Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (1939) - Frank Capra | Houselights #293

Transcript

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (1939) - Frank Capra | Houselights #293 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Nerd Party. Welcome back to House Lights,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: our director discussion show here on the Nerd Party Network.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: This week, we're continuing in the house of Frank Capra
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: with his 1939 black and white political drama, Mr. Smith
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Goes to Washington, starring James Stewart, Gene Arthur, and Claude Rains,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and many other people. Over 86 years ago, one man
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: taught a nation what the word filibuster meant, and it
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: wasn't schoolhouse rock. I'm your host, troopmaster of the Boy Rangers,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Darren Moser. I'm joined by the senator from his state,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Tristan Riddell. And is every word he says true? You
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: be the judge. This is the creator of the political machine,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: John Mills. Will my co-host please yield the floor? Will
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: this episode take just over 24 hours to make? Let's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: pitch our tents along the Willett Creek as we discuss Mr.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Smith Goes to Washington, which is 86 years old. I
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: still can't believe that. It does not feel that long.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: But I want to start with you, John. And no,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: we don't have to yield the floor every time we pass.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Just from the get-go, I'm getting ahead of it. Do
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: you hear that, everybody? We don't have to do it.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: He is immediately disqualifying the joke because he's a merciful host.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And he's making sure he knows where my tendencies lay.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: And so I will honor that request from the esteemed
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: senator from.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: That state. I love how they never actually say what state,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: which is, I think, a good call.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: He's from the state where the Simpsons live.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Oregon.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, so John, you had not seen this before.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I believe this is your first viewing. So standard questions.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: What did you know going in? Did you know at
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: least that Jim Stewart was in it or was this
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: a A blank slate. How were you expecting?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I've always seen the shot of him holding the crumpled
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: up telegrams. I didn't know they were telegrams.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I knew it was like crumpled up papers.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I thought he had like a nervous breakdown on the
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Senate floor.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I was like, this bill is garbage. I thought I mean,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: he did basically. But yeah, for other reasons.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: No, but I thought I thought it was gonna be
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: like a rager where he was like tearing apart the bill,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: talking about how terrible it was sort of thing. That's
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: what I thought it was. It was gonna be a
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: righteous Jimmy Stewart meltdown.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Sort of thing. And I knew basically nothing.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I knew it was, you know, a guy
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: who isn't part of the political machine goes in and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: finds out, you know, how awful people are in D.C.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Having grown in D.C., I'm like, I think that probably
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: it's sort of like, why would I bother watching a documentary?
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: I know this.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, it was really, really one of
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: those things where I knew very, very little except the
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: very basic concept of it.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I was looking forward to seeing it. I really was.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I like Capra.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I love Jimmy Stewart. And, you know, it's got such
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: a reputation because of its ending. Everybody always talks about
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: how great the ending is to this film.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And it, yeah, gets to the ending, not super quick,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: but it spends enough time with the setup and then
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: it's just that scene. It's one of those movies that
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: has a that scene in it that we all know
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: and talk about. So Tristan, okay, aside from James Stewart,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: because it's James Stewart, what is one of the actors
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: or actresses you know, the characters that really shone for
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you in this viewing? Because I know you had seen
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: this before, maybe not recently, but what kind of jumped
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: out this time?
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: Jean Arthur as Saunders, I think, does not get anywhere
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: near as much credit as she deserves in history. I
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: think everyone, you know, remembers Jimmy Stewart and everyone remembers
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: Claude Rains and the Invisible Man.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: Sorry.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: And, you know, Thomas Mitchell and Eugene Pallett you know,
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: great character actors that we see all the time. But
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: Jean Arthur as Saunders, her delivery is just so great.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: And that's, I think, like watching this again after so
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: much time, her scene where they're getting drunk at the
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: bar and she's talking with Diz and they're talking about
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: getting married and she keeps going back and forth about
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: what to do and she keeps changing subjects and she just, like,
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: it's just such a great, realistic experience but yet funny
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: view of being drunk so oftentimes in movies drunk is
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: just louder and stupider and then you throw up and
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: in this one it's really just like you can't maintain
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: a train of thought you have ridiculous ideas and and
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: like this is just agreeable he's like yeah yeah sure
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: yeah yeah let's do.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: It and even agreeable at the end of like okay
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: i guess we're not getting married just on to the next.
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: Thing I think she's just so witty. She's on point
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: with her timing. She's charming. She's beautiful. You obviously know
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: that she's the female lead. He's the male lead. You
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: know that they're going to get together in some fashion
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: because that's how movies work. But I really think that
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: they earned that chemistry because that scene when he's asking
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: her about her name and he's coming up with different ideas.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: He's incredibly charming. in that scene, but she is going
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: tit for tat with him. It's a really great sparring scene.
