Latest / Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano / Claiming Our Voices with Machan Taylor

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Claiming Our Voices with Machan Taylor · Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano

• Lyndsay Soprano (00:01) This is Giving Pain Purpose, where we talk about the game of living in and with chronic pain and trauma. I'm your host, Lyndsay Soprano. On this show, I sit with the warriors, loved ones, doctors, holistic practitioners, and those who walked through hell and want their voices heard. You don't have to heal quietly and you don't have to fight alone. Today's episode is dedicated to those who feel that they have lost their voice, to those who feel like they can no longer sing, that they can't express their truth, whose stories might be muted, their lived experiences not believed or untold. So today we will sing together and claim our voices after years of hiding behind the mask of performance. And speaking of masks, at a very young age, we found that I had a singing voice. I was going to be Miss Christine Dayer and Phantom of the Opera, and I absolutely could have been. I was a coloratora, I had an amazing vocal coach. Not that you would think I'm a colorator right now with this low, raspy voice today. I got into opera programs all over the country and I could be a thespian. But after my first year in college, I changed my tune and went the business and entrepreneur route instead. But I was raised to make sure that I always needed to be able to take care of myself. But it takes moxie to follow the quote unquote American dream of becoming famous at anything, whether in the performing arts or in the C suite. All of our dreams are different. I do grieve my dreams of being on stage, often crying in the audience when I go to musicals, watching everyone's legs dancing, their feet in character shoes, voices belting, but I also am grieving the body I once had. The one that I live in now. I feel like my identity has been stolen from me with my diagnoses, and I'm searching to find who this Lyndsay is. So how do we find ourselves again? My guest today has stories to tell as she traces a path from post-war Japan to New Jersey suburbia to finding her voice. She is a singer, songwriter, educator, and author. Whose career took her to some of the world's biggest stages with Pink Floyd, Sting, Foreigner, Pat Banatar, yeah, baby, George Benson, Michael Jackson, and more. All of this while wrestling with identity, race, trauma, reinvention, and healing. Her journey from Japan to the limelight became Naked Out Loud, a memoir with extraordinary music stories at its core, and a deeply human conversation about what it means to be Asian American. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my beautiful guest today, Machan Taylor. Hello, my darling. Machan Taylor (02:53) Hello, Lyndsay. So good to see you. Lyndsay Soprano (02:56) so good to see you too. So I'd like to start, if we could, with the little girl that was put on a big boat that was wrenched from her life and culture that was familiar to you. And then let's take it from there. Machan Taylor (03:09) Yeah. So you know, going back quite a few years now, post-World War II, Japan, late forties after the war, obviously, and then into the 50s. I was born in Yokohama to my Japanese mother and my American father, who was army-based, you know, he was in Japan during the occupancy of Japan after the war. And so my Mother was a singer, believe it or not, and she sang American jazz and show tunes. So so here she is post-World War II, singing with little jazz groups around Tokyo and Yokohama, and ended up, you know, singing in the officers club on the army base in Yokohama, which is where she met my father. So You know, it's it seemed like a very Hollywood romantic kind of story, that you saw in the movies, you know, but Lyndsay Soprano (04:13) Like Miss Saigon and all that. Machan Taylor (04:16) Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, after a a few years, my my dad decided to retire from active duty. He found a job in New York City as a civil servant. Basically, he was a what do you call safety engineer. He worked for OSHA. So we had to move from Japan to the United States. I was four and a half years old. We left Japan. left my grandmother who I loved. I and I was very close to my aunts and uncles and cousins and all my family in in Japan. you know, Japanese was my first language. It's all I knew. It's all my four and a half year old tongue could speak. You know, the food, the environment, all of it was my first impressions of life. Yeah. And then we boarded a a military ship. Traveled from Yokohama to San Francisco and then by train across the United States and ended up in New Jersey. So it took me a long time to realize that, even though I, of course, I knew my story, but it took me a while to really go back and figure out that that was a huge upset in my little life that. it's like a domino effect. I think when you have a trauma, even if you're unaware of the effects of it, or it starts to affect everything. It's sort of like the background music in your life or the drone that sort of is just there all the time under the conscious level. And, you