Latest / Karl and Crew / A Mother's Hope Through Grief with Laura Busse; Hope Through Infidelity with Jill Savage; and Hope in the Conflict with Lana Silk

Transcript

A Mother's Hope Through Grief with Laura Busse; Hope Through Infidelity with Jill Savage; and Hope in the Conflict with Lana Silk · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
• 0:05
  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
• 0:15
  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: Lord, we thank you that you are so much greater
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  S2: that there's no force, no person, no power that can
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  S2: stand against you, our great God.
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  S3: Satan has blinded the minds of the unbeliever, but Jesus
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  S3: gives sight to the blind.
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  S4: I came born with revenge, but then I became born again.
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  S4: And I want people to know God's love.
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  S1: I want you to get a vision for what it
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  S1: is to be a disciple of Christ. Making your life
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  S1: not a cul de sac, but a conduit of truth
• 0:47
  S1: and hope and love. Now, from the call of Hope Studios,
• 0:52
  S1: this is Carl and crew. Okay, what are those funny
• 0:56
  S1: things you put hope in that you put way too
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  S1: much hope in. And you look back and you go, huh?
• 1:02
  S1: Put open that boy. And these could be little things.
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  S1: They can be big things. They can be a weather
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  S1: forecast for an outdoor event.
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  S5: That was I was thinking of. Yes.
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  S1: You were thinking that way.
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  S5: I was to.
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  S1: A weather forecast for an outdoor event. I got my
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  S1: hope in this.
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  S5: It's gonna work.
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  S3: Oh, yeah. Big deal.
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  S1: It can be in years past. Not last year, but
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  S1: it can be. The bears in the fourth quarter. Could
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  S1: be that.
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  S3: Last year was a good year for it to have
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  S3: hope for bears.
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  S1: That's why I said previous years. Jonathan. Man if I
• 1:38
  S1: misrepresent the bears he is the bear advocate around here.
• 1:42
  S3: I jump on.
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  S1: It. Okay, got another one. This shortcut will save you
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  S1: 20 minutes.
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  S3: Oh, that's a good one.
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  S2: Life hacks.
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  S1: Oh, I got a really funny one for you. You
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  S1: ever put your hope in this? A picture of a
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  S1: hotel online?
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  S5: The brochure.
• 2:00
  S3: The pictures look immaculate.
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  S5: How about a Google review of a restaurant? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
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  S5: Nice one. Okay. All right. Okay.
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  S1: I got another one for you. A ten minute home
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  S1: repair video.
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  S3: Oh my goodness. I've got a really funny story on
• 2:18
  S3: that one. Can I share it? Let's hear it. Okay,
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  S3: so my dad used to I mean, he still does,
• 2:23
  S3: but whenever he fixes something, he pulls up a YouTube
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  S3: tutorial on how to fix it. And one thing was
• 2:27
  S3: on his truck he was fixing, I think, like the
• 2:30
  S3: brake lights on his truck. And, and he was going
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  S3: through this tutorial about how to, how to mess with
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  S3: these or change them out or whatever he was doing.
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  S3: And the guy was like, and you got to take
• 2:40
  S3: this apart and do this. And my dad's following along
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  S3: in the video, he's doing all of it. And he goes,
• 2:45
  S3: and then you just got to do this a little bit.
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  S3: And he goes, hold on. And he, the guy in
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  S3: the video is taking time. And he goes, hold on
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  S3: one second. And it cuts to black. And then it
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  S3: comes back and the guy's like, I couldn't figure it out.
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  S3: So I took it to the shop and I fixed it.
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  S3: And my dad's like, my dad's like, I've got the.
• 3:01
  S5: Car.
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  S3: Apart. So he's like, why did you post the video?
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  S3: It's why I'm sitting here with a broken truck and
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  S3: you don't have the end of the video. And so
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  S3: my dad's like, I always watch the whole video now.
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  S5: That's all I've ever heard.
• 3:15
  S3: My dad's like, I always watch the whole video now
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  S3: before I fix anything on my truck.
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  S5: Okay. Wow.
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  S1: Other things you put hope in too much. How about
• 3:23
  S1: this one? The gas station bathroom on a road trip?
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  S3: I never put open that, man.
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  S5: I'm not going to. Yeah, that's. Well, you hope that
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  S5: quarter of tank gets you where he needs to go
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  S5: before you run out of gas.
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  S3: Oh, my God.
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  S1: How about this one? One size fits all.
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  S3: Yeah, right. That's not a thing. It doesn't exist.
• 3:39
  S1: No, it doesn't exist. How about your phone? When it's
• 3:42
  S1: at 2% battery, you get in that thing.
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  S3: Can it hold on just a little.
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  S1: Long, baby? Hang on. By the way, have you guys
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  S1: had this phenomenon? I don't know.
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  S3: With.
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  S1: What low amperage or what have you ever plugged into
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  S1: a source like a C connector for your phone. Yeah.
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  S1: And it takes battery away from you. Doesn't give it
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  S1: to you.
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  S3: I like it. Your battery just continues to drain.
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  S1: Yeah. It goes down.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S1: I've had that says it's charging but you can see
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  S1: it ticking down.
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  S3: I have.
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  S1: Draining.
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  S3: It. Yes. It's usually the the like the plug in
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  S3: adapter thing that you're using doesn't have a sufficient power
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  S3: supply to keep whatever you're trying to charge going or
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  S3: you're overcharging off of one spot. Yes, I have seen
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  S3: that before.
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  S5: Or charging.
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  S4: Something.
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  S5: Else.
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  S4: With your phone.
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  S5: Right.
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  S2: Or you bought your charger at a gas station.
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  S3: That too. That also is accurate.
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  S5: Oh.
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  S1: Here's another thing. You put your. Here's another thing you
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  S1: put your hope in. I'll remember where I parked.
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  S5: Yeah, well.
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  S3: Take a picture. Write a note.
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  S5: Down.
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  S1: Now check the entrance. Okay. We're coming into the stadium
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  S1: in the D gate. Don't forget the D gate D five.
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  S3: Everybody, do.
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  S1: You for these parking garages. This is the purple level.
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  S5: Yep. I love it when they have.
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  S2: Not just like the. Some of them will have um,
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  S2: like a musical artist that's playing.
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  S3: Yes.
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  S5: Yeah, absolutely.
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  S2: Hospitals downtown here in Chicago do that.
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  S5: Yeah.
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  S2: You'd be like Frank Sinatra.
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  S3: Yes. Or you, you go to Six Flags and you're like,
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  S3: we're parked over in the Marvin Martian area. We're parked
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  S3: over by Marvin Martian. Everybody remembers.
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  S1: Well, see, they're trying to get creative because it's smart.
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  S5: It's a good idea. Yeah.
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  S1: I mean, I've wandered around parking lots before.
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  S2: Oh, yeah. And then you're pressing the alarm on your car.
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  S1: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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  S5: There I am, there I am.
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  S2: And it gets a little embarrassing because people know what
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  S2: you're doing.
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  S6: Oh. That's funny. Uh.
• 5:35
  S1: The leftovers you've been thinking about all day, and then you.
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  S1: Somebody ate them.
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  S3: Oh, that is the worst.
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  S2: That gets dicey.
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  S5: No.
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  S3: Do you feel like your whole day is ruined at
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  S3: that point?
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  S2: Are you in a family that claims leftovers? Like where
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  S2: people put dibs on things in the fridge?
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  S5: My leftovers.
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  S2: Like outraged?
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  S3: No, not so much.
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  S1: Well, you guys.
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  S3: I do silent dibs. I don't tell anybody that I've
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  S3: done dibs.
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  S1: You guys all have more than two people. It's just
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  S1: me and my bride to get upset with an even
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  S1: split on my stuff.
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  S5: You're good.
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  S6: Oh, goodness.
