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Murder In Moscow: Bobby Chacon And His Take On The Murders · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. One
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: of the questions that everybody still has as far as
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: these murders go surrounds the motive. What was the motive
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  Speaker 1: that Brian Koberger would have, according to authorities, to kill
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  Speaker 1: these four college students while they were in their beds?
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  Speaker 1: And that has been a big mystery since this all started.
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  Speaker 1: Everybody has been asking that question. Why would he do this?
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  Speaker 1: And why would he target these kids specifically? And when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to murder cases and it comes to trials,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of times on TV, you'll hear them talk about, well,
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  Speaker 1: you have to have a motive to make an arrest.
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  Speaker 1: That's not the case. You don't need a motive to
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  Speaker 1: get a conviction in court. If all of the other
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: evidence is pointing at somebody, motive is not needed to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: secure that conviction. Now, of course, it helps make your
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: argument as prosecutors when you can point to a reason
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: why somebody would commit crimes like this. Certainly bolsters your argument.
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  Speaker 1: But sometimes there are just sick, degenerate people out there,
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  Speaker 1: like Mr. Koberger, it would seem, who don't have any
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  Speaker 1: rhyme or reason to That goes with their madness. And
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  Speaker 1: who knows what it's going to end up being here.
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  Speaker 1: But I wouldn't be shocked if we find out that
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  Speaker 1: there is no motive whatsoever besides this guy's own degenerate thoughts.
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  Speaker 1: But as far as motive needed for a conviction, it
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  Speaker 1: is not necessary. Just like the murder weapon is not
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  Speaker 1: necessary either. So today we have an article from Newsweek.
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  Speaker 1: And in this article, we get the opinion on all
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  Speaker 1: of this. of Bobby Chacon, an ex-FBI agent. So, let's
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  Speaker 1: dive into the article. Headline, why Brian Koberger's motive is
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  Speaker 1: not important for conviction. Ex-FBI agent. This article was authored
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  Speaker 1: by Kalita Rockman. The motive of the suspected killer of
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  Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students is not important for securing
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  Speaker 1: a conviction according to a retired FBI agent, and it's not.
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  Speaker 1: I know that there's that myth out there, like I
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  Speaker 1: said in the opening, but you really don't need that
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  Speaker 1: motive if you have all of that other evidence. Now,
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  Speaker 1: if you have no other evidence and you just say, hey, look,
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  Speaker 1: this person killed so-and-so, well, you're going to have to
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: prove that, right? You're going to have to provide evidence
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  Speaker 1: and build your case, all of that stuff. But we've
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  Speaker 1: already seen the probable cause here. We've seen what the
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  Speaker 1: police have compiled so far. And it's damning as hell.
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  Speaker 1: You don't need a motive. Not when you have all
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  Speaker 1: of the other evidence that they have compiled so far,
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  Speaker 1: and that's just what we know of. Can you imagine
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  Speaker 1: what they're cooking up behind the scenes? Brian Koberger, 28,
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  Speaker 1: is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one
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  Speaker 1: count of felony burglary in connection with the slayings of
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  Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. A
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  Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit, unsealed on Thursday, revealed investigators used DNA evidence,
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  Speaker 1: surveillance footage, and cell phone records to connect Koberger to
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  Speaker 1: the crime. He was arrested at his parents' home in
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  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania on December 30th and returned to Idaho to face charges.
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  Speaker 1: So it's not like they swooped him up on some
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  Speaker 1: flimsy charges here or on some flimsy evidence. Very strong evidence.
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  Speaker 1: Strong enough that the judge didn't offer bail. Strong enough
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  Speaker 1: that that probable cause warrant was signed pretty damn quick.
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  Speaker 1: And if it continues on this path, Brian Koberger's cooked, folks.
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  Speaker 1: I haven't seen one thing yet that would lead me
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  Speaker 1: to believe that he isn't the man that the authorities
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  Speaker 1: say he is. Obviously, he is more than entitled to
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  Speaker 1: his due process, but from my spot over here in
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  Speaker 1: the peanut gallery, old boy looks as guilty as anybody
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  Speaker 1: I have ever seen. But one aspect of the case
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  Speaker 1: that the affidavit did not shed any light on was
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  Speaker 1: the motive for the killings. Bobby Chacon, a retired FBI agent,
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  Speaker 1: said he believes investigators are gathering evidence that may shed
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  Speaker 1: light on Kohlberger's motive. And I'm pretty sure that they're
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  Speaker 1: doing that as well. They have to rebuild everything that
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  Speaker 1: he did online. They have to rebuild everywhere he went.
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  Speaker 1: And it's not an easy process. But once you have
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  Speaker 1: somebody in your crosshairs the way the FBI and the
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  Speaker 1: investigators do here, it's a whole hell of a lot
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  Speaker 1: easier to build a profile on them and a working
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  Speaker 1: profile of what they were up to, where they were going,
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  Speaker 1: who they were hanging out with, what sort of establishments
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  Speaker 1: they were at, all of that, because it's all going
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  Speaker 1: to come into play. They have to figure out how
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  Speaker 1: Koberger got these girls on his radar to begin with.
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  Speaker 1: And that seems to be the mystery right now that
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  Speaker 1: nobody can figure out. How did he even know about
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  Speaker 1: these girls? Where did he find them? Where did he
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  Speaker 1: come across them? I've said for quite some time now
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  Speaker 1: that I believe it was probably at the Mad Greek restaurant,
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  Speaker 1: considering all of the other factors, but it could have
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  Speaker 1: been anywhere else too. A coffee shop, a supermarket, at
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  Speaker 1: the movies. We just don't know. I think they've got
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  Speaker 1: an idea of the motive and they're looking for more
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  Speaker 1: evidence of that motive, he told News Nation's Brian Enten
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  Speaker 1: on Sunday. But it's not necessary to determine what the
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  Speaker 1: motive was to secure a murder conviction, Chacon said. And
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  Speaker 1: that's a fact. I know there's a lot of folks
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  Speaker 1: out there that think, you know, you need a motive.
