Latest / The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell / #27 - Dropping Out of College, Overcoming Anxiety, and Returning Stronger with Phillip White

Transcript

#27 - Dropping Out of College, Overcoming Anxiety, and Returning Stronger with Phillip White · The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: My uh social circle um kind of condensed a bit.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, at first I was pretty like hurt or just like confused, like what was I doing wrong?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, as I've come to realize, is people are just different.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and you know not everybody likes chocolate cake, even though chocolate cake's amazing.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like you can't please everybody.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: What's up, y'all?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Seeking Authenticity.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Flint Mitchell, and I get absolutely psyched by having conversations with authentic people that I admire about the things they value.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Their stories and perspectives don't just make me smile, laugh, and think.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: They inspire me to wake up earlier, listen better, focus, and work harder, and help make me a better version of myself.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it's my hope that sharing these conversations through this podcast might do the same thing for you.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: In this episode, I talk with my longtime friend and future roommate, Philip White.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Phil and I grew up in the Bay Area, California, in the same classrooms, soccer teams, and friend groups.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: After going to different high schools, we ended up at the same university, 1500 miles away from home.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Though we grew up with similar demeanors, we had fairly different experiences of college, and Phil ended up leaving school two years later.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: In this episode, we talk about the hard work he put in to both start off his career before returning to college and to alleviate some of his own personal anxieties and issues.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: That hard work is what led to the reflective, dedicated, and strong perspective he has now that you hear in this podcast.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Likewise, we talk about the joys of focus, the impacts of social media, the need for loving and caring others, becoming independent, and both the importance and drawbacks of expressing the most authentic form of yourself.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: I really enjoyed this episode and this conversation, and I know you will too.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for doing this with me, Phil.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course, brother.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm glad uh I'm honored to be on here.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, Doc.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Now we've uh I mean we've been friends since we were like two years old.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh way back.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: Way back.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, so this should be pretty fun.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, considering we've been friends for so long, uh, I think the story's pretty funny, right?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: We went to school together all through or up until high school.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we were best friends until then, and then we went to different schools for high school, uh, and then we stopped talking for like a couple years, and randomly we we ended up at the same college in Texas.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then kind of after that, I mean, we we fell apart again a little bit, and that was kind of around the sophomore junior year uh of college, and it seemed like you were having some trouble with uh SMU specifically.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: I know you you took a little break and and recently graduated from Santa Clara.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: I was wondering if you could tell me a bit about that time period um when you kind of decided that SMU wasn't really your path.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, funnily enough, we both ended up at SMU.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I was looking uh at rushing the same fraternity, Sigma Chai as you for a bit.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where we re-uh reconnected.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I ended up not rushing.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I rushed, but I didn't uh accept any of the bids to join the fraternity, and so it was the spring of freshman year um when kind of all my friends started rushing and uh joining the fraternity, and I started feeling uh a bit ostracized, to say the least.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of from there, my anxiety started growing.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just kind of felt uh outside of the social circle, um, and I was losing confidence to the point to where I'd go to class and I'd start having these major anxiety attacks, and it got so bad that by the end of my sophomore year I knew that at least in the moment I couldn't continue going on to school anymore.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I would just skip classes to try to avoid the crazy anxiety that I was experiencing.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Was there a moment when you were like, this is it, I gotta get out of here?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was in an anthropology class and sitting there, and all of a sudden uh I just felt like the the world was caving in on me, and I started like profusely sweating and freaking out, having this panic attack.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, dude, I need to, I need to get out of here now.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I just grabbed my stuff and and dipped out of class.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, it was kind of in that moment I was like, dude, like this is out of control.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I literally have no control over what's happening.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that's when I started thinking drop out, uh change paths.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: What was what was that process like of dropping out?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh man, that was super rough.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, uh my parents were supportive.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they the only thing that they forced was that I had a job leaving, um, or had some sort of thing to do.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I wasn't just sitting at home like playing video games, not doing anything, you know.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think the hardest part honestly was feeling uh like the fear of missing out.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, all my friends were going on, living it up, partying, getting their degrees, um, socializing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was uh, you know, on the brink of just going back home, living at home, and uh trying to start my professional career uh with not a lot to work with.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it was kind of a leap of faith that I had to take.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it's a it's a big one.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure that was extremely tough leaving all your friends and everything, and kind of leaving this path, at least for the time being, that everyone else was on.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um what was kind of your mindset then?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: What what things were you trying to maybe change or or get new experiences in to kind of pivot your life during those two years when you were out of SMU?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one of the biggest um factors was just getting healthy again.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always very fit, played soccer throughout high school.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um freshman year, I was in the gym a lot.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: But then uh kind of around you know, the spring semester, freshman year, when everybody started rushing, um, I lost so much motivation.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, stopped going to the gym, drinking more, just eating poorly, just not taking care of my body.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I progressively gained weight and started not liking the way I was looking and appearing, and just trying to regain a lot of that confidence and some of the mental issues that came about from being unhealthy physically.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think a big thing for me was kind of getting that physical uh health back on track.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was kind of my first like tangible goal um leaving college.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now I think that's a it's I think it's a tough one sometimes for people to realize how big of a mental impact it'll have on you.