Latest / Possible NOW / Anti-Chaos: Aaron Starkman on Independence, Creative Discipline, and the Last Space AI Can't Touch

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Anti-Chaos: Aaron Starkman on Independence, Creative Discipline, and the Last Space AI Can't Touch · Possible NOW

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to Possible Now, Stories of Possibilities, the podcast where
0:09
Speaker 1: we dive into the leadership frameworks, bold ideas, and personal
0:13
Speaker 1: stories shaping the future of marketing technology and leadership. Before
0:20
Speaker 1: we begin today's episode, let me ask you a question.
0:23
Speaker 1: Imagine you're sitting in the biggest boardroom of your career.
0:27
Speaker 1: The strategy has been approved, the budget has been signed,
0:31
Speaker 1: and every risk has been analyzed. And then outside the stadium,
0:34
Speaker 1: a baseball crashes through the billboard. And most companies would
0:38
Speaker 1: call legal. Today's guest called production. And then 24 hours later,
0:43
Speaker 1: the damaged billboard had become one of the most talked
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Speaker 1: about campaigns of the year. And that story isn't really
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Speaker 1: about advertising. It's about something much bigger. It's about what
0:53
Speaker 1: happens when creativity moves faster than process. Welcome to Possible Now,
0:58
Speaker 1: Stories of Possibilities. I'm Christian Morin. co-founder and global president
1:03
Speaker 1: of Possible and your host. And this podcast isn't about marketing.
1:08
Speaker 1: It's about the people willing to challenge how business, creativity
1:12
Speaker 1: and leadership actually work. And today's guest has built one
1:16
Speaker 1: of the world's most admired independent agencies. Not by trying
1:20
Speaker 1: to be the biggest, but by refusing to become like
1:23
Speaker 1: everyone else. And while much of our industry became obsessed
1:27
Speaker 1: with efficiency, he doubled down on originality. And while others optimized,
1:33
Speaker 1: he protected imagination. And while acquisition became the dream for
1:38
Speaker 1: many founders, he wrote five words that quietly became one
1:42
Speaker 1: of the strongest positioning statements in the advertising business. We
1:47
Speaker 1: will not sell, we think. I don't know Aaron personally,
1:51
Speaker 1: which makes today's talk even more interesting. And because for
1:55
Speaker 1: the next 30 to 40 minutes, we will discover together
1:58
Speaker 1: what kind of person makes decisions like that. Here's Aaron Stockman,
2:03
Speaker 1: Global Chief Creative Officer and Partner at Rethink, the fiercely
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Speaker 1: independent Canadian agency that has become the most awarded independent
2:11
Speaker 1: shop in the world. A very warm welcome to Possible Now, Aaron.
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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me. Excited, a little terrified. We've
2:19
Speaker 2: never spoke on the phone. No email correspondence, nothing. I'm
2:23
Speaker 2: just showing up. That's correct. And away we go.
2:27
Speaker 1: Aaron, when I did my kind of research, you know,
2:30
Speaker 1: watched some of your interviews, etc. My overall impression is
2:34
Speaker 1: that you are far more systematic than people expect from
2:38
Speaker 1: a creative leader. At first glance, you look like the
2:41
Speaker 1: stereotypical award-winning CCO, but in fact, you are actually much
2:46
Speaker 1: closer to a CEO, I would say, who happens to
2:48
Speaker 1: speak creativity fluently. So your reputation is probably not built
2:53
Speaker 1: around being the loudest creative in the room. It's built
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Speaker 1: around creating an organization that that repeatedly produces outstanding work.
3:01
Speaker 1: And that difference, I think it's very important. So before
3:03
Speaker 1: we talk about campaigns and creativity and business, et cetera,
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Speaker 1: I would like to understand the human being much better.
3:10
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, when people describe Aaron Stockman, what's
3:13
Speaker 1: the one thing they usually get completely wrong?
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Speaker 2: I think you did a really good job getting to
3:22
Speaker 2: the heart of it. I look a bit wacky. I
3:25
Speaker 2: need a haircut. I maybe need to not wear a hat.
3:28
Speaker 2: in a professional podcast with many, many, many listeners. But
3:34
Speaker 2: underneath this appearance is something that is very organized. It's
3:40
Speaker 2: wanting structure. I crave structure. I'll mention something about my childhood.
