Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1197 - When Your Child Has No School Friends

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#1197 - When Your Child Has No School Friends · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: You have a child who, after a couple of weeks
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  Speaker 1: of school being back, is saying, don't want to do
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  Speaker 1: it anymore. I don't like it. I've got no friends,
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  Speaker 1: I hate school, no one's nice to me. Doesn't make sense.
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  Speaker 1: I want to stay home. School anxiety, school refusal or
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  Speaker 1: emotion based school avoidance. So many families are struggling with it.
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  Speaker 1: The numbers are rising, as they have been for the
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  Speaker 1: last couple of years. Today on the Happy Families podcast
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: what to Do when your Child doesn't want to go
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  Speaker 1: to school. Hello and welcome. We're so glad to have you.
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  Speaker 1: Along with the Happy Families podcast Real Parenting Solutions every
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  Speaker 1: day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin
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  Speaker 1: and Kylie Colson and every Tuesday on the pod we
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  Speaker 1: answer your tricky questions. They don't come much trickier than
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: this one. If you'd like to submit a tricky question,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: we've got a super simple system at Happyfamilies dot com
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: dot Au. Just scroll down to podcasts, click the record button,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: start talking. A couple of people recently have said that
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: they haven't had success with that. You can send us
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a voice memo, or you do is open up the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: voice record app on your phone, talk to that and
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  Speaker 1: then send it to podcasts with an s podcasts at
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  Speaker 1: Happyfamilies dot com dot au Kylie. Here's today's message.
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  Speaker 2: I'm using AI as I'd like to remain anonymous and
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  Speaker 2: not have my voice on the podcast. Our eleven years
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  Speaker 2: old is so anxious about going to school as she
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  Speaker 2: has no friends. She's cried so many times the last
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  Speaker 2: two weeks over having to attend school and is flat
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  Speaker 2: out refusing to go. She doesn't do any extra curricular activities,
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  Speaker 2: hate sports. We've tried multiple things, and she doesn't last
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  Speaker 2: past a few lessons if she doesn't find someone she
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  Speaker 2: meshes with, or if she doesn't like the coach or teacher.
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  Speaker 2: We also don't have the spare funds at the moment,
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  Speaker 2: even if she wanted to do anything. We aren't religious,
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  Speaker 2: so any sort of youth grind is out too. Her
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  Speaker 2: social anxiety is through the roof. She refuses to do
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  Speaker 2: any new activities, so this makes it hard to introduce
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  Speaker 2: her to new things. I'm just at such a loss
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  Speaker 2: as to how to help her, short of intensive therapy,
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  Speaker 2: which again we can't afford. Anyway in which I feel
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  Speaker 2: we can help her involve spending stupid amounts of money.
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  Speaker 2: How do you get your child help when funds are
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  Speaker 2: minimal or none.
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  Speaker 3: This is so tricky for parents across the country, across
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  Speaker 3: the world. We struggle seeing our kids challenged, and we
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  Speaker 3: struggle seeing them in a hard place, so hard, and
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  Speaker 3: the friendship challenges that our children experience especially tug at
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  Speaker 3: the heart strings because I think all of us, at
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  Speaker 3: some point in our lives have experienced that feeling of loneliness,
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  Speaker 3: that feeling of being isolated or excluded, and we don't
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  Speaker 3: want our kids to experience that.
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  Speaker 1: Data shows that loneliness is increased, and you know who's
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  Speaker 1: most affected by it, our youngest people. Like it's the
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  Speaker 1: most hyper connect hyper connected time in the history of
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  Speaker 1: the world, and yet so many kids are feeling so
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  Speaker 1: so lonely. We've been there, We've experienced the whole school refusal,
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  Speaker 1: school avoidance, emotion based school avoidance is the technical term
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  Speaker 1: for it. It's so hard. There's another element to this
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  Speaker 1: in addition to the heartbreak, and that is having a
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  Speaker 1: lack of resources and thinking, if we had some more money,
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  Speaker 1: maybe we could try this, Maybe we could take them there,
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  Speaker 1: maybe we could have this assessment done, maybe we could.
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  Speaker 1: And because of the cost of living challenges that so
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  Speaker 1: many people, almost everybody struggling with right now, it just
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  Speaker 1: adds another layer of complexity and a layer of feeling helpless,
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  Speaker 1: feeling like you're out of control. So for our anonymous
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  Speaker 1: listener who has sent this through, we feel your pain.
