Latest / BBQ Therapy / Chris Schafer – Heavy Smoke BBQ | Built to Win

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Chris Schafer – Heavy Smoke BBQ | Built to Win · BBQ Therapy

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Lego Ham BBQ Lego Ham BBQ Lego Ham BBQ Lego Ham BBQ Some
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barbecue on. Get your barbecue on.
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Welcome to the BBQ Therapy Podcast.
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My name is Tavis Bryant of Yago Ham BBQ.
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Have you ever stood around a smoker or a grill?
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Felt the world fade away? Now that's BBQ Therapy.
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Welcome to another therapy session.
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My name is Tavis Bryant and on this episode of BBQ Therapy
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we're joined by one of the most dominant forces in competition
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BBQ today, Chris Shaffer, pitmaster of Heavy Smoke BBQ.
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Known for his precision, passion and podium finishes, Chris has
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racked up countless grand championships and made a name
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for himself not only on the KCBS circuit but also as a mentor
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ambassador for the sport. We dive into his BBQ journey
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from backyard cook to elite level competitor and get his
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insights on staying consistent, building and winning team, and
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the mindset it takes to compete at the highest level.
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Whether you're weekend warrior or gearing up for your first
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comp, we'll soak in soak up every minute of this.
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Let's fire it up with Chris Shaffer with heavy smoke.
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I got one rule, make yourself at home.
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Speak freely. I have no sponsors and have fun
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and how you doing today? What's up man?
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Thanks for having. Me, all right, no problem.
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And I didn't read out your accomplishments because you can
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see behind you as well as anybody that's listening.
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Google heavy smoke and look at the photos and you can see the
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inside of the restaurant. So he's definitely a champion.
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I get lucky from time to time. You got a clove relief in your
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back pocket, So what sparked your love for barbecue and how
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did it evolve to competition cooking?
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Honestly, dude, it's funny I tell people this, they're always
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surprised I didn't eat BBQ growing up at all from Saint
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Louis. So my dad, he would grill up
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some pork steaks on the gas grill.
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But that was my extent of barbecue.
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And I started cooking in a restaurant when I was 15.
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So all through high school and college I cooked in high end
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restaurants. So I'm I'm a better chef and I
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have a pit master, honestly. And I was working at Sprint as a
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store manager of a Sprint store, The guy that worked me.
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And you cook, right? And I was like, yeah.
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And he's like, you BBQ. I was like, not really.
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And grill some burgers, whatever.
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He's had to talk to some BBQ. You should come hang out on one
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of these things. And I'm like, all right, why
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not? So I go out there.
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And honestly, that was 2000, 2011.
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I think it was just a drunk fest.
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Honestly. I think, I think we drank.
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I guess I used to drink. I don't need more.
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But I think we drank like a handle of Sailor Jerry.
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And I was like, this is the worst night of my life.
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We wake up the next day, He's like, all right, you're cooking
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chicken. I'm like, I'm doing what?
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And he's like, yeah, you're cooking chicken.
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I'm like at the condos. I probably have cooked chicken
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thigh in my life other than restaurant stuff.
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And so they walked me through it first time out and I think I got
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38th out of like 42 teams. And I was just stoked I wasn't
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dead last. And he's going to be the chicken
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guy. I was like, all right, here we
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go. Literally the first rib I ever
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had in my life was a competition rib.
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You know, I mean, we weren't going out eating ribs or nothing
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like that. I was a restaurant cook and this
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guy, the guy asked me to get started and I just fell in love
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with the competition aspect of it.
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Wow, so after that did you start practicing or did you go into
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classes? Maniacal, like when I want to do
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something I do it right. So that next year I just took
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what he gave me and I think we cooked 5 contests and the best I
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got was like 11th place chicken. And after that year I was like
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never again. I'm not going to contest and not
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getting calls. It's just not happening.
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And so that winter, man, I man, I don't even have a number.
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I bet you I cooked 1000 chicken thighs.
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I was cooking 6 to 12 thighs 3-4 times a week, man, I was just at
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any given time, I'm just cooking thighs to the point that my
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whole family was I can you please stop cooking chicken.
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And the first contest we came out and I guess 2013 we go to
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and they call me first place chicken.
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And I remember a guy they said Cole, sweetie.
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My buddy's name was Cole and he had a sauce on the market and
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the guy behind me go Cole the 1st place you can Cole sweet
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heat and the guy behind me goes who the fuck is that?
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And I turn and I said me I said me and I walked up there and I
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get it and that was Saint Louis. So we cooked a little KCBS and
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that was Saint Louis barbecue side we just found Saint Louis
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Barbecue Society. So the next contest we go to 1st
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place chicken Cole sweet heat and people are like what what is
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going on. Next contest we go to, I think I
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got 3rd or 4th and then we cooked the KCBS to Sam's Club
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invitation on Lexington, KY and I rolled second place chicken.
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And so like Cole, Cole's a good dude, great cook, He's a mentor
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of mine, but he wasn't really getting calls, but I'm getting
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I'm top five every week. So I think we cooked 6 contests
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that year and I was top five and everyone but one contest he had
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me cook ribs and I got A and he was cooking the other 3
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essentially. And then the next year we had
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scheduling conflict, so I was working retail and so it was
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hard for me to get out on Saturdays and he never cooked on
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Sundays because he went to church and we had a contest.
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It was a Saturday, Sunday. And I was like, man, cool.
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I said, you mind if I go cook this contest?
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And I bought his trailer, a couple, his drums.
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I took my drum, my Weber Smoky Mountain.
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And I asked my brother-in-law, Jimmy and my buddy Danny to go
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with us are with me. And I was just going to cook 1
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contest. I had 0 intention to starting my
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own team. And so I go out there, I got to
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cook the team name and I didn't plan on starting my own team.
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So I did as an ode to Cole all the time.
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People would be like, hey Cole, how do you make such great
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barbecue? And he knows you go, man, just
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salt, pepper and heavy smoke. And so I literally signed up as
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salt, pepper and heavy smoke. And before I sent that
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application, I'm like, that's just too long, man.
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So I literally just drew a line through salt and pepper and
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submitted as heavy smoke. So there's 38 teams there and we
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stayed up all night that my buddy Rob Monkey used to be on
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the podcast and my podcast I used to have with me and stuff.
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We stayed up, drank with him all night, whatever.
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And so I think like I said, like 38 teams.
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I got like 5th and chicken and my brother-in-law, Jimmy and my
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buddy Danny, they'd never been to a contest for us.
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They had no idea. So I walk and get that 5th place
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chicken like man, that's pretty good.
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I'm like, yeah, that's really good.
