Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 49, Season 1: Work/Relationship Balance with Special Guest Josee Tremblay, Author of "Us and Yet and Yet"

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Episode 49, Season 1: Work/Relationship Balance with Special Guest Josee Tremblay, Author of "Us and Yet and Yet" · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley. Hello, Hello, Hello,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And we also have special guests today Josie Trimblay.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Hi, Josie, Hi Hillo.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: So Josie is the author of the book Us and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Yet yet correct? Yes, yes and background yeah so, And
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: we'll put a link and everything to your book, of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: course in our description. But today episode forty nine, we
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: want to talk, of course about your book, and we
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: want to talk about the balance between work and relationships,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: which I know a lot of your book covers. So
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: first and foremost, just tell us a little bit about
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: yourself and tell us a little bit about your book.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I'm a mechanical engineer by trade. So I
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: had a long career in mechanical engineering and I went
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: on to deal with international assignments in Asia, in North America.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: I lived in the US for a while. I'm based
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: out of Canada right now. I do mechanical engineering work,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: but also all sorts of engineering. A couple of years ago,
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: I came across this document that said we were leaving
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: on the table one hundred and seventy two trillion dollars
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: worldwide by not harnesting the power of women at work.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: And I thought, okay. I met with my CEO, a
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: first CEO and career and he's ninety two now, and
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: he said to me, he says every time I come
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: home and my spouse. I talked to my spouse about
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: something that I have trouble with. She says, Jim, what
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: are you going to do about it? And I thought, okay.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Two years ago, see one hundred and seventy two trillion
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: dollars of money and being left on the table. I
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: thought I needed to do something. So I started writing
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Coach and I ended up writing the book. The book
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: was really about the whole life architecture. I thought, if
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: we want to succeed as women in business, it's not
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: possible for us to be alone. We need to figure
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: out our support network. Whether it's having awesome support at
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: home and they can do all the things that you
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: would not normally have the time to do if you're
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: on a business trip or things like that, and it's
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: also having the support mentally, so you come home and
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: you need to have a way to vent, and you
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: need to have a way to explore the stress that
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: exists within like a pretty demanding career. So my thought was,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: we need to look at the whole life architecture, and
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: it starts also with having a nice relationship with a spouse.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: If you have the chance of having a spouse, and
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: they're a key pillar in that arsenal if you will
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: of life architecture to support your life. So I explore that,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: and then your podcast really explore many things that I
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: thought would be very interesting to mix in the conversation.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: I'm really enthusiastic about hearing what doctor Hansley is going
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: to tell us about that attachment that you might have
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: for a great career, but at the same time navigating
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: that tug of war with the demand of home, life,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: right and family.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: And so I know I already know what Doc's going
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: to say.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I've been here long enough, I know, But you know,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: chime in here, Doc with you know what you think,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: what you see mostly in your practice in terms of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the attachment styles, whether that be female or male, because
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: we know that attachment styles don't really aren't gender specific,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: but they really struggle with that work and family balance.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, it would be for sure the dismissive avoidant. They
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: tend to be workaholics. If they're not workaholics, they're hobbyholics.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: But I would say more commonly they are workaholics because
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: work is a place where they can feel successful where
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: sort of they struggle in their romantic relationships feeling defective,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: feeling like they can't meet other people's needs and meet
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: other people's expectations.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: But they usually tend.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: To really thrive in a fast paced or very complex
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: work environment, and it helps them stay distracted from their feelings,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: It helps them stay suppressed from their emotions concerning their relationship,
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: and they tend to be high functioning in work and
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: feel very highly competent at work, where the opposite is
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: true inside of their relationships.
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: So I'm interested to.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: Know a little bit more about how you feel like
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: people's romantic relationships can really be impacted by being very
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: successful at work, and give us a little bit of
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: a gener or break down too. What are the things
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: that are unique to women and how does this affect
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: men as well?
