Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #303 Jason Flom with Billie Allen

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#303 Jason Flom with Billie Allen · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: On March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, two armed and masked
0:06
Speaker 1: men robbed a bank in Saint Louis, Missouri, and fatally
0:09
Speaker 1: shot a security guard named Richard Heflin in the process.
0:13
Speaker 1: As part of their plan to destroy evidence innovade capture.
0:16
Speaker 1: They had pre soaked the getaway van with gasoline, but
0:20
Speaker 1: before they got to switch from the van to a
0:22
Speaker 1: second getaway vehicle, the van caught fire. One assailant, Norris Holder,
0:27
Speaker 1: was arrested at the scene, but the second assailant escaped.
0:30
Speaker 1: Then was described as a black man about five to nine,
0:33
Speaker 1: with singed hair and an injured right hand. Norris Holder
0:37
Speaker 1: told investigators that the escape bee was named John, but
0:41
Speaker 1: later changed that name to Bill. Police arrested an acquaintance
0:46
Speaker 1: of Holders named Billy Allen. Other than being black, Billy
0:50
Speaker 1: did not match the initial descriptions, but curiously was somehow
0:54
Speaker 1: identified by four witnesses, including Holder. Imagine being selected for
0:59
Speaker 1: this and hearing investigators testify about an alleged confession, as
1:04
Speaker 1: well as that four witnesses, including the only other assailant,
1:07
Speaker 1: identify Billy Allen. You might feel pretty confident in your verdict,
1:12
Speaker 1: Yet here we are almost a quarter century later to
1:15
Speaker 1: publicly reveal for the very first time case breaking exculpatory
1:20
Speaker 1: evidence from the state's own files that was ignored by
1:23
Speaker 1: both the prosecution and the defense that I mentioned, they
1:27
Speaker 1: send them to death. This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome back
1:44
Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. Today, we're going to do something I
1:48
Speaker 1: don't think we've ever done before, which is that we're
1:51
Speaker 1: covering a federal death penalty case. And we're honored. I'm
1:56
Speaker 1: honored to have Professor Mark Howard, leader of the Making
2:00
Speaker 1: An exana reprogram at Georgetown. So Mark, Welcome back to
2:05
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction.
2:07
Speaker 2: Great to be back, Jason, thanks.
2:09
Speaker 1: And with Mark is his distinguished co professor who has
2:14
Speaker 1: also been on the podcast before more than once for
2:18
Speaker 1: the right and the wrong reasons. Marty Tankliffe was wrongfully
2:22
Speaker 1: convicted himself and served seventeen years when Marty was wrongfully
2:27
Speaker 1: convicted of murdering his parents, and of course he's been
2:30
Speaker 1: exonerated and we've become great friends. And he also is
2:34
Speaker 1: Mark's childhood friend and the co professor now at Georgetown
2:40
Speaker 1: of the Making It exana reprogram. So Marty Tankliffe es choir.
2:46
Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
2:48
Speaker 3: Thank you.
2:49
Speaker 1: You know, the fact that we're all here today is
2:53
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing, but it's also an extremely troubling thing
2:58
Speaker 1: because we're here today to talk about Billy Allen, who
3:00
Speaker 1: has been on death row in the federal system for
3:05
Speaker 1: a quarter of a century now, ever since he was
3:07
Speaker 1: nineteen years old.
3:08
Speaker 3: I appreciate you, you know, you all taking an interest in
3:11
Speaker 3: my story and wanting to tell it.
3:13
Speaker 1: Well, Billy, yours is a story that definitely needs to
3:16
Speaker 1: be told, so welcome to the show. But before we
3:20
Speaker 1: get into all the details, i'd love to hear about
3:22
Speaker 1: your life before this horrible scenario took place.
3:25
Speaker 3: You know, I grew up in a house with three
3:27
Speaker 3: sisters on the north side of Saint Louis, which was
3:30
Speaker 3: I guess you can say, flooded with drugs, a lot
3:32
Speaker 3: of violence and stuff like that. Even though I lived
3:35
Speaker 3: in the underprivileged neighborhood, I went to school in a
3:38
Speaker 3: privileged neighborhood. Clayton, Missouri, is considered probably one of the
3:43
Speaker 3: wealthiest places in Missouri. You know, no matter if I
3:46
Speaker 3: go out to the Clayton School district and I'm around
3:49
Speaker 3: rich people, I still have to deal with my surroundings
3:52
Speaker 3: when I come home, You're like, where do I fit
3:54
Speaker 3: in in things?
3:56
Speaker 1: It sounds like you had a foothold in these two
3:59
Speaker 1: sort of hoppers worlds of haves and have nots, which
4:01
Speaker 1: sounds like you could be pretty confusing. So after you
4:05
Speaker 1: graduated high school and leading up to March of ninety seven,
4:07
Speaker 1: what were you up to.
4:08
Speaker 3: To be honest with people, You know, I was hustling
4:09
Speaker 3: at the time. You know, I wasn't a big drobe
4:12
Speaker 3: dealer or anything like that. I was just hustling at
4:14
Speaker 3: the time. But at the same time, I was trying
4:16
Speaker 3: to find my way at the time, and that's why
4:19
Speaker 3: I met the you know, the girl I ended up
4:21
Speaker 3: with who I was going to move in with, you know,
4:23
Speaker 3: because basically I was going to get a job, stop
4:25
Speaker 3: selling drugs and just I guess you could say, start
4:28
Speaker 3: my growth. Not only for her, but she had a daughter,
4:30
Speaker 3: so I was trying to be better for all of them.
4:32
Speaker 1: So you were at a crossroads, and it sounds like
4:35
Speaker 1: you were choosing a more promising path. But your connection
4:38
Speaker 1: to the old neighborhood happened to bring you into contact
4:40
Speaker 1: with one of the actual bank robbers, in this case,
4:43
Speaker 1: Norris Holder. You had met him through job corps once
4:47
Speaker 1: and then had a chance encounter with him years later.
4:50
Speaker 1: Apparently you had sold him some weed once or vice versa,
4:54
Speaker 1: and it was this chance meeting and short lived hangout
4:57
Speaker 1: just a few days before Holder committed this crime that
4:59
Speaker 1: even put you into the realm of possibilities. I mean,
5:03
Speaker 1: how well did you even know this older guy?
5:05
Speaker 3: Well, I didn't know Holder per se. I guess you
5:07
Speaker 3: can say the way they tried to, you know, sell
5:09
Speaker 3: the story to my jury. When I was at the
5:12
Speaker 3: club one day older I knew one of his friends
5:14
Speaker 3: he was with, you know, just from my neighborhood, and
5:17
Speaker 3: so you know, we end up just talking. So he's like, hey, look,
5:20
Speaker 3: you know, let's hook up one day just being cordial
5:22
Speaker 3: with people. Plus up. Like I said, I knew the
5:24
Speaker 3: guy he was with. Then a few days, you know later,
5:27
Speaker 3: I get a call from him, you know, basically like
5:29
Speaker 3: hey man, you know, I'm going to go to the
5:31
Speaker 3: mall and you know, I got some weed and I'm like, okay,
5:33
Speaker 3: well I'm in now. But for them to make it
5:36
Speaker 3: seem like we were friend, we were plot in this
5:38
Speaker 3: crime or anything like that, how can you say that
5:42
Speaker 3: that I would involve myself, you know, in a crime
5:45
Speaker 3: of this magnitude with somebody I didn't even know.
5:48
Speaker 1: Right, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot
5:50
Speaker 1: of sense until you consider the investigators in this case,
5:53
Speaker 1: one of whom Joseph Nickerson is on the Saint Louis
5:56
Speaker 1: DA's do not testify list, which is, by the way,
5:59
Speaker 1: exactly what it sounds like. He's not allowed to testify
6:01
Speaker 1: in cases because he lies so much. He's the detective,
6:05
Speaker 1: by the way, from another egregious, wrongful convictioning case out
6:08
Speaker 1: of Saint Louis, Lamar Johnson, who is still awaiting justice.
6:12
Speaker 1: And Lamar also did some drug dealing, as did Billy,
6:16
Speaker 1: so they were typical targets for this Nickerson guy. In
6:20
Speaker 1: Lamar's case, Nickerson fabricated a narrative from alleged witness statements,
6:24
Speaker 1: but these witnesses later denied saying any of the things
6:27
Speaker 1: Nickerson had attributed to them, So, you know, just sat
6:30
Speaker 1: around just making shit up. He perjured himself to make
6:34
Speaker 1: Lamar's culpability even plausible. And then there's a cash incentivized
6:38
Speaker 1: eyewitness who was convinced by investigators that the mass gunman
6:43
Speaker 1: in this case was Lamar Johnson. So he went along
6:46
Speaker 1: with the ID, which you'll see in it a bit
6:49
Speaker 1: sounds eerily similar to what happened in this case. Now,
6:53
Speaker 1: I believe his partner, a guy named Carol, is actually
6:57
Speaker 1: doing time now for assaulting someone who was in custody.
