Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Kim Perell - Serial Entrepreneur & Author | From Bankruptcy to $235 Million Exit Against All Odds

Transcript

Kim Perell - Serial Entrepreneur & Author | From Bankruptcy to $235 Million Exit Against All Odds · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  I have a twin sister. He would say you're not the smart one.
• 0:02
  Honestly, my first mistake was believing that the mistake continued to just put a label like I
• 0:07
  didn't need to have. And so dropping that label was huge freedom. This is Kim Perrell from getting
• 0:13
  fired to selling her first company for over $100 million. She was told she didn't belong in tech.
• 0:19
  She proved them wrong again and again. I just been fired for my job had no cash at that point.
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  The dot com bubble had burst and everyone's like this internet. It's not going anywhere. But
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  having just one person believe in you, that belief is insane how much that can carry through. Your
• 0:35
  confidence has to be greater than anyone else's doubt in you. A self-made success. A CEO who now
• 0:41
  invests in hundreds of other founders because she remembers exactly what it felt like to be underestimated.
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  Her story isn't just about building wealth. It's about timing and trusting yourself before anyone
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  else does. Do you think that everyone could be an entrepreneur? I think you can learn to be an entrepreneur.
• 0:55
  I've learned more from my failures than my success. That's why I wrote the book. I want to share
• 0:59
  that mistakes are not the end. They're just part of the journey. I think that the faster you get
• 1:05
  over yourself and understand that you will not be successful without a great team. It doesn't matter
• 1:10
  how you define your team, but that is so key to success in any area of life.
• 1:26
  Kim, I'm excited that you're here. So you're upcoming book. Mistakes that made me a million
• 1:32
  there. I love it because it challenges conventional wisdom. It's very contrarian. And if you look at your
• 1:39
  career, so you've built nine companies, you've invested in over a hundred, but apparently even more
• 1:44
  than that, what was the aha moment when you realized that mistakes were actually accelerating and
• 1:51
  helping your success as opposed to hindering or hurting it? Oh my gosh, that's hard to say. The
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  exact moment when I thought think of one that really stands out. I think in hindering it,
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  I would say from a very young age, I have a twin sister. And I was told that she was really good
• 2:16
  at everything we did. So she was stronger, faster, smarter in school. And if you would say you're
• 2:22
  not the smart one. And honestly, my first mistake was believing that. So like a 10, if you believe
• 2:29
  and you hear something and that was looking back, it was a huge mistake because I think a lot of
• 2:35
  kids, I'm sure people listening can relate that they have a brother or sister and they're definitely
• 2:40
  not the smart one or the sporty one or whatever the one that's the talented one. And you carry that
• 2:46
  with you. And so obviously I'm a twin. So it's magnified, but the mistake continued to just
• 2:55
  kept put a label that like I didn't need to have. And so dropping that label was huge freedom.
• 3:01
  And so looking back, if I could have corrected that mistake very early on,
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  but you have to learn from that faster. So like how do you drop the label? How do you learn that you aren't
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  that you are smart or talented or gifted and not letting someone else's
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  idea of what you are like limit your actual potential? I think everybody is put into a box at some
• 3:25
  point in their life by their parents or best people or teachers, whatever. How do you get out of that
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  box? Like what's the thing that got you to realize that whatever comparison people were comparing
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  you to your sister, how did you get out of that box and realize you can do anything? You can build
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  anything. You can sort of be different than what everybody said you were. I think it's coming,
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  it's finding the confidence and the belief in yourself in whatever that is. So it's finding
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  what are you really talented at? What are you great at? Whatever that is. And I think as I started
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  to really understand my own strengths and what I was what I could be successful at gave me the
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  confidence to have more confidence in all those doubters or all those naysayers or all those dream
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  killers telling me what I should or I shouldn't or yeah self-imposing their limiting beliefs on me.
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  And I think that happens a lot of times where let's just say from an entrepreneur perspective,
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  people say you shouldn't don't do that. It's not even that you shouldn't. They're saying that
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  because they wouldn't do that. Yeah. So your first business, you started at a kitchen table at
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  23 and your grandma gave you that $10,000 loan to start it. So what gave you the confidence to
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  start that first business? What was the what was the drive that said, this is going to be a great idea.
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  I want to gamble my own family's money on this idea, which I don't even know if I recommend people
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  do that. But what was what was the thought when you were 23 and you wanted to go through this? I
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  mean a 23. Was there thought? Yeah. I had less thought than I would have now to be honest. And I
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  think that at that point, I'd just been fired for my job. I had no cash. The internet,
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  you know, at that point, the dot com bubble had burst and every internet, they thought the internet
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  was a fad. I was like, good, get a real job. This internet, it's not going anywhere. I mean,
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  true, because so many companies went bankrupt at the time. But I had seen firsthand how to build
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  an internet. I mean, I was in one, a company that raised a lot of money. Obviously, they spent
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  not well. They also, they also went for us. So that that didn't work out well. But
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  my belief in the opportunity of the internet. And it's similar to, you know, people called me,
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  you know, they were like, Kim, you're crazy. Get a real job. This is a bad idea. Look what just
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  happened. I mean, which is, which is true, right? But my grandma believed in me. And having just one
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  person believe in you, it doesn't matter. That belief is insane. How much that can carry through.
