Latest / Romancing the Threshold / The Books That Read You Back

Transcript

The Books That Read You Back · Romancing the Threshold

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the most important questions in a life don't arrive when we are ready for them.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: They don't announce themselves.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: They wait.
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  SPEAKER_01: They sit quietly in a person for years, sometimes decades, before they ever get spoken out loud.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Here's one of them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: When did I write myself off?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: not a crisis not a breakdown just a moment often
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: an ordinary one sitting somewhere you didn't expect when you notice
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: the door you'd assumed was closed was actually a door you closed
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: and you find yourself standing in front of it again wondering
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: if it's really too late or if you only told yourself it was
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: this season we spend a lot of time at thresholds the places where life turns and one
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: of the things i kept finding conversation after conversation is that
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: the stories we reach for the ones we read in private the ones
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: that would make us blush to name tend to show up right at those turning points not
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: as scape as company
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: as a kind of rehearsal for the crossing we are not sure we can make because that's
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: the strange perhaps even magical thing about reading a book can hand you
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: a heroine who's stuck exactly where you're stuck a character who won't make
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: the decision you can't make and somewhere in the
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  SPEAKER_01: The reading does something the thinking couldn't do on its own It lets you meet
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: the thing sideways in a contained place where it's safe enough to actually feel it
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  SPEAKER_01: my guest today lives close to all of this rebecca nelson is getting her master's
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: in literature and she helps run the romance book club at the bookstore where she
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: and i first met which means she stands in a rare spot she reads romance seriously in
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  SPEAKER_01: the academy and behind the counter and she watches up close what it does for
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  SPEAKER_01: the women who walk in looking for it
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  SPEAKER_01: and as you will see and hear what it's done for her what i didn't expect
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: when we sat down was that rebecca would tell me the story of her own crossing and
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: as she talked i started hearing it in the way i hear a novel
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  SPEAKER_01: a woman who'd quietly closed some doors on herself and then at
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: a moment nobody would have scripted began opening them again
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you will let me say it in the way I felt it,
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  SPEAKER_01: it read like a romance,
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  SPEAKER_01: not with another person,
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  SPEAKER_01: but with a part of herself that had refused to write herself off.
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  SPEAKER_01: So pull up a chair.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is Romancing the Threshold.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's begin.
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  SPEAKER_01: All right, Rebecca, how are you doing?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing so good.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to be here.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining me.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for joining me right at, you know, the beginning of your vacation.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: oh man yes i think you've caught me at my most excited
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: because finals have just ended and so now it's like oh i've had this day in between
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: to get the the tiredness out and and now it's pure energy that's great
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: so we were talking before recording so now i think i'm just going to jump in
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit and then we'll follow the other questions but you were talking about um
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: being you know because you were i met you through the bookstore sherwood bookstore
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: for those here in oregon portland area please go check it out i'm gonna do a plug in
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: but that's how i met you because of the bromance book club but
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: as i was telling you i wanted to invite you to the podcast well because first
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: of all you're really nice you're you're maybe maybe maybe like me um
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: so you know may power um but also because i think you stand in
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: a very interesting uh intersection you're doing your masters in literature
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: and you're working at an independent bookstore so you get
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: to see what people are coming in and bringing and asking and looking for
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  SPEAKER_01: and you're you're running some different book clubs as well for the bookstore
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  SPEAKER_00: yes so i think that you you you have like a very different perspective
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: and you were just starting to say and then i was like oh my god i gotta record now
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: before the thought goes away is i was asking you like what are people coming into
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  SPEAKER_01: the bookstore what do you notice from these readers
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: from these potential readers what are they looking for yeah
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  SPEAKER_00: okay i'm so sorry of course as soon as we start recording my dog is asking
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  SPEAKER_00: to go outside and i need to step up really quick and open the door go there i'm
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  SPEAKER_00: so sorry oh the timing is terrible um so coming into
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  SPEAKER_00: the bookstore you know we see all different types of of people you know
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  SPEAKER_00: from all different walks of life and um i would say
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: I would say this isn't my first experience with retail and retail management
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  SPEAKER_00: and things like that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm used to seeing people who come in that...
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  SPEAKER_00: are excited to talk so we get some people that come in that want to have full
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  SPEAKER_00: on conversations others just kind of want to be left alone and like browse
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  SPEAKER_00: and have their quiet moments um some stay you know grab a drink hang out
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  SPEAKER_00: with some books uh and read and
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  SPEAKER_00: then others are they know what title they want they go in and out uh
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  SPEAKER_00: and that's it's all beautiful to see like all so many different um styles of
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  SPEAKER_00: of book buying and interaction um
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  SPEAKER_00: oh my gosh i'm so sorry i feel like i just got thrown off with having to deal with
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  SPEAKER_01: the dog that's okay that's an interruption i mean i guess that's kind of
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: the experience even being in a bookstore like you're probably talking to a customer
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  SPEAKER_01: and in this engaged conversation
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  SPEAKER_01: but something out there catches your attention you got to take care of that and sort
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  SPEAKER_01: of do this thing
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: you want to make sure in a bookstore that everybody is acknowledged and welcomed
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  SPEAKER_00: and taken care of.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I know that for me,
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  SPEAKER_00: I am that person when I go into a store that I just kind of like to ease my way in.
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  SPEAKER_00: I get a little bit of social anxiety sometimes.
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  SPEAKER_00: for me not having somebody to send on me right away is what I prefer and so I try
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  SPEAKER_00: to like I mean obviously I'll welcome people as soon as they come into the store see
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  SPEAKER_00: if there's anything specific in case they want to get that taken care
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  SPEAKER_00: of right away otherwise I'm perfectly fine to just kind of let them walk around and
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: then touch base with them you know periodically to make sure they're still good
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: and I love I absolutely love though when I get to connect with people who
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: are not certain what they want to read and then they're talking about the books that
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: they've like,
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  SPEAKER_00: they last read what they might be in the mood for you know but
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: they're waiting for that book to call to them.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then we just get into this conversation about all these great stories
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  SPEAKER_00: that are out there and what might be good fits I could talk
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  SPEAKER_00: about books forever so
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that
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  SPEAKER_01: I know that it's interesting because as you're describing
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  SPEAKER_01: that I almost could feel like it's almost a little bit of a magical element
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: to be almost it could be the matchmaker between the person what they were desiring
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  SPEAKER_01: to read and maybe your recommendation will point them in the right direction
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: where they they meet the book
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: yes but it also goes both ways there's so many customers that have come in
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  SPEAKER_00: that i've had like taken recommendations from um to add
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: to my eternal like tbr that's going on um
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: but they've had these magical experiences well and
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: so you know there will be titles i read a lot but there's no way
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  SPEAKER_00: that i can read everything um
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  SPEAKER_00: And so to hear what connected for them,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: even if it's a title I have read, like we all connect in different ways, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes I actually want to go back and reread in order to see what it is
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  SPEAKER_00: that they found that I didn't see.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: it's a beautiful back and forth but i love how you describe it as magical
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  SPEAKER_00: because i do feel you know many times that that's what those experiences feel like
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  SPEAKER_00: and i recognize how lucky i am to be able to be in that store and in that position
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  SPEAKER_00: to have those conversations you know and it's a it's
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: a rare i feel like nowadays it's a little bit of a rare feeling because you know
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: thankfully there are a lot more bookstores now but in some ways
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  SPEAKER_01: the social contract has changed a little bit and sometimes you go
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  SPEAKER_01: into places it's kind of quiet and you're just doing your thing but
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  SPEAKER_01: when you are describing that encounter with people who also recommend something
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  SPEAKER_01: to you i'm reminded of um i think it was oh gosh it was four years ago i went into
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  SPEAKER_01: a bookstore in ireland and
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  SPEAKER_01: a big one one of the big ones in dublin
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  SPEAKER_01: so i didn't think i was gonna get anything really personal i was just gonna be
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  SPEAKER_01: on my own but i was searching for specific myths and the woman
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  SPEAKER_01: who helped me i felt like she was kind of like an angel like the books
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  SPEAKER_01: that she recommended to me and i got all of them um really fit what i was looking
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  SPEAKER_01: for and i was so um in the little piece of information she gave me
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  SPEAKER_01: about certain myths that i was looking for i was like oh this just kind
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  SPEAKER_01: of pay you know
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  SPEAKER_01: made the whole pilgrimage to ireland sort of like close in a nice little bow so
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  SPEAKER_01: that encounter with the bookseller was magical to me so i was just
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  SPEAKER_01: as you're telling your story i was like oh yes that feeling is so nice just
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  SPEAKER_00: that feeling of connection and and sometimes i think you know when you walk
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  SPEAKER_00: in you don't you don't know what you need or what you're looking for and
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  SPEAKER_00: then you just find it in the most unexpected ways
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  SPEAKER_01: yeah and how books open up doorways
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  SPEAKER_01: that we don't know you know maybe it was one book you're
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  SPEAKER_01: in another just another realm but it shapes your life yeah
