: actually looking most forward to?
42:35
Speaker 2: To lie in bed with no one actually calling out
42:39
Speaker 2: to me and going to the toilet in peace, without
42:45
Speaker 2: anyone coming in, just no one wants me for I
42:50
Speaker 2: could day imagine that a day of just peace, that
42:54
Speaker 2: that would be heaven.
42:55
Speaker 1: All right, last question, if you could go back to
42:57
Speaker 1: Jessica Row as a young mum having one of those
43:00
Speaker 1: tough moments with no experience that this parenting thing at all,
43:04
Speaker 1: what advice would you give yourself?
43:05
Speaker 2: I would say, you are enough. You are a good mum.
43:11
Speaker 2: You've got this. You are going to get more sleep
43:15
Speaker 2: one day.
43:16
Speaker 1: Yes, one day, and you are good enough, you know, Jess.
43:22
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for that piece of advice. I've never
43:26
Speaker 1: done this before, but I want to share something with
43:27
Speaker 1: you out of one of my books, when I wrote
43:32
Speaker 1: the book Ten Things Every Parent Needs to Know. I'm
43:35
Speaker 1: just going to read three paragraphs because it underscores or
43:38
Speaker 1: re emphasizes what you've just said. And I hope that,
43:42
Speaker 1: I hope that you don't mind being my one person
43:44
Speaker 1: audience as I read these three paragraphs. Well, I'll just
43:47
Speaker 1: read it.
43:47
Speaker 2: Is that okay, oh yes, you'll probably make me cry.
43:51
Speaker 1: I hope. So here we go. In the novel ninety three,
43:55
Speaker 1: French writer Victor Hugo wrote, she broke the bread into
43:59
Speaker 1: two fragments and gave them to her children, who ate
44:02
Speaker 1: with eagerness. She hath kept none for herself, grumbled the sergeant.
44:07
Speaker 1: Because she's not hungry, said a soldier. No, said the sergeant,
44:11
Speaker 1: because she is a mother. It is almost impossible to
44:15
Speaker 1: put into words the depth of love that we feel
44:17
Speaker 1: as parents towards our children. As Cordelia explains in Shakespeare's
44:22
Speaker 1: King Lear when speaking of her love for her parent,
44:25
Speaker 1: my love is richer than my tongue. I cannot heave
44:28
Speaker 1: my heart into my mouth. If you feel that way
44:30
Speaker 1: toward your children, then you are enough. The endless laundry,
44:35
Speaker 1: the thankless tasks related to maintaining your home. The challenges
44:38
Speaker 1: children provide each compounds to make us feel like it
44:40
Speaker 1: might all be too much, and Instagram makes it look
44:42
Speaker 1: like everyone else is doing it so well. They get
44:44
Speaker 1: their pre baby body back in five weeks, their meals
44:46
Speaker 1: all look like they've come from a hatted restaurant kitchen,
44:48
Speaker 1: and they seem to have so much more time to
44:49
Speaker 1: spend doing meaningful activities with their children. The surest way
44:53
Speaker 1: to feel poorly about your parenting is to compare yourself
44:56
Speaker 1: with others, especially when you mostly only get to see
44:58
Speaker 1: their highlights real But parenting is as much about the
45:01
Speaker 1: good times on Instagram as it is about those moments
45:03
Speaker 1: you would never want anyone to see. It's about how
45:05
Speaker 1: we respond to the running noses, the fussy eating, the
45:08
Speaker 1: wet beds, the soiled underwear, all the puddle on the
45:10
Speaker 1: carpet that provides evidence that the toilet training still has
45:12
Speaker 1: a way to go. It's about how we respond to
45:15
Speaker 1: the complaints that my legs are sore and I can't
45:16
Speaker 1: walk on tired mornings, the lost school jumpers, and the
45:20
Speaker 1: never ending sibling challenges that confront every parent of more
45:23
Speaker 1: than one child. Our response is to those micro moments
45:26
Speaker 1: that occur endlessly, day in and day out, set the
45:28
Speaker 1: foundation for our children's lives as we respond with patience, kindness, understanding, compassion,
45:36
Speaker 1: and a desire to help rather than hurt. We're doing enough.
45:40
Speaker 1: We're doing all that's required. We're growing, we're loving, and
45:44
Speaker 1: we are enough as a parent. We're doing work that
45:48
Speaker 1: will never be seen by anyone beyond our family. But
45:51
Speaker 1: the value of that foundation we lay will last for generations.