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  S5: How about waiting for that package that says out for
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  S5: delivery for, like, four days? Oh, man. I'm like, where
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  S5: is it?
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  S3: I've done that a couple times, except I'm the perpetrator
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  S3: with the leftovers. Like I grab like a thing of
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  S3: mac and cheese out and my wife texts me and
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  S3: she's like, I was gonna give that to your daughter
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  S3: today for lunch. Where is it? And I was like,
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  S3: I was hungry and I ate it. I'm sorry about that.
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  S1: Busted.
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  S3: Yeah. You get busted.
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  S1: Dad got into the refrigerator.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S1: Oh my goodness.
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  S5: That's a good one.
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  S1: By the way. Some of the food these kids eat
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  S1: now are really tasty.
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  S3: Yes they are. And that's the problem is I sit
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  S3: around with all this tasty food that it's not for me.
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  S2: You've been tasting your granddaughter's food.
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  S1: I had a little nibble.
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  S2: What was. What was she eating? You and baby Kate.
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  S1: Well, there's this this, uh, uh, fruit smoothie stuff that
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  S1: you scoop up and, you know, soft food type stuff. It's.
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  S1: She's past that now, but there was some, uh, non-sweetened,
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  S1: you know, good quality stuff.
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  S3: Fruit pack things. Yeah. Really good.
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  S1: Man. That's like good stuff.
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  S2: I really like the little pouches, the little applesauce or
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  S2: blended fruit pouches.
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  S3: Yes, they're really good.
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  S2: Oh, you just take the top off.
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  S3: It feels weird eating baby food because it's it's like.
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  S2: Texas.
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  S3: But it's applesauce. It's blended fruit. It's all it is.
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  S3: It's just fruit smoothie.
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  S2: Good little snack during the show. Little squeezable applesauce, no spills.
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  S1: So what's the point in this? Put your hope in God, guys.
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  S1: You gotta put your hope right there in God. Central
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  S1: passage today. Romans five one through five. Check it out.
• 7:45
  S1: You might might not be a laughing matter. You need endurance.
• 7:49
  S1: God's got that for you to.
• 7:51
  S7: Take your next step with Jesus. Today.
• 7:54
  S2: We live boldly for Christ and trust that there are
• 7:57
  S2: people who will see life.
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  S7: You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 8:02
  S1: You know, there's situations that come along in life that
• 8:05
  S1: blindside you and put the promises of God to the test,
• 8:08
  S1: like maybe nothing else can ever do. And we've got
• 8:12
  S1: a guest right now, Laura Bussey, who has gone through
• 8:15
  S1: something that is unimaginable. Laura. I can't even go there
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  S1: with you. It's hard. Sister. What happened when you heard
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  S1: about your son Evan taking his own life?
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  S8: Oh, it was the worst news any parent could ever hear.
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  S8: I was shaken to the core. I knew immediately that
• 8:39
  S8: I needed to call a friend. To think for me,
• 8:43
  S8: to help me. Uh, it was devastating. My whole world changed.
• 8:48
  S8: I often think of it as an earthquake. I had
• 8:51
  S8: life with Evan on earth. And then hearing that news,
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  S8: I have spent the rest of the last almost six
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  S8: years with Evan in heaven, and I've been in a
• 9:02
  S8: dark valley, learning and praying and seeking the Lord.
• 9:07
  S2: Laura Bussey with us this morning. She's an author, speaker,
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  S2: grief coach, founder of grief and Hope, a ministry devoted
• 9:13
  S2: to helping others navigate loss and rediscover hope and healing.
• 9:17
  S2: You know, you talk about in this book, the unimaginable,
• 9:20
  S2: some of the questions that when sorrow, when tragedy, when
• 9:25
  S2: unexpected loss, there's some questions that feel inescapable. The one
• 9:30
  S2: of the biggest ones. God, why did you allow this?
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  S2: Was that one of the first questions that you had
• 9:36
  S2: to sort of grapple with?
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  S8: Yes, it was my first emotion was anger towards God.
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  S8: I had done prayer circles around every school and workplace
• 9:47
  S8: that Evan had attended, and I had seen God work
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  S8: miracles and helping my son. Year after year, time after time.
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  S8: So this didn't make sense. And I wasn't angry at Evan.
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  S8: I took all my anger and I pointed it towards God,
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  S8: and it was wrestling with God and crying out to God,
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  S8: just like David does in the Psalms. And Jesus did
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  S8: from the cross, that it actually drew me closer, closer
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  S8: to God because I realized God can handle it. And
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  S8: he gave us the emotion of anger, and he allows
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  S8: us to ask questions.
• 10:24
  S1: You know, Laura, it seems like I'm just trying to
• 10:27
  S1: put myself there and haven't been a pastor for now,
• 10:30
  S1: for decades. I've seen this go two ways two directions.
• 10:35
  S1: This either drives people far away from God or into
• 10:38
  S1: his arms, and there seems to be very little middle ground.
• 10:41
  S1: I'm not saying it's easy to go into his arms
• 10:43
  S1: or it's easy to walk away, but I'm saying ultimately
• 10:47
  S1: this is a dividing line, isn't it, of faith?
• 10:50
  S8: 100%. Yes, I counsel people now, and I would say
• 10:55
  S8: a majority of the people I walk with in the
• 10:57
  S8: darkest valley have pushed God away. They don't want to pray.
• 11:01
  S8: They don't want to go to church. They don't want
• 11:03
  S8: to sing hymns or songs or praise. And just little
• 11:07
  S8: by little, we take steps in the direction of what
• 11:11
  S8: is true, what is right, what is pure, what is praiseworthy.
• 11:16
  S8: And over time I have seen people move again, like
• 11:20
  S8: waking up to their faith. Oftentimes it's dismantled and then
• 11:25
  S8: it's rebuilt even stronger, I hope stronger than it was before.
• 11:30
  S2: You mentioned the initial emotion of anger, but there were others.
• 11:36
  S2: There was the self-blame, the guilt, the regret, even the loneliness.
• 11:41
  S2: Talk about navigating some of those emotions that kind of
• 11:44
  S2: come in waves.
• 11:46
  S8: Oh, yes. And they still do. I just want to
• 11:50
  S8: be clear that we don't hit a finish line. You know,
• 11:54
  S8: people often ask me, how long will my grief last?
• 11:56
  S8: And I say, how long will you love the person
• 11:59
  S8: who's no longer here? I will grieve the loss of
• 12:02
  S8: my son my whole life. It's different now than it
• 12:05
  S8: was in the beginning. But you're absolutely right. The emotions
• 12:09
  S8: that come in waves can change within a given day,
• 12:12
  S8: within a given hour. And what I found myself feeling
• 12:17
  S8: is a lot of my own depression. I had never
• 12:20
  S8: suffered from depression before. My son had. But dealing with
• 12:24
  S8: all those emotions and the confusion of that, those waves
• 12:28
  S8: crashing over me, I was very depressed. And God used
• 12:33
  S8: that to wake me up. I was hiking and I
• 12:37
  S8: was praying and talking to God and saying, you know,
• 12:40
  S8: I would. I've always wanted to live to be 90
• 12:42
  S8: or 100, but it would be okay if you take
• 12:45
  S8: me early and I get to hug Evan earlier, then
• 12:47
  S8: 90 or 100. That would be okay with me. And
• 12:50
  S8: it was on that given day that I was hiking
• 12:52
  S8: in the mountains of Colorado where I live, and I
• 12:55
  S8: rounded a corner. It was very foggy. My dog was
• 12:58
  S8: on a leash and he went absolutely berserk and started barking, barking,
• 13:03
  S8: and the next thing I knew is about 30ft away
• 13:06
  S8: from me there was a moose. And that moose got
• 13:09
  S8: agitated by my dog barking and charged me.
• 13:13
  S1: Oh, yeah.