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  SPEAKER_01: yes so with that with that in mind i do want to kind of go back a little bit to
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  SPEAKER_01: the origin here of your origin because the origin of how we met was last fall um
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  SPEAKER_01: the first romance book club at the store yeah which i i was looking
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  SPEAKER_01: for other readers i wanted to be with people who are reading romance and i found out
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  SPEAKER_01: of the book club the day before so i did not read the book
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  SPEAKER_01: i just showed up but you're always so welcoming and it's such a great third space
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  SPEAKER_01: that we need but for yourself what's the thread of your life that led you
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  SPEAKER_01: to this place where you're at getting your masters
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  SPEAKER_01: in literature weaving all your reading and also working at a bookstore
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah it's it's such a strange unexpected culmination of events
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  SPEAKER_00: for me um i won't go back too too far but just even going back you know
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: a few years ago um i had my initial background was in in retail management and
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: then eventually after my divorce i transitioned into real estate
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  SPEAKER_00: which had provided me with connecting one-on-one with clients um
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: using those skills in a different way and it also on
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: a personal level gave me freedom of time in order to make sure that i was
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: at my kids sports as they were growing up so making sure that i was present for all
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: the important things
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: well my boys now my oldest oh my gosh is turning 21 in september
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: and my younger son is um he's turning 19 in a month and then my daughter is going
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: to be turning nine the same next month as well
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: but my boys had been finishing up high school and i would just i felt like
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: at this moment of my life where i had been
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: feeling like I'd been living in survival mode for so long
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: and just feeling like needing to get them to graduation and
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: as they were getting ready to do that they had these nights where they were advising
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: on college and talking about resources and things like that and I went to both
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: of them but it was my younger sons that set me at least on the academic path I had
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Two previous college experiences before and never finished my bachelor's.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: The first time right after I graduated high school, I was too nervous to go very far.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I went to community college for a little bit and I got married very, very young.
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  SPEAKER_00: I got married a week after I turned 20 years old.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I paused my academic career at that point in order to work
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: because we were looking to buy a house and all of those things.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: sometime after my uh after my second son i had gone back to uh university for
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: a bit up until and i'm truncating this like so much so i apologize that's okay
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  SPEAKER_00: i went up until i got divorced and i didn't have the emotional capacity at
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: that point to understand that there were resources or people that i could talk
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: to like maybe i could have paused it in a different way and i just fell off
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: and i stopped going so as i'm in this moment listening
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  SPEAKER_00: to all these amazing resources and the way that academia has changed
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: and knowing my son's going to embark on this like I'm very excited for him and at
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: the same time I felt kind of jealous like man and wistful like I wish
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: that I had finished that for myself I wish I had done those things
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: and you know we think about the way that we make our choices and who we were
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: in those points of times but
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: and i had this moment as i'm sitting there in this this uh media room used to be
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: a library at the school that i actually had graduated high school
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: from ironically he graduated from the same high school thinking like
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: when did i write myself off like i realized that i was the one
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: that was closing these threads and
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: and thinking like is it is it done is it really done and at that point that had um
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: That motivated me to reach out to the university to see like,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: hey, I was here X amount of years ago.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like what, what could look coming back look like?
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  SPEAKER_00: Would you they even want me back?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know how this works.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm first generation, clearly older now.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I was so I was worried.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, why would they take me back?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I like I left, you know, I did all these things like I made these horrible decisions.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And turns out it was a lot easier to
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: than i expected and things just kind of happened in a way
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: that i didn't anticipate i messed up on my fafsa i thought i was going to start in
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: the fall um but apparently i applied for summer
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: so they're like hey we're expecting you in a few weeks
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: and i was like oh my gosh didn't plan on that but okay they're like well
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: if you really want we can move you know i was like no you know what that's okay like
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: let's go ahead and do it this way and so things just kind of started to fall
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: into place and and that's what
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: started the beginning of kind of like the split in in my career and going back
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: into academia um in real estate i had started training agents and
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: and hosting classes and i found i love education so much um i'm also on the
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: the executive board for the hillsborough schools foundation and we do a lot of work
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: in trying to bridge gaps between um funding for
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: things that you know the students and administration and staff need and
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: so I had this amazing experience with helping provide career kits and books in
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: the libraries in like multiple languages the students can really see themselves
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: and what they're reading so all
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: of this academic work really helped me realize how much I love education how much I
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: already knew how much I love literature but I would talk about it all the time and
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: that also impacted
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wanting to go back to school is realizing I have such a passion for these things.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I Why am I not doing something in that field and realizing the other ways
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  SPEAKER_00: that I was limiting myself?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of the origin of going back there.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I'm studying, working on finishing my bachelor's.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was taking 18 credit terms.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: They still had the credits that I had from when I was there before, which was amazing.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I did this kind of mental math,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: figuring out that if I did amount of credits per term,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I could finish with them that year.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what I embarked on was this journey that
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: was very healing in ways that i had not anticipated also challenging
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: and i found myself wanting more and i was still working you know real estate at
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: the time so as i'm you know like finishing up i'm entering into like the summer
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: where i'm doing more open houses things like that and i hear sherwin's gonna have
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: a bookstore that opens and i was on i can't remember whether i was on my way to or
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: from an open house um
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: and i honestly i didn't remember the date that i did this but apparently i was there
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: for the grand opening of the bookstore adam actually okay so it was i was there
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: that day but i stopped by and i remember um i remember buying a lot of stuff
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: or he's like here have this tote bag you know like take it with you and um
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: and it was just such a wonderful conversation and it felt like such
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: a special store now i live in hillsborough it's about 30 minutes from sherwood and
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: so yeah right it's a drive to go out there it's a drive
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: it is but that store the sugar bookstore it's so to use the word
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: that we were using earlier it is there's magic there yeah and every time
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: that i would stop
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: in adam would remember my name would have these great conversations he would
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: remember things that were going on um i love talking to ob
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: and jay like i would find these good books and i would hear about all these events
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: that they're you know we're going to be building out
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: and you know when we we get into adulthood like we have some of our close friends
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: but scheduling always makes things very hard to get together you know
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: and here I was like trying to parent at a lot of kids sports working
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: on you know like finishing up this degree where I'm
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: turning in discussion posts and assignments in stadium seats you know
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: at my kids sports you know things like
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: that determination yeah like i worked you know i going back like i know
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: that not everybody gets to do that and i understood like
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: the honor and i have such gratitude for being able to do this at this point
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: in my life um so yeah i i wanted to make sure like they knew like i'm i'm going
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: to work i'm going to do this i held a 4.0 for the entire like time i worked
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: on finishing my bachelor's and unless i've screwed up yeah i i work hard for for all
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: of these things um but with the bookstore like i wanted that connection
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: that i you know felt like i was missing a little bit and so
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: when we talked about the romance book club I didn't start working for the bookstore
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: until like end of I think it was end of October I think Halloween technically
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: so close to the book club yeah so close to the book club so when I started with
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: the book club I wasn't I wasn't even working for the store it was something
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: that I really wanted to do because I love reading
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: and I love these different categories and so
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: i remember feeling like a little nervous you know going in and especially like
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: with romance like i have i have you know some experience with romance
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: that i was finding especially with this group that i'm like oh man i don't feel
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: as educated in some of these areas
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: possible to feel naive
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: at 40s you know like it was really yeah well i
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: yeah i just want to i just want to pause here because thank you
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: for sharing your story because um the little bit that we've talked at the book club
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: and once you said you were really into reading these heroines who are really badass
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: and kick-ass i was like oh i can see it you did it you you did it yourself you know
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: your whole journey i'm hearing your story and i'm like this is a novel
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know this is a real novel that has the whole like all the parts you know
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: of like like you close the doors you close it and then an opportunity comes you see
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: that you you start opening again
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: you say yes to the the call to adventure
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: to bringing our good friend joseph campbell here but you know a friend of
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: the podcast as they say and you know you opened yourself you face
