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Firsts and Worsts in Superhero Cinema - The Meteor Man (1993) vs. The Shadow (1994) · Meet Your Double Feature | Movie Reviews & Forgotten Films

• 0:10
  Tonight on Meet Your Double Feature, mild mannered Jefferson
• 0:13
  Reed uses his new found superpowers to save his
• 0:16
  neighborhood from an evil gang. It's not a bird or a plane.
• 0:21
  It's the Meteor Man. Then Lamont Cranston uses his
• 0:25
  psychic abilities to protect New York City from a descendant of
• 0:28
  Genghis Khan, A Dark Knight Rises in the shadow.
• 0:33
  It's an obscure superhero double feature, and it starts right
• 0:38
  now. Hello and welcome to Meet Your
• 0:46
  Double Feature, a double-blind movie review podcast.
• 0:49
  My name is Thomas, joined as always by my brother Frank.
• 0:52
  Frank, how's it going? It's going, it's going good.
• 0:54
  I'm very, very excited to be here as per huge.
• 0:58
  As per Huge, he has said that every time the day he doesn't is
• 1:01
  the day we end the show. But you didn't know.
• 1:04
  That I didn't know that either. So you better keep that
• 1:08
  excitement up or else people are going to be real disappointed in
• 1:11
  you. Oh.
• 1:12
  Gosh, OK, no pressure. No pressure anyway, welcome back
• 1:15
  to the show. This is the second episode of
• 1:17
  our new season on Meet and Double Feature, looking at
• 1:20
  forgotten superhero movies. The way our show works, in case
• 1:23
  you've never tuned in before, is that Frank and I have each
• 1:26
  selected a movie for the other to watch and review on the show
• 1:29
  that we have never seen previously.
• 1:30
  Neither of us has seen even the two movies that we recommended
• 1:33
  to each other. So we're going to find out in
• 1:34
  real time what the other person thought of the movie that was
• 1:37
  picked for them, and then whoever gave the better blind
• 1:39
  recommendation will be declared the winner for that episode.
• 1:42
  So Frank, we're two episodes in. I have already forgotten who won
• 1:46
  last week's episode. Let's just assume it was me.
• 1:49
  That's usually. I mean mathematically that would
• 1:52
  be an A bad assumption because I have won more episodes overall,
• 1:55
  but that could change theoretically.
• 1:59
  Theoretically, yeah. Theoretically, if you started
• 2:02
  performing better, it would go a different way.
• 2:07
  Anyway, Frank, today I'm going to be kicking us off by talking
• 2:10
  about the movie you asked me to watch at the end of our last
• 2:12
  episode, 1993's Meteor Man. Can you refresh the folks at
• 2:17
  home why you asked me to watch Meteor Man?
• 2:19
  Well, I thought it fit the the theme of the season pretty well.
• 2:23
  It's AI believe it's a superhero comedy film and in early it's
• 2:30
  the 90s I believe is that one was released because we can't
• 2:33
  seem to get away from 90s. Films, it's kind of our quickly
• 2:40
  becoming our niche. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:43
  But also because I've worked with the director before.
• 2:47
  I worked on a documentary film that he made while I was still
• 2:51
  in film school and he seemed like a cool guy and he seemed
• 2:55
  like an underappreciated filmmaker so I was curious as to
• 3:01
  his if this movie was any good. Yeah, So that would be in this
• 3:05
  case for Meteor Man. It's writer, director, star
• 3:09
  Robert Townsend. You worked on.
• 3:12
  I think you've told me it was a documentary that he made in the
• 3:14
  20 tens about a previous narrative film that he had made,
• 3:19
  right, called the The Five Heartbeats.
• 3:21
  Yeah, The Five. Heartbeats is the original film
• 3:23
  which is sort of a a cult classic film in its own way.
• 3:26
  And then he was making a documentary titled The Making of
• 3:30
  the Five Heartbeats and and that was what I worked on with him.
• 3:33
  Oh, interesting. So I assume you were like the
• 3:34
  star or like the. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:37
  They were like, so you weren't in, you had nothing to do with
• 3:39
  the original film. What can you tell us about what
• 3:41
  that was like? And I was like, I got to, I got
• 3:44
  to go. I'm sorry.
• 3:45
  This has been a mistake. I'm I'm late for math school and
• 3:49
  I'm like, that's not you're in film school.
• 3:52
  That's not a class. You're going the wrong way.
• 3:54
  That's not an exit. Just walk through like a prop
• 3:58
  door and fall down. Yeah, well, that's interesting.
• 4:02
  I like that connection. I feel like we we don't do
• 4:05
  enough to highlight the fact that you've actually worked on
• 4:07
  films yourself and have produced a film yourself.
• 4:10
  Like the insight from that is fascinating to me.
• 4:13
  And so I I think it's funny getting to watch something from
• 4:15
  someone that you have actually collaborated with, even in a
• 4:18
  small way, working as like a student assistant.
• 4:21
  So that's neat. Yeah, it's cool.
• 4:23
  I mean, I haven't seen the film myself.
• 4:25
  I I probably should at some point, but I'm sure you will
• 4:27
  tell me what a great, great pick it was for the show.
• 4:31
  So OK, Meteor Man is a movie full of caveats for me.
• 4:35
  First off, we're talking about forgotten movies.
• 4:38
  This one is borderline impossible to find nowadays.
• 4:42
  Like it's not. As of recording early 2026, it
• 4:47
  is not available on any streaming platform.
• 4:50
  I went to my local library and they didn't have a copy.
• 4:53
  I had to order a DVD from like a reseller to watch this movie.
• 4:58
  Yeah, you're a big library guy. The library let you down this
• 5:00
  time, unfortunately. The library did let me down.
• 5:02
  Usually they have obscure DVDs like that just 'cause they enter
• 5:06
  circulation and never leave. But something about Meteor Man's
• 5:10
  distribution or what? Like, I don't know who has the
• 5:13
  rights to it, if it's one of those deals where like somebody
• 5:15
  owns it and they just don't care enough to do anything with it.
• 5:19
  But genuinely hard movie to find.
• 5:21
  I think if you were a listener, your best bet would be to get a
• 5:24
  physical copy or do that thing people do when movies aren't
• 5:26
  available on the Internet. And what was that?
• 5:28
  Tell us in explicit detail what that is.
• 5:31
  OK, so you got to download a thing and then you got to go to
• 5:34
  a place and then you get infected with malware.
• 5:39
  I I think actually to touch on that point, not the malware you,
• 5:42
  you can have fun with that, but the.
• 5:44
  Thinking of malware, I found that as well.
• 5:46
  Yeah, I invented that. No, the, I think Meteor Man is
• 5:52
  owned by Marvel. Now.
• 5:55
  I, I, I think, I, I'm not sure the sequence of events that led
• 5:58
  to that, but I think technically that property is, is owned by
• 6:04
  Marvel, which would, I guess be owned by Disney.
• 6:08
  Oh, so it should be on Disney Plus?
• 6:10
  Should be on Disney plus. They may, they may not know that
• 6:12
  they own it or they you. Might have to alert Disney and
• 6:17
  be like, did you know that you own Meteor Man?
• 6:20
  And they're like, who are you? Like that's not a door.
• 6:23
  Again, you need to leave. Sorry, I just math, math school.
• 6:31
  So that's interesting. Very difficult movie to find,
• 6:33
  Very in keeping with our theme about forgotten films, forgotten
• 6:36
  superhero movie specifically, which for us is basically
• 6:39
  anything that's predates the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which
• 6:43
  I feel like what we've seen, even just looking at a few of
• 6:45
  these so far, people just made superhero movies and then kind
• 6:49
  of made fun of the fact that they existed at the same time.
• 6:51
  There was such a like inauthenticity to a lot of them
• 6:54
  where it was like, isn't this all kind of dumb?
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  And Meteor Man gets around that a bit by making the movie
• 7:00
  explicitly a comedy. And so it doesn't really feel as
• 7:03
  out of place as in like Steel, which we talked about last time,
• 7:07
  where they're like, hey, this is Steel, he's a superhero.
• 7:09
  Superheroes are dumb. Yeah, yeah.
• 7:13
  Which was I just again, always an odd approach to the whole
• 7:17
  thing. It's like, who you making this
• 7:19
  for? Then with the maybe this one
• 7:21
  less so because it is a comedy, but like with some of those
• 7:23
  other ones that like seem to hate their own source material,
• 7:27
  like like superheroes are for nerds, which of course now
• 7:31
  everyone's a nerd. I guess that's just the the cool
• 7:34
  thing to be like. Pretty much.
• 7:36
  I mean, nerds are really good consumers.
• 7:38
  Because they will. That's true.
• 7:40
  They will stick with properties no matter how the way people
• 7:43
  stick with a sports team that ever wins.
• 7:45
  Where it's like sure the last 15 Superman movies have been
• 7:48
  varying degrees of bad but they got a new QB this could be their
• 7:52
  year. It's Supergirl.
• 7:55
  Supergirl's the new QB, and it was good.
• 7:57
  Supergirl is the new QB. We're going to have to do a
• 7:59
  review of the new Supergirl movie, given that you're
• 8:02
  currently, I think, the biggest stand of the 80s Supergirl
• 8:04
  movie. Big time.
• 8:06
  Yeah, no, yeah, I'm looking forward to that one actually.
• 8:08
  That'll be, that'll be interesting.
• 8:09
  That'll be maybe some good side content for us.
• 8:12
  Yeah, I think we'll have to touch back on that one as a as a
• 8:14
  comparison between these older films in the in the state of
• 8:16
  superhero Movies Now. But Meteor Man is a weird one in
• 8:21
  the sense where like it's kind of a revolutionary movie.
• 8:24
  Not revolutionary. It's a very notable movie in the
• 8:27
  history of superhero media because it holds the honor of
• 8:31
  being essentially the first widely distributed studio backed
• 8:35
  film about a black superhero. Which is kind of mind boggling
• 8:38
  that it took until, was it, 1993 for one of those to get made and
• 8:42
  even since then there's been like half a dozen and that's it.
• 8:46
  Yeah, yeah, very few, very few. I mean, I think I was trying to
• 8:51
  look this up because the there's like a asterisk next to it where
• 8:54
  technically there was a movie in the 70s called like a Bar the
• 8:59
  Black Superman that had a guy with superpowers.
• 9:01
  But it was a much smaller production that not a lot of
• 9:04
  people have seen. But Meteor Man was like a
• 9:06
  theatrically released film that people saw that had a black
• 9:09
  superhero in it. And I do feel like even in
• 9:11
  watching the movie, that's kind of part of its whole premise.
• 9:15
  That maybe wouldn't make as much sense now where it it.
• 9:19
  Nowadays it's not uncommon to have like a black superhero.
• 9:22
  But in the 90s that was almost like one of the jokes of the
• 9:24
  movie. It's like, Can you imagine a
• 9:26
  superhero trying to fight actual crime, like inner city crime
• 9:31
  that real people are dealing with?
• 9:33
  Ohio, Is it so? Is that what Meteor Man does?
• 9:35
  Is that part of the story of the movie?
• 9:37
  It is. The premise for Meteor Man is
• 9:40
  pretty simple. It's a very like straightforward
• 9:42
  movie in a way, although it does have some very odd comedic
• 9:45
  quirks that I'll get into. The main character, played by
• 9:49
  Robert Townsend, is named Jefferson Reed.
• 9:53
  And he is like a meek, cowardly teacher living in a suburb of
• 9:59
  Washington, DC And his characterization at the
• 10:01
  beginning is that his local neighborhood is overrun with
• 10:05
  gang activity, but he is too afraid to stand up to anybody.
• 10:09
  Even is like, encouraging the students at the school he
• 10:12
  teaches at to like, not stand up against bullies, don't pick
• 10:16
  fights, don't get in anybody's way.
• 10:18
  And then he accidentally ends up inheriting superpowers and has
• 10:22
  to deal with the natural consequence of like, now that
• 10:25
  you have the power to do something about this, are you
• 10:28
  going to be brave enough to do anything about it?
• 10:31
  OK, well, that's, I mean, that's a solid pitch for the narrative.
• 10:36
  It's decent, it's pretty straightforward.
• 10:39
  The execution is less so. I think the weirdest things to
• 10:42
  be about Meteor Man are his powers because they seem just
• 10:47
  thought up at random. I mean he does have like a Cape
• 10:51
  and an outfit, which is sort of a joke in the movies that his
• 10:53
  mom makes him a superhero outfit.
• 10:55
  But he has basically every superpower that Superman himself
• 10:59
  has, but also a number of very specific ones.
• 11:03
  Like the first thing that he learns once he gets struck by a
• 11:06
  falling comet and turns into Meteor Man is that if he touches
• 11:10
  a book, he can absorb all of the information from the book in an
• 11:15
  instant, but he only holds on to that knowledge for 30 seconds.
• 11:19
  Whoa. Right, like.
• 11:22
  It's a silly power. It's so specific.
• 11:25
  It's like super strength, ability to fly, temporary book
• 11:28
  learning what's like that feels like the beginning of a much
• 11:33
  more specific set of rules about how this superhero story works,
• 11:37
  where it's like, well, you can fight crime but only in small
• 11:39
  bursts. But instead it's like now he has
• 11:42
  like all the usual generic powers but also this one really
• 11:46
  specific power that comes into play like twice in the whole
• 11:49
  movie and could easily have been cut out completely.
• 11:52
  I I think that was kind of a thing with old Superman comics
• 11:55
  though, if I'm not mistaken, where like Superman would
• 11:58
  sometimes just have whatever powers the writers needed him to
• 12:02
  have for that particular story. That's true.
• 12:05
  So he would just have nonsense powers sometimes.
• 12:09
  It it is sort of a plot device thing.
• 12:10
  I think Meteor man also at one point grows a community garden
• 12:15
  with his bare hands just because he has superpowers.
• 12:18
  He just puts his hands onto some soil and like a giant oversized
• 12:22
  garden springs up overnight. So occasionally he does like
• 12:25
  plot relevant stuff like that. But for his first introduction
• 12:29
  to be, oh, he can absorb book knowledge temporarily, It feels
• 12:34
  like you're learning about a superhero called like, Bookman.
• 12:37
  And then it's like, Nah, not really.
• 12:38
  He's mostly just Superman. Yeah, yeah, that's the first
• 12:44
  thing he does. Before he even shows super
• 12:46
  strength or anything. He does the book thing.
• 12:48
  Correct. His first, his order of
• 12:49
  operations here is he essentially is running away from
• 12:53
  some local thugs and he gets scared and hides in like a
• 12:58
  dumpster until they go away. And then when he comes out of
• 13:01
  the dumpster, there's this mysterious green meteor falling
• 13:04
  out of the sky and he gets struck with a piece of it.
• 13:07
  And then when he wakes up in the hospital, he touches a book on
• 13:10
  accident. And that's how he figures out
• 13:11
  that he can absorb knowledge temporarily.
• 13:13
  And then the next thing he learns is still not super
• 13:16
  strength. It's that he can understand his
• 13:18
  dog and talk to his dog. So.
• 13:24
  And is that funny? Did this make you laugh?
• 13:27
  OK, I'm trying to get the premise out of the way here so I
• 13:30
  can get into the beat of this, which is that nothing in Meteor
• 13:32
  Man is funny and it's very rarely even trying to be funny,
• 13:36
  which I find very strange. Interesting.
• 13:40
  Like, you know how some comedies people describe as like a mile a
• 13:44
  minute with their jokes where they're trying to mine humor out
• 13:47
  of every possible situation? Yeah, like I was, I was thinking
• 13:50
  of like the recent Naked Gun movie as a comparison point.
