Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Ep. 52: Your Story Could Be Your Biggest Business Advantage - Sean Mabry (Ghostwriter)

Transcript

Ep. 52: Your Story Could Be Your Biggest Business Advantage - Sean Mabry (Ghostwriter) · Glovisor Podcast

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  Speaker 1: Your voice is your advantage. Learn how to turn it
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  Speaker 1: into a book and elevate your authority and expand your impact.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Global Advisor Podcast, where we explore business growth, communication,
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  Speaker 1: and personal development through real conversations with people that make
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  Speaker 1: an impact. Today's guest helps experts become authors whose books
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  Speaker 1: do more than just sit on a shelf. They become
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  Speaker 1: powerful tools for building authority, creating deeper connections with readers,
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  Speaker 1: and generating new business opportunities. Through strategic storytelling, messaging, and
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  Speaker 1: book development, he helps entrepreneurs uncover the story that sets
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  Speaker 1: them apart and transforms readers into loyal clients and advocates.
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  Speaker 1: Glowvisor welcomes Sean Mabry.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe. Great to be here.
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  Speaker 2: Looking forward to the conversation. Sean, please share with us
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  Speaker 2: a little bit more of what you do.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I am an author coach and ghostwriter, which
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  Speaker 3: means one way or another, I help people get their
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  Speaker 3: books done, whether they're writing the book themselves with my guidance,
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  Speaker 3: or they want to just go ahead and hire me
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  Speaker 3: to write the whole thing for them.
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  Speaker 2: That sounds like that's a lot. So what inspired you
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  Speaker 2: to pursue this path?
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  Speaker 3: So as far as writing in general, I've been writing
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  Speaker 3: since age 12. I actually had a visit from Destiny,
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  Speaker 3: if you can believe it. Our music teacher asked us
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  Speaker 3: to go home and write these short stories, and Mine
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  Speaker 3: was about destiny visiting this shy young boy and telling
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  Speaker 3: him he'd go on to do great things. And my
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  Speaker 3: music teacher, a man in his forties was so moved
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  Speaker 3: by the story that he read it aloud for the
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  Speaker 3: rest of class. And I could see even in his face,
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  Speaker 3: how much it touched his heart. And from that point forward,
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  Speaker 3: it was like, okay, well, this is clearly the thing
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  Speaker 3: I'm supposed to do. Uh, and as far as I
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  Speaker 3: got into ghostwriting in particular, my first ghostwriting client reached
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  Speaker 3: out to me at a time when I did not
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  Speaker 3: offer ghostwriting. and said, Hey, you know, so-and-so says you're
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  Speaker 3: the guy that wrote my book. And because I didn't
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  Speaker 3: offer it at the time I was doing copywriting, right.
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  Speaker 3: I was doing a very different sort of work, but, uh,
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  Speaker 3: I said, look, I'll have the conversation, right. I'm happy
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  Speaker 3: to get to know you. And I ultimately tried to
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  Speaker 3: refer him out to another ghostwriter that I trust. And
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  Speaker 3: he still came back and said, no, I think you're
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  Speaker 3: the guy. So I'm like, okay, let's, let's try it
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  Speaker 3: as an experiment. And then next thing you know, here
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  Speaker 3: we are.
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  Speaker 2: What's the difference between being a ghostwriter, a copywriter? What
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  Speaker 2: are the differences between those two worlds?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so traditionally, a copywriter is someone who writes sales copies.
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  Speaker 3: So you think of anything from promotional emails to Facebook
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  Speaker 3: ads to even traditional TV commercials. That's copywriting. Ghostwriters typically
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  Speaker 3: write books in the most traditional sense. Um, but lately
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  Speaker 3: we've also seen that expand to include, uh, like there's
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  Speaker 3: a lot of people on goes on a LinkedIn now, um,
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  Speaker 3: positioning themselves as LinkedIn ghostwriters. So essentially they will write
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  Speaker 3: your LinkedIn posts, um, in the voice of the CEO, right.
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  Speaker 3: Or in the voice of whoever else, um, uh, they
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  Speaker 3: want to represent. And that last shift is kind of
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  Speaker 3: interesting to me because when I first got, got into
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  Speaker 3: the industry, like that, that's more what we would call
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  Speaker 3: content writing. And there still are content writers out there too, but.