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: And I don't think that if it wasn't for Jean Arthur,
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: Jimmy Stewart's character would not be as fleshed out or
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: even as well received as it would have been with her.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: Did I say that right?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I agree. Because who else is he going to
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: say all that to? Who else is he going to reveal...
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: his intentions to not the other senators, there's no one else.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: You need that character at your center. So, John, in
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: this movie, I mean, we say political drama, but it
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: has a lot of relationship stuff as well from, you know,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: like Tristan mentioned, Carissa Saunders' interaction. But I want to
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: talk about that first meeting he had with Susan Payne. And,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: you know, we, I mean, we are going to talk
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: about Capra guys. Don't worry. We'll get, we'll get to him.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: But in that time that he's fumbling over himself and
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: playing with his hat and he's, and we're getting this
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: amazing intercut of just the hat for like a minute.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: How did that scene strike you again in this first viewing?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Was it, Were you like, why are we looking at
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: a hat? Or were you getting what Capra was laying down?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I liked to think I was getting what Capra was
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: laying down. I think that here we are, second one,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: looking at Capra as a director. And I think that
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: now with this, in addition to it happened one night,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I think you see a natural tendency of Capra to
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: pay attention to little things that we all notice that
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: movies tend not to pay attention to, at least in
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: this era.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: There's there's a there's a very large tendency to be
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: like lock the shot on the actor's face. And I
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: just want to see them in the shot. And Capra
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: is deciding to show the little things that we notice
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: without noticing. Sometimes, you know, it's like you would have
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: been in that room and then everything resolves. You're walking
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: home with your friend or you're going home with your
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: wife and you're like, you know, someone she was playing
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: with his hat.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: That was weird. You know, like that.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I think that sort of thing stands out about a
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Capra film. I think that what's wild is the energy
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: that Stuart brings is so different from It Happened One Night,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: but it still feels natural. It's heightened reality, obviously, but
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: it is... it still plays as this is a person
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I believe. And so I'm immediately going to go with
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Clarissa too.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: I believe in these people.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I know that they're drawn larger than life, but I
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: still cheer for them. I still fall in for them.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And so I already see that consistency with Capra just
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: in these two films where it's like, oh, he knows
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: how to let his actor play on screen and emote
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the way that's going to make me i mean you
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: know get teary at the end with the characters and
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: like you know when when she sends the note down
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: that you know p.s i love you know he's right
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: you know she's saying i love you so like that
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: that hits the heart because you've got to believe in
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: these people and i think capra has a real talent
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: for showing playing with the hat for showing fumbling over
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the phone. And Stewart's so natural at that, that they
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: both play right into each other's strengths. Yeah.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: So Tristan, I mean, obviously, James Stewart's in practically every
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: shot of this movie. I mean, it is a James
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Stewart movie. Does it feel, like John was saying, in
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the comparison to It Happened One Night, is this a
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: directed by Capra, or is this a we... We stuck
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Stuart in and we just let him do his thing.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Or could anyone play it besides Stuart? Could you replace him?
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Or is it so much the core of that man?
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: I think you definitely could do... I think it's easy
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: to say, oh.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: No, Stuart made this role and that you can only
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: picture Stuart in this role because, I mean, we've been
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: living with it for, what, 86 years?
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: And....
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: You know, it's an easy thing to say. And if
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: you do believe that, I don't think you're wrong. But
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: in my opinion, I do believe that we can find
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: somebody during this time who can showcase that strength and innocence,
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: a naivety without being unintentional. That is not something that
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: is just specific to Stewart, but he does play it
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: very well.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: And I think that this is very much a Frank
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: Capra movie.
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: Like when you look at the types of performances that
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: he gets, the type of humor that, how it's written,
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: how it's specifically how the words are directed, how everybody's directed.
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: I feel like the scene that I spoke about earlier
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: between Diz and Saunders at the bar, that's pure Capra.