• 13:55
  Where it's like. That's just all.
• 13:58
  Constant jokes. Everything is strung together by
• 14:00
  laughs just to keep everything light.
• 14:02
  Meteor Man is like that scene in The Office where Michael Scott
• 14:07
  is like, oh, my brain's moving a mile an hour.
• 14:10
  It's like, yeah, that's a, that's pretty slow, actually.
• 14:13
  Like, that's how Meteor Man feels with its comedy, where
• 14:16
  something silly will happen or somebody will make a joke, and
• 14:20
  then we'll go for multiple scenes without anything
• 14:22
  particularly funny happening aside from a couple of like
• 14:25
  visual gags that are persistent throughout the movie.
• 14:29
  It just doesn't really read as like a comedy in a strong sense.
• 14:33
  A lot of it is actually kind of melodramatic.
• 14:36
  So it gets really lost for me tonally in terms of like, who is
• 14:39
  this movie for and why was it made?
• 14:43
  Yeah. Well, so maybe it's like maybe
• 14:46
  it was intended to just be more a traditional superhero film
• 14:49
  with some laughs in it, almost like what Marvel is now.
• 14:53
  Like Marvel skewed really heavily into the comedy side of
• 14:57
  things where some of their movies almost feel like comedies
• 14:59
  first and then superhero movies. Where is this?
• 15:03
  Was maybe trying to be a superhero movie with comedic
• 15:06
  elements. It's hard to tell because I
• 15:09
  don't know a lot about the production itself, but it comes
• 15:12
  across to me in viewing the movie like something that was
• 15:15
  trying to be one thing and just was not fully realized.
• 15:19
  Because sometimes the jokes in the movie are really goofy.
• 15:23
  Like the villains throughout the story is a is like a local gang
• 15:28
  called the Golden Lords. And the gimmick with the Golden
• 15:31
  Lords is that they all have this like bleached blonde, like high
• 15:35
  top hair that looks really silly.
• 15:37
  And one of the jokes in the movie, because much like in
• 15:39
  Steel, part of the problem is that like the local kids and
• 15:43
  teens are getting roped into this gang violence.
• 15:46
  The golden Lords consists of a bunch of adult men wearing suits
• 15:48
  with their blonde high tops. But then they also have like
• 15:51
  teenage golden Lords and actual like baby golden Lords.
• 15:56
  There's like 5 year olds robbing people on the street dressed the
• 15:59
  same as the adult bad guys. Wait, all is part of one group?
• 16:03
  Or they're these are like 3 different groups.
• 16:06
  They're all the same, like they have a pipeline.
• 16:08
  Like that's one of the movie's jokes.
• 16:10
  As like you, you join the gang as like a literal baby and then
• 16:13
  just age up into the different ranks.
• 16:15
  But that's so cartoonish. It's like Looney Tunes level
• 16:19
  stuff. But the movie talks about it in
• 16:22
  this kind of like sedate way where nothing is moving with
• 16:26
  like the speed or the, I don't know, the intensity of like a
• 16:30
  goofy comedy. Like he'll just be like, oh,
• 16:32
  yeah, baby criminals. And then like, it's like, that's
• 16:36
  funny. We should talk about that.
• 16:37
  And it's like, Nah, we're no, I'm going to talk about
• 16:40
  something else. Yeah, Yeah.
• 16:42
  Well, I mean, comedy is harder to do than drama.
• 16:45
  Like, drama's easy comparatively because with comedy, something
• 16:50
  like that, like, again, when you describe it, it's like, yeah,
• 16:52
  that's a funny idea, but then you have to execute it in a
• 16:55
  funny way in the film, too. You have to show it to the
• 16:59
  audience in a funny way. You have to, like, punch it up,
• 17:02
  basically. You can't just like say
• 17:04
  something kind of humorous and then expect the audience to just
• 17:07
  go along with that. That's sort of what I mean.
• 17:09
  Like nothing that they introduce as a funny quirk, a lot of it is
• 17:13
  reoccurring but doesn't have a satisfying pay off.
• 17:15
  Like part of the story is that Meteor Man is trying to stop the
• 17:19
  children, like the ones at the school he teaches at from like
• 17:21
  joining these gangs. But there's like half a dozen
• 17:24
  scenes where just like the baby criminals are just there and
• 17:27
  they don't really do any additional jokes on top of it.
• 17:30
  They're just part of the scenery is that half of the bad guys are
• 17:33
  children and there's no like easy layup jokes that they stack
• 17:39
  on top of that. Like somebody just had that one
• 17:41
  idea. And then every subsequent scene
• 17:43
  they're like, well, I guess we still need these baby criminals
• 17:45
  to be here, but for no particular reason.
• 17:48
  Like how is that not a one off joke where you like whip pan
• 17:51
  over to like the Golden Lord's daycare and it's just a bunch of
• 17:54
  baby criminals and then you whip back and you never mention it
• 17:56
  again. Like that's a joke in a movie.
• 17:58
  Whereas this just feels like an odd thing tethered onto the
• 18:03
  story that never goes anywhere. Right.
• 18:05
  It's it's less of a joke and more of just the lore of the
• 18:07
  film at that point. Like, yeah, no, there's babies.
• 18:10
  That's just how we do things around here.
• 18:13
  There is like a small payoff for one of the kids that Meteor Man
• 18:17
  helps earlier in the movie does turn against the gangs.
• 18:20
  Like he refuses to give him up early in the movie when they're
• 18:23
  chasing him down when he's in the dumpster, like the little
• 18:25
  kid finds him, but like doesn't say that he's in there.
• 18:28
  And then at the end that kid helps him again.
• 18:30
  But like, you could have had those two children be characters
• 18:35
  as opposed to just 50 baby criminals who just kind of hang
• 18:39
  out with the regular ones. It's just very like poorly
• 18:41
  thought out in terms of the editing and like how they
• 18:44
  interact with these things they've set up.
• 18:46
  Because the fact that you have something that absurd in the
• 18:48
  movie should suggest that everything is like a goofy
• 18:52
  Looney Tunes esque bit. And there's just very few of
• 18:54
  those. A lot of it is like, very sad
• 18:56
  and kind of serious and about how people are genuinely afraid
• 19:00
  to stand up to criminals in their neighborhoods because it
• 19:03
  risks real violence that harms their communities and their
• 19:06
  families. And it's like, oh, this is kind
• 19:08
  of too much of A bummer to also have baby criminals.
• 19:13
  Yeah, it seems like maybe it was just an attempt to lighten the
• 19:16
  mood, but then it it almost undercuts the messaging of the
• 19:21
  film in a way. Yeah.
• 19:23
  Do the do the kids have lines? Do they do like, do the the
• 19:27
  young kid characters in this group have like, like jokes or
• 19:32
  they're just more of just a presence in the film?
• 19:34
  They're just they're the only notable escalation of that joke
• 19:39
  is towards the end of the movie, there's a big fight happening in
• 19:42
  like the there's just this main like neighborhood St. set that
• 19:45
  they use a lot throughout the movie because it's where Meteor
• 19:47
  Man's apartment is and they have a big fight outside of there.
• 19:50
  And at one point, while Meteor Man's beating everybody up, they
• 19:53
  try to send in this kid that they just call Kung Fu master
• 19:57
  Larry, who's just like a 12 year old who can do karate.
• 19:59
  It's. A funny name.
• 20:01
  It is a funny name. We're like, and it's a good
• 20:04
  example of what we expect the movie to do throughout its
• 20:06
  runtime of like, OK, there's kids in the gang.
• 20:08
  Imagine if instead of being like, oh, now we're going to
• 20:11
  send in our heavy. We send in a child and they're
• 20:13
  like, go get him Kung Fu Master Larry.
• 20:15
  And then he just runs at Meteor Man and gets like blown away
• 20:17
  with his Superman ice breath and then runs off and there's like
• 20:21
  some funny ADR where like you hear the other little kids being
• 20:24
  like, where you going Kung Fu Master Larry, like I.
• 20:27
  Like that they say his full name.
• 20:29
  That's what I mean. Like, that's a funny escalation
• 20:32
  of that joke of like, not only do we have kids in the gang, but
• 20:35
  it's not just a hierarchy of age.
• 20:38
  It's like, no one of these kids is better than a lot of the rest
• 20:41
  of the criminals, but it just doesn't go anywhere.
• 20:44
  Like theoretically you should have had a kid on Meteor Man's
• 20:48
  side the whole time who could have had a smaller conflict with
• 20:51
  like a kid criminal, you know what I mean?
• 20:52
  Like a like a shrunk it down version of the same conflict but
• 20:54
  with two children. That could have worked as a way
• 20:57
  to tie that together better. Oh like if Meter Man had like a
• 21:00
  sidekick like a Robin with him. Yeah, But anyway, we're spending
• 21:04
  a lot of time on that. But it's the most representative
• 21:06
  example I have where like the movie thinks it's being funny,
• 21:09
  but then just kind of forgets to be funny.
• 21:12
  I think the other example is that this movie has like a
• 21:14
  surprisingly stacked cast. It's like a lot of famous black
• 21:18
  actors from the 90s and a lot of famous musicians too.
• 21:21
  Like just in terms of musical cameos.
• 21:23
  We have acting appearances from like Naughty By Nature and
• 21:27
  Cypress Hill and Biz Marquis, actual popular musicians from
• 21:31
  around that time. And then in the actor side, we
• 21:34
  have like James Earl Jones is in the movie, but his character,
• 21:38
  right? This is one year before Lion
• 21:40
  King comes out and we have Mufasa in this movie playing
• 21:44
  like a stupid, completely redundant side character whose
• 21:48
  only joke in the whole movie is that he wears wigs.
• 21:52
  Oh man, I I have a very similar comparison in the movie that I
• 21:56
  watched so. We'll do.
• 21:57
  That later, yeah, it's unfortunate, but yeah, we'll
• 22:00
  yeah, not the wigs thing, but we'll get to.
• 22:01
  It not the wigs, but so James Earl Jones, you see him early
• 22:04
  on. He lives in the same building as
• 22:08
  Jefferson as Meteor Man, and he's his neighbor.
• 22:10
  And the only two things you know about him is that he loves his
• 22:13
  jazz records and he's putting on obviously fake toupees and
• 22:17
  insisting that they look good. And so throughout the movie,
• 22:20
  he's constantly wearing different, like dumb looking
• 22:22
  toupees. And then he has no real
• 22:26
  interactions with Meteor Mantra. Like the entire middle of the
• 22:29
  story. He's just always around.
• 22:30
  He dresses kind of silly too. He's supposed to be like Comic
• 22:33
  Relief. And I guess the joke is mostly
• 22:35
  just that James Earl Jones is the one doing it.
• 22:37
  But then he even has like a dramatic turn where after Meteor
• 22:41
  Man has been fighting crime for a while, it ends up with a lot
• 22:44
  of retaliation against the community.
• 22:46
  And so these same people who were like pushing Jefferson to
• 22:49
  protect them turn their backs on him because they're like,
• 22:51
  actually, you're making things worse.
• 22:53
  And the he has this whole scene where like James Earl Jones,
• 22:56
  even the comedy guy is like petitioning to kick Jefferson
• 22:59
  out of their neighborhood in hopes that the gangs will leave
• 23:01
  them alone. And it's this kind of like sad
• 23:04
  bottom of the second act thing. So that in the end he changes
• 23:07
  his mind and there's a scene of him like taking the toupee off
• 23:10
  and like crying, 'cause he betrayed his friend.
• 23:13
  And I'm like, this is the most unearned thing in any movie.
• 23:18
  This is ridiculous. Yeah, Yeah.
• 23:22
  OK. So we have some interesting
• 23:24
  tonal swings in this, is there? OK, massive tonal swings in this
• 23:29
  movie is there. What's the overarching story
• 23:33
  though? Like is there a main antagonist
• 23:37
  or goal that Meteor Man has throughout the film?
• 23:41
  Great question. It's fairly straightforward.
• 23:43
  The Golden Lords are the main antagonists.
• 23:45
  They're just the local drug dealers, and they're a gang.
• 23:48
  And so there's this escalating conflict between them and Meteor
• 23:51
  Man. And even though through most of
• 23:53
  the movie he's able to fight them off, he realizes that over
• 23:57
  time he's actually losing his superpowers.
• 23:59
  So after a while, the bad guys become aware of this too, and
• 24:02
  things have reached a point where they're like, meteor Man's
• 24:04
  like, Oh no, I can't even defend myself anymore.
• 24:07
  And so his moral arc at the end is like, even without these
• 24:10
  powers, I have to be ready to risk something in order to
• 24:15
  confront these evils in my community.
• 24:18
  So in the third act, he goes out to fight the bad guy with no
• 24:21
  powers at all. And his bravery in doing so
• 24:24
  inspires the rest of the community to come help him.
• 24:27
  So at the end, like the townspeople of that neighborhood
• 24:30
  like run out with pots and pans and try to fight the gangs
• 24:33
  alongside him because he encouraged them.
• 24:36
  Like you can't just ignore these problems and then also besmirch.
• 24:42
  He he has a weird reference where he talks about like their
• 24:44
  reaction to policing, which feels like a heavy thing to
• 24:47
  bring up about how like a lot of crime ridden black communities
• 24:50
  have understandable issues with the police.
• 24:52
  But he kind of makes a comparison where it's like you
• 24:54
  can't just badmouth them, but then also do nothing for
• 24:57
  yourself to like fix these problems.
• 25:00
  I'm like, OK, again, this is kind of heavy stuff for a movie
• 25:03
  with baby baby gangs. Well, I was going to say, I
• 25:08
  actually like that. Like on paper, the way that you
• 25:11
  described that conflict and the fact that he's losing his
• 25:15
  powers, it's kind of like the Green Ranger from Power Rangers.
• 25:19
  Nice Power Rangers mentioned, add it to the point.
• 25:25
  Some similar storyline there, but that's actually fun.
• 25:28
  That's actually something I would I would like to see from a
• 25:32
  like dramatic superhero from or just a traditional superhero
• 25:35
  film. And it sounds like with these
• 25:38
  massive tonal swings as you put it, that it almost, it almost
• 25:43
  seems like they were trying to package a real message into this
• 25:47
  film, like with comedy, though, to make it more palatable.
• 25:52
  Definitely, it feels like an attempt to get everybody in the
• 25:56
  room in order to deliver a message that the that Townsend
• 25:59
  himself probably felt strongly about.
• 26:02
  But it's so lost in its execution that by the end, like,
• 26:05
  both sides feel harmed by the other.
• 26:08
  Like the movie lands as being spectacularly unfunny because
• 26:13
  it's not inviting you to make light of any of this stuff
• 26:17
  enough. Sometimes it does.
• 26:19
  It's like, everything here looks really dumb.
• 26:21
  But then it's also like, no, you should care, though.
• 26:23
  This is a real problem. And it's like, OK, if that's the
• 26:25
  case, then why is there a gag at the end of the movie where he
• 26:29
  touches a book called, like, Bruce Lee's Guide to Martial
• 26:31
  Arts and then starts doing the, like, like Kung Fu stuff?
• 26:35
  Yes, yes. Why is that in there at the end
• 26:37
  of the movie? That's about this like real
• 26:39
  problem. It, it, it almost seems like if
• 26:42
  you were expected to take like one of those like parody films,
• 26:45
  like Scary Movie, like if you were expected to take the
• 26:48
  narrative of that film seriously, like, and be invested
• 26:52
  in that while they were still doing all the, they're like
• 26:54
  really crass, like flat humor. That's what I mean.