know, I it took me many, many years to figure out that that move and being stripped of my identity at that early stage, and then having to figure out how to be in in this culture, in this world that was so unfamiliar to me and and was also kind of unfriendly because even though it was nineteen sixty when when we settled in in New Jersey. There were still a lot of anti-Japanese feelings. And my mother experienced discrimination. My older sister experienced it. And and I did too. Those kinds of experiences really leave a lot of scars. So I struggled for a very long time trying to figure out well, how how do I fit in into this world because I'm not fully Japanese and I'm not fully. white, you know, my father was Irish English and a little Italian in there somewhere. So, you know, I'm a mutt and and you know, I could Lyndsay Soprano (07:09) But they come a lot. Machan Taylor (07:13) Thank you. And they say mutts are strong, right? Lyndsay Soprano (07:15) That's right. They sure do. Machan Taylor (07:18) So but but as a child I you know, it was hard for me to kind of figure out what my identity was. Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (07:27) And I would expect that to be so incredibly hard, even at such a young age, because I remember a very vivid experience that happened to me when I was two years old. It was actually like the first long word that I said. I was looking out at a sunset at my parents' house at my my birth father and my mom at the time, and the first word that I said was extravagant. And Machan Taylor (07:49) Big works. Lyndsay Soprano (07:50) I didn't say dad or mom. I'm like, let's get through all the single syllable words and let's just jump. Right on into extravagant. But I remember being too and saying that, looking at these windows. And so when people are like, How could you possibly remember what that was like? And my mom actually did the opposite of you. She was at four, got on a boat because her father, my grandfather, was in the Navy and went over to Germany. And so she did the same thing at four years old. And I had talked to her about this and what she remembers. And she remembers nothing. about it, which is really interesting to me because I think we the way in in which we interpret our world around us is different for every one of us. Machan Taylor (08:31) Mm. And also I think, you know, when those traumas happen at such a young age, we we block them out. We block out the effects of it because it's painful. Lyndsay Soprano (08:41) Sure. Yeah. Especially the language barrier too. I mean, even when we travel, I'm gonna be staying in Italy for a month in January. And Machan Taylor (08:50) So nice. Lyndsay Soprano (08:51) but I don't speak the language. I'm just now starting to take Italian lessons. But it's it's overwhelming as an adult to go and you're in a restaurant, you have no idea what what anything on the menu says. You don't people are talking so fast and you know, all of those things. So as you've studied and you're going through school and you're you're going down this path, you have this mother who has a has a beautiful singing voice and is doing all of this. And we find that you also have this gorgeous voice. But your family dynamics that you had, what your father was doing, what your mother what happened to your mom and your dad, can you speak to us a little bit on? There's I know that you're an empath like myself. And so we're definitely more sensitive people. Every little thing around us, it's just like a butterfly flies by and I'm like, my gosh, I could weep. Like it's just like I feel so sensitive all the time to everything around me. But talk to us a little bit about some of the scars of your family dynamics, because I know that you had some problems with your father specifically, but and also how your mother was raised is too. Machan Taylor (09:51) Yeah, so it's pretty complex, you know, like any like any family story, I think. My father, you know, having that job in New York City and us living in the suburbs, he took the train to New York City every day. And back in the day, there were bar cars on the trains. Yes. Full blown bar cars, you know. And my dad ended up I mean, I think the problem was there probably long before this, but My father ended up being a pretty raging alcoholic. And and then also a womanizer, a gambler. He he obviously was having a good time at the expense of the f of the family. But it it made things really, really difficult for the family. And my mother being, you know, being Japanese, very much a What's the word I'm looking for? Not co well, I guess codependent would Lyndsay Soprano (10:53) Yeah. Machan Taylor (10:55) would work, you know, and a martyr. Lyndsay Soprano (10:57) No yes. Machan Taylor (10:58) you know, she basically became a victim in a sense. I'm I and that's not to say she didn't have a choice, but given her background and given the times, you know, she just ended up having to take care of so much regarding. the family, our health, the house, keeping a roof over our heads because she eventually had to get a job because of all my father's gambling debts. And, you know, we were we were at a certain point in dire straits with a lien on the mortgage of the house and all kinds