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: the challenges you showed such great devotion you know
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: to be finishing papers doing you know out there in the field both being present
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: for your kids but also being present for yourself
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know it's quite it's quite the novel it could be
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: a total romanticy novel could be
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: a romance novel i mean i feel like i'm tearing up here just listening
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: to your own story you know it's it's it's been a lot and honestly i kept some of it
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: when i first went back i tried to keep it secret for as long as possible
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: because what business did i have doing this at this age and then also
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: that fear especially when you work of are they going to think that i just want
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: to leave am i going to be cut off from these things you know how are people going
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: to take it and um it hit a point though with my schedule where there was no way
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: that i could do that like i had to to to be up front about these priorities
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: and how things were going to shape and and make other decisions
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: and um i have found nothing but
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: just such beautiful wonderful support from the people in my life and especially
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: for my kids as well especially when it comes to academia I had this moment
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: this um not this spring but last spring when i was finishing up the bachelor's
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: and transitioning where my son you transitioned sorry just to make you transition
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: from like bachelor's to the master's yeah uh when i was finishing up my like
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: as i was working to finish up my bachelor i realized that i didn't want to stop
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: after that i i felt i had finally found a place where i felt at home
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: and that all of these things these you know these pieces of me that loved literature
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: and books like weirdly i did not know a lot of people who enjoy reading yeah
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: i'm not really sure how this happened and so there was the pieces of me
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: that i felt like i kept kind of tucked inside or they knew like everybody
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: who knows me associates books and reading one of the first things
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: that they will associate with me but i'm like like like i think
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: in some ways i'm just that quirky friend that you know loves those things
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: but here i was getting to be in a setting where this was an asset and
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: where people want to know more and where you actually get to explore those passions
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: and i wanted more of that and so i had been when you have to when you make
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: the application for grad school you are doing it
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: depending on which schools you're applying to they can be due at the beginning
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: of december or january and i hadn't been back
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: that long i'd been i had come back summer of 2024 and um i really only had wanted
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: to maybe
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: terms to show quarters to show my grades
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: and like i said you know i worked really really hard and i had gotten a four point
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: for those grades but those decisions i had made in the past and followed
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: and my overall gpa reflected that so you know there's this i wasn't even sure
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: that grad school was a possibility um there was a few universities i talked to
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: where they accepted other grades and and obviously like you you get to to
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: tell a little bit about your experience and you're submitting writing samples
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: and things like that so when i had the opportunity to go to grad school and and for
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: where i'm at as um the university i'm at i was also offered
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: a graduate teaching assistantship which means that i get
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: to teach writing 121 i received tuition remission for for doing work for
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: the university um it was just beyond
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: it was beyond anything i ever could have imagined
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: for myself like i i applied telling myself that
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: if i don't try you know it'll always be the what if and i don't want to do
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: the what ifs anymore in my life like i want to pursue um
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: so i had applied not really thinking
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: anything was going to come of it and and realizing like okay well if it even
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: if it does like what kind of student loan so to be where i'm at right now
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: and having this opportunity not only to go to graduate school and work at
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: a higher level but also to instruct writing 121 get more teaching experience and
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: to have those supports it's just been
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: like it's so incredible it's so incredible and i'm almost like okay this is book two
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: of rebecca's life you know book one
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: and now book two here it is you know you you were given the welcome into the
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: the space into the realm
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I guess like when you,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: you're talking about I haven't necessarily thought about my life too much like as
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: a book or anything like that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: But in some ways, it does make you think about where we meet characters.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And, and sometimes they think that their life is going one way,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: and they're perfectly happy with it.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Others are experiencing loss.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: and don't know where they're turning from there and this moment happens right
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: where they have to make a decision like some don't get
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: that choice some are forced like kind of into that adventure yeah what happens
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: but others do right they get to decide do i want to live my life the same way
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: or am i going to take a risk or am i going to do this or
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: where like what is important and i think that in that respect um
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: maybe my trajectory follows that yeah i mean i mean
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: as you're telling me now you know of course it's very it's kind of compressed for
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: the time that we have and and just picking up i guess i can you know i i that's
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: the work i do i listen to people's stories and i try to see the pattern underneath
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: so part of me is feeling that i'm both interviewing you
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: but almost almost sitting here i
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: i'm sort of i don't want to be your coach but almost i'm like i'm the coach
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: as well i'm the sort of the therapeutic holding the therapeutic space
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: but i can totally see how the little bits you shared you be you're becoming
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: the main character again
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: and it's like a real romance of your own life of like your own abilities of things
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: that you saw were done that you were beyond your age.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know who's going to do this,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: but even the little piece that you shared about you being such a lover of reading.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: and then realize, oh,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: they're all there's a bunch of us out there who love to read
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: and you're meeting them.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like a little bit of a found family and to use the tropes,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know, and the bookstore is a little bit.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that's the only space you're in,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: but it's one of the spaces you're in now that is a third space that is creating
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: a different kind of container and it's bringing a container for you,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: but it's bringing other people like myself.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: that are you know being able to be like oh there are others like us you know yeah
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: and it feels so weird to say that like there's a part
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: of me that's like how do you not know that there's other people
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: that enjoy these things but i think it also depends right on the space that you're
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: in and the people that you're around and and you know if you continue to be
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: in those same pathways like that's what you're going to continue to experience um
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: but it makes me appreciate these spaces so much more the bookstore one
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: of my favorite places
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: to to be um because i feel just similar to being at the university i feel at home
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: and i feel comfortable and i'm excited to walk in every single time that i'm there
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: and to think about am i going to see some
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: of my favorite regulars today is it is it book club day you know thinking about
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: the discussions we're going to have and i absolutely love especially when it's
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: the romance book club day
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: because it's such a group of ladies and the you were talking about
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: the welcoming feeling earlier i think just the place of safety and joy
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: and openness are things that you don't find many other places and i feel like
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: and it's not just that the the romance bit club i do feel like
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: the bookstore embodies that in general and i think everybody deserves to feel
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: that kind of love and safety
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: um so yeah whatever yeah yeah no i'm just thinking here my own experience
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: because i too like started reading romance much later in life i mean i read before
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: but it wasn't ever really my thing i was more non-fiction and
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: then i had my year you know of sort of burnout and i needed to heal and i needed
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: to do that inner work so i i call it my cave year and um
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know and the thing that was my lifeline was all of a sudden reading romance
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: which some of my friends were like um are you okay or do we need
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: an intervention you know
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: the minute i started saying i'm reading orc romances they looked at me
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: a bit like this might be an intervention moment um
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: the first question actually was like
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: the tolkien orcs i'm like no no no they're way sexier much prettier um be okay be
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: okay um
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: but when i i remember looking for the book club
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: because funny enough i myself i'm not good at a book club i've never been
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: to i've never participated in a book club
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: because i don't like people telling me what to read like to read whatever i want
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: to read yeah and but i also wanted to have my own book club because i wanted
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: to have people read whatever they wanted to read so that's a whole different story
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: i figured no i should try to go to a book club because
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: at least i will meet other people who read romance and
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: at this point i feel isolated my friends like to read but not this kind of genre and
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: so i needed to meet other people so i found the bookstore i had been there before
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: and looked online there you guys you had it i was like i'm gonna go
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: and it's like half an hour away from my house but you know off we go yeah yeah
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: because you're not too far from me no no yeah no and you know and you know
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: the traffic at that time of day and um but i went and i remember
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: i remember coming back home
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: and my husband asked me like how was it i was like it was great you know and so now
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: when i go it's very exciting it's one of those like oh things that i wait for um in
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: the month but it's this i what also