• 26:59
  Like if you made the whole thing a straight up satire and leaned
• 27:03
  all of your comedy on that idea, that could be a serviceable
• 27:07
  comedy. I don't think it would be very
• 27:09
  memorable. But like you were talking about,
• 27:12
  the dramatic implications of the story are much more interesting
• 27:15
  than the comedic ones. So the whole time I was like,
• 27:17
  I'd rather you just ditch the comedy and make it sort of like
• 27:21
  a undertone of humor about how the whole situation is a bit
• 27:24
  silly. And instead when the comedy does
• 27:26
  come into the movie, it's just like a freight train where it's
• 27:29
  like, OK, what is this now? Like at 1.2 in that same scene
• 27:33
  at the end, the bad guy from the Golden Lords also touches a
• 27:36
  piece of the meteor. So they end up with the same
• 27:38
  powers because it's a superhero movie.
• 27:40
  And then they both touch a book that says like fashion model
• 27:45
  walk offs like that. It turns into like the scene
• 27:47
  from Zoolander where they're like strutting around as if it's
• 27:50
  a fashion runway. And it's like this is dumb put
• 27:53
  this away like this shouldn't make it into the edit.
• 27:57
  Well, yeah, because I mean, contextually that makes sense in
• 28:00
  Zoolander. That's they are models in that
• 28:04
  movie. Why would these two, just
• 28:05
  because they touched a book about fashion and modeling,
• 28:09
  start having a? That's what I mean.
• 28:11
  That's, that's the cartoon logic of it.
• 28:13
  Like it's not. If you're not taking it
• 28:15
  seriously, then you can do whatever you want and it's just
• 28:18
  funny. Like if you want to make a
• 28:19
  comedy, Meteor Man should have like uppercutted one of those
• 28:22
  baby criminals to the moon. You know what?
• 28:24
  I. Mean yeah, you should have
• 28:27
  treated them equally as adversaries as.
• 28:30
  He should have at some point in the movie, like given up on
• 28:33
  helping the kids. He should have just been like
• 28:35
  you're all. Worthless that would have been
• 28:39
  that would have been dark, actually, but.
• 28:41
  Like in a comedic sense where like he like maybe at some point
• 28:44
  in the middle he's just like, ah, forget it, you're committing
• 28:46
  crimes. I don't care.
• 28:48
  I don't know, it feels like 2 Lego sets crammed together that
• 28:52
  are not trying to make the same thing and it results in like, I
• 28:55
  don't care what strength you have on either side of this
• 28:57
  coin, you didn't make a movie, you made like a weird story that
• 29:02
  has no impact at all. Yeah, yeah.
• 29:06
  It's, it's, it's also kind of reminding me of like those SNL
• 29:11
  films where they would take like a like sketch characters and try
• 29:14
  and make that into like a feature length film.
• 29:16
  And it just like almost never worked because it just seems
• 29:18
  like they just didn't have enough material to turn that
• 29:22
  into a narrative that audiences would care about, which is kind
• 29:26
  of the difficulty of just making comedies in general.
• 29:29
  But especially with that almost limitation of like overusing
• 29:32
  this character that's like kind of just like a A1 note punchline
• 29:39
  and then having to make that into a whole movie.
• 29:41
  Yeah, pretty much. It feels like a script that
• 29:45
  maybe in its first iteration made more sense, but by the time
• 29:48
  the movie's over, you're like, why did they even follow through
• 29:51
  with this idea? It felt like they didn't have a
• 29:53
  whole movie. They didn't even have like fully
• 29:55
  formed ideas for who the supporting cast was going to be.
• 29:58
  It was just a one off idea that for the time, again, the joke
• 30:04
  was kind of like, why don't we get a black superhero?
• 30:06
  And it's like, I can understand that being a worthwhile thing
• 30:09
  when there had never previously been one.
• 30:11
  It's like this is important representation.
• 30:13
  And it actually does seem to hold some responsibility for
• 30:16
  like, why don't we talk about real crime that superheroes
• 30:20
  theoretically would be trying to fix that.
• 30:22
  Then it just gets totally lost. Like I can't think of almost
• 30:24
  anything else to say about it because that's such such an
• 30:27
  overarching problem with the movie.
• 30:28
  Oh, that's. Oh, that's a shame.
• 30:31
  I mean, I guess my questions would be then, like, how do you
• 30:36
  feel about like Robert Townsend is the lead?
• 30:39
  Like is he giving a performance that that leans either way?
• 30:43
  Is it giving like a dramatic performance at times?
• 30:46
  Is he funny, like, or at least humorous?
• 30:49
  Great question. It is funny watching this coming
• 30:52
  off of Steele because Steele was Shaquille O'Neal as an actor
• 30:57
  when he's not an actor by trade and he did a terrible job in the
• 30:59
  movie, tried its best to hide it.
• 31:01
  Robert Townsend is an actor and he's definitely believable as
• 31:05
  this character. Like, I feel like he played it
• 31:07
  the way he intended and he's a perfectly competent performer.
• 31:11
  But again, it's like the choices at a top level are so bizarre
• 31:15
  because one of the other problems the movie has,
• 31:17
  regardless of like the drama versus comedy balancing, is that
• 31:20
  everything about it is really slow and sedate, both in terms
• 31:25
  of the actual pacing of the movie and like the line reading
• 31:29
  in the movie. There's so many pieces of
• 31:31
  dialogue that are delivered in this kind of like, slow,
• 31:35
  effortful pattern that it makes you really legitimately tired
• 31:39
  watching the movie. And I don't understand why any
• 31:41
  of that happened. Wait, like elaborate on that?
• 31:44
  Like tired watching the movie because it's so dull in its
• 31:47
  delivery. It's very droll in how they they
• 31:51
  perform it. Like there's a better example
• 31:54
  towards the end where in addition to the golden Lords,
• 31:56
  there's also just kind of these like vague higher up business
• 32:00
  people, criminals. There's this like old white man
• 32:02
  who shows up towards the end and is trying to escalate things
• 32:04
  with Meteor Man. And he has one line of dialogue
• 32:07
  that on on the on the page is you've really been giving me a
• 32:10
  lot of grief because he's been having trouble with Meteor man
• 32:13
  throughout the whole story. And this is their first time
• 32:15
  like really interacting. He's like, you've been giving me
• 32:17
  a lot of grief, Meteor man. But the actual line read from
• 32:19
  the actor is like, you've been giving me a lot of grief.
• 32:24
  And it's like not delivered with emphasis.
• 32:26
  It's just spoken really slowly. I mean, great line read by you,
• 32:32
  of course. Thank you.
• 32:33
  We appreciate that. The way you delivered it, it
• 32:37
  almost sounds like it. It could have been intended to
• 32:40
  be intimidating, you know, like he was.
• 32:43
  Like, you give me a lot of grief, Meteor Man.
• 32:45
  Like the arch, kind of. But it's not.
• 32:48
  It's not Arch, it's not camp, it's just slow.
• 32:52
  Like it's an anomaly to me. I can't think of another movie
• 32:56
  that does dialogue this way. And even Townsend himself, I
• 33:00
  think because the character at the beginning is supposed to be
• 33:02
  a very mild mannered and like nervous guy.
• 33:04
  He tried to hold on to that even after becoming Meteor Man.
• 33:08
  But he never gets out of that gear where he just speaks in
• 33:11
  this kind of like quiet, unenthusiastic tone, no matter
• 33:15
  how serious or exciting things are getting.
• 33:17
  And again, it's not played as a joke.
• 33:19
  Like, it would be kind of funny if they were like, oh, he has
• 33:21
  the powers of Superman, but he's really uncharismatic, so nobody
• 33:23
  likes him or like something like that.
• 33:25
  And there's a couple side characters who are, like, giving
• 33:27
  it more pizzazz. But like, the main guy in the
• 33:29
  movie just doesn't have any emphasis behind any of his
• 33:34
  acting. And I find it really strange
• 33:35
  because I'm sure he could if he wanted to.
• 33:38
  Yeah, yeah. I, I, I'm going to say I'm not
• 33:42
  going to try and make too many assumptions, especially because
• 33:46
  I haven't seen the film, but it's a good reason.
• 33:48
  It's a good reason to not. But but based on everything I'm
• 33:52
  hearing, it almost sounds like Robert Townsend himself was
• 33:57
  maybe wearing too many hats in this production.
• 34:00
  Probably. Because I believe he was writer,
• 34:04
  director, star, producer on the movie.
• 34:09
  And a lot of this is coming off as I want, I don't want to say
• 34:13
  amateur filmmaking, but maybe just like first time, you know,
• 34:19
  like directing, first time producing, like, because a lot
• 34:25
  of this stuff just seems like, like I mentioned earlier, it's
• 34:28
  like with comedy scripts, it's it's talked about where it's
• 34:30
  like some sometimes like a script is written and then like
• 34:34
  a team of comedy writers will come in to quote UN quote, punch
• 34:39
  up the script and like add more jokes or just make it more
• 34:44
  cohesive, like comedically, I guess.
• 34:48
  And it seems like it needed that on the writing side.
• 34:50
  It seems like on the directing, if everyone was coming off as
• 34:55
  flat and tired, like then it it needed more that the actors
• 34:59
  needed more direction. And as you said too, with James
• 35:03
  Earl Jones, it's like, is the joke just that it's James Earl
• 35:07
  Jones wearing a wig? Because like, that's a first
• 35:10
  draft idea maybe, but you need more than just that.
• 35:14
  Like that's less than they would do like on an SNL bit to make.
• 35:18
  And you also need him to be in the movie and have like a
• 35:21
  purpose in the movie. There is a payoff where the way
• 35:25
  they signify that James Earl Jones has come around and
• 35:27
  realized that he should not continue to hide and hope that
• 35:30
  the gangs will leave him alone, He should help his friend is
• 35:33
  that he's up in his apartment window and he throws one of his
• 35:37
  precious jazz records at the bad guy to distract him like they
• 35:40
  talk about earlier in the movie. He's like, ah, I would never
• 35:43
  part with my Billie Holiday records.
• 35:44
  And then he throws one and breaks it to like distract the
• 35:48
  bad guy. So I'm like, OK, that's it.
• 35:51
  That's a button on his character.
• 35:53
  Where has he been the whole time?
• 35:56
  Have a purpose in the movie beyond that one idea at the
• 35:59
  beginning that pays off at the end.
• 36:01
  There isn't like a more of a traditional sidekick character
• 36:04
  who's Townsend's friend that works with him at the school,
• 36:08
  and it's kind of like his support guy, but he doesn't do a
• 36:11
  lot either. Like the only real beat with him
• 36:13
  is that at one point he steals Meteor Man's suit and pretends
• 36:17
  to be Meteor Man to like, pick up women at the mall, and then
• 36:21
  that kind of goes nowhere. Yeah, and I'm sure we dedicate a
• 36:25
  whole pointless scene to that. Yeah, we dedicate a whole scene
• 36:28
  where like the bad guys are going after who they still think
• 36:33
  is Meteor Man, even though it's his friend.
• 36:34
  And so the real Meteor Man's like, Oh no, I have to save him
• 36:38
  without he he wants to do it in like a non confrontational way
• 36:41
  because a lot of his problem solving is very nonviolent.
• 36:44
  So instead of fighting the bad guys before they can get to his
• 36:48
  friend, he like eye lasers the back of their guns so that they
• 36:53
  don't fire. And then he telekinesis is his
• 36:57
  friend into the sky so it looks like it is the real meteor man.
• 37:00
  And then the scene just kind of ends because they didn't know
• 37:02
  what they were doing with it. It just kind of ends.
• 37:05
  That's the whole movie. Things just sort of happen back
• 37:08
  and forth. The Golden Lords show up, then
• 37:11
  they leave, then they show up again, then they leave.
• 37:14
  Like it. It has no rhythm.
• 37:16
  The movie is completely lacking in comedic rhythm or just
• 37:20
  storytelling rhythm where a lot of it is fine.
• 37:24
  I would even say the movie looks kind of nice, like the
• 37:26
  cinematography is basic, but it has sort of this warm orange
• 37:31
  lighting quality to it that I really liked.
• 37:33
  And even the costuming for the Golden Lords is pretty funny.
• 37:36
  But yeah, just a bunch of pieces that never came together.
• 37:40
  Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I like that you mentioned the
• 37:43
  the warm lighting. I'm a I'm a big fan of like warm
• 37:46
  lighting and cinematography too, and kind of the emotion that
• 37:49
  that evokes. 'Cause I think his he was going
• 37:51
  for orange and green as like the color palette, 'cause everything
• 37:54
  Meteor Man does is green. And then the orange was used for
• 37:57
  like a lot of the fill lights and the backgrounds.
• 37:59
  And there's a lot of like just late in the afternoon kind of
• 38:02
  shots on these sets that they're doing.
• 38:04
  So like the movie's not pointless.
• 38:06
  Like there's nice qualities to it.
• 38:08
  And clearly it left an impression in terms of like
• 38:10
  being a landmark movie for black representation and a very
• 38:14
  popular genre. I will say before I forget, the
• 38:18
  golden Lords actually show up in a Miles Morales spider man comic
• 38:21
  at some point as like a one off. Oh, see, that's what I'm saying.
• 38:24
  Yeah. I, I think that's the the Marvel
• 38:28
  partnership now. I I think that that somewhere
• 38:30
  along the way, these, yeah, these became Marvel characters.
• 38:33
  The rights to Meteor Man were purchased by Marvel, and I think
• 38:36
  Marvel even made like a short comic series about like the
• 38:40
  continuing adventures of Meteor Man.
• 38:42
  And then, yeah, as like a Easter egg, some gang people show up in
• 38:46
  a Miles Morales story who are like have the signature golden
• 38:49
  Lords look. So like, there's an impact
• 38:51
  there. I'm sure it resonated with a lot
• 38:53
  of people who were like, well, we didn't have anything before
• 38:55
  this. And we like elements of what
• 38:58
  this movie is choosing to represent.
• 39:00
  But if anything, that just makes me more frustrated because I'm
• 39:02
  like, you had a good chance here.
• 39:05
  And clearly a lot of good ideas. But to your point, Frank, I
• 39:09
  think he just, he wore too many hats on this one.
• 39:12
  And it he just couldn't keep all those plates spinning at the
• 39:14
  same time. Yeah, like, I, I can see the
• 39:18
  strong pitch for this movie. Like I, I can see why actors
• 39:22
  like James Earl Jones would be a part of it, You know, like it,
• 39:25
  it's like you said it it's filling an important void in
• 39:29
  terms of representation. It just unfortunately wasn't the
• 39:33
  best executed film. Yeah, I would say that I
• 39:37
  complimented Steele in our first episode for aiming low because
• 39:41
  it knew it didn't have a lot to work with trying to make a movie
• 39:44
  starring Shaquille O'Neal where they couldn't even have him do a
• 39:46
  lot of stunts because he was training for the Olympics.
• 39:49
  There was like a lot of weird context behind that movie where
• 39:51
  the end result was like really competent.
• 39:54
  It was very A to B, but it hit all the correct beats and was
• 39:58
  just kind of ATV movie feel, whereas Meteor Man was like
• 40:02
  aiming a bit higher and whiffed it.
• 40:04
  And so it ends up feeling like a much worse viewing experience,
• 40:08
  even though it was trying to be something a lot better than
• 40:10
  Steele ever was. Well, yeah, that's I, I almost
• 40:15
  expected this from Meteor Man, to be honest.