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And I get second in ribs and they're like, dude, that's
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awesome. I'm like, yeah, it's great.
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And I get second in port and they're like, this is awesome.
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I'm like, yeah, stop talking to you.
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You know what I mean? I'm like, just leave me alone.
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And then I got 5th and I got 5th and brisket.
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We finished the reserve grand and we I cooked with Cole.
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We'd never GC or RGC the contest.
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So the first contest I cooked is heavy smoke I reserved and then
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the Saint Louis barbecue side takes your top 6 cooks.
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And so that year I cooked I think 3 contests with coal and I
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cooked 6 contests as heavy smoke and I finished 7th for team of
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the year, only having 66 cooks. And I told Cole I said man, I
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got to do this thing. And so I went forward is heavy
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smoke and I I finished second or third for Saint Louis Team of
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the Year for four straight years.
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I just couldn't get over that home.
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And then in 2019, I guess 2018 I started cooking some KCBSS heavy
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smoke. I reserved 1.
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And in 2019 I we finished first for the Saint Louis Barbecue
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team of the year. We finished first overall, first
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in chicken, 1st in pork, first in brisket for the team of the
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year. Just had a breakout year.
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And then that same year, so in 2018 we got a reserve at
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Kennett, MO which is a KCBS and that got us in the KCBS
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Invitational. And so a lot of people don't
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know this story or even never put it together, but 2019, I got
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out of the first ever KCBS Invitational and I win it and
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it's a world championship. But a lot of people don't
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realize that that was my first KCBSGC.
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My first KCBSGC was a world championship.
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And then so that year I cooked, I think I cooked, I cooked the
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12, I cooked 12 SLBS and I cooked, I think it was 17 KCBS.
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And I finished, I had 12 GCS and five RGCS and I finished first
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for SLBS Team of the Year and I finished 17th in the world for
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KCBS only cooking like 17 contests.
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And that was when everybody was like I do, who is this guy?
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And then 2020 I went straight to KCBS and I've been there ever
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since. Wow, so wish your what do you
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think your strongest category is and which one took you the
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longest to dial in? It changes chicken.
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I've always been, I started in chicken.
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I've cooked more chicken than anybody else.
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I have more trophies on the wall for chicken than anything else.
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But it's changed, man. Like 2019, I was just winning
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brisket all the time. Like people like, dude, what are
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you doing in brisket? But so it goes back and forth
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and I think it's 2020 and I think 2020 and 2021 I tied for
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fourteen of the year. And the next year I think I was
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third for 14 of the year. So pork was hitting.
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And then last year, yeah, last year I guess it was I couldn't
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cook all year, so my GM at the restaurant was pregnant, so she
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took off a couple months Midsummer and I was leading rib
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team in the year about like 400 points when I had to stop
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cooking. I still finished fourth in the
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world in ribs. I didn't cook the last three
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months. So right now I'd say right now
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I'd say it's ribs. So you racked up a lot of good
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wins. What's your mindset going to a
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competition weekend? Are you just lose or you be
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dialed in, serious or? And I just, I'm just there to
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cook and turn in good food. I've done it so long.
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I've done it so long that I know that like it's up to the judges.
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I just got to do my job, man. I just got to, I just got to put
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in four good categories and hope you get good tables.
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And that's it, man. I'm just put in four good 4 good
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categories. So what do most new teams get
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wrong about cooking for judges that you think?
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They don't like, they literally don't understand what we're
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doing. Like, yeah, you hear guys go,
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oh, man, I got beat up in chicken and I think I'm a
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tighten it up a little bit this week.
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And then they get a call and they're like, all right, so they
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want it tight. Then the next week they're 18th
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and the chicken, they're like, oh man, I thought they wanted
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tight chicken. And then like they're constantly
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chasing their tails. They don't understand that you
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have different judges every week at different parts of the
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country. Even if you had the exact same
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24 judges at a contest, you could go for contests in a row
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and not see the same judges because there's different
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tables. You know, I'm saying they legit
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don't understand what we're doing.
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And so like on any given day, there is a perfect tenderness on
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chicken. On any given day, there's a
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perfect tenderness that those judges want.
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And guess what? We don't know what it is like
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they might want tight that day, they might want loose that day,
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they might want it, they might want it soft, they might want it
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overcooked. We don't know.
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So all we can do is just run our stuff, put it in and hope it
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hits right. So like people are like, oh, I
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took, I took chicken thighs in 205.
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Why? Why?
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Can you explain to me why you taking 205 or 208 or 211?
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I cook it. I cook the timeline at 11:15.
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I take chicken off the smoker. I don't know, it's 205-2082
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eleven. I just cook it.
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That time I take it off and it and I and I went chicken a lot.
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You know what I'm saying? If I probe it, it's to make sure
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that the skin is very soft and the actual texture, the meat
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feels right. I'm not looking for a number.
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I don't care. Yeah, it's definitely true
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because I judge for GBA and in the tent it'd be young people,
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it'd be old people, and all of them don't.
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Your taste buds are different so you can't determine what who go
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what. Yeah, like they do cooks.
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They're they pay attention to all the wrong things.
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One of my best friends in BBQ is Bread Lininger and he's
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legitimately the best cook to ever do competition BBQ.
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You should watch that guy cook, man.
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You watch him cook and you're like, this is his first day.
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He's just going through the motion man.
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He's doing his thing. And if he needs all the add
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salt, whatever, he's going on color, he's not following the
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timeline, He's not checking on gateways, he's not checking at
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the temp. He's just, he sets him and
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forgets him. And you see new cooks over
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there. Just make it.
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Make it so making a small adjustment, open it up, close it
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up. Dude, just let the pits run.
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Cook your food. We're just cooking food and they
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pay attention to all the small things.
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I just talked to a buddy of mine.
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He was saying like, wow, my chicken got a little spicy.
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I really, I think I measured the rubs wrong and I was really
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focused on how to how to like make sure I measured exactly
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right. And I think I fixed the spicy
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and I'm like, why do you add a little sweet?
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You know, I mean, if you tasting this little, this little spicy,
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why don't you just cut spicy out?
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But he's, oh, I never thought of that.
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Pay attention to the wrong things.
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I took a class more time. The guy was measuring the rubs
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to the gram and I just raised my hand.
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I was like, yeah, I'm not doing that.
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I'm never doing that. You watch me my class making
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sauce and I'd be like, I need some of this, need some of this.
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All right, it's done. Like I can give you a recipe,
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but I'm not mentioning anything. Yeah, that's definitely true and
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I'm a witness to that. So what made you decide to open
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a restaurant? So I had, I cooked all through
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high school and college and the guy cooked with back then, Chad,
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he's my business partner now. He's like my best friend, like
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25 years and I was competing and he's a chef and he, dude, he was
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just sick of the restaurant industry.