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the fact that you say how it
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: affects men too, because we have our spouse have experienced
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: similar things. They go to work. If you are a
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: dual career couple, you go to work and you come
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: home and they have their struggles as well. And when
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: you're not super mentally fit to come home and support
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: that partner, it affects both both sides. And you wanted
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: to explore. I have an extract from my book. I'm
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: going to just read it. I have it right in
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: front of me. I pulled it out because I thought
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: it was very relevant to exactly what you're talking about.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: It says the price of success for women at work
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: can be high. The average female manager is less likely
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: to be married and more likely to be childless than
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: her male counterpartner. Half of all women managers are childless,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: and they are twice as likely to have been divorced
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: or separated as their male colleagues. The majority of male
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: managers' wives were there to be supportive, while the majority
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: of female managers were in a dual earner relationship, if
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: they were in one at all. And so that I know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: my heart so sad when I read this, you know,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna have a tear. But when you said
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: suppress feeling, it really resonated for me, doctor Hansley, because
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: I remember taking a thirty day challenge for what do
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: you call it? To meditation in the morning. So it
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: was like thirty day meditation, and it was one that
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: you were supposed to feel. All you could feel, you
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: could hear, all you could hear, you could see, all
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: you could see. It was like really kind of elevating
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: your sensory emotion. And because I've been in a high
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: intensity work environment, I've worked coping mechanisms over the years
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: where I even kill deal with stress, you know, and
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I don't. I tried to be supportive for the team
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: so they don't see their boss being like all excited.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, what it does to my
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: own body is I think I'm suppressing a lot of
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: the emotions that I should be feeling. And this thirty
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: day meditation after twenty I went into work the afternoon
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: and I literally had a panic attack at work. I was, Oh,
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: my god, this is making me feel too much of
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: my own emotion. And it almost hit me like a
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: brick because Wow, how much emotion every day am I suppressing.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: I'm in this high intensity role, and so it was
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: a big red relation. But where I was going with
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: this is like, it's so important that when you come
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: home you have almost like a relief and a way
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: and a partner to be there to communicate with you.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: And it becomes more and more difficult when in your
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: dual career and you didn't have that space during the
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: day to be yourself and to explore your own emotion.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: It makes it more difficult to sustain a long term
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: partner relationship at home. And I'm on my second relationship.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: I think you need to find the right characteristics for
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: And it sounds like you two have phenomenal partners as well.
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  Speaker 1: I heard that, but we're sort of both on our
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: second round too. You know, I was never married before.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, something that I just thought of while
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: you were talking, Josie, is something that Doc talks about
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: a lot, which is, you know, self regulation and coregulation.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important to touch on just based
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: on what you said, because you know, self regulation can
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: be really, really hard, but if you're able to find
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: somebody who you can co regulate with, for those people
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: who maybe suppress a lot or are in high stress,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: high intensity, you know, high up roles with their career,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: it's really nice to have that person to come home
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: to that can help you, like you said, soften and
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: that really nice soft place to fall, and.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I know that it's not always possible.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: So Doc, I want you to hit on, you know,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: just the importance of self regulation and coregulation. And you know,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: obviously both are equally as important.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, so we need both self regulation and coregulation to
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: be successful in our romantic relationships. So we need to
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: be able to bring ourselves into a sense of safety,
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: and I always believe that has to happen first before
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: we can co regulate, because to regulated people can't co regulate,
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: We're just going to get more dysregulated. Right if our
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: partner's also disregulated, we need at least one person to
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: be the oak tree that can ground the pair. But
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: we also need to have to have co regulation where
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: we can sort of sinc in with our partner and
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: we can allow them to sue us and allow them
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: to support us and allow them to help. You know,
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: just relax our nervous system to some degree, because when
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: you're in a high stress work environment, your nervous system
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: is probably not operating in a very regulated state. You're
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: facing a lot of problems, a lot of challenges, And
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: the words I like to use is just putting out
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: a lot of fires. We do that you know, being
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: a high level CEO, you're putting out a lot of fires,
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: and you need to be able to switch into energy
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: where someone else can take the lead. And I'm really
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: lucky that I have a husband who is now a
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: stay at home dad. He's a retired military veteran, and
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: I had a successful contracting business, but as my business grew,
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: it just didn't make sense anymore to have someone that
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: was a stranger kind of raising our kids and eating
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: door dash all the time. That was what we were
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: doing and it wasn't working, and if we looked at
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: the money, it just made more sense for him to
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: lay down his business. And it's really wonderful to see
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: him take that role of dad really seriously and to
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: be there for our kids. But he's also a support
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: for me when I walk out of my office at
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: the end of the day and I just want to
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: kind of collapse on the floor, where he can be like, well,
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: dinner's taken care of, the kids are taking care of.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: Everything around here is taking care of and you can
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: just kind of breathe and let go. I also had
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: it the opposite way in my first marriage. We were
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: a dual income house. I was working very, very hard.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: In fact, I was teaching lots of adjunct classes on
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: top of my full teaching load to make extra money,
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: and then I had a husband that did virtually nothing
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: to help me with the house or the kids. So
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: I do think that it really negatively affected my mental
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: health and my relationship because I had zero work life
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: balance and so, but I also, on the flip side
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: of that, want to acknowledge that for men, it can
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: be hard to have a woman who is very successful
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: in their career in their lives because it can tap
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: into some of their insecurities about needing to be the
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: provider and needing to be the one who's making more
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: money and in being more successful in their work life.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: So talk to us a little bit about that, specifically
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: about how if you want to be a very successful woman,