3:46
Speaker 2: It's because you asked about the person and I'll tell
3:50
Speaker 2: you a little bit about the person and it affects
3:53
Speaker 2: how I try to set the conditions at Rethink and
3:57
Speaker 2: for creativity. So backing up, there are, I've said this
4:02
Speaker 2: line before in one other podcast, but there's two types
4:06
Speaker 2: of people in this world. The first type had a
4:10
Speaker 2: wonderful childhood. And the second type is funny. I'm funny. Obviously, yeah.
4:20
Speaker 2: So I'm funny. I didn't have the easiest time as
4:24
Speaker 2: a kid. And it's funny, a while back, during COVID,
4:30
Speaker 2: right when COVID started, actually, we had a partner retreat
4:34
Speaker 2: and there are many new partners and we had to connect.
4:39
Speaker 2: We had to connect as human beings, not just as
4:42
Speaker 2: a company, but we had to connect as human beings.
4:45
Speaker 2: And we were on Zoom for the first time ever,
4:47
Speaker 2: back to that shit show, that weirdness. And we asked
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Speaker 2: a simple question at the beginning, what makes you the
4:56
Speaker 2: way you are? And for me, it was my childhood.
5:02
Speaker 2: And I love my dad. My dad, he's 88, and
5:09
Speaker 2: he's been sober for as long as I can remember.
5:12
Speaker 2: But as a kid, he was not sober, and I
5:17
Speaker 2: had a really tough, tough childhood. In that childhood, as
5:23
Speaker 2: the yelling got louder, I was not abused or anything.
5:27
Speaker 2: I was... It was just a lot. The yelling was
5:29
Speaker 2: my mom yelling at my dad quite a bit, right?
5:33
Speaker 2: And in that environment, I found creativity as a boy.
5:39
Speaker 2: I would sometimes just hide. I would hide behind my
5:42
Speaker 2: bed and I would draw things. I would draw cartoons.
5:46
Speaker 2: And like a professional athlete, when they're up at the
5:49
Speaker 2: plate or on the pitch and they're in the opposing stadium,
5:53
Speaker 2: as the boos get louder and all the noise, they
5:56
Speaker 2: tune it out. And they become better at what they do.
6:00
Speaker 2: And that's what happened to me. I got creative. I
6:04
Speaker 2: drowned out the noise. And it defines me, who I
6:09
Speaker 2: am today. You ask me, let's talk about the person.
6:13
Speaker 2: The person in me is when shit hits the fan,
6:17
Speaker 2: if there is a pitch, a deadline, a crisis, I
6:21
Speaker 2: am locked in. And that comes from my childhood. I
6:25
Speaker 2: perform under pressure. And there is nothing wacky about me.
6:31
Speaker 2: There is nothing disorganized about me. It is one of
6:34
Speaker 2: those there is more than meets the eye. I am
6:37
Speaker 2: the most buttoned down person in the world. And as
6:40
Speaker 2: a result of just kind of who I am, and
6:42
Speaker 2: I think advertising is full of misfits and weirdos and
6:47
Speaker 2: people who didn't have the best childhoods or people that
6:50
Speaker 2: weren't accepted by everyone, I want to set the conditions
6:55
Speaker 2: for people like me to thrive. You know, it's a
7:00
Speaker 2: lot like, there's a lot going on in a smooth
7:04
Speaker 2: running German sports car, in a BMW or a Porsche.
7:09
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on, a lot. But at the
7:12
Speaker 2: end of the day, you just want the thing to
7:13
Speaker 2: go fast. So I try to set the conditions where
7:17
Speaker 2: our company, they can fly.
7:19
Speaker 1: They can go 200 miles an hour. You organize everything
7:23
Speaker 1: in the engine room. You organize everything there.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of people think that creativity is best
7:29
Speaker 2: when it's surrounded by chaos or chaos is part of it.
7:34
Speaker 2: I'm anti-chaos. There's enough chaos in the world. There was
7:38
Speaker 2: enough chaos in my childhood. I want this to be
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Speaker 2: the least amount of chaos within the walls of rethink
7:46
Speaker 2: to produce the best possible results and produce like a standard, frankly,
7:52
Speaker 2: a standard for other creative companies to want to emulate,
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Speaker 2: and that's in our vision.