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He was working at a place that was like, Hey, why don't you
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like smoke all the ribs on Sunday and then microwaving
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through the week? Like they were just crushing his
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soul. And he's like, I'm gonna get
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out. I'm gonna drive a truck or
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something. And I was like, dude, why don't
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we just open a food truck? And he's, I don't know, man.
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And he's, that's fun, but I'm not real sure if we can afford
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it. I was like, I'll open it.
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Like I'll open the food truck and a day job.
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And I was like, I'll open the food truck, I'll run the
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business, I'll run the business, I'll book the jobs and you just
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run the food truck. And so I literally opened the
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food truck to keep him in the industry because he's the best
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chef I've ever seen in my life. And so we did that kind of just
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for him. And then in 2020, COVID was
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killing the food truck and I lost my job due to COVID.
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I never want to leave a good job to start a restaurant.
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And so it was like, I don't have a job.
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So I interviewed for jobs for a couple months.
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I'm just man, I just don't want to fucking do it.
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I just don't. So I was like, let's open a
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restaurant in the middle of a pandemic.
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I'm like, let's do it, man. So middle of 2020 we found a
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place, we signed a lease and open a restaurant.
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Here we are 4 1/2 years later. Wow.
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What's the number one thing that you're proud of on the menu and
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one that surprises people? Proud of man, I probably say
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burnt ends just because it's our number one seller every month
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and people come in all the time like best brands.
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I have my wife and I've traveled the whole country is the best
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brands I ever had. And most places, every place in
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Saint Louis, the burning suck. It's the only place we come from
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burnings, right? I personally like I like them.
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I don't think it's like the best thing on our menu, but like
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everybody goes crazy over. That's probably that's our
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biggest thing. And then my favorite thing on
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the menu. We have a pork cake.
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So my favorite thing to eat is crab cakes.
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I I love crab cakes. And so I told my partner I was
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like, I want to barbecue crab cake.
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And so he came up with his pork cake.
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We literally never even made one.
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Like he came up with what the recipe would be.
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We put it on the menu, everything like the day of our
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soft watch. I'm like, I think we should make
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one of these things, see if they're any good.
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And he's, I guess so it's so the day of our soft watch, we cooked
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one. I was like, Jesus, this is
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amazing. So we take pulled pork, cream
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cheese, cheddar cheese and chives, green onions.
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I guess if we make a Patty, we bread it in panko bread crumbs.
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We deep fry it and serve it with coleslaw and BBQ sauce on top
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and do it. It's my favorite thing on the
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menu. It's incredible.
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Wow, and how do you bring championship level flavor to the
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daily menu? Man, I just want to think we use
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our rubs. I got 2 rubs on the market.
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So we use our own rubs and we try to finish strong.
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There you go, get them out there.
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We try to like like our finish rubs for our ribs for example,
14:55
like when we cut our serve our ribs like we're going to hit the
14:57
back of them with a finish rub, we're going to hit the top one
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with a glaze and more finish rub.
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We're just trying to finish things in the restaurant similar
15:04
to how you would have the competition.
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Now we all know you can't cook for a restaurant the way you do
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in a competition that nobody would be able to afford the
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prices. My cooks and probably all quit,
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but just try to use high quality meat, cook it right and try to
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finish it at the end and it's as close.
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I think it's as close as you can get without being accomplished
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BBQ. OK.
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And are you a stickler for tradition or do you like pushing
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the BBQ boundaries? And do you ever give a shoot
15:30
about tradition? I just like to cook.
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I just cook good BBQ. I'm not going to beat my head
15:33
against the wall on a stick burger because I think that's
15:35
what is tradition. I don't care.
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I like drums. I like hot and fast.
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I just like good food. How did you decide to come up
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with your own roof? Because I call them racial
15:44
harmony in a black label, a white label.
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Hey man, we're just bringing them together.
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Honestly, man, we were, when I started the food truck, we were
15:53
like buying rubs and mixing rubs and trying to like just trying
15:57
to figure out what we wanted to do for the food truck and not
16:00
the cost was eating us alive. And me and my partner are like,
16:03
man, I think we can just, we just make a rub.
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It's not that hard. It's the same combination of
16:07
stuff no matter everyone's doing the same thing.
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It's all the same stuff and just different ratios.
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And so we made the rubs for the restaurant and I mean for the
16:13
food truck right now these are really good.
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And so we're making them up in big batches and they're
16:18
inconsistent and stuff. And so I was like, I'm going to
16:20
take it to a Co Packer and see if they can make it.
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And so we went to McCarthy in Saint Louis and started just
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getting the ribs or getting the rubs in 25 LB boxes.
16:29
And then I was like, I'm going to start, I'm going to start
16:31
playing with these things and I and that it's going into 2018 or
16:36
out of 2018. We had them manufacture
16:38
essentially in bulk and I started practicing with them
16:40
that winter and I was putting them on three of the categories
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I didn't get them on. I didn't get white label on
16:45
chicken until a little bit later because I was winning chicken
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like crazy. I don't want to mess with it,
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but I was using my rubs on the other three meats.
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And then literally the first time I use those rubs in a
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competition was the case CBS Invitational 2019.
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So the first time I use those rubs, we won a world
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championship. But on the way home, I called my
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partner. I'm like, man, we got to put
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these in a bottle and and we did.
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Wow. So how do you juggle the demands
17:09
of running a restaurant with competing at a high level?
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Terrible. I do it terribly.
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I'm awful, dude. It's it's a lot, man.
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And I'm not competing a lot right now.
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My my schedules real, real busy. I'm focusing a lot on my family
17:23
in the restaurant and things like that.
17:25
So now they're competing a lot. So people don't see me out
17:27
there. Probably would have me, Chris,
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but man, I just got some other stuff to focus on.
17:30
People don't realize it what it takes to make a team of the year
17:33
run. You're going to cook 4045
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contests, you're going to be gone a lot.
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It's very hard to do. It's kind of like last year I
17:38
was going to make a team of the year run.
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I started hot. I started in November.
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I was cooking Mississippi, I cooked California.
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I won a contest in Alabama, and I came out real hot in February.
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My GM said she was pregnant and she was due at the beginning of
17:51
August and she was taking two months.
17:53
So right then that that killed my team the year run and
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everybody's Oh no, you're chasing.
17:57
You're chasing. I was like, I'm not I'm just
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cooking a lot now because I can't Later she went, I'm like
18:01
get bed rest like middle of July and I disappeared off the face
18:04
of the earth and I think I cooked 2 conscious rests that
18:06
year and everyone's what are you doing?