7:01
Speaker 1: So it's patterns like these that give a helpful context
7:03
Speaker 1: to what happened in Billie's case. So let's get to that.
7:07
Speaker 1: The morning of March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, where were
7:11
Speaker 1: you actually that paidful morning?
7:14
Speaker 3: I had left the house early that morning, like at
7:16
Speaker 3: eight o'clock in the morning. They claimed that I had
7:19
Speaker 3: called holder and told them let's get ready for the
7:21
Speaker 3: crime and all this stuff from the house. But how
7:23
Speaker 3: can I call you from the house when I'm already gone,
7:25
Speaker 3: you know. So I get to the mall early in
7:27
Speaker 3: the morning, and my first stop is to the hat Zone.
7:30
Speaker 3: So I went to foot Locker, and I went to
7:33
Speaker 3: another story foot quarters, and right after that, I went
7:35
Speaker 3: to Famous and Barb, which is a clothing store. I
7:38
Speaker 3: went to this tuxedo place, and so as I'm shopping,
7:41
Speaker 3: basically I see Chris Hiagog. Now Chris Chigag is a
7:45
Speaker 3: security guard who was after the mall to pick up
7:47
Speaker 3: his paycheck. He was like, Hey, I'm just going to
7:49
Speaker 3: pick up my check and I plan to go to
7:51
Speaker 3: another mall to do some shopping and stuff like that.
7:54
Speaker 3: So I'm like, well, can I ride with you? I
7:56
Speaker 3: was like, look, I just got to drop a few
7:57
Speaker 3: items off to a girl I was dating, and so
8:00
Speaker 3: he was like okay. So he went to pick up
8:02
Speaker 3: his check and we left them all and I dropped
8:05
Speaker 3: off a few eyed them for her baby and basically
8:08
Speaker 3: gave her some money because we were moving in together.
8:10
Speaker 3: And left.
8:12
Speaker 1: So you'd been out of the house since eight am.
8:15
Speaker 1: At the mall where you visited several stores, made several
8:18
Speaker 1: points of contact, and I'm talking about people who were
8:21
Speaker 1: disinterested alibi witnesses to people who didn't know you. And
8:25
Speaker 1: there was also surveillance footage. So all the great alibi
8:28
Speaker 1: evidence that places you away from the scene at the
8:30
Speaker 1: time of the crime, none of it was investigated or
8:33
Speaker 1: later presented on your behalf. So while you were shopping
8:36
Speaker 1: across town, there was this bank robbery going on at
8:39
Speaker 1: the Lindell Bank and Trust, which is Caddy Corner from
8:42
Speaker 1: this huge park in Saint Louis that houses, the Saint
8:44
Speaker 1: Louis Zoo, several museums, landmarks on golf course, this skating rink,
8:48
Speaker 1: and this area is known as Forest Park. Again. This
8:51
Speaker 1: is March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, around ten thirty five am,
8:54
Speaker 1: when two masked and armed men busted down the door
8:58
Speaker 1: and told everybody to get on the ground.
9:00
Speaker 2: There were two bank robbers who stole fifty thousand dollars
9:03
Speaker 2: and a security guard named Richard Heflin was killed in
9:06
Speaker 2: the process of that robbery, and then the two men
9:10
Speaker 2: left the scene in a getaway van, drove to Forest
9:13
Speaker 2: Park and they had a plan apparently to set the
9:17
Speaker 2: van on fire and then get away in a different
9:20
Speaker 2: vehicle that they planted there. But the van had actually
9:23
Speaker 2: been pre soaked in gasoline and exploded and caught on
9:28
Speaker 2: fire inside the park before sort of the full extent
9:32
Speaker 2: of their plan and getaway plan could work. And so
9:35
Speaker 2: the driver, a guy named Norris Holder, was still on
9:39
Speaker 2: fire himself and was pulled out of the car, and
9:43
Speaker 2: then the second suspect ran away.
9:45
Speaker 1: So Holder was in custody almost immediately. And I've listened
9:50
Speaker 1: to the dispatch tapes from that morning. It sounds pretty chaotic,
9:54
Speaker 1: but ultimately it sounds like a team of folks trying
9:56
Speaker 1: to bring the bank robbers and murderers of this bank
9:58
Speaker 1: security guard to justice. And this is so important. Every
10:03
Speaker 1: one of them described a blackmail about five eight to
10:06
Speaker 1: five ten, wearing gray sweats and a blue and red
10:09
Speaker 1: colored jacket, and they said he had singed hair understandably
10:13
Speaker 1: since a pan was on fire, and an injured right hand.
10:15
Speaker 3: They never described the person with a beard. And I
10:17
Speaker 3: had a beard at the time. So if I was
10:19
Speaker 3: the person who walked up to you and asked you
10:22
Speaker 3: for directions, wouldn't that be one of the most descriptive
10:25
Speaker 3: things you can point out about an individual.
10:28
Speaker 1: Had it actually been you, they would have mentioned a beard, right,
10:31
Speaker 1: That's a pretty big detail for everybody to leave out,
10:34
Speaker 1: But they did not say that. They also would have
10:37
Speaker 1: said over six to two instead of around five to nine.
10:41
Speaker 1: Big difference there. Six' two is tall five to. Nine
10:45
Speaker 1: most people would say short for it. Man and when
10:48
Speaker 1: you were eventually picked, up your right hand was not
10:50
Speaker 1: injured and your hair was not burned in any. Way
10:54
Speaker 1: so if you listen to all of the dispatch tapes
10:56
Speaker 1: as we, did the story remains the. Same in the immediate,
10:59
Speaker 1: aftermath the assailant came over a hill from the direction
11:02
Speaker 1: of the burning. Van he went toward the fence line
11:04
Speaker 1: and allegedly told them that his van caught fire and
11:07
Speaker 1: he needed to get to the metro.
11:09
Speaker 3: Link both park, workers you, know when they first came,
11:11
Speaker 3: forward they claimed that all they did was gave him
11:14
Speaker 3: directions to the metro. Link the thing about it, is
11:16
Speaker 3: when we get the, trial both park workers change their.
11:19
Speaker 3: Story they claim they gave the person a ride outside
11:22
Speaker 3: of the. Park do you KNOW i have their actual
11:25
Speaker 3: recordings were police officer is standing right with, them calling
11:30
Speaker 3: in the, dispatch.
11:34
Speaker 4: Supervisor horstory workers and all these second subject he was
11:38
Speaker 4: running east from the burning van by a construction. Trailer
11:42
Speaker 4: this about J. George they had right over here by
11:46
Speaker 4: the fence. Line there's a hole in the.
11:47
Speaker 5: Fence one with who had exactly when he.
11:51
Speaker 3: With?
11:52
Speaker 4: Them and that's what we got to don't want. That
11:58
Speaker 4: that's what.
11:58
Speaker 5: Happened after we had.
11:59
Speaker 4: IT i took it.
12:01
Speaker 5: Off the robberies of the point influencer from a guard
12:06
Speaker 5: in the block of plate that the subject with plain
12:10
Speaker 5: calling under a Fat wilson Near Petual, way the block
12:15
Speaker 5: on a pulley.
12:17
Speaker 4: Hands and have it on a multi.
12:18
Speaker 3: Collars the parkworkers just told them that they gave the person. Directions.
12:23
Speaker 1: Right these park, workers along with everyone else at this,
12:26
Speaker 1: point were just feeding in whatever they could to help
12:29
Speaker 1: nab this. Guy no other. Agenda they pointed him in
12:32
Speaker 1: the right direction and he left got away whatever through
12:35
Speaker 1: a hole in the. Fence, importantly not in someone's. Car
12:40
Speaker 1: giving this assailant a ride outside the park would really
12:43
Speaker 1: make for a much more CREDIBLE, id which is why
12:45
Speaker 1: we believe this story changed by the time of. Trial
12:48
Speaker 1: but back to the immediate. Aftermath, ultimately the effort to
12:51
Speaker 1: close in on the second assailant was unsuccessful and they
12:54
Speaker 1: were hoping to get something out Of.
12:56
Speaker 3: Holder, yeah When holder was, arrested he says the person
12:59
Speaker 3: with was some guy Named. John then they threatening him
13:02
Speaker 3: with the destiny and, say, hey, look whoever's the least
13:04
Speaker 3: culpable is who might get lingency in this. Case so
13:08
Speaker 3: basically you need to provide, us you, know with a,
13:10
Speaker 3: story you, know or something that can help us out
13:12
Speaker 3: or help you. Out so all of a sudden he
13:15
Speaker 3: switches From john and he mentions my.
13:17
Speaker 1: Name so now he's given them something, concrete a full
13:20
Speaker 1: name and not just a name that feels chosen at.
