Latest / Identity at the Center / #268 - Identiverse 2024 Preview with Andi Hindle

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#268 - Identiverse 2024 Preview with Andi Hindle · Identity at the Center

0:05
This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with
0:10
IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and
0:17
Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the
0:23
Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
0:25
Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you?
0:27
Not so bad yourself. Oh, not so bad.
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It's reading an article. So how would you like me to open
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up a can of worms in the banter that we won't be able to solve
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and could take a lot longer than normal?
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Isn't that pretty much how we start every show?
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Yeah, so Martin Coopinger released an article.
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Friend of the show Martin is and the article is about Siso,
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Cheeto, CIOCDOI don't know but you know TuneIn on that Cheeto.
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So anyway, he also put kind of a cool diagram.
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So he talked about I am and digital identity of course.
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So digital identity on the top, I AM on the bottom In between
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would be identity security. So I'm thinking identity
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security is more like the ITDR monitoring kind of thing.
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Anyway, so the alignment of those things is digital identity
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is the Cheeto and the responsibility areas where
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enabling modern customer journeys and decentralizing
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identity. The Seeso had cybersecurity and
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therefore improving security. So I am ad libbing the ITDR
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piece, but kind of like modernizing, hardening identity
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identity systems and then the head of IAM reporting to the
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Seeso would have modern authentication and modernizing
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IAM. So here was my beef on this,
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right, because it's kind of like modern authentication,
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modernizing IAM was almost like very almost tactical identity
2:10
security with the Seaso. I'm not even sure I'd buy in on
2:14
that. I do think ITDR was like is it
2:18
identity or is it your sock and kind of overseeing you know
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threats and potential breaches etcetera.
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But then with this Cheetah role it was like enabling modern
2:32
customer journeys and decentralized identity.
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Now, I could definitely see the organizations where
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decentralized identity is the thing unto itself, which is not
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I am for your organization, managing, provisioning,
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managing, single sign on. Like they couldn't be more
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different. When you talk about somebody
2:48
like a MasterCard enabling decentralized identity, I mean
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that's a strategy on how to enable their business for the
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next generation. But then when you go to
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something like enabling modern customer journeys, I don't know,
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I think that could easily fall within the head of IM.
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But really it's kind of like a marketing function or whoever's
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responsible for that customer facing system.
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I mean that's the business side. The IM team seems to be the
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technical side enabling that. The technologies are often quite
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the same with IM system. So that was my.
3:29
Anyway, I think it's great that Martin threw this out there
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because, you know, here's what this is all about.
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It's like throwing ideas out there so that people can talk
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about them and criticize them. And you got to have like a
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little bit of a tough skin to do that.
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And I think that Martin's got that and he doesn't care if,
3:45
like, people disagree. He welcomes it.
3:48
So what do you think? Well, you just talked for, let's
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see, 3 minutes straight and you threw out a whole bunch of stuff
3:55
out of only which I remember a couple things it seems to me.
3:58
Read me the description again of the Chief Identity Officer, the
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Cheeto. So I wasn't going to go all the
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way into the description 'cause I was down on, I'm looking more
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at the diagram. So it was like within their
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blurring lines of responsibility that the cheetah would have
4:14
enabling modern customer journeys, OK, and decentralized
4:18
identity. OK.
4:19
So that definitely strikes me as it's consumer focused, right?
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There's already a line being driven between enterprise
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identity and access management and consumer identity and access
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management. That's how I see that
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definition. When you talk about consumer
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journeys now unless it's specifically said the consumer
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is any consumer of those journeys, which yes, of course,
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right, employees are people too. And I hate to say it, but
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sometimes contractors are people too as well.
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But I don't, you know, I I'm not looking at what you're looking
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at. I, I, I I don't know how to
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respond to it because they think there's so much context that
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gets lost without having Martin on here to explain it.
5:00
Maybe. Maybe we'll reach out to Martin
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and get him on for a show and talk through this.
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He's usually willing to do that. We've got a guest today who I
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I'm, I don't think we're going to be able to get through our
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topic without allowing him to feed on on this.
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So we will ask him the question, but let's wait until he's
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introduced and everything because we have a couple things
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to go through before we we introduce him.
5:24
Yeah, I mean, there were some emphatic head shakes, nods,
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shakes, left, right, up, down. You name it, it was there.
5:31
But let's talk about Identiverse first, because really, Hey,
5:34
that's what we're gonna talk about today.
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Identiverse. We've got Andy Waite in the
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wings, but we wanna get our plug out there.
5:39
People use our our discount code.
5:41
For those who aren't aware Identiverse 2024 is coming up.
5:46
It is May 28th through the 31st. It's gonna be at the Aria again,
5:49
the resort and Casino in Las Vegas, which is a very cool
5:51
location. Definitely support any
5:52
conference that's gonna be in Las Vegas.
5:54
We've got a discount code for all of our wonderful listeners
5:57
out there around the world. If you use the code IDV 2 four
6:01
dash IDAC 25 just rolls right off the tongue, you get 25% off
6:07
of your registration and that does stack with any earlier bird
6:10
discounts. So if you want to get the
6:12
maximum savings right there, the sooner you register the better.
6:15
We'll have link in our show notes.
6:16
You can go to idoniverse.com and find more information there.
6:19
But in our show notes, we'll have a link and the conference
6:22
code again there so that people can take advantage of that and
6:25
hopefully enjoy the conference. I know Jim and I, you're going
6:28
to be there. We've got things planned and
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let's see anything else before we get to Andy.
6:33
My jacket arrived for the identity show, so I'll be easy
6:38
to spot. No matter where I am on the show
6:40
floor, people will be able to find me.
6:43
I'm going to not announce what it's going to look like yet,
6:46
though. Does they have an identity at
6:48
the center logo on it? Definitely not.
6:51
OK, so that's idea for a next jacket in the future.
6:55
It's like like a fighter jacket, right?
6:56
When you come out of it, you know, come out to the ring, you
6:58
know the the boxers and and stuff like that.
7:00
They have like a jacket. A robe?
7:01
Yeah. Oh yeah, that's a good idea.
7:04
OK, well, let's get to Identiverse 2024.
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Very excited to have Andy Hindel back with us.
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He's the conference chair for Identiverse, friend of the
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program. Welcome back, Andy.
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I am utterly delighted to be here, although rather like you,
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I've now got a list of about 27 things that I want to say and
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get to. And I'm like, you know, starting
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with a robe. I think.
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I think robes are the way forward.
7:27
I'm also curious about the discount code.
7:29
I'm thinking forward to next year and I'm thinking do I have
7:33
to go to marketing and see if we can create a 26% code?
7:37
Because it's 2425 this year, right?
7:41
So does next year have to be IDV 25, Dash IDAK 26?
7:45
I'm like, I don't know. 263040 Hey, at some point you're going
7:50
to ride a runway here. So you probably want to think
7:52
about scaling. You know that to some degree.
7:54
We're very look we we've we've partnered with Idaverse in the
7:57
past and it's always been a great experience for us and
7:59
we're happy that we're able to kind of extend that out for our
8:02
listeners and hopefully people take advantage of it, right.