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: how can you help support your partner in being in
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: being supportive of you as the one who is quote
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: unquote more successful in the relationship workwise.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Wow, So I love where you're going with this. My
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: chapter two of the book is about finding power in
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: the archetypes.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: And yeah, tell us more about the archetype. I would
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: like to learn more about this.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: So I looked at all sorts of historical adage, historical knowledge,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: and in most cultures, they will be highlighting the two archetypes,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: being one feminine and one masculine archetype, and they'll put
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: different stories around these archetypes. And our children are going
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: to grow and listen or listen to stories that are
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: actually describing to us what these archetypes are. And because
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: I'm a woman stem I was one women out of
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: twelve at the table most of my career, so I'm
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: in a highly male dominated environment. It changed a little
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: bit towards the end of my career as a mechanical
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: engineer directly currently I'm doing consultancy, so that's why I'm
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: kind of describing it a little bit in the past.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: It's a couple of years ago that I ended my
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: mechanical engineering per se career, and this part of me
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: was discovered that I needed to be with my partner,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: someone that I wasn't necessarily at home and my second
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: maybe ten years ago, we went on this Tony Robbins,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you know, he's quite yeah, yeah,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: yeah yeah. So we went my spouse and I went
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: to this date with Destiny, and in date with Destiny,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: he brings his spouse and they share about this construct
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: of feminine and masculine energy and how important it is
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: for you to cultivate your feminine energy in your relationship.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: And I was, like, cultivate my feminine energy in my relationship.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: So they were describing to me like, I need to
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: let my spouse take care of all the financial stuff,
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: and I need to let my spouse take care of
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: all these things that I need to be soft and
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: I need to be And at the time it didn't
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: resonate that much. And then I realize it was a
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: golden nugget. It was the golden nugget I did not
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: have when I was in my twenties, and I did
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: not succeed in my first marriage. I guess so. But really,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: my second spouse and I are looking at the world
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: very differently since we went to date with Destiny. We're
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: interacting with each other very differently. I'm the kind of
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: person who managed large capital investments. I managed large portfolios
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: all my life, multi billion dollar p and L. And
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: I looked at this and I thought, I'm very good
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: at finance. I'm very good at all these aspects that
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: are very male dominated, and good at fixing your heating
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: system and your house. I'm shooting my hitting system in
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: my house. So I'm good at all these things where
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: you find a lot of gentlemen normally, So how do
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I actually succeed in a relationship while being this full
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: fledged mechanical engineer at work? And it was a challenge
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: and it didn't rub me the right way. When Tony
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Robbins was telling me, you need to actually let go
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: of finance, and I was like, this doesn't work. But
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: what he was telling us was that I needed to
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: be in my feminine archetype when I'm at home, and
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: my spouse needs to be in the masculine archetype when
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: he's at home and interacting between the two of us.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: We started changing a few things. I started not paying
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: for the bill at the restaurant. It sounds like a
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: small stuff, it's significant. I could just continue to have,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: you know, the rest of my beverage and sit back
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: and relax and be my soft side at home, and
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: he can take care of the bill and worry about
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: how much not tax but tip you need to put
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: on that bill. And that's very the financial oriented. So
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: anything related to finance. I realized that while I was
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: good at it, and I can come and look at
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: a position, an investment position if I want to. That
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: should be the bulk of my worries at home. The
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: bulk of my worries at home should be that we're happy,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: we're comfortable, we're taken care of. So I really have
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: been focusing more on that and less on finance and
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: all the what we would call and vice versa. He's
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: been ensuring that we have a good financial advisor, that
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: we trust him, that all of these things that are
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: going to make me feel secure, because I realize that
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: as a woman, I needed to have that safe place.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: But security comes in very many different forms. It's not
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: just security. It's financial security, it's physical security. So it's
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: safety about everything in your life. So the more safe,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: the more grounded you are as a woman, that I think,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: the more happy you are.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I think so, so security can come in the form
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: of letting go right, which sounds counterintuitive, but this is
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: something we've talked about multiple times on the podcast because
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I've often referenced how being a single mother for a
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: very long time, right where I was just this one
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: person household taking care of this little child and was responsible.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: For all of the things right.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: So then when I married my husband, it's been this
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: new idea of having to let go of certain things.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And just even though I see it from this lens.
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: Of oh no, what's he doing, he's not doing it right,
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: that I have to just let him do it right.
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: I have to let it go so that he feels
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: powerful right and he feels this sense of Okay, there's
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: certain things around the house that I'm responsible to take
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: care of.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: And then I don't have to make all the decisions.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Because here's what I found myself, what I found myself
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: doing was I'm sick of making all the decisions. I
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: don't want to make all the decisions. Come make the
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: decisions for me. And then when he would try, I'd
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: be like, well, that's not right, you know. And it
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: can be really really tricky. It can be really really
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: tricky for a female who has kind of always taken
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the lead on all that decision making to let it go.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: But that's what I mean, there's security in the letting go.
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: So one of the things that I see in my
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: practice is we have what I call the passive husband
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: controlling woman dynamic, where you know, a woman kind of
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: they get married, and the woman's like, I want this
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: house and I want this car, and so the man's
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: like okay, and he's just the yes man, and he
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: gets her the house and he gets her the car,
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: and she's like, I want this many kids. I want
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: this many babies, and he's like, okay, we'll have this
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: many babies. And then she's like, I want to decorate
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: the house in this way and I want this furniture.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: And so he's like okay, you know, and he provides
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: all these things and he's just this yes man. But
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: then over time, because he's provided it financially, he expects
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: her to just manage it all because she's always done
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: the managing of making those big decisions about life.