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: The way that it just goes back and forth, back
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: and forth, and the topics change on a whim and
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: you don't miss a beat. Also the camera selection, how
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: the camera moves. The way that the camera moves is
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: way ahead of its time. And I think we saw
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: a lot of that in the previous film, that we
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: talked about where now is the editing perfect? No, it's
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: still the thirties, you know, it was the twenties, it's
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: the thirties, you know, like edit it. Like sometimes you,
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: you can only edit with what you got. And, uh,
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: this movie is no, no different. And I, this, this
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: is a Capra film and Stuart elevated it to a
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: level that, I think only he could have brought. But
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: that doesn't mean he was the only one who could
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: ever do it.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I think that the one thing, though, is that more
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: than it happened one night, I see with this, especially
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: with first-time eyes, where the criticisms of Capra came from.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Because of the way that this plays, it's great. Like
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm in it with the characters. I'm in
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the flow of everything. But there's never a sense that
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I'm going to turn on the character or the character's
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: ever going to disappoint me. or that I'm going to
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: be willing to think anything ill of the lead. And
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: that's not a bad thing, but it gives it this
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: very storybook theater type of feel to it. And I
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: think that that stretches out as well to this sense
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: at the end. We can talk about the ending later,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like the very, very ending, like the last minute of
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: the movie, last 30 seconds of the movie sort of
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: thing and the way it resolves. I think that there's
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: very much a, I can see where filmmakers that grew
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: up watching Cabra, and you know the ones I'm talking about,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: responded by saying, yes, I'm going to plug into a
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: motion like this, and I'm going to make sure that
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the audience clearly knows good, bad, gray area. There is
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: no question about who sits where at any time. And
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: it's really fascinating because I think the most interesting object
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: arc in this in this movie belongs to claude reigns
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: because he's the tortured soul like you see him living
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: a life where he's like clearly unhappy about the fact
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: that he's selling this guy out that he's he's made
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: his compromise he has his his conversation where he's like
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: i learned to compromise what i've done right by everybody
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: but it's because i had to compromise on certain things
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: and it's like that's the type of um character that's
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the lando calrissian character He's going to betray his best
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: friend's son.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: This deal's getting worse all the time.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: But then at the end, he's like, screw this. I
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: can't live with it anymore.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting because that's the most interesting arc because
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: everybody else, it's very clear. I'm a good guy and
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I'm going to stay a good guy. I'm the boss
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: of the political machine. I'm going to remain the boss
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: of the political machine. I'm the spineless governor and I'm
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: going to remain the spineless governor. But Claude Rains has
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: somewhere to go by the.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: End of the movie. to have a turn.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: That's when we moved into kind of like a science
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: fiction fantasy type reality, where senators actually have a functioning
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: guilt system within their bodies. They didn't have that removed
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: when they took the oath of office and moved to Washington.
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: So that's my biggest gripe.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Well, medical technology in the 1930s, they had not perfected
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: the means of extracting the conscience right medically by that
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: point so that that's the real key difference right there.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: I need to brush up on my history yeah there
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: you go.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: But you're you're absolutely right John I mean looking at
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: and also it happened one night I mean with with
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Jim with James Stewart his only fault is the naivete
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: like there there is not there is no downside to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: this man he's like soup I mean it's not Boy
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Scouts you know it's boy, you know, what was it?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Boy of America. Yeah. Boy Rangers.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Boy Rangers.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: It's very Superman boy scout, like just this paragon of virtue.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And he's in a way though, this movie, it's almost
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: not even man versus man. It almost feels like man
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: versus the nature of the system. Like the, the opposition
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: is this force that, And they're giving it form of
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a person, of the Taylor and things like that. But
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: it really feels like, yeah, this system that is trying
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to crush him.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, even naming the head of the
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: political machine Taylor calls back to Tipper Canoe and Taylor too.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So it's like it's even a reference in and of
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: itself to real life political scandal from the party machines
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: from like way back when.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: I think that this is.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: It's fascinating to see it for the first time and
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: come at it and say, I know why Capra gave
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: it the ending he did.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: He couldn't avoid it. It's in his nature.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I've seen some of his other work. I've seen these two.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: It's in Capra's nature. He's got to... Like they're written
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: into a corner at the end. And then it's like, uh,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: you know what? Claude Rains is suddenly going to have
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: a mental breakdown running and be like, it's all my fault.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: It's all my fault.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And then just seen we're done. Like he can't let
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: it land on the, the, the cynics note, you know, the, the, you,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: you age this film forward into the seventies and you get,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, we're both a part of the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: same hypocrisy Senator, but never think that it applies to
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: my family.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: Like that's, That's where we go to in 40 years.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the, you know, as you said,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the last 30 seconds, because it, I think I'll say
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: on its pros, when I was in film school, I
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: don't remember what a teacher told me, but some of
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the wisdom that was imparted was when you get to
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: your climax, you end the movie as fast as you can.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Like you have a little bit of falling action, but
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But you wrap it up. Now, obviously, not everybody does that.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: But you can see that happen. And it's the Bible
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I stand by. No, I'm just kidding. But I will say.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: For listeners at home, I was shaking my head vigorously.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I will say, and maybe it's more like that was
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: a mantra that you can definitely see in old film.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Because that's more where I was going. Because in this movie,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, yay, they won! not even credits.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: There's no credits back in. It's just logo and we're out.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: And I think initially they had a slightly different ending with, uh,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: shots of them returning home to the, to their state, uh,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: with a parade and a wedding and stuff. But honestly,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, you don't really need it. You, you've, you've
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: satisfied that good has won and now we're, We're done.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: But I would push back on that and say this
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: movie would have benefited from, you know, lap dissolved to
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: him in the hospital bed. And she's like, we did it.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: They voted against the bill.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: You won. You know, that dam's not going to get built.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: And him saying- Wait, what, what, what?