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, getting that kind of aspect of your life together.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't even have to be like a huge spiral, you know.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's just like you're out of it for a week or like two weeks, you don't work out, or you don't do anything too physical, and you're like, oh my God, why am I so lazy?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: And like, what's going on?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, oh, I haven't done anything athletic or exercise in a while.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, so freeing for your mind.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's uh it's definitely not just like you said, you don't go in a spiral.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it happens to me to this day, as I'm sure most people, you know, you uh absolutely not motivated, you skip the gym a couple of days, you don't go for a run or whatever.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it definitely kind of bogs your mind down a bit.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I was experiencing that uh in a heightened fashion for sure.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: How did you then, I mean, was it just exercise?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Were there other things you went went after or kind of changed during those years in order to get yourself on some sort of track?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there was a lot.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and starting out, uh, I wouldn't advise people doing what I did.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but kind of, you know, growing up all the way until um a few years ago, I just kind of kept everything to myself, partially due to like, you know, an ego or just not wanting others to see me in a conscious state, self-conscious state, I should say.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I just tried to solve everything myself.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't seek help.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I wanted to kind of fix my anxiety on my own.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I was trying to alleviate that and gain my confidence back, which all kind of ties into you know the physical and mental uh struggles that I was going through as a result of college and leaving it.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then also, you know, I kind of wanted to prove myself.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really striving to be successful in work um and pushing hard to, you know, I wanted to be like a role model for people that didn't want to go to college or struggled like me, that you know, you can be successful without a degree.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So those were definitely my biggest mindsets leaving college.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, and I like the way you phrase that.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of this idea of creating, I don't even want to say purpose, but you like find yourself in a predicament and it's very positive, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Instead of looking back or instead of sitting on the couch and playing video games, right?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: You not only find some sort of track, some sort of professional track by working, but then you find a reason why you should be working hard at it.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: When did you decide that?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Or was it even like a decision when you decided, like, all right, I'm gonna do this in order to show other people that they can do the same thing.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, um it was almost just like being fed up with my situation in the world.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I came home and I'd see family friends or my parents' friends, and they'd asked what I was doing, and I was like, oh well, I dropped out of college.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Oh, well, uh, you know, are you working now?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yeah, I'm working at my grandfather's car wash.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, just looking at that from the outside with no context, it seems pretty uh pretty dull and kind of sad, uh honestly.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I could just feel the like almost pity that I would get.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I hated it, man.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and I hated that, and it got to the point where I'd heard it so many times, and I was just ashamed to even say it, to where I wanted to be able to be confident um in that and just kind of I don't know if prove people wrong is the right term, but uh you know, stand up for myself in a sense.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, there's this balance that is hard to find, right?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's there's this whole idea that is about doing everything yourself, and and or actually I take that back, it's about proving everything to yourself, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I agree with that, like you should be proud of yourself, you should do things that make yourself proud, but you're also interacting with the world.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: So there is like you will always interact with society in certain ways, and regardless of if you care what they think or what they say, there is this kind of balance of I don't know exactly how to say it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do you see what I'm saying though?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I feel like I get the gist of where you're coming from.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, you're not only proving to yourself, but you know, actions speak louder than words.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So through what you're doing, you're also kind of conveying that message onto others.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I guess.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's like, I don't know, I think that there is potentially still some positive aspects.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh like I don't even know if I want to say positive because you know, I I don't think it's right for people to pity or judge you.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: But there it isn't, I guess what I'm saying is it isn't necessarily always bad to do something uh in order to prove yourself outwards as well.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of feel bad saying that.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, ideally people would uh people would do things for themselves entirely and not care about what other people think, but um, you know, the world isn't perfect per se.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're we're people were prone to make mistakes and uh we're not ideal beings.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so you know, I think there is something to be said that you know, struggle and adversity, we do kind of need it because without that, then we wouldn't really feel the the true heights of joy and uh success.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um absolutely no, and I guess my perspective though, the the way I I say that is like maybe not proving to society, but like imagine if you have a family, you know, you have a wife or you have a husband or whatever.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't necessarily think it would be bad to prove to them certain qualities are true, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think also for me, like social media was very toxic for me at the time.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, constantly on it, checking in at you know, everybody back in college, what they're doing.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: It looked great, looked fun, looked like they had no problems, and now I was just over here, uh, you know, just completely out of touch with uh the people of my age and friends.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was also kind of that I wanted to show myself in a good light.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um right, yeah, that makes sense.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: Now, and and that's especially a hard one.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: And as I'm sure you understand, those people's lives were not all perfect, but they were going down this, I guess, all down all the same path.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: You talk about the working at the car wash, though.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I do like this because it's like this idea that it's not great that people are are giving you this kind of judgment when you're telling them about it, but when you talk about it, you don't talk about it as if you were pitying yourself.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like it sounds like it was a great experience for you.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I loved working at the car wash.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: It actually became a big passion of mine.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was there seven days a week, I you know, 80 hours a week practically, um week in, week out.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it, man.