Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 246 ~ Come Pick Me Up

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Ep. 246 ~ Come Pick Me Up · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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If you remember, like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, they actually devoted their
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show, what was it called the lines of Fletcher of Fletcher Party Show.
0:17
Yeah, what an embarrassment. I mean, everything is going to hail down
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here in Deacton. Don't go bad, don't don't don't all right? Oh
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yeah, what's up to everybody? It's me? It's me. It's the
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Triple B Big Bad Vibe, otherwise known as Rob Clark. Here with you
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when that's fine and beautiful hot summer day, which also leads to hot summer
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nights, especially when you slather your meat and silk city hot sauce. Baby,
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what's up? Welcome to the show. Got a a weird one for
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you today. Uh. That's really about the only inscription I can give you.
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It involves a serial killer, uh, some kidnappings, some dismemberments,
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some necrophilia, and it all has to do with the Kennedy assassination tangentially possibly.
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So yeah, and we're also going to take a look at a mister
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Raymond coming story as well, and a couple other tidbits for good measure.
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But before we do, as per the usual, let's hear from the Fine
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Delicious sponsor of this show. That's right, it is Silk City Hot Sauces.
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Baby Bake Bad Vibe here with you for Silk City Hot Sauces. Why
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Silk City Because this hot sauce comes to you directly from Patterson, New Jersey,
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bought fresh peppers. It's all about the pepper people telling you your boy,
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Big Bad Bob loves his food like he loves his women. Nothing spicy but
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not so hot you can't eat them. So if you love yourself some sauce
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the tip of a jar, you will transform your life forever whatever to Silk
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the code Gunman That's new U N M A N for twenty percent off of
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your entire order. You won't regret it, thank me later, peace.
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So yeah, that's it. I mean, you can support the show for
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free. All you gotta do is listen. All you gotta do is write
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a review. All you gotta do is share it, interact on social media
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and yeah, all that's grazily appreciate it. If you're not following along on
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YouTube, make sure you go subscribe to the loan Gumming YouTube channel the Loan
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Gumming podcast. Just search for that and I'll pop a right up. You're
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missing, uh a giant trolling session in every comments on every video. I
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love you toobe. It's the best. It's the best. So yeah,
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coming up, big announcements, big announcements, big announcements. Let's get these
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out of the way real quick. Your boy league Bad Bob and my buddy
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Joe Borelli are going to be presenting at Lancer this year. That's right.
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Never thought it would happen, but it's happening. It's happening, and we
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couldn't be more thrilled about it. And I didn't want to do it unless
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I could bring you something massively awesome, huge new revelatory. Who wants to
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sit there and listen to the same old, boring, recycled crap. Not
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me, that's for sure. And I know a little about a lot and
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a lot about a little. And but this presentation this year at Lancer,
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I'm telling you you were going to want to either get your butt to Dallas
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so you can see it in person, or you are going to want to
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order it, order the stream, order the stream or the download. I'm
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telling you you're going to want to catch it because you know your boy doesn't
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mess around. I don't waste time, and I wouldn't waste your time.
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So head over to let's see what was it Lancer Publications dot com. I
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apologize, that's JFK Lancer Publication dot com right now, and secure your tickets,
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eric or admittance to the JFK Lancer conference this year. It's going to
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be a banger, folks, a banger, all right. So I told
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you this one was going to be weird, right. So, A lot
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of people really really dig true crime podcasts and stories about true crime, and
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this will fit right in nicely. So just a little background before we get
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to the meet on the Bone, if you will, at around five thirty
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pm on Sunday, March the thirteenth, nineteen and seventy seven, John LeMay,
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at seventeen old boy, told his next door neighbor that he was going
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to go to Redondo Beach to see a guy he'd met at a gym in
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downtown, LA whose name was Dave Now. When John didn't come home that
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night or the next day, his hysterical mother called the El Segundo Police,
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certain that something had happened to him, claiming that her son didn't just go
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off the days. At a time, police chalked it up as just another
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team runaway, but on March eighteenth, five days later, the remains of
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John LeMay, who was a homosexual team, were discovered beside a highway south
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of Corona, California. He had been carefully dismembered, all the body parts,
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watched and dreamed of blood, and neatly packed into five industrial trash bags.
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Each bag was carefully sealed with nylon filament tape, and three of the
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bags had been crammed into an empty eighty gallon oil drum, the other two
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left on the ground next to it. The boy's head was missing, but
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a birthmark clearly identified the remains as belonging to John Lamay. The seventies was
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a confusing time for young people, particularly young gay peopil. The AIDS epidemic
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hadn't been named as a serious threat yet in the popularity of gay bathhouses,
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gay bars, and anonymous sex and parks, public toilets and parties, was
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that its frenzied zenith. Gays were coming out with a vengeance and they were
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finally taking what they considered their rightful freedoms. In the wave of the Three
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Free Love Sixties in San Francisco Hate Ashbury, young people headed to California in
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droves. Gay teens were drawn there as if the Mecca misunderstood use, ran
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away from sympathetic parents, stuck out their thumbs and headed to the promised land.
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They didn't necessarily find what they were looking for. Many of them ended
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up his boy prostitutes, trying to eke out a meager living. According to
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Dennis McDougall and his book Angel of Darkness Turning the seventies and early eighties,
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more than a hundred young hitchhikers fought rides on the streets and freeways of southern
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California and did not live to tell about it. They were young, pretty,
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and eventually desperate. According to Berkeley psychologist Michael Levins, homosexuals are an
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easy population to get access to in some anonymous way. Chicago police sergeant Richard
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Sandberg put it another way, the gays are easy prey. Hitchhiking has never
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been a safe motors transportation, but in the nineteen seventies, getting into a
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car with a stranger it was a horrifyingly common occurrence. Creditor cruise the highway
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and beach highways. They frequented bars, hoping to find young boys in an
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agreeable state of indebreation. Sometimes they were looking for money, sometimes for quick
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impersonal sex. Sometimes they wanted to vent their frustrations and rage on someone,
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anyone unsuspected. While homosexuals constitute only about five percent of serial killers, they
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are more prone to overkill than their straight counterparts, indulging in the more horrific
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extremes of torture, mutilation, and dismemberment. According to Harold check The in
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The Serial Killer Files, gay men are also among the most prolific of serial
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killers. The shearer promiscuity of their crimes as a kind of grotesque mirror of
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the free ranging sexual lifestyle embraced by so many gay men and the pre AIDS
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era of the nineteen seventies, and a point I should probably point out that
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I did not write this. Okay, this is from Elizabeth Ainstrom of the
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Crime Library. Why homosexual killers as a group should be especially sadistic is an
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interesting question thought. One element is surely they're prevailing homophobia of American society,
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which causes many yea men to grow up with a deep seated sense of self
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hatred a violent homophobia of their own. When these feelings are combined with the
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psychopathyology psychopathology of a serial killer, the results can be particularly appalling. The
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FBI estimates that between ten and fifty serial killers are still at large in America
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at any time. Patrick Wayne Kearney Folks was born in Texas in nineteen forty,
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the youngest of three boys. He was thin, shy, sickly,
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and an easy target for schoolyard bullies. By the time he was eight years
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old, he knew he was going to kill people. By the time he
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was a much ridiculed teen, he was actively fantasizing about murder. His fantasies
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were very detailed, and then he tried it. It started in the mid
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sixties in Tijuana and San Diego, he picked up gays in bars, bus
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stops, places were gay men congregated looking for a quickie in the bushes.