13:23
Speaker 3: Random that's the. Thing he didn't even know my last.
13:25
Speaker 3: Name he just Said, bill Just.
13:26
Speaker 1: Bill that's.
13:27
Speaker 3: It i'll show you Where bill. Lives. Now the thing
13:30
Speaker 3: about The john situation is, this throughout their, reports there's
13:35
Speaker 3: a person NAMED jb who is connected To. Holder we
13:38
Speaker 3: THINK jb is his. COUSIN i can't you, KNOW i
13:40
Speaker 3: don't want to falsely accuse anybody or anything like, that you,
13:43
Speaker 3: know but that this is what the reports are basically.
13:45
Speaker 3: Saying it's my belief That holder is using me as
13:48
Speaker 3: escapego to protect somebody who is close To.
13:51
Speaker 1: So now you had no idea what was coming your.
13:54
Speaker 1: Way did you even know that this bank robbery had taken?
13:58
Speaker 3: Place, WELL i did see the crime on the news
14:01
Speaker 3: when they Arrested, holder and So i'm, like, okay, well you,
14:05
Speaker 3: Know i'm not involved in so it doesn't really draw
14:07
Speaker 3: my attention to. It next, THING i, Know i'm at the,
14:10
Speaker 3: apartment you, know with the GIRL i was living with
14:12
Speaker 3: at the, time AND i hear some banging on the
14:15
Speaker 3: door and don't know what the hell is going on
14:18
Speaker 3: or anything like. THAT fbi and police officers come to my.
14:21
Speaker 3: Door they arrest, me and the first THING i tell,
14:23
Speaker 3: THEM i had the clothes in everything THAT i had
14:28
Speaker 3: bought on the, couch AND i told the, officers, look
14:31
Speaker 3: you're arresting the wrong. Person here are all the. Items
14:35
Speaker 3: the receipts are still in the. Back the clothes are
14:37
Speaker 3: still in the, back And i'm, like, look just go
14:39
Speaker 3: to the mall and ask to see the surveillance footage
14:42
Speaker 3: and basically you'll see THAT i have an alibi at
14:44
Speaker 3: the time the crime took. Place you, know you can't
14:46
Speaker 3: beat the. Video and so they were basically just yesing me,
14:49
Speaker 3: off and so they took me down to the homicide.
14:52
Speaker 3: Office and that's WHEN i kept repeating the same story
14:55
Speaker 3: and that they can talk To Christian god who was
14:58
Speaker 3: a security guard at the time too fine out whether
15:00
Speaker 3: or NOT i was at the.
15:01
Speaker 1: Mall, Yeah but, unfortunately they weren't interested in solving the.
15:04
Speaker 1: Case they were interested in fixing the facts to match
15:08
Speaker 1: the name that they got From Norris. Holder SO i,
15:12
Speaker 1: Mean i'm using facts very loosely. There so you were
15:15
Speaker 1: arrested around two. Am what happened next.
15:18
Speaker 3: WHEN i was in the homicide, Office it's two officers
15:21
Speaker 3: that came and talked to Me Thomas carroll And Joseph.
15:25
Speaker 3: Nickerson NOW i told both, Officers i'm, like, look you
15:28
Speaker 3: all can go to the. Mall you all can get the,
15:30
Speaker 3: recordings and you all can see THAT i have an.
15:33
Speaker 3: Alibi now they claim they went to the, mall yet
15:36
Speaker 3: for some, reason there's no surveillance footage that can be.
15:40
Speaker 3: FOUND i believe they have this footage BECAUSE i. Believe
15:43
Speaker 3: and here's the. THING i reported about this before The
15:45
Speaker 3: Lamar johnson. CASE i reported that they were probably withholding this,
15:49
Speaker 3: evidence and come to find out years later they withheld
15:53
Speaker 3: recordings In Lamar johnson. Case so it's like a pattern
15:56
Speaker 3: down there dealing with these, officers.
15:58
Speaker 1: A pattern that is unfortunately press event In Saint, louis
16:01
Speaker 1: and let's face, it around this whole country as are
16:04
Speaker 1: alleged false confessions or fabricated, statements which we'll get into
16:07
Speaker 1: in a. Bit but, first what happened in that interrogation.
16:10
Speaker 3: Room WHEN i first came in and as they reported their,
16:13
Speaker 3: reports you, know and LIKE i told, them, LOOK i
16:16
Speaker 3: didn't have anything to do with the. Crime so this
16:18
Speaker 3: is when you, know both you, know officers were, like, okay,
16:21
Speaker 3: well if you didn't commit this crime and give us YOUR.
16:25
Speaker 3: Dna i'm, like, sure, SHIT i ain't got none to.
16:28
Speaker 3: Do what you can have.
16:29
Speaker 6: It WHEN i was in, PRISON i used to always
16:31
Speaker 6: ask guys who would say they're. Innocent one of the
16:32
Speaker 6: first Persons i'd, said would you be willing to do
16:34
Speaker 6: A dna? Test and almost ninety nine point nine percent
16:39
Speaker 6: of the people who are really innocent, SAID i will
16:42
Speaker 6: do A dna, TEST i will do any forensic tests
16:45
Speaker 6: THAT i can do to prove my. Innocence And billy
16:49
Speaker 6: falls into the category who SAID i want to do
16:52
Speaker 6: anything in everything.
16:53
Speaker 3: Possible next thing they, do they'd, say the van you
16:57
Speaker 3: know that was used in the crime was soaked in,
16:59
Speaker 3: gasoline you, know so if you don't have any gasoline
17:01
Speaker 3: on your, clothes you, know that can help prove that
17:04
Speaker 3: you weren't. There So i'm, like, okay, well, here you
17:06
Speaker 3: can have all of my. Clothes SO i willingly gave
17:09
Speaker 3: him MY dna and my.
17:10
Speaker 2: CLOTHES i mean the fact that this entire case was
17:14
Speaker 2: covered in, gasoline so to, speak And billy has none on.
17:18
Speaker 1: Him they tested the co defendant his clothes were sure,
17:21
Speaker 1: enough every inch of them had gasoline residue on.
17:24
Speaker 6: Him billy had a credible. ALIBI dna test results came back.
17:28
Speaker 2: Negative they left open the question WHOSE dna is? It
17:31
Speaker 2: and that hasn't been, pursued hasn't been, shown but it's
17:35
Speaker 2: certainly Not.
17:35
Speaker 1: Billy's so take take us back, There billy to the
17:38
Speaker 1: interrogation and id.
17:40
Speaker 3: Process next THING i, know AN fbi agent comes into the,
17:43
Speaker 3: Room Agent Jan. Hartman you, know she started reading my.
17:46
Speaker 3: Life this is the first TIME i was ever read my.
17:48
Speaker 3: Life So i'm, like, well LOOK i want a lawyer
17:50
Speaker 3: from the court. Period i'm done. TALKING i don't have
17:53
Speaker 3: anything to. Say you all aren't going to believe. Me,
17:55
Speaker 3: so according to her trial, testimony she never told told
18:00
Speaker 3: anybody about my request for an. Attorney so one officer comes,
18:03
Speaker 3: in he conducted the. Lineup i'm, like, well, look you
18:06
Speaker 3: know where's my attorney At and he was, like you,
18:08
Speaker 3: know you don't need an attorney for. This i'm, like
18:10
Speaker 3: BUT i asked for. One he's, like, well you can
18:13
Speaker 3: get one. Afterword so they took me to the. Lineup
18:15
Speaker 3: and now here's the crazy part about this. Lineup i'm
18:19
Speaker 3: the tallest person in their damn. Lineup they have nobody
18:22
Speaker 3: close to six' two in. This lineup nobody who looks
18:25
Speaker 3: like me in. This lineup and to make, matters worse
18:28
Speaker 3: he puts me in position. NUMBER three i am the
18:31
Speaker 3: tallest person in, this Thing and i'm beside the two
18:35
Speaker 3: shortest people Inside this, so basically you're giving people the
18:38
Speaker 3: person you want them.
18:39
Speaker 1: To pick not only is, it suggestive but it's also
18:42
Speaker 1: telling about the description they.
18:45
Speaker 3: Had exactly, five eight. Five ten and like, our lineup
18:49
Speaker 3: a lot of people when they, envision lineup they envision
18:51
Speaker 3: you behind the glass and the witnesses are outside of.
18:54
Speaker 3: The Thing The saint louis if they have a piece,
18:56
Speaker 3: of cloth it's like a black piece of cloth, right
18:58
Speaker 3: there so you. Can see you can actually see the
19:01
Speaker 3: damn person who's basically, identifying you, you know and you can.