of crazy stuff that, you know, my father ended up doing. So it was a very dysfunctional household to grow up in. So it it if it felt like a very lonely place to grow up in. And you know, it wasn't really until I found music that that became my world and my sanctuary and a way for me to escape what I was feeling in that house that I grew up in. Lyndsay Soprano (12:11) Yeah, I identify with that a lot bec being a fellow singer myself. I didn't sing with Pink Floyd or Michael Jackson, but being somebody that has that I use my voice so differently now than what I did. Now I'm doing it like this versus singing how I was raised. And so I have to look at that positive side of it. But like I said in the opening, I I grieve a lot of what I've lost with what's happened to my bod. And it's it's It's been an identity struggle as well for me to be like, who who am I in this new body and what am I gonna how am I gonna be? How am I gonna show up in this world? Cause I had so many different visions for what I was gonna be like when I was my age and where I was gonna be living and what I was gonna be doing. And all of those little dreams are are have basically been shattered. My life is beautiful and I'm incredibly grateful for what I have. It's just not what the movie in my mind was, you know, which I that's another misagon, little I love that song. and so you've had this like you had this life lifelong ache, I think is something that you had mentioned of just not feeling fully belonging to where you were. And music ended up coming into your world to help you with that. Can Machan Taylor (13:24) Mm-hmm. Lyndsay Soprano (13:25) you talk a little bit about why performing and why music really just took a hold of you? Because that is so beautiful. Machan Taylor (13:33) Yes, yeah, it's so true. and before I talk about that, I just wanna clarify I did not sing with Michael Jackson. I worked on the Jackson Victory Tour as a production assistant in nineteen eighty four. So I did work on a tour with with him and his brothers, his family, but I didn't sing with him. That would Lyndsay Soprano (13:52) you're right. That's right. In the book. Because I remember you have a picture with him and I was like, my God, that's so cool. Machan Taylor (13:58) Yeah, I do have yeah, I do have a picture with him in the in the book. So anyway, this kind of all goes back to grammar school really. My parents sent me to Catholic school when I was in grammar school. And so I had to go to church, you know, every week and I was in the choir and I be eventually became a soloist and I started singing at weddings and funerals and You know, started making a little money and and I was hooked. You know, hey, I could sing and I can make money. This is really cool. Lyndsay Soprano (14:32) Right. Machan Taylor (14:34) So that's really how it kind of started. And and then eventually by the time I was twelve, thirteen years old, I was teaching myself to play guitar and I was writing songs and then I started singing in coffee shops and little gigs at school and and one thing led to another and I eventually got into bands when I was a teenager. So, you know, it just it gave me a sense of purpose. It gave me a sense of identity. And it made me feel like I had something to offer the world. And it was sort of filling the whole, the incredible hole of loneliness and, you know, confusion as a teenager. And a feeling of not belonging. So all of a sudden I had a place to belong and I found my people, my tribe, with musicians and and at that time it was a lot of long haired hippies. And sort of counterculture, you know, people, but that I've I felt like, okay, I I feel good here. This is this is working. I love that. Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (15:49) Well, and you know, when you're when you're on stage, you're you're playing a part to a certain extent, right? You can kind of get lost in that too when you're in a in the process of trying to find your identity. What was it like touring and what was it like working with these big celebrities, these big fancy rock stars? Like How was that for you in your life? Like, were you scared to be on the road with people reading your book and like where you were sleeping on the bus and stuff? I was like, my God, I'm so scared for her. Cause you were surrounded by guys the whole entire time. It's like, here she is, just like off driving across the nation with Duke Floyd. Like, what? That's insane to me. Machan Taylor (16:28) Well, luckily with Pink Floyd, there were two other women, you know, two other two others two other singers. But yeah, you know, I it just felt like such a natural place for me to be. But again, we have our personas and we have the internal life, you know, of our identities and our internal struggles and the emotional and spiritual selves that the the world may not necessarily be privy to. And at that point, you know, in my twenties and thirties in particular, you know, I hadn't done all of this you know, therapeutic work that that I've done now. You know, I've had many, many years of therapy and many years of working on myself now. But at that time, you know, I think I struggled with The persona that that was me on stage and me and all of these glamorous