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  So if you think about as you were growing up or me, just those teachers or uncles or friends
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  that believed in you, like that goes a long way. So it's interesting because I had lots of people
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  that believed in me, but I didn't, they didn't have the experience being entrepreneurial. So they
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  believed in me. But I knew at the same time, it was hard for them to see me do things that were
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  not sort of the same as how they grew up. Right. So they wanted to, of course,
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  had great parents and great upbringing. But I think that that's also something that people
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  that somebody who is young, who is just starting out, they have to be aware of that. So somebody
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  may believe in you, but they're also in some hesitation when you try and branch out on your own
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  because they've never experienced it themselves and they just want to protect you. Yeah, they're
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  trying to protect you by telling you not to do it. Exactly. So they believe in you. But then they're
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  like, also, I don't want to see you get hurt. I don't want to see this blow up in your face,
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  this company you're starting. Right. And so yeah, and you have to be prepared to risk failure
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  or, and I had the competitive advantage, I would say that my dad is a true entrepreneur. So
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  growing up, I mean, he's faced bankruptcy more times than I can count. Right. So I was not
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  scared of failing. And so it was genetically, I did have a gift that I was like, oh, he's always
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  on the course of, yeah, he's always going to go under like, this is normal. So I had less fear.
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  I think because it was normalized for me at a very young age, watching him as I grew up. So
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  when I asked my grandma, his mom, for the 10,000, she was like, oh, your dad's been doing this
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  his whole life. So it seemed, you know, obviously it was, but having her make that bet on me
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  was the game changer. Like for me, she says, someone makes a bet on you and then you have to make a bet
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  on yourself. So it's not just about she betting on me, but she'd encourage me and gave me the
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  confidence that I could create this. If somebody doesn't have someone taking a bet on that,
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  say they don't have a supportive family. And sometimes they don't even have a supportive
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  spouse. And that's difficult. That's probably one of the most difficult hurdles to overcome.
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  What do you tell that person? Your confidence has to be greater than anyone else's doubt in you.
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  And honestly, the best bet you can make is the bet on yourself. I agree fully. That's the,
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  you know, the, just, there's different words for it, but like agency or internal
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  locus of control, believing that you have absolute, you know, authority to
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  architect your life and anything that happens to you, good or bad as you're on, there's like
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  responsibility. And I think that that idea is so strong, but it's, it's scary. It's a very
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  scary idea to think that you're responsible for everything good and bad. Well, and I mean,
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  as an entrepreneur, like you are the CEO of your own life. So you can hire people, you can
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  fire people, you can audit them out. Like if you think about that when you're creating your life,
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  that you are the CEO, maybe you're not the CEO of your company that you're living in, but of your
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  life you are and you have the executive decision making. What is the X factor that would make the
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  personality of an entrepreneur that would make them successful? Because I think that this is,
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  you know, you bet on the, bet on the jockey, like that's really what investors look for more
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  often than not because you can find all these different companies, great ideas, but if it's the
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  wrong person, it's not going to work out. So what is that personality trait that you need to see?
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  I would say, and I've invested in a lot of companies, that the one personality trait that you
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  need is resilience, perseverance, like the ability to adapt and like things are going to go wrong.
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  I mean, I have a lot of companies. Things are always going wrong. The mistakes. The mistakes.
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  Things are going to, I've made a lot of mistakes. I made so many mistakes and they've made me
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  millions of dollars, but the thing is I adapt. I'm resilient. I persevere and having that
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  just I will not quit unless there's no option. And that is what an entrepreneur needs to have is
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  that resolve to keep going after everyone else would have already given up and thrown in the towel.
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  Do you think that everyone could be an entrepreneur? I think you can learn to be an entrepreneur.
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  Explain. Well, I think there's traits that you need in order to be a successful entrepreneur. So
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  if you weren't, I mean, I was lucky because I grew up with entrepreneur parents. Yes, but I also
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  think you can learn traits of entrepreneurship that could make you an incredible entrepreneur. So
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  I think it's having a crystal clear vision. You know, it's having that passion that you'll keep
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  going when everyone else wants to leave and it's it's taking action with the late nights. Yeah,
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  like no one wants to get up early. I don't want to get up early, but I do anyway. I mean,
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  just like that is what's being a great entrepreneur and it's having these these unique traits,
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  but anyone can learn to have them. It's like, do they have the will to do what takes? So
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  yeah, it's tough. Listen, you know, a lot of what you speak about now and we were talking about
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  this before we press record, but you like talking about the mistakes. Obviously, yes, it's the name of
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  the book. That's great, but like you really like talking about the mistakes because it normalizes it.
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  And I think that an entrepreneur journey is so lonely for the majority of people and like we
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  were talking about on social media, it paints his picture of how fun and how great entrepreneurship
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  is when in reality, if you're actually building something, you know how stressful and anxiety
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  inducing and so and so quit. And I got a lawsuit over here and you know, this customer just
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  canceled and that was like 50% of our revenue. It's nonstop nonstop. So I think that
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  talking about mistakes and talking about things that don't go right is probably more powerful
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  for entrepreneurs than talking about things that do go rights. That's the reality, the reality.
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  Oh my gosh. It is. I've learned more from my failures than my successes. That's why I wrote the
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  book because I I want to share that mistakes are not the end, right? Like they're just part of
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  the journey. So you have to embrace them, talk about them. It feels good to talk about them too.
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  It does. It does. It's, you know, it's so in the moment you feel like your life's over,
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  but after you realize you look back and like that's actually a great lesson. That's always
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  what you have to do. You have to take the the failures as lessons and hopefully don't do them
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  the next time. Yeah, don't make the mistake twice. I mean, you can make the mistake. Yes, but it
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  you know, continue to make it probably is not the best the best idea. What's the story that really
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  sticks in your mind and like, wow, I learned this. I hope that no one else would ever have to go
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  through this, but it was monumental and shaping who I am. I think in building a company that big.