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: that you're participating or running.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's an interesting mix, I think, the space of the bookstore.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is to honor both what Adam has created as his bookstore,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: but also the space of a bookstore in the in the collective imagination, if you will.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because to me, a bookstore is like a church.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: i don't go to church but bookstore is my church and and i think it's a space in
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: which each of the books are doorways to other worlds and other possibilities and
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: if you get to meet other people in the bookstore like we're having the opportunity
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: to meet other fellow readers it is even more magical other opportunities really open
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: up and i feel
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: we are so hungry for this and the other thing that a bookstore
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: to me is they are guardians of imagination yeah
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: because the books have to have a place there are doorways to other places but
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: the books themselves need to have a place to come and yes we can buy them online
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: and it's fine the algorithm sometimes will definitely recommend the right book
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: to you you know as we know we have had this experience but there's something
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: that feels like the experience i had in ireland and how you you have with
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: the readers that coming in
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: it touches us in a different way when you feel that
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: when you're being you feel seen yeah and i think this element of feeling seen
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: and recognized which to me is a core value of romancing
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: in general it's this ability i see you and and what i see i value
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: and here it is we need more spaces of that uh and so i think it's a wonderful thing
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: that we we have the opportunity to go yeah no i mean
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: yes when you talk about being seen and that was one of the things
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: that kept bringing me back like i said you know i how many spaces do you go in where
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: the people that work there know your name know what's happening
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: with you know what you like to read enough to
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: where they can recommend something like that in itself is a special interaction um
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: and you do i think develop a trust and a loyalty like so for me i had like
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: a membership a couple members to a different bigger bookstore um
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: that i i actually canceled at that point because i was like this is where i want
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: to spend my time this is where i want
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: to spend my money like i yeah something very very special um i also like want
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: to circle back you use the word guardians and i love that because i think
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: when it comes to knowledge which we get from books whether
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: that be fiction nonfiction and it's not not even the knowledge like where we have
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: to learn something right but just to like be an experience and
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: and live there's still such a heavy element of gatekeeping
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: on what we're allowed to read whose voices are you know even published um
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: and we like and we've seen that even from like
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: a historical perspective right yeah everything is shaped by what we're allowed
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: to see and so for bookstores i think using the word guardians is so important
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: because i feel like good bookstores have that diverse ability like whether i want
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: to go in the romance aisle or go to classics or go literature fiction or you know
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: read that nautical you know bit like we had for trivia
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: and things like having these doorways having these opportunities is so vital and
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: to be able to provide them for people that might not get that experience yeah
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: and allow also the sense of the welcoming is really important because the welcoming
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: it's it starts building
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: the relationship people might not open up they might not even ask the question
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: or even be comfortable enough to go look for what they really want to look for um
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: until they get that sense i mean this is uh beyond the times now but
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: if you remember video rental bookstores right dvd oh yeah sorry like blockbuster
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: yeah but i i remember um
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: well this is when I still lived in Brazil
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: the local rental DVD you know VHS rental I would go to them every week and
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: the guy knew me we would talk about movies and such and so he would recommend this
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: or recommend that and I was like a faithful customer for years
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: and it was great I got to watch a lot of good things but it was that kind of space
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: where you were able to
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: exchange ideas and feel seen and recommend and
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: and it's i miss those places it's not we we lack those spaces now and it's a it's
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: a we need to bring them back yes um i was gonna say well they still exist
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: but i'm like well maybe not blockbuster except in bend yeah except in bend um yeah
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: but but i think
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know i can think of you know restaurants like that right
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: where it's like okay well what do you recommend i trust your decision like just
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: bring me what you think i would like you know stuff like that
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: and what you're describing is this feeling of trust and openness and the ability
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: for us to feel vulnerable in these spaces and that's something
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: that is also i feel like very unique and beautiful um because there's so much
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: that happens around us that
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: would say otherwise right that where we need like feel like we need to keep
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: the guards up and we need to present ourselves a certain way in order
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: to you know make it through like
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: everything's falling apart around
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: and it's like let me just hold it together but when you walk into these spaces
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: and you do feel seen like that and like have you ever walked into that space
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: where you just like feel like everything just kind
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: yeah take that breath and you can slow down and you can savor and you can enjoy
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: for me that's what the sherwood bookstore feels like yeah yeah the ladies
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: at book club feels like
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: all right so let's talk about the romance book club yeah let's do it you sitting on
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: the on the side of like okay we're gonna do a romance book club and um what are some
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: of your impressions now that it's been i don't know how many months now anymore
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: but um how you notice it's uh evolution i guess
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: um well we obviously we started out with fewer fewer ladies and we have continued
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: to expand to where we actually needed name tags like that's such a fun thing
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: to have it grow like that and to see it evolve to
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: where now we have mother-daughter duos coming um you know like and people
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: who don't feel like they have to finish the book to cut like i don't know it's
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: so diverse and it's so beautiful and
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: i think back to when you were referring to a bookstore as like a kind of
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: a church i see romance book club as a kind of communion yes we break pizza together
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: and cupcakes and cookies yeah and things like that and and everybody contributes
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: in some way and that's such a beautiful thing and no like none
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: of our other book clubs at least so far does that it's the only one
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: where we're all bringing stuff to the table
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: we're starting out fed we're having these side conversations and
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: then we come together and it's like okay okay right
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: because now there's there's threads outside of
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: the club there's texts happening outside of club there's meetups happening
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: and it's really just evolved into this beautiful friendship among all
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: of these different women where a month goes by we come back together
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: and it's like okay what is the next quote we're adding on to our metaphorical shirt
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: that needs to be a reality at some point that needs to be
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: a reality it's it's happened it has to happen yes
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: because each perspective is so diverse and beautiful and fun.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we've talked about things like,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: oh gosh, safety and consent and things like that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we've tackled deeper topics.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've examined why it is that we love to read romance.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have fun as well.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: and then i don't you know i mean i don t know like how much
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: like how we're like he can actually save it like
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: like with the ice planet barbarians when it's like
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: that led to some interesting conversations yeah lots of interesting
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: conversations and it's just such a blessing right
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: you can say I feel like that is a space where
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: we have literally said
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: any type of thing in that environment and it's totally fine and even
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: though we've grown so much we still quiet down and make space for everyone to speak
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: and we listen we actively listen right and so yeah it's just it's one
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: of my favorites and you can see what i find very interesting as well
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: because i you know having the unfortunate the
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: i was fortunate to be there in the first one so i can get
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: to see how it's been um evolving it's the different age groups yeah
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: the different levels of experience like you said we have it's really nice
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: to see mother and daughters coming together um
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: and different levels as well
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: of how some are like avid romance readers have been reading forever others are kind
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: of new to it this is all new territory um others are perhaps so you know
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: they're a little bit more shy but that's normal because the group can get
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: a little rowdy and it can be intimidating but i find it interesting just observing
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: the women coming in and then we also have adam now participating
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: which is really interesting um he gets to read and talk about it with us uh and
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: and survive but
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: i think it's so interesting to see how a bit
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: by bit whatever is each one's stories i guess i'm putting on my sort
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: of my therapeutic background i can't help myself i look
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: and i'm always imagining wondering like what's
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: the story here what is this person's story and how does this book activate something
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: in them
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: and i've noticed as well that the books that we chose because we spin
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: the bottle yeah that's how we pick the books right it's so fun it's so fun um is
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: the books that seem to be okay this will be
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: a fluff read this will be you know it's all right it's a it's not
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: a huge book these are the books that render the most lively of conversations and
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just interesting when I look at this from the perspective
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: of what does romance do in activating us?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's an aliveness to it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: i feel granted like i said it's my first book club so i'm not speaking
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: from extensive experience here but i just find that really interesting there's
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: an aliveness there's an activation of things that just make me wonder how is
