Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / When Grandparents Don't Get It [a listener Q&A]

Transcript

When Grandparents Don't Get It [a listener Q&A] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, this is The Happy Family's podcast. Sometimes relatives do
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: and say things that are frankly awful and that can
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: really really impact our children. They can be judgmental, they
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  Speaker 1: can be critical, they can be lacking in compassionate perspective
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  Speaker 1: and just leave our kids feeling lousy because our kids
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: are imperfect. They've got their old plates on and every
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  Speaker 1: now and again, people who aren't their parents, like elderly
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  Speaker 1: grandparents for example, can just be so unkind. Today, it's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a tricky question about navigating those challenging family relationships where
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  Speaker 1: the kids are doing their best, but they're not quite
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  Speaker 1: doing well enough to keep the grandparents happy. What do
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  Speaker 1: you do if you've got a neurodivergent child who doesn't
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  Speaker 1: seem to be able to give up to the expectations
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  Speaker 1: of grandparents who don't believe in autism or ADHD. We
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  Speaker 1: answer that tricky question next on today's podcast. Hello and
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get real
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most download
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: of parenting podcast where Justin and Kylie Colson and every
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Tuesday on the podcast we answer your tricky questions about
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: any family matters any well being matter, pretty much whatever
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you want. We're an open book, ask us anything. If
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: you'd like to submit a tricky question, go to our website.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: There's a super simple system at happy families dot com
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: dot a U, or you just press the record button
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: and start talking. Or you can send us a voice
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: memo of podcasts at happy families dot com dot AU.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Here is today's tricky question.
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  Speaker 2: My name is Michelle. Thank you for providing a great podcast.
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  Speaker 2: My husband and I have four daughters. Three of the
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  Speaker 2: four adults, and the last is a fourteen year old.
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  Speaker 2: Our fourteen year old has ADHD and autism Level two.
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  Speaker 2: My mother lives overseas and she came over for visit
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  Speaker 2: last year June, and sad to say, but we are
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  Speaker 2: still burdened by that visit. My mother knew before coming
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  Speaker 2: that my daughter had ADHD and autism. Our fourteen year
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  Speaker 2: old hadn't seen my mother in ten years, and what
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  Speaker 2: was supposed to be a loving reunion ended in an
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  Speaker 2: overwhelming emotional dysregulation. Basically, my mother just judged my daughter
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  Speaker 2: on every aspect of her being. She labeled my daughter
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  Speaker 2: spoiled bratt who just needed a good smack. She interpreted
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  Speaker 2: my daughter's inability at times to socialize, especially in a
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  Speaker 2: large group, as rude. She interpreted her inability to show
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  Speaker 2: affection as cold. She attacked our parenting style as weak
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  Speaker 2: and giving. In she caused a major setback in the
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  Speaker 2: progress we had made with my daughter through OT and
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  Speaker 2: speech therapy. My mother refused to believe that autism was real.
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  Speaker 2: When I tried to explain very patiently, I might add
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  Speaker 2: that neuro divergin children's minds work differently from neurotypical and
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  Speaker 2: that we should support and help them negotiate life skin
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  Speaker 2: zestfully with a diagnosis, She replied, how do we fix it?
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  Speaker 2: My question is how do I move forward parenting my
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  Speaker 2: daughter and helping her overcome the nan doesn't love me stigma.
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  Speaker 2: But because I have autism, I'd love to hear your feedback,
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  Speaker 2: and I appreciate you listening.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Oh Michelle, Oh my heartbreaks. We've been there.
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  Speaker 3: We've been there in different ways and for different reasons
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  Speaker 3: over the years, with family members who think they are
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  Speaker 3: trying to either teach us how to be better or
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  Speaker 3: help us see things with more clarity, and yet it
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  Speaker 3: just leaves you reeling and feeling completely and utterly unsupported.
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  Speaker 1: If there was one message that I could convey to
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  Speaker 1: every grandparent, artie, uncle, step parent, whoever, it would be
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  Speaker 1: kids don't get better when you make them feel worse.
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  Speaker 3: No one gets better, whether it's kids or not, no
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  Speaker 3: one gets better.