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: His brains are all scattered all over.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: No, but like she's talking to him and you have
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: some sort of moralistic final moment where it's like, well,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: we won this time, but that doesn't mean the fight
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: is over.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: We've all got to keep going in there and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: Like rah, rah. We can keep, we can keep this
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: momentum going.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: You make America great.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Volunteer for your 4-H club in your hometown. Go and
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: sweep the street free of charge. Help your neighbor shovel
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: their driveway. You know, that sort of thing.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: No, and it definitely could have had that to kind
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: of flesh out the ending. I want to kind of
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: discuss again with that last few seconds. Is that the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: only way to end this? or is it, is it
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: possible to have, I don't know more because really he won,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: but he won by outlasting. Like again, if, if the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: character of, uh, you know, Joseph's pain had not folded,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: he would have lost. It's, it's not. So in a
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: way it's his victory, but it's more, it's like when
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you win because your enemy X, you know, those are
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: different kinds of victories and, They're like maybe secondary victories.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It's just an interesting direction. But I do agree with
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: what you said, John, like he was the story is
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: in a corner. He has to win. The Hays Code
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: demands it.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And I just I think that it's why you see
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: again aging forward 40 years. You see that people respond
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to Rocky so positively because it's not about him winning
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the title. It's about him lasting. It's about him fighting
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: because it's the right thing to do. And to out,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: you know what? It doesn't matter whether I win. It
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: matters that I gave it everything I had. And that
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that I want this bill to lose, but
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: that's why I envision in my brain a scene of like, yeah,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: but the fight's not over. We outlasted this time and
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: we got to keep moving. We got to keep pushing.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of this is you see that,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: you know, political scandal is not new, political cynicism isn't new.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: You know, all of those sorts of things. And it's
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: interesting because in the back of my brain, the whole
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: time I'm watching it, I'm like, this is pre-World War II.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: And so you almost have this question of like, did
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: World War II as a unifying principle, we come out
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: of World War II, afraid to acknowledge problems in the
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: system that existed for a while because we were so
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: terrified of the enemy. You know, like it's really, I
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: think it'd be very interesting to look at how like
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: we like to look back and be like, oh, but
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: people really believed in things. And it's like, yeah, but
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: what pressure test caused that? Because if in the 1930s,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: they're making films about what a-holes are in the Senate,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: it's sort of like, oh, well, you know, Meet the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: new boss, same as the old boss, right?
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: And they're passing, like, help bills for the Great Depression. Like,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: that's what they're talking about.
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: But that even gets to, you know, oh, yeah, well,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: somebody put something unpopular in an omnibus bill, and then
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, this senator voted for that. It's like, oh,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: you voted to put the dam in there. It's like, yeah,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: but the thing is, we had to get money out
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: to people. What do you want me to do?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: You know, like, it shows that gamesmanship that happens.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: I think with.
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: John, I think what you're talking about is when the
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: greatest generation came home, they came home to a booming economy.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: Don't shake your head like, oh, maybe I'm right. I'm right.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Both right and wrong.
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: Once they came home, like a chicken in every pot,
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: a car in every garage, And, you know, it was
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: the good life. Like, they helped win the war. And
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: they were coming home to their families. They were kissing
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: nurses in Times Square. And they were able to actually
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: afford a good life. And, like, it was the last
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: war where we were definitively the good guys. And it
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: was that time when everything was moving forward. Everything was great.