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: that going to unfurl months from now how are some of these readers i want
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: to see their own evolution even
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: though they may not have shared anything that's private about their own life
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: and journey
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: but i look at them and i'm like curious to see what's their journey as as much
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: as i'm curious about my own journey does that make sense no it totally makes sense
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: and oh my gosh i just have like so many things kind of popping through my head
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: as you were talking i think the first one i and i don't remember which part it was
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: in response to oh my gosh that's like the age i'm getting to
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: but hey welcome oh no what did i want to do
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: but the first thought I have is that it starts with community right and talking
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: about these different you know this diverse group of readers
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: that we have some new some old to romance and things like that
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: but we've all shown up for some kind of community
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: right and i don't remember i don't know if you remember like when we were talking
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: about like hey do we want to continue to this during the summer like at that time
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: when i posed that question i was thinking you know kids are going to be out
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: of school i know people go on vacation like maybe people want to pause in order
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: to not feel that pressure of having to be you know somewhere and if also don't know
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: if you remember like the vehement like how dare i suggest
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: they were shocked like no we are still going
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: and i was like okay like i just you know wanted to be you know conscious of that
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: and ask um but i think that that's a testament to the type
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: of you know group that's evolved right like we're all there
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: for this community we're all there because we enjoy romance um
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: and i think they worked in tandem in different ways like i think of
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: happiness and fulfillment and possibility right and i think um in romance also
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: the unexpected degree like we know romance is coming you know and depending on
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: the trope we might have an idea but these characters don't right
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: and we love reading time and time again how they're surprised
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: by how they didn't expect ginger's their life in just
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: unimagined ways and i think that going through that
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: when we live life
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: in a way
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: where we do experience we're always going to have our bills we might always need
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: to work or take care of the kids or are these different things that we repeat over
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: and over and over again right have a little bit of that unexpected and
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: an unexpected joy
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: yes yes that's the reflection for me when i kind of went into my cave
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: and i found myself the only thing i could read i could do was read
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: the romance it was like medicine and nutrients
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: that i needed i realized something i mean i realized several things but one
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: of them is that the fact that the story ends with
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: a happy ending however that's gonna that we know that's gonna happen yeah
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: we don't know how it's all going to work in the middle and how
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: the characters are going to make that happen um and so even though it's the trope
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: that we love we we kind of know that kind of world but we go on the journey with
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: the characters we do it you know we're just as surprised as they are sometimes
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: but we know it's going to be a happy ending i found myself being able
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: to be more democratic in my reading because it was a
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: the ending was guaranteed i could relax it felt safe so whatever
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: the traumas i was going to face with the character i could still face it
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: because i knew the end i was going to have a sort of a resolution
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: and i think this is the thing i've been thinking a lot
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: about romance it helps us meet change from a perspective of curiosity like i like
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: to say the curiosity of lovers
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: so that's why this idea of like how do we meet change with more of that rather
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: than this what the culture has taught us to be so bracing constantly bracing
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: and i understand that a little pessimism can help us navigate the world
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: but i think what the world needs now is a bit more enchantment remembering
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: that there's other possibilities we don't know the end we don't know
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: But if we can kind of relax a little bit and feel that it's this possibility
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: with my approach,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: whatever is happening in our lives,
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: our difference in approach can actually help the thing that's in that in front of us
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: in our lives move in ways that are different, you know.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to me, that's why romance is such a medicine.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: hidden under sexy covers it's just better dressed you know tragedy can teach us
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of things but i think romance dress is better you know has better sense
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: of fashion you know i think romance can also help us see
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: events or things that we've gone through in a different light
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: as well i think literature in general is fantastic of
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: that like sometimes we're not ready to meet things head-on or we're not ready
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: to maybe we don't even recognize certain facets of ourselves and we get that process
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: of discovery through
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: through reading a good book, through reading
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: a romance. Have you ever read
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: a romance where you're like oh I think
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've been that person? We know
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: somewhere in the middle that they're making some
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: mistake right and this
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: process to
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: happily for now
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: or happily ever after
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: things like
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: vanessacouto
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: but like having that pause and be like oh i think i've been that person
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: or oh i think i dated that person for sure yeah especially when you're telling
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: the like
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: the main character like how dare you like why would you do this why would you
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: forgive these things and be like oh pretty sure yeah or maybe i was that red flag
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: that one time but this is how i know like don't do this don't do this right
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: yeah and sometimes you're reading and you're saying oh my god this is a core issue
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: in my life absolutely and so i think romance is so beautiful like it's
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: a medicine like you say but it's also a like i don't know what the correct word
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: for is it it is but it's self-discovery definitely in
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: a passionate sense i think like it it can unearth so many different things um and
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: the romance is getting to go through that process in a
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: like i guess a contained study like in a private setting to some degree
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: unless you're in book club and then we all talk about it we all sort each other out
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe this is the magic of it because i think that you're raising
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: a good point i think there's something very intimate about reading
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: in general you know
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: For the ancients, reading in silence, it was strange.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't do it.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: You had to read out loud.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's already kind of signaling then that it's an intimate thing
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: that when you read, we don't know what's going on with the reader.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: But even the reader themselves sometimes needs a time to digest what they're reading.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: and i think there's an intimacy with the reading where you're seeing yourself in
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: the characters perhaps something is activating in you because of the story
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: a memory sometimes a trauma and we have to sit with that we sort of digesting it
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: and i more and more i think about when we go through
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: a reading slump it's more like you i think you're digesting you probably read quite
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: a bit and you're needing to just you know you need alka seltzer and you just need
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: to digest but
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you go to a book club this is a different not something many people get
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: to do but when you get to a club
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: where you can really share now it's almost like group therapy to a certain degree
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: where you're sharing your perspective
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: and others perspectives might change your perspective on the story and however deep
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: or safe the group feels allows one to go even deeper then
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: yes and uh that's that's magical exactly oh my god you took it out of my mouth
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: that makes that magic there right and then coming back to the community and being
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: in those spaces with those people that you feel like you can work
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: through those things with or or you know like not being wow
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: as i'm like sitting here trying to form a thought having those half-baked thoughts
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: or not fully formed thoughts and having people
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: let you work through that yes in real time and supporting
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: and asking follow-up questions and you're coming to this together
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: it also makes me think back to you know when we're talking
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: about like reading what we want to read and then like having like kind
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: of being told what to read i think that that maybe can be a benefit though
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: of having those selections made for us um especially during like
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: a reading slump right where we're not really quite sure but like
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: if you've ever had those ones where and i've experienced this at least um at school
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: it's all different kind of therapy right
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: where i have these like assigned readings i have to i have
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: to do these specific ones um and and i'll get through and i'll be like what in
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: the world did i just happened and like i i took um
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: for example this term i took composition theory and i would you think and i've cried
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: so much during this process and in this course because i'm discovering things
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: about myself as a writer and
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: that had been so buried that i had no idea but
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: because i've been given these assigned readings because i've been like
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: when we've had these discussions in classes it's bringing out and i think it's
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: the same with book club can do that sure but oh my gosh sure bob can do
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: that um it will be my first sure bob so i'm coming in it so just for
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: the listener here what's a short explanation of the sure bob because it sounds funny
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: yes sure bob is based off of the oregon battle of the books but it's made for
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: the sherwood bookstore because why should kids have
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: the only fun reading programs adults get it too so it's
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: a trivia book club um six reads different genres um three months to prepare
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: and it's team trivia i think that's maybe
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: the shortest hopefully that's good that's good i mean that's good for me i didn't do