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  Speaker 1: That's my point.
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  Speaker 3: And we've talked about this a handful of times over
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  Speaker 3: the last few weeks on the podcast, and I just
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  Speaker 3: I go back to what's the end goal. Do I
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  Speaker 3: want to be a people builder or do I want
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  Speaker 3: to tear people down? Like everybody who is a parent,
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  Speaker 3: I don't think there is a single person who's a
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  Speaker 3: parent that would not at some point acknowledge that this
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  Speaker 3: is such a hard gig. This is like the hardest
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  Speaker 3: thing you'll probably ever do in life.
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  Speaker 1: So I don't have data on this, but I reckon
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  Speaker 1: there's something generational here.
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  Speaker 3: It reminds me of that quote the past is a
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  Speaker 3: foreign country. They do things differently there.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the opening line to LP Hartley's novel The
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  Speaker 1: go Between. I think it's like early nineteen fifties, and.
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  Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many times I have gone
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  Speaker 3: back to that when I have found myself in a
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  Speaker 3: position where somebody of a different generation has said something that.
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  Speaker 1: Just feels so cutting princess, and.
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  Speaker 3: I do so I'm because this is not my mum.
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  Speaker 3: I'm able to kind of, I guess, offer a little
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  Speaker 3: bit of compassion maybe towards the grandmother, because I can
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  Speaker 3: only imagine with a mindset like that that she was
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  Speaker 3: raised with that suck it up, princess, She'll be right
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  Speaker 3: tough nut kind of parenting style, and that would have
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  Speaker 3: probably almost certainly been the way she raised her own children.
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  Speaker 1: I've got a lot of compassion for Michelle, though, because
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  Speaker 1: she's sitting there and saying, I'm trying to teach you this, though, mum.
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  Speaker 1: Like one of my favorite quotes comes from Epictetus. I'm
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  Speaker 1: probably going to get a little bit wrong, but Epictetus,
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  Speaker 1: the Stoic philosopher, said something along the lines of it
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  Speaker 1: is impossible to teach a man or it's impossible to
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  Speaker 1: teach someone what they think they already know. And that's
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  Speaker 1: not a generational thing. But in this case, when it
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  Speaker 1: comes to issues around university, it often seems to rear
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  Speaker 1: its ugly head. People think that thing doesn't exist. I've
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  Speaker 1: got no time for it, I've got no patience for it.
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  Speaker 1: I've got no perspective on it, and therefore we're not
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  Speaker 1: going to be able to progress this. The kid just
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  Speaker 1: needs to sit down, tighten up, get some discipline, slip
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  Speaker 1: around the year old kind of thing.
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  Speaker 3: But that's why corporal punishment was such a huge part
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  Speaker 3: of that generation, because there was no ability to recognize
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  Speaker 3: kids that were actually struggling and needed extra support instead
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  Speaker 3: of punishment.
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  Speaker 1: So here's what I'm hearing in Michelle's question. She's saying,
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  Speaker 1: my daughter feels like Nan doesn't love me, and there's
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  Speaker 1: stigma associated with what I'm carrying. My initial response just
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  Speaker 1: to the Nan is people often talk about how the
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  Speaker 1: opposite of love is hate. I guess it could be,
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  Speaker 1: but in all the pairing work that I've done over
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  Speaker 1: the years, my sense is that the opposite of love
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  Speaker 1: is judgment. When a child feels judged, when a child
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  Speaker 1: feels like the people around them are being critical, they
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  Speaker 1: don't feel loved. No child ever said, oh, my goodness,
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  Speaker 1: thanks so much for the constructive criticism, because criticism is
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  Speaker 1: not constructive in a child's life. It damages the relationship,
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  Speaker 1: it damages self esteem. Yeah, it really is, And the irony,
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  Speaker 1: the irony is the more loved the child feels the
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  Speaker 1: more liking it is that they will be open to
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  Speaker 1: our influence and they're foll more open to change. So
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: we need to answer the question. After the break. I
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  Speaker 1: have three things that I think are going to help
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  Speaker 1: Michelle and her daughter to move forward from what seems
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  Speaker 1: to have been the great undoing thanks to NaN's visits.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Stay wards. This is the Happy Family's podcast, where back
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  Speaker 1: three things Kylie that I think can help Michelle and
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  Speaker 1: her daughter to move forward because things have been pretty rocky.