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  Speaker 3: I think ultimately, the key distinction is that when somebody
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  Speaker 3: is getting into ghostwriting, it's extremely important to capture the
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  Speaker 3: voice of the client, way more so than in a
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  Speaker 3: copywriting position. Like in copywriting, yes, it does matter to
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  Speaker 3: some clients to have their voice represented. But more often
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  Speaker 3: than not, they just care about whether the copy converts
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  Speaker 3: the sale, right? If it happens to sound like the
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  Speaker 3: CEO or not is kind of secondary. That's not secondary
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  Speaker 3: if you're going to be a ghostwriter. That's the number
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  Speaker 3: one thing. It has to sound like the client.
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  Speaker 2: One of our listeners wanted to work with you. What
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  Speaker 2: would that journey look like?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so typically the first thing I do with people
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  Speaker 3: is take them through a story mapping session, which is
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  Speaker 3: where we lay out all the different topics they want
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  Speaker 3: to talk about, all the different stories they have, all
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  Speaker 3: the lessons they want to pass on. And from there,
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  Speaker 3: we decide what goes in book number one or the
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  Speaker 3: next book, right? Because a lot of times, very rarely
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  Speaker 3: do I get people that don't have an idea of
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  Speaker 3: what they want to talk about. The problem is they
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  Speaker 3: have millions of ideas on what they want to talk about.
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  Speaker 3: And the important thing in writing a book is that
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  Speaker 3: we have to narrow that down. We have to start
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  Speaker 3: making decisions around who is this book for? What is
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  Speaker 3: this book about? And what can be saved for a
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  Speaker 3: future book, right? Because anyone who's going to have one
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  Speaker 3: book should probably have multiple. And so... that's a whole
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  Speaker 3: idea of like mapping your stick. I call it mapping
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  Speaker 3: your story territory because it's like all these things are
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  Speaker 3: yours to share. Like you absolutely have a claim to them,
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  Speaker 3: but that doesn't mean they need to go right in
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  Speaker 3: this book. Right. And it doesn't mean that they, that
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  Speaker 3: there are other options for how we could share and
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  Speaker 3: present them. Right. Um, some things actually work better as
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  Speaker 3: a standalone piece of content or an article or a
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  Speaker 3: YouTube video or whatever else. Um, and that can still
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  Speaker 3: feed into the book, but it doesn't have to go
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  Speaker 3: into the book itself. So the first things first is
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  Speaker 3: just figuring out what even goes in the book. And
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  Speaker 3: then we start mapping out the outline and the structure
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  Speaker 3: from there.
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  Speaker 2: I think one of the things that confuses me the
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  Speaker 2: most about the relationship of a client with a ghostwriter
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  Speaker 2: is how much do I have to tell my ghostwriter
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  Speaker 2: in order to fill in a whole book? Because if
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  Speaker 2: I fell as a little boy and that changed my
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  Speaker 2: life forever, how do you fill those two points in
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  Speaker 2: my life?
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  Speaker 3: How does that work? That's a perfect example because I
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  Speaker 3: get clients that do have an early childhood story like
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  Speaker 3: that that's really important to them and they want to
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  Speaker 3: include it in the book, which, yeah, of course we're
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  Speaker 3: going to include it if that's what the client wants.
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  Speaker 3: But they have other clients that really don't want to
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  Speaker 3: get into their personal backstory. And the thing is, you
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  Speaker 3: don't have to, right? One of the first things I
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  Speaker 3: teach clients is the distinction between a biography and a memoir.
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  Speaker 3: Because a biography... in the traditional sense, is meant to
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  Speaker 3: cover your entire life, right? Or autobiography, for that matter.
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  Speaker 3: Autobiography just means you're the one writing it yourself. Typically,
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  Speaker 3: a biography is meant to be this huge, expansive, like,
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  Speaker 3: we're going to cover every last detail of your life. Now,
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  Speaker 3: a memoir, which is what I'm writing right now, it's
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  Speaker 3: what I... I always encourage my clients to have an
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  Speaker 3: element of memoir to the book, even if it's more
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  Speaker 3: built on a framework or a methodology. You can still
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  Speaker 3: put in bits of storytelling, but the thing with a memoir...