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: that
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: because i signed up for it now i'm like what what have i done oh my gosh but it's
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: so interesting because so like last year it was right the inaugural sure bob
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: and our reads were tender is the flesh um bob
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: the drag queens it was harriet temen live in concert brooke shields is not allowed
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: to get old comfort of crows psalm for the wild built and
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: lost and lassoed i think was the last one and the way that so i knew that we needed
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: to read these ones our group had divided up who was reading what obviously i wanted
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: to read all of them anyway but the way that i had structured my reading or at least
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: the order that i read them in had me with
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: like comfort of crows brook shields and song for the wild bill in a row
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: and all three of these books different genres song for
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: the wild bill is sci-fi fantasy uh brook shields is not allowed to get older is
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: a biography and comfort of crows is non-fiction right all of them dealt
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: with transition and change and different seasons of life
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: and where we're headed identity and belonging all of these things and all
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: of these things were once again like as i'm coming out
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: of finishing up my bachelor's going to pivot
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: into this new section having my two boys become adults all these things like i don't
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: know what i did to myself in structuring all of those together um but i will say
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: that
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: all of these books that i never would have chosen on my own like i had to be told
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: to read these well and select to right i had that agency to say yes or no i'm going
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: to sign up or not sign up and then the this order in
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: which i put them created this like transformational period of time
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: where i really got to wrestle with some of these things that i was experiencing
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: and make sense of it in such a beautiful way and then go compete yes it was enough
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: to win me a trophy
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a wonderful thing you're kind of reframing here for me,
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: because I think a lot of us and I've had several people tell me this,
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: the fact that we had assigned reading in school is one of the things that sort
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: of takes the joy out of reading for a lot of people.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's like it ruined reading for them.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: thankfully it didn't do it for me but i remember after reading
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: so much what i was told to read i was like oh i just i'm a vibe reader i want
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: to read what i'm in the mood for but i i agree with you
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: because sometimes you do have the agency to say yay or nay i you know
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: the last book club that our gathering
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: the book vicious i couldn't do it i couldn't finish it dnfing is so liberating
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: but i think it does allow you to open yourself up to different possibilities and
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: and your example there's great because three genres three different books
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: that you wouldn't think are talking about the same theme you could see
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: the thread yeah and you could wrestle with it yourself things about what was in
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: the book and what was in your life
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: yeah and honestly i probably could have made i mean maybe not tender is the flesh
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: but like a couple of the other ones like lost
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: and lasted i probably could have identified
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: the same things i think my you know my point in talking about that is we sometimes
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: when we we know the genres we like and we stick with those genres and we can get
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: a ton out of out of those genres but i think the benefit of opening ourselves up
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: or feeling like it's been assigned or we need to
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: um and especially in settings like book clubs
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: where you know once again like we're around these people that we enjoy and we know
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: whether we hate or love a book like it's going to be okay
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: to share what we actually think about it it gives us this opportunity for change in
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: a different way we like because i think when we stay in the same genre we kind
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: of can expect a little bit of the change that we're going to go
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: to right like we can carry it yeah and sometimes having a little bit of that loss
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: of control
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: but still in like that once again kind of safe contained setting allows us
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: to take more risks wrestle with things that maybe we wouldn't have um if we stayed
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: in the same lane that we were in so i think that's
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: which i don't know maybe it's weird to think of a sign reading as a way
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: of like here like have this there have this therapy it is yeah right
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: and i think it's i was interesting
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: as you're saying i'm remembering this conversation i have
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: a really good friend who's uh we've been friends for i don't know a couple
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: of decades at this point he's a therapist and i remember him saying this
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: a long time ago confidence um one of the elements of confidence is that
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: when you have a container for it in which like you see a child they can run ahead
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: of you and
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: they can do that because you're behind them sort of as a container
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: if they fall you're there you know you're going to catch them
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: and i think we need more examples of this we need more experiences of this
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: because confidence is not just doing it
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's doing it within the container in which you can feel safe that
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: if you don't finish, if you don't, you can't do it.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Others will be there.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: They will catch you.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: They will help you or something.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: And even in this, it might seem like nothing.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: This experience of a book club where
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: we're being exposed to other read other books other sub genres or other genres
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: that we're like oh i think i'm a little resistant but the element of
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: the group is there with you allows you to go and if like or like me if you want
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: to drop the book you drop it it's okay you know
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: which it was so interesting because i feel like
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: with vicious today there was more like many people struggled with that one with
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: the content and the way that this character was um but it was still i feel like one
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: of our longer conversations yes one of and it led to one of the deeper ones
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: which was interesting it was right spoke like you wouldn't have thought
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: that would have done that um
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: hey if it wasn't for the book club i wouldn't have read uh which is
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: the next one getting my swamp so there you are i i need yes i'm reading
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: that one shortly since we're talking about it next week yeah yeah well at least it's
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: a quick read so you'll you'll be okay i am very curious i had a little bit
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: of adam's thoughts on it um so yeah i'm curious to experience it and see
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: what I'm gonna my money's on it's gonna be a pretty lively meeting the day of
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: that book oh my gosh yes so you as a as a lover of books and other genres
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: that you're reading as well I'm kind of curious what
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: for you what does romance give you romances specifically give you that
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: the other genres don't
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: that's such a great question and i don't like i'll be honest even
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: though i've been thinking about it i don't know that i have a set answer
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: so i'm gonna try and talk it out a little bit um and
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: and see i i think even just taking away the label like or
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: the traditional way we think
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: of romance right like i'm gonna go down this aisle i know
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: that i'm gonna find like bodice rippers and like now contemporary kind
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: of animated like looking covers and things like that i've loved romance and
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: since i was young right in in these stories that i've read growing up um
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: and there's like a feeling of romance to adventure there's a feeling of romance
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: with connecting with a good book and then obviously the romance between
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: between people that that find each other together as they go the first romance
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: that would be qualified in that romance aisle or an adult romance
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: that i ever read was nora robertson's jewels of the sun
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: and i still remember being in that barnes and noble aisle at 18 feeling like
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: because i had a very conservative background
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: or you know experience growing up i'm like do i need a paper bag
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: for this like it does look like look like feeling like oh my gosh what am i doing
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: like i could feel like something is you know different um i think
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: for me romance is hope um
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: that there's something more
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: and i don't know necessarily what that more is um it is
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: a
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: feeling of adventure and belonging because you're discovering these things along
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: the way i always love this like i mean like you were saying earlier i do really love
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: the badass women like i've been on a lady night kicking
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: yes lady night that's it because you've been a lady knight for the last couple
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: of years no i think i've needed to embody that
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe they've you know it's been motivating um for sure to to read some
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: of them um but even just like the quirky like things do not turn out and it's like
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: a kind of a comedy i'm like i can relate to that too like oh man you know
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: but just knowing that um
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: even if you don't know like fully how it's going to end you know
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: that there's good things to be found like you're going to come upon good things and
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: so this is such a like a broken way of answering this i but i feel hopeful
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: and i feel like it helps me
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: become about wow this is like
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: the worst answer ever i don't know i just feel like it helps me become
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: a better person and discover things about myself that's a wonderful answer
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: because i i i really resonate with
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: the hopeful i think i i myself had not even thought of that word but in
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: as you're answering and thinking about my own experience it was hope you know
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: that it felt like a medicine the sense that it's going to be okay you know
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: things work out they're gonna work out why can they not work out
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: when we're constantly sold they
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: that it's all gonna go downhill why can they not go uphill you know
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: and it can work out in different ways
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: as well like i i am divorced i am still not remarried i had opportunities to
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: and i still haven't been able to quite bring myself to there but that doesn't mean
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: that i still don't love love and romance and not thought that
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: i'm going to be okay either way and i think you know seeing some of these women in