8:04
And there's lots of discount codes out there, but it's a
8:06
great way to kind of support us on the podcast.
8:09
Andy, you were shaking your head left, right, up and down when
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Jim was talking about the the things that that Martin
8:16
Cooperner had put out there around Chief Identity and CISO
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and the role of identity security.
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What do you want to start with, 'cause we're going to talk about
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identivers, but I want you to get it off your chest and just
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let's get let's get into it. That's very kind of you.
8:28
So like it's it's really interesting because we actually
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had pretty much exactly this conversation a year ago Adelaide
8:37
universe on the Mainstage, right.
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So we had Ian Glazer and Doctor Heather Hinton and a couple of
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other folks join us up on the Mainstage to talk about is there
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a role for a Chief Identity Officer and if so, what does it
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look like and are we ready for it.
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So I'm delighted that that conversation is happening on a
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broader scale and I'm equally delighted that Martin is, is,
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you know, putting his thoughts forward.
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And there's a lot that I agree with, right.
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I think the thing I was shaking my head about most was the
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identity security thing in the middle.
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So I think we tend to think of this more often than not as how
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do I use identity constructs to protect, to provide
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cybersecurity, right. And absolutely that's important.
9:30
I think you know that that's where things like identity
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threat, textual response come in.
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Ian's talked about this at some length too.
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I think there's the other side of this, which is how do we
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protect our identity systems and our identity data.
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And some of that is by using these identity constructs, but
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some of it is not. And so I think there's a missing
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piece in the middle there which is the, the flip side of that of
9:55
that you know, discussion. The other thing is I think it's
9:59
worth bearing in mind that from so outside of North America, you
10:04
look at what's happening in Europe politically in terms of
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the advent of digital wallets and citizen level digital
10:16
identity and those kinds of things.
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That changes a little bit or at least it influences the way that
10:21
that you talk about these things that you have these
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conversations, right. The reality is that I think
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consumer level use of digital identity is probably going to be
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a little bit ahead in in Europe than it might be in other parts
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of the world with a possible exception of Australia And the
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Nordics have been there for some time, right?
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Not necessarily with decentralized wallets and all
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the rest of it, but they've had citizen level, you know, with
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high, high levels of engagement of of you know kind of digital
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identity constructs for a long time.
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So what's interesting is again we tend to think of this from a
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consumer perspective, but actually the workforce use cases
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and especially in large you know, global enterprises that
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have transient or high percentage contractor
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workforces, there are some really, really oh and in the
11:15
regulated industries, right. There are some really
11:18
interesting use cases around things like proving right to
11:20
work, proving you know, certain professional qualifications
11:26
within the regulated industries, demonstrating that you have, you
11:29
know, the right kind of compliance that you've done the
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right, you know all of those things, those are all workforce
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use cases and they are equally important, just maybe not as
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exciting as some of the consumer oriented use cases, but what my
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guess is we're going to get to the workforce stuff first versus
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the consumer stuff. So here's my problem with with
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this and I feel a little bit like George Casino's Danza.
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I got a lot of problems with you people.
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So here's the first one is I feel like we are limiting the
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role of a chief I, you know, digital identity officer
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artificially to just this is a consumer facing thing only.
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And I don't know if that's the intent or maybe that's just kind
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of what I'm what I'm thinking or reading through this.
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I have not read through through Martin's article.
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And I was only going off of, you know, 3 minutes of Jim saying it
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to me while I'm trying to pay attention.
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But I don't, I don't necessarily agree that that's a limit that
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should be in place at least artificially.
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Maybe that's the right, you know the right way to split it out
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for an organization that yes, they have a huge B to C
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component, What if they have a big B to B component, partners,
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dealers, agents, right, things like that.
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I could certainly see an identity officer for that.
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I think you would have to be relatively massive as an
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organization if there was a Chief Identity Officer for an
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enterprise, meaning you know your traditional sort of we have
12:50
these employees and we have a handful of contractors or
12:52
consultants and things like that.
12:54
But you could certainly make a case if you're you know mature
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enough along that scale where yeah, we do want to have a
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better experience for our identity, you know internally
13:02
for our stuff. But that's just kind of like my
13:05
gut reaction to it. I mean again you know we're
13:07
we're kind of just shooting at the hip here without having gone
13:10
into much detail with it. But I I'm not, I'm a fan of the
13:13
role. I think anything that gives
13:14
identity a a better seat at the table or even a seat at the
13:20
table is a great thing. Representation is awesome.
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What I don't like to see are limits on where and what that
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person is responsible for from an identity perspective, because
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I don't think we've even agreed as a industry, what the heck
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does digital identity mean versus identity and access
13:36
management, right. We did that episode a long time
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ago. We got, we got 10 different
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answers then we've asked a few times since then.
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We've gotten different answers every time we ask it.
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And I think context matters in this case.
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Jim, you started this hullabaloo.
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What are your thoughts, having heard Andy and I talk now?
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I think Martin's got it right that the Cheeto would focus more
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on emerging technology that's outward facing.
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So I I think I don't think it's all thing customers, the Cheeto,
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all things internal as the SISO or the head of IEMI think that's
14:14
too simplistic. I, you know, enabling customer
14:17
journeys doesn't seem to me like it's like groundbreaking stuff.
14:22
I do think where a Cheeto makes sense is like hey we see
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identity as something that's going to enable our business.
14:29
I use the example MasterCard, yes, that's where you need
14:33
somebody who and do I think that person should be responsible for
14:37
Active Directory Single sign on Like no, that's just a a task
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that they would need to do like they're they've got to stay
14:45
focused on growing their business using digital identity.
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So I guess that's that's where I I think he's got it right.
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But where I think he's got it wrong is like enabling customer
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journeys seems almost too tactical as well and and it's
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enabling tells me it's like oh somebody kind of comes up with
15:02
the new customer journey. Now I've got to make the
15:04
software do that. That seems very tactical.
15:07
All right. I I I think we're on the same
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page, at least close enough. Andy, what do you think are are
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are we all talking the same thing?
15:14
We. We shockingly, we have
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consensus, yes. Who could have predicted it?
15:18
No, I think, I, I think you're on to something actually there
15:22
Jim. And I, I was thinking in the
15:23
background that I think this is about to some extent getting
15:27
identity out of the role that very traditionally it's been in,
15:32
which is somewhat bracketed inside of the security
15:36
organization, right. And try as you might if that's
15:40
where you report up to, if that's where that function
15:43
reports up to, by definition it's focuses on you know,
15:46
reactive security, right, protecting the business as
15:50
opposed to proactively enabling the business, right.
15:53
And I think that that change needs to happen not necessarily
15:58
within the industry, but actually outside it.
16:00
And so for me a role like a Chief Identity Officer or at the
16:03
very least saying look, you know our, our Chief Digital Officer,
16:07
we're going to make, we're going to make you know, security
16:10
report, sorry, we're going to make IM report directly over
16:12
there with a dotted line into security, right.
16:15
That would even that sort of shift would help because it then
16:18
enables us as an industry to go out and talk about all of the
16:21
wonderful customer journey things and enablement things and
16:24
protection things and yeah, all of that that we already know we
16:28
can do right. It's just we don't necessarily
16:30
get the opportunity to to help the business understand that.