• 13:14
  S8: And in that moment, there's something shifted in me when
• 13:18
  S8: I thought that I was going to be trampled to death.
• 13:21
  S8: A new thought hit me. I'm not ready. I want
• 13:24
  S8: to live. I want to build a life worth living. Wow.
• 13:29
  S8: And I, at the last second, the moose darted off
• 13:33
  S8: and I wasn't hit. But it took a moose charging
• 13:37
  S8: to wake me up to say it's time to rebuild
• 13:40
  S8: a life of meaning.
• 13:42
  S1: Laura Bussey, our guest right now, her son Evan, took
• 13:44
  S1: his own life six years ago. You know, there's a
• 13:49
  S1: big mistake people make. It's like Evan's gone. Well, let's
• 13:52
  S1: not talk about them. But we do need to talk
• 13:55
  S1: about them. So I want you to tell us in
• 13:56
  S1: just a couple quick sentences. What was Evan like?
• 14:00
  S8: Oh, thank you so much, Carl. That makes me smile.
• 14:03
  S8: And my heart sing. Evan was brilliant. Evan was born. Oh,
• 14:09
  S8: when he was 18 months old. He was talking in paragraphs.
• 14:12
  S8: He told his pediatrician how much he liked his stethoscope,
• 14:16
  S8: and he was building computers by sixth grade and had
• 14:19
  S8: tested out of college, in high school or even middle school.
• 14:23
  S8: He was a brilliant mind, and he had a huge heart.
• 14:27
  S8: He loved people who were on the margins. He would
• 14:30
  S8: often spend time with unhoused people, asking them their name,
• 14:34
  S8: asking them what they needed and how he could help.
• 14:37
  S8: He had a brilliant mind and a compassionate heart, and
• 14:41
  S8: I'm hoping to carry on his legacy by continuing to
• 14:45
  S8: learn my whole life and bless those who are the
• 14:48
  S8: least of these. Like he would want me to do.
• 14:51
  S1: Yeah. Wow. Quite a kid for sure. So grief is
• 14:56
  S1: an interesting thing. And Ali and I have talked about
• 14:58
  S1: this a lot on air here. The great danger is
• 15:01
  S1: that a lot of people with grief would say in
• 15:04
  S1: reconciling their mind, well, get over it. You didn't lose
• 15:07
  S1: a son like Laura did. And that's dangerous, isn't it, Laura?
• 15:12
  S8: Yes it is. I tell people all the time we
• 15:16
  S8: can't compare our grief. We're in the darkest valley. I
• 15:20
  S8: encourage people to follow Jesus. Like Psalm 23 through the
• 15:24
  S8: darkest valley. If I look to my right and I
• 15:26
  S8: start comparing my grief to my daughters, or my husband's
• 15:30
  S8: or my friends who also have lost a child. I
• 15:34
  S8: take my eyes off of my past and Jesus and
• 15:37
  S8: I get confused and lost along the way. Every single
• 15:41
  S8: person has a unique path of healing to follow and
• 15:45
  S8: In comparison, is horrible in gaining progress.
• 15:49
  S2: Laura, what are some of the practical tools that you
• 15:53
  S2: address in this book to really help with healing and
• 15:56
  S2: even spiritual formation?
• 15:58
  S8: Every chapter is in honor of Evan. So I have
• 16:02
  S8: the question ten chapters, ten questions. I start off with
• 16:05
  S8: encouraging move into education and equipping. So every chapter has activities,
• 16:11
  S8: tangible things you can do. It could be somatic, like
• 16:15
  S8: calming our nervous system by breathing. It could be writing
• 16:19
  S8: angry letters to God. It could be taking a walk
• 16:23
  S8: in nature and awakening our five senses. There are so
• 16:27
  S8: many things to try. And I say it's, you know,
• 16:30
  S8: running experiments. We try things and we see what works
• 16:34
  S8: for you. And then those are the ones you do
• 16:36
  S8: over and over again.
• 16:38
  S9: I love that.
• 16:39
  S1: Uh, you are a blessing through tragedy. Isn't that amazing? Laura,
• 16:43
  S1: you never would have imagined six years ago that I'd
• 16:46
  S1: be using you this way. But he is. And boom crew,
• 16:49
  S1: we know that there's a lot of you in grief
• 16:52
  S1: right now, and sometimes you feel like, wow, what kind
• 16:56
  S1: of a Christ follower am I? I shouldn't be experiencing
• 16:59
  S1: this grief. Come on, we got to break this. This
• 17:02
  S1: is nonsense. Satan's setting, that trap. He's baiting that hook,
• 17:05
  S1: and we got to let go of it. And boy,
• 17:07
  S1: have we got a resource for you, don't we, Allie?
• 17:09
  S2: Yeah. This link has a couple of different things. We
• 17:11
  S2: mentioned the ministry, grief and Hope. Also, her new book,
• 17:14
  S2: The Unimaginable God Grief and the Questions That Won't Go Away,
• 17:18
  S2: Just Text grief will send you all the details. Text
• 17:21
  S2: grief to 805 557898. Just that one word grief to
• 17:27
  S2: 805 557898.
• 17:31
  S7: Celebrating the Unstoppable Gospel.
• 17:34
  S3: You gotta get connected to the vine because Jesus is
• 17:38
  S3: your power source. Nothing good can come apart from him.
• 17:42
  S7: You're listening to cast and crew.
• 17:44
  S1: Yeah. What you just said right there, young Thunder. And
• 17:46
  S1: that stinger is so true. Uh, when we put our
• 17:51
  S1: hope in God, we can. I think all of us
• 17:53
  S1: who are in Christ Jesus can say, yeah, I'm putting
• 17:55
  S1: my hope in God. But when push comes to shove
• 17:58
  S1: and persecution comes our way, that's when you know, wow,
• 18:02
  S1: this person really has their hope in God. Because the
• 18:04
  S1: ultimate pressure test is what if my life is at risk?
• 18:08
  S1: What if my ability to eat is at risk or
• 18:11
  S1: live in any way? It's a dicey thing, man. Lana Silk, uh,
• 18:16
  S1: with us right now. Lana, the economy is in shambles.
• 18:20
  S1: At least that's what we hear. What's really going on
• 18:22
  S1: in Iran. And then we'll get the backstory on our
• 18:25
  S1: brothers and sisters over there. What do you say, Lana?
• 18:27
  S10: Yes, I'm afraid you've heard right. It just seems to
• 18:30
  S10: get worse all the time. Even though you keep feeling
• 18:32
  S10: like you've hit rock bottom and then you're hearing more news. Think,
• 18:35
  S10: my goodness, the latest that I heard was photos being
• 18:38
  S10: sent to me of people. Like literally a man standing
• 18:42
  S10: in the streets in the city holding up a sign
• 18:44
  S10: advertising his own kidney for sale. People are beyond their
• 18:49
  S10: limits of what they can do, you know, of their
• 18:52
  S10: own strengths, and they're turning to these desperate measures now
• 18:55
  S10: to find a way to continue to survive.
• 18:58
  S2: Lana Silk with US President and Chief executive officer with
• 19:01
  S2: Transform Iran. Give us an explanation of what's driving it.
• 19:06
  S2: Is it economic collapse? Is it that things are now
• 19:10
  S2: so expensive nobody can afford it or both?
• 19:13
  S10: Yeah, it is both. There is definitely been an economic collapse.
• 19:16
  S10: The currency is at an all time low. But at
• 19:19
  S10: the end of the day, there are means within the country.