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was outside, I was interacting with people, I bonded with all my employees.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was working with my grandfather, so I got some you know, family bonding time there as well.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just kind of to, you know, I really wanted to make him proud.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was kind of like proving myself to my family after dropping out, too.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I had I had a lot of great experiences, and I think it really kind of put me in the right direction after leaving college.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: What is so fun about working at the car wash?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do you have any favorite memories that kind of symbolize why it was so fun?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think to start off, um, I started out in sales, you know, selling car washes and detailing, and it kind of became a game for all the salesmen, and I'm very competitive.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that really like, you know, I wasn't playing sports at the time, so that really satisfied my competitive edge.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was out there to outsell you and and beat you.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really fun for me.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but also I just think the culture, you know, the the people that work there, that's their whole life.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the guys lived in Modesto and they're driving two hours to work, and you know, they're working there six days a week, and on the their day off, they're just zonked, so they're you know, sleeping and just hanging out with the family.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I think it was the culture, you know, it was it was their whole lives, so they made it fun.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and they really bonded like a family.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I I grew a lot of close connections to people that I would have probably never grown close to uh in my life if I hadn't worked at the car wash.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or even potentially met.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just passed passed on by as I roll through the wash.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: So then was that kind of it so it sounds like that was kind of the bouncing board for you to you know, this is and this is that whole idea of throwing yourself, people throw themselves into things maybe when they're in crisis mode or in their when they're in intense situations.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so it sounds like you were in kind of a hard mental place.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so you threw yourself at like this work and found these these great people and this kind of this competitive sales atmosphere.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Was that the balancing board then for you to uh kind of find a different path?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um I'm very you know, uh I'm fully invested in something or I'm not, and so I just fully invested myself in the car wash and it helped take my mind off of a lot of my struggles.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so it was great in that sense, but when I wasn't working, I was still kind of lost, didn't really know what to do, and so that spurred me to try out lots of different jobs.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most of the time, uh, during in between college stints, I was working like two to three jobs.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just because I was trying to find something uh that I was very passionate about, um, and I was curious about different uh work paths.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so yeah, it definitely pushed me to try new things.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was gaining confidence back, you know.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was very I was insanely tan uh because I was outside all the time and I was back in the gym.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I was feeling a lot better about myself um physically, which kind of led to the mental um you know health as well.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, were there any moments or times when you kind of look back and I'm talking about in this in this time period, not afterwards.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: Were there any moments where you looked back and you had any semblance of gratitude for the way it had happened?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: Or was it all resistance?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are you saying my perspective now?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: No, when you were in that time period.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um those were a lot of there were a lot of dark times in that period.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was not a happy camper.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, definitely battled with you know depression and anxiety for a good amount of time, and I was uh I don't know if I pitied myself, but I definitely felt that like I should have been in a better situation than I was.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there was definitely resistance.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I, you know, I wanted to get promotions as quick as possible, and if things didn't go the way I thought they should, regardless if they were right or wrong, I'd get frustrated and just felt like people didn't really give me the time of day or consider me an important figure because I didn't have a degree um nor much work experience and I was young.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's definitely a lot of resistance, but now looking back, uh I I wouldn't change uh anything.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I say that because I think it's I think that's generally true for a lot of people in hard situations, is you're usually only appreciative of for the experience after you're out of the dark time.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's an incredible skill when you see people that go through dark times, you know, thanking the world around them for it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's not the truth for most people.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh generally you got to battle those things.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Was it then like a slow upward trend?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Or was it were you did you bounce up and down for those two years?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd say overall it was a slow upward trend, but uh you know what life is like, it's kind of roller coaster.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there are definitely, you know, good weeks and bad weeks, good days, bad days.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, overall, I think you know, it was kind of in line with the progress I was making.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with my body, you know, it was a slow process, kind of losing the weight, building up some muscle, and also just, you know, I had a lot of time by myself.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Most of my friends, pretty much all my friends were in college and gone.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd get off work, and besides the gym, even you know, at the gym, I was all to myself.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I spent a lot of time contemplating myself and trying to learn about how I can grow.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that really um helped me.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also during this time, I completely got off of social media.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I kind of tuned out what others were doing and just focused on what made me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Happy.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, dude, solitude's a tough one.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it can make you go either way, it can make you go both ways at once.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, and I definitely experience the full spectrum, uh, the goods and the bads.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a big analyzer, I overthink everything.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes, yeah, I just go in this spiral of some pretty nasty thoughts.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, in the long run, I've learned so much about myself and kind of I'm now more aware when I'm kind of going down those bad spirals, and I can I can help to bounce back.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and do you know what's your uh uh what's the what's the word for it?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um the like flags when like uh for an example for me, I don't know if I we've talked about this, but the other day I was um I was super stressed out.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was a month or two ago.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: It was just totally in my head.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was on social media, I don't know what I was doing, but I was not like stoked at that moment.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my two or two of my um your your go-to coping mechanism, I guess.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Coping mechanism, thank you.