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: And then what.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Happens is she gets extremely resentful. Yes, she decided to
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: have all of these big things that require a lot
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: of management. But then when she looks to her husband
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: and he's sitting back on the couch just going to
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: work and coming home, and he's like, well, why are
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: you upset? I helped you buy all of these things,
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: and I agreed to all of these kids. And she's like,
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: but no, you're supposed to jump in and sort of.
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: Be fifty to fifty.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, at the same time, you chose this life,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: and you chose this fate expectation that he had that
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: you were also going to then manage it all is
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: not ending up being fulfilled. And she's very, very resentful.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: And then she's very dominant and controlling in other aspects
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: of their relationship as well. And then he is completely
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: in this passive, non masculine archetype and she's in this
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: very dominant masculine archetype. And although she got quote everything
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: she wanted, managing it and making all of these decisions
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: in life on how to run this ship is exhausting
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: to her. And so that is exactly what I think
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: happened in my first marriage for sure, and I see
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: it constantly in clients.
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: So how can couples go, you.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: Know, for people who are getting ready to get married
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: or are entering a long term relationship where they are
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: going to decide to move in together kind of up
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: the empty and the commitment. How would you suggest couples
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: can kind of work this out in terms of managing
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: responsibility of the house and managing their work and allowing
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: that leadership role from the man to come about while
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: also feeling like he has the ability to give some
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: of what his wife is wanting to her in these
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: big aspects of life.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the best way to describe it is
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: to really look at the female archetype, what is it about?
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: And then, as a if you're identifying as a woman,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: to be looking at what these characteristics are. And I
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: have a huge list in my book about what it
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: means to be in the feminine archetype. And once you
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: look at that, you think which part of this can
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: I actually authentically embody. You don't want to be looking
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: at that list and thinking, oh, I would never do that,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: and blah blah blah. Then you don't try it, or
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: if you try it, you say it doesn't fit me,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: and that's okay, You're not. You don't have to fit
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: that archetype one hundred percent. But the more you can
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: fit in in your relationship, the more I think you're
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: going to feel that spark. And we can talk about
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: spark in the relationship. I do see this. In the
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: last decade between my spouse and I, we have been
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: building that spark even more than we had before, and
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: I'm seeing it every day. So I'm really trying to
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: be focusing on my feminine archetype, and on his side,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: he's focusing on what are the male archetypes. And between
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: us at work, we can be whatever we are, but
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: between us when we're interacting with each other, we have
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: our backs. In that fashion, I tried to have his
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: back as a as being a woman in the relationship,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: and he tries to have my back as being a
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: man in the relationship. And it seems very everyone is
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: trying to go in the middle, this inclusion construct, and
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: I think we're losing if we're all trying to go
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: in the middle.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah, so I really agree with that. I think,
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, just from a faith perspective. I mean,
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: God made us uniquely different and gave us unique capabilities
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: and unique traits, and I think when we try to
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: blend it too much, we really become very unhappy.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: For me, I just there are so many things, like
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: like Raina said, I don't like to make decisions in
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: my house, I have to make decisions all day long
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: for the company, and I don't want to make a
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: single day decision. I don't want to choose where we eat.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: I don't care, just pick it. And do it and
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: go right. But I think sometimes men get so afraid
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: of not making the right choice that they rely too
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: much on their part female partners to make decisions because
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: they just want her to again be happy with the
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: decision instead of taking them mental load off of her
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: to have to make the decision in the first place.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: So share with us a.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Little bit of those characteristics of the female and male archetypes.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the female would be, as I said, the caring,
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: the person who's looking after the well being of the
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: people she loves, and it's about looking out for what
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: are their needs, Are they happy, the little cues that
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: might be given that they're sad, to be exploring why
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: they would be sad. So it's really an emotional Anything
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: that would be right brain would be more the exploration
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: of that archetype. If you think about the yang in
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: some cultures, you'll think yin yang. I don't know if
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: you're familiar with that, but absolutely anything that is yang
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: would be female archetypes. So it's darkness, the moon, like
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: it's all of that feeling. You know, we have our
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: female cycles. We go with the moon. So like you
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: can think about that anything that is associated with the
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: change of moods and how you adapt to that, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: the flow and softness and all of these aspects are important,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: and then it goes beyond that. It's almost the benevolence
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: in life, and how do we actually help the world
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: and how do we make the world of bet or place.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: And these are deep thinking that both genders can do.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: But we're really suited for that kind of work because
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: we are suited to look around and feel. And as
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: I said, if I did twenty days of meditation, I
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: started feeling too much from the job that I was in.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: But it's really about that. It's about finding the happiness
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: and making sure that all the people mental health are
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: people in your life, are taken care of at home.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: And the male archetype is about assuring that they come
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: in and they do safe. They create a safe environment,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: They create a good environment, healthy environment for everyone to thrive,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: and they will be making decisions. But if they make decisions,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: usually we need to feel like we're heard, because if