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  So I mean, the company that I built, you know, did over a billion dollars in annual sales. So
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  it's really the people picking the wrong people. It that mistake of picking the wrong people
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  is the worst must it cost millions. I mean, in their statistics, I'd say obviously sea levels
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  even worse. So the time it takes to hire the time it takes to read, you know, to fire the time
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  it takes to learn from that mistake and then get someone new in as an entrepreneur or a leader,
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  a business leader picking the right people is so key to your success that that team that you
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  can surround yourself with. So I've hired a lot of bad people and partnered with the wrong people.
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  I'm anything with the people. Oh, same. I've made so many most of them. They've cost me millions and
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  millions of dollars. They're made like a bad sea level. Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh, these are
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  only names, but what was the what was the worst hire you've ever hired? This head of sales. That
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  was so good at selling me, right? But then when it came down to it, it just all started to unravel.
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  And, you know, I was running a big company and I just I assumed you there, honestly, perfect
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  on paper, the POP. He was perfect. And then he was not perfect. You know what the worst part about
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  that is that if you hire like a you know, if you miss and you don't hire that a player, you hire
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  a B or C player, it's like this virus that infects your company because everybody else looks at them
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  and they're like, wow, if they get away with all this bullshit, why do I have to work hard anymore?
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  And it's just so toxic. And then admitting to yourself that you made the mistake, it's humbling.
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  So then you have to say, I made the mistake hired the wrong person took you me a while. I didn't
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  want to confront it because I don't want to confront it. It's hard to have that conversation.
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  Then you have to tell your team. It's the wrong person too. It's just it's a compounding mistake
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  that does cost over time so much money and to your point talent because A players want to play with
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  A players. So if you brought in a B player, they're going to go find an A player to work for.
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  So when you now choose to work with somebody, invest in them, hire them. What is the most useful
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  hiring advice to make sure that you don't or just people advice to make sure that you don't align
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  with the wrong person? I think doing more diligence because I trust off, you know, I trust easily.
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  So if you told me Kim, I worked for these three people. They love me. I would have taken that
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  of face value. Now I would definitely do a lot more diligence. And I'd start calling it really
• 15:04
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• 15:09
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  indeed is all you need. You wrote about sort of 10 transformative mistakes. Yes. Mistakes that
• 17:26
  really obviously had a big impact on you. I'm assuming people and hiring on persons like one of
• 17:30
  those 10. But what would be out of those 10 mistakes that you know that we're sort of top of
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  mind when you're putting this work together. What would be one mistake that is the most say
• 17:42
  universally experienced but least spoken about? So it's not going to happen to everyone but people
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  don't really have an answer for it. Well, I think the one that I think is universal is that everyone,
• 17:54
  especially entrepreneurs, things they can do it alone. I mean, I thought that too. I'm like I can
• 17:59
  search for being a twin. I got this. I can do it alone, right? And you can't. The one lesson
• 18:04
  you learn is that no one is successful alone. And so the sooner you can get over your ego or whatever
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  reason you think you have to do it alone and enlist, you know, people to help you. And I call it my
• 18:16
  people pillars, which is the people just as a house needs for walls. People need pillars to support
• 18:22
  them in order to achieve real success. It's going to be long lasting. And so I think that the faster
• 18:28
  you get over yourself and understand that you will not be successful without a great team.
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  And whether that be mentors or family and friends, it doesn't matter how you define your team.
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  But that is so key to success in any area of life. Why do people say they're self-made?
• 18:47
  I don't know. Ego, I assume. I don't really get it. I've never believed that anybody's self-made.
• 18:52
  No. And actually, everyone is getting help from someone in order to really scale. So if you
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  just want, I'd love and even listen, if you're a sole entrepreneur, awesome, you're still getting
• 19:04
  help from someone. You self-customers. Yeah, you still. Yes. You're still dealing with somebody.
• 19:10
  So to your point, yeah, I think just surrounding yourself with that all-star team makes the
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  or whether it be peers, right? Is there so many different pillars of people that it takes in order
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  to achieve greatness? What was the point when you realized that you have to ask for help? Was it
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  this is something that your dad taught you or was it something that after struggling with your
• 19:32
  burning through your grandma's 10 grand, like eventually? Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. It actually was,
• 19:37
  well, listen, everyone told me I was going to fail. So I didn't ask for help. So obviously,
• 19:42
  because no one believed in me anyway. And when I started my first company, they're like, they're
• 19:45
  not because they thought it was going to be a failure, but because they thought the internet
• 19:48
  was a bad investment that they thought. He built us billions of dollars. Maybe you probably shouldn't
• 19:54
  go and do it. So I feel that. So I just, you internalize, okay, I'm just going to do this alone.
• 20:00
  I'm going to try to prove to everyone that I could do this. But I mean, that's a fatal flaw. So
• 20:06
  when I was working 18 hour days, I was constantly getting sick. One, there's a breaking point where
• 20:12
  my husband found me just on my computer after a long night with the keyboard on my face.
• 20:19
  You have an area in a Huffington moment? I didn't hit my head. No, I just was constantly
• 20:24
  burnt out, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs do because they try to do everything alone.
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  And at that moment, you have to ask yourself, like, you're risking your health.
• 20:36
  If you try to do everything, I mean, that is what you're ultimately going to be risking. So
• 20:40
  having the courage to say, I need to ask for help. It takes courage.
• 20:46
  Yeah, it does. And I think that also, like, how do you know what you should ask for help with versus
• 20:51
  what you should figure out yourself? I ask for help on everything now. I literally, if there's
• 20:57
  something I now ask for, I don't care. I don't care if I look dumb. I don't care if someone laughs at
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  me. I don't care if it's embarrassing. It's so much easier because if I don't know what there's
• 21:07
  an expert that does. And so the sooner I can acknowledge and know that I don't know something,
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  and then find someone who does the faster I'm going to be more successful than I am.
• 21:19
  The idea of mentorship is very popular in business. But for some reason, we don't look for mentors
• 21:26
  in all the other areas of our life. And I think that that's, I think that's a, I think that's a flaw.