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: And so that was the greatest generation. And they... They
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: spawned the boomers. And so the boomers were raised on
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: that mentality that the greatest generation gave them. And so
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: we are the product of the greatest generation. All of
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: us sitting here today is the product of that greatest
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: generation mentality. But if you dialed it back just one decade,
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: I think you would discover what you're talking about, John,
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: about how pre-World War II, like before 38, before the
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: invasion of Poland, you have like Washington is what it
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: always is and what it always was. It's a corrupt
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: cesspool and they're making movies about it.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: But, and then you look at political cartoons, even before that,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: like people had always been trashing politicians and the way
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the system worked and the way that the rich influence
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: things and all of those sorts of things. But it's like,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: but at the same time, what I like about a
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: movie like this that I think is missing is that
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Smith never loses his idealism. I think that's the thing
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: that we get in movies nowadays that contributes to the
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: dispiriting sort of thing of this movie exists to say, yeah,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it sucks. We need to get people in there that
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: are going to fight anyway. And, you know, yeah, we'll
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: get little victories, but the little victories, maybe they'll mount
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: up to something. Oh, look, I'm rewriting the ending again.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: But it is, you know, it's kind of the hero's journey.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: It's the call to action. You have the fall where
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: he's brought into the Senate committee. All this false testimony
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: is brought against him. And he almost leaves like he is.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, you said he wasn't defeated, but he almost
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: was like you do get that arc in that. And
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: then you get only through Saunders. Does he rally to
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: come back in the end? Although it's so funny. I
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: feel like I need to read more about media coverage.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Not movies, but the act of media in the thirties,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: because there's a, there's a disparity. There's a disparity in
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: my mind that he's talking for 24 hours and so
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: much information is live in his state. And I, I
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: cannot wrap my head around it. Not in the age.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: There's no television. It's just radio and newspapers. I mean,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: when he's like in the middle of the night, I'm like,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: who they're on their phones calling in the, I'm like,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: who are they?
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Who are they talking?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: How did, how did you get this parade so fast? Again, I,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I buy it. I don't, I'm not drawn out. It
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: just feels like, yeah, that should have been a week. Well,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: it's 24 hours and it's hard to believe.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I think that what it is, is that the, the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: dialogue doesn't do enough lifting to establish that, you know, what, what,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: what I'm, what is said, which is like, Taylor's like
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: throwing a ton of money. Like he's, It would be
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: nice to have had a moment or two showing people
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: pay like handover stacks of cash to a bunch of
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: agitators or something.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: People like, here you go. You're going to run out
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: and like people are going to wake up tomorrow morning.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: They'll be like, why is everybody hate Jeff Smith now?
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: What's going on?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: And I think that's where it's sort of like because
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: you're right. There is a whole lot of action. I
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: had the same reaction yesterday. where I was like, okay,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I could see organizing a parade and even getting a
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: newspaper out, but I can't see, you know, like, okay,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and then the kids get everything out based on a
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: phone call, and they get everything, their little printing press
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: going and everything like that. But then there's so much
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: that happens where I'm like, wait, they ran over kids?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: What's going on? This does feel like a week's worth
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: of activity. It gets a little dark.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: I remember when I first saw this movie, and Um,
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: I like when I saw them, I was like, clearly
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: they're just going to scare them real quick. Like they're
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: just going to drive real close. And then they straight
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: up hit them. I remember thinking like, that's absurd. That's ridiculous.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: That would never happen. And then you read more about
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: history and then you also open up your phone literally
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: today and you're like, oh, they got off lucky.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's, um, I mean, also keep in mind,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: you know, they're never going to say this on film
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: or anything, but you're living in the era of the mob.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And it's very, you know, people would have known stuff
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: like this would have been going, you know, they had
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: mob hits and stuff like that going on nationwide too.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: And, you know, but I mean, like it is shocking.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Taylor's definitely mobbed up. That's not, but it is.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Shocking, shocking. The kids got hurt.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: It was like, they didn't show anything, but like when
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: that truck hit, I was like.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: What just happened?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: The truck pulls in front of them and they crash
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: into the truck. Like, yeah, that's, yeah. Yeah.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's pretty wild. It's pretty wild.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: And it's like, but you know, I know that, um,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: before we started recording, like we were joking about how, uh,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: you know, Mr. Potter never gets his comeuppance in, uh,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a wonderful life. Taylor never gets his
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: comeuppance here because yeah, he's a force of nature. You're
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: never going to bring that guy down. He's got too
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: much money in power.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe an investigation or something. I guess it probably depends
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: on how much Joseph Payne turns. But really, we know
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: he's so insulated that nothing's really going to happen to him.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, last point on the timeline, you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: they do show a clock a couple of times and
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I kept being confused of like, is that noon? Is
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: it midnight? maybe a single line of it's Friday afternoon