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They were easy to find, easy to kill, and the bodies easy to
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dispose of in the desert. But in his public life here in the pure
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normal, he put his time in with the army as well as into a
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short marriage of those situations suited him. In nineteen sixty two, Kearney met
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David Hill. Hill was married in an army veteran. A six foot two
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high school dropout from Lubbock, Texas, Hill join the army in nineteen sixty
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but was quickly discharged when diagnosis of an unspecified personality disorder. Back in Lubbock,
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he married his high school sweetheart, but like Kearney's trial marriage, Hill's
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was short lived. When he met Kearney, Hill divorced his wife and moved
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to California in nineteen sixty seven. Patrick got a good job as an aeronautics
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engineer with Hused Aircraft, and David stayed home and kept house. But though
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it was loved at first sight when they met, their ten year life together
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was tumultuous and stormy. Frequently, Hill would stomp out of the house and
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go spend a few nights with some friends, or he'd pick up a one
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night stand out of frustration and revenge. Occasionally he went all the way home
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to Lubbock, but he always came back. When Hill was gone, Kearny's
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impotent frustrations reached a boiling point. There was only one thing he knew that
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would satisfy those feelings of repressed rage. When Hill left the house after a
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fight, Kearny would go rowling. He'd jumped in his volkswagon and go out
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to pick up hitchhikers or young men from gay bars. Being of slight build
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he had a sure fire system of doing his victims. He would shoot them
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in the head with a twenty two caliber pistol without warning. Sometimes he'd be
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driving down the highway, paying strict attention to the speed limit with his left
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hand on his steering wheel, then shoot his victim in the passenger seat with
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his right. Then he'd drive around until he found a suitably private place for
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him to believe his frustrations, vent his rage, and wield his power.
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As soon as he was alone with their courses, he would undress them and
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sex with him. Then he would employ the hack saul and put them into
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pieces. If he was at home, he did this in the bathroom,
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fastidiously washing each body part and draining it of blood to keep it from smelling.
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He left no fingerprints in the dried blood. He learned all this from
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carefully reading the notorious crimes of deep orl who murdered seventeen young boys in Houston,
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them up in trash bags and buried them here. And he studied heinous
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crimes and collected newspaper clippings as news of his torture and murders breed. Came
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to a violent conclusion when one of his vicious accomplices killed Coral with his own
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gun. Most of Kearney's victims reminded him of the type of person who had
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given him a bad time during his teen years, Blonde and arrogant. Sometimes,
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after he killed them and I had sex with their courses, he would
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also beat them. Patrick Kearney wasn't the only one killing young people in southern
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California during this time. The Hillside stranglers Angelo Buono Buono and his equally psychopathic
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cousin Kenneth Bianchi, applying the trade in the same area at the same time,
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abducting young girls, torturing them, strangling them, and dumping their bodies
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were ever convenient. The famed and still unidentified Zodiac Killer was on the loose,
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taunting police and ringing terror with his random murders. The Zebra Killers were
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randomly hacking people to death with machetes in San Francisco and closer to home,
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excuse me, Randy Kraft was proving to be one of the all time most
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demitted killers of gays with his comprehensible statistic torture methods. William Bonin with his
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sidekick Vernon Butts. Boning Butts, was also committing horribly grizzly murders on young
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gay men and discarding their remains alongside the freeways. No wonder The police were
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confused. They didn't know how many serial killers they had, and they didn't
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know how many of them were copycats. But as the body count rose,
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they noticed some market differences in the modus operandi. One murderer, later to
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be identified as Randy Kraft, routinely picked up hitchhikers, gaze marines, or
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whoever caught his fancy. He would drug them torture them for hours and ended
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up by castrating them and shoving shoving whatever was handy broom handle, a tree
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branch, a pole, the victim's own genital or underwear to their rectums.
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Damn. He usually did this while the victim was still alive and screaming,
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Well, Randy Kraft, it sounds like a monster. William Boonen strangled his
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victims with rope cord or the victim's own T shirt before raping the corpses and
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throwing the bodies to the side of the road. But one killer stood out
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from the others by carefully dismembering his victims, cleaning them up, and idly,
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tightily, tightily bagging them. The press called these the trash bag murders.
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The homicide cup cops called them the tag and a bag murderer's. Wait
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a minute, hold on. The homicide cops called them the bag and a
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bag murderers. That's just that's just wrong. Wow hmmm, I apologize,
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folks, This is okay. Let's see here. The most percipi, the
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most prolific serial killers also tend to be the most organized. They methodically stalked
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their victims for the best opportunity to strike so it's not to be seen,
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and they smartly dumped the bodies far away so as to not leave any clues.
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Although anyone can be targeted, says James Allen Fox and Jack Levin,
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and the will to kill. Victims of serial killers tend to be the most
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vulnerable in society, children, restitutes, in the and the elderly. But
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the most striking intriguing aspect of serial murders murderers is the nature of their motivation
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to satisfy an intense appetite for power and sadism. The serial murderer tends to
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kill not for love, not for money, not for revenge, but just
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for the fun of it because it makes him feel good. Yeah because John
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LeMay. Remember back to the seventeen year old boy at the beginning of this
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story told his neighbor that he was going to visit someone named Dave and Redondo
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Beach. The police equitted it with a name that regularly appeared on the sign
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in sheets at the gay bathhouses, and soon we're knocking on the door of
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the modest Kearney Hill home in Redondo. Kearney and Hill welcomed them in and
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seemed to be relaxed, concerned about the missing boy, and totally innocent.