• 40:17
  I thought it would be an interesting choice because I was
• 40:20
  curious to see if it kind of exceeded those expectations.
• 40:24
  But it it sounds like it it it fell short.
• 40:28
  Wasn't wasn't the best. It it ran out of powers script
• 40:33
  writing superpowers before the movie ended, I don't know.
• 40:39
  Yeah, you ran out of powers just now.
• 40:41
  I did from watching Meteor Man. Well, I but to circle back on
• 40:47
  that again though, I do like that that's something I would
• 40:49
  like to see revisited. I like the idea of a superhero
• 40:55
  gradually losing their superpowers over the course of a
• 40:59
  film. You can even do it with like an
• 41:01
  established character. We already know their powers and
• 41:05
  then they're like slowly actually.
• 41:07
  What was it? I think it was Tiger and Bunny,
• 41:10
  the anime series that was about superhero characters.
• 41:13
  I think the lead character in that Tiger was that was kind of
• 41:15
  his story was that he was getting older and and losing his
• 41:18
  superpowers. I thought that that was kind of
• 41:20
  a fun thing. It's that's an interesting one.
• 41:22
  I think the most common version you would see is like the I'm
• 41:26
  getting too old for this story where like they have super
• 41:28
  strength, but it's not as strong and like their stamina is
• 41:31
  worsening. This one was more like, I had
• 41:33
  nothing and then I was given everything.
• 41:35
  And now I'm watching it slowly slip away, which I think is
• 41:38
  interesting framing, like you said, because in that moment
• 41:40
  he's like, oh, I have so much responsibility now.
• 41:42
  I can fix everything. And there's even dialogue about
• 41:45
  like, once you're done saving our neighborhood, like you can
• 41:47
  go to the next neighborhood and you'll, you'll rid the whole
• 41:50
  planet of crime. And then in the end he's like,
• 41:52
  no, I can't do all this myself, You know, no matter how powered
• 41:56
  up I am. Like it's up to individual
• 41:58
  people to work together to address the problems ailing
• 42:03
  their communities. Which is like a strong message
• 42:06
  that is immediately dwarfed by him doing a bad Bruce Lee gag in
• 42:10
  the good old climax of the story.
• 42:13
  It it's a strong. Message and a good take on
• 42:14
  superheroes in general in in terms of like superheroes in the
• 42:20
  real world context and them being more symbols than actual
• 42:26
  beings with unlimited power that could go stop all the crime
• 42:28
  because I think I don't know if we've mentioned that in our last
• 42:30
  episode or whatever, but that's kind of a thing with
• 42:34
  superheroes, especially characters like Superman.
• 42:36
  It's like, yeah, why don't you go just stop all the war with
• 42:38
  Superman? Like, you know, you can do
• 42:41
  anything. That's what the most recent
• 42:43
  James Gunn Superman tried to do. And then instead it was like a
• 42:45
  15 minute talking to from another character where they're
• 42:49
  like, that was bad Superman, you don't understand international
• 42:52
  politics. And I was like, why is this in
• 42:54
  here? This is so boring.
• 42:58
  Did you guys ever think that if Superman was real, that might be
• 43:02
  kind of problematic? And it's like, yeah, wow,
• 43:06
  thrilling. But but to bring it back to
• 43:10
  Meteor man, he tried to address that in in a way, and it may
• 43:14
  have just not landed, but I like the idea behind it.
• 43:17
  I I do, I do appreciate. That 10 out of 10.
• 43:19
  Meteor Man. 10 out of 10 for that concept, that idea, but you
• 43:24
  know, again, it's about the execution.
• 43:26
  Yeah, 10 out of 10 for effort, soon to be revealed out of 10
• 43:31
  for how good the movie was. Soon to be, yeah.
• 43:35
  Pretty good actually. Pretty good.
• 43:37
  We'll see. So yeah, that's that's it for
• 43:40
  Meteor Man for now. We're going to head into our
• 43:41
  intermission and then Frank coming in after the break,
• 43:44
  you'll talk about the movie I asked you to watch, 1992's The
• 43:47
  Shadow. Maybe I might do it.
• 43:51
  He might do it, maybe he just didn't see it, Whatever.
• 44:04
  All right, Frank, quick note, while we're still in our
• 44:06
  intermission, we for the first time are actually going to make
• 44:09
  a guest appearance on a different podcast, if you can
• 44:12
  believe it. I can't believe it.
• 44:14
  Who would let us near their own production?
• 44:20
  Yes, we, Frank, you and I, we recorded an episode with Tristan
• 44:24
  and Jeff from the Hard Ticket podcast, which also is a movie
• 44:28
  podcast that talks about two movies at a time.
• 44:30
  They have a different gimmick than us.
• 44:32
  Theirs is that you pick 2 movies with some connecting thread
• 44:35
  between them and you sort of suppose that they're both
• 44:38
  playing at the movies at the same time and you have to decide
• 44:40
  which one of them you'd rather go see.
• 44:42
  So we made an episode with them talking about two 70s disaster
• 44:46
  movies, The Poseidon Adventure and The Towering Inferno, and
• 44:50
  had a great conversation with them.
• 44:52
  So if you like our show, please go check out our guest
• 44:54
  appearance on Hard Ticket. Their show's fantastic as well.
• 44:57
  If you like our content, you'll definitely like theirs.
• 44:59
  That comes out if you're listening to this episode.
• 45:02
  The Hard Ticket appearance releases tomorrow, Friday,
• 45:05
  February 20th, So very excited about that.
• 45:08
  Yeah, me too. Hope to see you over there.
• 45:10
  Believe it or not, Frank's excited.
• 45:12
  Weird, right? Right.
• 45:15
  OK, bye. Bye.
• 45:24
  All right, back from the other side of the intermission, Frank.
• 45:26
  Now we turn things over to you to talk about the movie I asked
• 45:28
  you to watch, 1994's The Shadow, starring Alec Baldwin in what I
• 45:33
  think is sort of like a Hulk comic era superhero movie,
• 45:40
  right? That's like a whole different
• 45:42
  type of superhero. But there's been a couple movies
• 45:44
  like it and I'm curious if you like this one.
• 45:46
  Yeah, he is definitely that in this movie.
• 45:50
  It's similar to It's funny that this was my first comparison.
• 45:56
  The the first time you see his character like in costume in the
• 46:01
  movie, I'm like, this reminds me of something.
• 46:04
  I was like, you know what he looks like Darkwing Duck and.
• 46:10
  You know what? I could see that.
• 46:13
  Like if you do a side by side, I literally because I had to look
• 46:16
  it up and I was like, what is Darkwing Duck based on?
• 46:20
  And and the inspirations listed for Darkwing Duck are Batman,
• 46:24
  The Green Hornet and the Shadow. Because the shadow was like I
• 46:29
  think it's most popular previous iteration was like a radio
• 46:33
  drama, but it was also like a comic strip.
• 46:36
  And in terms of the costuming though, the Darkwing Duck is
• 46:40
  very literally the shadow. They're wearing like the same
• 46:42
  thing. That's awesome.
• 46:44
  Yeah, 'cause I guess for someone who maybe can't picture this
• 46:47
  because they haven't seen a lot of things like it, these were
• 46:49
  like 1930s, you know, pulp action shows or radio serials,
• 46:55
  like you said, that often were sort of a combination of like a
• 46:58
  noir detective and a superhero. Green Hornet's probably the most
• 47:03
  recognizable one of those picture like a guy fighting
• 47:06
  crime in a trench coat. And that's kind of where we're
• 47:08
  at. Yes, well, it's also very Batman
• 47:11
  too. I mean, I would say maybe
• 47:12
  Batman's a little more popular. Than Batman is more popular but
• 47:16
  is like more blended into regular superhero storytelling.
• 47:19
  But he is sort of like a bridge between a Superman and the
• 47:23
  shadow. Yes, you're very right.
• 47:26
  These guys are definitely way more on the noir detective side
• 47:30
  of things, which is a lot of fun honestly.
• 47:32
  Like it's it's a great space to play around in.
• 47:35
  But this movie, it's crazy. It's I was very excited as from
• 47:47
  like the very beginning, like like the first like 20 or so
• 47:51
  minutes of this movie, I'm like, well, this is 10 out of 10.
• 47:53
  We're just. Nice.
• 47:57
  This is I was like, if what you've told me is true, you have
• 48:00
  earned my trust for the rest of this movie is.
• 48:04
  That case window. Yeah, yeah.
• 48:06
  Thank you. This guy out here dropping
• 48:11
  obscure Revenge of the Sith chord.
• 48:16
  I'm glad you got it though. I'm glad you're paying
• 48:18
  attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm on my
• 48:19
  toes. Yeah, yeah, it's just like, I
• 48:22
  almost don't even know where to begin with this because there's
• 48:24
  so much to to to talk about that I enjoyed.
• 48:27
  Let's start at the beginning. That's usually a good place.
• 48:30
  Usually it starts. It starts with an opening title
• 48:37
  crawl for the credits. Sorry, not a title crawl, but
• 48:40
  like just an opening credits sequence with some fun music.
• 48:44
  The score is by Jerry Goldsmith, who also did the score for
• 48:48
  Supergirl. So that's that's two in a row.
• 48:52
  Yeah. And he more famously has did the
• 48:55
  score for all the early Star Trek movies.
• 48:58
  And I think he even did the score for Next Generation.
• 49:01
  I think he was the one that composed the TNG theme.
• 49:05
  Yeah, so the shadow right away has a fun score that's very
• 49:10
  reminiscent of like, I would say like the Tim Burton Batman
• 49:15
  movies. I think if you want to get get a
• 49:17
  sense like visually of what this film is most similar to it, it
• 49:22
  would be those those movies. It's kind of like the early 90s,
• 49:25
  like Michael Keaton Batman stuff.
• 49:27
  Yes, it's kind of like that, but leaning more into like, like you
• 49:31
  mentioned earlier, like the Green Hornet side of things,
• 49:35
  where it it's not as bombastic in its visual stylistic choices.
• 49:42
  But I like that 'cause it almost lands in a in a more tempered
• 49:45
  place between the two. Which is good for a live action,
• 49:48
  I mean kind of makes it an easier adaptation I think.
• 49:51
  Yeah, No, exactly, exactly. And yeah, and you mentioned Alec
• 49:55
  Baldwin, who is is great in this movie.
• 50:02
  As somebody who's watched a lot of 30 Rock, it was really hard
• 50:06
  for me to not picture him like as Jack Donaghy as the Shadow.
• 50:11
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Alec Baldwin's a funny one.
• 50:15
  He's like, I mean, modern Alec Baldwin is mired in public
• 50:20
  controversy. So not people aren't a big fan
• 50:22
  of the person, but as an actor, he's so much the same guy in a
• 50:26
  lot of his movies that it does kind of feel like Alec Baldwin,
• 50:30
  the character playing the shadow as opposed to like him
• 50:33
  inhabiting a new role. Totally.
• 50:35
  And and from what I read, the film makers had him in mind for
• 50:39
  the role from the very beginning.
• 50:40
  So I was almost written specifically for him, which I
• 50:43
  think totally works for this. But we have to get into the rest
• 50:49
  of the cast a little bit here too because it is also stacked.
• 50:53
  I mean, it's crazy, like, just during that opening credit
• 50:58
  sequence, like, names were popping up, people I did not
• 51:01
  know were in the movie going in. But Ian McKellen is in this
• 51:05
  movie. Tim Curry.
• 51:08
  Like, those two characters share a lot of screen time.
• 51:13
  The main antagonist of the film, who is a direct descendant of
• 51:22
  Genghis Khan, but with superpowers.
• 51:26
  OK, which is just amazing. This is this is where I was
• 51:29
  like, that's what this movie is. I'm so sold on everything you're
• 51:33
  telling me right now. Like that's hilarious.
• 51:36
  We all know the famously super powered gang is gone.
• 51:39
  Yeah, I was like, that's the bad guy.
• 51:41
  That's awesome. Like tell me more.
• 51:43
  I'm on his team. Honestly, especially because
• 51:46
  he's played by John Lone. Who is for me Most famously
• 51:53
  known he was Ricky Tan in Rush Hour 2.
• 51:57
  Oh, OK, OK, that that is more of a poll than a Ian McKellen.
• 52:01
  But honestly, yeah, Rush Hour 2 is great so that makes sense.
• 52:05
  Yes, yes, exactly. There's a lot of like actors in
• 52:08
  this that just spoke to me specifically.
• 52:11
  Like I'm like, oh, that guy said this, this is great.
• 52:14
  We had last season, I think, oh gosh, what movie was he in?
• 52:20
  I think it was no escape. We had Stuart Wilson, who was
• 52:26
  who played Walker, the bad guy from the live action Ninja
• 52:30
  Turtles 3 movie. Oh.
• 52:31
  Yeah, yeah, Ninja Turtles mentioned.
• 52:33
  Put it on the other board. Yeah, yeah, this movie has the
• 52:37
  other bad guy from Ninja Turtles. 3.
• 52:40
  Yeah, yeah. His name is is SAB Shimono.
• 52:44
  And I had to look him up because he was one where I was like, I
• 52:47
  know, I recognize this guy. And I was like, oh, OK, OK, it's
• 52:49
  that guy from the Trolls 3. And but then I was looking at
• 52:52
  his other credits too. And he was also the voice of the
• 52:58
  uncle character on Jackie Chan Adventures, which I didn't know
• 53:01
  previously. Oh that's awesome.
• 53:03
  I love when it really shows how much time we spend watching and
• 53:07
  talking about movies that your examples for.
• 53:09
  Like this cast is stacked. Is the bad guy from Rush Hour 2
• 53:13
  and the uncle from Jackie Chan? Venture Yeah, yeah.
• 53:17
  And I have one more. Two.
• 53:18
  Well, I have one more that's possibly even more obscure, but
• 53:22
  the this is this. This is also the second movie in
• 53:25
  a row. We got 22 Jerry Goldsmith scores
• 53:28
  in a row, but we also have two die hard alum actors.
• 53:32
  In a row. Yes, yes, this movie, it's, it's
• 53:35
  a very bit role, as is usually the case for him.
• 53:37
  But the actor's name is is Albert Leong, and he's the guy
• 53:41
  who eats the crunch bar in Die Hard.
• 53:45
  Yeah, where he's just, like, waiting to shoot at the police,
• 53:47
  but he's hiding behind, like, the candy counter.
• 53:50
  And so he starts eating chocolate.
• 53:52
  Yes, that guy is in that like that rare class of actors where
• 53:56
  he's like a famous extra almost. He's like made a whole career
• 54:01
  out of like, I was looking him up and like some people like his
• 54:05
  nickname is that they refer to him as like Asian bad guy
• 54:08
  because that's just usually like the role that he's in, right?
• 54:11
  Is he like a stuntman too? Is that part of it?
• 54:14
  I, he might be, I, I didn't do too much digging in in into
• 54:17
  that. I just know I, I've recognized
• 54:19
  him in a lot of roles for me, most famously Die Hard.
• 54:23
  But he's been in a ton of action franchises.
• 54:25
  Like honestly, like pretty much all the big action franchises of
• 54:28
  the 90s he's been a part of just in bit roles.