7:58
Speaker 1: Wow, what a powerful and meaningful intro, and of course,
8:01
Speaker 1: explanation about your childhood and where you come from. Obviously,
8:04
Speaker 1: you needed to focus on something else when things happened
8:08
Speaker 1: at home, as you described, the yelling, and there was creativity,
8:11
Speaker 1: and it's great to understand that this was the base, obviously,
8:15
Speaker 1: for your personal development. I like the fact that you,
8:18
Speaker 1: how you describe chaos and the noise in our societies,
8:22
Speaker 1: in our world, in our industries, I see it from
8:25
Speaker 1: a different perspective because something you obviously don't know. I'm
8:28
Speaker 1: based in New Zealand. I live in New Zealand for
8:30
Speaker 1: 20 years now. So the distance gives me also some clarity,
8:34
Speaker 1: obviously from the noise and all the cares out there.
8:36
Speaker 1: It's a different perspective as you describe it, but I understand.
8:40
Speaker 1: I think I understand what you mean. You prepare everything
8:43
Speaker 1: and you take care of your people and to be
8:47
Speaker 1: successful as an agency and as individuals. Obviously, you don't
8:51
Speaker 1: care about the awards so much. you won everything. You
8:54
Speaker 1: personally won everything. Your agency won all the awards. It
8:57
Speaker 1: would take too much time to list them all. But
9:00
Speaker 1: which achievement made you proud that nobody in Kent, for example,
9:04
Speaker 1: as the biggest platform in our industry, ever noticed? Is
9:09
Speaker 1: that how you prepare your company, your team, your employees
9:13
Speaker 1: to be successful? Is that the thing?
9:16
Speaker 2: It's cliche. I do take a lot of pride in
9:20
Speaker 2: seeing people rethinkers thrive. And someone said this to me recently,
9:28
Speaker 2: I'll knock on wood. They said, there's something weird with rethink.
9:33
Speaker 2: It's like nobody, nobody leaves. They get offered a lot
9:37
Speaker 2: of money and they don't leave. It's the place where
9:40
Speaker 2: I see juniors grow up, become intermediates and then ACDs
9:47
Speaker 2: and then group heads and CDs. And then, you know,
9:50
Speaker 2: in the case of of Mike Dubrick, my partner, my
9:53
Speaker 2: good friend, in the case of him, North American CCO.
9:59
Speaker 2: So it's beyond words how that makes me feel, how
10:04
Speaker 2: it makes all of us feel. But we do have
10:07
Speaker 2: a bit of a cheat code in terms of our process.
10:11
Speaker 2: And we do have values that I don't believe holding
10:16
Speaker 2: companies have. Sorry to all the holding company people listening
10:21
Speaker 2: that are in large towers. But we do subscribe to
10:27
Speaker 2: a familiar saying. We prioritize people, product, and profit in
10:32
Speaker 2: that order. And I think that has something to do
10:36
Speaker 2: with why we do have what I believe is one
10:39
Speaker 2: of the best retention rates in the business.
10:42
Speaker 1: Who was the sentence really written for, you know, when
10:44
Speaker 1: you said, we will not sell Rethink? And everybody can
10:48
Speaker 1: see it on your LinkedIn profile as well as a headline.
10:51
Speaker 1: Was it for your clients, for your employees, for yourself?
10:57
Speaker 2: It started off as a bit of a joke. And
11:01
Speaker 2: my partner, Sean and Caleb, even said to me, hey, like,
11:05
Speaker 2: maybe tone down the all caps and the exclamation marks,
11:08
Speaker 2: which I think I did. I think I might have
11:10
Speaker 2: had an F-bomb in there. So I edited it. At first,
11:15
Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to be like crazy provocative. We got
11:20
Speaker 2: a lot of calls and emails.
11:22
Speaker 1: Positive emails, positive reactions. Yeah, yeah.
11:24
Speaker 2: People have, you know, really tried to have us be
11:29
Speaker 2: part of a holding company and to sell. We won't sell.
11:33
Speaker 2: We can't sell. We have a structure that's similar to
11:38
Speaker 2: another agency we admire. Wyden and Kennedy, it's impossible for
11:42
Speaker 2: us to sell. So we're not going to. And I
11:46
Speaker 2: just want to be clear externally, but also internally. I
11:50
Speaker 2: want our people to know that we talk about it.
11:53
Speaker 2: We talk about it at all staffs. We call it
11:55
Speaker 2: like Rethink Reflects, which is like a town hall. And
11:59
Speaker 2: we say it, they know it. And with what's going
12:02
Speaker 2: on in the advertising landscape right now with brands, you know,
12:09
Speaker 2: like really nurtured and cared for brands, agency brands, just
12:15
Speaker 2: being dismissed and thrown away. With that going on, with
12:19
Speaker 2: mass layoffs, and if you don't make your numbers in Q3,
12:25
Speaker 2: there's layoffs and there's such a recency bias. I want
12:30
Speaker 2: our people to know we're not looking quarter to quarter.