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  I think we should. I think that if you, if you're struggling with a relationship, find somebody
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  who has a relationship that you want. And then look at how they do it. If you're struggling to
• 21:39
  figure out wealth, money, investing, whatever, find somebody who's made some money and will tell you
• 21:44
  exactly what to do. And I've always found that, like, when you start asking around, people are so,
• 21:49
  so willing to give you advice. Yes, I could not agree more. If you want to get healthy,
• 21:55
  ask someone that's already really fit. The challenge is to make sure not to take advice from people
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  who haven't been where you want to go to your point or haven't done what you want to do.
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  You're taking advice from someone that hasn't even been there, you will not be successful.
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  You need someone that has walked and it hasn't had to be someone that's 20 years ahead.
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  How about one year ahead of where you are? Yeah, I think that's very valid. When you think about
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  taking advice from people and I'm assuming that now, when you look at a company, you're like,
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  okay, I want to find somebody who knows this industry. You know, it's funny because we're talking
• 22:32
  about some of your products and whatnot that you're building. And I'm like, do you not have a niche?
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  Do you not like focus on like, you know, CPG or cosmetics or SAT? You don't. You are industry
• 22:43
  agnostic, which is fun, but at the same time, that means you're always learning new shit all the
• 22:48
  time all the time. So I mean, you have to bring in people or else is real money at stake. If you
• 22:53
  don't know anything about like beverage and you put X amount of dollars into it, you're going to
• 22:59
  burn. Yes. Oh my gosh. When I have the most amazing mentor and advisor that's been in beverage
• 23:05
  30 years. So I don't think I need to know how to build a beverage company from the ground up.
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  I'm a business person, but I am smart enough to know what I don't know and find the people that
• 23:16
  can come help me. And I think that is so key to anyone starting new findings. I mean, I've had
• 23:22
  so many amazing mentors in my life. I feel so blessed. And again, because I asked for them. So first,
• 23:28
  you got to go out and ask, but also because I know the value that they can create and building great
• 23:35
  companies. One of the things that you mentioned was that thinking business isn't personal as a
• 23:40
  dangerous mistake. What does that mean? I mean, listen, right now we're in a disconnected world.
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  And I mean, it's nice to be in person, right? But most of, you know, time is spent disconnected.
• 23:52
  And over the course of my career, I can confidently say that business is personal. Everything's
• 23:58
  personal. I'm like, my grandma giving me a $10,000 loan. The partners that I choose to do business
• 24:04
  with, my employees, there is a personal thread that runs through every part of business. And I think
• 24:09
  believing it is not personal is a huge mistake. And I made the mistake. I was like, I'm a sole
• 24:15
  entrepreneur. I'm transactional. I'm just here to get the job done. Honestly, nobody cares. No one
• 24:21
  wants to do business with that person. It's true. And I think that I'm sure you see this now. And
• 24:27
  I haven't built a company since COVID. So I'm not hiring as many people as I would if I was
• 24:34
  building a company. But I think that post COVID we're also disconnected. We're still disconnected.
• 24:40
  And I don't know how you hire somebody virtual. I know it sounds so old school, but maybe I can
• 24:45
  maintain a relationship virtually. But to hire somebody and meet them for the first time and
• 24:52
  like build rapport with them and build trust with them virtual, I find it very hard. I find it
• 24:56
  very difficult. I don't know if you have different opinions for me. That was tough. 20 years
• 25:00
  in tech, I've had a lot of teams that were distributed. So I don't, but I feel from a cultural
• 25:05
  standpoint, I had a great amazing and an amazing acquisition and Tel Aviv. And to your point,
• 25:13
  I went there to at least meet and see them and get to know them face to face. I'm not saying you
• 25:20
  have to meet every single person in the organization, but the people that you're going to do business with
• 25:24
  and talk with like once a week or even once a month makes a difference. That was make a huge difference.
• 25:30
  Yes, I agree. So I because I love distributed aspect, but I'm very big on culture. So how do you
• 25:37
  and I like the companies that are, you know, they have quarterly meetings together. You just have
• 25:41
  to have some connection point. Because I think it's really important. If you lose the connection,
• 25:45
  you're losing the personal touch. Yes, and why people work 20 hours to try to help when some
• 25:52
  crisis happens, right? Yeah, they don't feel connected to it. Yeah, they don't care. Because it's not
• 25:57
  like, listen, when you're building anything, there will be mistakes. There will be things that don't
• 26:00
  work out. But ultimately, like, it's going to be people that fix those mistakes. Yes, it has to be
• 26:06
  people. It's not just going to be you. Mistakes are not just involving one person, right? It's a
• 26:10
  team that has to find a way to turn that mistake into a win in any circumstance. And they have
• 26:16
  to go to bat for you. I think that's anyway, that's that's one thing. It's harder though now. You
• 26:21
  have to actually make a you have to make a very big effort. So I mean, I have, you know, I talk
• 26:27
  about having tea or coffee and just having like that connection moment, just to get to know someone
• 26:33
  to spend a time together, just learning outside of business, like what is important to people.
• 26:40
  So spending that time is so critical because as we build, you're just going to become more and
• 26:45
  more fragmented and disconnected. I agree. And when you invest in entrepreneurs, do you,
• 26:51
  do you try and understand? And I don't know how all these different, I mean, like you have
• 26:56
  yourself, you have Mark Randolph, who you're on the show with, then you have like the shark tank,
• 27:00
  then you have the dragons, then you have all these different types of investors. Do you try and
• 27:05
  figure out what the personal goals of the entrepreneur are? Like, why are they building this business?