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While there, though, investigators helped themselves to a few carpet fibers because,
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for the first time in a trash bag murder, carpet fibers have been caught
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up in the nylon filament tape used to seal the bags, and the police
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had a match. As soon as the police left, Kearney destroyed all the
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files he kept on Dean Coral. The police came back and asked for samples
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of Kearney's and Hill's cubic hair, as well as hairs from their dog.
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The pair cooperated fully. All the fibers and hair matched evidence left on LeMay's
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body, but when the cops went back again, this time with the search,
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weren't. The couple had fled. Police found a hacksaw with a fresh,
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clean blade, but little bits of blood and tissue were caught up in
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the corners of it John Lemaye's blood and tissue. Actually, they found residual
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blood all over the bathroom, although invisible to the naked eye, and it's
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clearly there under forensics examination. They found familiar nylon filament tape and in search
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of Kearney's office that aircraft offered up a source of the exact same trash bags
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used in what was looking like upward of twenty murders people twenty let's see.
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The Hillside Strangler Investigation task Force was construed as a public relations vehicle. The
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LA Police Department, going through the usual high profile motions to reassure the public,
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set up a special task force which included the investigating officers from the Glendale
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Police Department in the Los Angeles Sheriff's Office, not that they had anything new
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to go on, but all the busy motion and news conferences looked good on
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television. According to Ian Brady in The Gates of Janice, the pressure was
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on Kearney and Hill too with their photographs post did on posters when the heat
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was clearly on Kearney and who had fled back to two Texas but knew that
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the life on the land was not for them. The cops knew who they
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were, what they looked like at the behest of relatives. The pair then
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returned to California and on July first, nineteen seventy seven, walked into Riverside
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County Sheriff's Office, pointed to a wanted poster and said we're them, We
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are them. They were booked on a suspicion of two murders and had been
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wanted for questioning and connection with six other slayings. They were arraigned on the
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two murder charges and bail was set at half a million dollars each. Kearney
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cooperated fully with the police. He said the murders excited him and gave him
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a feeling of dominance. The idea of hurting and killing someone sounded sexually exciting.
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When officers grilled him about pick up marines and feeding pills and booze to
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his victims, they got a blank look from him. They persisted, wanting
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to know if he had ever put anything but his penis and the victims rectums.
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Why, sir, that's quite a personal question. He used towels to
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keep the bodies from leaking all over his bathroom before he dismembered them. The
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police persisted, hoping to put to rest more of their freeway mysteries. How
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about torture, fella? Did he ram anything into the anus for the sheer
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pleasure of it? Recognition crossed Kearney's face and he shook his head. I
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am not the Wooden State killer. He knew exactly what the detectives were getting
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at, but impaling, strangling, and torturing victims was not his style.
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A bullet to the head was clean and support He seemed defended that he would
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be confused with that sixth son of a bitch, Randy Kraft. The trash
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Bag murders investigation began officially on April thirteenth, nineteen seventy five, when the
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body of Abbert but Rivera he was twenty one of La was found near Highway
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seventy four, just east of San Juan Copastrano and a heavy duty cashbag.
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But according to Kearney in a series of letters, confessions, and conversations with
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the police, the killings had begun much earlier, all the way back to
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the nineteen sixties in Tijuana and San Diego. He led into the site where
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he had buried one of his first victims, known only as George or Jorge
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if you will, behind his and Hills Culver City apartment. The victim was
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killed around Christman nineteenth Christmas nine sixty eight. The police dug where Kearney indicated
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and came up with the skeleton with a single bullet hole in its skull.
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After killing George, a paranoid Kearney laid low for over a year, but
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nobody came knocking on his door, and he realized that he had actually gotten
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away with murder. The neighbors said she occasionally heard what she thought were gunshots,
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but I had no idea they came from the Kearney in the Hill apartment.
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After his arrest, Kearney wrote letters to the police detailing the crimes,
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the names of the victims, in the places the bodies could be found,
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and eighteenth count of murder was filed the same day that the thirteenth Hillside strangler
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victim was found and asked for. John LeMay Well Hill wasn't home when his
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young lover came to the house, so Kearney invited him in to watch television.
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Without provocation. Kearney had shot LeMay in the back of the head and
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later dumped his remains in the desert. He liked using the desert. The
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desert, animals and insects were moved evidence quickly and efficiently. Things disappear very
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rapidly in the desert. He told investigators. You can put a small animal
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on an in hill and it disappears right in front of your eyes. According
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to Dennis McDougald, Kearney once said that he had had a flat tire during
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one of his drives to the desert to dispose of a body, and when
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he discovered the despair was flat too, he had to call a tow truck
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to get his car to his service station. Kearny stood by sweating bullets while
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the attendant fixed the flat, never questioning the bags in the back seat,
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which contained arms, legs, rib cage and some intestines. Another time,
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he locked his keys in the car while inspecting possible dump sites. Took him
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hours to jimmy open the lock with a coat hanger, nervously looking over his
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shoulder the whole time, with freshly filled trash bags again in the back seat.
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As soon as the bags were unloaded, though, he felt an enormous
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sense of relief on accomplishment and power. After hearing three hours of evidence,
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the Riverside County Grand Jury or refused to indict David Hill, public defender Malcolm
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McMillan spirited him out of the jail under a cloak of secrecy to protect him
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from the reporters and photographers. Hill then fled California and returned to Lubbock,
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Texas. Riverside DA Brian Morton said the evidence against mister Hill was very weak,
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adding that much of the information on earth by Riverside tended to exonerate Hill.
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McMillan said he was not surprised to hear the grand jury refused to indict
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Hill, adding that he did not think there was sufficient evidence to hold him
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to answer. In superior Court, Kearney said that Hill was neither involved nor
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aware of his murders. He said that he committed all the murders when Hill
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was away. Did Kearney take all the blame to free an innocent man or
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to absolve his lover? Is it likely that Hill was innocent? Against the
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advice of his attorney, Patrick Kearney changed his not guilty plea to a plea
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of guilty. His attorney advised him to plead not guilty by reason of insanity,
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but Kearney pleaded guilty to the original three charges of murder, and it
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asked to be sentenced immediately in an apparent moved to avoid California's death penalty.