• 54:31
  And yeah, he may. He may be a stunt performer as
• 54:33
  well. That's The funny thing about
• 54:35
  looking back at a lot of films from a certain period of time is
• 54:38
  that you do start to see like the actual Hollywood ecosystem,
• 54:42
  like people moving from one project to the next and kind of
• 54:45
  just combining and recombining. I'm actually pretty interested
• 54:49
  in Ian McKellen being in this. Like, so many of his most iconic
• 54:54
  roles came later in his career. I wonder what he was best known
• 54:57
  for at the time in 94. That's that's an excellent point
• 55:02
  because I was thinking too, I'm like, this is like not too long
• 55:06
  before he plays Magneto. Well, that's true.
• 55:09
  Which is a a big superhero movie.
• 55:12
  Yeah, he's still playing Magneto.
• 55:13
  He's going to be Magneto in the in end game I think.
• 55:16
  He's going to play Magneto long after you and I are dead.
• 55:19
  Yes, exactly. Long after he's dead, he's still
• 55:22
  going to be Magneto, actually. Yeah, But yeah, this was 94.
• 55:27
  I think the original X-Men was 99 or 2000.
• 55:30
  But he I will say him and Tim Curry to an extent to are
• 55:36
  actually, I guess the biggest disappointments because similar
• 55:40
  to what you were saying with James Earl Jones, he's
• 55:43
  completely wasted in this movie. He has very little dialogue.
• 55:48
  The plot line involving him has him like he's gets like mind
• 55:54
  controlled, which is kind of a big thing in this movie
• 55:56
  actually. And so he's just kind of like
• 56:00
  being a mind controlled puppet for the bad guy, for Ricky Tan
• 56:03
  for like most of the movie. Just going to call him Ricky
• 56:06
  Tan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:08
  Or con, whatever you want to call him.
• 56:09
  Whatever works. I just just that's such an ear
• 56:12
  worm for me. Is is is Chris Tucker in rush
• 56:15
  hour, too? He's like Ricky Tan.
• 56:16
  Ricky Tan, get up. I need you to come with me.
• 56:18
  Oh yeah, yeah. OK, really fast.
• 56:21
  Chris Tucker does an uncredited voice cameo in Not Method Man.
• 56:26
  That's a That's a record, Meteor Man.
• 56:30
  There's a scene I mentioned at the mall where Meteor Man's
• 56:33
  friend is pretending to be him and there's somebody speaking
• 56:35
  over APA and that's Chris Tucker.
• 56:38
  No way. Oh, that's great.
• 56:39
  That's awesome. Chris Tucker does very few film
• 56:43
  roles in general. One of the only things he seems
• 56:45
  to always want to do is Rush Hour.
• 56:47
  Yeah, yeah, that's true. Anyway, so those are Chris
• 56:49
  Tucker adjacent double feature. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 56:54
  But yeah, but also similar to James Earl Jones character in
• 56:58
  Meteor Man, there's this weird thing with Ian Mckellen's
• 57:02
  character. It's like the only quirk his
• 57:04
  character gets is that like, I honestly don't even know what
• 57:08
  they were going for here. They don't explicitly say he's
• 57:13
  color blind, but he doesn't seem to know.
• 57:18
  Like he confuses red and green. Like he just thinks things that
• 57:24
  are red are green and the opposite.
• 57:28
  Thrilling. Yeah, well, it comes it like at
• 57:31
  first it's just like, OK, that's a weird detail to throw in.
• 57:35
  But then in the climax of the film, he has to to disarm a bomb
• 57:41
  and like cut the red wire or something, and he goes to cut
• 57:45
  the green wire and another character has to be like, no,
• 57:48
  not that one. Like so it's like what?
• 57:52
  I don't understand. That's not that doesn't seem
• 57:54
  like a like a loud enough bit. Like what?
• 57:58
  It would be funny if it was like play to the point of absurdity,
• 58:01
  but otherwise that's not a dramatic beat.
• 58:04
  No, no, and and and this movie, like tonally isn't a good place.
• 58:10
  Like it it it never it takes itself too seriously.
• 58:15
  It's it's very much inhabiting a world of camp.
• 58:18
  I would say it's so it's not like it's out of place
• 58:22
  necessarily. It's just odd, you know, and and
• 58:24
  not not elaborated on in a way that made sense.
• 58:27
  I was genuinely like, I don't get it.
• 58:29
  I I really don't understand what the point of this is.
• 58:32
  Like why he can't? Is it just these two colours he
• 58:34
  can't tell apart? Is he colour blind?
• 58:36
  They they don't say enough. That's the most common form I
• 58:38
  think is red green colour blind. I would, I would assume if
• 58:41
  that's going to be in there as even remotely like silly bit,
• 58:43
  you'd have to play it as like, he's constantly driving through
• 58:48
  red lights thinking they're green lights.
• 58:49
  And the joke is like, how would he not understand that by now
• 58:52
  that that's how it works? You know what I mean?
• 58:53
  Like something more overtly silly.
• 58:56
  But it seems like they're like, no, this is just a struggle for
• 58:58
  Ian McKellen. Yeah, Yeah.
• 59:01
  So it's unfortunate because he is very much wasted.
• 59:05
  Like when he's not under mind control, he's kind of just like
• 59:07
  this, like doddering old fool. And I'm like, oh, this is such a
• 59:10
  bummer. Like, you don't need to like do
• 59:13
  Ian McKellen like that. And.
• 59:14
  And it's also he's paired up with Tim Curry.
• 59:16
  Tim Curry is like his E Mckellen's character is like a
• 59:20
  scientist, like researcher, and he's like research assistant is
• 59:24
  Tim Curry. But Tim Curry, like, willingly
• 59:28
  like, sides with the bad guys because he's just like, kind of
• 59:32
  a scummy character. And so they don't get nearly
• 59:35
  enough screen time together. And E McKellen just has just a
• 59:38
  weak character and he's barely there.
• 59:40
  So that was kind of a shame because I was, I went from being
• 59:44
  very excited that they were here at all and then on screen
• 59:47
  together. And, and I think I even read
• 59:49
  too, that Tim Curry only agreed to do the movie because he got
• 59:54
  to work with Ian McKellen. Oh interesting.
• 59:56
  But why though? Was it from his stage work?
• 59:59
  Like what was his biggest movie in 90?
• 1:00:00
  I'm so curious about that. I believe I could be wrong about
• 1:00:03
  this, but I I think the two of them had actually worked
• 1:00:05
  together on stage before. I think Tim Curry and Ian
• 1:00:08
  McKellen. Had a stage before, yeah.
• 1:00:09
  He was like a super accomplished theatrical actor.
• 1:00:14
  And I know he was in stuff even in like the mid to late 90s that
• 1:00:17
  was like very acclaimed. But I don't know, as someone who
• 1:00:20
  grew up in like the 90s into the 2000s, I'm just like Gandalf.
• 1:00:24
  Like that's just all I can think of.
• 1:00:26
  Yeah. So because this is also, again,
• 1:00:27
  not too far removed from the first Lord of the Rings.
• 1:00:31
  And and this is this is just a little bit earlier than that
• 1:00:33
  before his biggest, like commercially successful roles.
• 1:00:36
  So I don't know if audiences would have been like, at the
• 1:00:39
  time been like, Oh my gosh, Ian McKellen, you know, they might
• 1:00:42
  not have. He may have primarily been a
• 1:00:43
  stage actor at this point. And I didn't do enough research
• 1:00:46
  into that. Anyway, who's who's Alec Baldwin
• 1:00:51
  in it? Alec Baldwin's basically Batman.
• 1:00:54
  He, yeah, like everything about him.
• 1:00:58
  Just picture Batman and that's it.
• 1:01:00
  Like he like. Picture Batman changed nothing
• 1:01:05
  Ian Mckell No The Shadow. The shadow, yeah.
• 1:01:09
  So to continue with things I don't actually understand about
• 1:01:13
  the movie, I really don't 100% understand like what the shadows
• 1:01:19
  like superpowers are like. So again, we'll start at the
• 1:01:24
  beginning because that's usually that's, that's a great place to
• 1:01:26
  start. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:27
  Yeah, the movie starts in just a hilarious way where like Baldwin
• 1:01:33
  is introduced on screen as this like mustache twirling like evil
• 1:01:38
  character, like living in some. I don't even know if they
• 1:01:42
  specify, but he's in like some Asian like Eastern country and
• 1:01:48
  is like a like mob boss guy of some kind.
• 1:01:52
  He's like killing people. And then he's abducted by these
• 1:01:59
  monks who are like, we're going to train you and teach you how
• 1:02:04
  to like control men's minds is what they say to him.
• 1:02:08
  And the the first action sequence of the film is him
• 1:02:12
  fighting a like dagger that flies around and has a name.
• 1:02:16
  It's got like a little like face on it.
• 1:02:19
  What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's but, but
• 1:02:23
  it was reminding me again of Power Rangers.
• 1:02:25
  It was reminding me of like the Saba.
• 1:02:27
  Sword. That the White Ranger has, yeah.
• 1:02:29
  And. On the board.
• 1:02:30
  Put it on the board. It's two in one episode.
• 1:02:35
  But I'm like, OK, this is this is kind of silly.
• 1:02:38
  But they're like, yeah, they're like, we're going to, we're
• 1:02:40
  going to teach you to to be the shadow.
• 1:02:43
  And then we flash forward and, oh, actually, so.
• 1:02:48
  So after that, like, movie begins, we have these few scenes
• 1:02:52
  play out. And then when that scene ends,
• 1:02:54
  then we get like a text scroll saying like, you know, the monks
• 1:02:59
  trained him to be the shadow. And then he went back to like,
• 1:03:02
  New York City. I'm like, this is really odd to
• 1:03:05
  have this at this point. Yeah, in the movie.
• 1:03:08
  Why did the what was the monks stated reason for why they chose
• 1:03:12
  him? They're like, you seem like a
• 1:03:13
  really bad, irresponsible person.
• 1:03:16
  He's perfect, I think. I don't know, that's the thing.
• 1:03:20
  Like it's I they don't elaborate a lot they or at all really.
• 1:03:25
  They just, I think it had something to do with like maybe
• 1:03:29
  he was like a descendant of someone that had this ability.
• 1:03:35
  Like I, I there was a specific reason they chose him.
• 1:03:37
  He wasn't just like a random person that they grabbed and
• 1:03:40
  decided that they were going to teach this.
• 1:03:41
  It had to be him for some specific reason.
• 1:03:44
  I believe they did not say just. Picturing these monks being
• 1:03:49
  like, now the shadow has to be disciplined and efficient and
• 1:03:53
  well trained and stoic and they're like, who could do that?
• 1:03:57
  Certainly not a monk. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:04:00
  It's like, why don't you guys do this?
• 1:04:02
  I don't like. They also don't really say why
• 1:04:05
  any of this is necessary. Like they don't get into the
• 1:04:10
  lore and I'm totally fine with that.
• 1:04:11
  I think I said that during the Supergirl review too.
• 1:04:13
  I'm like, I really don't actually care.
• 1:04:15
  If there's a theme for this season, it's that we're we don't
• 1:04:18
  want lore, we don't need it. You don't need it because then
• 1:04:21
  the very next scene after the the the text scroll is like
• 1:04:25
  scroll scroll is not a thing he's.
• 1:04:27
  Well, maybe they scrawled text on the scroll.
• 1:04:30
  That's true. That's how they did it.
• 1:04:31
  Fun fact, he's, he's back in New York and you get this very like
• 1:04:38
  Batman esque scene where there's these, you know, these thugs and
• 1:04:42
  they have this guy like literally they've, they've put a
• 1:04:46
  block of cement on his feet, you know, and they're gonna like
• 1:04:49
  throw him in the river. They're gonna throw him off the
• 1:04:51
  Brooklyn Bridge. And the Shadow does this thing
• 1:04:55
  where he does this like maniacal laugh from the shadows.
• 1:05:00
  And it's really funny 'cause it's just like Alec Baldwin
• 1:05:03
  doing an evil laugh. And I'm like, that's a funny
• 1:05:05
  thing for your superhero character to do.
• 1:05:08
  Yeah, like you said, it's just like, ha ha.
• 1:05:14
  Exactly. And so and then, so this is,
• 1:05:19
  this is like his first action sequence as the shadow.
• 1:05:22
  And like, they can't see him, you know, because he's like a
• 1:05:25
  shadow. He's like beating them up.
• 1:05:27
  Yeah. So it's like, but you do see
• 1:05:30
  there's like this visual effect of like this like smoke man kind
• 1:05:35
  of like punching them and like throwing them around.
• 1:05:37
  And I'm like, oh, wait, So he has like actual shadow man
• 1:05:42
  powers. And then that scene ends where
• 1:05:45
  it's like the one like bad guy that he didn't knock
• 1:05:48
  unconscious, like sees him in his full like the shadow costume
• 1:05:53
  and it's the Darkwing duck. But then he also for some
• 1:05:57
  reason, like when he is the shadow, it's a hell of Baldwin
• 1:06:01
  in this like prosthetic makeup where he has this like goofy,
• 1:06:05
  like almost Freddy Krueger looking mask.
• 1:06:08
  It's like this like rubber mask looking thing.
• 1:06:13
  And I and I think the idea behind it is to make him look
• 1:06:16
  intimidating to these criminals. He's supposed to look like a a
• 1:06:19
  monster man or something. I don't I'm not following any of
• 1:06:23
  this. But no, that's the thing.
• 1:06:24
  It's confusing because like the this, this is the first action
• 1:06:29
  sequence you see. And then the next scene you see
• 1:06:31
  with him is he's doing the Bruce Wayne side of this whole Batman
• 1:06:34
  stick where he's talking to like the police commissioner, you
• 1:06:37
  know, and they're like, oh, we got to catch the shadow guy.
• 1:06:40
  And then he does this like literal Jedi mind trick on the
• 1:06:44
  guy. He like leans back and like this
• 1:06:46
  shadow literally covers Alec Baldwin's face.
• 1:06:49
  And he starts just saying things like, you're not going to look
• 1:06:52
  for the shadow. He doesn't exist.
• 1:06:53
  And then like the police commissioner's like, I'm not
• 1:06:55
  going to look for him. He doesn't exist.
• 1:06:56
  So I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 1:06:58
  So he can Jedi mind trick people.
• 1:07:01
  So like I'm like, is that his only ability?
• 1:07:05
  Like he can just trick people into thinking they're seeing
• 1:07:08
  things. It's the whole shadow
• 1:07:10
  presentation of mind trick. That's a good question.
• 1:07:12
  Yes, which is what I thought up until like the midway point in
• 1:07:17
  the movie where he starts doing like other shadow things.
• 1:07:20
  And I'm like, OK, wait a minute. Now I'm more confused because,
• 1:07:23
  like, because later there's a there's an action sequence in
• 1:07:27
  the middle of the film where he's like fighting some more
• 1:07:30
  hench men. And at one point, like one of
• 1:07:32
  them, he's like shining a light around the room trying to, to
• 1:07:35
  find, you know, Alec Baldwin as the shadow.
• 1:07:38
  And like, he sees his shadow up against the wall.
• 1:07:41
  And one of the bad guys, 'cause they're like Genghis Khan, foot
• 1:07:44
  soldier guys, has like a crossbow.
• 1:07:47
  And he like, yeah, of course, 'cause of course he does.
• 1:07:51
  He shoots the crossbow into the shadow That's that's up on the
• 1:07:55
  wall and it like pins him there almost like Peter Pan's shadow,
• 1:08:00
  you know, where it's like this kind of separate entity from
• 1:08:04
  him. And he's like stuck there.
• 1:08:06
  Like he has, he's stuck to the wall for a second because his
• 1:08:09
  shadow got shot to the wall. And I'm like, well, OK, now I'm
• 1:08:11
  just really confused. This is very.