12:33
Speaker 2: We've had bad years on purpose because we can. We're independent.
12:40
Speaker 2: We've had bad quarters to keep our people, to have
12:43
Speaker 2: the people to do the work that we need to do.
12:46
Speaker 2: Less people, if we were just to look at the
12:49
Speaker 2: third P, profit, and just operate in that way, I
12:53
Speaker 2: think people would be really burnt out, miserable, and our
12:59
Speaker 2: retention rate wouldn't be what it is.
13:02
Speaker 1: So in other words, also an offer of, let's say,
13:04
Speaker 1: make it up $ 5 billion for your agency wouldn't change
13:07
Speaker 1: your mind and your partner's mind? No.
13:10
Speaker 2: That's impressive.
13:11
Speaker 1: Because, yeah, I mean, we're running a business, right? At
13:13
Speaker 1: the end, you shared your ranking, people, and profit came last.
13:17
Speaker 1: But it's a business, right? We have to take care
13:19
Speaker 1: of people as well. And we have to make this
13:22
Speaker 1: business somehow successful. Otherwise, we can't move on with it.
13:25
Speaker 2: I mean, it's tricky. We could sell. If it was
13:28
Speaker 2: $ 5 billion, it's like, what are you selling? You're selling
13:32
Speaker 2: your word, your integrity, your soul, right? We have a
13:36
Speaker 2: promise about doing things the right way. Like, I don't know,
13:41
Speaker 2: just take a bunch of money. There's more to life.
13:46
Speaker 2: Someone was right over here before, right behind me, Justin,
13:50
Speaker 2: a copywriter, and we were talking about this, and we
13:52
Speaker 2: were talking about we have Independence Week. That's E-N-T apostrophe S,
13:58
Speaker 2: Independence Week. And that costs us money. We're paying for
14:02
Speaker 2: everybody to go away, basically. We're saying take off. We
14:06
Speaker 2: pay your salary. It's an extra week off on our dime.
14:11
Speaker 2: And we were talking about what we did on Independence Week.
14:14
Speaker 1: That gives a kind of understanding about the uniqueness of
14:17
Speaker 1: Rethink and how you build Rethink and how you run
14:20
Speaker 1: this company. So let's make people also a bit uncomfortable.
14:39
Speaker 1: When we think about your beliefs, what's one belief almost
14:43
Speaker 1: everyone in advertising repeats or follows that you simply no
14:47
Speaker 1: longer believe? Do you see something, you know, everybody is
14:51
Speaker 1: rushing behind and following as it looks like sometimes in
14:54
Speaker 1: our today's world, you know, there's one message and everybody
14:57
Speaker 1: follows this immediately. It's a trend at least for a
15:00
Speaker 1: couple of hours or a couple of days. What is
15:02
Speaker 1: one you simply no longer believe? What about one that
15:05
Speaker 1: you don't believe in anymore? I have to say, The
15:09
Speaker 1: speed in our world, I don't believe that this is
15:12
Speaker 1: always healthy. I like speed at some stage, you know,
15:15
Speaker 1: when it comes to efficiency or you can get A
15:18
Speaker 1: to B, not physically, but, you know, reach your goal,
15:20
Speaker 1: whatever you have in mind, a bit faster because of
15:23
Speaker 1: today's technology and all these things. But in general, I
15:25
Speaker 1: would say as a society, speed is not always good
15:28
Speaker 1: because you lose some ground sometimes. It doesn't look solid
15:31
Speaker 1: enough sometimes. So that's my kind of belief, if you
15:33
Speaker 1: ask me.
15:34
Speaker 2: I generally think, I wouldn't call this a trend, but
15:38
Speaker 2: It's funny, I'm talking about being buttoned down, organized within
15:42
Speaker 2: the walls of rethink. But I think that approach, if
15:47
Speaker 2: we're just sticklers to that, and just go by typical
15:51
Speaker 2: planning cycles, and the typical timelines, you know, typical media buys,
16:00
Speaker 2: I think that is what we do sometimes. But we
16:04
Speaker 2: often divert away. And you know, you mentioned these awards
16:09
Speaker 2: and the recognition. But it's also how we gain business.
16:13
Speaker 2: It's also how we gain more business with our existing clients.
16:16
Speaker 2: It's from not following a straight line. You mentioned Coors
16:20
Speaker 2: Light at the top. There's got to be room for that.