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His actions were they were moot The death penalty law didn't go into effect until
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August of seventy seven, and all of Kearney's homicides pre dated that time,
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so the death was never an option for prosecutors. Superior Judge John Hughes handed
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down a life term with the possibility of parole in seven years. Judge Breckinridge
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said, this defendant has certainly perpetrated a series of ghastly and grizzly crimes,
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and I can only hope the community at lease Board will never release mister Kearney.
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He appears to be an insult to humanity for what seems to be approximately
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thirty two murders. Kearney was eventually charged with twenty one counts of murder and
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received twenty one life sentences if all of his confessions are truthful. He also
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murdered two children ages five and eight, along with four victims whose bodies were
31:47
never recovered. At least seven of his victims remain unidentified. Patrick Kearney is
31:53
today living out his life sentences in California. He writes essays and has had
31:57
a few of them published. David Hill played himself in an episode of History's
32:02
Mysteries his missed murders for the History Channel in two thousand and one. The
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trash bag murders are considered among the most heinous crimes of the twentieth century.
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Patrick Kearney's swath of death ranks him with the likes of Jerry Bruto's, Ted
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Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and John Wayne and Gaysy. According to Los Angeles
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homicide sergeant Al set if Mattnt got sloppy consciously or unconsciously, he'd probably still
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be doing it today. So there you have it, folks, on the
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crash bag killer Patrick W. Kearney. So now I'm sure you're like,
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okay, Rob, I'm sure you have a good reason for telling us all
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this, and I'm sure it has to do with the Kennedy assassion and Kennedy
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assassination in some former fashion, and I'm here to tell you that it does.
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It does in fact, because you'll remember that that's Gary Hill guy,
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his buddy's from Texas well. Patrick Kearney was also in Texas from like nineteen
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sixty two to sixty seven something like that. I mean he was moving back
33:27
and forth or traveling a lot. But so this would mean that Patrick Kearney
33:34
was in Texas in nineteen sixty two in nineteen sixty three, there is your
33:44
red flag people. So then I came across this very interesting news clip from
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Australia and it's from this woman who had been corresponding with serial killers. And
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one of the serial killers that she was writing back and forthwith was none other
34:15
than Patrick Kearney, the trash bag killer. And boy did he have a
34:21
story for her. So, now, without further ado, let's hear from
34:28
down under the thunder from down under here we go. Well, the CIA
34:36
and FBI might have convinced President Trump to block the release of some files relating
34:40
to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, but Trump says he'll release
34:45
more files, except those with the names and addresses of people who are still
34:49
alive. Now, true crime writer Amanda Howard has been following this release very
34:53
closely, and she has some surprising information that not even the president knows about
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a man. So welcome to the show I had. Now, before we
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get to your world exclusive information, can we briefly recap what's been revealed in
35:09
those official releases of information relating to the assassination of jfk Okay. So there's
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about two and a half thousand extra files that have come out the last couple
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of days. Wow. So that's a lot of reading. A lot of
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it actually has to do with Oswald going to Mexico. So for basically for
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two months before the assassination, he was being he was being held under surveillance.
35:29
So it's quite interesting that before he killed the president, they were watching
35:34
him. He was a person of interest, even the person of interest before
35:37
the assassination, which question, my question, my question conspiracy has tag all
35:43
of that. So did he do it? He was, he was arrested
35:45
for it, but did he is that what it's being well under. If
35:49
he was under surveillance, how did they not surveil him to the book depository
35:53
exactly? So we get into a lot of theories that are involved in these
35:59
new files, and there's also a lot of investigations into what was happening in
36:04
Cuba and that the CIA asked the mob if they would take out Castro and
36:09
all sorts of things like this. So in these new files, it's we're
36:12
not saying anything about the actual assassination on that day, but there's all this
36:16
background information that's coming out now about what was happening to Oswald and what they
36:21
knew about him before this actually happened. So you have new information. That's
36:28
a revealing letter. So who's the letter from this new information? Okay,
36:32
Well, I have a letter from a serial killer in the States, So
36:36
Patrick Kearney is here. I have many of them as part of my research.
36:42
And we've actually been discussing Oswald because he was friends with him prior to
36:46
the assassination. Obviously, because the next day Patrick Kearney, so he was
36:51
known as the trash bag killer, and he started picking up hitchhikers in sixty
36:54
five and murdering them. He killed at least twenty one people. But he
36:59
was friends with Oswald before the assassination, and he actually drove Oswald to the
37:05
Mexican border, and he actually spoke about going with him. So how do
37:10
we trust a serial killer vote, Well, that's that's what we have to
37:16
actually think about. You know, how much of this is true? But
37:19
he was there at the same time. What did he say about the ride
37:22
to Mexico? Well, I think we've got some Yeah, let's look at
37:25
some quotes, and we'll start out with this quote. We had both attended
37:29
military language school and had been in top secret military language operations. In fact,
37:35
I met Oswald through a friend who had also done these things. What
37:38
do you make of that? Well, I mean we know a lot.
37:43
When you watch shows like JFK by Oliver Stone, they actually talk about Oswald
37:47
being this this linguist and how how intelligent he was and everything. But if
37:52
we look at these files that have just been released, it actually says that
37:57
he tried to speak Russian to the Russian embassy while he was in Mexico and
38:01
they said he barely spoke a word of it. So all of this sort
38:06
of background that we're told that he's this amazing man and that he was highly
38:09
intelligent, it's sort of coming in. It's sing to fall to pieces,
38:14
right right. What about this next quote? Lee Harvey. Oswald said that
38:19
he was going to hitch hike to Mexico City, but after Mexico he returned
38:22
to the USA and then he made a second voyage to Mexico City later.
38:27
I nearly went with him. Why was he in Mexico, Well, he
38:30
wanted to get to Cuba and then to Russia, so he needed to cross
38:34
the border to actually speak to the embassy's to get his visas to actually get
38:38
there. So and they just found him to be a bit of a pain
38:42
and tried to tell him to go away. But you know, the CIA
38:45
and the Secret Service and the FBI were all standing there watching him do all
38:47
of this, and we're intercepting phone calls. And he wasn't the clandestine genius
38:52
that Bill being led to believe. No, he was ringing from a public
38:55
payphone out the front of the embassydn't let him in, and he kept ringing
39:02
them over and over again. And that's what all of these new files are
39:06
about, is that they were basically trying to tell him to go away and
39:07
they weren't interested. So he wasn't doing it very secretly. Okay, And
39:14
one more quote from the letter, just to give you a bit of a
39:15
glimpse inside the personality of Lee Harvey Oswald. Oswald sometimes affected a false German
39:22
accent and tried to pretend that he was some sort of spot just sound too
39:27
bright. How could he have been the mastermind behind the assassination of a president?