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, so one of my coping mechanisms is hot chocolate.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: And one of uh my other coping mechanism, probably the main one, is just like the ocean in general.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was sitting uh just staring at work that I was supposed to be doing and not doing any of it, really stressed out.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I like I swear I blinked.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: And when I opened my eyes, I was sitting at Cafe Brony, which is down the street with a hot chocolate in front of me.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out at Cafe Broni, they have incredible hot chocolates.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Great book.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then and I'm looking at this hot chocolate, and then I blink again.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: And when I opened my eyes, I am I had driven to Half Moon Bay.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: I was standing in the ocean.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: And at that moment, I looked around and I was like, Yeah, I think I might be stressed right now.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you almost just kind of black out, and then uh wherever your your mind wants to take you, you go.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I for sure uh have coping mechanisms.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think my main one throughout my life has just been like food in general.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't really know the exact specifics of why, um, but I think it just provides some sense of like happiness or comfort when you get bite into like a donut or whatnot.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh also for me is just like waking up in the morning.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if I'm really struggling to get up in the morning and feeling unmotivated, that's usually a big sign that uh, you know, something's lacking.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um so definitely the getting up in the morning and then the more obvious is the the food for sure and my diet.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Has it become easier for you?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Or I I guess the what I'm curious about is do you think that this self-awareness or increased self-awareness of these coping mechanisms, or maybe of the times when you're starting to use them?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, do you think that is a result of this aspect of isolation or of self-reflection?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, 100%.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I've spent a lot of time on my own.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, I think it's hard because once you kind of like when you're testing in a science lab, um, when you really want to get down to the answers, you take away all the other variables and test a single variable.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm with friends, if I'm out doing a bunch of things, um, there's a lot of different variables that can affect my mood, my actions, how I'm feeling.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're with yourself, uh there's only one thing there to point fingers to.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so that really highlighted um a lot of my issues um mentally and physically.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, definitely self-contemplation uh and just isolation really highlighted, emphasized areas um that I'm now aware of about myself.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think that brings up another aspect of balance that is really interesting.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think that maybe it's our generation, or maybe that's just my perspective on it, but it seems like there is a larger focus on these kind of meditative reflective activities.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: However, there's also this idea that that is in itself just thinking too much, right?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so, where do you find, maybe where have you found the balance of having reflection, but not having too much of it, like still going out into the world and going to be with your friends and stuff like that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: How do you decide what is like the right amount of reflection to have in life?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's uh that is a hard question.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely have uh struggled coming up with the answer for that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think there's one universal answer.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I definitely approach it in the extremes where you know I went through year-long periods of being very social, constantly out there and kind of um dialing down how I felt and my inner thoughts.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I've also gone through years where I haven't really socialized that much, haven't connected with friends, and just kind of stayed by myself and tried working on myself.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and both aren't uh ideal.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: You need a balance.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's you know, you kind of have to go off of how you're feeling, um, especially during you know the COVID.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was really missing connecting with people and talking with friends.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I I got a lot of self-growth.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I grew a lot during that time.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was living by myself in Santa Clara, finishing out my uh school year, and you know, it was great for a month, but after that, I just I knew that I needed to socialize and talk with people and just kind of be in the world a little more.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that I think just comes with you know self-awareness.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: The more you know about yourself, you kind of understand what you're missing um and what you need and how certain things make you feel.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard for me to give an exact answer.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Some people I mean that's a good point, which is and and I think this is kind of what I was getting at, it's kind of where my mind is at on it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's like in order to understand the things that are important to you, you do need times of reflection.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: However, it doesn't matter how much you reflect unless you went out and did those things.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a big problem for me is man, I was waiting until things were perfect.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I wanted to look a certain way, be you know, confident in myself before I went back kind of like into the world, uh, so to say, after I left college.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I wanted to come out.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wanted to come out as just this, you know, stud uh pretty much, and want people to, you know, uh, I don't know, you know, want people to yeah, respect me, exactly.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I definitely waited like too long, and uh you kind of get lost uh in yourself um without others.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we definitely need people for our sanity and uh just to kind of keep us on track, you know.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: And no, and I appreciate you you know being open about that because it's I think it's something that is apparent in a lot of the ways people act in general.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, on social media, it's you're actually in this act of building up, well, not everyone, but quite a few people are in this act of building up a profile that is there to establish some sort of like you know, character or you know, avatar that other people see, and it's not necessarily who they are, right?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: But it's hard for people to I don't know, not even just break down that wall, maybe even to just be themselves.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's a point at which, you know, if you are trying to be this person for everyone else, you know, there's a point where you stop being anything to yourself, or you start you stop like seeing even seeing yourself as who you are, you start to see yourself as like not being enough or not being this other person that you're supposed to be.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of things to say to that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know so many people, a lot of my close friends, their social media persona is a 180 from who they are in real life.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm I was definitely guilty of that too.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I try to come off as you know, super happy, like loving college, killing it, you know, partying, whatnot, back uh at SMU.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh just it wasn't who I was, it wasn't how I was feeling.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was just very, you know, this is what gets likes, this is what uh you know, the popular kids are doing.