19:05
Speaker 3: Hear them and this is just how hilarious my. Lineup
19:07
Speaker 3: was This lady. I'll mcgilliam, you know they were, telling,
19:11
Speaker 3: her well can you identify the person? You saw she
19:14
Speaker 3: picks the person in position. Number, two now if you
19:17
Speaker 3: look at this person in my, lineup photo this dude
19:20
Speaker 3: has a freaking. Full beard he looks nothing, like me
19:24
Speaker 3: and he fished the description that she gave of the
19:27
Speaker 3: person she saw at. The crime SO now i hear.
19:30
Speaker 3: This guy he comes out, and, say, hey look we
19:33
Speaker 3: think it's the guy in position. Number three can we bring?
19:36
Speaker 3: Him forward and you look? At him she, was like are?
19:39
Speaker 3: You sure he's. Like yeah so they told the number
19:42
Speaker 3: two guy go back and they take me out of,
19:44
Speaker 3: the lineup and she, was, LIKE yeah i think you might.
19:47
Speaker 1: Be.
19:47
Speaker 3: Right wow if you go to, my transcripts she will
19:51
Speaker 3: tell you she picked the guy in position. Number two
19:54
Speaker 3: so why would you pick somebody five a, full beard
19:58
Speaker 3: full head, of hair and yet all of a sudden
20:00
Speaker 3: you switch your account to somebody six, to two small
20:03
Speaker 3: beard at. The time so come to, find out, you
20:06
Speaker 3: know in a, dispatch tape she actually is reporting that
20:10
Speaker 3: she couldn't even describe the person. She saw this is
20:12
Speaker 3: on their. Own recordings so my attorney didn't. Find it
20:15
Speaker 3: it was never presented on my defense. Or anything but
20:17
Speaker 3: yet this woman was allowed to pick somebody and position
20:20
Speaker 3: number two who was clearly DIFFERENT than, i was and
20:23
Speaker 3: then basically come to court changed, her story claimed that
20:26
Speaker 3: she never told the, Officers that and then we have
20:29
Speaker 3: the recordings to prove that the prosecutors presented.
20:31
Speaker 1: False testimony and this wasn't the only time the prosecutors
20:35
Speaker 1: know only put on false testimony in, this case nor
20:37
Speaker 1: was it the last time that one of the quote
20:39
Speaker 1: unquote eyewitnesses picked someone out when they had no business
20:42
Speaker 1: doing so because they admitted not having seen, the assailant
20:48
Speaker 1: like the guy who had followed the van from the
20:50
Speaker 1: bank to, The Park.
20:51
Speaker 3: William Green william green walked in. The ROOM like, i
20:54
Speaker 3: said you can clearly hear what the person is telling the,
20:56
Speaker 3: you know talking to. The witnesses he comes in the
20:59
Speaker 3: door and he, tells, THEM look i can't. Identify anybody
21:04
Speaker 3: you know what the officer, tells him just, Pick anybody
21:07
Speaker 3: and that's exactly what. He does he just did a.
21:11
Speaker 3: Random pick he never. Picked me but why would you
21:13
Speaker 3: even take?
21:14
Speaker 1: That chance the same reason we have to remind people
21:17
Speaker 1: that black, lives matter as well as why that statement
21:20
Speaker 1: is ever met with.
21:21
Speaker 3: Any, Pushback exactly, i'm no, full fact my life. Didn't
21:25
Speaker 3: matter when you're going, through that when you're sitting in
21:28
Speaker 3: this situation and you're hearing these things, going on, you're,
21:30
Speaker 3: like man WHAT did i do to? Deserve this why
21:34
Speaker 3: are these people doing what they're doing when basically everything
21:37
Speaker 3: shows that. They're lying.
21:52
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Speaker 7: light of the compelling need for pro bono, legal assistance
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Speaker 7: services and other support to underrepresented communities.
22:20
Speaker 1: And individuals so you have two witnesses who admitted in
22:31
Speaker 1: front of you that their identifications were. Entirely invalid and
22:35
Speaker 1: then you have these two park workers who said that
22:37
Speaker 1: they gave the assailant a ride and that the assailant
22:40
Speaker 1: was not wearing, a mask so they got a. Good
22:42
Speaker 1: look as we already, pointed out the dispatch tapes proved
22:46
Speaker 1: that these two accounts were. Also lies they were standing
22:49
Speaker 1: there with the police saying that they had pointed the
22:52
Speaker 1: assailant towards the, Metrolink.
22:54
Speaker 3: Exactly but my attorney never presented. THIS recording i found
22:58
Speaker 3: the recorder a couple of, years AGO so i just
23:00
Speaker 3: found out about THEM because i kept Telling everybody, i'm,
23:03
Speaker 3: LIKE look i know these guys in line they would be,
23:05
Speaker 3: you know everybody, was like well we, you know you
23:07
Speaker 3: have to. Prove IT so i knew they had turned
23:10
Speaker 3: over these dispatch, tape transcripts but they only gave me.
23:14
Speaker 3: Six pages do you know the actual recording is over
23:17
Speaker 3: an hour and a.
23:18
Speaker 1: Half long my producer transcribed. These tapes the ninety minute
23:22
Speaker 1: segment you're talking about comes out to thirty, nine pages
23:25
Speaker 1: and that's what the artificial intelligence transcriber missing a lot
23:28
Speaker 1: of the.
23:28
Speaker 3: Actual words, so basically they withheld the fact that they
23:32
Speaker 3: knew that both park workers.
23:33
Speaker 1: Were lying that or they were counting on your attorney
23:37
Speaker 1: not doing. His job so we already Heard about al
23:39
Speaker 1: Mcgillion And. William green so what happened when these park
23:43
Speaker 1: workers walked into the?
23:43
Speaker 3: Lineup Room When william green didn't pick? Me out the,
23:46
Speaker 3: officer walked, You Know william, green out and you see
23:49
Speaker 3: the two. PARK workers i literally when they opened, the
23:51
Speaker 3: door you can see the two park workers standing side
23:53
Speaker 3: by side and they, were, like look, you know we
23:55
Speaker 3: think it's the guy in position. Number three before they
23:58
Speaker 3: even walk into, the room they, were, like, yeah yeah
24:01
Speaker 3: it's the guy in position. Number three and the officer, tells,
24:04
Speaker 3: him no you all have to come in and identify
24:06
Speaker 3: them so we can put it. On record so they
24:08
Speaker 3: come in and pick me in position. Number three that's
24:11
Speaker 3: how they.
24:11
Speaker 1: Got me so this total sham identification procedure where all
24:14
Speaker 1: the witnesses are ready and willing to help out the
24:16
Speaker 1: boys in blue with whatever. They Need Plus, norris holder
24:19
Speaker 1: who's incentivized to try to avoid the, death penalty even
24:22
Speaker 1: though that ended up backfiring. For him this is essentially
24:26
Speaker 1: the that's all they had. Against you all the, other
24:30
Speaker 1: evidence or let's call it what, it is the, actual
24:32
Speaker 1: evidence told a totally. Different story They tested holder's clothes
24:36
Speaker 1: for traces. Of gasoline i'm talking about, the shoes, his fox,
24:40
Speaker 1: his pants, his SHIRT his. T shirt everything he had
24:44
Speaker 1: on came back positive for traces. OF gasoline i gave you.
24:47
Speaker 3: My clothes not a single trace of gasoline was found.
24:52
Speaker 1: On anything and they knew that as well as that
24:55
Speaker 1: you didn't match any of the. Physical descriptions you didn't
24:58
Speaker 1: have the injury to your right hand that was described by,
25:00
Speaker 1: the witnesses an injury that would have explained the blood
25:03
Speaker 1: left behind on the strap to a. Bulletproof vest it
25:05
Speaker 1: was tested for both yours and THE victims dna. Both
25:09
Speaker 1: negative yet still some pile, some way they chose to
25:14
Speaker 1: believe holder and basically RIG the. Id process but they
25:18
Speaker 1: didn't stop with just. One fix your attorney could have
25:23
Speaker 1: found all of. This evidence so they needed, some, more right,
25:27
Speaker 1: you know.
25:27
Speaker 3: They wanted me to confess to, the CRIME and i
25:29
Speaker 3: TOLD them i don't have anything to do with.
25:30
Speaker 1: This crime so you maintained your. Innocence throughout you were
25:34
Speaker 1: quote unquote idd in that. Fixed lineup but now when
25:38
Speaker 1: you're going, to trial you. Receive discovery NEXT thing, I
25:41
Speaker 1: know i read a report a few.
25:44
Speaker 3: Days later basically he's SAYING that i confessed to.
25:46
Speaker 1: The crime there's, get this not a single piece of
25:50
Speaker 1: evidence to show that a confession ever.
25:53
Speaker 2: Took, place well, to me it's a perfect example of
25:57
Speaker 2: a larger phenomenon that we, know well which is that
26:00
Speaker 2: when there's this pressure to close, the case they'll start
26:02
Speaker 2: making shit up so they feel like they need a
26:04
Speaker 2: little bit More on billy Onll, so hey, He, confessed
26:07
Speaker 2: well where's the evidence of this confession?