16:24
Speaker 2: There's got to be room for things that I guess
16:27
Speaker 2: can do the opposite of what you said. Go fast.
16:31
Speaker 2: So we have something called Go Then Grow. And There's
16:37
Speaker 2: one thing that a brief many, many months out can't
16:40
Speaker 2: account for, and that is things that pop up in culture.
16:45
Speaker 2: A mistake, an accident, happy accidents, like with the Coors
16:48
Speaker 2: thing with Shohei. What happened was the most famous baseball
16:52
Speaker 2: player in the world hit a ball so hard, it
16:56
Speaker 2: hit a Coors Light digital board, and it created a
17:01
Speaker 2: black box that And it made a Coors Light ad
17:05
Speaker 2: a really ugly ad. And our team pounced on it.
17:11
Speaker 2: And we do, as I said, something called Go Then Grow.
17:14
Speaker 2: We got a social post together very fast, like within
17:20
Speaker 2: five hours. We shared that with the client. There wasn't
17:26
Speaker 2: a single meeting about this, like a single typical meeting ever.
17:31
Speaker 2: a Zoom meeting, no in-person meetings, no bullshit meetings. It
17:34
Speaker 2: was all done through Slack and text. And what happened
17:37
Speaker 2: over the next little bit, the social posts became like, hey,
17:41
Speaker 2: here's to hitting the spot or something like that. A
17:45
Speaker 2: nod to the refreshment cues of Coors Light in North America.
17:51
Speaker 2: And then we asked, should we do something on this?
17:54
Speaker 2: Should we make these cans? People said yes. And In
17:59
Speaker 2: real time, it's like beta testing. So this makes comfortable clients.
18:04
Speaker 2: You're seeing the reaction on something as simple as a
18:07
Speaker 2: social post. If it's a disaster, you pull it. If
18:10
Speaker 2: it's gaining like all positive sentiment, you keep going. You
18:14
Speaker 2: keep putting gasoline on the fire. And that's what we did.
18:19
Speaker 2: We made cans and we made it into a massive thing.
18:23
Speaker 2: So as people react more, the client will invest more.
18:27
Speaker 2: and that's what we do all the time, which is
18:31
Speaker 2: not typical. It's not typical to, after you get a
18:35
Speaker 2: 360 brief, which we got on IKEA, we got a
18:40
Speaker 2: brief on sleep, but a team came to us way, way,
18:45
Speaker 2: way too early, a day and a half after we
18:47
Speaker 2: got briefed on what would be broadcast billboards in a
18:51
Speaker 2: traditional media buy, a team came to us, So soon
18:55
Speaker 2: after that and say, hey, Valentine's Day is coming up.
18:58
Speaker 2: This is like kind of related to the brief, but
19:02
Speaker 2: we have this thing where we want to sneak into
19:04
Speaker 2: people's DMs and just say you up, which I don't
19:08
Speaker 2: know if it's a thing in New Zealand, but in
19:09
Speaker 2: North America, that means like, are you down for a
19:12
Speaker 2: booty call? So we sent that out to 200 people
19:17
Speaker 2: to have the client gain comfort in it. It was
19:21
Speaker 2: an overwhelming response. And then. the client, they pressed go
19:26
Speaker 2: and they kept going. They made it bigger. Then there
19:28
Speaker 2: was a paid buy through Snapchat and then it went
19:32
Speaker 2: out of the market and went globally and became a
19:34
Speaker 2: much bigger thing. And that was just after briefing while
19:39
Speaker 2: we were working on the big 360 thing. So I
19:41
Speaker 2: just don't think it's always a straight line. Sometimes it's
19:45
Speaker 2: just like we start, there's a spike and then come
19:48
Speaker 2: back to the thing. But it's just ways to help
19:51
Speaker 2: sales and really just out-earn the investment.
19:55
Speaker 1: Obviously, it wasn't predictable. And this is the good thing,
19:57
Speaker 1: you know, that things still happen without being predictable. When
20:00
Speaker 1: I hear people always asking, you know, it should be
20:02
Speaker 1: better planned. Great to see that it also works differently.
20:07
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think, you know, we
20:08
Speaker 1: are also entering an era where brands will increasingly discovered
20:12
Speaker 1: by AI before they're discovered by humans. And my question
20:17
Speaker 1: to you is, does creativity now have two audiences, the
20:21
Speaker 1: people and the algorithms? What do you think about that?
20:26
Speaker 2: You got to have a question about AI.