18:07
Why aren't you chasing? I was like I told you 6 months
18:09
ago, I wasn't chasing. So like the rest of choice
18:11
restaurant 1st and family first. But if I can get out there, I'm
18:13
gonna cook as much as I can. That's definitely true because
18:15
that's why I haven't started because I bought I went and they
18:19
had a bundle for the gateway drum on Gateway website and I
18:23
bought it and I was like yeah, I'm going to get ready to
18:25
compete. They think wife pregnant and
18:28
right now the drum still sitting brand new in the corner over
18:31
there if. You want to sell it?
18:33
I'll buy it cheap. I'm.
18:35
Going to get some use out of it eventually.
18:39
Which one Hard lesson? Go ahead.
18:41
You got a legit baby man. It is hard and possible and I
18:44
would even tell you just don't do it from a guy that's competed
18:47
so hard for so long. My daughter's 11 and I've been
18:50
doing this for 13 years. Don't miss that time man.
18:53
They'll always be they'll always be contest and your daughter's
18:56
only going to be a year old once.
18:57
So I wouldn't even I wouldn't even try to go to a contest at
18:59
this point, man. If you take her and walk around
19:01
and meet some guys that's fine, but don't go try to get beat up
19:04
by 40 of your friends. Oh no, diapers and formally
19:07
expensive. I'm not playing right now.
19:10
One brisket, 1 brisket. Buy a lot of diapers.
19:13
Exactly, my wife ain't going to kill me.
19:17
So what's 1 hard lesson that you learned through the business
19:20
side of BBQ? And I learned a lot of lessons.
19:24
I come from business. I have a degree in accounting.
19:27
I've been in sales and management, whatever.
19:28
So it's like you think you understand, you start running a
19:31
restaurant, man, it's a whole different ball game.
19:33
And one hard lesson, I don't know, I would say get thin in
19:35
the winter time when it's slow and you hate, you hate taking
19:39
hours from people, you hate laying people off or get rid of
19:41
people. But, and if you can't get
19:44
through January and February, then no one has a job in March,
19:48
you know what I mean? So that's one thing I had to
19:50
learn is like this winter, I was working front of house multiple
19:53
shifts a week, working pits, like just trying to save labor
19:56
because it gets so slow in January and February.
19:58
Man, if you don't, like I said, if you don't get to March you,
20:00
you ain't moving forward. Yeah, that's definitely true.
20:04
And for everybody, don't know. I went to his class that's had
20:07
Mick, Chris and one of the best classes that I've been to and
20:13
appreciate that. Oh, definitely.
20:14
So if anybody that cooks on all drums, definitely go check his
20:18
class out because I've been to I went to Myron's, I went to
20:22
Robbie Rolls, I went to Joe Pierce, I went to Luke Darnell's
20:27
and then I went to yours. How I ran across yours is
20:30
somebody suggested you need to go to Chris Shaffer's class guy
20:34
named Chad Winnington. He cooks for hog addiction and
20:39
he had told me about your class. So when I saw it come out, I was
20:43
wondering if I hurry up. Got a spot in there based on
20:47
what he said. And definitely hands down one of
20:50
the best classes, one of the simple to to catch on to and
20:55
full of information, full of friendly people and stuff like
20:59
that. I want to appreciate, say, I
21:00
appreciate you for just holding the class and teaching us what
21:04
you know because you don't and you don't have to do that.
21:08
You're doing it because you want to help people, not as far as I
21:11
need a money grab. So I definitely appreciate that.
21:15
And that's why I keep my price low.
21:16
People raise prices over the years and I obviously it's great
21:19
money, you'd be lying if you said it wasn't.
21:22
But I don't want to price people out man.
21:23
I, I want the new guy in there. I want the backyard guy.
21:26
And if I go to 800,000 bucks, a lot of those guys aren't coming.
21:30
So I, I try to keep the price I've always done and I'll make
21:33
enough, if that makes sense. Also, I probably, I need you to
21:35
say that it is the best class you've ever had so that I can
21:38
send this to Joe and be like, hey, take that.
21:41
His class was the best class that I've been to.
21:46
I'm just going to, I'm just going to snip that and send it
21:47
to Joe and Luke probably. The thing about Joe Class Blue
21:53
Spring, Missouri is like country down.
21:58
Somebody had somebody had to drive 30 minutes in an Uber to
22:02
come get me to take me 3 minutes around the corner.
22:06
So I was like trapped out there. But maybe the class is good.
22:10
I'll tell you. This one too.
22:11
Joe's one of my best friends and BBQ man and he's a hell of a
22:14
cook. He's a hell of a cook and his
22:15
class is awesome too. Yeah, his class was good, but
22:19
his restaurant food was good. But the dog on prime rib where
22:22
the breakfast pizza. And everybody, everybody loves
22:28
that breakfast pizza, Man. I used to do kolaches.
22:30
And then one class, man, I tried right out of time or something.
22:33
I forgot to order kolaches. And I had my buddy Brian Tape
22:35
meet me and say hello to you. He helps in all my classes.
22:38
And he just won a world championship.
22:39
Anybody seen that? But yeah.
22:40
And I was like, man, you just pick up some Casey's breakfast
22:42
pizza for me. And everyone's too.
22:44
Where did you get this pizza from?
22:45
I was like, it was like 1/4 of the price over kolaches on my.
22:47
I guess we're running Casey's speech from now on.
22:50
Yeah, you see him, tell him I'm coming for him too, to be on the
22:52
show. So definitely.
22:54
I'll connect you guys. All right, we're inspiring you
22:56
to start teaching classes and how that journey evolved over
23:00
the years. Honestly man, it was just people
23:02
asking. In 2019 I did my first class.
23:04
So I won the KCS Invitational in 19 and I won Saint Louis team of
23:08
the year and I won 7 KCBS contest that year.
23:12
And I didn't feel like I was ready to have a class.
23:14
I didn't feel like I was good enough to have a class.
23:15
And Brad and Tim and these guys have a classes and they've won
23:19
everything. But I'm like, who's going to
23:20
come to my class? This is stupid, but I have
23:22
people asking. So Saint Louis guys like man,
23:24
just do a class. I just do one class and I was
23:27
going to cap it at 30 people. And I had, I had 30 people sign
23:32
up in 2 weeks and I cut it off and people are begging me to get
23:35
in. No, I'll stand in the back.
23:36
I'll stand in the back. I think I did 37 or 38 people
23:40
that class and I was like, man, I guess I could, I guess I could
23:43
do classes from from here going forward.
23:44
Then it made it easier. But what I did after that class,
23:47
it was too much. So now I capped my class to 25.