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  Speaker 1: You need a weapon. You need a body. And while
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  Speaker 1: all of that stuff does make the prosecution's job a
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  Speaker 1: lot easier, it is not necessary or required to get
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  Speaker 1: a conviction. As an investigator, motive was the least important
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  Speaker 1: thing I did because most murder statutes, you don't need
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  Speaker 1: to prove why somebody does it. My main thrust as
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  Speaker 1: an investigator was who did this crime and how do
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  Speaker 1: I prove it? How do I help the prosecution get
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  Speaker 1: a conviction? He said, and that's really what it comes
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  Speaker 1: down to. I don't need to prove motive if I
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  Speaker 1: can prove that you murdered somebody. All I need to
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  Speaker 1: prove is that you murdered them. The why of it
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  Speaker 1: was always the least important of it for me, unless
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  Speaker 1: it led to other things in the investigation. Unless it
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  Speaker 1: is the blunt defense motion, a defense assertion, that it was,
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  Speaker 1: you know, self-defense or something like that. And we know
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  Speaker 1: that's not the case here. There's zero chance Brian Koberger
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  Speaker 1: is going to be trying to use a self-defense case
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  Speaker 1: to when he's in somebody else's home there to commit murder.
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  Speaker 1: So again, the motive is really not something that is
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  Speaker 1: needed as far as prosecution goes, but it's certainly something
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  Speaker 1: that all of us would like to know. Obviously, everybody
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  Speaker 1: wants to wrap their mind around why somebody would do
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  Speaker 1: something like this. And even if it's something that we
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  Speaker 1: can't understand and something that doesn't correlate with regular thinking people,
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  Speaker 1: I think everybody wants to know what would motivate Brian
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger to do some shit like this. Before students were
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  Speaker 1: found dead in an off-campus rental house in Moscow, Idaho
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: on November 13th, Gonsalves, Mogan, and Kernodle lived there with
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  Speaker 1: two roommates who were not harmed. Chapin was visiting Kernodle,
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  Speaker 1: his girlfriend. Following the murders, weeks went by without an
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  Speaker 1: arrest and police released few details about the investigations. leaving
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  Speaker 1: the town on edge. The affidavit revealed that Koberger was
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: on law enforcement's radar by late November and that a
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  Speaker 1: warrant for his arrest was requested after DNA taken from
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  Speaker 1: the trash outside his parents' home was matched with DNA
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  Speaker 1: on a knife sheath recovered at the crime scene. And
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: it's still bananas to me that Mr. Criminal Minds over here, Mr.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Mandy Patankin from CSI, is leaving his sheath at the
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  Speaker 1: crime scene. What an absolute moron. A Pennsylvania native, Koberger
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  Speaker 1: had arrived in Pullman, Washington, just across the state border
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  Speaker 1: from Moscow sometime last summer to begin his doctoral studies
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  Speaker 1: in criminology at Washington State University. According to the affidavit,
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  Speaker 1: cell phone records show his phone was near the area
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: where the murders occurred at least 12 times prior to
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  Speaker 1: November 13th. So for the investigators, That establishes a pattern
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  Speaker 1: that establishes more probable cause for them to arrest Brian Koberger.
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  Speaker 1: Remember all of that stuff that they were collecting, all
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  Speaker 1: that circumstantial evidence is what led up to that probable
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  Speaker 1: cause warrant being drawn up. Investigators will continue to look
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  Speaker 1: into what the motive was because prosecutors always like to
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  Speaker 1: tell the jury, the story of why this happened. Chacon said,
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  Speaker 1: but why certainly is not needed for a conviction. It's
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  Speaker 1: not required by the statute and it's not, but he's
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  Speaker 1: not wrong. The jury is going to want to hear
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  Speaker 1: what happened, but with all of the other evidence that
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  Speaker 1: has been provided just circumstantially, my guess is even without
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  Speaker 1: the motive, they're going to paint a very vivid picture
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  Speaker 1: for these jurors determining motive. is always the most nebulous
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  Speaker 1: part of a case like this, Chacon added, because quite frankly,
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  Speaker 1: there is no rational reason to do this. And when
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  Speaker 1: we find out the why, it will be very unsatisfying. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it usually is. It usually is. But as a family
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  Speaker 1: member or a friend of one of the murdered, you
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  Speaker 1: always want to know why it happened. So it's going
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  Speaker 1: to be important for that portion of this anyway, for
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  Speaker 1: them to determine what the motive was. Prosecutors. attorneys, and
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: investigators can no longer talk about the case after judge
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  Speaker 1: Megan Marshall issued a gag order last week, prohibiting any
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  Speaker 1: of the parties from talking about anything reasonably likely to
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  Speaker 1: interfere with a fair trial. But Jason Labar, the public
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  Speaker 1: defender who represented Koberger in Pennsylvania, previously said Koberger is
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: eager to be exonerated. Well, I'm eager to hit megabucks
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  Speaker 1: or the lottery, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.
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  Speaker 1: So Mr. Koberger should probably batten down the hatches and
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  Speaker 1: get ready for the long haul. All right, folks. That's
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  Speaker 1: going to do it for this one. If you'd like
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  Speaker 1: to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find me on
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed
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  Speaker 1: can be found in the description box.