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: we don't feel we're heard, we don't feel secure. So
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: the comment that you made earlier about someone not feeling
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: comfortable about letting the spouse go and try to control
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: the relationship. Well, that person needs to learn how to
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: let go and be in their soft side. But vice versa.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: The spouse, whoever that spouse was, needs to figure out
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: how he can make sure that she's comfortable with her environment,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: that she has the right house to be secure and
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: all of these things, and that it meets her needs.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: So there's that protectiveness the defender. There's all these archetypes
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: that are attributable to more the male archetype. So I
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: would say the top two are assuring safety of the family,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: assuring the well being of the family from a everything
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: is set up and they have the right environment, Lots
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: of the male archetype resonance, and then the female archetype
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: residence is more about all the feelings, the mental health
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: and all that. As I said, you need to be
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: authentic about it. So for me as a you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I'm probably on the spectrum, probably the furthest on the
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: male archetype in my work that you can imagine it.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: And I still found a zillion things that I could
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: authentically embody in this women archetype. No problem because I'm
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: a woman. I identify as a woman, so it's no
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: problem I could find. So as you don't need to
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: be the most I think female oriented archetype in your
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: day to day work to be a female archetype at
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: home and vice versa. The male doesn't need to be
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: could be a male nurse taking care of a person
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: every day and being really focused on the well being
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: at work. But then when they come at home, they
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: need to find a way that they can come into
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: their male archetype with their significant other if they want
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: to have that polarity, smart to consue and grow.
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I really, you know, that really makes me
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: think about how in my practice when I have you know,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: more males are dismissive avoidant than females. I would say
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: about eighty five percent of dismissive avoidance or men.
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: And they don't know how to.
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: Pick up on cues from their partner and meet their
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: partner's needs very well. They're very self directed, self focused.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: It can come across as selfish. And so when I'm
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: working with these individuals and like, well, I just don't
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: know how to meet my wife's needs. One of the
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: things that I tell them is you have data on
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: her every single day. You can collect data on your
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: wife by living with her and noticing what she likes,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: what she doesn't like, what stresses her out, what makes
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: her feel comfortable. And they have these sort of proverbial
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: blinders on, and I try to teach them how to
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: take those blinders off and collect that data. So they're
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: afraid to make decisions because they don't want to make
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: the wrong decisions. And they're like, well, I don't know
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: what to do. Yes, you do, because the data is
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: right there living with you. All you have to do
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: is turn your attention to them. And you're going to
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: have to be intentional about turning your intention to your
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: wife and collecting this data. It's things like noticing what
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: kind of coffee she likes and how she takes her
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: coffee in the morning. It's things like what is her
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: morning routine, what does her bedtime routine look like? I mean,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: when my husband was going Christmas shopping for me, one
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: of the things that he did was he looked through
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: my products and took notice a few months before Christmas
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: of the things that I used regularly and that I
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: would like, and he made those things stocking stuffers. And
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: I thought, what a beautiful thing to do, because he
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: had that intention of collecting the data right on me.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: And so for men out there who are maybe our
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: male listeners or or females who want afford this podcast
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: to their husbands, you have the data she lives with you, right,
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: And so it's about tuning in your attention and giving
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: that attunement to your spouse and noticing the things that
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: help them to thrive and make them feel safe and
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: make them feel comfortable. And all you have to do
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: is look around, and then you won't feel like you're
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: left guessing, right. And then a lot of men who
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: are with dismissive avoidant women, they really struggle because their
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: female partners have so much of the mask an archetype
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: and so much of those male oriented traits where they
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: aren't in touch with their own emotions. And if you're
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: suppressing your own emotions, you can't attune to others' emotions
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: very well. That becomes very uncomfortable and very overwhelming. And
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: so I think it's important for females with the dismissive
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: avoidant attachment to try to look at those characteristics and see, again,
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: like you said, which ones can you authentically embody right?
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: And I think that that really would be important for
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: women who have more avoidant attachment even fearful avoidant women
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: who maybe lean more to that avoidant side of their
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: attachment really trying to embody the things that they can
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: embody authentically. And I love that you used that word
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: because authenticity is so regulating to the human nervous system,
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: and you really hit the nail on the head where
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: if you can't feel like you can embody it authentically,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: it's not going to work. That's going to justs regulate
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: you more. That's going to cause more tension inside of
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: your relationship. And so I love that you said, we
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: don't have to have all of the characteristics, but if
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: we can look at them and pick and choose which
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: ones feel good and authentic to us, then that's going
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: to make us more successful.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: And another thing that you've hit on that hits home
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: for me is reassurance.
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Reassurance from my partner is really what makes me feel
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: safe because in those moments where I want to be
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: in control and I don't realize that I need to
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: relinquish it, sometimes just having him, you know, kind of
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: grab me by the shoulders and say you don't need
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: to do this, let me take the lead.