23:50
I like to keep a small class and I don't mind running a twenty
23:53
person class. So if it's if I'm at, if I'm at
23:55
20 people and I'm a few weeks out, I'll shut it down and I'll
23:58
keep it in. I'll keep it at 20 people like
24:00
it's better and I get to teach more.
24:02
I get to interact with people. I need to know people better.
24:04
It's just easier, man. The small class is easier.
24:06
Yeah, yeah. And when you think about your
24:08
role as a mentor, what is your do you hope that your students
24:12
take away from the class beyond just cooking techniques?
24:15
Man, I just want to be better. I'm going to be better than when
24:17
they came. Everybody's at different goals
24:19
and different skill levels when they take my class.
24:22
So a guy like you, you're just learning.
24:24
You've taken five classes, but you haven't taken, You haven't
24:26
taken. You haven't did it do it yet,
24:29
right? I want you to go to your first
24:31
contest and I want you to get a call, get 2 calls and I want you
24:34
to call me and be like, dude, I ran your rib recipe and I got
24:36
eighth. You know what I mean?
24:37
That's what I want. But there's guys out there that
24:39
are crushing BBQ. They come take my class and if
24:43
they leave with one thing, they're like, man, this one
24:45
thing is going to change this for me.
24:47
I'm good with that. Exactly.
24:49
And what's what's 1 moment from a class or a mentoring
24:52
experience that stuck with you? Maybe that you help somebody
24:55
take it to the next level? Man, I so this is such a cool
25:00
story. I talk too much you're going to
25:03
back up you shut up A buddy, a guy a guy named Jason Waters
25:06
with Q moon BBQ. He sent me, he signed up for my
25:09
class, sent me a message. We were talking, he's become
25:11
really good friend of mine, but he was cooking like kind of
25:14
local stuff, like non sanctioned stuff.
25:16
And he just wasn't cooking a he wasn't cooking a lot of big
25:18
comps, but he was just, he was cooking a decent amount and he
25:21
was telling me he'd never got a rib call, never got a rib call
25:23
in his life. He couldn't figure it out and
25:26
never won a contest, obviously whatever.
25:28
And so he, he texted me and he no, he sent me the like the
25:34
biggest text anybody's ever sent me And it was so emotional and
25:37
so nice. But he said that he had won ribs
25:39
at this contest. After taking my class, he won
25:42
ribs and GC the contest. So it was his first rib call I
25:45
believe, which is the 1st place Andy GC the contest.
25:48
And he was just so thankful, so appreciate for my class and my
25:51
friendship and mentorship, whatever.
25:53
And the crazy thing is, the day he sent me that text was the
25:56
same day that I'd won my Second World championship.
25:59
And I remember like walking around bragging the people that
26:01
he had won ribs and won that contest, not that I'd won a
26:04
world championship. Like I was more stoked for him
26:07
than I was for me. And then Fast forward a year, I
26:10
win the Jack. And then that following winter,
26:13
the Clinton County BBQ Society in Saint Louis.
26:16
And a good friend of mine, Buck Hockey, started that and they
26:18
wanted me to come and see their awards.
26:21
And so I got to go and see their awards.
26:23
And it was cool because while doing the awards, I got to tell
26:26
that story in front of the whole Clinton County, the whole award
26:29
ceremony, whatever. And I told that story to
26:32
announce that Jason Waters had won the Clinton County Team of
26:34
the Year. And it was, it was cool to tell
26:36
the story that like, this guy took my class, he won his first
26:39
contest, and now he's your team of the year.
26:41
And so it was really cool to see that guy grow.
26:43
And now he's out running around Saint Louis getting calls.
26:45
He just reserved a contest couple weeks ago.
26:47
And the kids killing it. I say kid, I think he's older
26:49
than I am, but he's killing it. Yeah, yeah.
26:52
So you coached him a lot of up and comers and like I said, how
26:57
and the Hog was one of the teams that the class with us and they
26:59
have a high respect for you just like I do because I took your
27:02
class. For those that don't know, he
27:05
sponsors High on the Hall, which is a brand new team.
27:08
Can you do give us an explanation of why you decided
27:12
to sponsor them? Yeah, so I'll back it up.
27:16
The 1st when I first started RUBS, I put like an application
27:18
out for sponsorship and I don't remember how many people applied
27:22
eighty, 9000, something like that.
27:24
I get tons of people that applied for it and I went, I
27:27
went through all their information and I picked teams
27:29
to sponsor on that. And it was like and a half the
27:32
teams I picked weren't even using my rubs and I didn't even
27:35
realize that it's like they they started using my rubs after I
27:38
sponsored them. And the next year I was like,
27:40
this is dumb. It's you're honestly dumb for me
27:42
to put this application out there.
27:44
It's so I decided I was just going to align with people that
27:48
I have the same values with and the same like type of people.
27:52
It's like some of my best friends and BBQ rooters and
27:54
tutors, They're like, I would say top five best cooks for the
27:58
country pretty much every year, you know what I mean?
28:00
And I called and I was like, hey, you guys use my rubs,
28:02
right? And they're like, yeah,
28:03
absolutely. I'm like going to be a sponsor
28:04
team. They're like, Yep, and I called
28:06
Chris Webb with Bushworth or Bushmaster.
28:08
Hey, use my stuff, right? Yep, you know, response team.
28:10
Yep, janky leg. There's just guys like that.
28:13
They're incredible cooks, but they're the same type of people
28:15
that I am, same values, good people, and they use my stuff.
28:19
And so when Sean and Rich with high on the Hog, they took my
28:23
class, they were using my stuff and they, they were just like
28:27
me. It was like I, it was like I was
28:29
talking to somebody that I've known my whole life, which is
28:31
funny. I can tell that story if you
28:32
want, But so I, I was like, you guys want me to sponsor you and
28:35
they're like, are you serious? And we haven't even cooked the
28:36
contest. I'm like, that's cool, man, Like
28:39
I, I got your back. I get you guys some rugs and
28:41
we'll, we'll go win together, which I told you before we
28:43
started. It turns out me and Sean were
28:44
talking, we same age. We went to rival high schools
28:47
and we played football on opposite sides of the ball and
28:50
we were. He was ADN and I was a tighter
28:52
the tackle and we were probably beating each other up 22 years
28:55
ago too, so it's got to come full circle.
28:57
Yeah, definitely. It's just hilarious.
29:00
But who were some of your mentors coming up in the BBQ
29:03
game and how they shaped your teaching style and cookie style?
29:08
My biggest mentor, and it's not even close, is Brad Leininger.
29:11
I took Brad and Tim's class in 2015 and then I went back and
29:16
took it again in 2018. The three-year difference of
29:18
taking that class was me as a cook.