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh welcome to 2020.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, and it, you know, it sucks to admit that I was there, but I was, you know.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um just trying to fit in.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, it it's it's really hard.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also the idea of comparison.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you see somebody online, you're like, damn, I'd love to be him.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You try to like mimic their life or the way they dress, act, um, and it can become very toxic very quickly.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Was but it you got off of social media, and it sounds like, you know, I I think there's a point to be made about these kind of extremes.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like people say you should find a balance, but at the same time, in order to find the neutral zone, you have to kind of throw yourself over the edge and like throw yourself into isolation for a little bit and be like, all right, actually, yeah, this is nice, but I'm not really a fan of this to this extent.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Or like, and then you throw yourself into the other hand, you're like, well, I was isolated, now I'm gonna go, you know, to the bars every night, and you're like, oh, it's probably not good either.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, you and then you kind of level out as you go on.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it sounds like then there was maybe a moment or a or a time period where you started to get back onto social media and then you went back to college.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: What was that kind of time period like for you mentally?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: How did you overcome some of these obstacles that had been set uh up from the prior college experience?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um I left Southern Methodist mid-2015.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and right around that time is when I got off of social media.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: My roommate at college and also one of my best friends, he uh kind of started the movement where he got off of social media and I really respected a lot of things he did.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that kind of helped me get by the barrier of, oh, you know, I'm missing out, I want to know what people are doing.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that spurred me to get out, and then I think I came back on like late 2017, somewhere around there, umly because of uh Danny as well.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I had done a lot of progress, I was feeling a lot better.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had gotten a decent job.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is before Santa Clara.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'd gotten a decent job, um, and I was feeling a lot more confident.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also I'd kind of, you know, I was seeking friendship, connection with people, being more social.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was curious to what all my friends who I'd kind of lost touch with, you know, even you, uh, were up to.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so Danny really helped me kind of you know establish, you know, you can go on social media and use it for you know in a good manner where you're just keeping up to date with friends, but you're not glued to it and you're not uh you know, psychotically refreshing your feed every you know five minutes to see what the latest party is or you know, the latest you know car somebody's rolling in, whatnot.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's this idea of like tying it to your to your identity.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think a big thing too is like I went back like saying, you know, I'm gonna be me.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna worry about what others think, I'm not gonna worry about likes or you know how many followers I have.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I just kind of want to be me and uh express myself.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if people want to, you know, connect with like who I actually am, then I I love that.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I didn't want to try to like fake uh being you know this person that I I wanted to be or wanted people to view me as anymore.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Has that had any, you know, have you had any negative experiences because of that, or has it been mostly positive?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'd say in the long run, positive.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people, I don't know if they didn't like me or uh just kind of like lost touch.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I definitely like my uh social circle um kind of condensed a bit.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, at first I was pretty like hurt or just like confused, like what was I doing wrong?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, as I've come to realize, is people are just different, and you know, not everybody likes chocolate cake, even though chocolate cake's amazing.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like you can't please everybody.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so you know, some people just aren't uh, you know, we're just on different wavelengths.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh you know, not meant to be per se.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't let that like it's not nothing that I did wrong, it's just we're different people, you know.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's an it's an interesting one.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think it kind of touches on this subject of like projection, like people project.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know exactly.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's both an aspect of like people project themselves onto you, but they also project it sounds wrong, but you onto you.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you have created this image, they're going to hold on to it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's this, you know, if you create an identity, which everyone does, you become this character, you have certain values and traits, and you do certain things, people hold on to that and they connect with that.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: And if you change that, sometimes other people aren't willing to let go of that image of you.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think a very easy one to see is drinking alcohol because I I experienced this, I took a couple months off of drinking alcohol just because I realized since I started drinking, I hadn't taken any long periods off, you know, maybe a week or two at a time.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I was like, all right, I wonder what that would be like.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like what what would happen in my life?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: How would it change if I just did this little experiment?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I found that it was so not important, but it was so like it was always kind of there.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like you go out to a restaurant, you have some alcohol, you go to a bar, you get get some booze, you ask someone, what do you want to do tonight?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: You go, oh, let's go get a drink.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with that, you know.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh always down to get a beer.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: But if you take this time off, then that answer has to change.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: And some people won't let it change.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: They can't even it doesn't change anything about you.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you stopped eating chocolate cake, I wouldn't think anything less of you.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes, you know, you still want to be with the guy who eats the chocolate cake.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: You still want to be with the guy who's drinking, right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: And and and for whatever reason, it can destroy friendships or it can pause friendships, you know.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: People and maybe you do change because of it, but people can't really get rid of that past image of you, and they don't there's like it it puts this like impediment in or this space in between you that you can't overcome.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think kind of in a similar fashion too, you know, the friendship may have bonded over like in your instance, like the alcohol.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like that was like the commonality, and that's what you know, uh really you guys bonded about it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds very surface level, but um, you know, it it it is a great uh experience, you know, going with the boys, getting a couple drinks.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, who doesn't love that?