45:57
Speaker 2: Justin see, you've made me cry. So beautiful, but it's
46:01
Speaker 2: so You're so right. And that's why the books, the articles,
46:06
Speaker 2: what you do is so important because we need we
46:10
Speaker 2: need that reassurance, we need that information, we need that
46:14
Speaker 2: connection and community, I think, to know that, yes, we
46:18
Speaker 2: are all enough, we are good enough, we're doing our
46:22
Speaker 2: very best. I think beautiful.
46:24
Speaker 1: What's interesting about that is pretty much everything that I've
46:26
Speaker 1: written in the book you talked about in this conversation,
46:30
Speaker 1: and it's been it's been a wonderful conversation, Chess. It's
46:32
Speaker 1: been delightful, it's been affirming, it's been thought provoking, and
46:36
Speaker 1: I'm sure for many people who are listening to this,
46:39
Speaker 1: it's been life giving. So thank you so very much
46:42
Speaker 1: for your generosity.
46:44
Speaker 2: Oh, justin thank you. You know how much I love
46:47
Speaker 2: you and how much I love talking to you, and
46:49
Speaker 2: I just get you're amazing, So thank you for having me.
46:52
Speaker 2: It's been a very very special conversation.
46:56
Speaker 1: Well, what a wonderful what an honest, vulnerable and maybe
46:59
Speaker 1: even conversation with Jessica Rowe. I hope you've gained some
47:03
Speaker 1: insight into the life of Jess as a result of
47:05
Speaker 1: this Parenting in Perspective podcast. If you'd like some further reading,
47:09
Speaker 1: it's well worth checking out Jess's book The Best of
47:11
Speaker 1: Times The Worst of Times, which documents Jess and her
47:14
Speaker 1: mother's journey with bipolar disorder. There's also Love Wisdom, Motherhood,
47:19
Speaker 1: her memoir is Is This My Beautiful Life? And her
47:22
Speaker 1: latest Diary of a Crap Housewife. Now, one more important thing.
47:26
Speaker 1: If there's anything that's been discussed on this podcast that
47:29
Speaker 1: raises issues for you, please reach out to an organization
47:32
Speaker 1: like Lifeline, Headspace Australia Beyond Blue, who Jessica is an
47:36
Speaker 1: ambassador for as well. And thanks again for being part
47:38
Speaker 1: of the Parenting in Perspective podcast on the Doctor Justin
47:42
Speaker 1: Colson's Happy Families Podcast feed. My name's doctor Justin Colson.
47:47
Speaker 1: It's been great to have you with me. Just before
47:49
Speaker 1: I run, I want to tell you about a couple
47:50
Speaker 1: of quick things. So so very grateful for the reviews
47:54
Speaker 1: that come through via the Apple Podcasts app. If you
47:58
Speaker 1: have enjoyed the podcast, you go there and give me
48:00
Speaker 1: a five star review. Don't worry if you didn't enjoy it,
48:03
Speaker 1: I don't need to know. Don't dive in there and
48:05
Speaker 1: give me one of those one star reviews. They're no good.
48:07
Speaker 1: But Schmuff left to review just recently, who said your
48:11
Speaker 1: Happy Famili's podcast is my lifeline. Your three e's and
48:16
Speaker 1: five h's such great insight on how to manage anxiety
48:18
Speaker 1: and manage life with kids. The podcast is an easy,
48:21
Speaker 1: doable listen with a short snippet of advice. I love
48:24
Speaker 1: listening to it when I go for walks and clean
48:25
Speaker 1: the house. It's my little taste of therapy at home.
48:28
Speaker 1: I've spread the words to friends. Thank you, welt Schmuff.
48:31
Speaker 1: Thank you for your five star review. It's just wonderful
48:34
Speaker 1: to hear from you and to know that you enjoyed it.
48:37
Speaker 1: And by the way, please do tell your friends about
48:39
Speaker 1: the podcast. This is how we get the word out
48:41
Speaker 1: and how we get to help loads of people to
48:43
Speaker 1: make their families happier. The next Parenting in Perspective podcast
48:47
Speaker 1: is just a week away. Please join me doctor Justin
48:50
Speaker 1: Colson as I talk with Dr Justin Patchet, who has
48:53
Speaker 1: a PhD in criminal justice. We're going to be discussing
48:56
Speaker 1: cyberbullying and working with youth and technology.
49:00
Speaker 4: Right down and there that there was a story that
49:02
Speaker 4: these kids wanted to tell. They didn't feel comfortable telling
49:05
Speaker 4: their parents about it because they didn't know anything about technology,
49:07
Speaker 4: so they were just kind of holding on to this
49:09
Speaker 4: and so we've been studying it ever since.
49:11
Speaker 1: That's Justin Patchen, my next guest on the Parenting in
49:14
Speaker 1: Perspective podcast, a Happy Families podcast. For more information, visit
49:19
Speaker 1: Happyfamilies dot com dot a you