• 1:08:13
  Strange, that's like 3 different concepts for the shadow All in
• 1:08:17
  all in one movie. Yes, and he also has two guns,
• 1:08:21
  so I'm like, OK, so he's also just like a regular guy, like.
• 1:08:25
  My name's the Shadow. I have a Peter Pan shadow and a
• 1:08:29
  gun. It's like, I feel like 2 guns, 2
• 1:08:32
  guns and a shadow. And it's like, well, it's your
• 1:08:35
  shadow. If you're in a dark room, are
• 1:08:37
  there really shadows? And then he's like, well, hold
• 1:08:39
  on. Hey, hey, gun, Wait a minute.
• 1:08:41
  The monks didn't go over this. Yeah, they didn't tell me, they
• 1:08:44
  didn't tell me. Just checking over the the like
• 1:08:47
  script. He's like, well, how does this
• 1:08:48
  work? Because then there's, there's
• 1:08:50
  one other instance too. Again, the whole time I'm trying
• 1:08:53
  to figure out how this works because like, there's like a guy
• 1:08:55
  tailing him at one point and he like steps into like a dark
• 1:08:59
  alley and then like disappears into the shadow.
• 1:09:02
  And then the guy like can't find him.
• 1:09:03
  And then he like walks away. And then Alec Baldwin steps out
• 1:09:05
  of the alley and I'm like, wait, so is that a Jedi mind trick or?
• 1:09:09
  Why would you need anything other than mind trick?
• 1:09:13
  If you can make someone believe whatever you say, why would you
• 1:09:16
  ever need any other tool? Well, I there's it's, it's
• 1:09:21
  literally it's the same rules as Star Wars.
• 1:09:22
  It like only works on like weak minded people is the
• 1:09:26
  explanation. So at one point he's talking to
• 1:09:33
  Ricky Tan, Genghis Khan and. That's actually my Xbox
• 1:09:37
  gamertag, yeah. There's some numbers mixed in
• 1:09:42
  there, though it's not. It's not all letters.
• 1:09:44
  Ricky Tan, Genghis Khan 125 is on my.
• 1:09:49
  And one of his hench men, you know, has a gun pointed at Alec
• 1:09:55
  Baldwin because he's being mind controlled by Genghis Khan.
• 1:09:59
  And then Alec Baldwin uses his Jedi mind trick power to make
• 1:10:04
  that hench men like give him the gun.
• 1:10:07
  So at one point they're like fighting over mind controlling
• 1:10:10
  this guy. And I'm like, this is hilarious.
• 1:10:12
  I love all of this, for the record.
• 1:10:15
  It sounds goofy as heck. Like I as the one who has not
• 1:10:19
  seen the movie, like it's the opposite of Meteor Man.
• 1:10:21
  I'm like, on paper this sounds horrendous.
• 1:10:24
  Yeah, no, but it's actually awesome for most of it.
• 1:10:27
  I will say like, as I said at the beginning, like from like
• 1:10:32
  the first like act of the movie, I'm like everything.
• 1:10:35
  This is like they introduce this whole thing where he's the bad
• 1:10:39
  guy. Then there's the monks, then
• 1:10:41
  he's doing the Batman thing. And this is all before like they
• 1:10:44
  revealed that the bad guy is. Is this like reincarnate Genghis
• 1:10:48
  Khan who who can also Jedi mind trick people?
• 1:10:50
  This this sounds like somebody drew Batman Begins from memory.
• 1:10:57
  Yeah, it is. Actually kind of similar to like
• 1:11:00
  the Razo Ghoul Ninja stuff. Obviously that movie came out
• 1:11:03
  way later, but strange. Strange.
• 1:11:06
  Just strange premise. Like that's not at all what I
• 1:11:08
  would have assumed. I would have assumed that he's a
• 1:11:10
  guy with two guns who sticks to the shadows because he's like a
• 1:11:16
  crime fighter. I didn't assume he'd have powers
• 1:11:17
  at all. Right, exactly because because
• 1:11:20
  like his contemporary characters like of like Batman and Green
• 1:11:26
  Hornet don't have powers like but he very much does.
• 1:11:30
  That's his whole thing. But it's interesting too,
• 1:11:34
  because he's also like, vulnerable.
• 1:11:37
  He's not like an indestructible type character, you know, like
• 1:11:40
  at one point Tim Curry almost kills him because for some
• 1:11:45
  reason, again, not explained, they walk into like, he's like
• 1:11:49
  trailing Tim Curry. And Tim Curry walks into this
• 1:11:51
  like giant, spherical, like metal room that fills with water
• 1:11:57
  that's like on a pier. I don't know what the actual
• 1:11:59
  purpose of this thing is. Well, you never heard of a good
• 1:12:02
  old pier sphere? That's a fierce fear.
• 1:12:04
  For some reason. He follows him in there and it
• 1:12:09
  starts to fit. Like Tim Curry is like scared.
• 1:12:11
  He's like running away from the shadow.
• 1:12:12
  But then he starts filling the room with water and like, he can
• 1:12:16
  see where the shadows footsteps are because there's water in the
• 1:12:19
  room now. And then he's able to shoot him.
• 1:12:23
  So he shoots Alec Baldwin like in the shoulder because he's
• 1:12:25
  like, well, you're right there. I can see you.
• 1:12:28
  It's not the line in the movie. He's like, I mean, you're right
• 1:12:30
  there. It's just.
• 1:12:30
  You're right. It's pretty obvious.
• 1:12:32
  Yeah. And then he leaves and, like,
• 1:12:34
  traps Alec Baldwin in there. So it's like, the room is
• 1:12:37
  filling with water. And, like, Alec Baldwin, like,
• 1:12:41
  none of his powers work here. He's just like, well, I'm dead.
• 1:12:44
  Like but which? Does I mean if he can inhabit a
• 1:12:50
  wall as a shadow, can a shadow on a wall drown?
• 1:12:54
  I, I don't know, I, I don't know the, the rules.
• 1:12:58
  Like what are the rules? Which almost makes it more,
• 1:13:00
  yeah, what are the rules? It almost makes it more exciting
• 1:13:02
  because I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen next.
• 1:13:04
  Like what can he do to get out of this situation?
• 1:13:07
  Adding context where he's just like in the middle of the
• 1:13:09
  finale. They're like you're a weakness,
• 1:13:11
  garlic. And he's like, no.
• 1:13:14
  Dang it, I didn't mention that, but that is true.
• 1:13:16
  That is in there. There's a lot of sub items on
• 1:13:19
  the contract I signed. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:22
  But so, so then again, like the way he gets out of that
• 1:13:25
  situation is his love interest in the movie is this woman he
• 1:13:30
  meets who, again, completely unexplained, she has like, some
• 1:13:35
  kind of telekinesis. She can read his thoughts.
• 1:13:40
  And so he has to get out of that situation by basically like
• 1:13:44
  calling her with his mind powers and be like, hey, I need you to
• 1:13:47
  help me or I'm going to die. And so then she just has to show
• 1:13:51
  up and like, open the door and let him out.
• 1:13:53
  This guy sounds like a nerd. I'll say it.
• 1:13:56
  Shadow sounds like, frankly, a loser.
• 1:14:02
  He kind of is, but it almost makes him more endearing in that
• 1:14:05
  way, you know, because like just.
• 1:14:08
  Like just a little guy trying to be a shadow.
• 1:14:10
  Just a little guy, he's just trying to hide in the shadows or
• 1:14:13
  something like. But also is the shadow but he's
• 1:14:17
  in it. But he's got a Freddy Krueger.
• 1:14:19
  Face yes yes and he's also like it's like he's trying to be
• 1:14:24
  Batman, but he's just not as good.
• 1:14:27
  So it's like all the things he has to do, he basically has to
• 1:14:30
  like blackmail a bunch of people into helping him do stuff, which
• 1:14:35
  again, is kind of fun, though, because it's like the guy he
• 1:14:37
  saves at the beginning who, who like had the cement on his feet
• 1:14:40
  and they were going to throw him over the bridge.
• 1:14:42
  Who that's that's that's the bad guy from Ninja troubles 3, by
• 1:14:45
  the way, that's that's SAP Shimono.
• 1:14:48
  And this is how they introduced this concept where he was like,
• 1:14:51
  OK, I saved your life, so you work for me now.
• 1:14:54
  And he gives him this like this like ring.
• 1:14:58
  And he's like, he's like the shadow is going to come and need
• 1:15:02
  your help in the future and you're going to help him.
• 1:15:04
  And then so like, you see other characters in the movie that
• 1:15:09
  will have this ring on and that's how, you know, like, oh,
• 1:15:11
  OK, these are the guys that are like helping him.
• 1:15:15
  And like, that's the kind of stuff where it feels way more
• 1:15:18
  tonally like 60s Batman almost where it's just like really
• 1:15:24
  corny camp superhero stuff. But it's fun.
• 1:15:29
  And it's like, you know, again, it's like unlike Batman with his
• 1:15:31
  Batmobile, this guy just has, he gets around New York City
• 1:15:36
  because he has a cab driver who just is his guy who works for
• 1:15:39
  him. He doesn't just like, fly
• 1:15:42
  through the shadows of the night like.
• 1:15:44
  No, no, he's not that good. Listen, first thing you got to
• 1:15:50
  know about the shadow. He stinks, OK.
• 1:15:53
  He's not that good. He's OK.
• 1:15:56
  He's all. Right, he's just not.
• 1:15:59
  He's not Batman though, like, and that's what makes him kind
• 1:16:02
  of more fun. Is that like, it's like, well, I
• 1:16:06
  mean, Tim Curry almost killed you, and that's just some dude
• 1:16:08
  with a gun. Like OK, so the beats of the
• 1:16:12
  story are nonsense. What about the like execution or
• 1:16:16
  the production design here? Is it making this fun to watch?
• 1:16:19
  Is it just like the visuals or the does it have like a good
• 1:16:22
  just like pacing to it? It does it does it, it's it's
• 1:16:26
  really all of those things actually.
• 1:16:27
  I mean, like, the pacing is strong for like the first half
• 1:16:32
  of the movie, and then it it loses momentum, unfortunately.
• 1:16:35
  And then it just it like kind of Peters out by the end, which is
• 1:16:40
  unfortunate because if they've been able to keep up the
• 1:16:42
  momentum of like the first 30 minutes of the movie, it would
• 1:16:46
  have just been an absolute like 11 out of 10 experience because
• 1:16:50
  it was just like, yeah, it was just like every new thing they
• 1:16:54
  introduced. I was like, what?
• 1:16:55
  That's crazy. Tell me more.
• 1:17:01
  So much of our conversation in these first two episodes of this
• 1:17:03
  season is just about like, how to write superpowers.
• 1:17:07
  And I feel like nobody knows how you have to like, have, I don't
• 1:17:12
  know, resonance between the different things.
• 1:17:14
  Even somebody like Superman having, like, ice breath is kind
• 1:17:17
  of a non sequitur. But Shadow has possibly the
• 1:17:20
  weirdest move set I've ever seen.
• 1:17:22
  He does. He does.
• 1:17:23
  Well, I mean, like with with last episode, like Supergirl had
• 1:17:26
  the huge advantage of people already knowing who Superman
• 1:17:29
  was. So you didn't need to explain
• 1:17:31
  her powers. Like she just did all the same
• 1:17:33
  things he did. And it's like, yeah, that's
• 1:17:34
  great. That works.
• 1:17:36
  Shadow. By the end of the movie, I'm
• 1:17:38
  like, I can't tell you exactly what the shadow does.
• 1:17:41
  I just know he's he's all right. He can do.
• 1:17:44
  Some stuff the Shadow's not great, but he puts in his 40
• 1:17:48
  hours a week all right, and he he tips his cab driver
• 1:17:52
  generously and then blackmails them into helping him.
• 1:17:56
  Right, right. But to answer your other
• 1:17:58
  question, it has a very consistent visual style that,
• 1:18:04
  like I said, is, is somewhat reminiscent of like the Tim
• 1:18:07
  Burton Batman movies, but just like dialed down a bit and make
• 1:18:12
  some like stylistically interesting choices.
• 1:18:15
  They do a few of those like split diopter shots which you
• 1:18:20
  might be familiar with where it's like the two halves of the
• 1:18:26
  frame are both in sharp focus. It it's kind of hard to explain
• 1:18:30
  it. What what would be like an
• 1:18:32
  example? An example of it, it's
• 1:18:34
  something, well, it looks sort of like from a production
• 1:18:38
  standpoint, it doesn't look that good.
• 1:18:39
  So I think it was like it's not a very often used technique.
• 1:18:43
  It's something that I think like Sam Raimi would use a lot.
• 1:18:46
  OK. But it's basically like in this
• 1:18:50
  case, the way it's used, it's like 1 character will be in the
• 1:18:52
  foreground and then a character will be in the background.
• 1:18:56
  Were normally like the focus would be shifting between those
• 1:19:00
  two characters where it's like the character in the background
• 1:19:01
  would be in focus and the character in the foreground
• 1:19:04
  would be soft. But in this type of shot,
• 1:19:06
  they're both in sharp focus and it almost looks like it
• 1:19:09
  visually. It's kind of like when the
• 1:19:12
  scenes are shot and spliced together, like if you're doing a
• 1:19:16
  scene where it's like the same actor in two different roles.
• 1:19:18
  And you can kind of. See.
• 1:19:20
  Yeah, don't. They do that in like Citizen
• 1:19:22
  Kane. Isn't there a lot of shots where
• 1:19:24
  like the whole range of the frame is like in focus?
• 1:19:27
  Yes, yes, I don't know if they do it in this same way, but that
• 1:19:33
  was definitely yes, that is definitely something they they
• 1:19:36
  used split diopters in in Citizen Kane as well.
• 1:19:38
  So that's that's a good, OK. That's a good now split diopter.
• 1:19:40
  Is that one of shadows abilities too?
• 1:19:43
  He won't tell you he would not. Won't tell you.
• 1:19:45
  Dare Shadows. Wouldn't tell him.
• 1:19:48
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, his whole character
• 1:19:51
  too, is like, he's going for this like, broody Batman thing.
• 1:19:56
  But like, the source of it for him is that he like, was like
• 1:20:00
  rehabilitated by these monks in a way.
• 1:20:02
  And he feels really bad about what he did as this.
• 1:20:06
  Like I don't know this like murderous mob boss.
• 1:20:10
  Like he's a loser. Like he.
• 1:20:15
  Tries really hard but he feels really bad.
• 1:20:18
  Yeah, yeah. And so with his Levengers
• 1:20:22
  character, they have that special connection where she can
• 1:20:26
  read his thoughts and and some other characters thoughts as
• 1:20:28
  well. But that's also never explained
• 1:20:31
  why she has that ability. I think the idea is kind of like
• 1:20:36
  the monks will find people that have this unique ability and
• 1:20:40
  then train them to use it. Wait.
• 1:20:41
  Wait, wait, wait. She was trained by monks.
• 1:20:44
  No, she was not. But Ricky Tan was Ricky Tan.
• 1:20:47
  And who is Khan? The Tang gang is Khan, Yes.
• 1:20:53
  They were both trained by the monks.
• 1:20:55
  Alec Baldwin went and became the shadow in New York.
• 1:20:57
  I believe Ricky Tan says that he killed all the monks after they
• 1:21:01
  trained him and he took that magic dagger with him.
• 1:21:07
  That was like the first thing that Alec blah blah blah Alec
• 1:21:12
  Baldwin fought in the movie. It's so hard to.