• 19:22
  S10: If the government was for its own people, Iran has
• 19:26
  S10: a means to find a way to at least deal
• 19:29
  S10: with the most desperate situations. But where there are funds
• 19:32
  S10: that are being spent on military capabilities, so the people
• 19:36
  S10: are just being left to fend for themselves. And then
• 19:38
  S10: you add to that mix things like a shortage of work,
• 19:41
  S10: a shortage of gas for their cars and lines and
• 19:46
  S10: lines of cars went through the night. People trying to
• 19:47
  S10: fill up to be able to get to work where
• 19:49
  S10: they have it running out, fights, breaking out in gas stations,
• 19:53
  S10: and then the other pressures from the government with their
• 19:56
  S10: children being imprisoned, disappearing executions. So there's that sort of
• 20:00
  S10: emotional strain. Everyone is just at the end of what
• 20:03
  S10: they can humanly tolerate.
• 20:05
  S1: Yeah, this is this is so rough. So we've been
• 20:08
  S1: better part of a year now. I've been talking about this, um, there,
• 20:12
  S1: it's kind of gone back and forth. Uh, but now
• 20:15
  S1: it's looking like through blockades of oil exports and everything,
• 20:20
  S1: the engine that keeps that country cooking looks like they,
• 20:25
  S1: I would imagine even most of the neighbors there in
• 20:28
  S1: the Middle East are wanting this regime to topple. What's
• 20:32
  S1: going on? Do we have any insight as to what's happening?
• 20:35
  S1: I know protests were so quelled through violence that there's
• 20:39
  S1: a hesitancy to get out on the streets again. Isn't there?
• 20:43
  S11: There is a hesitancy.
• 20:44
  S10: But we are not treading into new territories where there's
• 20:48
  S10: new levels of desperation. People are protesting in the prisons.
• 20:52
  S10: We've had hunger strikes. There have been such a great
• 20:55
  S10: increase in executions. I'm told that aside from China, where
• 20:59
  S10: there are no statistics, Iran now has the record of
• 21:02
  S10: the worst executions in the world. The numbers are just
• 21:05
  S10: increasing constantly. And so people are. There was a man
• 21:09
  S10: I saw having his lips sewn together in prison saying,
• 21:12
  S10: that's it. Now I'm. I will never reach again. So
• 21:15
  S10: there are there are versions of protests happening, but not
• 21:17
  S10: the kinds that we saw in January. If you can't
• 21:20
  S10: even organize themselves. And absolutely, the government is so brutal
• 21:23
  S10: in the way they'll just turn around and shoot into crowds,
• 21:26
  S10: gather people up, young people disappearing, parents being called, telling
• 21:29
  S10: their children, being told their children are gone. So yeah. And,
• 21:33
  S10: and you mentioned the local, um, the Middle Eastern countries, they,
• 21:38
  S10: they want peace. You know, Iran has turned back into
• 21:40
  S10: its old ways of proxy war, hitting out across the region,
• 21:45
  S10: and the instability just continues to grow.
• 21:47
  S2: Lana, what updates are you getting from from the church.
• 21:52
  S11: The church continues to inspire me.
• 21:54
  S10: Ali, we pray together. Every month we have a prayer
• 21:57
  S10: call where they call in from the country. So I
• 22:00
  S10: have the privilege of praying, you know, on Zoom, face
• 22:03
  S10: to face with people in Iran and the way they
• 22:06
  S10: carry hope. You know, you're talking about hope this week
• 22:09
  S10: and the courage that they have and the way they
• 22:11
  S10: share their faith is astounding to me. And they continue
• 22:15
  S10: to share their faith with others, to take what the
• 22:18
  S10: little they have, they raise tithes and offerings still amongst
• 22:21
  S10: themselves and go help those that they consider to be
• 22:24
  S10: more unfortunate than themselves.
• 22:27
  S1: Oh my goodness. You know, when we're talking about hope,
• 22:31
  S1: anyone can say, I'm putting my hope in God for
• 22:34
  S1: this thing that I'm facing today, but there's no test
• 22:37
  S1: for where our hope is placed than what our brothers
• 22:41
  S1: and sisters are going through in Iran. How do you
• 22:44
  S1: sit on a call stateside and give hope to them?
• 22:49
  S1: Or is it almost is it almost like they're given
• 22:52
  S1: more encouragement to you? Lana, what's it like?
• 22:55
  S10: I thought, you know, there is a little of that. I,
• 22:57
  S10: you know, I do it with trembling and reverence, to
• 23:00
  S10: be honest, Carl, because I'm so aware of how fortunate
• 23:03
  S10: I am on the side of the fence where I'm sitting.
• 23:06
  S10: And of course, I do everything that I can. But,
• 23:08
  S10: you know, they are suffering day to day and I
• 23:11
  S10: can't make it stop. So there is a there is
• 23:14
  S10: an overwhelming sense of humility there as you speak to
• 23:17
  S10: someone who is living that life and living it in
• 23:19
  S10: a way that continues to honor God and put him first.
• 23:23
  S10: It's it's very challenging.
• 23:25
  S1: What is the structure over there with this, with the church?
• 23:29
  S1: Are there designated pastors? Are there people that you are
• 23:32
  S1: connecting with that are overseeing larger groups of people that
• 23:36
  S1: are in this underground churches that were. How does that
• 23:40
  S1: work and how are you building into them?
• 23:44
  S10: We try to keep the structure pretty flat in. Many
• 23:48
  S10: years ago, when we had more of a hierarchical structure,
• 23:51
  S10: we got stung by effective spies who had infiltrated the
• 23:54
  S10: system and worked their way up, and then turned whole
• 23:58
  S10: clusters of churches into the government. So we learned pretty
• 24:01
  S10: quickly that it's better that they don't know who the
• 24:04
  S10: other people are. Um, so these sort of oversight, the mentoring,
• 24:08
  S10: the pastoral care, there is some on the ground, but
• 24:11
  S10: with a very limited influence. And then the majority comes
• 24:14
  S10: from outside. They call in to the person that supports
• 24:17
  S10: them and sort of prays with them and guides them.
• 24:20
  S3: Wow.
• 24:21
  S2: Lana, I always ask you this when we have you
• 24:23
  S2: on because I think it's so important. How do we pray?
• 24:26
  S2: Because I think it's do we pray for peace? Do
• 24:28
  S2: we pray for war? Do we? It's hard to know
• 24:30
  S2: how to pray when the situation is so complex. What
• 24:33
  S2: do you say?
• 24:34
  S10: Yeah, well, whenever we're stuck, we for sure can just
• 24:37
  S10: lead to the will of God and pray that he
• 24:39
  S10: does what he needs and wants to do. Um, in
• 24:42
  S10: my understanding, we still absolutely need a regime change. I
• 24:46
  S10: think that the poverty now becomes a very high priority
• 24:50
  S10: for us in prayer, because people are in danger of
• 24:52
  S10: starvation and all sorts of other side effects. When you're
• 24:56
  S10: that desperate, you do things that you you would otherwise not.
• 24:59
  S10: So pray for the poverty to be relieved. Pray for
• 25:01
  S10: people like us who are getting aid to people to
• 25:05
  S10: be able to do that safely and effectively. There's a
• 25:08
  S10: lot that we're distributing now, but we have to continue
• 25:10
  S10: to be very careful. So we're undetected. Um, so protection
• 25:15
  S10: over the aid distribution, more aid to distribute and for
• 25:19
  S10: that poverty intensity to try to, to dissipate a little bit.
• 25:23
  S1: This regime, they're in a pickle because there are a
• 25:27
  S1: lot of people alive. When the Shah was deposed, what
• 25:30
  S1: was that, 76? What year was that?
• 25:33
  S10: 79 were for the official sort of change of regime. February. Yes.
• 25:37
  S1: I mean, there were a lot of people that remember
• 25:40
  S1: a totally different day. Lana.
• 25:43
  S10: Mhm.
• 25:44
  S1: And they must sit around the table and share their stories.
• 25:47
  S1: And that gives fire in the belly for the population,
• 25:52
  S1: not even Christ's followers, to say, let's get something changed here. Well, Lana,
• 25:56
  S1: I want to thank you for ducking in here. This
• 25:58
  S1: is anything else on your heart? I don't want to
• 26:00
  S1: cut you off. What's on your heart? What do you
• 26:02
  S1: want to share with our listeners?