29:20
Their class didn't change a lot, but the first time I went, it
29:23
was like, all right, I want to learn how to cook on drums
29:26
properly. And so I went and learned how to
29:27
cook hot and fast. When I went back, it was like,
29:29
all right, how do you finish a product, how tenor and things
29:32
like that. So it was like two different
29:34
classes for me because I was a better cook, if that makes
29:37
sense. Brad Tim, obviously a cold Hardy
29:39
got me started in the beginning. Ralph Monkey, he hasn't cooked a
29:42
lot anymore, but there's just some of these guys, man, that
29:44
got to Take Me Out of the wing. And I can't really get friends
29:47
with Joe Pierce. And so he helped me a lot.
29:49
I remember a conversation I had with him before the Jack.
29:51
I had a rough summer, man. I just, I couldn't win a comp to
29:54
save my life. And I remember Joe being like,
29:56
dude, you got to cook the obviously how to win.
29:58
He's just got to figure it out. He's if you're a little soft and
30:00
chicken, go a little further. If you're a little tight in the
30:02
ribs, go a little further or whatever.
30:04
He's just make a small adjustment somewhere.
30:06
And then the next week I won the Jack.
30:07
A lot of those guys, man, they've helped a lot, yeah.
30:10
That's good to hear because a lot of people will see people
30:13
fail and they can sit there and tell them something to help them
30:17
out, but they'll sit there and hold it to themselves and watch
30:20
somebody fail when they can help them.
30:22
If it all comes down to most of the recipes that people do are
30:26
the same. It just come down to knowing how
30:29
to cook it. So you still got to out cook the
30:31
person you can give them like I can, I got your recipe, but I
30:36
still got to out cook you and that's what it comes down to.
30:40
So it's the gatekeeping and holding the secrets and letting
30:44
watching people fail and that causes people to give up on
30:47
competing and less people compete and stuff like that
30:50
instead of the boosting the sport up and bringing more
30:54
people in it. It deters people because
30:57
eventually they're going to get frustrated and bow out and.
31:00
You have me doing classes man, I hate to say it but majority of
31:04
the people come for your recipes and I handle.
31:07
I have a packet out with all my recipes and my timelines and
31:10
everything, mostly so you can pay attention to the cook.
31:12
A lot of people don't do that, man.
31:13
You hand them that packet and they're out.
31:15
They'll lock, they'll pay attention, but they don't.
31:17
Once they have that packet, they don't care anymore.
31:19
And then at the very end, like the most important part of the
31:22
class, I'm going back and forth to pits, check a tenderness pull
31:25
and stuff. And if there's 25 people in the
31:27
class, I'll have 5, maybe 8 of them follow me to pits.
31:30
Every single time. The rest of them are inside
31:32
bullshit and drinking beer. And you're like, I man, like you
31:34
pay for it, you know, do this how you want.
31:36
But like I can always tell the people that are going to be a
31:38
problem. I remember my first class ever,
31:41
so there's 38 people in it and you always, I think I even told
31:44
you this in the class, like there's always one or two people
31:46
in a class and you're like, that guy's going to be a problem one
31:48
day. Like they ask all the right
31:50
questions, they're paying attention.
31:52
You could tell. I remember our very first class,
31:53
there's a guy, I didn't know him in the back of the class and
31:56
he's just literally the back of the class.
31:58
He just asked questions. I'm like, oh, this guy gets it,
32:00
You know what I mean? And now that, you know, ask
32:02
something else, I'm like, oh, OK, this guy's paying attention.
32:04
And that's Jordan Kirkpatrick. And you're like, he's one of the
32:07
best coach in the world right now.
32:08
But in 2019, you'd sit there taking my class, asking all the
32:11
right questions. Yeah, I met him later, Memphis
32:14
and Meg. But yeah, he's he's on point.
32:18
But yeah, that's how I am. I'm gonna sit back, watch.
32:21
I'm not going to waste that type of money just to be shooting the
32:23
breeze. So I'm going to be watching.
32:26
That's why I like that. You gave.
32:28
I was talking to Christian Vanover about that, but she said
32:31
if somebody will give you a recipe, regardless if it's on
32:34
the paper or not, they're going to give it away.
32:36
But The thing is, I'd rather have it on a piece of paper so I
32:39
can focus on what you're doing. Because if I'm writing something
32:42
down, I'm missing what you're doing at the moment, and that's
32:46
going to throw off the whole cooker and the purpose of me
32:48
coming out there. It's pretty much like taking the
32:51
chance, but I'd rather have the information on the paper so I
32:55
can focus on what you're doing versus I'm not going to give you
32:58
a paper. You have to write everything
33:00
down in your own words. But I can easily still just give
33:02
it to somebody. But I'd rather focus on what the
33:06
person's doing. So that's the purpose of me
33:09
coming out to the class. When I first started doing
33:12
classes, I had this mentality of when I went to college, the
33:15
instructor didn't hand me the notes.
33:16
Like I had to write my stuff. And then I don't know when I
33:19
started doing the packets, but it was like I'd be in a class.
33:22
So I'm like, hey, what's your finish row?
33:23
And I'm like, oh, it's white label and this.
33:26
And then two minutes later I'm like, hey, what was that
33:28
finished rub? My God, it's wide label on this.
33:30
That's wide label on this. By the 10th time, I'm like,
33:32
dude, it's wide label, You know what I mean?
33:35
And then, and I guarantee you heard in the class now people be
33:38
like, Hey, what was that finished rub?
33:39
And other students are like, it's in the packet.
33:41
And be like, hey, what was that sauce?
33:43
It's in the packet. Other students are like, it's in
33:44
the packet. Shut up.
33:45
It's so it made it so much easier.
33:47
And then like you said, you're not taking notes, man.
33:49
Every note you take is maybe how I'm trimming, how I'm injecting,
33:53
how I'm finishing, things like that.
33:55
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely true.
33:56
And then you got different types.
33:58
You got one person that's to know it all in the class that
34:01
try to talk over, talk to teacher.
34:03
You got other people shooting the breeze.
34:05
You got some people paying attention.
34:08
And it's just different types that every class you go in is
34:11
those certain people in within the class.
34:15
I'm like, why are you not teaching the class?
34:18
If you know everything, you're asking questions.
34:21
The difference is like, you know me, man, like I'm a super nice
34:24
guy, but I'm also an asshole. It's like when people are doing
34:26
that, I'll be like, hey, man, you want to teach this class?
34:28
Or Hey, I asked the guy one time I would do you only ask
34:31
questions that you know the answer to.