20:30
Speaker 1: It influences our daily work and it influences people's behavior
20:34
Speaker 1: out there, which I think is a fact. So Do
20:36
Speaker 1: you consider this as a second audience in some way?
20:39
Speaker 2: I don't. No, I don't. I stick to the basics,
20:43
Speaker 2: and we have a way of summarizing that. It's trickle-down
20:50
Speaker 2: creative standards that percolate through the whole company. Leaders are repeaters,
20:55
Speaker 2: and I say this till I'm blue in the face.
20:58
Speaker 2: The way we just keep it simple is actually just
21:02
Speaker 2: by using an in-house acronym called CRAFTS. C-R-A-F-T-S. The C
21:09
Speaker 2: is for clear. Is this clear? The R, is it relevant?
21:15
Speaker 2: If it could be done two years ago, not so much.
21:19
Speaker 2: If it could be done two years from now, not
21:21
Speaker 2: so much. The A is for achievable. Like, is it
21:26
Speaker 2: going to shut down the brewery? Is legal going to
21:29
Speaker 2: shut it down? Are we going to get sued? Now,
21:31
Speaker 2: a cease and desist, no biggie. We've convinced our clients,
21:36
Speaker 2: no biggie on that. The F is for fresh, right?
21:40
Speaker 2: If it's done, it's dead. The T in crafts is
21:45
Speaker 2: for true. Is it true for the brand? And this
21:48
Speaker 2: is the most important thing, is the T. And I'll
21:51
Speaker 2: get back to that in a second. And the S
21:53
Speaker 2: is for shareable. And crafts has been around so long
21:57
Speaker 2: that it actually used to be craft, but the S
22:01
Speaker 2: came along after Facebook was invented. So that's how long
22:06
Speaker 2: crafts has been around. You asked the question about, you know,
22:10
Speaker 2: do we have like a secondary audience about the algorithm?
22:13
Speaker 2: I really do think if we just stick to this,
22:17
Speaker 2: make something that taps into specifically into the R, the relevance,
22:22
Speaker 2: and the T, the truth of crafts. If we do
22:24
Speaker 2: those two things really, really, really well, the rest will
22:29
Speaker 2: take care of itself. So on Coors Light, the R,
22:34
Speaker 2: obviously relevant, like super hyper relevant. It happened a day,
22:38
Speaker 2: like a day ago or four hours ago. So like
22:42
Speaker 2: we give that a score. It's five out of five relevant.
22:45
Speaker 2: And then the T, is it ownable for this brand?
22:48
Speaker 2: I can't think of any other brand that this would
22:51
Speaker 2: be true for. So We have five out of five
22:54
Speaker 2: relevance and five out of five truth. That tells me.
22:58
Speaker 2: It tells our creative directors. It tells our team. They
23:00
Speaker 2: all go by the same scorecard. Crass. We need to
23:03
Speaker 2: do this. We need to do it now. If we
23:06
Speaker 2: got those two things, the rest takes care of itself.
23:09
Speaker 2: It is going to go viral. It did. That's the S.
23:13
Speaker 2: And we are religious about this. When we see work,
23:19
Speaker 2: when we give direction, we have our creative directors say,
23:22
Speaker 2: say to the teams, hey, guys, you know what? It's
23:27
Speaker 2: two out of five C. It is not the clearest.
23:30
Speaker 2: Try to make it more clear. Try to get it
23:32
Speaker 2: to at least four out of five clear. But you
23:35
Speaker 2: got the T. You have the S. So we talk
23:39
Speaker 2: like this. So it seems a bit like a cult.
23:43
Speaker 2: But the word culture doesn't exist without cult. So there
23:46
Speaker 2: you go.
23:47
Speaker 1: I like that definition. I have to think about something
23:49
Speaker 1: similar for my own work and my own team.
23:52
Speaker 2: Our Molson client, Molson Coors MCBC, they knew about this
23:57
Speaker 2: acronym at a working session with many of their agencies. Well,
24:02
Speaker 2: actually all their agencies. We went to Chicago and at
24:06
Speaker 2: the end of it, funny enough, they came up with
24:08
Speaker 2: their own acronym, MUSCLE. It's like Rethink does that thing.
24:12
Speaker 2: So they came up with MUSCLE. And so now when
24:15
Speaker 2: we look at MCBC briefs, we're making sure we're looking
24:18
Speaker 2: at MUSCLE as an acronym And crafts as an acronym.