• 26:03
  S10: I'm agreeing with you. Oh, you know, everything that we've
• 26:07
  S10: been discussing before. Let's keep praying for that hope to remain,
• 26:10
  S10: for God to have his way. I'm looking forward to
• 26:13
  S10: the day when the world would look at Iran and say, wow,
• 26:16
  S10: only God could have done what he did in that country.
• 26:19
  S1: Yeah, I'm going to pray right now. Let's go. Let's
• 26:21
  S1: get everyone. Let's get our hearts together. God, we come
• 26:26
  S1: to you and we're asking you, father, thank you for
• 26:28
  S1: your mighty hand. Uh, thank you that you are the
• 26:31
  S1: strong tower. The righteous. Run in and find shelter. We
• 26:35
  S1: thank you that you are the giver of life. You
• 26:39
  S1: are the sustainer. You give hope that helps people bust
• 26:42
  S1: through adversity, persecution, opposition and in the name of Jesus,
• 26:48
  S1: we pray that you would allow a measure of freedom
• 26:53
  S1: and liberty to come to this nation. We do pray
• 26:56
  S1: that the message of ultimate freedom in Jesus Christ would
• 26:59
  S1: go forward. We pray for revival and awakening, and I
• 27:02
  S1: know that it's high cost for some of these men
• 27:05
  S1: and women to even be swept up along by the
• 27:08
  S1: power of your spirit, and we don't know how all
• 27:10
  S1: that works, God. But we do know that you work
• 27:12
  S1: and you move when we pray. And so I humble
• 27:16
  S1: myself under your mighty hand, and we just come to
• 27:18
  S1: you together, all across North America, beyond the free world
• 27:21
  S1: right now, just listening to you saying, oh God, would
• 27:26
  S1: you move on behalf of our brothers and sisters in Iran,
• 27:30
  S1: the Lord rebuke you, Satan. You have no authority over them.
• 27:33
  S1: I pray as we pray right now. Gathered hearts. Thousands
• 27:36
  S1: upon thousands. Lord, would you protect. Would you guide, would
• 27:40
  S1: you illuminate. Would you allow there to be such extraordinary
• 27:45
  S1: presence of your spirit that there is freedom rising up
• 27:49
  S1: in power? Would you help these brothers and sisters to
• 27:53
  S1: set their minds on things above? For they already died
• 27:57
  S1: in their life is now hidden with Christ in God.
• 27:59
  S1: Would you let them mercifully see themselves as joyful sojourners
• 28:05
  S1: in this world today? And God, give them peace. Guard
• 28:08
  S1: them in Christ Jesus, we pray in Jesus name. Amen.
• 28:13
  S12: Amen. Amen.
• 28:15
  S1: Oh my goodness. Lana. Silk. Uh, we got a key
• 28:18
  S1: word for you here. Boom. Crew. Uh, I don't know
• 28:21
  S1: how they do it, but they do get shekels in
• 28:23
  S1: to help out when they can. And we're asking you
• 28:26
  S1: to be a part of this. Just just take a
• 28:28
  S1: look at this site. You'll get prayer points and different things. Ali.
• 28:31
  S1: Take it away.
• 28:32
  S2: Just text the word transform to 805, five, five, 78, 98.
• 28:37
  S2: Just that one word transform 805 five, five, 78, 98.
• 28:44
  S7: Youngest in age. Oldest at heart. Young Thunder is in
• 28:49
  S7: the crew. You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 28:52
  S1: Here's what we find in the book of Romans chapter five.
• 28:54
  S1: We find a bookend of hope. So in Christ Jesus
• 28:57
  S1: we have hope. But it doesn't end there. Paul goes
• 29:00
  S1: on to write, and this is what he says. Then
• 29:02
  S1: we got a specific question for you. So stay locked
• 29:05
  S1: in with me here. Not only that, we rejoice in
• 29:09
  S1: our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character,
• 29:15
  S1: and then that character produces more hope. And hope does
• 29:19
  S1: not put us to shame. So here's the interesting thing.
• 29:22
  S1: When we put our hope in God, it doesn't mean
• 29:25
  S1: that adversity goes away, right? Suffering is coming, but if
• 29:30
  S1: we press through that, it's going to produce character in us.
• 29:35
  S1: So I've got a crazy question for you. When you
• 29:38
  S1: put your hope in Christ and you came up against something,
• 29:43
  S1: but you really put your hope in God, what character
• 29:46
  S1: did that produce in you? Think about that a second.
• 29:51
  S1: What character did God grow in you as a result
• 29:56
  S1: of you placing your hope in God to press through
• 30:00
  S1: any given situation? Think about that. What character did God
• 30:07
  S1: develop in you when you pressed through suffering opposition, naysayers,
• 30:16
  S1: whatever it may be, but character was developed in you
• 30:19
  S1: in that process. That's the promise here. By the way,
• 30:22
  S1: this isn't a pie in the sky. Like maybe something
• 30:25
  S1: will happen. He says, no, this is going to happen.
• 30:29
  S1: So we know that this is a common experience. What
• 30:32
  S1: character trait did God develop in you as a result
• 30:37
  S1: of holding on to hope and pressing through? What was it?
• 30:42
  S1: Give us a call. Think about it. This is one
• 30:45
  S1: of those deep thinker ones, isn't it?
• 30:46
  S2: Very much so.
• 30:48
  S1: And it's awesome because you can go, wow, this is
• 30:51
  S1: what the Spirit of God developed in me. 805, five, five, 78,
• 30:56
  S1: 98 and asking you to think deeply and then load
• 31:00
  S1: up the phone lines 800 555 7898. Give us a call.
• 31:08
  S7: From the oil rig to the pulpit. Carl is in
• 31:11
  S7: the crew. You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 31:14
  S1: You know, it's interesting because suffering for Christ at some
• 31:20
  S1: level is unavoidable. There's going to be challenges. And this
• 31:23
  S1: is what we find in Romans five. So hope is
• 31:26
  S1: bookended here. We have hope because we're found in Jesus Christ.
• 31:29
  S1: But that hope doesn't end there. We face suffering and
• 31:33
  S1: that produces endurance, and endurance produces character. So endurance is,
• 31:39
  S1: interestingly enough, Paul would say endurance isn't necessarily a character.
• 31:45
  S1: Endurance is just fortitude. But then something else has developed,
• 31:50
  S1: and that is character. What is that characteristic of your
• 31:55
  S1: life that was developed in you? What character trait did
• 31:59
  S1: God grow as a result of going through it and
• 32:03
  S1: keeping your hope fixed on God? Going back to the
• 32:07
  S1: phone lines here, who do we have? Alex?
• 32:08
  S2: We have Susie. First time caller from Knoxville, Tennessee. Good
• 32:11
  S2: morning Susie. What character trait did you see God develop
• 32:14
  S2: in you?
• 32:16
  S13: Good morning compassion. I was going through a very difficult
• 32:20
  S13: time and I was crying. I didn't think I would
• 32:23
  S13: ever stop crying. The weight was so heavy and I
• 32:27
  S13: heard the Lord say, Susie, just let go and give
• 32:30
  S13: it to me. And I laid it at his feet,
• 32:33
  S13: and he put such a peace in my heart. And
• 32:36
  S13: now I have a compassion to see the tears and
• 32:41
  S13: the hurt behind the smile.
• 32:43
  S1: You know what, Susie? I want to tell you. I
• 32:47
  S1: think you landed on the most evident and powerful character
• 32:54
  S1: trait that is produced through this. I really do.
• 32:58
  S3: 100%.
• 33:00
  S1: 100 right, guys?