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: in romance novels um develop more confidence be able to articulate what they want
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: and step away from what they don't um to be
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: create a sense of honesty with themselves that maybe they haven't had
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: before this process of self-discovery I think is such a vital thing
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: and sometimes that's the romance more than it is in connecting with that person
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: that they end up with yeah of course the monster gotta love the monsters
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: but I think it's a romance with oneself yeah
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: because i guess in some ways we can look at all the characters in the book
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: and be there are different parts of ourselves yeah and so maybe the happy ending
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: that we see in the story it is a union within ourselves of the different parts
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: of ourselves that are split for whatever reason and degree
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: but then it also makes you think of the characters that you don't like or resonate
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: with like so for me i i so dislike when
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: the feminine characters are just like they can't seem to do anything
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_01: for themselves right they need
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: to be rescued they're just you i don't know they can't seem to pull together um and
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: and for me that bothers me so much okay well then why does that bother me
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: because those are things that sometimes bother me about myself when I feel paralyzed
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: or lost or can't make those decisions or
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: like lack these this feeling of resourceful in that moment and
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: so i think what we critique and what we embrace are just as important to keep an eye
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: on um yes and and i think especially the ones that really kind of it makes us cringe
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: or we hate oil really activated i feel those are the ones
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: that will probably give us even juicier answers if we can sit with
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_00: the discomfort yeah for you what's that character what is the character
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: that bothers you most
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: i've i and i funny enough i've read a few more recently that have that kind
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: of character
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: where they're constantly like no i don't deserve love you know i made i've made this
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: mistake in the past yeah and so here's the the other character pledging their love
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: to them and they're like no no i can't i'm shutting down to love and
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: and i can see it's an armoring it's a constant like no no i don't want to give what
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: before from the stories but also perhaps in my own life it was given freely
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: and criticized so now i'm gonna you know close up close the business and and
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: so they're sort of constantly negotiating with themselves in
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: the story will i will i don't know it drives me insane but because i'm impatient
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: with myself
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: When I too go into that sort of like, well, I know I'm not going to do it.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can't make that decision.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a it's sort of a tough therapy to read those books,
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know, but it is a working through myself, you know, to understand.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's just interesting it takes a bit of time maybe a little bit of digestion
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: and this is where being able to talk to somebody else a friend or a book club friend
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: or whatever it might be it is just as potently therapeutic than going to
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: the therapist because sometimes talking about it with another fellow reader
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: who loves this type of stuff they can be there with you as well
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: and sometimes they are sometimes they feel the same things and haven't been able
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: to articulate it right yeah yeah like it's kind of kind of like
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: that example like i was using earlier where i was like how did i not know
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: that there are other people that just love to read as much as i do
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_00: and i put themselves in spaces why didn't i do this like i think it's the kind of
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: the same thing where it's like well how did i not know that there was others
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: that might be feeling like this and
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: if i had shared this like i can have this community sooner
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: yes you know yes yeah but i'm also curious like going back um okay then what is
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: that character that you resonate with the most or that you are most wanting
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: to embody that's a good question um i find myself um
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: well i'm looking at it because
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: the book i just finished this morning i find myself often liking the male characters
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: the the other and perhaps because in my mind and it was a little bit of what i wrote
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: in my thesis which was called the healing power of fluff and in that i was working
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: with romantic comedies and it was the idea was that the the story is like a dream
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: and it's guiding you through it
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: but also sometimes the other and in this case was a male character is kind of like
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_01: the torchbearer for the journey of the heroine to reclaim aspects
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: of her own feminine self aspects of herself really and so i think i do i really like
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: and resonate with characters that have um a grounding devotion
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: that they are they show up they're not um
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_01: exaggerated they're just a sense of like measured loyalty almost
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: a devotion they show up they're there they listen they acknowledge they they know
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_01: to say when they're i'm sorry when they're wrong
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: but i i really appreciate those characters that have
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_01: that element more recently i re-watched pride and prejudice which was one
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: of my favorites and
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_01: which version i have to ask oh i i i love both i like the calling first
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: but i really like the movie with akira knightley because
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: i love mr darcy still one of my favorite characters but i think it's because in
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: the movie we have a sense of his interior self even
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: though he's not telling us what he's feeling it's much more internal performance
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: calling forth i think shows us the social constraints of the time and
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: the lake scene yes of course the lake scene right that goes without saying but hey
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: in the movie there's a hand flex and that's that is a whole cosmos in itself
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: but i appreciate i was telling my husband because i made him watch it
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: with me is what i appreciate about darcy is the sense
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: of he learns he learns he's able to acknowledge he's he's able to say i'm sorry and
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_01: when he does the right thing he does it in a way that isn't like hey look
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: at me i did it you know you gotta now applaud me he actually wants to keep it
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_01: down low and quiet and I think it's it speaks to me a Saturnian kind
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_01: of love it is serious it is not all song and dance but it's present and I appreciate
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: that so those tend to be my favorite characters because when I wrote my thesis
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_01: in doing that process I kind of realized that there are a lot of qualities
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: about Darcy that I have
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: right or wrong exaggerated or not but it was always interesting to see how
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_01: the characters that you love that really resonate with you can are speaking
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: to qualities of yourself that you have perhaps even if in in a seed form but
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: that they can actually blossom so if we follow those characters
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the whole idea of the book Boyfriend fascinates me
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's something about that crush over a fictional character
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Which isn't too far from a crush on an actor or a singer Is
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_01: that those characters can actually serve as motivation for us to improve,
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_01: to grow They don't have to be static
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know what is it about those characters that motivate so i think for me it's
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: that i mean can i show up to the things i'm saying i want
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_01: to show up can i be disciplined can i you know that kind of thing so i hope
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_01: that makes sense does make sense so well we're coming up on time here so before i go
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: into our rapid fire questions um that i told you about um
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_01: is there anything okay here's a question that actually I wonder about this
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: if you were to approach someone speak to romance someone
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: who doesn't read romance what would you say about romance oh I maybe
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_01: to help them like hey maybe you can read these books oh boy that's I feel such
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: a loaded question I think
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: romance some of the first things i'm so used to like statistics
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit right like romance is one of the top selling genres that doesn't know
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_00: that it deserves maybe what i would say would be some of the things we've talked
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_00: about like how it how it's vital in that process of self-discovery um and
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: a beautiful sense of hope and belonging and i i
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_00: i think that romance is present like whether you want to look at the
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_00: the strict category of romance or look at the way that romance transcends genre
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: into literary fiction and science fiction fantasy
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_00: and nonfiction it's present everywhere right um it's it's growth and it's love and
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_00: so depending on maybe what they'd like to read maybe i would suggest a title that in
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_00: the genre of their preference that involves romance
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_00: and then challenge them to up that ante
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_00: and be like okay well you know you have this here's something within that this
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_00: the traditional category of romance that takes that and elevates it to
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_00: the next level right um i don't know
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_00: that i would do it just i hope i would do it better justice no i think i mean
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: of course you have to read the room so it would depend on how
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_01: the person is showing up how open or closed they are but i think
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: there's romance for everyone you know if there were more closed to it
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: then something like pride and prejudice you know would be a great soft i'm really
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: into this book um from emma brody into the blue i absolutely loved that one came out
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_00: within the last month um that's a beautiful love story that's literary fiction
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_00: that i would suggest to people um within romance and
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_00: for sense of possibility and once again if they're not wanting a lot
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_00: of spice uh i think it's the the road the road to elsewhere the train
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_01: to elsewhere oh i know the cover it's a beautiful cover it's
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: a beautiful cover like something like that and then you know like
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_00: if somebody wanted funny quirky the unhoneymooners from
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_00: from christina lauren is one i love to recommend or gosh
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know like why a i'm still a lover of holly black's
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_00: the cruel prince series i absolutely love the character of june duarte
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_00: and uh yeah i mean i don't know like it would depend on who i'm talking to
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_00: but i think i would hope that i would be able to ask some questions get to know them
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit and what might fit with either their life their style their life
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_00: because i think yeah like if you're lucky you encounter the right book at
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_00: the right time