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  Speaker 1: We have some suggestions and some ideas that could be helpful. Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: I've got a couple of things. I know you've got
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  Speaker 1: a couple of things. Why don't you kick it off first,
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  Speaker 1: and then I'll add some ideas around that.
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  Speaker 3: I think the harsh reality for all of us, whether
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  Speaker 3: we are eleven, twenty two or in our fifties, friends
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  Speaker 3: don't usually land in our lap. No, they actually require
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  Speaker 3: a whole heap of intention and time.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should highlight here we don't know what
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  Speaker 1: has happened in this family, Like there might be a
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  Speaker 1: lot of time, effort, and intention going into building friendships
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  Speaker 1: and it's just not working. We don't know, but they
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  Speaker 1: do take work. You can't just have a friendship land
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  Speaker 1: in your lap.
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  Speaker 3: And research which support that it takes more than two
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  Speaker 3: hundred hours of intentional time. It's not we're hanging out
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  Speaker 3: in class together, or we're in a group with fifteen
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  Speaker 3: other kids. It's two hundred hours of personal interaction with
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  Speaker 3: somebody before you would consider them a close friend.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like you've taken my job as the doctor.
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  Speaker 1: You're talking about the science. The research that you're referring
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  Speaker 1: to is something that you and I have talked about
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  Speaker 1: a number of time. Tis because adult friendships are tricky
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  Speaker 1: as well. And there was a there's a university professor
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  Speaker 1: at the University of Kansas. His name's Jeffrey Hall, and
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  Speaker 1: he published a report a couple of years ago now
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  Speaker 1: that showed that it takes roughly fifty hours of time
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  Speaker 1: together to move from being a mere acquaintance to a
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  Speaker 1: casual friend. Fifty hours to say, oh, yeah, we're friends.
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  Speaker 1: But it takes to go from that basic friend status
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  Speaker 1: to being a genuine close friend, Like you said, two
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  Speaker 1: hundred hours. And that's not two hundred hours of sitting
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  Speaker 1: next to summoning class. That's two hundred hours of intentional
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  Speaker 1: activity and side by side time time face to face,
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  Speaker 1: side by side, going camping, or you're spending time on
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  Speaker 1: the weekend having a picnic or playing in the park
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  Speaker 1: or whatever, Like it's genuine time together, building your relationship,
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  Speaker 1: not just being near each other.
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  Speaker 3: So when you look at the friendships that are flourishing
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  Speaker 3: in the school playground, I would suggest nine times out
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  Speaker 3: of ten, those friendships exist outside of the playground as well.
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  Speaker 3: They're being fostered by families who are coming together on
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  Speaker 3: the weekends after school for play dates, and they're actually
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  Speaker 3: spending intentional time together outside of the flurry and activity
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  Speaker 3: of the school, classroom and playground. So I know that
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  Speaker 3: it sounds like this all lands in mum's lap. It
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  Speaker 3: kind of does. That's the sucky thing about this. It
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  Speaker 3: actually does.
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  Speaker 1: Especially if you're a child who's really struggling to make
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  Speaker 1: it work without that parental invention. It's just too hard.
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  Speaker 1: You've got to get kids into your backyard or into
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  Speaker 1: your living room or at the park down the street
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  Speaker 1: with some parents supervising and being around while the kids play.
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  Speaker 3: But the amazing part of this acknowledgment is it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: cost a cent. It doesn't cost a cent to be
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  Speaker 3: intentional about making opportunities for your children to have experiences
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  Speaker 3: with other kids.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, let's get really concrete about it. What specific things
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  Speaker 1: can parents do in that situation You've done this a
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  Speaker 1: lot more than me. What have you done?
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  Speaker 3: So I would suggest that your child has a handful
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  Speaker 3: of kids that they would love to be friends with.
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  Speaker 1: They usually do, and that they may have some level
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  Speaker 1: of acquaintance, but.
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  Speaker 3: If they can't give you any clarity talking to the
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  Speaker 3: classroom teacher about the children that she spends time with
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  Speaker 3: in the classroom or the children that they feel she's
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  Speaker 3: more suited towards. Because sometimes we're inclined to want to
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  Speaker 3: go to the popular kids because they're larger than life
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  Speaker 3: and that's where we see the party at. But the
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  Speaker 3: reality is they're they're not our people. We don't fit
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  Speaker 3: into that space. But there are other kids over here
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  Speaker 3: that we've missed because there's so much flurry over here.