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, it's it that in itself is a bonding moment.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: However, you know, if your whole friendship is based off of that, um it's gonna be hard for it to survive without it, if that makes sense.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, no, and I wouldn't even say, I mean, I I do understand that, and I I I I agree with the point, like if I like the way you say it, the only commonality is the drinking, you know.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: You if the only time you ever hang out is at a bar or you know, over drinks, wherever, um, I could see that, but it and I've it this isn't even my own personal experience.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know other people who have stopped drinking for other reasons, and they've had similar experiences where and they did it permanently, right?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: I just did this little experiment, they did it permanently and they lost friends permanently because for whatever reason, those friends that they had had for long periods of time that they didn't only hang out with drinking, they saw them in a different way, like their identity changed in their mind.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it like, what do you think it is that people hold on to?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what why is this idea of another person changing so hard for you know someone to grasp that it's like okay for them to change?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, one possible reason for that is you know, maybe they're unwilling to change.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, maybe they see uh like you know, stopping drinking, uh like you stopping drinking.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they're kind of envious, but they don't think that they can do it per se.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of hard for them to like admit that, oh, I may have like a drinking problem, or you know, oh, like I am you know drinking more than I want, but they're afraid of if they don't drink.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's definitely a hard question.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, no, there's that that idea of projection.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: There also, this is another thing I just thought of, which is there's if uh the person doing it uh isn't able to fully explain why, uh, there's might just be a uh a lapse in understanding between the two people, right?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: If they don't understand, I think actually this is a big one.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't understand why people are doing something, sometimes you think they're doing it because of you or doing it for you, or to attack you.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's one of the biggest things in sales.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: You don't sell what you're doing, you sell why.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't sell how you're doing it, you sell why.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you can't sell somebody on why you're doing something, then it doesn't hold a lot of validity in their eyes.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: I see that.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: How do you convince someone that the why you're selling is why they should want it?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like why it's the right reason why.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that that's very uh personalized.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, everybody has their own whys, but I think the the message um could be you know betterment of others or yourself, um, to challenge yourself, uh to um, you know, kind of like in David Goggins uh you know words, like just push yourself and to your limits um and try to like fully experience the um you know the power of your brain and what you can do and set your mind to.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that there's something to be said for you know wanting to constantly challenge yourself and grow.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're kind of just you know moving along, cruising along, you're not gonna be doing a lot of growth compared to if you're really challenging yourself and becoming confident in being able to control your own mind, uh, per se, in your own actions.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Something that I found difficult on that subject because I am, I mean, I'm all about that whole idea of like throwing yourself into the fire, going on long it could be runs or it could be long work periods or like just doing things that push you in certain ways.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that there is a one of the main difficulties is it always leads into some form of burnout.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, even if it's a minor one, there's always some period of burnout.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe that touches on this idea of awareness.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like you create awareness on the times when you're burning out.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: What is a Way that you think, or what is a way that you have found to get through those periods of burnout or those periods of, you know, when we talked about earlier, there's like there have been extreme ups and downs after college.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: What are kind of the ways that you get yourself through those lower moments?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I think just like you know, life is balanced to start off.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: So just as you push yourself really hard, you also need to rest.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, to put it into like uh tangible terms, like uh I was weightlifting for a long time, and um resting and getting sleep is just as important as actually going to the gym and lifting.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's like, you know, you can work really hard, but if you're not taking care of yourself mentally and physically and giving yourself ample rest, you're not gonna get anywhere.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's part of the process is learning to be okay with taking time off when needed.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and to answer the second part of your question, you know, how do I get through it?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of it has to do with mindfulness practices that I do and just trying to stay in the moment.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of mindfulness practices?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Example is um, an example um would be uh like sometimes when I'm washing the dishes, um, just really paying attention to how the water's feeling, how the soap feels, being fully present in the moment, um, or showering, just how the warm water feels, or cold water if you're into cold showers, how it feels um on your body, how conditioner feels in your hair, just being very, you know, how the sun feels on your skin when you're outside, um just certain little um acts like that uh just kind of put you in the moment.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's really calmed me down.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I also do certain, you know, breathing and muscle exercises um as a way to just kind of calm my mind down and get back to my roots and uh uh take a lot of the noise uh out of my thoughts.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's it.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it does.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I actually I absolutely love those examples.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that there is something powerful about that state of presence.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's typically out outdoors, like you say, you know, the the warmth of the sun, the sun.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's so interesting, too, that we pay so much money for all these practices and all these trainings and all these events that are supposed to calm us down when anybody could just go outside and just like lay down under a tree for five minutes and put some earplugs in or not or whatever, but find some sort of peace and just like sit there.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: And like that is like that five minutes, that moment is the you know, end result of what all these things we're paying for are is.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Life is a is a trip like that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we we almost try to find like expert answers when we have all the answers ourselves, we just need to kind of listen to our self, and that's where becoming aware is super powerful.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: What is it about the need to find other people to validate like it it doesn't even have to be something that like we know to be true?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: It'd be it could be like you Google something.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: It this is actually this was a good example.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: If you Google like exercises um online, you're gonna find you know, chest exercises, you're gonna find 10,000 pages that all tell you to do a chest press.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you continue to search after you found the first the first one, the first 10 pages all told you to do a chest press?