• 1:21:20
  Follow Yeah, it's not your fault, it's the movie.
• 1:21:26
  Well, I'm, I'm, I'm rambling a bit too because I'm excited
• 1:21:28
  though. I'm like this is this is I can.
• 1:21:29
  Feel engaging for someone who's not.
• 1:21:32
  Honestly this is maybe the first time you have been excited.
• 1:21:35
  I feel like now I'm questioning all the other times.
• 1:21:39
  Yeah, let's not talk about it, but this, this the shadow.
• 1:21:43
  The shadow is. I never felt anything in life
• 1:21:45
  until I saw the show. Woke this awoken something in
• 1:21:50
  me. Awokened.
• 1:21:54
  What? Yeah, that's what I said.
• 1:21:57
  Awokened. Awoken something within me that
• 1:22:00
  only a monk could explain, but they're dead.
• 1:22:04
  OK, Oh man. OK, so shadow is sort of a you
• 1:22:08
  have to you had to be there is what I'm getting from the
• 1:22:11
  shadow. Yeah, it is.
• 1:22:13
  It is in a way. It's just, it's so hard to
• 1:22:17
  explain like totally. And stylistically what an
• 1:22:22
  experience it was. The biggest downside I can say
• 1:22:25
  about it is that like just narratively, it really loses
• 1:22:29
  momentum in the second-half. And there's just not much for
• 1:22:34
  the characters on either side to do.
• 1:22:36
  Because what happens is I almost called him Shao Khan, but the
• 1:22:43
  king Genghis Khan, Ricky Tan character, he, his goal is he
• 1:22:48
  wants to take over the world because Genghis Khan failed to
• 1:22:51
  do that and he's going to succeed where he failed.
• 1:22:54
  OK. And for some reason, part of his
• 1:22:56
  plan to do that is to make a bomb and blow up New York City.
• 1:23:02
  That's like Step 1. He makes, oh, it's this is I, I
• 1:23:07
  this is keep piece of information.
• 1:23:08
  I forgot. It's like a period piece.
• 1:23:10
  It's set in like the 20s. Oh, OK, that helps.
• 1:23:14
  That helps me place it that it's everybody's old timing.
• 1:23:17
  It's not just the shadow. Yes, exactly, Exactly.
• 1:23:20
  Yeah. So like he makes like the first
• 1:23:24
  ever nuclear bomb, I think the shadow at one point, like when
• 1:23:28
  he he reaches out to the guy that he saved at the beginning,
• 1:23:32
  because he's trying to figure out like what Ricky Tan is
• 1:23:35
  trying to do. And the guy that he saved is
• 1:23:38
  like this like physicist, professor or something.
• 1:23:41
  And he's trying to explain this bomb that Ricky Tan's going to
• 1:23:45
  make. And and Alec Baldwin's like, you
• 1:23:47
  mean like some kind of atomic bomb.
• 1:23:49
  And he's like, yeah, that's a good name for it.
• 1:23:50
  We'll call it that. I was like, oh, OK.
• 1:23:56
  That is a funny trope. When people retroactively name
• 1:24:00
  things that you like, you're filling in those gaps.
• 1:24:03
  It's like when you do like time paradox stories where like you
• 1:24:05
  only go something only happens because the person who had
• 1:24:08
  already affected goes back in time and makes it happen.
• 1:24:11
  Yeah, yeah. And it makes no sense.
• 1:24:12
  Yeah. So in this case, the Shadow
• 1:24:14
  invented the atomic bomb, or at least the name for it.
• 1:24:16
  He named it. And then he's like, he's like,
• 1:24:19
  yeah, the atomic bomb. I bet they'll drop that during,
• 1:24:21
  I don't know, World War 2. And they're like, what?
• 1:24:24
  What? What too?
• 1:24:25
  It hasn't been the first one. What are your powers, Sir?
• 1:24:28
  Explain to me. Well, the monks would explain,
• 1:24:31
  but they're unavailable because they're dead.
• 1:24:35
  Yeah, won't be joining us for the rest of their life.
• 1:24:37
  Yeah, exactly. Did Bridget Tan kill the same
• 1:24:39
  monks or were there different monks?
• 1:24:42
  Same ones, same guys, because he took he took the magic dagger,
• 1:24:45
  he took that with him. He.
• 1:24:47
  Took the magic dagger. OK.
• 1:24:48
  I feel like it's a funny inversion that the villain got
• 1:24:52
  his like powers after the hero, you know what I mean?
• 1:24:56
  Sometimes. A lot of times I'd say that
• 1:24:57
  happens in reverse, where like you establish that there is an
• 1:25:00
  evil force to incentivize the good guy character to develop
• 1:25:05
  powers of their own or something.
• 1:25:07
  I guess sometimes it happens simultaneously, but it's funny
• 1:25:09
  that he went through the same Ave. as the shadow but just
• 1:25:12
  afterwards. Yeah, and he specifically, like
• 1:25:14
  he shows up to recruit the shadow.
• 1:25:17
  He was like, I want to take over the world.
• 1:25:19
  I heard about what a bad dude you used to be.
• 1:25:21
  You should help me because you also have these cool shadow
• 1:25:24
  powers I do. So we should nuke New York City
• 1:25:28
  I guess is step. One and Ricky Tan's powers are
• 1:25:31
  the same, Yes, same, same powers.
• 1:25:34
  You get a superhero. I will say I think in Steel and
• 1:25:39
  in Supergirl, the villains did not have the same powers as the
• 1:25:41
  heroes, so that's nice. No, I yeah, I pointed out in
• 1:25:44
  Supergirl how fun I thought it was that, like, the antagonist
• 1:25:47
  of that film was like a witch. She just had like, magic powers.
• 1:25:51
  So yeah, very different. This one.
• 1:25:53
  Today Meteor Man and Shadow are falling into that very generic
• 1:25:57
  superhero formula where it has to be holding up a mirror and
• 1:26:01
  showing someone using the same power for bad to reinforce that
• 1:26:05
  the Shadow only uses it for good.
• 1:26:07
  Question mark. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:26:09
  And that's how that scene points out.
• 1:26:11
  He's like, I don't I don't think I want to be a bad guy.
• 1:26:14
  I'm kind of a shadow now. I'm kind of doing the shadow
• 1:26:16
  thing. So we're not going to do that.
• 1:26:19
  But then the movie has like nowhere to go from there because
• 1:26:22
  then it's just like he has this bomb.
• 1:26:24
  That's why he like brain controlled Ian McKellen to like
• 1:26:26
  help him finish making his bomb and the shadows just trying to
• 1:26:30
  like find him. So he's doing like the kind of
• 1:26:33
  detective work to like find out where he is.
• 1:26:37
  And it turns out he's in this like giant building in the
• 1:26:40
  center of the city that he's like mind controlled.
• 1:26:43
  The entire city to believe is not there, so they can't see it.
• 1:26:48
  Nice. Yeah.
• 1:26:50
  And so that's how he finds him in the end.
• 1:26:52
  I feel like there's something with Ian McKellen being
• 1:26:56
  colorblind that should have played into like him being able
• 1:26:59
  to accidentally see through shadow illusions.
• 1:27:01
  That's the only avenue I can think of that would make sense
• 1:27:04
  is if we're already just using magic nonsense, we could be
• 1:27:06
  like, well, in order to create the illusion, he has to play
• 1:27:09
  with the refraction of light. But Ian McKellen sees light
• 1:27:12
  differently. And so he could see the outline
• 1:27:14
  of, you know, just something like that.
• 1:27:16
  Yeah, yeah, you're, I mean you're, you're thinking you're
• 1:27:19
  using that old noggin. That would work.
• 1:27:20
  That would maybe work, and then there'd be like 6000 YouTube
• 1:27:24
  thumbnails with red circles on them about how that's not proper
• 1:27:26
  science. And I'd be like, Oh yeah, what
• 1:27:27
  about the rest of the movie? Yeah, exactly.
• 1:27:32
  Like is it a Peter Pan shadow? Is it not?
• 1:27:34
  What are the rules? Why isn't it me and my shadow?
• 1:27:37
  Why isn't it that he has a shadow that is always following
• 1:27:40
  him on the wall but they can like swap places or something?
• 1:27:43
  You know you. Talking about Peter Pan or Alec
• 1:27:45
  Baldwin. Alec Baldwin, the man.
• 1:27:47
  Why doesn't he have a magical shadow he could swap license?
• 1:27:54
  Maybe he does and we just don't know.
• 1:27:56
  He's mind controlling all of us. He's.
• 1:27:58
  In a giant building in the middle of New York City right
• 1:28:00
  now. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:28:02
  But yeah, that so that eventually it it leads to the
• 1:28:06
  confrontation between the two of them and there's like no way for
• 1:28:11
  them to like use their mind control powers against each
• 1:28:14
  other really. So it just winds up being Alec
• 1:28:17
  Baldwin has to like fight the flying dagger again to like beat
• 1:28:21
  Ricky Tan. And he winds up beating him by
• 1:28:25
  like taking control of the dagger and like stabbing Ricky
• 1:28:29
  Tan with it. And then there's a sequence that
• 1:28:33
  follows that where like they run into this like Hall of Mirrors,
• 1:28:39
  like illusion thing. And from what I read, it was
• 1:28:44
  supposed to be a longer sequence because they built this, like,
• 1:28:50
  sound stage where they were going to do a lot of kind of
• 1:28:52
  like practical and visual effects for this kind of
• 1:28:56
  climactic battle sequence at the end between the two where they
• 1:29:00
  were going to be like, using like illusions on each other and
• 1:29:03
  stuff, I believe. But the 1994 Northridge
• 1:29:08
  earthquake destroyed that set. And so, yeah, they had to, I
• 1:29:15
  don't know if if any of it was salvage or they had to rebuild
• 1:29:18
  it, but they weren't able to film it the way that they
• 1:29:22
  originally wanted to. So it winds up just being this
• 1:29:25
  really short awkward sequence where he like defeats him.
• 1:29:31
  And then like the epilogue for Rick Tan's character is that he
• 1:29:35
  like gets put into like a, a mental ward.
• 1:29:40
  Like because like Alec Baldwin has somehow taken away his
• 1:29:46
  shadow powers. And so now like the people in
• 1:29:49
  this mental ward just think he's crazy.
• 1:29:51
  And cuz he's like telling him like, oh, you know, I'm the
• 1:29:54
  descendant of Genghis Khan. And at this point I'm also like,
• 1:29:56
  wait a minute. I don't even understand like
• 1:29:58
  what, what Like who is this? Where did this character even
• 1:30:01
  come from? Because the way he shows up in
• 1:30:03
  the movie at the beginning is he's in like a, he was like
• 1:30:08
  trapped. He was like sealed away.
• 1:30:10
  And and like these like archaeologists like found this
• 1:30:14
  tomb that they release him from. And so I'm like, wait, what?
• 1:30:18
  This character doesn't make any sense either.
• 1:30:19
  Like. Whoa, wait.
• 1:30:20
  He's the he's the descendant of Genghis Khan, but himself had
• 1:30:25
  been entombed for like hundreds of years.
• 1:30:28
  Yeah, exactly. Something like that, two
• 1:30:30
  generations down from. Genghis Khan, they.
• 1:30:32
  Were like, they were like Grandpa Genghis.
• 1:30:35
  I don't want to sit in this tomb.
• 1:30:36
  And they're like, ah, you'll understand when you're older.
• 1:30:40
  Because it's the 1920s, so it's like, yeah, it's like, I, I
• 1:30:43
  mean, how long has it been, really?
• 1:30:45
  Why would you need both? Why wouldn't it just be Genghis
• 1:30:48
  Khan? Yeah, exactly that.
• 1:30:50
  That's what I was thinking by the end too, because then
• 1:30:52
  there's this whole like, that's the whole thing at the end is
• 1:30:54
  like they, they think he's this crazy person because he's saying
• 1:30:58
  all this stuff, but I'm like, wait, but like, that is actually
• 1:31:00
  him. Just just 23andMe this man like.
• 1:31:05
  Yeah, like, so that was very, very confusing and yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:12
  And, and unfortunately lackluster like second-half and
• 1:31:15
  conclusion and then there's not much after that.
• 1:31:17
  It's very much like, you know, we get Alec Baldwin like kissing
• 1:31:22
  his love interest character and then like disappearing off into
• 1:31:25
  the shadows at the end of the movie and then it's just credits
• 1:31:27
  from there. So by the end I was like, oh
• 1:31:30
  man, you were so you were on to something.
• 1:31:33
  You had some really great elements in here throughout this
• 1:31:36
  movie. It just wasn't like it.
• 1:31:39
  It just wasn't able to keep that momentum going all the way
• 1:31:42
  through and be like interesting and exciting all the way
• 1:31:44
  throughout, unfortunately. I will say I don't think you can
• 1:31:48
  get away anymore with the ending of a story being and they got
• 1:31:52
  taken away to an insane asylum. I feel like that used to be more
• 1:31:56
  of a prominent like, you know, akin to just like send them away
• 1:31:59
  to jail where the implication is like where they'll be unfairly
• 1:32:04
  treated and tortured for the rest of their lives.
• 1:32:07
  And I feel like now it's like, wait a minute, shouldn't that
• 1:32:09
  not be what when someone's in hospitals are for?
• 1:32:12
  Well, that feels again like a carryover from like a Batman
• 1:32:15
  thing. It feels like Arkham Asylum.
• 1:32:17
  Exactly where they all deserve it.
• 1:32:20
  But it's like, hold on, mental hospitals are a real place that
• 1:32:23
  are supposed to be helpful. I I think that's almost like
• 1:32:28
  Arkham Asylum in the Batman lore is almost like a character
• 1:32:31
  within itself. It, it's just very much a
• 1:32:33
  prominent location. And I think the idea is they're
• 1:32:36
  trying to rehabilitate those characters, but because it's
• 1:32:39
  just this serial comic storytelling, they just always
• 1:32:43
  get out of Arkham, you know, it's just this cyclical kind of
• 1:32:46
  thing. It it it works in Batman, it
• 1:32:50
  definitely works in. Batman, which is like kind of
• 1:32:54
  all about these exaggerated depictions of what are frankly a
• 1:32:57
  lot of mental illnesses in the shadow.
• 1:33:01
  I guess you'd have to see it. I, I, I have no mental image of
• 1:33:05
  this movie, even after talking about it for a while.
• 1:33:07
  I might have to go see it just to understand the appeal better.
• 1:33:12
  I think even maybe just watching a trailer would probably give us
• 1:33:14
  a stronger sense of what the angle is because it's very
• 1:33:18
  confusing. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:33:20
  And and again, that that is almost the appeal of it.
• 1:33:22
  It is that it's just, it's so like like flying by the seat of
• 1:33:27
  its pants type storytelling, which is fun and chaotic and
• 1:33:31
  interesting from, from like half it's runtime.
• 1:33:34
  But then it just, it's, it Peters out and I was just like,
• 1:33:37
  by the end I was like, Dang, like I wish you'd been, you
• 1:33:40
  know, been able to keep that kind of like, you know, cuz for
• 1:33:44
  like the first like 30 minutes or so, it's like every few
• 1:33:46
  minutes you're getting this new interesting angle on just
• 1:33:51
  everything that's happening. And it's like fun and exciting
• 1:33:56
  and it doesn't completely fizzle out, but it just doesn't have
• 1:34:00
  that so much by the end and kind of feels like it's going through
• 1:34:03
  like similar beats back and forth.