26:08
Speaker 1: Was?
26:09
Speaker 2: Recorded no were?
26:10
Speaker 3: Their?
26:10
Speaker 2: Notes, yes okay then where are? The notes we don't have?
26:15
Speaker 2: Them anymore we. Lost them we threw. IT away, i mean,
26:17
Speaker 2: come on that's, just bullshit beginning middle.
26:20
Speaker 1: To end they didn't even say they, lost it which would,
26:22
Speaker 1: have like, you know they said they threw. It away,
26:25
Speaker 1: SO yeah i mean they threw away the only evidence
26:29
Speaker 1: that they had that this alleged confession ever. Took. Place,
26:35
Speaker 1: Yeah no i'm. Not dumb i'm.
26:37
Speaker 2: Not really usually they say it was lost in. A
26:38
Speaker 2: flood we've heard that in a number. Of, cases yeah we,
26:41
Speaker 2: had it but it was lost in. A flood in,
26:43
Speaker 2: this case, they, say no we threw.
26:44
Speaker 3: It away they claimed that after the, LINE up i
26:48
Speaker 3: demanded to speak To A lieutenant HENDERSON because i alludedly
26:52
Speaker 3: knew him from a. Previous case the previous case they
26:56
Speaker 3: mentioned is a friend. Of mine he. Was murdered we
26:58
Speaker 3: were the victims in, that case and basically they so
27:01
Speaker 3: they used my friend's murder to SAY that i confessed
27:03
Speaker 3: to this black OFFICER because i knew HIM and i. Trusted,
27:07
Speaker 3: HIM now i kept telling, My lawyers, I'M like i
27:11
Speaker 3: don't even know. This guy ONE thing i do know
27:13
Speaker 3: is that when my friend, was killed there wasn't one
27:16
Speaker 3: black officer that came to the crime scene. That day,
27:19
Speaker 3: So basically i'm telling my lawyer to look for this
27:21
Speaker 3: police REPORT so i can prove that they manufactured. This
27:25
Speaker 3: line he. NEVER finded i find this myself a few,
27:28
Speaker 3: years later and come to Find out henderson didn't even worked,
27:32
Speaker 3: That day so HOW can i ask to confess to
27:34
Speaker 3: SOMEBODY that i never even? Met before but we were
27:38
Speaker 3: never able to front him.
27:39
Speaker 1: With that there was a lot of bullshit slinging at
27:42
Speaker 1: your trial and a near total abdication of duty by your,
27:46
Speaker 1: defense attorney who could have done so much more with
27:50
Speaker 1: what was available to him to discredit this horrendous lie
27:53
Speaker 1: that perhaps even the jury, saw through but they most
27:56
Speaker 1: definitely were not provided with what they needed to see
27:59
Speaker 1: the real time truth in. THIS case, i mean let's,
28:01
Speaker 1: face it the very least he could have done was
28:03
Speaker 1: present the negative gasoline RESIDUE and dna test results that
28:07
Speaker 1: would have had a big impact on.
28:09
Speaker 2: THE jury, i mean the fact that he didn't even,
28:12
Speaker 2: highlight this didn't even make it part of, his case
28:15
Speaker 2: part of.
28:15
Speaker 1: HIS defense a government forensic expert even testify the trial
28:19
Speaker 1: saying that anyone who had been in that van would
28:21
Speaker 1: have had gasoline present on. Their clothing yet he just
28:24
Speaker 1: didn't seize, that moment probably because he hadn't done his
28:28
Speaker 1: freaking homework or he would have known to. DO it,
28:30
Speaker 1: i mean any first year law student would have known to.
28:33
Speaker 2: Do that and then there's all these different, eyewitness, discrepancies.
28:37
Speaker 1: Right and as, we've mentioned there were four alleged, eyewitness
28:40
Speaker 1: IDs and considering the dispatch tapes and interview recordings that
28:43
Speaker 1: were available, to him more could have been done to
28:45
Speaker 1: impeach all. Of them two of, the eyewitnesses, after all
28:49
Speaker 1: set on the tapes that they were unable to identify
28:51
Speaker 1: the perp on top of what they said and did at.
28:53
Speaker 1: The lineup then you've got these two park workers saying
28:56
Speaker 1: that they gave the assailant a ride And. Identified billy
28:59
Speaker 1: but your attorneys have researched and pointed out that that
29:02
Speaker 1: testimony was contradicted by what they had said in their
29:04
Speaker 1: initial statements via the. Dispatch tape he didn't present one
29:08
Speaker 1: piece of evidence on. My behalf he cross examined these
29:11
Speaker 1: witnesses though that's.
29:12
Speaker 3: It didn't present not a single thread of all THE
29:14
Speaker 3: evidence i found that he had. Access to he didn't even.
29:18
Speaker 1: Look, forward so not having done the preparation his cross
29:22
Speaker 1: examination among, other things fell.
29:24
Speaker 2: Predictably short his public defender did an unconscionably, poor job
29:29
Speaker 2: didn't seek any Confirmation of, billie's alibi just sort of
29:34
Speaker 2: let it go.
29:35
Speaker 6: TO me, i mean you think about somebody goes shopping
29:37
Speaker 6: in a very. Public place the first thing you're going
29:40
Speaker 6: to do is have an investigator to every, single store speak,
29:45
Speaker 6: to people, get videos try to find witnesses.
29:48
Speaker 2: DOWN right, i mean there could have been receipts from
29:50
Speaker 2: the mall security footage which instantly would Have, cleared billy
29:55
Speaker 2: and he didn't do anything and didn't make any attempt to.
29:58
Speaker 2: Obtain that, and now of course it's far.
30:00
Speaker 1: Too late, of course there was a security guard that
30:02
Speaker 1: gave him a ride, As Well. Chris chigag how do
30:06
Speaker 1: you not present him or look into when he picked up.
30:10
Speaker 1: His paycheck there would have certainly been a record that
30:14
Speaker 1: showed that this took place at the time of, the
30:15
Speaker 1: crime which would Have. Cleared billy but none of this.
30:19
Speaker 1: Was Done norris holder identified you in an effort to
30:22
Speaker 1: save himself and his actual partner in crime from. Death
30:25
Speaker 1: row little good that ended up doing for, him. Anyway though,
30:29
Speaker 1: and meanwhile there's the first person that he named whose Name.
30:32
Speaker 1: Was john this is another lead that could have and
30:35
Speaker 1: should have. Been developed but beyond the leads that could have,
30:37
Speaker 1: been developed there was everything that was already Available that
30:40
Speaker 1: billy has been able to use to prove that the
30:43
Speaker 1: witnesses and the police. Were lying which makes this all
30:46
Speaker 1: so unbelievable that this ever even made it. To, trial yeah.
30:50
Speaker 3: All the Evidence that i'm presented on my behalf is
30:53
Speaker 3: in their, Own files so they knew that when they presented,
30:58
Speaker 3: this testimony when they conquer this story and claimed all,
31:02
Speaker 3: these things they had their actual reports that shows something
31:05
Speaker 3: other than what they were actually, Testifying too so it
31:09
Speaker 3: wasn't like it was just a lot concocted by. The
31:11
Speaker 3: officers the prosecutors basically allowed them to tell these lies
31:15
Speaker 3: because they had these fouls with them when they put
31:18
Speaker 3: these people on.
31:19
Speaker 1: The, stands yeah you think that would make them eligible for?
31:21
Speaker 1: Attempted murder and perhaps your trial attorney could be and
31:24
Speaker 1: should be considered for criminal negligence because without the defense,
31:29
Speaker 1: you needed the jury was left with this pack of
31:32
Speaker 1: lies and not. Much else and before we go to
31:35
Speaker 1: this trial's, INEVITABLE conclusion i want to talk about this
31:39
Speaker 1: really makes. Me sick this electric stun Belt that billy
31:42
Speaker 1: was made to wear throughout, The proceedings what in the
31:46
Speaker 1: actual fuck is up?
31:47
Speaker 2: WITH that i don't, Have, WORDS jason i. Don't know
31:50
Speaker 2: it's part of, the dehumanizing degrading PROCESS that i think
31:56
Speaker 2: often happens to. Different degrees this is extreme to scare
32:00
Speaker 2: into viewing somebody as being responsible and, perhaps worthy so,
32:04
Speaker 2: to speak of getting the.