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  Speaker 3: is that a memoir is whatever frame you want to set, right?
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  Speaker 3: You can write a memoir about a single year of
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  Speaker 3: your life if it was a really eventful year and
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  Speaker 3: you have a lot to say, right? Like there's no
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  Speaker 3: requirement to put it back on the timeline or share
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  Speaker 3: things you don't really feel like sharing because you get
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  Speaker 3: to decide this is our topic and then everything else
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  Speaker 3: falls within that. And I think for business books especially, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: probably for most authors, it doesn't make sense to go
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  Speaker 3: all the way back to when you're six years old,
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  Speaker 3: unless there's something about that story that ties into the
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  Speaker 3: stuff you want to teach today, right? So that's the
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  Speaker 3: first thing, like anytime you, whatever story you want to
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  Speaker 3: bring in, I'm always going to bring it back to, okay,
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  Speaker 3: how does that support the core idea of the book
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  Speaker 3: that we've agreed on? And if it does, we include it,
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  Speaker 3: and if not, it goes somewhere else.
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  Speaker 2: So what is the average time of a person who
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  Speaker 2: contacts you today to strategize a book to getting published?
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  Speaker 2: Is that months, years?
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  Speaker 3: It ultimately depends on what your definition of published is.
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  Speaker 3: Because if you are thinking of, like, I want to be...
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  Speaker 3: I mean, Amazon bestseller is one thing because there's kind
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  Speaker 3: of ways to game that system. But let's say you
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  Speaker 3: want to be a New York Times bestseller. You have
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  Speaker 3: to go through traditional publishing. For the most part, there's very...
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  Speaker 3: some very, very rare exceptions to that. If you want
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  Speaker 3: to be on like the USA Today or Wall Street
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  Speaker 3: Journal bestseller list, those lists that are like a few
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  Speaker 3: notches below New York Times, those are definitely achievable even
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  Speaker 3: without a traditional publisher. But you got to be ready
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  Speaker 3: for a proper launch, right? And that does not happen overnight.
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  Speaker 3: So realistically, that's about at minimum an 18-month window just
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  Speaker 3: for the publishing side. So then you add in the
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  Speaker 3: writing of the book. Now that's one area where I
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  Speaker 3: am very, very fast. Like I've gotten a client's book
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  Speaker 3: done in as little as 30 days. Now to your
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  Speaker 3: question earlier about like how much, like how far, how
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  Speaker 3: much do you need to give me? That client had
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  Speaker 3: a lot of existing content through podcast appearances and all
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  Speaker 3: the other things. So for one thing, I was able
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  Speaker 3: to bring a lot of that into the book and
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  Speaker 3: adjust it slightly to fit the format of the book.
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  Speaker 3: And then I used our live interview time to fill
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  Speaker 3: in the gaps of what I couldn't find online already.
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  Speaker 3: So especially if somebody already has a public presence and
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  Speaker 3: has already put out a lot of content on their own,
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  Speaker 3: that's one of the first things I look at is like,
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  Speaker 3: what can I do to repurpose, right? Or at least
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  Speaker 3: build scaffolding from their existing content so that I'm not
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  Speaker 3: making them repeat themselves. It's like, you've already done the
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  Speaker 3: work to go appear on these podcasts and get these interviews.
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  Speaker 3: I don't want you to tell me that story again.
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  Speaker 3: I want you to tell me the story that hasn't
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  Speaker 3: appeared anywhere else. So we can put that in the book. Um, uh,
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  Speaker 3: but either way, I, I, I like to keep it
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  Speaker 3: to 90 days to get a first full draft done. Um,
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  Speaker 3: and then usually for editing might take, you know, another
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  Speaker 3: month to three months. So all told, if you're looking
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  Speaker 3: for like a bestseller list outside of Amazon, I would
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  Speaker 3: look at maybe a year and a half to two
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  Speaker 3: years total. Now, if you just want something that you
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  Speaker 3: can get a few print copies whipped up and bring
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  Speaker 3: with you to conferences and hand out directly, that's a
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  Speaker 3: way shorter timeline. That can be within a month of
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  Speaker 3: getting the full manuscript done. It really just depends on
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  Speaker 3: what your goals are for publication.