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  Speaker 1: I want to put an exclamation mark on what you've
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  Speaker 1: just said there. We do need to get to the break.
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  Speaker 1: But this is so important. Having watched our six daughters
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  Speaker 1: go through various iterations of school over the last twenty
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  Speaker 1: years or thereabouts, there are so many kids who sit
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  Speaker 1: in class and who are at a practical level. They
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  Speaker 1: are almost invisible because they're not the popular kids, and
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  Speaker 1: they're also not the unpopular kids. They're just kids. Who
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  Speaker 1: are in class, who people almost don't notice. They're everywhere,
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  Speaker 1: there are so many of them. This little girl may
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  Speaker 1: be one of those kids. Finding another one or two
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  Speaker 1: kids like that could be the answer, because they don't
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  Speaker 1: need heaps of friends, no, just one.
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  Speaker 3: And so once you've got an idea of the children
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  Speaker 3: that your child would be best suited with, then the
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  Speaker 3: next step is reaching out to the parents. So it
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  Speaker 3: may be just as easy as sending a little note
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  Speaker 3: off to the teacher with some invites for a couple
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  Speaker 3: of friends and inviting them over for afternoon tea.
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  Speaker 1: Or do what we've done and say here's our email adress,
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  Speaker 1: here's our phone number. Can you just give this out
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  Speaker 1: to all the parents, because there's obviously privacy laws and
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  Speaker 1: we can't ask for theirs and you're literally just include
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  Speaker 1: a note and say, I've got a girl in the
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  Speaker 1: class who really would like to be friends with your kids.
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  Speaker 1: We thought we might do a little play date. Would
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  Speaker 1: you be up for it? If your child would be
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  Speaker 1: happy to do it, can we please play?
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  Speaker 3: And one of the other things that I really love doing,
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  Speaker 3: especially in the holidays, creating a little craft day or
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  Speaker 3: something the kids really enjoyed having a handful of friends
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  Speaker 3: over and doing some kind of structured activity because for
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  Speaker 3: new kids coming together, they actually need some structure around
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  Speaker 3: their friendship.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be the whole time, but if
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  Speaker 1: they get together and do an hour of craft and
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  Speaker 1: then they have another hour of playtime, it ticks every box.
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  Speaker 3: So we've done lots of different things over the years.
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  Speaker 3: We've had little cooking classes where the kids have been
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  Speaker 3: able to bake some cookies and then decorate them once
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  Speaker 3: they've called down, which gives them time in between to
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  Speaker 3: have some play date. We've done painting days. We've just
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  Speaker 3: had a pool, you know, hangout and they've played a
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  Speaker 3: whole heap of games in the pool. And we've also
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  Speaker 3: done Easter days or you know things like that where
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  Speaker 3: you can actually kind of theme it.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, calendar date or something like that. The break
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  Speaker 1: a handful of other ideas that my work. If those
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: things aren't quite resonating for you on the Happy Families podcast, Okay, Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: my response to this is a little bit different to yours.
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  Speaker 1: You've taken the approach let's see if we can build friendships.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe we've tried before, but if we go with these angles,
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  Speaker 1: we might be able to get some kids over or
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  Speaker 1: spend some time at the local park, but we can
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  Speaker 1: get the kids face to face, side by side, doing activities,
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  Speaker 1: building the relationship, maybe something could work. My approach is
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  Speaker 1: slightly different. The first thing that I'm going to suggest
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  Speaker 1: is to the degree that you can, recognizing that funds
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  Speaker 1: are limited, I think that it's worth going in getting
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: things checked out medically. When a child is struggling that much,
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  Speaker 1: it's worth just checking is there anything going on with
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: neurodivergent challenges? Is there anything happening from a psychological point
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: of view that we're not aware of. Getting in to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: see the GP and just exploring that initially can give
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: you some direction. The second thing that I want to
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: emphasize is just how important this thing called school belonging
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  Speaker 1: is and working with the school on it. What do
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  Speaker 1: I mean by this, Well, there are two relationships that
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  Speaker 1: really matter at school. The first one, and I've talked
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  Speaker 1: about this in the podcast quite a lot as school
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  Speaker 1: has commenced this year, but I'm going to emphasize it
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  Speaker 1: again real quick. The first one is there one kid
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  Speaker 1: at school who when your child enters the school gates
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  Speaker 1: sees them and says, hey, come sit with us. That's
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  Speaker 1: what it means to belong and working with the teacher
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  Speaker 1: with that specific goal in mind, or the school guidance
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  Speaker 1: counselor or the school chaplain, whatever that welfare person is,
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  Speaker 1: that wellbeing person is in the school working with them
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  Speaker 1: to identify one child who is open to taking on
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  Speaker 1: the responsibility and finding the joy in seeing your child
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  Speaker 1: and saying, hey, come sit with us. Children who have
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  Speaker 1: that are happy to be at school. They look forward
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  Speaker 1: to being at school because they know that they're being noticed,
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  Speaker 1: they know that they belong. But they also one other
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  Speaker 1: thing in terms of relationship, and that is an adult
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  Speaker 1: who notices them, who calls them by name, and who
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  Speaker 1: was able to have a quick chat with them about
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: something that's going on in their life. It might be
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: something in the classroom. It could be the cross country
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the other day, how'd you go? It might be Hey,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I heard that this thing's happening, and I know you're
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: interested in it. Are you're going to try out for?