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  Speaker 1: And one of them is something that you say on
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  Speaker 1: the podcast quite often, and it's starting to become an
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  Speaker 1: internal part of my dialogue. You often say, would I
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  Speaker 1: seek this person's advice? And if I wouldn't, why would
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  Speaker 1: I listen to their criticism? There's a biological desire to
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  Speaker 1: be influenced by parents and grandparents. That's a biological imperative.
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  Speaker 1: And clearly Michelle's daughter wishes she could go to her
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  Speaker 1: Nan for advice, but she probably wouldn't go to her
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  Speaker 1: advice based on everything that's going on. Therefore, why would
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  Speaker 1: she listen to her criticism? My first thing is that
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  Speaker 1: that could actually be a useful conversation for Michelle to
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  Speaker 1: have with her daughter.
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  Speaker 3: There's so much nuanced to this because we have no
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  Speaker 3: idea the relationship that's existed. But there's an acknowledgment that
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  Speaker 3: for ten years there has been no physical contact.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, minimal relationship, so hard to have a relationship of trust.
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  Speaker 3: And that was I was about to say, just when
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  Speaker 3: you look at the fact that we have a child
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  Speaker 3: who has got some really difficult challenges that she's working with,
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  Speaker 3: Grandma hasn't actually been in the story, by the sounds
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  Speaker 3: of things, and therefore does not have a relationship with her,
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  Speaker 3: because if she did, she would have been able to
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  Speaker 3: kind of work through those challenges a lot better. I
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  Speaker 3: believe there's their own relationship. So what's the end goal.
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  Speaker 3: Do we want a relationship with Grandma or do we
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  Speaker 3: just acknowledge and recognize that it is what it is?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And my inclination, based on the distance and based
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  Speaker 1: on the way there's been minimal contact for that ten years,
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  Speaker 1: is that you probably go with part B rather than
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  Speaker 1: part ages there or column B run column A.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, what's number two?
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  Speaker 1: So the second thing I probably should have said this first.
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  Speaker 1: Actually I'd be sitting down with my daughter and just
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  Speaker 1: starting with a whole lot of empathy. I noted that
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  Speaker 1: can sometimes sound like it's very, very soft and kind
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  Speaker 1: of even unproductive. But NaN's impact here has the potential
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  Speaker 1: to cast a long shadow through the lage.
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  Speaker 3: Is so interesting when you think about again going back
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  Speaker 3: to the fact that there's very limited relationship, how is
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  Speaker 3: it that we place so much value on one person's
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  Speaker 3: opinion or viewpoint when they have such a little impact
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  Speaker 3: in our lives.
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  Speaker 1: Bingo, yeah, yeah, and so therefore a whole lot of
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  Speaker 1: empathy and just deconstructing that. There's that recognition. I know
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  Speaker 1: you love your grandma, I know that you wish that
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  Speaker 1: it was different. Wouldn't it be great if And so
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  Speaker 1: you're saying, here's this ideal situation, I'll give it to
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  Speaker 1: you in fantasy because you can't have in reality. So
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  Speaker 1: let's now step back into reality and talk about where
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  Speaker 1: from here.
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  Speaker 3: Just before you go on to number three, as you
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  Speaker 3: were talking, I just think that the next step to
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  Speaker 3: this is that we actually can empower our child, and
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  Speaker 3: in this case, Michelle's daughter, if we're able to help
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  Speaker 3: her reframe her thinking. So she's had this really awful
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  Speaker 3: experience with her grandma and her instant go to is
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  Speaker 3: my nan doesn't love me because I'm neurodivergent, Like that's
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  Speaker 3: her that's her framework, and that may be true. But
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  Speaker 3: is there another way that we could look at this
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  Speaker 3: that could equally be true and less damaging. I think
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  Speaker 3: there's so much power and recognizing our brain will tell
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  Speaker 3: us whatever it tells us right and are not? Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it's all lies, So why not choose something that feels better?