16:33
You know, I think this would have been a great identiver
16:35
session. It's a good thing we're
16:37
recording this so people can listen to, you know, us
16:39
pontificate about this. And Jim was kind enough to drop
16:42
the link to me just now. So now I'm looking at the
16:43
article. When I see kind of where, where
16:45
where it's going, I'll put the link in our show notes so people
16:48
can check it out. It was a, it's a LinkedIn
16:50
article that Martin Cooper had put out on March 12th.
16:53
Who should be in charge of IAM and what's the role of the C?
16:55
So I'm looking forward to getting into a little more depth
16:58
after this, but I don't want to spend the entire thing, you
17:00
know, talking about this role. But I think this is probably a
17:04
good teaser because they, these are the sort of conversations
17:06
that actually happen at a conference.
17:08
They happen and you know, at Identiverse, when you have a lot
17:10
of people show up that have opinions and there's a lot of
17:13
networking and just general identity shenanigans kind of
17:17
going around. Andy, you know, I guess you're
17:21
the conference chair. How are things going?
17:23
How's the planning for Identiverse coming along?
17:26
And then I guess give us the, you know, what's the, what's the
17:29
sales tactic here? Why is Identiverse better or
17:33
different than other identity conferences that are out there?
17:35
Yes, thanks for that. This is why we have a marketing
17:38
team who are wonderful and can actually answer that question
17:40
much better than I can. But yeah, look, so it's the show
17:46
is now big, right. I mean last year we were nudging
17:49
up towards you know two and a half 3000 people will be above
17:52
that. This year it's it's large and so
17:56
that means that the planning effort is significant.
17:59
So there's a degree to which we're kind of in in the last
18:02
mile of marathon at this point, it's coming together really
18:05
well. I'm incredibly excited about the
18:08
agenda. I say this every year.
18:10
Frankly, I'm always incredibly excited about the agenda.
18:12
It's always a huge privilege to be able to sit and look at all
18:17
of the proposals that people put into the call for presentations
18:21
and to then help you know those presenters through the process
18:25
of getting their material ready together with, you know, the,
18:27
the content committee that that we have.
18:30
But the agenda's come together really well.
18:31
It's up on the website, almost all of it is there.
18:34
There's a few things that will change.
18:36
So obviously people need to be alert to that.
18:39
We've got some, you know, interesting keynotes and again
18:42
more details will emerge. So keep your eyes out on the on
18:46
the the agenda on the website as that comes together.
18:50
Lots of fun things happening around the edges, lots of
18:52
wonderful sponsors and and you know vendors on the show floor
18:56
and you know all of all of those identiverse things You asked the
18:59
question right at the end about you know what what makes
19:01
identiverse different. And I think there's there's a
19:05
couple of things. One is we try and have for for
19:09
for years we've focused on making sure that we have a high
19:13
quality content rich experience. I talked about the call for
19:18
presentations a minute ago. For people that don't know,
19:21
about 80% of our agenda is constructed through the call for
19:25
presentations, right. So almost everything in the
19:27
agenda comes through that route. I always stress to people that
19:30
we're not an academic conference, right.
19:32
It's not like we're doing formal peer review of these things, but
19:36
we do have a reasonably rigorous process with the content
19:39
committee. We will review those proposals
19:42
in pretty serious debt. We then try and construct an
19:45
agenda that is, you know, appropriately balanced and you
19:50
know the the number of of different balances that that
19:54
we're trying to get are there's a lot of them, right.
19:57
So again, with the scale that we're at, we recognize that
20:00
we're going to have people who've been coming to the show
20:02
for years, who've been in identity for years, who want to
20:06
sit around and and pontificate and kind of have the hullabaloo
20:09
discussion as you described it a minute ago.
20:12
But we've also got and and heartily welcome people who are
20:16
brand new, just started in identity this year.
20:18
Maybe they've been enrolled for three, 4-5 years.
20:22
They're they're starting to get their feet.
20:23
They're starting to learn not just the the technical bits of
20:29
how to do the job, but all the other stuff that goes along with
20:32
with being a professional in any industry.
20:35
And Identiverse is a really good place to do that.
20:38
We try quite hard with the agenda to make it so that it's
20:41
balanced in that sense as well as material that's appropriate
20:45
for for folks to sit and pontificate.
20:47
And there's material that's appropriate for people to sit
20:49
and go, OK, there's a new thing that I've learned and I can move
20:52
on and and that was, you know, that was valuable.
20:55
I think though around the edges of that and you guys are, you
20:59
know, be better judged than me, I'm, I'm in this And so I'm, I'm
21:03
invariably going to be or inevitably going to be biased.
21:05
But I think it's an incredibly welcoming nurturing environment.
21:09
Right. Professionals come, even folks
21:12
who've never been before, who've who've, you know been in their,
21:14
in their jobs for a couple of years, they come.
21:17
They find that their peers are more than happy to have
21:22
conversations. And by peers, I mean folks who
21:25
work in the industry just like they do, right?
21:29
It can be quite daunting. I think you go and sit in a
21:32
presentation, somebody who's been working on the skim
21:34
protocol for the last, you know, 27 years.
21:36
Skim is not that old. I apologize to the people who've
21:40
been working on Skim. Some of them may look that old,
21:42
but you know that's just the nature of the protocol.
21:45
You know, they've been working on this thing for years and
21:47
years and years and and they know everything and it's like
21:49
can I can I go and ask them a question?
21:51
Like yes is the answer to that and Identiverse is very
21:54
supportive of that. We actually have.
21:56
We started this last year and we'll do it again this year.
21:59
We've got a a kind of mutual identiverse session right up
22:02
front on the the first day, the Tuesday just before all the main
22:06
content starts. We we did it experimentally last
22:10
year thinking we might get about 50 people and we had 200 and
22:13
they were out in the corridors and it was extremely useful and
22:16
valuable. But highly recommend if if folks
22:19
are new to the show, to go to that and it'll give you a real
22:21
sense of, you know, here's how I get engaged, here's how I get
22:24
what I need to get out of the week.
22:25
So. I'm going to definitely echo the
22:27
welcoming and nurturing. And I mean that's just the
22:31
industry at large. I think for us, I feel like this
22:33
is an area where you know, for all of our flaws and faults of
22:37
not being able to, you know, come up with correct terminology
22:39
or even common terminology or definitions.
22:41
I have never met anybody in that industry that has been a jerk.
22:45
I'm sure they exist, right? But I, you know, you walk up to
22:48
people, introduce and have conversations, stuff like that.
22:51
It is definitely a very welcoming environment.
22:53
If you're new to the space, you know, walk up to somebody, say
22:56
hello if you've been in the space.
22:58
Here's a challenge for everybody who's been coming to these
23:00
conference for a while. Go out and find somebody who
23:02
hasn't been there before, You know, make a make a new friend,
23:05
you know, take someone under your wing, stuff like that.
23:08
If people come up to me at the conference, I'm happy to walk
23:11
them around and give them my thoughts on things, answer
23:14
questions, introduce them to other people, stuff like that.