gigs that I was doing and and grateful to have done. But then there was the internal me that felt very insecure, that felt like imp I was an imposter, right? Which is such a typical thing for a lot of performers, is the imposter syndrome. Lyndsay Soprano (17:47) Yes, it is. Machan Taylor (17:49) Not feeling good enough. you know, all that stuff, all of those in a way, very human insecurities. But at that time I don't think I had the tools to deal with those internal conflicts that were happening like I do now. Lyndsay Soprano (18:06) Yeah. I know for me, one of the reasons that I actually didn't follow the pathway of going into singing and getting into a band and doing all of that stuff that I really wanted to do was because I have I I've always had problems with alcohol. I've done my drugs, I've done my share of all of that stuff too. I did not want to end up being an Amy Winehouse. I didn't want to end up being on the cover of Rolling Stone because I killed myself in front of the Viper Room, right? Like so there was There was this from a very young age, I knew I come from a family of alcoholics. I come from a family of some abuse. Like it goes, you know, goes on and on. And I just know myself well enough at such a young age that I knew that if I it went down that road, I might get myself into some pretty icky situations when it came to specifically alcohol and drugs. So how was that like for you when you were traveling? Because I don't know of one rock star that does not does not have some kind of a drug and alcohol story behind them. Yeah. Machan Taylor (19:08) Totally. yeah. Listen, it you know, especially in the eighties, it was, you know, it was that was the lifestyle. That was the way it was. And I definitely had my my bouts with heavy drinking and cocaine use in the eighties, you know. I was never a pot smoker. It just never agreed with me for some reason, you know, and which is good. so I was never a smoker. and and probably because I am a singer and I I just never liked the whole idea of smoke in my lungs and all of that. But I definitely had my bouts with alcohol and drugs. And it was, you know, it was the environment. And, you know, bravo to you for for being cons so conscientious about that aspect of yourself to You know, not allow yourself to get into that scene because it's very seductive. And you know, I'm just really lucky that I didn't go so far down the rabbit hole that I ended up dead or something. You know, I mean, I don't think my abuse was ever that bad. I think it was habitual. I think it was part of a scene and it was part of the environment, but when I when I got out of that environment, you know, by nineteen eighty nine or something, I wasn't I was out of that, you know, phase of my life, you know. And that's not to say I don't drink anymore. I'm ever I have wine every once in a while, but the drug use and that kind of madness that was sort of happening in the eighties, I was able to leave all of that behind. Luckily. Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (20:55) Yeah. And that that in of itself is kudos to you because then there's that part of me also that says, I actually still kind of have this feeling inside me like that I still would have been somebody like Amy Winehouse, or I would have been somebody that would have would have had some fame, would have had and so that I grapple with that on a day-to-day basis, that while I'm singing in my house all day long, because that's my soul food is I'm singing. Like when my husband leaves the house, I crank up the music and I'm singing until he comes back home. Right. And it That is my it is my soul food. and so it's like this Gemma Gemini, right? So it's like, I don't know what side is we're fighting with each other all the time, the devil and the angel. And there's this like, I still should have done it, whether I ended up dying doing it or not. And then the others ones, you made the right choice. You know, like it's it's Machan Taylor (21:43) It's Lyndsay Soprano (21:44) it is part of my identity and things that I struggled with on who the heck am I? And I don't necessarily think that we just have this one time where like this is who I am. I certainly wasn't given a map at birth. You know, I've gone through every kind of rocky situation that is pro basically imaginable. Some of it's my fault, some of it is not. But it it's it's shaped who I've been along the way. But being to able to identify like this is who Lyndsay is, I don't even know if I'm ever gonna get there. Machan Taylor (22:14) You know what I mean? It's so interesting that you're saying that because I you know, I knew I was meeting with you today and I was just thinking, I don't know why this popped into my mind, but I was just thinking about how we are all multipli is that is this a word multiplicitous? Lyndsay Soprano (22:33) make it one even if it isn't. If they can put L O L and B T W in the dictionary, they'll put this word. Machan Taylor (22:43) Yeah. So the thought behind that is that we I think we all have the capabilities of so many different talents and so many experiences in our lives, right? you know, you've been through a lot of things. I've been through a lot of things in my life. And now when I when I look