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Why did you continue to look for more and more answers as if the first 10 weren't the ones that were gonna change your body?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all want, you know, to hit the you know, fast track button.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and there's some secret formula that's gonna make me shredded in five days.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's out there somewhere.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know it is.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um the internet's expansive.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's a pill, man.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's gotta be a phone.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some sort of yeah, I popped a pill and you know, I don't have to I can sit back and you know eat chocolate cake and play video games all day, and uh I'll come out just shredded, vascular, you know.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I think people just they don't want to put the work in, um, simply put.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and they're hoping that there's some sort of easy way out, uh, if that makes sense.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll they'll endlessly search Google and the deep web uh to their heart's delight, um usually with no good answer other than the first page of Google searches, like you were saying.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think um is kind of on the subject of work though, like this idea of putting in hard work, I I agree with you.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that's definitely a reason.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't want to lead you to this answer.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um for me, those moments of hard work tend to be the most fulfilling in my life.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: They're the everyone says when you're having fun, time moves slow or time moves fast.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: I disagree for the majority of time.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like when I'm incredibly focused and hard and working hard, uh, I enjoy those times, like I truly enjoy those times, and time absolutely slows down.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like a day of a true day where like eight hours of real work where you're like actually tuned in and you're not scrolling through social media and working and then you work out and you know hang out with a friend or whatever.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: But like if you're truly tuned into what you're doing, I feel like days go by extremely slow.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I find that experience very fulfilling.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: What have you found over the past couple of years coming out of this darker place and into a place where you feel like you're making progress and kind of on a better track?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: What have been the moments in life or the experiences that you have found to be most fulfilling for you or most gratifying?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, first thing I definitely want to reiterate what you said.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think it runs true for everybody.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: The end goal is not what makes us the happiest.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's the you know the track to get there, um, the hard work that we put in, those everyday little wins that I think are our happiest moments, um, which plays into you know being present and loving the moment.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what's been most um gratifying for me um as of late, I think one definitely working at the car wash and just being a part of um the culture there, um working with the people and trying to make their lives um as good as possible, as well as you know, they were doing the same uh to me.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was very gratifying connecting with um, you know, uh a group of people that are just from a completely different uh world almost.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a lot of them lived in Mexico and they uh had to find their way across a border and then up to here, find a job.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of their families are still in Mexico.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's just such a different life.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm very grateful to kind of get those perspectives and realize that you know, I'm living somebody's dream.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna hit my life right now, but somebody would like to kill to be where I'm at.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've gained a lot of perspective in that sense, which has been very um humbling and has made me a lot more appreciative of the life that I have, um, regardless of all the struggles that I've gone through.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also I just think I'm very appreciative of people.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was a time where I thought I could do it all on my own.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I could fix myself, say fix myself, better myself.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I could, you know, get jobs, I could be successful, but man, uh it just runs so true.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, networking is everything.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um people are it's hard to be truly happy by yourself.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sharing experiences is just so much more fulfilling.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's so much more emotion um, you know, in the connection that you get with people.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I've really uh I'm really grateful for just having um good quality people in my life, uh, for sure.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: No, there's a lot of good stuff there, and it kind of the under our the overarching theme of that whole thing is just this idea of appreciation and gratitude, um, which I think ties into a lot of this discussion, right?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Especially this idea.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I run that line of thought extremely parallel to the idea of presence.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this idea uh that you were talking about of you know feeling the water on your hands or the the sun on your skin.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: This moment, that moment of presence really is uh is like a moment of gratitude because you're truly appreciating it.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you're not just experiencing it, you're like actually happy that it is happening.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um have there been any moments where that has kind of come together where you've had this uh, you know, this gratitude and this this presence around people you love that have stood out in in the in the past couple years?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was on a hike, maybe it was at a barbecue.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um I think the first thing that stood out to me was actually on one of uh my road trips with uh Danny, my good friend.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he's never one to really uh get super emotional.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's very just uh you know straight to the facts, um, genius, dude, genius.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's kind of hard to connect with him uh emotionally um on deep things.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um we were in Mammoth actually, um, in this cabin, and uh we had a bunch of great conversations about family, how we're feeling life.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that that really uh you know, him opening up to me and being vulnerable, and then vice versa, it really uh was a big um moment.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: Does that lead to any like for me?