23:16
But I think that's how we grow as an industry is making those
23:19
relationships and Identiverse is definitely one of the best
23:22
places to do that. You've got people of like mind,
23:25
you know, similar, you know, work that we're all kind of
23:28
doing, whether we've been doing it for 20 years or 20 minutes.
23:31
You know, get out there and and and talk with people and
23:34
introduce yourself. And if you're a veteran, get out
23:36
there, talk with new people, 'cause that's the one thing I
23:38
think is I see a lot of people who have been going to these
23:40
things for a while and they kind of cluster together as well,
23:43
which is great, right? You want to have those
23:44
relationships, but you know, let's let's let's let's open
23:47
arms and and and get a hug to some of the new people out
23:49
there. Yeah, definitely pay it forward.
23:51
You know, I could imagine a scenario, Andy, where someone
23:54
says we have this great digital identity conference, we're going
23:57
to cover all the areas of IEM. But I I guess my question to you
24:02
is, is this a we we understand the oxymoron and what I said
24:07
right, Is this is Identiverse a digital identity conference or
24:11
is it an IM conference? I think this is one of those
24:15
questions that is going to run and run and run.
24:20
So if you go back to the very beginning, the very, very
24:24
beginning of when Identiverse first started out and it had a
24:26
different name at the time and that's 15 years ago.
24:30
It will be 15 years this year. It's actually our 15th birthday.
24:32
We're very excited about that. It was very focused on how do we
24:38
do identity in the cloud, right. That was the question that that
24:42
the conference set out to answer.
24:45
The reality is that the industry has and continues to evolve
24:51
rapidly and dramatically. And I I mean in all seriousness,
24:55
I think the question of of you know what is IM, what is digital
24:59
identity is going to be a topic for the next few years because
25:03
there is a lot of change happening.
25:05
So I have my perspective somewhat inevitably the
25:08
conference reflects some of that perspective, but equally you
25:12
know the content committee and the Advisory Board come at this
25:14
slightly differently. So you know my perspective will
25:17
be will be nuanced I guess softened perhaps by by their
25:21
input. My view is that digital identity
25:27
is an overarching term that incorporates all of the
25:32
different aspects of identity. Whether that is the highly
25:36
technical protocol deployment level question about you know
25:41
how do I get these identity bits from A to B right the way
25:46
through to you know, all of the proofing, vetting, attribute,
25:53
assertion, digital wallet, decentralized stuff right the
25:58
way through to the edges of things like privacy and elements
26:04
of security. So we'll take cybersecurity as
26:06
an example, right. And obviously the, the promoters
26:08
of Identiverse Cyber Risk Alliance have lots of other
26:11
cybersecurity focused initiatives.
26:14
And you look at cybersecurity and there are lots and lots and
26:17
lots of things in that realm that have nothing really to do
26:22
with identity, right. It's the bits that do that are
26:26
relevant to us. And the same is, is true of
26:28
privacy, right. So, yeah, it presents an
26:31
interesting challenge for us from a conference standpoint
26:33
because it's now a very, very broad set of things.
26:37
And so that's why you're starting to see some events
26:39
emerge that maybe sit a little earlier in the in the content
26:43
life cycle that are focused in depth on particular areas.
26:48
But it's really important, I think, for us to incorporate as
26:52
much of that as we can, partly because I think that we're going
26:57
to see some convergence and some impact from 1 area to another.
27:01
So give you an example, we talked a little bit earlier on
27:05
about the role that things like wallets may start to play from a
27:10
consumer standpoint and potentially from a workforce
27:13
standpoint. If we are not today starting as
27:17
an industry as as a, you know, traditional IAM industry, if you
27:20
will, to talk about OK, what do wallets look like?
27:24
What does decentralized look like?
27:26
You know, in reality, in a real deployment, how is that gonna
27:29
start to impact on the way that I think about authorization or
27:34
authentication or they use a life cycle, right, Because there
27:38
is absolutely going to be an impact.
27:41
One of the things that we're going to talk about to some
27:43
degree this year, we talked about a lot of things this year
27:45
in the conference. But you know we're giving some
27:47
some space in the agenda to things like the continuous
27:52
access evaluation protocol right Kate or CAEP depending on how
27:55
you want to pronounce it and risk And you know that whole
27:59
shared signals area and Full disclosure I I have you know a a
28:03
foam space in my heart shared signal.
28:05
I did some work in that area a few years ago together with
28:09
folks like Andrew Nash and others.
28:11
I can see at least in my head. I think there's a really
28:15
interesting kind of confluence of here's a bunch of of
28:21
selective disclosure information that I can provide from my
28:23
wallet. Where does that feed into the
28:25
continuous evaluation of my, my, you know, access control as I go
28:30
along through a particular user journey, right.
28:32
We aren't ready to do that yet as an industry.
28:34
But if you are in, I don't know, IGA for example today and you
28:39
think you'll likely be an IGA in three or four years time, you're
28:42
going to need to think about that.
28:43
And so that's why for us it's really important that we touch
28:46
all of those areas because I I don't know where a profession is
28:48
going to end up in the next four years, right, or what you guys
28:51
are going to be doing in four years.
28:52
But if you're still an identity, we it will be nice to think that
28:56
we're providing, you know, some of that drip feeding early
28:59
enough on that it will become useful later on.
29:03
Yeah, Andy, I wanted to talk about I I know you guys have
29:05
been start at as a conference starting to build some content
29:11
that will be available before the conference and you have an
29:15
upcoming upcoming today online seminar that by the time this
29:20
episode actually drops, it will be a recorded recorded webinar
29:25
that people can go visit. We'll put a link in the show
29:28
notes, but could you give us a brief overview of what's in that
29:33
content? I would be delighted to thank
29:35
you. Yeah.
29:36
So this is, this is something that we wanted to do for a long
29:39
time, right. Identiverse has always existed
29:41
as a as a point in time essentially single event once a
29:45
year. We've if for those of you that
29:47
have really deep history with event, you'll remember there was
29:49
one year a long time ago where we did a couple of like little
29:52
events at a different time of the year, but it really only
29:55
lasted a very short time. And we recognize very clearly
30:00
that it's not like the industry is static for a year.
30:04
So we wanted to try and do some things that still fit with the
30:10
the values that ethos of Identiverse, the how we do
30:13
things but that we can do at other times in the year.
30:15
So couple of things, one is that at the end of last year in in
30:19
December we ran a couple of half day Identiverse branded
30:23
Identiverse themed events, one in New York, one in Chicago and
30:27
essentially as experiments right, Let's see if it's worth
30:29
doing these if people are interested if the sponsors are
30:32
interested in helping us out and and and they were I think very
30:36
successful. The folks that came had a good
30:38
time, they were productive. We talked about some stuff that
30:40
built on what we discussed at Ideniverse you know prime as it
30:44
were earlier in the year. The other thing that we've
30:47
started and so I expect we'll we'll do those hopefully later
30:50
this year. Again, what we've also started
30:52
to do are some webinars. We did one, I want to say a
30:56
week, maybe two weeks ago, specifically on the topic of
31:00
authorisation with a tie in to the conference and to the
31:04
authors and working group which which had kind of started at at
31:10
the Identities Conference or at least started to come together
31:12
at the conference. Tomorrow we're doing one, sorry.