• 33:01
  S2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:02
  S3: Because I think when God pulls you through something and
• 33:05
  S3: gives you the ability to press on and continue forward,
• 33:08
  S3: you have the ability to see other people who are
• 33:12
  S3: going through similar times and similar situations, and the empathy
• 33:16
  S3: and the compassion just grow greater and greater for them.
• 33:20
  S1: Yeah, it's, it's an interesting thing. I was talking with,
• 33:24
  S1: I was talking with someone yesterday about leaders and how
• 33:28
  S1: they develop and how they grow. And, you know, it's
• 33:33
  S1: I love young leaders. I love young leaders. But there's
• 33:39
  S1: a there's a learning curve that has to develop in
• 33:44
  S1: a young leader for them to have a heart of compassion.
• 33:48
  S1: And that is the adversity that they've got to go
• 33:51
  S1: through themselves. And, and unseasoned leader can be very cold
• 33:59
  S1: with regard to some things. I mean, they haven't experienced something.
• 34:02
  S1: So they don't afford people kind of the the bandwidth
• 34:06
  S1: to go through things. They don't look at people through
• 34:09
  S1: the eyes of compassion, as Susie said, by the way, boom, sister,
• 34:13
  S1: you nailed it. And it's a it's a beautiful, it's
• 34:16
  S1: a beautiful thing. I mean, I'm kind of at a
• 34:21
  S1: cul de sac here a little bit because Susie kind
• 34:25
  S1: of wraps it up. Game, set, match there, right when
• 34:27
  S1: you go through these things. Now you you look at
• 34:32
  S1: other people through a totally different lens that you were
• 34:36
  S1: unable to before.
• 34:38
  S3: Yeah. Question. I have through kind of the character that
• 34:42
  S3: gets built from endurance, at least as I'm trying to
• 34:45
  S3: think of the different options that there are for, for
• 34:48
  S3: character building traits out of this. Uh, they all kind
• 34:52
  S3: of feel like they connect to compassion for me. Are
• 34:55
  S3: there any others that we can think of that.
• 34:56
  S1: A really good question.
• 34:57
  S3: That are outside of.
• 34:58
  S1: That, because the illustration from my life is compassion.
• 35:02
  S3: Yeah.
• 35:02
  S1: I mean, I because if you think about people going
• 35:06
  S1: through suffering because you've gone through it, the only thing
• 35:12
  S1: that you have is the only thing. Let's explore that
• 35:17
  S1: a little bit more. What else is there beyond compassion?
• 35:21
  S1: That is that deep character that is the result of
• 35:24
  S1: keeping your hope fixed on God going through this thing
• 35:27
  S1: because Susie just nailed it, didn't she, Allie?
• 35:29
  S2: She absolutely did. I mean, I thought of second Corinthians
• 35:32
  S2: one four who that God comforts us in all our
• 35:35
  S2: afflictions so that we may be able to comfort those
• 35:38
  S2: who are in affliction. I mean, there's something powerful about that,
• 35:42
  S2: whether it's the only thing. I mean, I think I
• 35:45
  S2: think patience is maybe another one. Yes. That's similar to endurance.
• 35:50
  S9: But but it's it's different.
• 35:51
  S1: It's distinct. I think you're right on.
• 35:54
  S2: The ability to wait. Yeah. I mean, because boy, we
• 35:57
  S2: do not like to wait. That is definitely something that
• 36:01
  S2: has to be developed because we want it, whatever it is,
• 36:04
  S2: whether it's our drink at Starbucks or whether it's like
• 36:07
  S2: the answer to the prayer, we want it fast.
• 36:10
  S3: I, I wonder if maybe the, the things that can
• 36:14
  S3: be built out of this are the fruits of the spirit.
• 36:16
  S9: Yeah. I was just there.
• 36:17
  S2: Yeah.
• 36:18
  S3: Love, joy. Peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. I
• 36:23
  S3: feel like all of those can. God produces in us
• 36:26
  S3: through him, giving us the endurance to make it through
• 36:30
  S3: these moments.
• 36:31
  S2: Yeah. Good point.
• 36:33
  S1: And hope does not put us to shame, because God's
• 36:36
  S1: love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy
• 36:39
  S1: Spirit who has been given to us. Yeah, I was
• 36:42
  S1: thinking the same thing. I thought, you know, the interesting
• 36:45
  S1: thing about going through suffering and enduring it of any
• 36:49
  S1: kind is that isn't isn't it amazing whether you put
• 36:56
  S1: just that bucket compassion there or the fruit of the spirit,
• 37:00
  S1: those are now others or others benefit from that. You
• 37:03
  S1: know what I'm saying?
• 37:05
  S3: Mhm.
• 37:05
  S1: I mean, this is something you give away. I love
• 37:09
  S1: talking about this stuff.
• 37:11
  S3: I think it's so good. And it obviously it's hard
• 37:14
  S3: to see when you're in the middle of these things.
• 37:17
  S3: But to look and to say, hey, I'm going through
• 37:20
  S3: something right now, but God give me the strength because
• 37:22
  S3: I know what you're going to produce in me from.
• 37:25
  S3: This is going to be so cool. And I'm just, I'm,
• 37:28
  S3: I'm waiting in hope to see what you're going to do.
• 37:32
  S7: Whether it's in the pool or on the stage. She's
• 37:35
  S7: making a splash. Super dye is in the crew. You're
• 37:39
  S7: listening to Carl and crew.
• 37:42
  S2: Well, when you think about marriage, there is a segment
• 37:45
  S2: of the population that grew up always planning what their
• 37:49
  S2: wedding would look like, maybe eyeing dresses and floral arrangements
• 37:54
  S2: and picking out names for children when they were a
• 37:57
  S2: child themselves. I had a best friend like that growing up.
• 38:01
  S2: My next door neighbor, she had names picked out when
• 38:04
  S2: she was probably about 12 or 13 years old. But
• 38:07
  S2: then there's another segment of the population that looks at
• 38:09
  S2: marriage and thinks, that seems like a lot of work,
• 38:12
  S2: a lot of trouble. And I don't know if that's
• 38:15
  S2: for me. I tell the story of my husband, who
• 38:19
  S2: had a friend who had been dating a woman for
• 38:22
  S2: a while, and he said, why don't you just. This
• 38:25
  S2: was my husband to the friend. Why don't you just
• 38:27
  S2: go ahead and get married? And he goes, you know what?
• 38:30
  S2: I just don't think I'm. I don't think I'm ready yet.
• 38:32
  S2: I'm just not ready for marriage. And then my husband
• 38:35
  S2: gave me the kicker, the part that really knocked me back.
• 38:38
  S2: I said, well, how long have they been together? And
• 38:40
  S2: he said, 17 years. I said, 17 years. Jill Savage,
• 38:46
  S2: our guest right now, you've got you got people on
• 38:48
  S2: all sides of this one, people who are ready for
• 38:51
  S2: marriage before they're even through puberty. And then you've got
• 38:55
  S2: people who go, yeah, I'm gonna keep this train moving
• 38:58
  S2: along where I can just stay with this person for
• 39:01
  S2: a long time. And it's just a piece of paper, right?
• 39:05
  S2: Jill Savage, our guest. What do you say to that?
• 39:07
  S14: Oh my goodness. But you're right. People swing from one
• 39:11
  S14: side of the spectrum to the other when it comes
• 39:14
  S14: to marriage, for sure. And are any of us ever
• 39:17
  S14: ready for marriage? Ali. I don't think so. Let's be honest.
• 39:21
  S14: I don't think any of us are. I don't think that, honestly.
• 39:25
  S14: I think very few of us read the fine print
• 39:27
  S14: on marriage, which is like, you know, hey, this is
• 39:31
  S14: going to require dying to self. This is going to
• 39:34
  S14: require giving of yourself. You know, we all say the words,
• 39:38
  S14: or at least most of us, for better or for worse.
• 39:41
  S14: But do we really think worse will happen? I think
• 39:44
  S14: that often we have stars in our eyes.