34:33
And he was like, what? I was like, man, every question,
34:34
like every question you asked, you then want to answer after I
34:37
answer it. And he's, oh, it was just like
34:39
everyone paid here to listen to me.
34:40
No one's here to listen to you. Exactly.
34:43
All right, I'm going to give you a question.
34:45
And if I gave you a All Star team of four people, including
34:51
yourself of a the cooker competition, what other three
34:56
people would you pick? It's not like a Mount Rushmore,
35:01
but it's more of each meet. Who would you have cooked, dead
35:06
or alive? Oh dude, am I picking what
35:09
category categories they're cooking or just the four guys?
35:12
Yeah, category. All right, I'll take chicken.
35:16
I'm going to give Brad a line of your ribs, and I'm going to give
35:19
Tim Sheer pork. And I'm going to give Travis
35:21
Clark brisket. Wow.
35:22
That was sweet. OK, OK.
35:28
Those three, dude, there's like Darren Worth was a great friend
35:31
of mine. He's the GOAT.
35:31
He's won a lot of big things. He's one of the best ever.
35:35
My, my thing is that the time I came up, if that makes sense,
35:39
like when I was really getting into it was after, after Darren.
35:43
And so I don't include him in things like that, even though
35:45
he's one of the best of all time, if that makes sense.
35:47
But when I started, it was like, Brad's here, Tim's here, Travis
35:52
is here. Those are the three that you're
35:53
like got to get around those guys, man.
35:56
And I think I don't know honestly, if I'm making that, if
35:59
I'm making that list, I don't know if I put me as one of the
36:00
four, you know? What I'm saying supervisor?
36:07
Yeah, man, honestly, if I'm making that list, I'd probably
36:10
sit out and put Tim Grant in there as the fourth guy.
36:12
Man, it's just and some of those guys just monsters.
36:15
Yeah, when I was talking to Tim Shear, I was like, you don't
36:19
know it, but you're pretty much like the Steph Curry of BBQ
36:23
because you changed the whole game with them drums and you
36:28
don't even know that. But.
36:31
Yeah, Tim has the ability to finish.
36:34
He's turned one 70s and 170 fives and 170 fives into one 80s
36:37
in the cutting board. And a lot of guys can't do that.
36:40
And it's just one of those skills that not a lot of guys
36:42
possess. His palate's insane.
36:43
He could finish like if I'm picking one guy, if you have a
36:46
gun to my head and they're like, hey, you pick a guy to win a
36:49
contest or we're going to shoot you, it's Brad.
36:52
Like it's always Brad. And if I pick one guy that it's
36:55
high, we're going to piss him off, put a chip on his shoulder
36:59
and see if he can win Team of the Year Brad or Travis when
37:02
Travis 15161718, when those years where he was wanting to
37:06
run, God, the guy was insane. And then do you know who Tim
37:10
Grant is? What's the team name?
37:14
True, bud. No, I haven't.
37:15
I haven't heard. Of dude go look up true bud in
37:18
2011, 2012, 2013. God that guy just kill it.
37:24
Kill it, man. Wow, it's a good team you put
37:28
together all right. I'm doing dishes.
37:32
I'm doing dishes on that team. But The thing is, if you can
37:37
quickly pan, take your camera and pan across the wall.
37:40
So everybody know how big that statement is that you?
37:45
If you want, you said I was Peacock in a little bit, but.
37:49
Yeah, go ahead now this is, the person said.
37:53
He'll be washing dishes. Ditch AX over there, but.
37:58
So what I did is I constructed a game, you know how to college
38:02
tournament, basketball tournament has a bracket.
38:05
So I constructed a bracket of 16 meats that you cook on the grill
38:09
and you just tell me which one you prefer to eat and we'll see
38:12
which one wins. First match up is lamb versus
38:16
brisket. Brisket.
38:17
Not a huge Lamb fan. All right, next match up, smoked
38:21
ham versus sausage. Sausage all.
38:25
Right smoked Turkey versus beef ribs.
38:28
Turkey. Well, BBQ shrimp versus
38:33
hamburger. Ah, that's tough.
38:36
I'm going to say hamburger, but I like shrimp.
38:38
OK, pork chops versus smoked chicken.
38:43
Yeah, we'll go pork chops. All right, smoked Bologna versus
38:51
pork ribs. Oh, baloney, Baloney's going to
38:54
win this thing. FYI.
38:55
Baloney. All right, next match up is hot
39:00
dog versus pork belly. Pork belly.
39:04
I like a hot dog there. My dad is a hot dog roller for
39:07
the trailer. Like literally my dad is a hot
39:09
dog roller that we just roll dogs while we're competing.
39:13
Oh yeah, shout out to your dad. Great guy.
39:16
Very. Underrated.
39:17
Everyone calls him Pops man. He's about the best guy to
39:19
barbecue. Definitely, definitely.
39:21
And he's very underrated. People don't know that he's in
39:25
there getting his hands dirty. So definitely shout out to him.
39:29
He. He worked so hard.
39:30
Did you even notice that while I was finishing boxes?
39:33
Like you go outside and everything was cleaned up, all
39:35
the pits strapped back to the trailer and nobody works harder
39:38
than my dad. Exactly.
39:40
So big shout out to him this matchup.
39:43
Steak versus burnt ends steak. All right, next round, brisket
39:48
versus sausage. Sausage.
39:52
All right. Turkey versus hamburger.
39:57
Turkey. I love smoked Turkey.
40:01
Pork chop versus baloney. Baloney.
40:05
All right, pork, you know where this is going.
40:08
Pork belly versus steak. Steak.
40:13
All right, Final four, sausage versus Turkey.
40:16
Sausage. OK.
40:19
And baloney versus steak. Baloney.
40:24
All right, and sausage versus Bologna and the winter.
40:27
Just put it in. Bologna.
40:30
Do I love smoked Bologna? I love it man.
40:33
Surprisingly, you're not the only one.
40:35
Harry Soup picked Bologna too. So.
40:37
I make good company, so we actually so we have a Corny
40:41
Meats out of Highland, IL A lot of people know those guys.
40:43
They make our sausage for the restaurant.
40:45
It's a jalapeno cheddar sausage and they took that same recipe
40:48
and made Bologna and do. The Bologna is incredible and
40:51
we've tried to run specials multiple times and nobody will
40:54
buy it. I don't know if it's like we're
40:55
too bougie in this area or something, but do that.
40:58
That's smoke baloney man. I guarantee I cook you 5 lbs but
41:00
you're going to have a hard time not just making yourself sick on
41:02
it. I look forward to trying.
41:05
All right, I got one more tournament.
41:08
This one is the 16th greatest athletes of all time.