31:17
Tomorrow as we record this, I should say we're doing one which
31:22
essentially is a number of the members of the content committee
31:25
and we're going to be talking about some of the trends that we
31:29
think we saw as we were going through the call for
31:32
presentations. So one of the joys of being at
31:34
the scale that we're at now is we get enough volume of
31:37
proposals into the CFP that we can kind of look at those and
31:41
say, well you know, isn't it interesting that out of the, you
31:45
know, 500 proposals that we got my making that number up out of
31:49
thin air, but out of the 500 proposals that we got, 470 of
31:55
them were on wallets. Now that's clearly not an
31:57
accurate description, but you get my point right.
32:00
We can start to draw some trends out of this stuff.
32:04
And so we're going to have a a conversation with a a couple of
32:07
members from the content committee, three or four members
32:08
of the conflict committee tomorrow just to talk about what
32:12
do we think we saw which of those things might we touch on
32:15
late universe, which are we not going to touch on late universe?
32:17
Why? You know that that claimed of a
32:19
discussion and once it's gone out, yeah, the the recording
32:23
will be available up on the early anniversary website and we
32:25
hope to do some more of those through the course of the year.
32:28
Again, they're all experimental where we're working out you know
32:31
what works and what doesn't for for for folks, but we hope that
32:37
they're useful. If if anyone does happen to go
32:39
and look at them and they want to send feedback, we're
32:41
obviously open to that and we'll see how they go.
32:43
So Andy, I'm going to ask you a two-part question.
32:45
Take these questions in whichever order you want.
32:49
So I hear, you know obviously we're identity nerves, right.
32:53
So we're talking a lot about wallets ID verification, mobile
32:57
IDs, age verification, all this like cutting edge stuff that
33:03
digital identities, not really traditional IEM, super
33:08
fascinating stuff to us, not to everybody.
33:11
Some people are IEM folks. So one, I do want to hear about
33:16
those topics. In other words, I'd like you to
33:18
kind of like give some more on that on those things I just
33:22
touched on. But I also want to know if
33:25
somebody's coming who does provisioning or does manage, you
33:30
know, privilege access management or something like
33:32
that, What what do they get out of the conference and like is
33:37
this still the right conference for them?
33:40
And if you were them, how would you approach, you know, this
33:44
traditional piece as well as, hey, there's this new stuff
33:47
going on, should they dip their toe in some of that stuff?
33:51
Yeah, That's a great question. So I think, I mean I feel really
33:56
bad because I'm, I'm about to say what of course it's the
33:58
right conference. I hope it's the right
33:59
conference, right. I hope it's still the right
34:01
place for that. We try very hard to make it
34:04
still the right place for those things.
34:07
It's meant to be the right place for those things.
34:09
And again, if we're getting that wrong, then let us know and
34:13
we'll take that into consideration as we start to
34:15
plan the 2025 event. It's also fair to say that for a
34:20
lot of these things, they are, I guess that things come in
34:24
cycles, right? So as an example, if you go back
34:28
and look at the agenda, let's say five or six years ago, we
34:33
spent quite a lot of time that particular year talking about
34:37
the early technical stages of decentralized identity, right?
34:41
This is when it was Stillwell. Should we put identity on a
34:44
blockchain or not, right. Where do we keep our those kinds
34:47
of conversations? And then we frankly didn't talk
34:50
about it for a while. Shared signals is the same
34:52
thing, right? We talked about it a lot for a
34:54
couple of years and then it kind of went away for a bit whilst
34:56
everybody sat down and worked out.
34:58
OK, what does this look like in reality?
35:00
And sometimes those things go away and never come back because
35:03
they don't quite see the light of day.
35:04
But some of them do. The same is true for some of the
35:09
technologies, architectures, protocols that have been around
35:13
longer. It's just that the way that that
35:15
cycle looks is different. So I'll use SAML as an example
35:18
because it's one that I'm probably more familiar with than
35:21
some of the others. Again, if you go back in time
35:26
far enough, we spent a lot of time talking about like how does
35:29
the SAML protocol work, does it work the right way?
35:32
Do we need to change the way it works?
35:34
Right. Then it went away for a while
35:36
because everybody was busy deploying it.
35:38
Then we had a few years where people would come and talk
35:40
about, hey, so I deployed it and this is what I ran into.
35:44
And this is how I made it better.
35:45
And these are the products that I tried and this is how I made
35:48
them talk to each other. And, you know, here are some
35:50
interesting edge cases that we should figure out.
35:52
And then it went quiet for a while.
35:54
And then Open ID Connect came along and we had a couple of
35:57
years of, well, OK, so I now have this big Federated
36:02
deployment that I've built with SAML.
36:03
And you want me to, you know, switch over and use Open ID And
36:06
how am I going to use Open ID Connect and how am I going to
36:09
get there at you, Right. This is all, what's the phrase
36:13
that gets used? Meat and potatoes.
36:16
Yes, this is straightforward. How do I do my job and how do I
36:22
do it better kind of stuff. Privileged access management is
36:25
exactly the same, right? There are years when not much
36:28
changes and then suddenly there'll be something that comes
36:31
up where it's like, oh, we have to think about this a little bit
36:33
differently, right? And we try our best to reflect
36:35
that. It's one of the joys of running
36:37
the CFP is that some of that naturally surfaces, right.
36:41
We suddenly get a slew of proposals about, you know, ITDR
36:44
is a really good example, right, slew of proposals about that and
36:48
it's like, OK, we we should probably make sure we cover that
36:50
one, right. There's a fair amount of real
36:56
world deployment talk, right. So folks that have you know from
37:02
large enterprises deployed particular protocols,
37:05
technologies, architectures, products will come and describe
37:10
what they did, talk about what they did and that sharing of
37:13
best practice is incredibly valuable.
37:15
I think if you're if you're you know kind of on the on the
37:18
Pointy deployment end of things, we also have quite a lot of
37:23
folks coming and talking about protocols.
37:26
So again depends what's being worked on in any given year.
37:29
But as an example I mentioned Cape and Risk earlier on,
37:32
there's a fair amount going on there, probably less in the SAML
37:36
space right now. Quite a lot going on in the
37:38
authorization area which you probably talked about Parski is
37:41
1 and and the whole sort of Fido authentication construct that's
37:45
evolved quite rapidly where you know even as as recently as last
37:49
year we were still talking about the evolution of the protocol
37:53
and you know this year it's very much about hey I deployed
37:57
passkey this is what it looked like, right.
38:00
So yeah, I hopefully that that kind of answers the the question
38:03
Jim, did I, did I miss anything in amongst all of that?
38:06
No, I don't think I I really like the answer because we gave
38:11
a lot of insight in terms of how the content builds in.
38:14
I do think if you go there and look, everybody's going to
38:17
approach these conferences, every conference differently.
38:20
You know, you might need to go there and say I want to look at
38:23
all the privilege access management vendors because my
38:26
company is going to buy a privilege access management
38:29
solution and I've got to see what's out there.
38:32
That's fine. Spend 80% of your time doing
38:35
that. But my only recommendation is a
38:38
personal gymnasium. Spend the other 20%
38:42
investigating some of these other areas.