• 39:47
  S2: Jill Savage, author, blogger, international speaker she hosts the No
• 39:52
  S2: More Perfect podcast. She's been featured on focus on the
• 39:54
  S2: Family Crosswalk Family Life Today, today's Christian Woman magazine. You know,
• 40:00
  S2: I'm curious, what kind of expectations did you go into
• 40:04
  S2: when you were getting married? You were engaged to be
• 40:07
  S2: married to your husband, Mark. Did you expect. Were you
• 40:10
  S2: in sort of that happily ever after fairy tale vibe?
• 40:15
  S14: I was, I was and I, I had a couple.
• 40:18
  S14: Now it's funny because if you ask both of us,
• 40:21
  S14: I had a few unrealistic expectations. My husband had a
• 40:25
  S14: whole truckload of unrealistic expectations. Um, and that, you know,
• 40:30
  S14: fueled some of the challenges that we later faced, which
• 40:34
  S14: I'm sure you and I will talk about. But there
• 40:36
  S14: were two for me, big ones. One is I did
• 40:40
  S14: not expect us to argue and disagree because I didn't
• 40:45
  S14: ever see my parents do that. And so I didn't. I,
• 40:50
  S14: you know, whether they did that behind closed doors, whether
• 40:53
  S14: one of them was just so much of a pleaser
• 40:55
  S14: that that it they didn't incite that kind of disagreement.
• 41:00
  S14: But that didn't happen for us because we had our
• 41:02
  S14: first argument on our honeymoon. So that blew that expectation
• 41:06
  S14: out of the water. And then the second one that
• 41:09
  S14: I struggled with is I really thought we would think
• 41:12
  S14: more alike. And again, I'm thinking that this probably came
• 41:16
  S14: from me seeing, you know, this very peaceful marriage that
• 41:20
  S14: my parents had, and I assumed they thought more alike.
• 41:25
  S14: Now I've come to know. Over the years they didn't.
• 41:28
  S14: They learned how to handle that in different ways. But, um,
• 41:33
  S14: that surprised me big time. I just thought, our brains
• 41:36
  S14: don't even work the same.
• 41:38
  S2: Yeah. Jill Savage, our guest right now. You've been very
• 41:41
  S2: open and honest throughout your years of ministry about the
• 41:44
  S2: biggest struggle that your husband and you walked through. Talk
• 41:48
  S2: a little bit about that for our listeners.
• 41:50
  S14: Yeah. Well, when we had been married 28 years, let's say,
• 41:54
  S14: particularly for my husband, that had been 28 years of
• 42:00
  S14: disappointment because of his expectations. And it honestly wasn't even
• 42:05
  S14: about marriage. Like he was disappointed in God. He was
• 42:09
  S14: disappointed in marriage, he was disappointed in people. And so
• 42:15
  S14: he was in a not good place. And in the
• 42:19
  S14: midst of all of that disappointment. And and at that point,
• 42:22
  S14: his perspective was, you know, everybody else is a problem.
• 42:26
  S14: I'm not the problem. Everybody else is a problem. And
• 42:29
  S14: so he couldn't get a, you know, find any place
• 42:32
  S14: where he had contentment. And so he thought, well, the,
• 42:35
  S14: you know, the answer to that is I need to
• 42:38
  S14: find contentment elsewhere. And even though that went against what
• 42:44
  S14: he deep down believed, he was in a place. And
• 42:49
  S14: when he tells the story, he often uses these exact words.
• 42:53
  S14: He was in a place without hope. And when he
• 42:56
  S14: was in a place without hope, then it caused him
• 43:01
  S14: to start to say, well, I'm going to have to
• 43:03
  S14: take care of this myself. I'm going to find the
• 43:06
  S14: happiness I'm looking for. And ultimately, he had an affair,
• 43:11
  S14: and that affair went on long enough, about eight months,
• 43:15
  S14: nine months that actually he began to realize there wasn't
• 43:19
  S14: hope in that. And so that became an awakening for
• 43:24
  S14: him to go, wait a minute. I don't even think
• 43:28
  S14: this is the answer either. However, as you can imagine,
• 43:33
  S14: by that time it had blown up our family. It
• 43:35
  S14: had blown up my heart. Um, it was a really dark,
• 43:40
  S14: difficult season.
• 43:42
  S2: You know, you mentioned that he had lost hope. Did
• 43:45
  S2: you when you became aware, obviously, you knew that you
• 43:49
  S2: could see that he was struggling in his faith, in his,
• 43:53
  S2: you know, sense of purpose, a sense of identity. Did
• 43:56
  S2: you have hope that things could be repaired, or did
• 43:59
  S2: you go to a place of hopelessness to.
• 44:02
  S14: Thankfully, I stayed in a place of hope. I was
• 44:06
  S14: in a place of deep pain. So don't confuse. Um,
• 44:10
  S14: I mean, I, I probably cried more in those nine
• 44:14
  S14: months I've cried and I've cried in my entire life.
• 44:16
  S14: So it was deep pain, but I always had hope
• 44:21
  S14: that he could. He could, um, make a u turn.
• 44:26
  S14: I had hope that God was at work. I absolutely
• 44:31
  S14: had hope that our marriage could be restored. But there
• 44:36
  S14: were many seasons that I thought, like, I trust that
• 44:40
  S14: God is pursuing Mark. I don't know if I have
• 44:44
  S14: hope that Mark himself will actually respond to the pursuit.
• 44:50
  S14: So I never lost my hope in Christ. I believe
• 44:53
  S14: that God was at work and that if Mark would
• 44:56
  S14: respond to that work, to his word, his pursuit of him,
• 45:01
  S14: that things could turn around. Um, but I wasn't so
• 45:05
  S14: sure if he was actually going to respond. And as
• 45:09
  S14: I said, it took just a little under a year.
• 45:12
  S14: And finally he did. But that doesn't always happen for everyone.
• 45:16
  S14: You know, because you have to have a person that
• 45:19
  S14: is willing to even hear the tiniest bit of the
• 45:22
  S14: Holy Spirit's call on their life.
• 45:25
  S2: Jill Savage, our guest right now. Coming up, she mentioned
• 45:28
  S2: that here's the Cliff notes version of the is that
• 45:32
  S2: her and her husband, Mark, have been restored and are
• 45:34
  S2: doing ministry together. But I'm going to ask her to
• 45:37
  S2: take us a little bit on that journey that took
• 45:39
  S2: them to get to the place where they are today.
• 45:42
  S2: Maybe you're listening today. Maybe it's not been infidelity, but
• 45:44
  S2: it's been something else that has caused you to feel
• 45:47
  S2: hopeless in your marriage. Hope is on the way. More
• 45:50
  S2: with Jill Savage coming up.
• 45:53
  S7: She lives in the city, but wouldn't mind A little
• 45:57
  S7: House on the Prairie. Ali is in the crew. You're
• 46:01
  S7: listening to cast and crew.
• 46:03
  S2: Well, marriage is the greatest gift, but it can also
• 46:07
  S2: be one of the greatest challenges. One of, I should say,
• 46:11
  S2: the greatest gift that God gives us is his Son.
• 46:13
  S2: He gives us himself. He gives us salvation and he
• 46:16
  S2: gives us someone to walk through life with. This covenant,
• 46:20
  S2: we stand before God. We make a commitment not just
• 46:23
  S2: to another person, but to God Himself, to love, to honor,
• 46:27
  S2: to cherish. It's the marriage I think, sometimes. Jill Savage,
• 46:30
  S2: our guests right now, I think sometimes we forget what
• 46:33
  S2: marriage really is about. That it's more than just the
• 46:36
  S2: uniting of two lives together, that this covenant actually represents
• 46:40
  S2: the relationship between the church and Christ.
• 46:44
  S14: Right. Yes, exactly. And what did Christ do for the church?