• 27:10
  Forget you. Is that important? Yeah, yeah, I'm asking. Is that important to you when you make
• 27:14
  investment decisions? I think the authenticity and the why behind why they're building something
• 27:22
  is what will push them to keep going when everything goes wrong. Yes, I agree with. So if you don't
• 27:28
  have a very strong why, a very strong vision, a very strong mission for why you're doing this,
• 27:34
  you will give up so much quicker. What was your why? What was your why? Because I know again,
• 27:40
  if you, if you go back, there's a lot of times when you probably were ready to throw in the towel and
• 27:46
  I mean, for me, honest, probably freedom. Yeah, it's a good way. Yeah, I just wanted that freedom
• 27:51
  and I think I was hell-bent on figuring out how to make it a success. I don't know,
• 27:59
  it's like, you know, it was that or go get a real job. Right. Those are the options.
• 28:06
  Not good options. I actually believe that entrepreneur entrepreneurship is actually
• 28:11
  is less risky in some cases than getting a job. And I say that because you are in complete control
• 28:20
  of your own future versus getting a job where you are not in control. And I think a lot of people
• 28:26
  saw that after COVID too. Well, there is no job security. So and I thought that to be honest,
• 28:31
  I've growing up my parents are entrepreneurs. I'm like, I'm going to get a real job at an
• 28:35
  internet company. So there was a little bit of risk to that. But at that point, I didn't think I'm
• 28:38
  getting a real job at a real company that a lot of money. And I do not want to go and be an entrepreneur.
• 28:45
  Then you learn the company goes bankrupt. I'm fired. I have no money. So that real job wasn't really
• 28:52
  a real. And so I think to your point, the best bet again, it comes back to what are you betting on?
• 28:58
  And you're in the better on the person that's leading the company that they'll get you to where you
• 29:01
  want to go. But to make millions statistically, unless you're a fortune 500 CEO, you're not making
• 29:07
  millions of dollars unless you start something yourself. Talk to me about, so there's some strategies
• 29:12
  for taking the mistakes that happen in your life and then turning them into millions. There's
• 29:17
  some very practical things. So I know that you list out 10 different mistakes. But regardless
• 29:22
  of the mistake, you have a couple different frameworks. You have a three R's framework for pivoting.
• 29:29
  You have actually the start with that one. So tell me about the three R's framework for understanding
• 29:35
  a mistake, pivoting, and then turning it into something that's useful. Well, I think number one is
• 29:40
  failing to pivot is a mistake. And I talk about this in the book and how, think of all the
• 29:47
  large companies, they've all had to pivot at one time or another, right? I mean, if you look at
• 29:53
  Twitter or YouTube or Slack, any company has already had to pivot. So I think the mistake is
• 29:59
  thinking you do not have to change. Like the market is going to move and now it's going to move
• 30:05
  faster than ever. So it's important to acknowledge the market is moving and you have to adapt and
• 30:10
  change it with it. So that's number one. I think it's really important. But how do you know that? Well,
• 30:15
  you know that because either a, your business is not succeeding. Like your sales are flat or
• 30:22
  but you don't know like when it's a case of should I push through or should I actually pivot?
• 30:28
  That's the issue. You don't know. So I think it's important to know, well, you kind of listen
• 30:32
  for some amount of time. If the business continues to decrease, you need to pivot. Like it's
• 30:37
  pivot or perish at that point because the writings on the wall, the question is, can you
• 30:42
  identify when it's time to make a change fast enough and make the change? Because too many people
• 30:47
  just run out of cash and they didn't pivot soon enough because they had to stick to the plan
• 30:51
  because they gave the board a plan. They don't want to make a change. And well, as a board member
• 30:55
  on a lot of companies, I would rather you make a change than just stick to the plan and have the
• 31:00
  company go 100% right? So please change, right? Please pivot. I think that is, you know, because you're
• 31:07
  scared to change. You're scared to say, I was wrong. And you're scared to say, maybe the market
• 31:11
  didn't turn out how I thought it was going to. Well, I think it's because like people get, listen,
• 31:18
  if you look at where companies started and we can use again, Mark Randolph who actually wrote the
• 31:24
  forward for your book, he tells the story of, I mean, if you look at how Netflix pivoted
• 31:31
  from a DVD rental business to Netflix, I mean, they pivoted a million times in between.
• 31:37
  But I think that I can't remember what his framework for pivoting or changing was, but
• 31:44
  without knowing the particulars, I know that it was a lot of not tying your identity up in the
• 31:49
  company and getting rid of the ego and getting rid of the, okay, so yeah, maybe this is what we
• 31:54
  built so far, but maybe it's not the exact thing that we need to have going into the future.
• 32:01
  And I think that that's a difficult thing, especially for first time entrepreneurs because they get
• 32:05
  so in love with their idea. And they become like their identity becomes their idea. So they're not
• 32:14
  even like people anymore. They are their business. You know what I'm saying? And then it's like hard,
• 32:20
  it's hard for them to think, what if I was wrong? Like, what if I was wrong? Like, what if I just
• 32:26
  give another six months? What if I just try and spend some more of my life savings on it?
• 32:31
  But then you have to ask yourself, do you want to be right so much or do you want to win?
• 32:38
  And I'm in the camp of, happy to pivot if I'm going to win, right? Exactly. And being open to
• 32:42
  that, but I think you're right. First time entrepreneurs definitely, and I've been there, it's just like,
• 32:48
  I actually was there when I started my first companies before social media, right? I mean, it's
• 32:54
  very early on. And I remember social media on Facebook, you'll talk about like, no, this is not
• 32:59
  I me. I'm a digital expert. I was built a great company by that point.
• 33:03
  Ah, social media is not going to be like, this is going to be big.