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and we're heading into the weekend. And so we know
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: all this is happening and people aren't at work and
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: they're able to like something framing it a little more
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: would have helped me, but, but again, 39 data doesn't matter.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Just play the movie.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: I would have to think about it.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I would have liked, because I, I, I don't know
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: if this is the rule or not, but like to have,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: somebody somehow pass a note that's like i'm on your
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: side yield the floor so you can rest i'll take
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the torch forward and he has to trust that person
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: and then that person filibusters for a while and like
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: and so that he can yield back i don't know
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: it works that way well.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: You know what it's a movie it can work that
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: way if i.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Say it does tristan it's funny because on this rewatch
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: i've I felt like a scene like that was coming
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm probably thinking of another movie. I cannot name it,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure there's another movie that has a
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: similar filibuster. And when they're, and when the main character
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: is like dead tired, they, They cede to the person
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: and they basically carry the torch for a moment for
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: them to go to the bathroom. I'm sure this has
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: happened in a movie.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: I just cannot remember the title.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Because you can yield and then the other person- Could
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: yield it back to you. Could yield it back to
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: you so that you can go to the bathroom or
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought something like that was going to happen.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: He can't yield because- all of the other senators are
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: going to sell them out and close this thing down.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: But if you heal to somebody that's like on your
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: side and then they just yield back to you, like
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: that seems.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I'll have to look it up. I swear there's another
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: movie that has that action in it. And he's on.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Cause I, I can picture the scene where the, the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: other person says like, Hey, give me the like yield
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to me. And he's unsure that, But then he sees
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that he's on his side. I cannot remember what I'm remembering.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I'll also give to you that it's entirely possible that
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: the rules have changed since.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: The 1930s because you were able to do that. And
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: they were like, okay, no, no, no.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Or I'm sure that there is some sort of chicanery
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: afoot with the whole thing either way.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I'd laugh if the... actual rules and the actual Senate
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: changed after this movie because someone thought, well, man, that
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: could happen. Let's it's called the Smith rule. And it
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't allow you to tie up the Senate for the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: entire 24 hours for the filibuster to go forward after
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: eight hours.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: One must mud wrestle somebody in the center of the
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Senate chamber. No, obviously filibusters can still happen, but it is.
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: The senator must remain standing and stay on the floor.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: Sitting down, leaning, or stepping away yields the floor. Yielding
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: the floor to another senator ends your turn. You do
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: not get it back. Rule 19, the two speeches rule,
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: limits a senator to two speeches on the same question
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: per legislative day, suggesting the absence of a quorum, which
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: would force a pause also cost you the floor.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: So, but you could pass the torch and you go
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: for like 24 hours, then you pass it to somebody
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: else who goes for 24 hours. So you could theoretically
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: keep it going then.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: It's, you still have to stay there though.
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: It's really just like the workarounds are for people. Like
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: if you want to give the guy, guy's voice a rest.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Right. Okay.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: So he has to stay standing there even if he yields.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: So this explains why.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Cause he does stand there and yield when he yields
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: to a question.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Because that's technically yielding, but it's like not fully yielding.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Do you disqualify yourself if you go to the bathroom
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: in your pants?
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: That's the question. Is there anything specifically called out?
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I know everyone grumbled when he pulled out the lunch,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: but when he pulled up his pant leg and you
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: saw the catheter there, you were like, oh, he's in
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it to win it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: We're going for a log brawl. You know what?
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Honestly, with ghost energy drinks, it's possible for filibusters to
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: go for weeks now.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: So, you know.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Well, let's... As we circle around, I would say third,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: but it's more like the Senate floor. Let's talk a
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: little more about Capra. So yeah, we've definitely see a
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: lot of influence, a lot of connection with It Happened
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: One Night. I mean, I am starting to see the Capra-ness,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: because sometimes we've had directors on this show that it
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: just feels like another movie, but a few times it
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: does come together where you start to see a visual style,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the way they are getting that performance out of the character,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the way, you know, they're constructing, you know, shots, especially
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: in the thirties, but, you know, not to discount cinematography
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: or music, you know, we can touch on those if
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: you guys want, but really, you know, I, I'm always
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: amazed that this movie takes so little time in, in
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the story. Like, from the time that the old senator
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: dies to the end of this movie feels like three days.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Everything goes so quickly. But when... So, John, when you
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: were watching this for the first time, were you expecting
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: it to be a more sedate pace? Or were you
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: surprised that it felt like, you know, weekend at Washington?
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: You know, since I didn't know what to expect, I
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: don't know that I was really surprised. What I can
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: say is that the first half, I was surprised by...