• 46:50
  S14: He gave his life. That's the dying to self that
• 46:55
  S14: marriage really brings about. You know, the subtitle of Gary
• 47:00
  S14: Thomas's book Sacred Marriage is What if marriage wasn't really
• 47:04
  S14: designed to make us happy, but to make us holy?
• 47:07
  S14: And man, that right there speaks so much to the
• 47:11
  S14: fine print, you know, that I was talking about earlier.
• 47:15
  S14: but most of us think it's designed to make us happy.
• 47:19
  S14: And you know, what's the beautiful thing? Um, and that
• 47:22
  S14: book really, uh, in the midst of this hard season
• 47:26
  S14: for my husband, which started bubbling up a year before
• 47:30
  S14: the affair happened, and he had started to read Gary's
• 47:34
  S14: book and it had really made him angry. Um, I mean,
• 47:38
  S14: he just really he didn't believe that no marriage is
• 47:41
  S14: supposed to make us happy. And when Mark actually surrendered, which,
• 47:47
  S14: by the way, his surrender date was Easter Sunday.
• 47:50
  S2: Wow.
• 47:51
  S14: So for us, it was the beginning of that turnaround.
• 47:55
  S14: But about three months after Mark surrendered and made the
• 47:59
  S14: U-turn and and eventually moved back home, he came home
• 48:04
  S14: one day from work. And, you know, he'd really been
• 48:06
  S14: pursuing holiness. And he came home one day and he said,
• 48:10
  S14: I had a realization today. And I said, what's that?
• 48:13
  S14: And he said, I realized I'm actually happy. I'm really happy.
• 48:18
  S14: And that was the byproduct of the holiness. That was
• 48:22
  S14: the byproduct of the surrender. That was the byproduct of saying,
• 48:27
  S14: it's no longer my way, my will, my way. It's
• 48:31
  S14: now God, your will, your way. I'm going to do
• 48:35
  S14: things your way. And the byproduct was the happiness.
• 48:39
  S2: Jill Savage with us this morning, author, blogger, international speaker.
• 48:43
  S2: I'm sure that the question you probably get asked most
• 48:46
  S2: often when people learn about you and your husband's journey, uh,
• 48:50
  S2: the period of infidelity where Mark was away from your
• 48:53
  S2: whole family. How did you get back to a place
• 48:57
  S2: where you're not just married, not perfect marriage? I know
• 49:01
  S2: from your no more perfect series that you're not about that,
• 49:04
  S2: but where you are happy in the Lord.
• 49:07
  S14: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it does take time. One of
• 49:12
  S14: the biggest things, especially for the person who betrays, is
• 49:16
  S14: they think that if they just make a recommitment, they
• 49:21
  S14: say that they're sorry. They promise they won't do it again.
• 49:24
  S14: Then we should just be able to move forward. That
• 49:27
  S14: isn't the way it works when you are rebuilding trust.
• 49:31
  S14: In fact, we like to say that there's like kind
• 49:34
  S14: of a, a way to think, a formula for rebuilding trust.
• 49:37
  S14: And that's consistent change behavior over time. And that equals trust.
• 49:42
  S14: And so you can't shortcut it. Um, and we like
• 49:46
  S14: to also think of it as if you imagine a
• 49:49
  S14: bathtub and the bathtub when you get married, the water
• 49:52
  S14: is full in the bathtub. And that water represents trust.
• 49:56
  S14: And when something like infidelity happens, the bathtub drains. And
• 50:01
  S14: you can't say, I'm sorry, I'll never do it again.
• 50:04
  S14: Please forgive me. Then your partner forgives you and then
• 50:08
  S14: you just. That fills the bathtub. That's not the way
• 50:11
  S14: it works. You actually have to fill the bathtub one
• 50:15
  S14: tablespoon at a time.
• 50:17
  S2: Wow.
• 50:17
  S14: And that takes time. And so for us, it took
• 50:21
  S14: about 18 months. And what did that look like? It
• 50:25
  S14: looked like counseling. It looked like lots of conversations where
• 50:32
  S14: there was patience, there was kindness. There was compassion. That
• 50:36
  S14: meant pushing accountability, which meant like, if my husband was
• 50:40
  S14: going to be late coming home from somewhere, he would
• 50:43
  S14: call me and say, hey, this is what's going on. Um, I'm,
• 50:47
  S14: you know, this is where I'm going to be. It
• 50:49
  S14: was sharing locations, all of those kind of things. Puts
• 50:53
  S14: the water back in the bathtub. Those are all tablespoons,
• 50:57
  S14: even sometimes quarter cups of water. And it just takes time.
• 51:02
  S14: But it is possible.
• 51:05
  S2: You know, I'm going to throw another analogy at you,
• 51:07
  S2: but a lot of times in marriage it's not the
• 51:09
  S2: big blowout I think of a tire. It's the slow leak,
• 51:13
  S2: and you have people listening who are in marriages where
• 51:17
  S2: maybe there's not been some big issue of infidelity. There's
• 51:20
  S2: not been a big anything. It's just over time, you
• 51:23
  S2: have two people who look at each other and go,
• 51:25
  S2: I don't really know if I love this person anymore.
• 51:29
  S2: And I, I, I'm not even sure that I know them.
• 51:33
  S2: What do you say to people who feel kind of
• 51:35
  S2: quietly hopeless? There's no big something to point to. They
• 51:38
  S2: just don't feel it.
• 51:40
  S14: Yeah, that happens in so many marriages. In fact, it's
• 51:44
  S14: probably one of the main causes of what we call
• 51:47
  S14: silver divorces, which is when people get divorced after being
• 51:51
  S14: married 30, 35, 40 years. And we talk about that
• 51:55
  S14: in our No More Perfect Marriages book. And we call
• 51:58
  S14: them the slow fades. And a slow fade is a
• 52:02
  S14: slow erosion of connection. And what I would say is
• 52:09
  S14: the slow fades can be identified and they can be
• 52:13
  S14: stopped if you can just learn what they are, if
• 52:17
  S14: you can get the help to begin to turn around,
• 52:20
  S14: some of the mindset that has contributed to those slow fades.
• 52:25
  S14: And an example of this actually, is that my husband
• 52:29
  S14: was experiencing the slow fade of unrealistic expectations. That's one
• 52:33
  S14: of them that we identify in our No More Perfect
• 52:35
  S14: Marriages book. And that slow fade of expectations moved him
• 52:39
  S14: from discontentment to discouragement to disillusionment to disconnection. And even
• 52:48
  S14: if the affair hadn't happened so that he was then
• 52:52
  S14: primed for the affair, even if that affair hadn't happened,
• 52:55
  S14: we would have been at a crossroads where he was
• 52:59
  S14: very disconnected because his expectations were unrealistic, and there were
• 53:06
  S14: some other dynamics playing out. I had the slow fade
• 53:10
  S14: of emotional shutdown. I grew up in a buck up family,
• 53:16
  S14: so you just kind of buck up and you just
• 53:18
  S14: kind of put one foot in front of the other.
• 53:21
  S14: But what that did is it kept me emotionally distant
• 53:25
  S14: and that was contributing to our disconnection. So we both
• 53:30
  S14: had areas we needed to work on. And that's ultimately
• 53:34
  S14: what Mark and I love helping couples do is find
• 53:36
  S14: those areas, understand them, and then get to work on
• 53:40
  S14: turning that dynamic around because it can be turned around.
• 53:45
  S2: Jill Savage, I know you're listening and you're going, oh, okay,
• 53:48
  S2: where can I get more? She mentioned a couple of books,
• 53:51
  S2: the No More Perfect Marriage. There's also one for moms.
• 53:55
  S2: I want you to get connected the podcast as well.
• 53:57
  S2: Just text perfect to (800) 555-7898. You'll find lots of resources
• 54:03
  S2: available on her website. Text perfect to (800) 555-7898.