39:31
Well, I mean that's the exact point here. I mean, this
39:35
just proves that that case actually falls apart that you know, this lone gunman
39:38
who was able to take out the president from the school book depository. If
39:44
we're told that he could speak all of these languages, but even his fake
39:49
German accent wasn't very good. I mean, we could do the Germans and
39:52
all of that, but he wasn't. And that makes the whole case fall
39:57
apart, because if he isn't intelligent, if he isn't this amazing man,
40:00
then what happened exactly? I mean, and we have him in the papers
40:07
on the very next day, I mean within six hours Australia was was printing
40:10
the man's face all over the newspapers. Liba is all like, where's that
40:16
matter? Now? My letter from the serial killer is actually nicely kept away
40:22
because they're things like this. I don't know if the CIA is at my
40:25
house right now tossing the places. I mean they could be, they might
40:30
be nothing. Let us know if they are not going to camera down,
40:31
Yes that might be worth some money in years to come maybe, But yes,
40:37
it's more about the historical significance of it all. So what do you
40:40
think happened though? Do you think he did act alone? Or what do
40:45
you think is the true story? I mean, we don't have three hours.
40:52
Like President Trump, who actually is a conspiracy theorist himself. Absolutely there
40:58
is more to this, and these current files that have just been released actually
41:01
show that, you know that they have the CIA talking to the mob,
41:05
who's talking to people with poison pen guns and all of this sort of stuff,
41:09
that there's a lot of people involved, and Kennedy was involved with civil
41:14
rights and all of that. And then we find out in this file that
41:17
lb J was actually in the ku Kluck's plan. So we get there's a
41:22
lot of stuff. If people keep digging, it's quite interesting what's going on.
41:25
It's just kind of stirred. The pipe has like, what do you
41:30
think about the assassination of lehove Eiswell, do you think we'll have another truth
41:34
about that? What do you think happened there? Well, I mean a
41:36
nightclub owner is in the police headquarters basement. Now this is after Jaak Hoover
41:43
himself had rung the Dallas police twice and said there's been threats on his life
41:47
and then this Jack Ruby just walks into the basement and shoots him in front
41:52
of everyone. It's just it is that shouldn't have happened, but it's about
41:58
silencing him, and that's all that was about. Because he knew but not
42:01
enough. He was one piece in a large puzzle. So who would have
42:06
made him kill? He'd ruby kill Oswald? Who what was the behind?
42:10
That could have been Jake, could have been the mob. It could have
42:14
been the Russians or the Russian it's ever the theory that Jackie herself had a
42:19
gun in the car. And Okay, it's great, Yeah, I mean
42:22
it's endless. We didn't we'll ever have an answer. Well, Trump is
42:27
bringing up the last eighteen hundred files or whatever it is over the next six
42:30
months, so by April twenty eight we should have them all unless someone takes
42:35
him out, which that wasn't a threat to put that out there, because
42:39
the CIA is at my house now anyway. But I think that there's more
42:45
to come, and it's going to be those last couple of pages that we're
42:47
going to find out where that extra shot come from. And it's a great
42:52
who done it? I love it? I love it years in the making.
42:54
Trump Trump doesn't want to bring it out unless people are actually if they're
42:59
alive, Apparently I'm not allowed to bring out the information. Is that right?
43:01
Is that why he's stalled on releasing the last lot of pages. He
43:05
didn't want to stall. He loves the conspiracy. He wants it out there
43:08
because this is also a smoke screen for other things. We won't get into
43:10
all of that as well, but this is something that is in the public
43:15
interest and we need to know that we can trust our governments and the crews
43:19
that we can't. And the more that comes out, the more we have
43:22
Man Howard Well, So there you have it, folks, the Lee Harvey
43:35
Oswald rush with a zero killer. Oh how things would have been different if
43:43
Patrick Kearney had just started his free in nineteen sixty three. Ah right,
43:52
So from that obscure piece of Australian news, we move on now to Raymond
44:02
Cummings. In nineteen sixty three, the upstairs of this building was the Carousel
44:10
Club, a burlesque house operated by Jack Ruby, a Dallas utility company employee
44:19
who was not a part time cab driver, said that during this period he
44:23
once picked up Lee Harvey Oswald, David W. Ferry had an unidentified older
44:30
man and brought them to the club. They witness A farmer Texas Peace officer
44:36
named Raymond Cummings was interrogated recently by investigators for New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison.
44:44
Cummings has told the Dallas District Attorney's office that he telephoned Garrison after reading
44:50
that David Ferry had never been in Dallas. Cummings claimed, in fact that
44:55
he had known Ferry in Dallas given prior to picking you up. Ferry,
45:01
a Farmer Airlines pilot, was found dead in his New Orleans apartment soon after
45:07
Garrison's investigation of him began. Cummings also said that on another occasion, he
45:14
picked up Lee Harvey Oswall at a Dallas bus station and took him to Irving.
45:21
Tomorrow, Cummings and his lawyer will meet with Assistant Dallas District Attorney Bill
45:25
Alexander to make a formal statement about these matters. Cummings is represented by Dallas
45:32
attorney Frank Wright. Today, neither Cummings nor Right will talk with newsmen.