32:05
Speaker 3: Death penalty my, thing was you know a lot of
32:07
Speaker 3: times you want to, stand up, you know you want
32:09
Speaker 3: to tell them, you, know object or you, want to,
32:12
Speaker 3: you know, yell, out hey y'are? On menocent or you
32:14
Speaker 3: want to yell out to, the jury or you want
32:16
Speaker 3: to stand up and, you know kind of, defend yourself
32:18
Speaker 3: especially when you're not being defended by, your attorney. You
32:21
Speaker 3: know but the thing About, the marshalls they, were, like
32:23
Speaker 3: look if you make any, quick movements we're going to
32:26
Speaker 3: push the button freaking twenty thousand volts of. FIFTY thousand
32:30
Speaker 3: i don't even remember how many volts this. THING is i, don't,
32:33
Speaker 3: KNOW man i felt even more IMPRISONED because i couldn't,
32:36
Speaker 3: SAY anything i couldn't.
32:37
Speaker 1: Do anything they were essentially treating you like cattle and by,
32:42
Speaker 1: the way that's not even the way cattle should be.
32:43
Speaker 3: Treated exactly if you have TO realize i Wasn't Called.
32:47
Speaker 3: BILLY allen i was called a murderous dog by. My
32:50
Speaker 3: prosecutor my jury was never allowed to basically see, the
32:55
Speaker 3: truth to hold truth for nothing but. The truth they
32:57
Speaker 3: got half of a story that was concocted by officers
33:00
Speaker 3: that could have easily been disputed. With evidence and so
33:03
Speaker 3: That's why i'm kind of hoping that this platform allows
33:06
Speaker 3: my jury to hear this stuff, and, say hey you,
33:08
Speaker 3: KNOW what I think i made.
33:10
Speaker 1: A mistake did you have any hope that they were
33:12
Speaker 1: going to see that at. The? Time.
33:14
Speaker 3: Oh, NO honestly i told, my mom and this is
33:17
Speaker 3: a sad part. ABOUT it i told my mom right before,
33:21
Speaker 3: THE verdict, i, Say look i'm going to get. Found
33:23
Speaker 3: guilty she, was, like no don't. SAY that, i, say,
33:25
Speaker 3: look mom my lawyer isn't going to present, a defense
33:28
Speaker 3: so don't. BE surprised i prepared my mom emotionally and
33:31
Speaker 3: prepare my family to accept the FACT that i was
33:34
Speaker 3: going to get. FOUND guilty i, accepted it. You know
33:37
Speaker 3: and then here's. THE thing i wasn't mad at MY
33:38
Speaker 3: jury i was more mad at my defense attorney for
33:41
Speaker 3: him not defending me and proving to THEM that i.
33:44
Speaker 3: Was INNOCENT so i wasn't mad at them BECAUSE if
33:46
Speaker 3: i were to sit on, THAT jury i would have
33:49
Speaker 3: to find a. Person guilty there WAS nothing i. Could
33:53
Speaker 3: do from THE moment i got. Locked up that started
34:07
Speaker 3: my mission to prove. My innocence one BECAUSE when i went,
34:10
Speaker 3: into court, you know the victim's family, was THERE and
34:15
Speaker 3: i saw people looking at me with so much anger
34:17
Speaker 3: and so much pain and so, much Hate and, I'M
34:20
Speaker 3: like i got people hate me when they have the.
34:23
Speaker 3: Wrong Person so, I'm, Like okay i'm going to make
34:25
Speaker 3: it my mission to Prove that. I'm missing and, YOU
34:27
Speaker 3: know i made that same promise to my mom and.
34:31
Speaker 3: Thea sially that started my JOURNEY where i started reading all.
34:34
Speaker 3: THE files i read every, single paid every, single sentence, every,
34:38
Speaker 3: transcript EVERYTHING and i started putting together. This puzzle and
34:42
Speaker 3: when you see the story that they tell at, my
34:45
Speaker 3: trial and you see all the evidence that they had
34:47
Speaker 3: to show, something different you start to, ask yourself why
34:52
Speaker 3: would somebody go this far to convict me for something
34:55
Speaker 3: THEY know i, didn't do where their own Evidence proves
34:58
Speaker 3: i'm missing hadn't been the Burden that i've had. To carry,
35:02
Speaker 3: you know in a sense, Being innocent being innocent is a.
35:04
Speaker 3: Burden man, you know every day you're fighting, to live
35:08
Speaker 3: you're fighting to prove. Your innocence you're fighting to convince
35:12
Speaker 3: judges to do the right thing who won't do the.
35:14
Speaker 1: Right thing so your first appeal happened in two thousand,
35:17
Speaker 1: and one and it was based On Your fifth amendment
35:19
Speaker 1: right to be indicted by a. Grand, jury essentially the
35:22
Speaker 1: effort sought to get you off of.
35:24
Speaker 2: Death throw what's interesting is that his sentence. Was mixed
35:28
Speaker 2: so the, first count which was bank robbery in which a,
35:31
Speaker 2: killing occurs he was convicted and. Got life on, the
35:34
Speaker 2: second which was using a firearm during and in relation
35:38
Speaker 2: to a federal crime of violence which resulted, in murder
35:41
Speaker 2: he was convicted and got. Death penalty then that was
35:44
Speaker 2: Appealed by billy and it was reversed so commuted. To
35:49
Speaker 2: life but then the state appealed it To The eighth
35:53
Speaker 2: circuit and made back to death and put him on.
35:56
Speaker 2: Death ROW but i think the fact that you had
35:58
Speaker 2: these different outcomes just suggest there's something. Fishy here and
36:02
Speaker 2: also the fact that the state appealed to get it
36:05
Speaker 2: back on death row just shows how hell bent they
36:07
Speaker 2: are on having the highest possible outcome and win for
36:13
Speaker 2: their case based on what they decided, to pursue which was.
36:15
Speaker 2: Death penalty the best predictor of whether somebody is going
36:18
Speaker 2: to get the death penalty is the race of. The
36:21
Speaker 2: victim so having a white victim and, black perpetrator suddenly
36:25
Speaker 2: the odds of prosecutors going for death penalty, shoot up
36:28
Speaker 2: as they did in.
36:29
Speaker 1: This case while we're on the subject, of race in
36:31
Speaker 1: a community that was half white and, half black literally
36:34
Speaker 1: split evenly somehow other the jury pool ended up being ten.
36:39
Speaker 1: White jurors so the prosecutors found all sorts of reasons
36:44
Speaker 1: to strike black people from, the jury and, on appeal
36:48
Speaker 1: in two thousand, And Nine billy allen's lawyers sought an
36:52
Speaker 1: evidentiary hearing on the, race issue noting that as of
36:55
Speaker 1: the Twelfth of may two thousand and nine of the
36:57
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty federal defendants AGAINST The Us attorney
37:00
Speaker 1: general had authorized federal prosecutors to seek the. Death penalty
37:04
Speaker 1: and this will shock, no one but one hundred and
37:06
Speaker 1: nineteen of them were white and three hundred and forty
37:09
Speaker 1: one were, from minority racial or, ethnic groups of whom
37:13
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty seven. Were BLACK so i, KNOW
37:17
Speaker 1: today i don't know the percentage, of them but it's
37:18
Speaker 1: probably about. The same thirteen percent Of the american population.
37:21
Speaker 1: Is black and yet somehow, or other over fifty percent
37:26
Speaker 1: of the time the death penalty was used weaponized against
37:31
Speaker 1: people innocent or guilty in the, federal system it was
37:35
Speaker 1: used against. Black people and then fully another one hundred
37:39
Speaker 1: and four of those four hundred and sixty total were
37:42
Speaker 1: people from other. Minority groups the direct quote from the
37:46
Speaker 1: government to this incredible statistical evidence, was quote there are
37:50
Speaker 1: three kinds, of, lies lies, damn lies. And statistics this is,
37:55
Speaker 1: so nonsensical it's, like cartoonish but again. Deadly serious and,
38:00
Speaker 1: a judge, of course ruled that even if the court
38:02
Speaker 1: would agree With, mister allen that these statistics amounted to
38:05
Speaker 1: a compelling indictment of the federal government's use of the
38:07
Speaker 1: death penalty against, minoriti defendants which is basically him almost
38:10
Speaker 1: tacitly acknowledging that. It did he goes on, to say
38:12
Speaker 1: the law is nevertheless clear that a defendant cannot make
38:15
Speaker 1: out a selective prosecution claim under The Equal protection clause
38:18
Speaker 1: without evidence that there was discriminatory motive to prosecute him.
38:22
Speaker 3: In.
38:23
Speaker 2: Particular yeah so that's the lasting legacy of one of
38:27
Speaker 2: The Worst supreme court decisions in, our lifetime which is
38:30
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven McCleskey, versus kemp where there was an
38:33
Speaker 2: overwhelming finding that still exists today and statistical pattern that's
38:37
Speaker 2: indisputable that you have an overrepresentation of people, of Color Particularly,
38:42
Speaker 2: african americans who are sentenced.
38:44
Speaker 1: To death.