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, was it after a big hike or anything like that?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, on our road trips we're we're we drive several hours to our spot, um, usually get there late night, wake up super early, and go for a long hike, and then the it repeats, rinse, and repeat.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we get we put a lot of miles on quick.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, definitely there's something to be said about being in nature, away from technology, on the road, experiencing a lot of different settings um that kind of brings you know brings us to that state of mind.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I find those trips, it's just such a great disconnect uh from the world and kind of like a a refresh button whenever I'm feeling bogged down or kind of mentally uh foggy, I guess would be a good way to put it.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great uh way to put it clear things out.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of like I mentioned earlier, I think that a lot of this ties in quite a bit of what we were saying, which is this presence isn't actually just important kind of for self-reflection.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's important for a lot of different aspects of life.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: One of them that's included definitely is um these bonding moments with people.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think it's uh obviously, you know, same thing.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you go and have a couple couple drinks with your boys, that's also a very fun bonding moment.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but there's something to be said about getting out of town or getting just like out of your normal environment with someone else and kind of finding that slower pace and finding that presence because I think you form or I think you create an atmosphere or an environment where people are a little bit more open to forming stronger connections or being open with themselves.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um I love that man.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_03: The the last question I have just for this podcast, I'm sure we'll have another, is we've talked a lot about a lot of really cool things, right?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm really excited that you have kind of progressed from this darker place you were in after after college.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of people go through those anxieties and depressions.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I think it was probably more evident for you because of your physical location.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's exciting to see you come out of that and and and and and throw yourself at work and and and build this kind of new track.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's another aspect of this conversation is this idea that you know you throw yourself at things and then stuff happens.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: You can't wait for it to be perfect, you can't wait for yourself to become that image before you go talk to a chick, right?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_03: You can't be perfect, you just go talk to her, right?
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: Or you don't you don't wait, you wouldn't ask your coach to be like, sorry, I don't want to play this game.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I'm gonna practice more.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: You throw yourself in the game, you see what happens.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then we talked about isolation and self-reflection and and how important that is, and then kind of finding that balance um of going out and doing those things, right?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: You do have to go play the game, but you can't only play games, you also have to practice, you also have to reflect and sit back and be like, all right, what did I do right?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: What did I do wrong?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then we've kind of just lastly touched on these subjects of appreciation and reflection, and not reflection enough presence.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, there's a lot of really valuable stuff there on forming connections, on gratitude.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um what would be a message that you think would want listeners to take out of this discussion?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: Something that really resonated with you that sticks in your head.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Man, um the first thing that I'm thinking of, I've done a lot of um studying of psychology and um philosophy.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: And a quote that I just I really love, um, that I've try to remind myself uh every day is that everything is perfect, but there's always room for improvement.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, life is what it is, you're in the right spot, you're where you're supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that you just stop there.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's always room for improvement, um, but love the life that you have because you're living in your your happy moments right now.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is the grind uh where you know things are most satisfying um if you're present in the moment of it.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Doug.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, thank you for having me, man.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: I want to thank Phil for that awesome conversation.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: If you enjoyed this episode or have enjoyed the podcast in the past, the greatest thing you can do is share it with a friend.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: I would really appreciate it.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: Likewise, if you enjoyed this episode, take a look at episodes number two with businesswoman, teacher, and author Ellen Leance, or number 11 with professional snowmobiler Ross Robinson.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: Phil's story of leaving college because of the anxiety that he was dealing with is pretty tough.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: Especially in a world where we are so connected, and if you remain on social media, there's almost no way to escape the constant feed of images and videos of your friends living what appears to be a fantastically happy life.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: However, I love the way he pursued his life after leaving SMU, getting rid of the things that were causing him anxiety like social media, embracing long work weeks, reflecting on the ways that weren't serving him, and driving towards the parts of his life that he felt were bettering him.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: It seems like something that has become incredibly important to him is this idea of finding balance.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think it goes hand in hand with the quote he uses at the end.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is perfect, but there is always room for improvement.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: I say that because in life, it seems that we can find gratitude and presence in any given moment, because there is so much to be thankful for.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yet likewise, in that exact same moment, there are probably a thousand things on our to-do list that could make us or the projects we're working on better.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_03: To see both sides, that there is perfection in today and right now, and still ways we can improve, I believe, is to straddle that fine line where we slow down time and live in a place that allows both joy and growth.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: I've struggled to find that recently, ineffectively pushing myself towards my to-do lists without much thought of how much I'm grateful for in this moment.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: This episode helped me take a breath, look at the cycles and habits I have fallen into from a better perspective, and slow down to see the ways I can get out of them.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe it's helped you do the same thing.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for listening.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: If you liked this episode of seeking authenticity, that's freaking awesome.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: All I want to ask of you, the listener, in return for the time and effort I put into making it, is that you take a deep breath.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean really breathe.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: Breathe so that it stretches out your shoulders and your back and your chest and pushes out your stomach.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: No more of these shallow, bullshit breaths.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_03: They're barely keeping you alive, my friend.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: And after you exhale, go out and soak up today.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because in the end, your actions and the way they interact with the world and the people around you right now are all you have in this life.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: So be authentic with them.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: Peace.