45:38
This is James Curry reporting. During that period, I picked up a man
45:45
in my cab who I later found to be Lee Harvey Oswell. We talked
45:51
at length on the way to the address he had given me. Several months
45:55
later, and to the best of my memory, in early nineteen sixty three,
46:00
I was driving my taxi and was stopped by three men. I recognized
46:06
one of the men as being Lee Harvey Oswald, and we spoke about our
46:10
previous meeting. I have recently learned from seeing photos that a second man was
46:21
David Free. I cannot identify the third party. At third request, I
46:29
took the three men to the Carousel Club on Commerce Street in Dallas, Texas,
46:35
and they left my cap Why didn't you come forward then? Because of
46:38
the publicity it was in this here and due to the fact that I did
46:43
at that time fear for my family, having been a policeman, than you
46:49
trust the police to protect you? Yeah, I'll check the office. Uh
46:52
yes, uh. I had a former marine, the FBI and other government
46:57
of bodies well, Ter Coleman. He also knew about the entertainer at the
47:02
carousel. I imagine who claimed he saw someone in the place and what happened
47:07
to him afterward. I had a lot of harassment, and I think he
47:10
wound up Illinois somewhere. You knew about him, didn't Did you think if
47:15
you waited three years, if you wouldn't get any publicity? Well? I
47:19
was hoping not. Well, Okay, there's still a minute left on this
47:24
audio clip, but apparently that is it. Sorry about the the dead air
47:30
there for a second, or maybe I'll fix it in editing and you'll never
47:34
know. There was an extensive period of dead air there a So now you
47:43
can see why I bundled these two stories together. It's all about picking up
47:47
Lee Harvey Oswald. One by a serial killer and the other by a cabby
47:57
So as I said, or as the news man said. And Raymond Cummings
48:05
himself, who was the second voice he heard on that tape, he did
48:10
not come forth during the Warrant Commission investigation for fear of his life, but
48:17
he felt a little more comfortable to come out in nineteen sixty seven to Jim
48:23
Garrison. So it was mentioned in the first part of the news story that
48:36
Raymond Cummings had met with Jim Garrison, the district Attorney, in his office
48:40
and given them an interview. And I have here the interview summation, not
48:52
the actual Krean script. But this is from William Gurvich, pending the tape
49:10
transcription of the interview with Raymond Cummings in Dallas by James Alcock and William Gurvich.
49:15
The following report is respectfully submitted based on notes made at the time of
49:20
the interview. Raymond Cummings was contacted at the VFW Club on Saturday, the
49:24
twenty fifth of February nineteen and sixty seven at nine o five pm, where
49:30
he was playing music and was interviewed outside of the club. Cummings works for
49:38
the Power and Light Company in Dallas and is a former professional wrestler OO eighty
49:49
three Club Yeah Oh. According to Companies, he was driving a yellow cab
50:00
in Dallas between January and May of sixty three, during which time he recalls
50:07
picking up Lee Harvey Oswald at the Continental Bus Station and driving him to an
50:14
address in Irving, Texas. Oswald did not have enough money to pay the
50:20
fare shockingly and told Commings this. En route to Irving, Oswald apparently saw
50:27
the tattoo on coming his arm and said that he too, was an ex
50:30
marine, adding that he only had on him a dollar fifteen. Companies agreed
50:37
to carry him to Irving and shut the meter off when it reached a dollar
50:42
forty five to ensure himself of whopping nickel tip. Companies recalls that Oswald was
50:52
dressed rather shabbily and was carrying a canvas type handbag similar to that disserviceman carry.
51:00
Oswald was wearing a white shirt with sleeves rolled up and was hatless.
51:05
Commings conveyed him to a house, but the exact address of which he did
51:08
not remember. Oswald told Cummings that he was quote down on his luck.
51:16
Commings offered to go with Alcock and me to Irving in an attempt to locate
51:21
this house. So we met Cummings on Sunday, the twenty sixth of February
51:24
nineteen sixty seven, at twelve oh one pm and drove him to Irving,
51:29
Texas, five miles west of Dallas. Following Comings' directions, we criss crossed
51:36
numerous streets in the section of Irving that looks familiar to Commings without making a
51:43
positive identification. Commings selected eleven o seven Oakdale Street and said this was more
51:49
familiar than any other house he had seen with us. The name on the
51:53
mailbox in front of the house was L. L. Barger. This was
51:57
a small, single residence of wooden construction and a low income, semi rural
52:02
neighborhood. Cummings also informed us that about one week after taking Oswald to Irving,
52:09
that he picked up three men at the intersection of Marcellus and the Expressway
52:15
in Dallas and invade them in his cab to Jack Ruby's Carousel Club. According
52:22
to Cummings, one of these men was again Lee Harvey Oswald, David William
52:31
Free, and he cannot identify the third man. He recalls that Free was
52:39
unusual looking. Cummings identified photographs of Oswald and Free from a variety of photographs
52:46
shown to him. It admits having seen pictures of both Oswald and Free and
52:52
the newspapers. The third man was about six foot in height and looked as
52:57
if he might have been Italian. Comings stated that trip sheets at the Yellow
53:04
Cab Company what as system corroborating his stories. He has never given this information
53:09
to anyone, nor has he ever been approached by anyone for information. On
53:16
route to the Carousel Club, Oswald remembered Cummings and told him he appreciated the
53:22
favor that he did and taking him to irving the three men as coming and
53:25
recalls we're talking about Louisiana. Arriving at the Carousel Club, Free paid the
53:31
fair and the three passengers went upstairs into the club. Something has described Ferry
53:37
as a quote spook in the night and felt sorry for him. Commings then
53:44
went upstairs into the club himself and received the dollar fifty tip from the man
53:46
at the door as a gratuity for bringing in customers. Coming has added that
53:52
to his gratuity system. Oh Coming has added that this gratuity system was not
54:00
uncommon in the city of Dallas at the time. In this interview, Cummings
54:06
stated that he disliked the Dallas Police Department. He admitted having been arrested once
54:10
and that was in Belton, Texas. Explaining this arrest, Coming stated his
54:15
mother was hospitalized and needed surgery, and he had gone to the bank and
54:20
withdrawn a large sum of money and was arrested for having a pistol in the
54:23
front seat of his car, which he claims he had for his own protection.
54:29
Cummings also remarked that he would not object to helping the FBI. Cummings
54:35
added he as a brother, Wesley Cummings, thirty eight years of age,
54:37
was adding in La who might have met free in Dallas. His brother,
54:43
according to Cummings, is also an alcoholic. Without being asked, Coming said
54:49
he would be willing to come to New Orleans, but his fare was paid
54:52
and take a polygraph test. Raymond Cummings as a white male, thirty four
54:58
years of age and RESI nine twenty four Robin hood a sky Texas with his
55:02
wife and children. His phone number is eighteen five six nine one two William
55:10
Gervitch Special Aid. Interestingly enough, of course, on this interview of Raymond
55:22
Cummings. It's typed, of course, but there's some handwritten notes, and
55:36
it has R. E. Thornley, Oswald and Fairy bracketed and as his
55:44
in Dallas. So I'm wondering if they showed this fellow pictures of suspects and
55:55
he identified Thornley as the third man. Interesting. Then there's also a lot
56:04
of handwritten notes kind of sideways on this thing. It's very hard to read
56:09
in very small cursive handwriting, but I'll do my best, folks. It
56:17
says no way to evaluate the veracity of raymond becoming statement. It may be
56:29
something may or may it may It may be quite true, or it may
56:37
be false. We initially were impressed by his apparent truthfulness in telling the story,
56:49
as I recall, and by some of the details. However, when
56:55
he came to New Orleans was when he had volunteered and took the lit detector
57:05
test that he said he would take. The investigative service which provided the test
57:12
reported to our office that he had quote shown deception with regard to substantial details
57:20
of the story. This caused us to something this report on a back shelf.