38:44
Open your mind a little bit you. I'm sure he's been hearing about
38:48
decentralized identity and digital wallets and his age of
38:52
just pop into some of the sessions and he might learn
38:56
something new. But you know, I wanted to pass
38:59
this to Jeff to get his input. I mean, you know between Jeff
39:02
and I, we've probably hit 100 identity conferences in our
39:06
lifetime. We I'm sure you've got an
39:07
opinion. Yeah, I mean the problem I
39:11
always have with the conferences is that there's too many good
39:13
sessions going on at the same time.
39:15
And that's that's honestly the biggest hurdle for me is like,
39:18
OK, there's like three things all taking place from 10:00 to
39:21
10:45 and how am I going to split my time between between
39:25
that and then support friends and colleagues who may be
39:28
presenting in something else, right.
39:30
For for their stuff. You know, I I think I'm a little
39:33
more spur of the moment for me. Conferences have more turned
39:36
into talking with other folks and trying to find new things
39:42
versus stuff that I already know about, I feel like I know about
39:46
because there's always something new in the space and there's
39:49
plenty of stuff that I still don't understand.
39:50
Getting my head around, you know, quantum and trying to
39:53
understand, well, where does self Sovereign come in for an
39:55
enterprise, right? Things like that.
39:57
That's what I tend to focus on is that kind of stuff is the is
40:02
the newer more cutting edge. But that's only because I have
40:05
the background already, the kind of I feel like we cover
40:07
everything else. And hey, you and I, Jim, we're
40:09
fortunate we do this podcast where we're talking about this
40:11
stuff. At least once a week, if not
40:14
more. And so we're getting a little,
40:16
you know, more exposure. It's almost like we do our own
40:18
conference every week basically around a specific topic.
40:20
So that's typically how I kind of approach it.
40:24
So that's that's kind of what I'm thinking Andy.
40:26
I know that it's always a struggle trying to figure out
40:29
schedules and too many good sessions at once.
40:32
And you know, maybe this is a a a, an opportunity to talk about
40:35
what if I can't come to the conference, Are there things
40:38
that I can do after the conference maybe that I could
40:40
take advantage of like videos or things like that?
40:43
I know historically there's been some of that stuff out there,
40:45
but what's the plan for this year?
40:46
I I feel like the answer should be just just spend this year
40:49
saving up so you can come to next year.
40:51
So, so yeah, I it's we've we've tried for a long time to do
40:59
something that would would help people.
41:01
So couple of things, one is for a long time now that pretty much
41:06
since the beginning we've recorded all of the sessions
41:11
that take place at the conference.
41:13
Our intention is to do that again this year likely to be
41:16
audio rather than video, although we will, I expect video
41:21
everything that's up on the mainstage from keynote
41:22
standpoint, but all of that will be made about all of that
41:25
material be made available after the event attendees you know
41:29
first. So to your point Jeff, you know
41:31
if you're conflicted about what to attend at least you'd be able
41:34
to go and pick that stuff up afterwards, but then it'll be
41:37
made available publicly as we have done historically, at least
41:40
that's the intention at this point.
41:43
The other thing, and this is a little bit, I bit this kind of
41:47
wasn't in my head until I was picking up really on something
41:50
that that Jim mentioned, which is because I tend to think
41:53
primarily about the agenda, which is where my head is at
41:56
right now. But you know, Jim made the
41:59
really important point that we've obviously got, you know,
42:01
this enormous show flaw, which is incredibly valuable to
42:05
people. Some people just want to get a
42:07
sense of what was out there. Some have got very specific
42:10
questions for vendors that maybe they use today or they're
42:12
considering using. And for others it's, you know,
42:15
exactly as as as you described, Jim.
42:18
It's like we've got a project in this space.
42:20
Let me start to get a sense of what was out there.
42:22
I think if you aren't able to attend the conference, one thing
42:26
that you might consider doing is have a look and see which
42:30
vendors are there and then either reach out to a colleague
42:34
that happens to be attending and leverage them, right?
42:37
Hey, would you mind popping along to vendor X and asking
42:40
them these questions? Right.
42:42
The other thing is frankly if you're interested in a
42:45
particular product or solution, I would encourage you to reach
42:48
out to that vendor directly and say hey look, I saw you around
42:50
anniversary, Sorry I couldn't physically be there, but I am
42:54
interested because you know you've immediately got a way to
42:57
start to have a a slightly higher level more engaged
43:00
conversation with that particular vendor than you would
43:02
otherwise. So it's worth considering as as
43:05
an approach. And the other thing I'd say is
43:06
keep an eye out for some of the other you know kind of regional
43:10
identiverse things and online identiverse things that we're
43:12
looking to try and put together later on in the year and into
43:16
next year. There may be other ways to to
43:19
kind of get engaged in in in what's happening beyond just,
43:23
you know, being at the main event in Vegas.
43:26
Evidently I would, I would be failing in my job today if I
43:30
didn't say, look we'd love to see everybody at Vegas in Vegas
43:34
but I recognize that not everybody can And so yeah, we we
43:38
do our best to try and make it accessible.
43:40
That the other thing I should probably say here is we've got a
43:44
number of professional associations that that are
43:47
involved at Ideniverse and many of them have active communities
43:55
that that exist and and operate outside of the confines of of
43:59
just the event. And so it may be that if you're
44:02
a member of one of those or if you're considering you know
44:04
becoming member of one of those that might give you another way
44:06
to get sort of tapped into some of the conversation and the
44:09
learning the best practices and the the the mentoring you know
44:13
loosely that we've been talking about today outside of of just
44:17
attending the event. So I definitely echo everything
44:20
you just said, but I especially like last year when you started
44:23
to do the local events. So I was at the one in New York
44:26
City, which I thought went really well, you were there as
44:29
well. So it was nice to say familiar
44:30
faces, right? Stuff like that.
44:32
But it was grateful to get local people kind of together, 'cause
44:34
I know it's it's expensive, right, to go to these
44:36
conferences and to take tight em off and kind of do that kind of
44:39
stuff, but it it doesn't replace the full identiverse experience.
44:43
It's such a, it's such a good conference.
44:45
I mean you you guys have done such a good job with that.
44:47
I'm a big fan of it and going to it for several years now I we've
44:50
so we've been talking about 47 minutes and so I want to do kind
44:54
of a lightning around here so we don't go on too long.
44:56
I'm going to ask you point blank questions, Andy, and you give me
45:00
a lightning response on what you're.
45:02
Yeah, I think this is hilarious because getting me to do
45:04
anything concisely. Is like this is the challenge
45:08
this? Is going to work.
45:08
I don't know how this is going to work.
45:10
We'll try. We'll do our best all.
45:11
Right. Well, I'm going to start with
45:12
the hard one because last year you said that authentication is
45:14
done. So we congratulate ourselves
45:17
because we fixed authentication. Everything is hunky Dory.
45:21
You know we've got password list now, and there's no more issues
45:23
anymore with authentication. Do you still stand by that
45:26
statement? Yes.
45:27
OK, I'll I'll give you 20 seconds to expand on your OK.
45:32
I'm really glad you came to get out there.
45:35
I won't hang out to drag. Yeah.