• 33:07
  Oh, like, obviously, then a client ended firing me as their agency. And I thought, okay,
• 33:14
  I got to pivot, obviously, because they said I don't do it in social media pivoted. And that
• 33:18
  part of my business grew to $200 million. So the pivot to embracing that change made me millions.
• 33:27
  But I was in the same camp of, no, I'm not changing. There's so it's a fad. I'm an expert.
• 33:32
  It's hard to think about it now, but back before there was a tweet or anything, this social media
• 33:38
  was not proven. So I just didn't adopt it. I know, but that was such a big mistake, right? Oh my
• 33:44
  God. That's what it is. You did okay. You did okay. Yeah. But, but I think it's also showing that if
• 33:49
  you adapt and you listen, obviously to the clients, you can make millions. You just have to be
• 33:56
  wise enough to listen and learn. How do you know how to pivot? I mean, so something's not working
• 34:02
  out. You even talk about some of the companies that you've invested in. Okay, it's not working out.
• 34:09
  Where do I go? Because now I now there's all this this this sunk cost fallacy right now. There's
• 34:15
  all this debt involved in the company. I have investor money that I put in my time, my energy,
• 34:20
  my resources. Shit. Like this is my bad. This is my idea. What do I do now when it didn't work out?
• 34:28
  Well, usually, and I've had a lot of companies, especially through COVID, I've had so many companies
• 34:33
  that had a pivot. There is a red thread of where they are to where they want to go, right? So
• 34:39
  something sometimes there's a sign of that that something is working. Maybe it's not the original
• 34:46
  idea, but some part of the business actually does show a sign of success. Obviously, then pivot
• 34:54
  to try that or try something new. I didn't know social media was going to be so big. I just tried
• 34:59
  it, right? I set up a, you know, I started doing digital advertising for social media. And so
• 35:04
  I think it's having the ability to test and be okay with it fails. I think that's probably key.
• 35:14
  Is being okay with that failure. That's always so important. It's tough. It's tough. If you don't
• 35:19
  come from that background, you try, it's so funny because it's so cliche, but you will fail.
• 35:26
  And that's actually what's going to set you up for success. I mean, I actually, so I pulled some
• 35:31
  quotes that you've set. And one of them was my mistakes weren't just stepping stones to success.
• 35:36
  They were the foundation. The failures are the answer.
• 35:42
  Yes, with every failure, you get stronger, you get smarter, you get, you adapt, you learn,
• 35:47
  and so you can move quicker. One of my other favorite quotes that you say,
• 35:52
  is fear doesn't prevent bad things from happening. It stops great things from starting.
• 35:58
  It's true, right? And I think that's the mistake. It's letting fear a failure paralyze you.
• 36:04
  So many people, and I was one like, I was one of them. I didn't want to,
• 36:11
  I was scared I was going to fail, right? Or scared it's going to work out. And that just haunts you.
• 36:15
  And I, you know, you wake up at 3 a.m. and you're thinking, oh, my company's going to go under
• 36:18
  or whatever you're thinking about. But, but then having the courage to push forward despite that.
• 36:23
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  amazing dummies. The HubSpot podcast network is a success story partner. Now, if you like success
• 37:36
  story, you're going to love other podcasts in the HubSpot podcast network. One of my personal
• 37:39
  favorites is iDigress hosted by my boy Troy Sandage. Each show is under 30 minutes. iDigress helps
• 37:44
  eliminate complexity, complications, and confusion in your business with frameworks and strategies to
• 37:49
  achieve true, scalable, and sustainable success. If you're an entrepreneur building anything,
• 37:53
  you need to listen to iDigress. This is one of the most useful business podcasts. Trust me,
• 37:57
  go do yourself a favor and listen to iDigress wherever you get your podcasts. When you think about
• 38:03
  how you've built companies now versus how you've built them in the past, what do you do differently
• 38:10
  when you're starting Juni or when you're, I mean, you know, a book is a book is a company. A book
• 38:16
  is a whole business in it of itself. But when you're starting something like this,
• 38:19
  what's the evolution of Kim? How do you how do you think through an idea that is very different
• 38:28
  from how you think how you used to think through ideas? When I started, I was just, I thought,
• 38:33
  I knew everything. Now I'm so hard enough. No, I know nothing. Yeah, that's fair. No, but having
• 38:39
  like the knowledge to know that I am not the smartest person in the room and to find the people
• 38:45
  that are experts is a game changer in turbo charging your success, right? And so I think I probably
• 38:54
  would have done a lot more on my own. Honestly, at this point, I'm looking to create great companies
• 39:01
  with people that I really love to do things with and solve problems that I really want to solve.
• 39:09
  And so if you're doing both of those things, you're creating, you know, it's like magic. Yeah.
• 39:15
  When you think about what problems are exciting for you, that obviously means that there's a
• 39:20
  financial incentive as well because that's a big enough problem to solve. So when you think about
• 39:24
  the problems that you want to take on, what is your framework or your thought process for deciding
• 39:31
  which problems are important enough, fun enough, exciting enough when you think about a drink, for
• 39:37
  example, a beverage. Well, beverage, I think is interesting. So for me in starting this, it goes
• 39:43
  back to the why, my partners and their why of having tea growing up with their families and
• 39:51
  having that moment of connection. So Juni stands for just you and I. So like me and you, just you and
• 39:56
  I are having a moment of connection together. And I think for me that why is really important. It's
• 40:03
  just like how do we get in such an insanely fast world? How do we have a moment to just be mindful
• 40:09
  and have a point of connection? And I think grounding in that and then saying, okay, how big is
• 40:15
  this market to be disrupted? Because our goal is to do tea differently. So it's a tea 2.0. It's not
• 40:22
  your grandma's tea. This tea is functional. It's flavorful. It's full of mushrooms and ashwagandha.