24:22
Speaker 2: And funny enough, they mostly align. They're just different words.
24:26
Speaker 1: We touch base in some way on AI. I have
24:30
Speaker 1: to do one follow-up. Everybody talks about AI replacing human
24:34
Speaker 1: beings and creatives in some ways. What's something AI has
24:38
Speaker 1: actually made more valuable about human creativity? How do you
24:42
Speaker 1: see this influencing in a very positive way for your
24:46
Speaker 1: own work?
24:47
Speaker 2: We have an enemy at Rethink. The enemy is the
24:50
Speaker 2: reason why we do crafts. It's why we have a
24:54
Speaker 2: relationship accelerator, like with clients. The enemy is spin. Spin
25:00
Speaker 2: is sin. We don't like spinning our wheels. We don't
25:04
Speaker 2: like wasting time. We don't like make work. We want
25:07
Speaker 2: to get in at nine and leave at five and
25:12
Speaker 2: have the most optimized system imaginable. AI is a friend.
25:19
Speaker 2: of efficiency, and it frees up people's time. It makes
25:23
Speaker 2: us work less on bullshit. I had a team working
25:28
Speaker 2: on a brand, and this happens all the time. Things shifted,
25:33
Speaker 2: and the team was asked to come up with some
25:37
Speaker 2: scenarios for American football. It's not in their wheelhouse. They
25:43
Speaker 2: don't know anything about American football. If there was no AI,
25:50
Speaker 2: we could send an all-staff, hey, who knows about American football?
25:54
Speaker 2: We can ask, which strategist knows about American football? Now,
25:59
Speaker 2: I told the team, I said, okay, just use AI,
26:02
Speaker 2: include some popular, insightful scenarios that fit with this idea, right?
26:09
Speaker 2: What would someone do in this situation, that situation? If
26:12
Speaker 2: they were at home watching with friends, what is something insightful?
26:16
Speaker 2: So we get insights from AI fast. That just saved
26:19
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of time. So AI is really, really
26:23
Speaker 2: helping things. But a funny thing, the president in Cannes
26:27
Speaker 2: of the outdoor jury, I'm actually encouraging our teams to
26:32
Speaker 2: fall back in love with outdoor because I'll tell you
26:38
Speaker 2: what I told my jury. Outdoor is the last remaining
26:43
Speaker 2: space that we don't share with AI. AI is not
26:49
Speaker 2: out there. They are not driving by in their cars
26:53
Speaker 2: looking at billboards, right? It is advertising for humans, by humans,
27:00
Speaker 2: and it's a real special one. We don't share it
27:03
Speaker 2: and it's incredible. And I think the best outdoor can
27:08
Speaker 2: really connect and it really fits with crafts. A lot
27:11
Speaker 2: of the best rethink work is in the outdoor space.
27:13
Speaker 2: It's like you go, oh, only that brand. can do
27:19
Speaker 2: that that's a special thing and you got one second
27:22
Speaker 2: to do it you know you got eight words max
27:25
Speaker 2: and a visual and that's the power of an idea
27:29
Speaker 2: and crafts the acronym helps us get to those ideas
27:32
Speaker 2: as long as we don't have the majority of our
27:35
Speaker 2: cars you know are not self-driving cars you know and
27:37
Speaker 2: maybe with all this technology on board right and then
27:40
Speaker 2: identifying all these outdoor advertisements it's hard not to go
27:44
Speaker 2: down the rabbit hole on this but i like many
27:47
Speaker 2: was a little like freaked out. You know, there were
27:50
Speaker 2: some doomsday articles a while back, and you didn't know.
27:54
Speaker 2: You didn't know what it meant for our industry. I
27:57
Speaker 2: think we know. To use a boxing analogy, I feel
28:01
Speaker 2: like we took their best punch, and we're still standing.
28:05
Speaker 2: And now, you know, for the last year, everyone has
28:09
Speaker 2: their own AI intern, and it's just part of life.
28:13
Speaker 2: And it turned out to be not the thing that
28:17
Speaker 2: everybody was expecting. We're already past the paranoia, the fear,
28:22
Speaker 2: and it's now just like, let's get excited by it.
28:25
Speaker 2: Let's have it help our lives and let's embrace it.
28:28
Speaker 2: We touch base on you as a person and how
28:31
Speaker 2: you grew up and how you became who you are.
28:34
Speaker 2: We touch base a lot.