38:44
Speaker 2: It's undeniable And The supreme, court says even though that may,
38:49
Speaker 2: be true it will not help Any Individual african american
38:53
Speaker 2: defendant sentenced to death unless they can show that race
38:56
Speaker 2: was a bias in their. Particular case and the only
38:59
Speaker 2: way to show that it's basically getting a secret recording
39:02
Speaker 2: of the prosecutor USING the n word or somehow something
39:05
Speaker 2: that would be just so egregious that would be caught,
39:07
Speaker 2: on tape and that of course never comes. To light
39:09
Speaker 2: but we know the overall pattern. Is there we're letting
39:12
Speaker 2: these biases, run rampant And The, supreme court unfortunately it's
39:15
Speaker 2: given a green light, to them and that.
39:16
Speaker 1: Continues, today Yeah and while this argument was Us about
39:19
Speaker 1: billy's case, in particular and more about the bent of
39:22
Speaker 1: the entire system against, black defendants it was also one
39:25
Speaker 1: that became more pressing at. The time there was a
39:28
Speaker 1: moratorium on executions on the federal level that started in
39:31
Speaker 1: two thousand, and six but it was lifted in. Twenty
39:33
Speaker 1: nineteen the previous occupant Of The oval office spent the
39:37
Speaker 1: last gasp of his power overseeing the first seventeen executions
39:42
Speaker 1: in a generation on the, federal level sixteen by lethal
39:46
Speaker 1: injection and one.
39:47
Speaker 6: By electrocution he's the same person who sought to bring
39:51
Speaker 6: a death penalty Back In New york state many, years
39:54
Speaker 6: ago seeking the death penalty and execution of several young
40:00
Speaker 6: men that were wrongfully Accused In New, york City The.
40:04
Speaker 1: Central park five From The central park five now known
40:06
Speaker 1: As the. Exonerated five and the Fact That billy allen
40:09
Speaker 1: bore witness to these executions from his vantage point as
40:13
Speaker 1: one of the long serving people on. Death row in
40:16
Speaker 1: spite of this remarkable body of, exculpatory Evidence so billy
40:22
Speaker 1: also raised claims of ineffective assistance of counsel for the
40:25
Speaker 1: reasons that we've already laid, out here and of course
40:27
Speaker 1: the gasoline RESIDUE and dna tests that Truly Do. Exculpai
40:32
Speaker 1: billy let's, FACE it.
40:33
Speaker 3: I wrote a letter to, my ATTORNEY and i framed
40:36
Speaker 3: it this way for. A reason, i, SAID basically i
40:40
Speaker 3: about to file. ON appeal I located, DNA evidence i located.
40:44
Speaker 3: GASOLINE results i located all. This evidence had you known
40:47
Speaker 3: about these THINGS before i went, to trial would you
40:50
Speaker 3: have presented these things on? My behalf and he in,
40:53
Speaker 3: his letter in his response, to me he specifically, says
40:57
Speaker 3: yes he would have presented these things had he known
41:00
Speaker 3: about them. Before trial now here's the thing. About it
41:04
Speaker 3: these things were in the records that he handed over.
41:07
Speaker 3: To me there was no way in hill that my
41:11
Speaker 3: trial was FAIR when i had an attorney who specifically
41:15
Speaker 3: responded to a letter that had he knew about, these
41:17
Speaker 3: things he. Represented them but yet he had these things
41:20
Speaker 3: in his possession and never Looked.
41:22
Speaker 1: For yeah we've seen some pretty grotesque examples of ineffective
41:26
Speaker 1: assistance of, counsel before but this is a whole. New
41:29
Speaker 1: level but yet somehow you were denied on that front,
41:34
Speaker 1: as well.
41:35
Speaker 3: All those denials and basically did. A rejection it becomes
41:39
Speaker 3: a burden on, your shoulders. You know so that has
41:42
Speaker 3: been my burden for the last, few years, you know
41:46
Speaker 3: trying to find all, the evidence and Now that i've,
41:48
Speaker 3: FOUND it i can't get people. To listen what does
41:52
Speaker 3: it take for people? To care what does it take
41:54
Speaker 3: for situations? To change and, TO me i guess that
41:57
Speaker 3: goes To The. Georgetown Project the, GEORGETOWN project i felt
42:02
Speaker 3: like ignited a hope and a flame that has, you
42:06
Speaker 3: know basically dimmed over. The years and that was my,
42:10
Speaker 3: first introduction, you Know to Mark and marty into the,
42:13
Speaker 3: you know the Students. At GEORGETOWN and, i asked, YOU
42:18
Speaker 3: know I think I. ASKED mark i, was, like well
42:20
Speaker 3: what is your process of? Picking people and he, was
42:23
Speaker 3: like we go through thousands and thousands of applications and
42:28
Speaker 3: only pick five and yours. Stood out and that meant everything.
42:32
Speaker 1: To me and, of course You mean georgetown's making an
42:35
Speaker 1: exanner re class and remarkably it's an, undergraduate course so
42:39
Speaker 1: you don't have to be a, law student a, forensic
42:41
Speaker 1: scientist or a private investigator to look at some of
42:44
Speaker 1: the evidence, and say wait, a minute how did this
42:46
Speaker 1: actually even go forward? To trial how much less result in,
42:51
Speaker 1: a Conviction, and marty, YOU know i watched the remarkable
42:55
Speaker 1: video that you and your students put together with the
42:57
Speaker 1: making an, exander reclass, of course and those in that
43:00
Speaker 1: class never ceased to blow my mind with, the amazing
43:03
Speaker 1: amazing work that they do semester, after semester class, after
43:07
Speaker 1: class and of course their work has led to the
43:10
Speaker 1: actual freeing of four, people, NOW right I Mean, Keith Washington,
43:15
Speaker 1: Valentino Dixon, eric.
43:17
Speaker 2: Riddick And Now Orlando.
43:19
Speaker 1: Trey, jones right these kids are doing an absolutely. Phenomenal
43:23
Speaker 1: jobs some of them have even come to work for
43:25
Speaker 1: us or have gone on to law school working as
43:27
Speaker 1: paralegals on pro bono cases or. Other nonprofits they are
43:32
Speaker 1: truly incredible assets to this movement, for Justice and i'm
43:36
Speaker 1: so glad that you all Landed on.
43:38
Speaker 6: Billy's case, billy's case, to me it was just a
43:42
Speaker 6: multitude of things that. Went wrong every week that, we
43:46
Speaker 6: live we see another man or woman. Become exonerated and
43:52
Speaker 6: what we also see is that something from the original
43:55
Speaker 6: case went wrong and it was either from The prosecutor
44:00
Speaker 6: lisa's point, of view there were, some wrongdoing, forensic misconduct
44:04
Speaker 6: or incompetent lawyers And in, BILLY'S case i think he
44:08
Speaker 6: had a little bit. Of, everything now.
44:10
Speaker 2: There was someone else who Has seen withholder planning the,
44:13
Speaker 2: bank robbery but that was just. Never pursued there was
44:16
Speaker 2: an anonymous tip that we don't know much. More about
44:19
Speaker 2: we just know that the initials of the SUSPECT, are
44:22
Speaker 2: dm and obviously That's Not BILLY. Allen dm but we
44:28
Speaker 2: don't know more and haven't been able to find out
44:30
Speaker 2: more because it's been kept, Under wraps but that very
44:33
Speaker 2: well could be the second Person who holder.
44:37
Speaker 1: Is PROTECTING, there's DM there's Jb as, billy mentioned and
44:41
Speaker 1: a whole lot of potential avenues if you could just access,
44:44
Speaker 1: These materials but they've been fighting it every step of.
44:48
Speaker 1: The way now there was renewed efforts to TEST the
44:51
Speaker 1: dna evidence against other, potential suspects which was the focus
44:54
Speaker 1: of your filings in. Twenty twenty not only is there
44:56
Speaker 1: this bloody strap that excludes you and the victim that
44:59
Speaker 1: they refused to RUN through codis or test against, anyone
45:02
Speaker 1: else there's also the matter of a damp cloth that
45:05
Speaker 1: was found near the fence where the second suspect Escaped From.
45:08
Speaker 1: Forrest park they tested IT for dna and it, excluded
45:12
Speaker 1: you but have since sealed. Those results i'm sure if
45:16
Speaker 1: they Had, matched billy we wouldn't be having this conversation.
45:19
Speaker 1: Right now so how have those efforts gone?
45:22
Speaker 3: Thus far thanks? About us every year from the FIRST
45:25
Speaker 3: year i filed, pro say my lawyers, Have filed we've
45:28
Speaker 3: done everything we could to get them to basically do all,
45:31
Speaker 3: the testing and my judge basically has refused every, single
45:35
Speaker 3: request and the prosecutor has opposed every form. Of testing in,
45:41
Speaker 3: MY case i can't get.