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: recommendations are weighty I really do try to think about how that will pair
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: so it does feel like individual to some degree you said two things that made me
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_01: pop pop up two things in my mind books do show up in our lives at
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: the right time it's almost like a relationship in and of itself right you read
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_01: the book at the right time like this book i just finished i bought it last year
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_01: when i went to edinburgh to the romance bookstore that i've told you about
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_01: and only now did i read it a year later and i read it at the right time so it's
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_01: a kind of like a relationship
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_01: the other thing you said there is oh now it escaped me oh perimenopause I'm
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_00: glad I'm
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_01: not the one that had that moment no the brain fog is real
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_01: the struggle is real it's oh it's escaped for me
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_01: oh recommendations the thing I have
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: with recommendations is I feel it's an opportunity of being seen and recognized
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: being recognized and of course it's difficult so oftentimes you don't know
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_01: the person but there's an ability of being seen and i find that
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_01: when people just throw away recommendations as like oh you got to read this
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_01: because this is all over it's no you're not seeing me you know and i think
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_01: it's difficult because but it's so wonderful when the person is able to it's like
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_01: a sixth sense picks picks up picks it up and see something in you and they recommend
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_01: the right thing yeah it's like that's what i was saying it's it's kind of magic
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_01: because there's it's like you felt seen yeah and so that's that's a gift that's
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_00: a gift i'd also like to say three reads can hit you
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_00: at the right moment as well like i think jane austen's persuasion was
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_01: that yeah another wonderful one another oh
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_00: so good yeah i feel like good people either love or hate that one
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_00: but it's actually one probably like my favorite
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_01: of hers yeah i and i'm still i'm still pride
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_01: and prejudice that's probably my yeah i could not argue that that's
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_01: the thing um okay so you're ready for some rapid fire i hope so so
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_01: the idea here is just answer with your gut don't overthink it um okay
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_01: so i think you touched on this one already but
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: the first romance novel you remember reading
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_00: yes strict romance novel i remember reading um or traditional like in
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_00: that aisle was jewels of a sun norah roberts norah roberts yeah a romance novel
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_01: that belongs on a syllabus and the course
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_01: that you would teach it oh my gosh
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_00: yeah that's so hard i i will say the
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: the two that immediately came to mind were pride and prejudice
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_00: in jane ear i was very lucky to take
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_00: a course dedicated to jane austen's novels which was amazing jane air i'm like well maybe
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I need to wonder what's wrong with me but I love me some gothic romances that are complex
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: it is a complex one for sure it is a complex one um and i've been dying to take
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_00: a class or have maybe teach something that would be all brontes just
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_01: because just gothic complexity the gothic and i think it fits i think it fits
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_01: the times now actually yeah
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_01: what is a trope in romance that you would defend in front of
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_01: a thesis committee committee
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_01: to lovers hands down yeah i don't know what what would be your thesis statement
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_00: about enemies to lovers oh my gosh you know how long it takes me
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_00: to create thesis statements let's i don't even know that i can answer
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_00: that one i mean i i
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_00: i would be more like to i don't know i can't say thesis but i will say that
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_00: the theme of the theme i'm mentioning minus the norah roberts
• 1:24:01
  SPEAKER_00: because i don't think it was enemies to lovers in there
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_00: but like i really like there's something about clashing that i find fascinating and
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: the way that we address that and face that i think i think of the tropes is
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_01: the most alchemical one because it's so
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_01: you start with an opposition of sorts yeah and i love that you bring it to
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_01: a union i'm just like show me the how that's gonna work out right it's
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_00: the i don't remember which book i was talking about to someone
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_00: where i was like i think there's something wrong
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_00: with me like i think like am i allowed to curse
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_00: in this i don't know go ahead yeah you can okay i'm
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was at I had gone hiking with a couple of my friends and I was talking
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_00: to them about one of the books and I can't remember which one it was
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_00: and I was like you know I feel like there's something very wrong
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_00: with me like they've gotten to the spot where they're hate fucking and I'm not
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_00: against it and then I started to try and like understand what what is broken in me
• 1:25:02
  SPEAKER_00: but there's something about the clash I don't know
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_00: so my thesis would probably be something about why there is this like need to
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_00: have it be like have there be more obstacles like is this something like is it
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_00: the people pleasing like what what is what kind of personality like
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_00: and i would use it as a way to try and understand myself like that would be
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_00: the entire purpose i'm basically doing therapy for myself absolutely and you use
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_01: the image of what is broken
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_01: with me you know about me and when you said it it made me think about what if
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_01: the thing that is so-called broken in us is where actually what is really wanting
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_01: to come out from us yeah is the crack in
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_00: which is can it can come out yeah strength maybe that's what comes
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: to mind is wanting to be stronger and i guess that ties with
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_00: the lady knights i don't know how that translates necessarily to
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_00: like not liking somebody but then having that turn into like i don't know i'd have
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_00: to think about that a little bit more but yeah i think it's an idea
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_01: because it's interesting how we so quickly are able
• 1:26:17
  SPEAKER_01: to judge ourselves something is broken in us yeah and what if what if that thing
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_01: that it's broken is actually the crack in
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_01: which whatever has been repressed pressed down hidden put aside now gets
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_01: to start coming out
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_00: or a way we deflect too
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_00: because like you know like saying it it's definitely something
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_00: where it doesn't feel like it should be something that i should like right
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_00: or find interesting yeah maybe it's also a mode of deflection where they need
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_00: to be stronger about owning those things that i find interesting yeah that's
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_01: a good one um okay i you kind of touched on this one but let's say if somebody comes
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_01: to you and they say i don't read romance period
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: which is one romance you might be like no no give this one a go oh man
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_00: that it's once again it's needing to be able to assess who this person is
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_00: so it would have underlying characters um i i always think funny first so
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_00: the first one that comes to mind is because i've mentioned it earlier in this one is
• 1:27:31
  SPEAKER_00: the undemooners from
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_00: christina lauren um just because it's just so fun i don't know
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah there's like there's probably a better one no but this is the one
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_01: that came out now yeah and i agree with you i think there's something it breaks
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_01: a barrier if it's funny maybe it's a way to break the barrier yeah
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_01: okay you're doing good last one okay so i named the podcast romancing
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: the threshold yes so when you hear that what does that mean
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_01: to you
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_00: well i think rush i mean thresholds are meant to be crossed right it's a it's
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_00: a it's a doorway between two different places and making that decision
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_00: whether you want to cross over that or not
• 1:28:20
  SPEAKER_00: so romancing the threshold i think involves some of the self-discovery
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_00: that we've been talking about and assessing what aligns most was most with us
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_00: and i would like to think at least for myself that that means crossing
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_00: that threshold and embracing what comes next and if it's unknown
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_01: yeah yeah thank you uh it's just i love hearing how people reflect on
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_01: the name you know i know what it means to me but
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_01: the more i hear people's reflection it's like oh okay i get different parts
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_01: of it open up for me as well so that's great and it can all be true at
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_00: the same time you know at the same time
• 1:28:58
  SPEAKER_01: so rebecca thank you so much for joining us and um i'll be seeing you next week at
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_01: the romance book club yes um a swap needs to be discussed yes get a nice swap it's
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_00: a it's a director it's the next one it's an interesting read i don't want
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_00: to give my opinion right now because we haven't read it yeah
• 1:29:23
  SPEAKER_01: but uh but this was really nice and uh your story your story
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: as you shared is very inspiring it's a romance in itself you're
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_01: the main character you're the lady knight character so
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_01: you're doing and you got
• 1:29:43
  SPEAKER_01: the name rebecca like sounds good sounds like a good name um
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_01: so i'll be seeing you next week that sounds great
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I want to leave you with a question.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not to answer right now,
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_01: just to carry with you the way you'd carry a book you're not finished with.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_01: When did you write yourself off?
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Most of us have a moment like that somewhere behind us.
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's rarely loud.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's rarely a decision that we'd even recognize as one at the time.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_01: we're sitting somewhere ordinary and a thought arrives quietly
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_01: and reasonable ah that's not for me not anymore maybe it never was
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_01: and we believe it we close the door so gently we forget our own hand was on it
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_01: but here's the thing about a door you close yourself you're also the one
• 1:30:48
  SPEAKER_01: who can stand in front of it
• 1:30:50
  SPEAKER_01: again so that's what i would ask you to sit with
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_01: where did you quietly decide something was finished a path a version of yourself
• 1:31:05
  SPEAKER_01: a want you talked yourself out of and what would it take to ask
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_01: the braver question not is it too late but did i only tell myself it was
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to do anything with that today Just let it keep you company for a
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_01: while The good questions tend to wait for us If something
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_01: in this conversation found you,
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_01: tell me Leave a comment or a review wherever you listen to this podcast
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or send this episode to the one person you were thinking of
• 1:31:42
  SPEAKER_01: while you listened They will find it because you sent it,
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_01: not because of an algorithm
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_01: you can find my writing at vanessacouto.substack.com and everything else
• 1:31:56
  SPEAKER_01: at vanessacouto.com until next time