at, you know, where I am now and the fact that, yeah, okay, like you introduced me as singer, songwriter, educator, author, I'm like, my God. Lyndsay Soprano (23:12) Those are all of those things. Yes. Every single one of Machan Taylor (23:16) Did I do that? You did yeah. So but but I think we all have multiple talents and multiple aspects to ourselves that that are part of our identities. Whether it's you're you're a cook, you're a gardener, you're a yogi, you know, whatever whatever it is we have, and we all have lots of different talents, and we all have So many journeys and stories along the way of our lives. If you're lucky enough to live long enough, you're gonna go through a lot of different experiences. And I think that's, you know, the beauty and the power of story. Our stories are what bring us together and and help to unite us as humans, right? I think it's so important to share our stories. Lyndsay Soprano (24:12) Absolutely. This is exactly why I love doing podcasts because it is, it is what we're telling our stories. And there are things that I have uncovered and things that I have shared with my audience and my guests and stuff that I never ever would have thought that I would have said out loud. Like what? I have shared just the most intimate parts of me here. Because if I'm asking my guests to be real and raw and true and open and honest and all that, I gotta be able to do the same. And so it's opened up parts of me that have been shoved down for so many years. Stuff that I don't even didn't even remember. And then all of a sudden I do some psychedelic therapy, which I know you've done as well. And out pops this I knew something happened. And now I actually have like the proof and the full memory of it, albeit one of the saddest things ever. It's now here and I can kind of work with that and I can start to heal from those things. And it's not overnight, it's not a straight line, you know. Machan Taylor (25:03) That's right. Yeah, for sure. Lyndsay Soprano (25:05) And to give yourself some grace because you're gonna fall and stumble and you're gonna hurt and you're gonna find out more about yourself if you are willing to start doing the work. And that that's the scariest part of it is just opening the door and walking out and going, I'm gonna go take that leap of faith and I'm going to try to heal the wounds that you don't even necessarily know what they are. That's what's so crazy about it too. And when you're a performer, right? You're you are like I was saying earlier, you're on stage and you're this person. But that doesn't necessarily mean like everybody that looks at me just thinks, my God, she's always happy and go lucky. That is absolutely fucking not true. Like I come back home and I'm I'm I'm a scared, shy. I don't like going out in public all that much. Like I there's this element of me that's completely opposite of what you're listening to right now and seeing right now. And I've I've struggled with the there was something that I read in your book about telling the truth about the life behind the applause. And that we have this, you know, facade, our phantom of the opera, our masks that we show around and how we act around certain people. It's a little different here. Like when I'm with my family, I'm a little different over here. And and it's just crazy, this like this calculations that we're making in our day-to-day life that we don't necessarily want to show all of our wounds. But we're showing them right now. And and but I I I I am trying to find beauty in those instead of hatred of them, which is how I used to live a lot with. And that's where a lot of my alcohol abuse came from too. Cause I didn't really love who I was. And now I do. And so that's that's a really interesting shift that's happened probably over the past 10 years, but more so over the last five. Oddly enough, those five years have been, well, I've been doing the show. Machan Taylor (26:58) Good for you. Good for you. And you know, it I think it takes a lot of courage to do what you're doing and to say what you're saying, you know, and and I I didn't know you did psychedelic associate therapy too. I wanna I wanna ask you about that. I'm gonna turn the podcast around. Lyndsay Soprano (27:15) Gosh, woman. Yeah, because performing can become l you also said this in your book. Performing can come from like can be protection and prison because you're stuck in this. great. This is how everybody thinks that I am all of the time because I'm performing, but behind closed doors, I'm a complete mess or whatever it might be, you know? Right. How did you how did you handle that balance in between those two? Because I know you were working on yourself little by little along the way without you even knowing that you were doing it, because we're all doing it. Yeah. So how how can how can you speak to that? Machan Taylor (27:47) Well, yeah, and and I can identify with what you said about hating certain parts of yourself or your story or whatever the case may be at one point. Mm-hmm. And that's when I was in my twenties and thirties, I think that's sort of where I was. where I felt like, I have this, you know, amazing exterior life, but I really hate I felt so ugly and and horrible inside