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I wasn't entirely engaged with it. I was like, okay,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: you know, this is fine.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: It's happening.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: There were some standout scenes here and there, you know,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: playing with the hat, you know, oh, there's some chemistry
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: here with the leads.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: This is kind of interesting. Sure. Corrupt people, blah, blah, blah.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: It's the second half of the movie that I think,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and if you're going to have a strong half of
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: your movie, the second half should be the strong part.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Because a good ending will completely make up for so much.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Would you say that is the moment he yields the
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: floor to Mr. Payne and it all starts to fall down?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Because that feels like an inciting moment.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: That's really where everything takes off. But I think that
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: it's just finding its footing at first. It's not really
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: sure of itself. It's very consciously putting the pieces together.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: And then you can tell that it was all in
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: service of getting to that filibuster. It was all in
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: service of that. And so you forgive a whole heck
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: of a lot. Because the first half, I was... Again,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I wasn't terribly engaged.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know, it's fine.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: It's a 1930s movie.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: That's a nice way to say bored, John. It's okay.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: It's okay.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, it wasn't bored. I wasn't going
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: to sleep. I wasn't playing on my phone. I wasn't
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: pulling up my computer or anything like that.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I was just sitting there.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, it's interesting. But I was like,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I don't get what the fuss is about here. And
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: then it hits that part where he yields and he
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: gets stabbed in the back.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, all right. I'm with you.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: This is working for me, you know, and from that
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: point forward, I'm, I'm in it. I'm there.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Well, so Tristan, you know, so editing pacing, we've been
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: talking about, you know, the windup and the, and the
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: first half and the second half, uh, I'm almost trying
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to feel if this is even a three act structure
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: or if it is more of a, a B, you know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: beginning and end, how does that come together in your mind?
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Is there fat to trim on this? Would you get
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: to the stabbing in the back sooner? Or do you
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: need all that time in the beginning to really establish
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: these characters so you get the arc of Joseph Payne?
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Or you get the fact that you've really spent time
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: with Smith and you know his idealism? Or is it
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: hitting all the right balance?
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: I'm really curious your thoughts. That's a really solid question.
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: I think that's one of those things where with it
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: being over two hours, it's 130 minutes. It's... It is
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: a three-act structure, but it's really backloaded because, you know,
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: with all that in mind, I mean, the climax runs
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: for 35 minutes, which is closer to a full act
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: than it is a climax. So we're kind of pushing
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: the boundaries of what those three acts really are. And also,
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: you know, the protagonist is mainly passive throughout act two.
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: You know, things happen to him. He doesn't really take
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: charge until the end of the movie. And he's also
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: like the only reason why he's able to do these
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: things is because of Saunders. She's the power behind the
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: throne where he has the gumption. He has the spirit
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: and the title. But Saunders has the ideas and the
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: brain and the methodology to get it done. And also
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: he was going to go home. He was ready to
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: pack it in. And then Saunders came by and says, no, don't.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: You got to keep fighting. You got to keep moving forward.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: And so this watch that I had, I feel like
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of protagonist confusion almost where you're just
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: kind of like, yeah, this is Jimmy Stewart's movie. But,
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: you know, what on earth would his character be doing
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: right now if it wasn't for Saunders? And so with
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: that in mind, in terms of structure and tightening things,
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: like I would probably– I would go a little faster
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: in Act 1, get Jimmy Stewart on the stage a
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: little faster, move a little bit of the beginning of
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: Act 3 into Act 2, so that way it balances
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: out the climax a little bit better. I think the
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: micro-editing is quite solid. I think the macro-editing is good too,
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: but I think it's really down to... kind of a
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: scripting issue where certain things need to be reorganized. Certain
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: things need to move along, move along a little faster
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: and condensed just to keep moving things forward. I'd say that's, that's,
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: that's my main thing is that it's, you know, as
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: I grow up, I feel like I get protagonist confusion.
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: And also I'm so much more cynical now watching this
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: than I was when I was a kid in high
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: school or in middle school.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And it's, Schoolhouse Rock, that's how a bill's made.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: Yay!