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And there's something there's really something sexy and beautiful about that,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: because it automatically just those small that small sentence allows
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: me to say okay, and then he feels powerful, and
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: then I can embody my feminine energy.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: And I think this he can even happen in non
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: traditional households. I mean, I would consider my house a
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: non traditional household. My husband does have a very nice
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: military retirement, and he absolutely insists that that pays our bills,
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: and so I allow that to happen. But most things
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: that are fun or extra I take care of, right,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: and then long term investments and big purchases. You know,
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: I'm very very blessed financially with my business that you know,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: I'm happy to have. But he still feels like he's
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: the provider of our big bills and our major bills
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: that run our household. But in the same sense, he's
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: also the cook. I mean, he cooks. He he is
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: very very much in charge of our kids' activities and
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: running them to activities and all of those things which
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: would traditionally be more of a female role, right, preparing
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: meals and running kids around. But he's a really he's
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: really really great at planning all of that and taking
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: care of all of those things and making sure that
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: our kids are where they are supposed to be and
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: have what they need. And then when I come in
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I can be just
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: solely focused on their emotional well being. I can spend
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: time with my older daughter in her room, you know,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: painting our fingernails, or we can you know, my younger daughter,
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: we can play a game or put on do our
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: hair together, or whatever she wants to do. And I
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: get to just focus on the emotional bonding with our kids,
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: where he gets to focus on more of the planning
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: and logistical aspects of our household. And maybe you're pointing
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: out to me now that that's why things work so
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: well between us, because I am coming in at the
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: end of the day and the planning pieces and the
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: logistical pieces and the solution oriented pieces are there, and
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: I don't have to make the decisions in our family
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: about who goes where and does each kid have what
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: they need. We have four kids between us, and I
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: can just focus on making sure that their hearts are okay.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: And as an attachment scientist, emotional attuonment is everything right.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: It is the hallmark of creating securely attached kids and
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: I get to focus my energy on doing that, and
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: I'm good at that and I can thrive at that,
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: and that makes me feel really good. But at the
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: same time, our kids feel great if dad picks them up.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: They love dad and they love, you know, spending time
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: with their dad and having him take that role and
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: our kids being able to grow up knowing that both
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: of their parents were there for them. And of course
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you know my story, but my
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: kids are being adopted by my husband because their dad
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: passed away, and so he is really stepping into the
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: role of their their legal father, and for them to
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: get that experience of having a very involved father is
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: one that I think previous generations didn't get to experience.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: But he still gets to stay in that masculine energy
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: of more planning and logistics and solutions and who has
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: what and who has what coming up? And then I
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: can take that off of my shoulders.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: And I think that's where the shift in perspective has
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: to start, is because like you talk about, you know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: he cooks, and like cooking can still be very masculine,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: right because I know, for Valentine's Day, my husband cooked
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: me a meal, and it was It was the best
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: gift he could have given me.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: Oh that's really beautiful. That's an amazing cook.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: It was the best gift he could have given me
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: because it allowed me again to not like cooking a meal.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Is a big it's hard.
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: It's hard, there's.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Lots of decisions that go with it.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: And so the shift in roles has to be considered
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: right where like you just described, Donald's still living in
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: his masculine even though he's doing maybe roles like cooking
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: or running the kids, but yet logistically he's living in
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: that masculine role. Yes, And so I think that the
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: perspective shift has to happen too in order to really
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: zone in and sink into what is really happening in households.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Absolutely. And my spouse and I that's how
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: he got to start dating me because he cooked me
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: an awesome meal. So I think.
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: Men that cook it is the sexiest.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: Thing in my opinion, And that is something that really
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: made me fall hard for my husband because he wooed
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: me with some cooking at the beginning of our relationship
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: and I had cooked. You know, my first husband never cooked,
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: never cooked anything. And then would complain about what I
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: would cook and only kind of wanted to eat fast
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: food and eat junk food, and I wanted to cook
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: healthy meals. And we struggled with that conflict. But I
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: think not having to cook is amazing. Yeah, I don't
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: want to cook, but you know, a lot of women
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: do enjoy it. I particularly do not enjoy it, And
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: so I'm glad that we have I have somebody that
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: does love that and really enjoys it, but he gets
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: to remain in, like you said, in that masculine energy,
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: and I think that you need a supportive partner like that.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: I could not run this business if I did not
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: have a supportive partner who was keeping track of the
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: kids' schedules and keeping track of the meals and cooking meals.
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: There's just no way.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: There's no way that I could do this and be
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: as successful as I have been without that. And I
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: think a lot of men, a lot of men do
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: ask him like, are you okay that your wife makes
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: all this money?
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: And he's like, I love it, man, I love absolutely.
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: I'm proud of her.