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  Speaker 2: Got it. So that brings me to who is your
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  Speaker 2: ideal client that works with you?
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  Speaker 3: My ideal client is an expert who has a lot
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  Speaker 3: of different topics that they want to talk about. So
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  Speaker 3: usually they have their main thing that they're, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the business they're currently running, the thing they're known for
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  Speaker 3: to a small group, right? But they know that they
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  Speaker 3: have a much bigger message and they want to be
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  Speaker 3: able to build a bigger authority platform than just that.
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  Speaker 3: And so... By the time someone comes to me, it's like, well,
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  Speaker 3: I've worked in three different industries. I have this like
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  Speaker 3: wild winding personal story of how I got here. How
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  Speaker 3: the heck do I put all that in one book, right?
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  Speaker 3: How do I like untangle this huge mass of ideas
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  Speaker 3: I have in a way that is accessible? And that's
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  Speaker 3: my bread and butter. I love working with those people
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  Speaker 3: because I'm a big believer that the best experts are
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  Speaker 3: the ones that have walked many different paths. and have
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  Speaker 3: taken an unusual path of energy because that's what gives
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  Speaker 3: them that unique perspective. My job is to make sure
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  Speaker 3: that that unique perspective gets from up here onto the page.
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  Speaker 2: Now, getting to the business side of this, who owns
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  Speaker 2: the rights to these books in a ghostwriting agreement?
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  Speaker 3: The short answer is the client, 100%. There are very, like,
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  Speaker 3: I don't ever ask for royalties or anything like that
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  Speaker 3: as part of my contracts. There are some ghostwriters usually
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  Speaker 3: attached to a traditional publisher that will get a little
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  Speaker 3: cut royalties. But generally speaking, the only way you would
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  Speaker 3: ever give up your rights as the author is if
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  Speaker 3: you go through a traditional publisher, because that's just how
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  Speaker 3: traditional publishing works. And then there are certain what are
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: called hybrid publishers that ask for royalties, usually much less
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  Speaker 3: than the traditional publishers do, partially because you are paying
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  Speaker 3: them up front, which you don't do for a traditional publisher.
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  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, like in my mind,
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  Speaker 3: like I, you know, I'm getting paid for the service, right?
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  Speaker 3: Like you pay me to write the book. Um, then
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  Speaker 3: I hand it off to you and it's yours. Like,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm happy to, to, to, you know, support
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  Speaker 3: in other ways ongoing if it makes sense, but I, I,
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  Speaker 3: I make my money off of the service. I'm not
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  Speaker 3: trying to, to take over the author's rights in any way.
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  Speaker 2: Now, once someone works with you, do you have access
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  Speaker 2: to other publishers that you can guide? declines to?
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  Speaker 3: I do. In fact, that's actually been a huge part
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  Speaker 3: of my work lately is building a sort of Rolodex
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  Speaker 3: of publishing partners, different levels of investment, I did for
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  Speaker 3: different specialties, because obviously, there are publishers that specialize in
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  Speaker 3: certain topics and certain types of authors. So my goal
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  Speaker 3: is that whatever, whatever level of budget you have, whatever
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  Speaker 3: type of book you're trying to write, I can point
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  Speaker 3: you to the right publisher for it, because especially these days,
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  Speaker 3: it's not one size fits all. There are many different
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  Speaker 3: ways to be published. And for each of my authors,
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  Speaker 3: I want to make sure that they're getting a publisher
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  Speaker 3: that is ready to walk the path that makes sense
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  Speaker 3: for them. And part of that means getting very clear
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  Speaker 3: on what does it mean to be published for you, right?
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  Speaker 3: What is your definition of a successful publishing journey? Because
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  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, there are many different
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  Speaker 3: ways to define that. And it comes back to reverse engineering,
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  Speaker 3: like I want to achieve XYZ great, then either these
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  Speaker 3: are the parts are going to need to set up
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  Speaker 3: yourself or this is the right publishing partner for that
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  Speaker 3: because they they offer XYZ.