• 1:34:06
  Yeah, I mean, that's probably the most common place for a
• 1:34:09
  script to fall apart is like middle of the second act.
• 1:34:11
  Because you can set up a lot of interesting threads that sort of
• 1:34:14
  write themselves as a story's beginning.
• 1:34:16
  Because you just start with an idea.
• 1:34:18
  And then as soon as you like, pass the halfway point and all
• 1:34:21
  of those disparate threads have to start converging on a
• 1:34:23
  conclusion and people just lose track of them, and then you end
• 1:34:26
  up with nothing. Yeah, which is a shame.
• 1:34:29
  Which is a shame, but there's still a lot to like about this
• 1:34:32
  movie. I was.
• 1:34:33
  I was thoroughly entertained for for a good portion of it.
• 1:34:36
  Well, that's good. Yeah.
• 1:34:38
  And, and I will say this one almost and in a way did have a
• 1:34:44
  Super Nintendo game. Well, hold on, what does that
• 1:34:47
  mean? So from what I read, there was a
• 1:34:52
  there was big plans for this franchise.
• 1:34:54
  This was going to be like the first film in a series.
• 1:34:56
  There was going to be a bunch of like merchandise, tie insurance.
• 1:35:00
  They made a game that was finished but was never released
• 1:35:05
  because of the like horrendously bad box office returns on this
• 1:35:09
  movie. It it just did very poorly
• 1:35:11
  financially. And so all of those bigger plans
• 1:35:15
  for the Shadow were scrapped, but apparently the game was done
• 1:35:18
  and like ready to ship, but they just, they never released it.
• 1:35:21
  So it's it's so somebody has a shadow game somewhere.
• 1:35:25
  Yeah, Shadow the Hedgehog 2005 is what it actually turned into.
• 1:35:30
  Weird, right? How the script included Sonic
• 1:35:32
  the Hedgehog in the 1st place? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:35
  Wow. Well, that's sad.
• 1:35:37
  I was. I thought I was going to have to
• 1:35:38
  get footage for that. I know, I know last like fun bit
• 1:35:43
  of trivia I'll I'll bring in though was so the movie as I
• 1:35:47
  mentioned it had those opening credits and then the ending
• 1:35:50
  credits. The first person that's credited
• 1:35:53
  was the first AD on the movie and it's Louis Despacito, who I
• 1:35:58
  was like that name looks really familiar.
• 1:36:00
  And I looked it up and he has actually been he was the first
• 1:36:03
  idea on this film and and a bunch of films previous, but
• 1:36:07
  he's been the executive producer for essentially every MCU film.
• 1:36:15
  He he's become a big part of like modern superhero film
• 1:36:19
  making. So it's kind of fun to see him.
• 1:36:21
  Yeah, like tied in with this. And then he'd worked on some
• 1:36:24
  like in other roles, like first AD some earlier superhero films
• 1:36:29
  too. So he's been a big part of like
• 1:36:30
  the behind the scenes of of this genre of movies for a while.
• 1:36:35
  So. What you're saying is the Shadow
• 1:36:37
  will return an Avengers doomsday?
• 1:36:40
  He was supposed to. He was supposed to return.
• 1:36:43
  He was supposed to have his old, his whole franchise played out,
• 1:36:46
  but it just didn't. It just didn't happen.
• 1:36:49
  It just nobody liked it. So they're just like it.
• 1:36:53
  No thanks. Hey, Frank, great discussion
• 1:37:01
  about the Shadow and about Meteor Man.
• 1:37:04
  We move now into our final scoring and wrap up.
• 1:37:07
  I guess I will start giving some final thoughts about Meteor Man.
• 1:37:12
  I would say that I like what the movie was going for, but it did
• 1:37:16
  too many things wrong and came together too poorly for me to
• 1:37:20
  give it a good score. I mean, I want to like Meteor
• 1:37:24
  Man because it's kind of a landmark film and had a strong
• 1:37:28
  message, but it was so muddled and genuinely dull to watch that
• 1:37:36
  I don't know. I want to say 3 out of 10 for
• 1:37:40
  Meteor Man Pretty slow movie. I was forgiving towards Steel
• 1:37:47
  last time and some people might think that's crazy and that that
• 1:37:50
  movie's way worse or something. But I found that Steel knew what
• 1:37:53
  it was and stuck the landing of unimpressive landing but they
• 1:37:57
  stuck it, whereas Meteor Man just had no idea what it wanted
• 1:38:02
  to be. And I did see IMDb trivia like
• 1:38:04
  claimed that it's rumoured the movie got rewritten a lot while
• 1:38:07
  it was in production. It just kind of is one of those
• 1:38:10
  like, we lost it, you know, making the movies hard if this
• 1:38:13
  one didn't really work. Oh that makes sense if there was
• 1:38:16
  a ton ton of rewrites for that one.
• 1:38:19
  I think there was, I don't know. I don't know if that ever got
• 1:38:21
  confirmed, but yeah, just didn't work out.
• 1:38:24
  So I'm going to unfortunately. 3 out of 10 for Meteor Man.
• 1:38:29
  Yeah, it didn't. It didn't sound like you had a
• 1:38:31
  very good time watching it. Yeah, and it was hard to find
• 1:38:34
  which should not count against it, but does a little.
• 1:38:37
  But it does, as it turns out. Making me buy a DVDI just own
• 1:38:42
  meteor man now. Good for you.
• 1:38:46
  All right, that was short and sweet, but that's kind of all I
• 1:38:49
  had left about Meteor Man. Over to you.
• 1:38:51
  What a What are your final thoughts on The Shadow?
• 1:38:55
  Gosh, it's so hard to say. This is a really hard one for me
• 1:38:58
  to encapsulate because I was so excited about it like a decent
• 1:39:06
  way into its runtime and I lost excitement over time watching
• 1:39:10
  the movie. So it's hard for me to place it
• 1:39:14
  because I I almost want to score it based on my early impression
• 1:39:19
  of it, which leaves it in a weird place.
• 1:39:23
  So I. I mean, you can't ignore a bad
• 1:39:27
  ending. I mean it's.
• 1:39:28
  Yeah, it's. Quite a detriment if it like
• 1:39:31
  falls apart part way through. I think I'm going to go with a
• 1:39:35
  six out of 10 for the shadow. Six out of. 10 and it could have
• 1:39:40
  been higher. There was just a lot like I, I
• 1:39:44
  really have to give credit to a movie like this, especially in,
• 1:39:48
  in such a tired genre at this point that just does new and
• 1:39:52
  interesting things. And it was, it was pulling from
• 1:39:55
  a lot of previously existing material and, and things I was
• 1:39:58
  very familiar with. But that almost makes it more
• 1:40:01
  impressive that so much of it felt unique.
• 1:40:03
  Because of the way it was like put together and and packaged.
• 1:40:07
  So I, I do, I do give it a lot of credit for that and, and
• 1:40:10
  there was a lot that I appreciated about it.
• 1:40:12
  But yeah, I think, I think 6 out of 10 feels feels right.
• 1:40:15
  Well that means that at the end of episode 2 Frank I have once
• 1:40:19
  again won the episode 2 and O to start our superhero season.
• 1:40:24
  How you feeling 2 episodes in? Are we starting to crack?
• 1:40:29
  Good boss I not. Your boss does that.
• 1:40:35
  Sorry. No, I got a good line up.
• 1:40:40
  I got I, I think the next few I'm looking at here are pretty
• 1:40:44
  strong contenders. So I, I, I think, I think
• 1:40:47
  somebody will like these maybe. Somebody, me, hopefully quite a
• 1:40:51
  listeners. Hopefully that's not you're not.
• 1:40:53
  I'm not the only audience for this.
• 1:40:55
  Yeah, yeah. Jeez, OK, so now we have to pick
• 1:40:58
  our movies for next time and I have to go first because I won
• 1:41:01
  this episode and honestly I wish I didn't have to 'cause I have
• 1:41:05
  some good ideas for forgotten superhero movies.
• 1:41:07
  But they're all 90s films, as we just talked about.
• 1:41:11
  That was the theme of season 1. So I'm wondering if I need to
• 1:41:15
  make more of an effort to avoid doing too many 90s movies in a
• 1:41:18
  row. I don't think so.
• 1:41:19
  This is our show. We can do whatever we want.
• 1:41:21
  This is our show. That's true.
• 1:41:23
  We ain't sold out yet because no one's given us the chance.
• 1:41:28
  We will, though. We.
• 1:41:29
  Will we will whatever you whatever you want.
• 1:41:33
  It's just bad. OK, in that case, I'll go with
• 1:41:41
  one that has been kind of at the top of my list because it is a
• 1:41:45
  superhero movie, but in a much less traditional sense.
• 1:41:49
  Frank, I would like you to watch for next time. 1990 Fives
• 1:41:53
  mechanical violator. Hakaidra.
• 1:41:57
  Oh my goodness, what did you just call me?
• 1:41:59
  Yeah, no, I know, right? It's a Japanese tokusatsu film.
• 1:42:05
  We talked, we we put Power Rangers on the board multiple
• 1:42:07
  times today, and we have an affinity for that kind of
• 1:42:09
  storytelling. Japan has a lot of series in
• 1:42:12
  that style that are not Power Rangers or its original version,
• 1:42:17
  Super Sentai. There's just other things more
• 1:42:19
  like in the style of common writer or something like this.
• 1:42:23
  And to my knowledge mechanical Violator Hakaider was an anti
• 1:42:27
  hero character on ATV series who later got his own spin off movie
• 1:42:32
  where he is the protagonist. Wait, he was an antagonist that
• 1:42:36
  got a spin off movie? He was either a bad guy or like
• 1:42:39
  an anti hero in a larger, you know, Power Rangers esque show
• 1:42:44
  of some kind. OK.
• 1:42:46
  All right. Wait, give me the title one more
• 1:42:48
  time. Mechanical violator Hakaider.
• 1:42:54
  OK, got it. I am likely mispronouncing that
• 1:42:56
  last part. Nah.
• 1:42:58
  Now I got it. You got it.
• 1:43:00
  Anyway, that's yours for next time.
• 1:43:02
  Very much not an American serial superhero movie, but I think the
• 1:43:09
  tokusasu genre pretty much the same, just a different take.
• 1:43:12
  You know, they're still, like, transforming into beings with
• 1:43:16
  superpowers. Yeah.
• 1:43:18
  Oh yeah, totally. And this is, you know, this is
• 1:43:21
  actually not what I was going to pick for you, but I think you're
• 1:43:28
  kind of forcing my hand here into making this a tokasatsu
• 1:43:32
  double feature because I think I have one for you, too.
• 1:43:36
  I mean that episode title will write itself.
• 1:43:38
  That sounds fun. Yes, I am requesting slash
• 1:43:44
  demanding that you watch 1975's the Super Inframan.
• 1:43:51
  The Super Inframan. OK, OK, that's a little bit
• 1:43:56
  easier to spell, yeah. Yeah, I think so.
• 1:44:00
  OK, so a tokasatsu double feature.
• 1:44:02
  This will be interesting because again, we've been talking a lot
• 1:44:05
  about like, comic book storytelling conventions, and
• 1:44:09
  these are not in that same camp at all.
• 1:44:11
  They have their own set of tropes and histories that are
• 1:44:16
  more closely aligned to like a Magical Girl anime than anything
• 1:44:19
  we've talked about so far. Yeah, it's, it's definitely,
• 1:44:24
  we've talked about the broader like umbrella term of tokusatsu,
• 1:44:27
  but this is even like a more specific category underneath
• 1:44:32
  that. So, but they are superheroes.
• 1:44:35
  They're very much superheroes in their own way.
• 1:44:38
  We we said at the beginning, we're not stretching that
• 1:44:40
  definition too much, but this is like a farther end of it that I
• 1:44:44
  think would be interesting to talk about because it is so
• 1:44:46
  different, but ultimately the same kind of story.
• 1:44:48
  So that's exciting. I guess two weeks from now we
• 1:44:51
  will have a tokosatsu double feature where we will likely
• 1:44:55
  mispronounce many a Japanese word and name, and we're already
• 1:44:59
  sorry about it. I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:45:17
  Thank you for listening to today's episode of Meet Your
• 1:45:20
  Double Feature. And Frank, thank you as always
• 1:45:21
  for joining me. First off, please, if you
• 1:45:24
  enjoyed tonight's episode of the show, like it, favorite it,
• 1:45:26
  share it, anything you can do will help us out with expanding
• 1:45:29
  our reach and hopefully giving us the runway to make more
• 1:45:32
  episodes in the future. So appreciate that support.
• 1:45:35
  If you would like to follow us. Frank, do you think you remember
• 1:45:38
  the social handles this time off the top of your head?
• 1:45:41
  Not even a little bit, boss. Not even a little bit.
• 1:45:43
  Not your boss. OK, so you can follow us on
• 1:45:46
  Instagram at Meet Your Double feature.
• 1:45:48
  You can find us on Blue Sky at mydf Pod and newly unveiled
• 1:45:54
  Frank. We now have a letterbox to count
• 1:45:56
  because that's where the kids are, I hear.
• 1:45:59
  Cool. So how do you do?
• 1:46:03
  We have a letterbox to count? It is actually the same username
• 1:46:06
  on there as on Blue Sky, so you can search mydf under score pod.
• 1:46:11
  We will be posting. Essentially, it's a way to keep
• 1:46:13
  track of everything we've talked about on the podcast.
• 1:46:15
  We'll post short written reviews and blurbs to summarize our
• 1:46:18
  findings. We'll have those same ratings
• 1:46:20
  that we give on each episode in there.
• 1:46:22
  Great way to follow our content and we'll occasionally maybe
• 1:46:25
  even write about other movies that have not been covered on
• 1:46:27
  the show if we have time. Fun.
• 1:46:30
  I like it. Neat, Frank anything?
• 1:46:36
  Or just undermine your own advertising like that.
• 1:46:40
  Frank, do you have anything to plug?
• 1:46:41
  I guess we can hit him with the usual.
• 1:46:43
  Frank has a movie coming out on streaming probably sometime this
• 1:46:46
  year, although those details are still pending, called Nate and
• 1:46:48
  Mariah in Venice which he Co produced and was director of
• 1:46:51
  photography on Frank. What is the what's the website
• 1:46:54
  where people can find info about your movie?
• 1:46:55
  It's. Going to be sardonic mp.com and
• 1:47:00
  you can check back in. We'll mention it here as well.
• 1:47:03
  There will be some future updates in the near future it
• 1:47:07
  it's going to be first, first quarter of this year in all
• 1:47:11
  likelihood when it'll be landing on streaming.
• 1:47:13
  So we'll be happy to share that once it does.
• 1:47:15
  Yes, that's why we're talking about it now.
• 1:47:17
  The details are still being finalized, but hopefully even
• 1:47:20
  within the same season 2, we'll be able to formally direct you
• 1:47:24
  to a place where you can watch the movie that Frank's been
• 1:47:26
  working on for years. Very, very exciting.
• 1:47:29
  So please stay tuned to that as well.
• 1:47:31
  I guess that'll do it, Frank. Anything else we need to plug or
• 1:47:34
  are we? Are we good?
• 1:47:38
  Nope, that's it. Bye.
• 1:47:40
  That's it. OK, see you later.
• 1:47:42
  We'll be back in two weeks with our next episode of Meet Your
• 1:47:44
  Double Feature. Coming up next, it's Mechanical
• 1:47:55
  Violator Hakider, followed by Super Inframan on Meet Your
• 1:48:00
  Double feature.