57:37
Subsequently, however, we learned that the investigative service, which was quote
57:45
helping the office h had provided a lot of detective reports of quote ill legitimate
58:00
something whenever we sent anyone to them, particularly of the subject had anything to
58:07
do with the JFK case. Okay, so basically what they're saying here is
58:13
that the results don't really mean anything because everybody they sent to this company to
58:22
get a lot of detective tests and came back showing deception, especially when it
58:27
was something related to the JFK case. Or maybe everybody you sent to him
58:35
didn't have shit to do with the JFK assassination. Although this is a guy
58:45
who is a former marine, a seemingly stand up guy with a wife and
58:50
a kid's family, a workingman, former police officer with absolutely no motive or
59:00
reason to lie about anything, comes forward to tell what he knows. I
59:10
just I mean, you heard them, you heard the man with your own
59:14
ears. You can go on YouTube and watch him with your own eyes.
59:19
He seems like a perfectly normal, you know man, I don't know.
59:30
And then I came across this threats UPI Raymond Cummings of Dallas cab driver who
59:37
claimed to have carried Oswald twice, once with Ferry to Jack Ruby's joint.
59:44
I said three phone calls had threatened his life before his departure for New Orleans.
59:52
They they said, my time is marked, and I definitely would not
59:57
be able to get in the plane to come back to Dallas if I went
1:00:01
to New Orleans and talked. And this was on March eighteenth, nineteen sixty
1:00:07
seven. So take that for what you will, folks. There's two stories
1:00:15
of two very different individuals claiming to have picked up Lee Harvey Oswald before the
1:00:24
assassination. And story is about, you know, Lee Oswald taking a cab
1:00:35
or taking a bus somewhere hitchhiking. Think of the Ralph leon Yates story.
1:00:44
It's just it's not all around possibility because Oswald didn't own a car and Oswald
1:00:49
allegedly didn't have a driver's license, so it's not out of the realm of
1:00:54
possibility that he got rides with people, that he hitched hike, that he
1:00:59
rode the buzz you took cab places, very very possible. One other thing
1:01:07
I liked to touch on here that I came across, and it has to
1:01:14
do with the arrests in Daily Plaza on November the twenty second, nineteen sixty
1:01:19
three, and is the subject we broached here many times on the show about
1:01:23
people who were also arrested on November the twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
1:01:28
But there's one in here that I'd never heard before, So let's go through.
1:01:32
Says. By late afternoon on the day of the assassination, there was
1:01:36
little official doubt and either Washington or Dallas that the assassin was Lee Harvey Oswald.
1:01:42
The frantic media assured an anxious world that the case was virtually solved.
1:01:46
New leads were hardly pursued after that time. Still, this does not explain
1:01:52
the lack of daisical attitude shown by the Dallas police officials immediately after the shots
1:01:55
were fired, and even before Oswald was in custody. Nearly a dozen people
1:02:01
were taken into custody in and around Daily Plaza within minutes of the shooting.
1:02:07
In some cases the suspects were taken in for questioning, and in other cases
1:02:10
they were released on the spot. It is forever perplexing that in most of
1:02:15
these instances no records were kept of the identities of those detained. The most
1:02:21
famous of those taken into custody have come to be known as the Dallas Tramps,
1:02:25
three bedraggled looking men rounded up in the railroad yards near the area of
1:02:30
the Grassy Knoll. They were discovered in a box car, and many critics
1:02:34
believe had been in a prime location to have something to do with the assassination.
1:02:39
Even if they had nothing to do with the killings, the argument goes,
1:02:43
they should have been regarded as potential witnesses. They had been in a
1:02:46
potentially good location to see activities that could have helped an investigation. However,
1:02:52
no record exists of what any of them said. There is no record even
1:02:57
of their names, or where they came from, or what they were doing
1:03:00
in the box car behind the Grassy Knoll. To this day, there is
1:03:04
an unending speculation about who these men were. Now. Of course, this
1:03:09
being written prior to the release of the Dallas police files in the late eighties,
1:03:16
where we got the identities of these three individuals. That this is before
1:03:24
they were known. It is ironic that while no official record exists of the
1:03:30
detention of the Dallas Tramps, their seizure is one of the best photographed events
1:03:34
in daily plaza aside from the actual assassination. Indeed, the number of photographs
1:03:42
provide a solid basis for identification. They pointed as contributed immensely to the intense
1:03:47
interest in the tramps. Some critics point out that the photographs showed clearly that
1:03:52
two of the three tramps seemed to be tramps only in their dress. Careful
1:03:59
inspection shows that their hair is closely and neatly cropped, obviously by a competent
1:04:03
barber, and their shoes are thick soled and a good repair. They are
1:04:09
freshly shaven and rain clothing that appears raggedy, but on close inspection is merely
1:04:14
wrinkled. It was more than two weeks after the assassination that the Dallas Times
1:04:18
Herald reported that a thirty one year old Dallas man arrested the day of the
1:04:24
assassination remained in jail, even though he had been cleared of the original suspicion
1:04:30
of involvement in the Kennedy killing. The newspaper reported that the man was arrested
1:04:34
in the railroad yards. The newspaper described the arrest the suspect was unarmed when
1:04:42
arrested, but booked along with others arrested in the hectic hours following in the
1:04:46
assassination on charges of investigation of conspiracy to commit murder. The newspaper report added
1:04:55
that once these charges were dropped, the man continued to be held on quote
1:05:00
city charges. To this day, the man's identity has not been released.