at that point in my life. And, you know, that's probably why a lot of performers have, you know, or fall I wish should say fall into the trap of alcohol and drug abuse. Because there also many people are in this profession, the entertainment for profession, are dealing with those co internal conflicts. Lyndsay Soprano (28:39) Right. Machan Taylor (28:40) because w no one, no one, I you know, whether it's Who whoever you wanna pick. Nicole Kidman. I don't know why she just came to mind. Me or I don't know. I don't know. I saw her on Instagram or something recently. So but whoever, whoever the case may be, no celebrity, no star, no politician, nobody in the public eye is that person that we see fully. It's an aspect of them. Yes, of course. It's an aspect of them, but it's not who they really are internally, right? and that's another, you know, going back to what I had mentioned earlier, how we are multiple aspects of a being, right? We all have different ways that we are, whether we're in public or with our family or with a close friend or with your husband or wife or whatever the case may be, we do have different ways of being, right, in those different moments in our life. So I think I got off track with your original Lyndsay Soprano (29:51) You're doing good. No, you're doing good. You're losing right on back. That's okay. We're still on the right path, Mama. Yeah. Machan Taylor (30:00) Okay, okay, good. Yeah, just reel me in if I need to if I need it. But yeah, I think in you know, early on in my twenties and thirties, I think drugs and alcohol were a way to soften the pain that I was carrying internally, right? and then it was wasn't really until I think getting into my forties that I really started digging deep into my therapeutic process and and healing. And and then in my sixties, getting into the psychedelic assisted therapy work, which wasn't that long ago, I started really during COVID, which was a crazy time to do Lyndsay Soprano (30:47) Kidding. That is a crazy time to do it. My Lord. From Machan Taylor (30:51) You did, you did. Lyndsay Soprano (30:52) a healing perspective, since we're kind of going that direction anyways now, when we talk about healing our wounds and healing things that have happened to us, everybody has multitude of stories that come with them. And like I said earlier, that the healing's not a straight line, it's not linear. You can't just like, I'm gonna read this book and bam, I'm gonna feel much better. If anything, I sometimes feel worse because I'm like, wow, I have more to work on myself than I thought I did. And with every guest that has a book, I love to read them instead of just getting the one sheet. And so you have just beautiful language throughout the whole and it's very visual. I can be I'm part of it. You put pictures throughout the whole thing and it's it's just it's it's really lovely to see all of those things. I know you had a tumultuous marriage with somebody who was abusive to you, you know, similar story on my side. I'm not married to him anymore, and also you are not either. And getting rid of these toxic. People in our lives is absolutely number one part of what my journey has been. And it's been hard to do, very hard to do. Yeah. Machan Taylor (31:52) Yeah, yeah, it it is hard work. But I think, you know, the process of our own healing when we're really doing the work, it starts to manifest in our lives. So we start seeing the results of our healing in the reality of our lives. So getting rid of toxic people, moving out of relationships that don't serve us or are are Dangerous even to us, right? it it's yeah, I can look back and see how, and it's only in hindsight that I see, okay, I did that work and my life changed. Lyndsay Soprano (32:34) Yes. Machan Taylor (32:35) You know, because I can see, like I've been with my my current husband, gosh, tw 25 years or something, maybe more, all together. But so that so that my first marriage is a long, long time ago. And that that experience of being in an abusive relationship is it's it's almost like somebody else's life. You know, it's hard for me to to imagine myself there and who I was at that point. So which is good because I know that I've grown tremendously over the years. Lyndsay Soprano (33:11) Absolutely. And it gives our listeners and also myself, it gives us hope, you know, because I was also in a lovely toxic and abusive marriage. And getting out of it was a very scary thing to do. It was the it was a matter of life and death kind of a situation. And I I I look back and go, how in the hell did I A stay that long? Or how did I put up with all of that for so long? And then I think back and I go. The entire time all I was doing was trying to survive and make sure that I was gonna get out of there alive. And putting all of those little pieces together that I didn't really realize that I was doing. But now I look back and g reflect on it and go, my gosh, I was doing a lot more work on myself than I give myself credit for. Machan Taylor (33:55) Right. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. And it is in hindsight that we see that, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I know. Lyndsay Soprano (34:02) Like they always say the cliche about, you know, how do you eat an entire elephant? You do it a bite at a time. And it's seriously the truth. You have to like, I can't just go and we're split ski. Like there were all kinds of things that needed to happen and be set in place to make sure that I was gonna be okay. And quite frankly, that he was gonna be okay. But I was the one still trying to make sure that he was gonna be okay. And so learning about people pleasing and learning about what a control freak I am, and learning about where those things come from. Right. From my from past traumas and that current trauma when that whole entire situation was going on. I I've learned so much from my guests about resilience and strength and honesty and truth and storytelling. And it's just it makes me want to keep doing the same thing, you know, because you're inspirational to me, of course. Machan Taylor (34:46) No. Thanks. We are. That's it. Lyndsay Soprano (34:49) I usually cry at least one time on an episode. Machan Taylor (34:53) So sweet, thank you. Lyndsay Soprano (34:56) So when we come to healing for your healing journey, obviously, like I said, you've been you've been healing along the way without really knowing that you were. But when you really started to get into, you started doing some different different types of things you got into. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you got into? Like Machan Taylor (35:09) You want to know about the psychedelic Lyndsay Soprano (35:11) I do, I want to know about that. But also you got into practicing Buddhism and you went into meditation, all these other tools that were are now in your backpack that have helped you particularly heal. Machan Taylor (35:21) Yeah, well, the meditation, the Buddhism that came a long time ago. That was when I was trying to get out of my first marriage. And yeah, there's a story in the book about Wayne Shorter and his wife. And for those of your listeners that don't know who Wayne Shorter was, he was a legendary jazz saxophone musician. Unfortunately, he's passed in the last several years, but At the time I was in a group called Hiroshima that is an LA-based band that I was in after Pink Floyd. So this is like 1989, 90, 91, 92, that time frame. And we were playing the Hollywood Bowl, the Playboy Jazz Festival, and Wayne Shorter was on the bill as well, and he saw me sing with Hiroshima. And Then like a week or so later, I get this call from an a a guy in in the business side of the the industry and Wayne had tracked me down, found me through his accountant or something, and wanted to invite me to his house because he was thinking about having vocals on his next record. And he was interested in me singing on his record. Which unfortunately it didn't happen, but it it doesn't matter because when I was at his house and he was playing me all these ideas for his upcoming record and so on and so forth so forth, I had a beautiful afternoon with him, musical afternoon. And then before I left his house, he said, I want to show you something. And he took me to this room in his house where there was this huge altar and what they call a butsudan. And it was time for his evening prayer session. So he and his wife and I think there were a coup a couple of other people that were there and they I just sat in the room with them and they had pillows, you know, meditation pillows that scattered about the room and they started chanting Namyoha Rengekyo is the chant. And it was so magical and so moving. And I just I s my h I remember my whole body started to buzz from the sound. And it just felt so amazing. And I wanted to know more. And that was sort of my introduction to starting to practice Nitsharandeshon and Buddh Buddhism with with Wayne and his wife. And And then consequently with you know a num number of other people. But that was sort of the beginning of my journey into practicing Buddhism, researching different kinds of Buddhism. I've practiced Shambhala practice, which is a Tibetan practice, I've practiced, you know, ja other Japanese traditions, zazen, which is more of a silent meditation, but it's all about spiritual practice and Finding ways to, if you will, center myself, connect with if you want to call it God energy or spirit, your higher power, however you want to identify it from me. It it is my way of connecting with I what I feel is God. Lyndsay Soprano (39:02) Yeah. And you know what's so interesting is the full circle from leaving Japan and leaving that the cultures and then coming almost full circle to having it come back into your life. Yes. In a totally different way. It's kind it's it's really beautiful. Machan Taylor (39:17) Yeah, yeah. You're that's really good. I hadn't really thought about that, but yes, yes, it was sort of a full circle. Lyndsay Soprano (39:25) Me for parties and bar mitzvahs as well. Machan Taylor (39:29) Lyndsay. that's hilarious. yes, yes, in a way it was full circle coming from Lyndsay Soprano (39:35) And then you ended up getting into later on in in your healing journey, you got into the guided psychedelic parts. Machan Taylor (39:41) Yeah, okay, okay. So yeah, so you know, I had been researching and reading and exploring the idea of doing psychedelic assisted therapy. Took me a long, long time