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: I love it, and I love getting to be at
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: home and to spend more time with my children. He's
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: always his biggest life goal was to be a father,
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: and he gets to be a very integrated father. He
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: gets very very involved father. And there's beauty in that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know, Josie, now it seems like you
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: So do you and your spice spouse both have I mean,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: does he have a high up career as well.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's an engineer as well.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: So tell us just a little bit for our listeners
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: how you manage sort of that that dual income household
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: then and where both both people are pushing hard at
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: work and then you have to come by a situation too. Yeah,
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: that's that's rain a situation. And I think about my brother.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: My brother is a his wife is a very very
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: successful executive, very very high up in a major company
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: in Chicago that is an international company. They both do
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: a lot of international travel and they are both killing
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: it in their careers. And so tell us a little
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: bit about that type of environment and how you navigate that.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, So my spouse and I have I would say
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: a fifty to fifty split between all the home. It's
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: a mental task that would come in and we try
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: to navigate it in a way that we do the
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: things we like the best and similar you were talking
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: about strategies around scheduling. I'm not good at scheduling. I
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: can't schedule for the life of me. So my spouse
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: is excellent at scheduling. He's in mega projects and that's
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: his job so much easier for him, and as a result,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: at home, he takes a lot of the mental load
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: as a result, because he is the one kind of
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: looking at making sure that we're all in the right
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: place at the right time. On my side, I think
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: it's really about this government. What are the things that
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: we could do to support each other along the way
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: and aim to be at fifty percent at home. There's
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: a whole chapter in my book about that too. I
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: talked about the fact that I'm trying to deal with
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: the whole life architecture because I do think we won't
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: be successful if we don't have the right support network
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: to be there for us. And that support network starts
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: with your spouse if you have one, and so at home,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: try to figure out a way that you can split
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: fifty to fifty and make it more and more like
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: a really even split, because if you don't get to
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: that balance at home, it's going to be impossible for
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: you to get to that balance at the officer at work,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: and as a result, you will drop out, you will
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: ramp off. I've seen so many people ramp off between
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: twenty five and forty five, which is the thick of
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: things when it comes to kids and logistics and all that.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: And I think the only way you can do it
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: is by trying to figure out a split that is
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: fifty to fifty at home and fifty to fifty at work.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: How would you say you guys emotionally connect now? Are
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you guys intentional about like date nights and making a point? Yeah,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: because I know that that's what my spouse and I
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: have to do. We have to be extremely intentional about
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: because he is a police officer who works night shift,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: and so our our schedules could not be more opposite.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'm working during the day, he's working.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: He's sleeping during the day. I'm working, you know, and
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: so it's like we're just two ships at sea right
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of the times. And so in order to
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: emotionally connect, the only way to do that is to
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: be extremely intentional.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Absolutely one percent. And we do have date night and
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: the kids we are kids are teenagers. Now they know
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: that we are number one for each other. I'm number
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: one for my spouse and he's number one for me.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: The kids are obviously close seconds, but the kids are
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: well aware that the relationship that we nurture is the
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: most important part of our household. And without it, you know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: they wouldn't be able to do the work. Like it's
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: heart wrenching when you have couples splitting up with kids.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: It's difficult. So how do we circumvent that? While I
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: think it's through deep understanding of each other, and it
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: comes from understanding yourself. And that's why I was talking
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: about the feminine archetype being something I discovered, and I'm
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: so happy I discovered it in my second relationship because
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: now you know, I'm able to figure out how we
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: can nurture it. And similarly, I think my spouse needs
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: to do the same. And you do need to come
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: to an agreement where we split the work in a
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: way that is fifty to fifty, even if it's not equitable.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Even if it's not equitable because at work, you, as
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: most women, will be earning and I have it here
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: in the eighty four cents.
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: On the dollar still an issue.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So when you look at eighty four cents on
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: the dollar for a man, when you have to make
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: the tough decision who's going to ramp off their career.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Usually it's the eighty four cents on the dollar that
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: will ramp it off, not the dollar. But then we
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: lose this human capital. People have gone to school, did PhDs,
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: and they'll ramp off because they can't figure out a
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: way to manage it all. So really my advice is
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: figure out a way that you can do that with
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: your spouse, even if it's not equitable. You know.
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's actually an intervention that I give a lot
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: of my clients who really struggle with, you know, feeling
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: like it's fair at home in terms of you know,
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: the household duties. I say, make a list of every
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: household duty that you have, like, be very comprehensive, and
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: then what you're gonna do is you're gonna split it
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: up as equally as you can and try to take
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: the tasks that don't bother you or that you hate
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: the least, right and then but the hard part is
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: of the intervention is you have to completely let go,
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: Like if you're in charge of dishes, and the dishes
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: pile up. I tell the other person, do not go
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: in there and do the dishes. It will become very
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: obvious who's slacking off and who's not holding up their
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: end of the deal. Put the dishes next to the sink.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: I know it will kill you. I know, the type
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: A and you will want to just sit down and
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: be like, well, he didn't do it. I'm going to
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: go ahead and do those dishes. Nope, don't do them,
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: you know, place the plates on until the plates start overflowing.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: And then he has to look straight at those dishes
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: and take full accountability that those were his. And you know,
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: I'm the one as the coach telling you not to
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: touch them, and you're just following my instructions. He's gonna
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: sit there and do it. And it actually works really
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: really well.