• 40:27
  Yeah. Delicious. Yeah. And it's a big category. I think tea is 50 billion plus function is 20
• 40:35
  billion. There's a big market opportunity. And so you have to have that in order to really be able
• 40:41
  to see how big this type of business can get. But that's cross category, right? I'm an investor in
• 40:46
  B2B SaaS. I'm an investor in Web 3. I'm an investor in beauty. You name it. They have to be grounded
• 40:51
  in a why that I can get behind. If I don't believe in what you're doing, I definitely not the right
• 40:56
  investor for you. No, and I think that like the one thing that I pulled out from that is that there
• 40:59
  is a story behind it that makes a lot of sense. Like there's a story. Like there's an emotional
• 41:04
  component to this. Oh my gosh. Of course. Yeah. When someone pitches and I get pitched 20 times
• 41:09
  a day, the if you come and you tell me your story and I can resonate with it, that will make me want
• 41:15
  to invest. Yes, I have the validate. It's a big market opportunity. But at the end of the day,
• 41:19
  I'm betting on you. Yeah. And if you if that investor of that entrepreneur has that story that's
• 41:24
  compelling enough, you know that story is going to carry them through all the bullshit that comes with
• 41:28
  building a company. I'm so curious. I'll go back to the mistakes in a second because I still
• 41:35
  want to ask you a couple more questions about that. And I want to talk about some mistakes that
• 41:40
  maybe you're not good mistakes to make. But when you think about all the different types of companies
• 41:47
  for consumer goods, that makes a ton of sense. For B2B SaaS or for I guess less
• 41:55
  sexy, fun companies, what is the story that an entrepreneur would have for that that will get you
• 42:00
  excited? I think innovation, disruption, doing things differently, taking out of you know,
• 42:07
  someone that's been doing it the same way for the last 20 years and they obviously there's an
• 42:12
  opportunity. So I think really anchoring or what's the problem we're trying to solve, right? So
• 42:17
  whether it's loyalty and engagement, whether it's predictive intelligence for retail brands,
• 42:21
  it doesn't matter, you know, it's something I really want to, it's a problem that they believe
• 42:25
  deeply. Yes, it has to be, yes, that the entrepreneur really, and they're waking up every day, so
• 42:32
  excited to solve this challenge and this problem. So just to speak about, you know, the whole theme of
• 42:38
  the book is mistakes that made me a millionaire and you list 10, but there's obviously a lot of different
• 42:44
  things that have not worked out, but learning from those lessons that it's been a positive
• 42:50
  when you think about things even in your own life, in your own businesses or even in the companies
• 42:55
  you invest in that are the biggest mistakes that people make that are not positives. Basically,
• 42:59
  the things that are, you know, stay away from these as much as possible, what would be some of those
• 43:04
  mistakes that you see repeated that can absolutely kill a company? I think, I mean, waiting to
• 43:10
  feel ready for anything, I think everyone says their thing, I'm going to make the perfect
• 43:14
  side, I'm going to make the perfect deck, the perfect social media, like, forget perfect, just move,
• 43:20
  action, you know, fast, bad decisions, better than a so good one, you got to move, and I think
• 43:26
  right now moving quicker is so important. So trying to get 100%, I see so many amazing, talented
• 43:32
  people that just sit on the sidelines trying to perfect something that actually, once you get to
• 43:37
  market, the market's going to dictate if they like it or not, doesn't even matter. So I would say
• 43:41
  that's universally, everyone's waiting to feel ready and you're never going to be there.
• 43:47
  I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs inflate numbers and inflate progress, and I think that that's
• 43:53
  the number one way to kill trust. I think that every investor, and I know a lot of them,
• 43:58
  yourself included, every investor basically will say the same thing, but it's some version of,
• 44:04
  I can always work with the truth. We can always work with the truth. It doesn't matter how bad
• 44:09
  the truth is, but you can work with the truth. And I think that that's something that
• 44:14
  if you feel imposter syndrome and you're scared about communicating with your investors,
• 44:19
  you're scared about what the reaction is going to be when you're not hitting your milestones,
• 44:23
  the truth will set you free, and the truth will help you figure out how to overcome that,
• 44:27
  because they're on the same team as you. Yes, they want you to be successful. Oh my gosh,
• 44:32
  I get more calls with Kim, can you talk? Yeah. That means like something bad to come make,
• 44:37
  but I'm a great investor because I've been there. Like I understand it's hard. And so my job
• 44:43
  as an investor is to help you get a great return. So asking your investors about how do they
• 44:50
  help you? Right? Trying to do it again, trying to do it alone, never going to happen. If you
• 44:54
  if you embellish what's happening, yes, I definitely would not invest in you, but I can tell
• 44:58
  that with you said me a pitch deck, you're five, you hockey stick growth, you make a ton of
• 45:03
  it's not happening. I already can tell you like I see it all the time. So it's
• 45:06
  upsetting me that is, uh, yeah, I'm your five, you're probably the head of the park. No, you don't,
• 45:12
  like, okay, it's funny. Um, if you wanted to, I want to just ask you a couple of rapid
• 45:19
  fire to close this out, but if you if you know, people just want to take one lesson away from this
• 45:25
  book, the most important lesson, you're given a couple different ideas, but think of just one,
• 45:31
  that's the only lesson they can take from it. What would that lesson be and why?