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  Speaker 2: Now, can you share an author success story that illustrates
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  Speaker 2: the transformation that your work creates?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, the I mean, the one I mentioned earlier, the
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  Speaker 3: client who got that book done in just 30 days,
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  Speaker 3: Before I came along, they had that version of that
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  Speaker 3: book sitting on their hard drive for like over a year.
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  Speaker 3: And they had already hired another ghostwriter, they'd already like
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: messed around with AI, they'd already like done all these
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: different things, try to get it out. And it just
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  Speaker 3: wasn't clicking. And part of it is like, yeah, he's
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: a very busy guy, right? He's running multiple businesses, he
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: does not have a lot of time to sit around
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: and experiment. But also, he didn't have that clear through
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  Speaker 3: line of this is what the book is about. And
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: that's part of why it was hard to get the
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: thing done, right? It's like, if you are unclear about
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: your purpose for the book, it's very hard to make
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: consistent progress on it. And on top of that, he actually,
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  Speaker 3: in our first conversation, he said, I've got three different
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  Speaker 3: books I want to write. And I want to start
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  Speaker 3: with this one over here. And I was like, no, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 3: That's book number two. Because the, and this is a
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: classic mistake I see a lot of authors is that
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  Speaker 3: He wanted to go really narrow and tactical, like go here,
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  Speaker 3: do this, do that. And I helped him understand, for
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: your first book, if you're not already an established author,
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: you don't want that. You want the book that's going
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: to establish you as a character in the mind of
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: the market so that they want to hear more from
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: you and dig into the tactics and get down in
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: the weeds with you. If you try to jump into
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: that right away, it's tough because... Really, the only people
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: that are going to read that are people that are
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: already attached to you and your expertise, which means you're
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: now just speaking to your existing market. You're not really
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: branching into new markets in the way that you would
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: hope the book would, right? Like you said back in
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: your intro, my job is to write the book that
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: opens new opportunities for you. So in a sense, it
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  Speaker 3: needs to be the book that can introduce you to
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  Speaker 3: new people. It has to make people understand, oh, this
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  Speaker 3: is who Joe is, right? Not just what does Joe know,
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  Speaker 3: but who is he? Like, why should I care? What's
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: compelling about him? What's different about him? All that needs
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  Speaker 3: to go into book one. And lucky for us, he
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  Speaker 3: already had some version of that in that list of three.
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  Speaker 3: And I was like, let's move that one first. Start there.
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  Speaker 3: And then, boom, here we go. That book is published.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: And you can grab it on Amazon right now.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: If listeners remember only one thing from today's conversation, what
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: do you hope that message is?
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Your story should sound like you.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: That's great advice. Short, sweet, and to the point. Now,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: where can our audience connect with you and learn more
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: about your work and continue this conversation?
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the best way to connect with me is
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: on my Substack, which I'm happy to link below. I'm
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: also pretty active on LinkedIn and Facebook, if you prefer.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: And then one thing I want to offer your audience
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: is a custom GPT that I put together called the
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Book Clarity Engine. Remember, I say about book clarity, it's
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: very important. And Part of why I love offering this
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: to people as a free gift is that I use
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: this thing on myself when I realize it was time
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: for me to write a book. Once I realize, again,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: I'm serious about ghostwriting and I lock in and do
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: this thing, but I didn't have a book out under
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: my own name. This is the tool I put myself
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: through and it helped me realize, wait a second, this
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: is the most important story I have to tell. And
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: that is now the book I'm working on as we speak.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: And I'm already working on my second draft, actually. So
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: the way to get that is to go to mabrygift.com
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: forward slash clarity. And then that will take you to
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: an opt-in page, enter your email. That'll give you instructions
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: for how to access the thing. And by the end
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: of that conversation, you also have an invite to come
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: and chat with me to look over your results.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Sean, thank you so much for joining us today. And
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: we really appreciate your time and all of the value
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: you've shared today. Yeah.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe. It's been great.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks everyone for listening. Did this episode inspire you? Share
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: it with someone who needs it. And don't forget to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: follow the Globalizer podcast for more conversations that make an impact.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Till the next time.