45:42
Speaker 2: Nothing tested if we could TEST that dna against other,
45:45
Speaker 2: possible suspects who knows what would come up in. This
45:48
Speaker 2: case but there's such, A conspiracy, i mean that's not
45:52
Speaker 2: too strong a word to say that police and prosecutors
45:55
Speaker 2: have in just ceiling tight, a conviction even if it's the,
45:58
Speaker 2: wrong one even if there's evidence that proves that it was.
46:01
Speaker 3: A mistake my case is in one of Those where
46:03
Speaker 3: i'm just asking, people to, you know take a chance.
46:06
Speaker 3: On me i'm asking people to believe in my evidence
46:09
Speaker 3: and fight.
46:10
Speaker 1: For me so that's where this is at. Right Now
46:12
Speaker 1: and billy and his team are fighting this on, two
46:14
Speaker 1: fronts trying to get access to those, biological materials as
46:17
Speaker 1: well as seeking a Pardon From. President biden there's a
46:20
Speaker 1: petition among so many other action steps linked in. The
46:23
Speaker 1: bio but go, there now. Don't wait go to, the
46:25
Speaker 1: bio click, on it sign, the petition and in addition
46:30
Speaker 1: to all, of that there's the making an. Exanay video
46:32
Speaker 1: please check all of. It out we also encourage you
46:35
Speaker 1: To join billy Supporters this November, AND washington dc for.
46:38
Speaker 1: A rally you Can follow Billy. On instagram It's free
46:42
Speaker 1: BILLY B i L L i E allen A L
46:44
Speaker 1: l e n So free billy all to. Receive updates
46:47
Speaker 1: and now we go to our closing where first, OF
46:49
Speaker 1: all i thank all of you for. Joining us i'm
46:51
Speaker 1: just gonna kick back in, my chair turn my, microphone
46:54
Speaker 1: off and just listen for any closing thoughts that you.
46:56
Speaker 1: All have let's Start, with Mark, then martyn And then
47:00
Speaker 1: billy over to you to close.
47:02
Speaker 3: This Out.
47:02
Speaker 2: Thanks jason billy is an. Extraordinary person he, is warm he,
47:06
Speaker 2: is caring he, is funny he, is compassionate he, is,
47:11
Speaker 2: dedicated hardworking and he's. Incredibly TALENTED and i got to
47:16
Speaker 2: see a lot of. HIS artwork i actually have some
47:18
Speaker 2: of it now in my Office. At Georgetown but billy
47:22
Speaker 2: is himself a beacon of light and hope for. This
47:27
Speaker 2: world AND what i really hope more than anything is
47:29
Speaker 2: that the rest of the world will Discover the Billy
47:32
Speaker 2: that i've come to know, and love and to recognize
47:35
Speaker 2: his talent and to appreciate, his humanity and that hopefully
47:40
Speaker 2: he'll have that opportunity to connect with the world as a.
47:42
Speaker 2: Freeman soon this.
47:44
Speaker 6: Is TRUE things i want people to. Understand well for
47:48
Speaker 6: convictions is. An epidemic in twenty, twenty one we had
47:54
Speaker 6: one hundred and seventy three exonerations that were Recognized By
47:58
Speaker 6: national Register. Of exonery twenty, twenty two we already have
48:03
Speaker 6: one hundred and. Seventy three billy should be added to
48:07
Speaker 6: that list in the. Near future our system can't function
48:12
Speaker 6: if we keep convicting, innocent people and when there's evidence
48:17
Speaker 6: that somebody was, denied justice we let them languish in
48:22
Speaker 6: prison day after day.
48:25
Speaker 3: After day.
48:27
Speaker 6: The day has to Come where billy gets his day.
48:30
Speaker 6: For JUSTICE and i look forward to the Day where,
48:33
Speaker 6: mark myself our students can be waiting outside of a
48:38
Speaker 6: prison somewhere like we have for four other individuals To
48:43
Speaker 6: watch billy walk out.
48:44
Speaker 3: Of prison i'm not just somebody who's saying, they're innocing,
48:48
Speaker 3: You know i'm somebody who can show You that. I'm
48:50
Speaker 3: innocent and, TO me i feel like that shitting night people,
48:53
Speaker 3: to say you, know what let me go to bat for.
48:56
Speaker 3: This guy, You know, i'll get, you know letters from people,
48:59
Speaker 3: Say hey i'm praying, for You and, i'm, like, okay well,
49:01
Speaker 3: YOU know i appreciate, the PRAYERS but i need you to,
49:04
Speaker 3: speak out, you know because you need those voices in
49:07
Speaker 3: the high places to be able to hear that you.
49:09
Speaker 3: Do CARE and i feel like the more people who
49:12
Speaker 3: show that, they care the more the system is going
49:15
Speaker 3: to have to care and gonna have to give us
49:17
Speaker 3: the testing that we're looking for and allow the evidence
49:20
Speaker 3: to be the thing that motivates you to want to
49:22
Speaker 3: go out there and fight for me to want to go.
49:24
Speaker 3: Out there and, you know every time you're on, social
49:27
Speaker 3: media instead of posting about the new foods, you're eating
49:29
Speaker 3: to be able, to, say hey you, know What Free billy.
49:31
Speaker 3: Allen period, you Know, in november we'll be going TO,
49:36
Speaker 3: d c, you know to basically do a MARCH on
49:38
Speaker 3: dc to present, my Case and i'm hoping that people
49:41
Speaker 3: start raising their voice and have an influence when we
49:44
Speaker 3: do file our Petition, to biden to be able to make,
49:47
Speaker 3: him say you, know what we're always asking another country
49:50
Speaker 3: to do right by. Their citizens we fail this guy.
49:53
Speaker 3: Right here let us do the right thing now and
49:55
Speaker 3: return him to. His FAMILY and I guess i'm going
49:59
Speaker 3: to read you SOMETHING that i think will help you
50:01
Speaker 3: kind of GATHER who i am in, my journey and
50:05
Speaker 3: it's called longe soldier to find myself engaged in the
50:10
Speaker 3: conflict that some have deemed to be a battle between
50:12
Speaker 3: good and evil in a desire who they have labeled.
50:15
Speaker 3: The latter this battle is not one where thunder's ward
50:19
Speaker 3: will be heard fought about a stinch of gun smoke,
50:22
Speaker 3: charred flesh nor where blood stains will tak the same
50:24
Speaker 3: round with footsteps travel to. The, froe no this battle
50:28
Speaker 3: is one that is rooted in the blood lines and
50:30
Speaker 3: bloodshed that painted the stripes red and in the blue
50:33
Speaker 3: sky there are weighed, fifty stars which are at times
50:35
Speaker 3: saluted or draped over the caskets to the. Fallen, heroes
50:39
Speaker 3: NOW because i know that there are those who like
50:41
Speaker 3: to take one's word out of context with. Malicious, intent
50:45
Speaker 3: no there's no way in my claiming the role. Of
50:47
Speaker 3: hero i'm just one who has been wrongfully imprisoned and
50:51
Speaker 3: who wishes to defend myself against those who have brought
50:54
Speaker 3: this battle to. My doorstep and in, DOING so i
50:57
Speaker 3: plan to defend myself against, the lies misriperdsons pat in
51:01
Speaker 3: advances to take my life into pretense. Of, justice NOW
51:04
Speaker 3: after i expose, this injustice if you then deem my
51:08
Speaker 3: actions to be that of, a hero know that IT
51:10
Speaker 3: is i who will not make such. A claim this
51:14
Speaker 3: battle will take place on what many have deemed to be,
51:17
Speaker 3: sacred ground or what some have said to be the
51:21
Speaker 3: foundation of, our society without which will cause chaos and
51:25
Speaker 3: leave in its. Path destruction and that battleground is the
51:28
Speaker 3: constitutionist as amendments to oversee, this battle to ensure that
51:32
Speaker 3: it's conducted without a hint, of, bias favoritism nor that
51:36
Speaker 3: it will be tainted with the temptation of power or.
51:39
Speaker 3: Financial Gain Is Lady, justice yet to, my disbelief though
51:44
Speaker 3: she is suposed to stand out front of the symbol of,
51:46
Speaker 3: FUNDAMENTAL fairness i could have SWORN that i thought her
51:49
Speaker 3: tip the scales of justice in favor of, my foes
51:52
Speaker 3: who already have, superior, power resources and who will attack without.
51:56
Speaker 3: Malicious FORETHOUGHT though i know that the odds are. IT'S
52:00
Speaker 3: me i do not waiver on, my STANDS and i
52:03
Speaker 3: hold tight to the hilt of my sword of truth. And,
52:05
Speaker 3: evidence well my evidence is the material which it has been.
52:09
Speaker 3: FORCED in i close, my eyes say, a PRAYER and
52:13
Speaker 3: i can only Hope that god Hear my please is
52:16
Speaker 3: out those stones, that golive and IT is i who
52:19
Speaker 3: am the. Long soldier.
52:27
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52:30
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52:33
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52:40
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