to find the right person to to do the work with. Obviously, at the moment it is still illegal in in many states, in in the states, there are few where it is legal to do psilocybin and mdma. It is not in New York right now. So I had to find where and how to do it. And I did find someone and my first MDMA journey during COVID was absolutely mind-blowing, transformative, and incredibly healing. It was so much more than I had ever imagined it would be. And In that first journey, it took me back to Japan. It took me back to that little girl self that got left there and that original trauma. And I was able to reunite with that little girl, me, Lyndsay Soprano (40:57) Yeah. Yeah. Machan Taylor (40:58) and to do the healing of that initial trauma in my life. And I've done, I've done, you know, several other journeys along the way since then. And I just find with the right setting with the right person and done in the right way because this is not recreational. Lyndsay Soprano (41:16) No, no you're not dropping Molly. Very different. Yeah. Machan Taylor (41:18) No, no. It's very different. It's very serious to me. And it's very sacred work to me as well. So I don't take it lightly and I don't, you know, proselytize that everyone should be doing this because not everyone it's not right for everyone. And and also you really need the right guide. You re need the right facilitator, the right person to work with you, you know, because it is very transformative. Lyndsay Soprano (41:48) I love that. And we had an an episode earlier in the season specific on psychedelics and what's happening in the United States and how and and our journeys on his name is Zappi. If you guys haven't listened to that episode, it's a must because actually you would love listening to it as well. It is Machan Taylor (42:02) Well Lyndsay Soprano (42:03) apps, I learned so much about just what you were talking about. It is so incredibly sacred. And the the the things that people get out of it are just it you can't even believe it. And I've been talking about wanting to do legitimate like ayahuasca, like going to Peru or going to Costa Rica. I've been talking about doing this for quite some time now. And then this gentleman came into my life. And I feel like this particular season, there are people that are coming in right now that I have needed. And it's like the right time and it feels so amazing. And I if if you're open to it and your heart is open and you're curious, I feel like things will start lining up with you instead of blocking off like, you know, I don't want to do the woo woo. Okay. Stop say calling it woo-woo. Okay, I'm sick of that. Go hop back on your opioids. Be constipated. Go do that. Cause that sounds better. All right. Machan Taylor (42:54) Right. Exactly, exactly. Well, and also this is not, I mean, for people to call it woo-woo, you know, primitive cultures have been doing this work for thousands of years. Right. Well who are we? Lyndsay Soprano (43:07) The the frickin' white people of the United States need to just get out of the way. Machan Taylor (43:12) Exactly. Lyndsay Soprano (43:14) Making me insane. Machan Taylor (43:18) I love it. I love it. Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (43:21) So before we go, and this is in the beginning of your book, actually, and regarding her book, this is what I f I what she wrote. She said, I humbly strip down the layers of my being, expose some tender spots, abandon fears and surrender shame while losing face for you to have and hold however you will. I hope this is my best career performance yet as I sing my song to you in naked out loud. I told you I was gonna cry. Machan Taylor (43:47) Thank you. I'm gonna cry and cheese by Lyndsay Soprano (43:51) But it's true, and it's a lovely book. And I would everybody can kit pick it up. It's on Kindle and Amazon, of course, and you can grab it. It's called Nake It Out Loud, and it's a beautiful piece of work. So thank you for sharing it with the world and with Machan Taylor (44:05) Yeah, you can listen. Lyndsay Soprano (44:07) find our beautiful Machan at M-A-C-H-A-N-E. T-A-Y-L-O-R. And it's the same on Facebook, Instagram. It's geez, Louis, the Instagram is very, very long. It is our first and last name and official at the end of it. We'll put all this in show notes and in our email marketing, of course. And it has just been a pleasure to have you here today. Is there anything that you'd like to leave us with before we jam out of here? Machan Taylor (44:33) No, just keep doing what you're doing. It's beautiful and I'm just so happy to be a part of it. So Lyndsay Soprano (44:39) thank you so much. Well, you're just another you're just another wonderful story that's in my my story book. So I think you Machan Taylor (44:46) Thank you. Thanks so much, Lyndsay. All right. Take care. Lyndsay Soprano (44:50) You are exclusively invited to share this finding your voice again VIP pain journey together. Let's get to the heart of how to heal with you by mine and Machan side. Please follow Giving Pain Purpose wherever you digest your podcast content. We will be there. Visit us at givingpainpurpose.com and follow us on all the socials. Thanks for listening, my little VIPs. Catch you on the other side.