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter so long as there's an adult,
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  Speaker 1: usually the school teacher, who says, hey, Kylie, it's so
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: good to see ye. Hey, what happened the other day
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: with that audition you were trying out for, or how
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: did you go the other day at the swimming carnival.
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  Speaker 1: I know that was something that you were really really
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: hoping to do well in. I didn't get to see
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  Speaker 1: your races. That interaction with an adult combined with a
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: child who says, hey, come sit with us. What a
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  Speaker 1: difference that makes. So I'd be working with the school
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  Speaker 1: directly and asking what can we do to support my
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  Speaker 1: child to build these two relationships. The last thing I'm
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: going to mention is the importance of third spaces. So
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: you've got home, you've got school, and this is where
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: that whole question money comes in. We've tried extra correct activities,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: but she won't do them, and we've tried extra correct activities.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I can't even say the word anymore, but we don't
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: have any money anymore. In our experience, our children, when
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: they do extracurricular activities, they don't tend to say, oh,
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  Speaker 1: I've got friends and I want to spend more like
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: two hundred hours with them. They just do that activity
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and that's often all there is. So finding a third space,
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  Speaker 1: which is usually going to be the neighborhood or maybe
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the park down the road, or if you live near
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the beach, it could be that finding a place where
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the kids can hang out with other kids and enjoy
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: each other the third space is so valuable.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: You mentioned a couple of weeks ago about a guy
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: that you had been listening to in your feed who
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: suggested that when his kids came home from school, he
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: wasn't concerned about whether or not they spent time with
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: other peers. He actually wanted to foster relationships with other adults,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: people that they could glean from and learn from. They
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: could have mature conversations with models. Yeah, and so in
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: this situation, maybe there's a grandparent, maybe there's an auntie
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: that maybe there's a friend down the road who has
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: a little bit of extra time on their hands that
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: they could spend with your daughter as well. I know
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: that sometimes that seems a little bit left field, But
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  Speaker 3: for me growing up, the people that I loved spending
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: time with most were the people who lit up when
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: they saw me walk into the room.
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  Speaker 1: Because you had some friends, but not heaps of friends.
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  Speaker 1: But you used to spend a whole lot of time
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: with Donna, who lived two doors down, and you spend
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of time with Jill, who was the
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: mum of one of your friends, and they were really
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: your best friends, right, that's who you look forward to
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: hanging out with after school.
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  Speaker 3: And because like I said, they lit up when when
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: our kids were a little bit younger, they had a
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: piano teacher, Carol, And as soon as she walked into
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: the room, no matter what we were doing, her whole
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: face like she's her whole face Sean into my house
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: and she just elevated us because we felt like we
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: were literally the most important people in her world in
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: that moment.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of a lot of content, a lot
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: of answers that we've given here, building friendships, bringing adults
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: in as friends, creating space as third spaces for kids
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to develop those relationships, checking out additional needs, looking at school, belonging,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and the one that we haven't mentioned, it's just more
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: time with family so valuable because that's the relationship that
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: matters more than any other. It is a tricky question.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: We definitely can't be comprehensive in the time that we've gotten.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: We will have to wrap it up there because we've
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: gone well over time. But we hope that that's been
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a useful suggestion for people who are struggling with school
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: refusal around relationship issues. If you'd like to submit a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: tricky question, please send us a voice memo to podcasts
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au or visit us
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot A you to submit
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: your questions there. The Happy Families podcast is produced by
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. More information and more resources
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: are available at happy families dot com dot au