• 45:35
  Start before you're ready. I love it. That's so important. That's so, so, so important. When you
• 45:41
  think about the success you've had, what should someone's motivation be? Not financial success,
• 45:47
  but what should someone's motivation be when they're building a company? I think comes back to your
• 45:51
  why? Why are you? Yeah, it comes back to your why. Why are you building it? Because that's the only
• 45:56
  thing that will pull you through building a company is so hard. Mm-hmm. It is so tough and it's
• 46:02
  so exciting at the same time. So like the thrill of that roller coaster, but if you don't know why
• 46:07
  you're doing it, you will not be successful. What's the biggest misconception that somebody that
• 46:13
  people have about entrepreneurship? That there's an overnight success and there's no overnight
• 46:18
  success and don't listen to anything you see on social media, even though it's on social media
• 46:24
  right now. I get it. You know, I think people look at that, but they don't see the struggles behind
• 46:29
  what's actually happening in the real life. I tell that to people I see all the time, like don't,
• 46:35
  you have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. If you're going to give a view of that,
• 46:39
  people will feel a lot better. And that's why I want to write about mistakes because I want people
• 46:43
  to share like mistakes need a makeover. Let's talk about the mistakes. Let's share that because
• 46:49
  that will help us learn from each other's mistakes. That will help us get better faster. And I think
• 46:55
  that shame that's tied to mistakes, that has to change. I agree fully. I fully, that's why I'm
• 47:01
  happy you put this out there and I'm happy you're talking about mistakes because it's something
• 47:04
  that I'm trying to include more in my content. Somebody asked me about, I even told you before
• 47:10
  we recorded some of the things that have not worked out and someone I don't, I kind of just like
• 47:14
  gloss over them usually, but someone I was speaking and someone asked me about, you know, what has
• 47:19
  been your biggest mistake. And I went in, like I didn't name names. I don't think that's good,
• 47:24
  but I went into like everything that didn't work out in my life and they were like, damn, okay,
• 47:30
  you have to like trauma dump on us. Yeah, therapeutic. Yeah, right. No, but it's, but then they're like,
• 47:35
  oh, that's a good lesson. All these lessons about partnership, there's lesson about
• 47:38
  opportunity, there's lesson about maybe building something that's not in your core competency.
• 47:42
  There's all these lessons you can pull from that. There's lessons about being okay quitting when
• 47:46
  it's not working out. I have a question. Yes, mistake number nine, winning too soon. That's all,
• 47:52
  I mean, but that, all these things, it's so personal because what's too soon? I don't know,
• 47:57
  it depends on the person, right? You know, you've built incredible companies, you've built an
• 48:03
  incredible brand. What would be the highest personal price that you've paid for all this,
• 48:09
  the people don't know that you've paid? Time probably. I don't think people see the amount of
• 48:16
  late nights, early mornings, time I missed out with, you know, friends, parties. I mean, I,
• 48:22
  if you know me and you went back for a long time, you would know that I just worked.
• 48:29
  Like, that was my, that was my focus. Now, I have a family, so it's different, I think,
• 48:34
  before I didn't, so I could do that, but I definitely missed out on things because I was always
• 48:40
  working. I think that you, you said something that's very important though. Like, there was a season
• 48:46
  of your life when you're okay with work, but then you have to understand there's a point where
• 48:51
  work isn't everything too. Yeah, yeah. And I think, and I talk about that in the book too, and
• 48:57
  staying too long, you know, you stay places too long. I think that's such a disservice. You
• 49:01
  stay in relationships too long. You stay in things too long because it's comfortable. Whatever,
• 49:07
  whatever reason you're doing that, but that comes at a price and that price is time. Time you could
• 49:13
  be doing something else, could be sharing your life with someone else, could be creating something
• 49:17
  else. Yeah, that's very powerful. I think that everybody, when they're living through any of these
• 49:23
  mistakes, they know that they're mistakes. And I think that normalizing the conversation gives
• 49:27
  them the ability to say, okay, you know what? When it's time to take action, take action, and move on
• 49:34
  or pivot or do something different or, or, or end it or whatever it is. But the point is,
• 49:38
  I think too many people default to, I'm living in a mistake and I'm, I feel like there's
• 49:43
  something wrong with me. So I'm not going to quit the business or pivot or quit the relationship.
• 49:48
  I'm not going to do that because then that's admitting that I screwed up. This book is saying that
• 49:53
  listen, there's times where you should persevere and you figure it out, but there's also times
• 49:57
  where it's very okay to end that part of your life. Yes, and just admit the mistakes, right? I
• 50:03
  think to your point, people, they're shaming them. If we let that shame go and just talk about it
• 50:10
  as a normal part of just the path to success, which it is, everyone's going to make mistakes. So let's
• 50:16
  embrace them, learn from them, and then move on. I love it. Where can people, I mean, the book
• 50:22
  will be everywhere you can get booked. So Amazon and everywhere else. Where should people
• 50:25
  follow you and connect with you? Yeah, please, Kimperel.com. You can go to my site. We've got
• 50:30
  amazing some free downloads for a millionaire mindset and all the tricks that I use in order to
• 50:35
  make sure I maximize my success. And on social media, LinkedIn, obviously, I love big business
• 50:41
  gal. So LinkedIn is your go-to. I love LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn too, but yes. Yes, I'm a business
• 50:48
  person, right? LinkedIn, Instagram, probably any social media platform at Kimperel. Okay, perfect.
• 50:54
  If you, out of all the things you've learned in your life, say you're only allowed is last thing.
• 50:59
  You're only allowed to pass on one lesson to your kids. What would be that lesson? It doesn't
• 51:04
  have to be business. It could be, but what would be that lesson and why? Kindness. It would just be
• 51:09
  being kind, regardless of circumstance, regardless of anything going on, just being kind. I think
• 51:14
  it's like the golden rule, right? If you are kind and I think that you assume the best in people,
• 51:20
  that's how I like to live life. I think that life will work out more often than it doesn't.
• 51:26
  100%. Yes, I've got four little leaders I'm creating. So they just grow up to be kind. I will
• 51:32
  feel very, very grateful.