45:39
So look, I I was being a little bit facetious when I said it.
45:41
My, my point was that the, the, the opportunity that is
45:46
presented with Passkey is huge. It's come on very rapidly and
45:51
it's being deployed at scale very rapidly with demonstrable,
45:56
not just technical but demonstrable business success.
46:00
So is it done? No.
46:03
Is it solved? Arguably it still needs to get
46:06
done, but arguably it's solved. The context for that comment
46:11
was, I think, where we now need to go spend a ton of energy
46:15
thinking about how to solve the problem is in authorization.
46:18
But yes, I stand by the statement in that context.
46:21
OK, next question. One of my favorite ones is After
46:25
hours activities. I know that there's typically
46:27
some things planned around and it seems like you know every
46:29
vendor and everything. Everybody else has stuff going
46:32
on which I would tell you take advantage of that kind of stuff,
46:34
right? I mean, those are generally some
46:36
fun events and if you can make yourself available to go like to
46:40
a nice dinner or go see a show or something like that, do it.
46:43
What are your thoughts on how do you approach after hours
46:45
activities, especially for maybe folks who haven't gone to this
46:48
before or maybe haven't been in Vegas before?
46:50
What would be your words of wisdom on how they should pace
46:53
themselves? Yeah.
46:54
So I think pacing is exactly the right word.
46:57
You're right. Take advantage of those
46:59
opportunities, but pick and choose them carefully and
47:02
remember that you are there for basically a week.
47:07
They're long days, they're packed days, They're incredibly
47:12
valuable days. But since you've gone to the
47:15
effort to attend, make the most out of those days and pace
47:19
yourself through the show. Frankly, even if you're not
47:21
going out at night, you're still going to want to pace yourself
47:24
through the week. And, and I would add to that,
47:27
recognize that the vast majority of people that are presenting
47:32
are you right, They don't happen to be you personally this year
47:37
maybe, but they are you. And they're putting a lot of
47:41
time and effort and energy into sharing their knowledge with
47:45
everyone at the event. Give them due respect, right?
47:48
If somebody's presenting at 8:30 in the morning, show up.
47:51
Pay attention. Listen, please.
47:54
Yeah, I think was it last year there was like the was it like a
47:57
Sammy Davis tribute, Frank Sinatra type thing?
48:00
That kind of started off the day?
48:01
It was. It was great.
48:02
I liked it. I thought it was really good.
48:04
But it was like, all right, hey, we are getting started, yeah.
48:08
So, yeah, I mean and and slightly more usefully perhaps,
48:12
you know there's there's a number of of sort of you know
48:16
conference events that happened. So there's the welcome reception
48:19
on the first night in and around the the the Expo hall which I
48:22
highly encourage people to go to, will have a a similar thing
48:27
happening on the second night. I can't remember what's
48:28
happening on the third night if I'm honest so far through the
48:31
week that I've forgotten now. But yeah, look, look for those
48:34
conference events, but also you know, be alert to some of the
48:38
other opportunities that arise. Some of the professional
48:41
associations we mentioned will undoubtedly be doing, you know,
48:45
kind of get togethers at various times.
48:48
A number of the vendors and sponsors that are represented
48:50
will will have evenings as well. You know, pick and choose
48:54
carefully, but but there's some really, really good
48:56
opportunities to to get to know people in the slightly less sort
49:00
of formal conference context. Those relationships can be very
49:03
valuable. Absolutely, Jim, what do you
49:04
think? Well, I think pace yourself is a
49:07
fantastic recommendation. But that doesn't mean every
49:11
night get Uber Eats and go back to your room and you know get to
49:16
bed early. I mean you're in Las Vegas, you
49:18
only get to do it, you know, couple times a year, once a
49:22
year. Maybe this is the first time and
49:24
the only time you get to do it for a while.
49:25
So enjoy what you've got going on.
49:28
And the thing I would add to it is, you know, Jeff, you and I
49:32
always bring the Identity at the Center podcast on the road and
49:36
make sure that we link up for some after hours and some
49:40
opportunities to kind of mingle and meet folks that listen to
49:45
the podcast. So we'll get some of that
49:47
information out as the conference gets closer and of
49:50
course as it gets close to the week or two before.
49:53
If you haven't heard anything, just ping either one of us on on
49:58
DM, on LinkedIn and we'll just say, you know, these are the
50:00
nights that we're doing something, is where we're going
50:03
and we'll get you on the invitee list.
50:05
Yeah, I mean that's, you know, that's what we do with these
50:07
conferences. Like you know we're going to be
50:09
there, we're going to be recording.
50:11
Dunniverse has been great to partner with through that.
50:12
So we'll have like spots and I don't know, you know, I know
50:15
we're still kind of figuring things out, Andy, but like, I
50:17
guess what do you want to see out of our podcast this year?
50:20
No, I was, I was, I was just exactly where I was going to go,
50:22
actually, because I'm. I'm utterly delighted that you
50:24
guys are going to be there again this year, Really am.
50:27
So yeah, we're still figuring out some of the details, which
50:30
is another reason why people should come and then they can
50:32
find out exactly where we landed with all this.
50:34
But we we certainly will have a recording studio.
50:40
You guys will have some space and some time in there so you so
50:42
folks can come along and kind of watch you do this for real,
50:45
which I think will be a lot of fun.
50:47
We're also looking at some other opportunities to maybe do
50:51
something on a stage somewhere at some point.
50:53
Not quite sure what that'll look like or if we can figure it out,
50:56
but we're going to try. And then yeah, I suspect, you
51:00
know, I'd love to see the the two of you roaming the hallways
51:03
doing little spot interviews with people randomly that you
51:06
can then cut into a podcast later.
51:08
I think that would be a lot of fun.
51:10
And then all the people that are listening to this can come up
51:12
and say, hey, I listened to that thing where you guys asked Andy
51:15
a bunch of questions and said answer briefly and he didn't do
51:19
that. I think that'll be funny.
51:21
I'll put like a shot. Clack up like the NBA.
51:23
You've got 24 seconds to get the answer, you know, or a pitch
51:27
count, whatever you want to use it, right?
51:28
Pitch clock, you know, that kind of thing, Andy, You spend so
51:31
much time and energy putting those conference on.
51:33
What do you do to unwind at night or day or whatever it may
51:37
be? I mean, you've got to take a
51:39
break at some point, right? We talked about pacing.
51:41
Got to do it for yourself as well, right?
51:42
Yeah, this is really interesting.
51:45
So, you know, when I started doing this, this is actually my
51:48
10th year coming up this year. So when I started doing it, it
51:51
was kind of a you know, 50% of my time and the rest of my time
51:55
I spend you know consulting in the identity space doing various
51:58
things. It's it's rapidly approaching
52:02
100% kind of time commitment effort and it's interesting
52:05
because it's, it's a global thing, right.
52:07
So yes, you know we're we're running in Las Vegas, but I have
52:10
folks on the content committee who are out in Australia, I have
52:12
folks in the content committee who are here in Europe.
52:14
I have folks who are on the West Coast as well as the East Coast
52:17
in the US so So yeah there's there's a lot and I love it.