28:35
Speaker 1: On your agency, how you run the agency, your beliefs
28:39
Speaker 1: as an independent agency. We touch base, not enough, of course,
28:43
Speaker 1: on technology and I, but I enjoyed this quick perspective
28:46
Speaker 1: on that because it came from a different angle. So
28:49
Speaker 1: for this season, we want to end up our conversations
28:54
Speaker 1: with the possible five, which is five quick questions, no overthinking,
28:59
Speaker 1: and potentially short answers.
29:01
Speaker 2: I set the standard. Let's go.
29:03
Speaker 1: What belief about our industry will be dead within five years?
29:07
Speaker 2: Slow and steady wins the race.
29:09
Speaker 1: What's something you've completely changed your mind about recently?
29:13
Speaker 2: A.I.? I've changed my mind on AI. I thought it
29:17
Speaker 2: was the end of the world, and now I think
29:18
Speaker 2: it's the beginning of the world. Okay, third one.
29:21
Speaker 1: What's one question nobody ever asked you, including myself, that
29:26
Speaker 1: you wish they would?
29:28
Speaker 2: Here's my honest answer. There is not a question that
29:32
Speaker 2: I wish someone asked me. I have a gift and
29:35
Speaker 2: a curse, and it's that I'm an open book. You
29:38
Speaker 2: will know who I am. You knew in the first
29:41
Speaker 2: two minutes of this conversation about my childhood. So that's
29:46
Speaker 2: how I live.
29:47
Speaker 1: So let's turn it into, I could ask you every
29:49
Speaker 1: kind of question.
29:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no boundaries. Go for it.
29:53
Speaker 1: Finish this sentence, please, when it comes to your daily work.
29:56
Speaker 1: The best creative leaders always....
30:01
Speaker 2: They follow the brief. They like staying in the box.
30:07
Speaker 2: They like structure. Like a German sports car, there's a
30:12
Speaker 2: lot going on to make a fast car. You don't
30:13
Speaker 2: just go. You need highway lines.
30:16
Speaker 1: And you provide those, for sure.
30:18
Speaker 2: Yes, otherwise you drive into a ditch. Aaron, last one.
30:22
Speaker 1: Complete this sentence as well. The future is possible when?
30:26
Speaker 2: The future is possible when your priority is setting the
30:31
Speaker 2: conditions for success.
30:33
Speaker 1: And obviously the priorities are set by people, by leaders
30:36
Speaker 1: like yourself.
30:37
Speaker 2: Yes, and it trickles down. Leaders are repeaters, and we
30:41
Speaker 2: have some sticky language and some sticky things and some
30:43
Speaker 2: sticky acronyms and processes. And It is repeated because I'm
30:48
Speaker 2: not in every meeting. Our North American CCO is not
30:51
Speaker 2: in every meeting. So you need a playbook. And we
30:56
Speaker 2: follow a playbook, no matter who is in the room.
30:59
Speaker 1: That's a great last statement, at least for today's conversation, Aaron.
31:02
Speaker 1: It was a bit different, but I enjoyed every single minute.
31:07
Speaker 1: And as I said, Aaron, before today, we didn't know
31:09
Speaker 1: each other. Now it feels we are great friends. Now
31:12
Speaker 1: I understand also something that has nothing to do with awards.
31:16
Speaker 1: Because the world's most creative companies are not built because
31:20
Speaker 1: somebody had the best ideas, right? They're built because somebody
31:23
Speaker 1: had the courage to protect those ideas long after everyone
31:27
Speaker 1: else became uncomfortable.
31:29
Speaker 2: And you're doing this.
31:30
Speaker 1: And I also want to thank you for reminding us
31:32
Speaker 1: that independence isn't a business model. It's a mindset. I
31:37
Speaker 1: think that's very important to understand. So I would like
31:40
Speaker 1: to thank you for joining us in today's Possible Now
31:43
Speaker 1: podcast episode. Thank you so much, Aaron.
31:46
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
31:50
Speaker 1: If you're curious to learn more about Possible, sign up
31:52
Speaker 1: for our newsletter. Or if you want to join us
31:55
Speaker 1: at the Possible show in Miami, visit possibleevent.com. Possible Now
32:00
Speaker 1: is a co-production of iHeartMedia and Possible. Our executive producers
32:04
Speaker 1: are Ryan Marks and Yasmin Melendez. Our supervising producer is
32:08
Speaker 1: Meredith Burns. Special thanks to Colleen Lawrence-Mack from our programming team.
32:13
Speaker 1: Our theme music is composed by Anthony Catacoli. For more
32:17
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32:21
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.