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: Even though I knew how it was going to end,
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: as I'm watching it this time, I was just like,
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: he probably should have lost. If this was real life,
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: he'd be lost. He'd be disgraced. They'd put a dead
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: hooker in his trunk. Probably something like that.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: If this was real life, he would have died in
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: a suspicious car accident and cocaine would have been spread
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: around the ground around him. And then you would have
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: gotten letters in the mail a week later about how he,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: you know, he one time slapped a kid in public,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: but you can't find the kid, you know, that sort
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: of thing.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: He stabbed himself in the back seven times. Yes.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: He had it coming, so.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Ugh, Drowned in the Potomac. That's a favorite.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, to your point, I personally don't go quite
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: as far as protagonist confusion. I see it more as-
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I might be overstating that a little bit.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: No, no.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: You are. You really are.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you are.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: I said a little bit, John. I would say- You
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: put so much mustard on that.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: I'm just helping the audience because we're audio, not visual.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: So there you go. I, I feel it's more like
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: he's the, the engine of the train. And then Saunders
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: kind of comes and couples to his engine and now
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: they are the power couple. So yes, he is still
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: the driving force of the narrative because he's Mr.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: Smith.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: He's literally the title character and, But you're absolutely right.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: To kind of piggyback on that analogy, I say if
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: he's the engine, she's the engineer.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: I'll say that she's the dilithium crystals in his warp core.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Does that work?
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: We're going to New Vordermort City. It's going to be great.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: It's going to be great. Yeah, it's going to be great.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, we're going to start with you, Mr.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: John Goes to Podcasting. First time viewing, apparently enjoying this movie.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: And I did.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: And black and white. Give us your final thoughts and ratings, please.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously I enjoyed it. I obviously had feelings about
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: the ending. I had feelings about the first half. So
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: as a result, it's one of those things where I
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: get why it's a touchstone. I get why I could
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: sit somebody down and say, If you really want a
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: sense for Capra really finding his stride for what's going
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: to become a true Frank Capra movie, watch this movie.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: But there were things, you know, the first half's not
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: as engaging as I think it can be. I agree
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: with Tristan that could be tightened up. And I think
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: that there is, I'll lay it at the director's feet
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: that a week's worth of action seems to happen in
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: eight hours while he's filibustering. You know, to your point, Darren,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: where it's like, okay, I mean, I can reason out
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: in my head. I'm like, oh, well, Taylor's got a
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: ton of money, so he's hiring agitators. But it's not
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: expressed enough. And then for it to escalate the way
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: that it does, like it would be one thing if
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: it was like professional agitators. But then it's a thing
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: where it's like, and the Boy Scouts or whatever, the
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Boy Rangers, they get things together. And I'm like, so
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: you're telling me all of these kids... responded with their
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: own little like home printing press that fast.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: In eight hours, that strains a little credulity with me,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: but I think that the overall experience is great. I'm
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: glad that I saw it. So I wind up giving
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: it a four and it's a solid four really enjoy it.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: But I do think that it is a product of
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: its time and a product of a director who's, who
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: knows what he wants to say very clearly and is
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: more in interested in what happens in the back half
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: of the movie and the front half of the movie
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: feels like it's competently put together but not as much
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: of his heart is in there as in the back
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: half so i give it a four excellent.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah i'm i'll go next i also give it a
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: four it's it has been a little while since i
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: viewed this i think we all watched it not all
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: apparently you john but many many people's first experience was
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: like civics class in high school or something where it's
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: a rainy day. The teacher pushes in the CRT cart
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: and they're like, Hey, you're going to learn something about government.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Here's Mr. Smith. We're going to watch it over the
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: next two days. Cause it's a two hour movie. I
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: don't know. A lot of people experienced it that way,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: but it was really enjoyable. I mean, James Stewart is
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: just in this role. Like, Yes, the naivete is there. Yes,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: the hitching with Saunders and all of that. But it's
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: a joy to watch him perform this role. I had
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: no problem buying in to this character, to his desires,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: to his wants, to his way of wanting to make
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: the system better. So much so that they don't have
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: to show the entire speech or all he does is...
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: in the Senate hall. There's huge gaps where we're montaging
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: out in city, in the state that we're from, and
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: we don't need to know that he's carrying that torch
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: in that moment because we can infer it. So yeah,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: I also give it a four stars. I yield the
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: floor to Tristan.
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: I really wanted to give it three and a half,
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: but I think I'm going to give it four as
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: well because the things that work, work so well, it
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: brings it up to a four. I think there are
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: several key things wrong with it that I have and
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: we all have discussed during this podcast. But the performances,
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: the characters, the writing from scene to scene, the message
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: is all stellar. The camera work, I don't think we
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: talked about enough. Capra's camera work, it's shot beautifully. It's
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: shot wonderfully. And I mean, that stuff alone, I think,
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: brings it up to a four. It's not as good
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: as it happened one night. But there are some iconic
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: moments that deserve to be iconic. And so I'm giving
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: this a four.
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: Excellent.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Well, we have one more in the hopper for our
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: wing of Frank Capra. Next week, we're going to be
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: covering Arsenic and Old Lace here on House Lights.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Join the revolution. Join the nerd party.