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: So if you're the one in charge of, you know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: the kids, making sure their teeth are brushed and they
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: come home with cavities, we know who dropped the ball, right,
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: and so it prevents the blame shifting and the finger
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: pointing and the overall stress. But you have to get
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: to that point of being able to let go of control.
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: And I tell this, especially for women. You know what,
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: he might not do it how you like it. He
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: might not make the bed the way you love it
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: to be made. Don't criticize him, don't go behind him
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: and redo it. Let just the bed be made that way.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: Maybe on the weekends you tidy it up a little bit,
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: or you add some extra pillows, or you do something
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: makes you feel a little bit better. But you know,
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: especially I know for men, that if you go and
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: you criticize the way they do it, they're going to
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: stop doing it because they feel like it's not worth it, right,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: And so part of relinquishing control and moving back into
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: that female archetype is going to be accepting that somebody
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: might not do something the way that you want it done,
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: or they might not do it as timely as you
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: want it done, and you need to be able to
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: control yourself and allow them the accountability of seeing the
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: dishes pile up.
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: For example, Yeah, yeah, let.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Go exactly, It's exactly what you need to do is
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: not criticize, but find ways that you say, hey, listen,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: I see the kids that have cavities now, and it
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: was on your list. Let's figure out a way a
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: path forward. Obviously what we had plan is not working.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: So I think it's and conversation absolutely something as falling
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: as like okay, and what can we do to help
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: to do something different?
• 47:48
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Is that we shift this to make it work.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: And that's a really non critical way to communicate that, right,
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: What does it look like? How can we work together
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: to move forward or how can we work together to
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: make this a better experience for everybody involved instead of
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: you know you this was your job and you.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Failed, right shaming. Shaming is not a loud right.
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: Which a lot of people just do not know how
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: to communicate noncritically, which is something that I teach in
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: my hybrid group. How do you approach these things with
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: your partner and coming in with you know, I really
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: want to have a conversation about this and how we
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: can maybe be more efficient or more effective, how we
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: can work together with you know on this and coming
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: in with this sort of like collaborative mindset versus pointing
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: out the ways in which someone has potentially failed and
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: can can really trigger you know, the wounding that other
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: people carry.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Well, Jessie, I want to I just want to make
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: sure is there anything else you know, where can we
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: find you. Where can people find your book? I mean
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: that's the most important thing.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I think. I want to read your book.
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: I want to read your book for sure.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: So tell our listeners where they can find you and
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: where they can find your book.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so they can go to www. Dots and yet
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: there's dot com so you can find me there. And
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: the book is on Amazon, so you can go on
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: Amazon and order your copy within one or two days.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: We're going to have it at home, and I do
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: have a table in it. We're highlighting all the female
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: and male archetypes, what works well at home, but also
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: what works well in a work environment, because that's something
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: I learned as well. It could be a whole other
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: podcast is how you actually behave in a male dominated
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: environment and still succeed. But really this part, I'm really
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: happy and super thrilled that we had this conversation this morning,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: because I think it's very important for anyone trying me
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: to a career and have a happy, healthy relationship with responsors.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean, it's the world we live in today, right, we.
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: Have a lot of dual income households. It's it is
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: just the world we live in nowadays.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I agree that it's very important and it
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: touches on you know, both our male and female listeners,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: which you know we are very passionate about. So obviously,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: if you guys are watching right now, thank you, thank
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: you so much for listening. Please go pick up Josie's
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: book US and Yet and yet and yet and Please.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: While you're there on Amazon online, go check out doctor
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Hensley at the lovedoc dot com.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Check out all of her services there, her.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Hybrid group coaching program, all of her courses Coach Elizabeth.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: We also have some resources on the on the website
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: and on your Amazon link.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Yep, we'll be sure to add your book.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: To Yeah, we will add your book to our Amazon store. Yeah,
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: that's in my link tree, So anybody that accesses my
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: social media can go to my Amazon store. In books
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: that I find fascinating, helpful in the relationship space and
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: in personal growth and development, I put there.
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: So we will add that there as well.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, and of course we want to mention our affiliate,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Armora Colosstrum. Thank you Armora so much.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: We love you. Obviously.
• 51:01
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• 51:11
  Speaker 2: I mean you know a lot about how it affects you.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: I guess, so yeah, And we just did a previous
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• 51:55
  Speaker 1: And of course if you're a loyal listener of this podcast,
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  Speaker 1: you get twenty seven percent all of doctor Hensley services.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: So by using love doc twenty seven obviously we really
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  Speaker 1: like that code love texts. But so you can go
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: visit doctor Hinsley at the lovedoc dot com. Please check
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: out Josie's book.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, thank you.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: For being on today, Josie. We really appreciate your expertise.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's been very insightful, very insightful, so thank you
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: and to all of our listeners. Until next time, peace,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: love and perspective.