52:21
I mean I it's it's an absolute privilege it really is to be
52:25
able to to help to do this. I when I'm not doing this and
52:31
other work things, I do a couple of things.
52:34
One is that I enjoy riding a road bike that's an old
52:38
fashioned bicycle with pedals, except it's a modern old
52:40
fashioned bicycle because it's made of carbon and it's very
52:43
sort of slippery through the air and and delightful to ride.
52:47
So that keeps me out of trouble and reasonably fit and healthy.
52:50
And then and this will make both of my wonderful hosts today
52:54
laugh hysterically. The other thing that I like to
52:57
do is some home recording and the reason that that will make
52:59
them laugh is we spent about 20 minutes before managing to
53:03
record this today with me going. But I have this really nice
53:06
microphone and I can't get it to work with your podcast thing and
53:10
it's it won't record. And so in the end, I'm using a
53:13
very, very cheap kind of, you know, sort of conference speaker
53:18
thing, which seems to be working OK.
53:19
But yes, otherwise I like to dabble in home recording and I I
53:23
play a couple of instruments and that kind of thing.
53:25
So yeah, just for me, just for my own benefit, but it keeps me
53:29
calm and happy and I cook. Those are the three things that
53:33
I do. All right, So what instruments
53:35
do you play? So I play the piano keyboards
53:39
reasonably competently. I dabble with guitar.
53:43
I have a couple of them lurking over behind me that you can't
53:46
see, but there they are. One is a gretch.
53:49
It was not very expensive, but it's nice semi acoustic so I
53:51
don't have to plug it in all the time.
53:53
The other is a Schechter. It's years old but it plays very
53:57
nicely and I am technically capable of also playing the
54:00
bassoon, although I haven't picked one up for a while, but I
54:03
do have one, so yes. All right.
54:06
And then what's your go to dish? You've got to impress.
54:09
You've got to impress the identarati.
54:10
They're coming over and they're like Andy's cooking.
54:13
What are you making? So I run and hide because I know
54:16
very well, but there are several foodies who are who are
54:20
seriously good cooks, right? I am not at that level, but I do
54:25
like cooking Asian food. I do quite a lot of stir fry, so
54:29
I've got a nice kind of chicken with Kashi nuts thing that I do
54:32
which I can adapt. So I've done it with tofu as
54:34
well for folks that are not inclined to eat.
54:38
Meat. All right, so dinner's at Andy's
54:40
house tonight. Jim, what do you do?
54:42
I mean, you and I work at Identity all day long and we do
54:44
podcasting, but what do you do when you want to unwind at
54:47
night? So I don't drink or do drugs
54:51
yet. I work from home all day and I
54:55
sit in a chair. So I try to break that habit and
54:59
get out of the house, go to the gym, be around some people and
55:03
move my body and get some exercise.
55:07
I find that, well, not only does it take me from like getting in
55:11
400 steps in a day to like 5-6 thousand steps, it also just
55:17
relieves a lot of stress. So I know when people think
55:21
about, like, exercising and like, like, that doesn't sound
55:24
like it would reduce my stress. It takes a while.
55:27
You got to have to get over a hump.
55:28
But then eventually it's like something you look forward to.
55:31
And that's the stage that I'm in.
55:32
So yeah, that's what I do. It's like go to the gym and I
55:35
work out after work. That sounds weird.
55:38
You never go out working out. Not when we're on the road
55:40
together anyway. I got to get working on.
55:42
All right. I'll see you.
55:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I just said don't do Uber
55:47
Eats in Vegas, but at least you get your workouts in.
55:51
Yeah, I don't know. What do I do to unwind?
55:55
I do a lot of stuff. I don't know if I have like an A
55:57
particular thing at this point, 'cause I'm just kind of all over
55:59
the place. I actually like creating
56:01
content. Some of it's work related, some
56:03
of it's not. Some of it's podcast related.
56:06
I'm trying to learn guitar and it's not going well.
56:08
I think that is a saga that I've been documenting on and off for
56:11
like the last year or so. There is one over my shoulder
56:13
that Andy, I don't know if you can or can't see it.
56:15
It's a relatively cheap Yamaha electric.
56:21
Good place to. Stop.
56:23
Yeah, nothing too crazy, but I just, I pick it up and I get
56:26
frustrated too easily. My fingers don't do the thing
56:28
that they're supposed to do, and so I'm always constantly
56:31
thinking about that. But I play video games and I
56:34
still play World of Warcraft, and I got into Assassin's Creed
56:37
Valhalla recently, so starting to get in that I don't have as
56:40
much time anywhere near as much time as I wish I I did.
56:42
I could sit and play video games all day but they're nice, you
56:46
know, a little break, you know, from from stuff that's that
56:49
might be happening. So betting to play with the
56:51
dogs. You know, dogs are the best
56:52
people. I'm convinced of that.
56:53
So you know they are they are basically what my my hobbies are
56:58
at this point. We're at an hour.
56:59
We want to start to wrap things up.
57:01
We'll have links in our show notes for Identiverse for the
57:04
firestorm of a article that Jim brought up a link to our
57:09
discount code for the Identiverse conference,
57:11
identiverse.com IDV 24-I D AC25 get 25% off.
57:17
We'll have a link to Andy's LinkedIn profile.
57:20
So if you want to reach out to him and ask questions or maybe
57:23
put a shot clock up for an answer on something like that,
57:26
you know you can do that as well.
57:27
I I I love the idea of doing sort of the the Man on the
57:30
Street interview. I know Jim has talked about us
57:32
doing that behind the scenes for a while and you know, Jim, we
57:35
tried that at Octane, but the audio that was put out there and
57:41
I looked at it was not great. So still kind of in limbo, but
57:45
I'll have my gear with me, so maybe we can kind of figure out
57:47
for that. And then we'll also have the
57:49
Identiverse webinar contents that Andy that we talked about
57:53
earlier in the episode. So we'll have a link to that as
57:55
well. So and then of course you can
57:57
reach out to Jim and myself if you've got questions, comments,
58:00
concerns, ideas for future episodes and hit our website
58:04
idacpodcast.com or follow us on X Twitter, whatever it's called
58:09
at IDAC podcasts, Mastodon at IDAC podcast, at Infosec dot
58:14
exchange. And that's it.
58:16
That's all we've got. I'm done with you people.
58:17
I'm. Done with you also on YouTube.
58:19
Oh, on YouTube? Yeah, well, definitely the
58:21
YouTube. So I'm putting the episodes up
58:22
on YouTube, trying to do the YouTube shorts things.
58:25
So when you talk about what do I do to unwind, it's like all that
58:28
stuff. That's something here.
58:30
We do identity. It's centered, aren't it?
58:32
Yeah, exactly. All right.
58:34
I'm done with you people. Go have fun.
58:38
Andy, You know, thank you for very much for your partnership
58:41
through this process and being on the show.
58:43
And I look forward to seeing you in Identiverse.
58:44
And for everyone else, we'll talk with you all in the next
58:47
one. You've been listening to
58:50
Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show.
58:54
Make sure to like, rate and review and we'll be back soon.
58:58
But in the meantime, hit the website at
59:00
identity@thecenter.com and find us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast.
59:08
See you next time on Identity at the Center.