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  Speaker 3: So is it my nan doesn't understand me, she doesn't
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  Speaker 3: get me? Is so much better than my nan doesn't
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  Speaker 3: love me because I am right?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, it's shift.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Have a relationship with my nan and therefore she doesn't
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  Speaker 3: understand who I am.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it she doesn't get me, shifting it back on
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  Speaker 1: to her and saying I'm not a victim here. My
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  Speaker 1: Nan has a perspective issue and that's her problem that
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  Speaker 1: she's going to have to figure out, rather than I
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  Speaker 1: have a behavior as sure, I have a whatever it is.
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  Speaker 3: It my fault. It's not your fault at all.
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  Speaker 1: Yep, for sure love it.
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  Speaker 3: So what's number three?
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  Speaker 1: Well, the third thing that I was going to say,
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  Speaker 1: I really like that you said that is that I'd
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  Speaker 1: be looking to build competence. So Nan has said, how
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  Speaker 1: do we fix her? And I need to sort of
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  Speaker 1: go sideways here for a second. The neuro affirmation model,
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  Speaker 1: the affirmation model that exists in psychology societies around much
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  Speaker 1: of the Western world now is that we give somebody
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  Speaker 1: a label, in this case autism level two or ADHD
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  Speaker 1: or both, and then we say, and you will find
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  Speaker 1: the way that you are and we affirm them. Now
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  Speaker 1: to some level, that's perfectly wonderful and fabulous and important,
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  Speaker 1: But unfortunately, I've spoken with some clinicians, some counselors, I've
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  Speaker 1: spoken with some parents who therefore or chafe at the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: idea that we would work on improving that person. In
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  Speaker 1: other words, the affirmation model has been taken to an extreme,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: such that you are who you are, here is your label,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: here is how you are, and we are going to
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  Speaker 1: be satisfied with you as you are. You would never
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  Speaker 1: do that to a neurotypical child. You'd never do that
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  Speaker 1: to anybody in any circumstance. And I feel like it's
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  Speaker 1: patently unfair.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: So the truth of the matter is you are perfectly
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  Speaker 3: you just because you exist. You're worthy of being loved,
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  Speaker 3: You're worthy of being accepted and having the best possible
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  Speaker 3: life afforded to you.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, but then the question is what does the best
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: possible look like for you? That's right, the best possible
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  Speaker 1: life look like for you, and I would be setting
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: goals with my daughter.
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  Speaker 3: And everything we know about mental health.
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  Speaker 1: Is progress, progress, purpose, competence, development.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: It makes all the difference right, right, And so regardless regardless.
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  Speaker 1: Of yeah, there'll be some people who chase what I've said,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: I want to highlight on talking about people who take
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that affirmation model to an extreme. I don't think that's
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: what the model was designed for, although I do have
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: some challenges with the model, but that is an extreme
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: that it does get taken to, and I've heard it
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  Speaker 1: too many times to not mention it. And so what
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  Speaker 1: I'd be saying to Michelle is set goals. Help your
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: daughter to develop confidence, help her to chase dreams in
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the directions that are important to her, but also in
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: directions that we know are going to be valuable for
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: her to be able to do well in community, in society.
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  Speaker 1: That will be helpful as well.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: I think what would be really helpful with Michelle. It
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: sounds like there's been a pretty big regression as a
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: result of this visit is actually revisiting all of the
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: progress that has been Yes, yes, paint the picture. I
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: know that this is hard, but look at where you
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  Speaker 3: were twelve months ago, and look at what we've achieved
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: together in the last twelve months. We're here, we're rooting
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: for you. We're so excited to see you, you know,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: kind of grow.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Progress is so motivating, and that will be the best
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: way to help your daughter to start to feel confident
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and capable and confident again is to start to make
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: some progress in areas that are important to her and
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: that she can feel good about. So hopefully that answers
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: your question, Michelle, and it's useful for you. If you
• 14:10
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• 14:12
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• 14:14
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• 14:16
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• 14:18
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• 14:23
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