1:05:05
There is no record indicating that any federal or state officers ever questioned the man
1:05:10
about what he had seen in the lot behind the stockade fence at the time
1:05:14
the shooting started. It's fair to assume that if he had seen nothing suspicious
1:05:18
from that advantage point, his testimony would have been used to bolster the official
1:05:23
version that nothing unusual was going on behind the stock age fence. Another arrest
1:05:29
chronicled by The Times Harold was that of a young man on the street who
1:05:32
was pointed out to police by spectators standing at a third floor window of the
1:05:39
book depository. The newspaper reported that workers were pecking on a window and pointing
1:05:45
to a man wearing horn rimmed glasses, a plant coat and ringcoat. A
1:05:51
Dallas police officer arrested the young man and took him to a ship share of
1:05:56
build Becker's office nearby, according to the news paper, which added, with
1:06:00
the young man protesting, the crowd all along the way jeered at him as
1:06:04
he was escorted across the street. Officers on the case would not explain what
1:06:11
connection the man might have with the shooting, nor would they identify him.
1:06:17
There's no other record of the sensing. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, the police
1:06:28
officer who had been cited for his superior work, revealed one of the most
1:06:30
astonishing arrests. Greig made his statements in a taped interview in nineteen seventy one
1:06:35
with assassination researcher Gary Shaw. Craig stated that minutes after the shooting, Dallas
1:06:42
police detained a Latin man whom they had seized on Elm Street. Craig,
1:06:49
who witnessed the arrest, stated that this was the same man he later saw
1:06:54
driving the Rambler station wagon. They picked up a man in front of the
1:06:58
depository. According to Craig, the Latin man was released when he indicated that
1:07:03
he and no speaking no English, so interesting, very interesting. While the
1:07:15
three tramps along with the Dallas man were taken into custody in the general area
1:07:19
behind the grass he Knoll, other arrests were made on the upper side of
1:07:24
Daily near the Book Depository, directly across Houston from the Depository building with the
1:07:30
dal Text Building. Some critics and researchers have long believed that this building is
1:07:34
the most logical location for a second gunman. Indeed, if a shot fired
1:07:39
from that position nearly coincided it was one fire from the sixth floor of the
1:07:43
depository, two things could be accomplished. First, it could at last explain
1:07:48
how two shots could be fired on one point six six seconds. Second the
1:07:54
bullet by striking Connelly an instant after Kennedy was hit to relieved the magic bullet
1:07:59
of a miraculous performance. In any event, at least three people who were
1:08:03
into dal Text Building were detained by authorities photograph show please searching. One young
1:08:10
man who claimed to have wandered into the dal Text in search of a telephone.
1:08:15
When he found that all of the lines were tied up, he left
1:08:17
the building, outside of which he encountered police He was taken to the Sheriff's
1:08:21
office and then released. Another young man was led from the dal Text by
1:08:27
police. He would described as wearing a black leather jacket and the black leather
1:08:32
gloves. There is no record of his statement of all the activity at the
1:08:38
dal Text building. Nothing is more astonishing than the arrest of a shadowy figure
1:08:42
with a pocket full of alienses on that day. He used the identity of
1:08:45
Jim Braden. The Dallas police took him into custody after an elevator operator pointed
1:08:51
out that his passenger did not have a familiar face. Braden, who then
1:09:00
had an FBI rap sheet about three dozen arrests, was in Dallas on the
1:09:03
day of the assassination because of a meeting on the previous day with one of
1:09:09
hl Hunt's sons to discuss some oil leasing business. It so happened that Oswald's
1:09:14
killer, Jack Ruby, was also in the hl Hunt offices that day,
1:09:17
but there's no record indicating that there was a common meeting of Braden Ruby in
1:09:21
any of the Hunts. Braden claimed that he had been walking along the streets
1:09:26
near Dey Plaza when the shooting started. He tried to flag down a taxi,
1:09:31
but had to luck because he was walking past the Daltech's. He inquired
1:09:35
of someone standing out front of a public if a public telephone was available inside.
1:09:42
He was told he might find one on the third floor. Claims he
1:09:45
went to the third floor, found the phone was out of order, and
1:09:48
immediately returned to street level by the elevator. Deputy Sheriff C. L.
1:09:54
Lewis, tipped off by the elevator operator, took Brayden in the clasicity and
1:09:59
escorted him in to the Sheriff's officers questioning. Braden, apparently, though,
1:10:02
was well prepared. A few months earlier, he had started using the name
1:10:08
Jim Braden. In reality, he was Eugene Hale Grading, and if Dallas
1:10:12
police had been given that name, they might have readily identified him as a
1:10:15
man with serious felony convictions around the country, including burglary, embezzlement, mail
1:10:20
fraud, and conspiracy. Braden was released about an hour later. The Sheriff's
1:10:27
office accepted his story. Think he was simply in town on oil business.
1:10:31
So there you have it, folks. A lot of crazy we did.
1:10:41
A couple knew that I hadn't heard about, said to the man in the
1:10:45
black leather jacket and the black leather gloves arrested. Also, Fellow arrested because
1:10:54
the people on the third floor of the school book Depository were picking on the
1:10:57
window saying, hey, arrest that guy who had horn rimmed glasses and a
1:11:01
raincoat on very interesting, very very mean Thunners team. Well, that is
1:11:13
about it for this show from folks and friends, so once again, thank
1:11:18
you for tuning in. He'll get yourself some hot sauce from Silk City Hot
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Sauce dot com. Enter the code Gunman check out for twenty percent off of
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your entire order. Make sure you check out lance Or This year, folks,
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your boy and his buddy Joe really will be presenting. You won't want
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to miss it. It's gonna be blockbuster type stuff, so make sure you
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check it out. Follow along on TikTok, Twitter and Instagram at the Lone
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Gumming seven and on YouTube search for the Lone Gumming podcast channel and subscribe and
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get notified. Anyway, that's it for this week, folks, Thank you,
1:12:00
and until we meet again, by friends and joy the Beautiful Sounds Shepherd
1:12:08
of Fire and their hit single Spiritcy Looking to the words, folks, like
1:12:32
everyone and the light to tell you the biggest ben that you champ came.
1:13:12
Yeah, they doing them all waiting along with soud the trouble rup and begone
1:13:34
the trouble. The thing I do with long if they got simple song,
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tell't be a one. Let me tell you you be down you the pething
1:14:10
that you champain long way ah wait side, wait side is a situation.
1:14:28
Nobody raining U from me. He kind of him. We caught him head
1:14:33
and he fell s down his back. Dad of his card one was on
1:14:38
him head and the candy card on on down one. Love you the biggest
1:15:08
being that child champkin. Yeah, they ain't the We're born alway aware alway
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so I'll get us out. Doesn't eyes that I ree