41:11
I. Love it.
41:13
All right. First match up is Tom Brady
41:16
versus Lionel Messi. I don't like the guy.
41:20
Give me Brady. Where's your football team?
41:26
I'm a Cowboys fan. Broncos fan based on the colors
41:30
you see here. All right.
41:33
Next match up, Michael Jordan versus Dale Earnhardt.
41:36
Jordan. All right, Usain Bolt versus
41:40
Serena Williams. God, that's a tough one.
41:44
Give me Bolt, he's a monster man.
41:47
Exactly. Next matchup Michael Phelps
41:51
versus LeBron. Phelps all.
41:55
Right next matchup, Ken Griffey, junior versus Simone Biles.
42:03
Biles. All right, Tiger Woods.
42:07
If I give my opinion, I'll piss the people off on this.
42:10
Like you put Phelps against LeBron.
42:11
Lebron's not even the best in his sport, so how's he going to
42:14
beat Phelps? Yes, I agree.
42:18
Hey, you could do you could do a Sweet 16 of basketball players
42:20
and I don't think LeBron makes it that far.
42:22
Exactly. In my personal opinion, I would
42:25
take Larry Bird with LeBron James.
42:27
It is what it is. You can say with you, that's
42:30
just me. I think the funnest guy to
42:33
watch. Jordan is a monster.
42:35
But dude, I love watching Kobe play basketball and I love Shaq,
42:39
you know what I mean? Just a dominating force, man.
42:41
There's I feel like there was nobody like Shaq and there will
42:43
never be anybody like Shaq. No, that is true.
42:46
That is true. I love Shaq and.
42:49
And he's hilarious. Think he's smarter than
42:51
everybody in the room pronouncing words wrong?
42:57
That's hilarious. I want probably like a couple
43:00
times a year I'll go look up that video where he's talking
43:02
about commentators not knowing anything about basketball,
43:05
whatever. And he says he goes.
43:06
I'm not going to say any names. Many pauses, he goes, Skip
43:09
Bayless. I laugh every time.
43:15
Exactly. They get you the smartest person
43:17
in the room. I did.
43:18
Skip Bayless is on another level.
43:22
All right, we've got Tiger Woods versus Kobe Bryant.
43:26
You've got to go, Tiger, but I love Kobe.
43:30
Cristiano Ronaldo versus Wayne Gretzky.
43:34
Gretzky. All right.
43:37
Roger Federer. Muhammad Ali.
43:44
Man, that's tough. Give me Federer.
43:47
OK. Next round, Brady versus Jordan.
43:51
Jordan. That was already right.
43:54
Usain Bolt versus Michael Phelps.
43:57
Phelps. Simone Biles versus Tiger Woods,
44:03
Tiger Wayne Gretzky, Roger Federer.
44:08
Gretzky. All right, Final Four, Jordan
44:12
versus Phelps. Jordan.
44:15
And Tiger versus Gretzky. Dude, that's tough.
44:20
That could be the final Give me Gretzky.
44:23
Oh wow. Dude, there's nobody like risky
44:26
man. Yeah.
44:28
Yeah, it's. A great one.
44:29
Nobody like Tiger, nobody like Tiger, but there's nobody like
44:31
Risky. All right, in the finals, we've
44:33
got Jordan versus Gretzky. Jordan.
44:38
Of course, the correct answer. All right, Mr. Shaffer, your
44:43
therapy session is over. You got anything to promote or
44:46
give me any shout outs or? I really man, I don't carry a
44:49
lot of sponsors. I just promote my friends.
44:51
Cordy Meat Processing at Highland, IL.
44:53
They ship meat all over the country.
44:54
Really good guys that take care of me.
44:56
Big Papa smoker, Sterling Ball, but a mentor to me.
44:59
Great guy. Blues Hog.
45:01
Blues Hog has been pivotal. And then Brad Linger was getting
45:04
based at his show Sauce he came out with last year.
45:06
Man like that is dude. I just went to KCS Invitational.
45:10
I ran show Sauce on ribs for the first time and won first place
45:14
ribs in the Invitational. So a real world champion with
45:17
show sauce and white label combination and man this good
45:20
stuff. Yeah, definitely.
45:22
I want to try to get brave. I know he's rolling this year,
45:25
he realized with ten wins already.
45:28
He's on a mission, man. What's?
45:30
Funny this he's on a mission, but he's at Disney right now.
45:33
So like he's on a mission, but he literally recorded BBQ bra.
45:37
He's been to France, he's been to Mexico, like he's in Disney.
45:41
So like he's rolling, but do that guy.
45:43
He's just busy life. Yeah, so I'm not going to bother
45:47
him until further on in the year when it gets slow.
45:51
But yeah, I really got the Cordy too.
45:55
Yeah, did they were get they get back to you.
45:56
They said he going to get with the his people and get back with
46:00
me because I met him at Memphis and May because I want all
46:03
aspects of barbecue and that's a very important part of BBQ so I
46:07
definitely want to get them on also.
46:10
Yeah, you should get some reps on too.
46:11
So like some KCBS reps or something?
46:13
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to reach out to the different
46:15
associations also and get let them speak and tell us more
46:21
about it because it's a lot of people don't know.
46:23
You'd be surprised that a lot of people don't know competitions
46:25
even exist. And no, you have to sit there
46:28
and explain where the BBQ comes, what's that on your shirt?
46:31
That's my competition name and all this stuff.
46:34
And competition, you have to get out there and explain what a
46:38
competition is as well. It's also dumb.
46:42
It's like the hardest thing to explain.
46:43
You're like, yeah, it's just a bunch of 40 to 50 year old fat
46:46
guys in a parking lot burning meat for strangers.
46:49
And they're like, that sounds awful.
46:50
You're like, yeah, and you're definitely going to lose money.
46:52
Like even the guy that wins the contest probably going to lose
46:54
money. And they're like, why do you do
46:55
it? You're like, I don't know.
46:57
Exactly. And we're paying to feed people
47:00
to judge us. A lot of times I'm not a, I'm
47:06
not a guy that bashes judges, but a lot of times you spend a
47:09
ton of money to turn it in and those judges are like leaving
47:11
you comment cards that just have you scratched your head and
47:13
you're like, why are we doing this?
47:14
But we're back every weekend. What's the wildest comment you
47:17
had on the comment card? Yeah, I got so many of them.
47:20
And I had a this early on, I got a brisket comment card that said
47:23
taste like bullion cubes. I was like, I was like, I didn't
47:27
know bullion cubes existed anywhere in my mom's pantry.
47:30
I thought they were like expired and my mom just still had them
47:33
or something. And then the problem is people
47:35
get mad at comment cards. But I can die.
47:37
I can dissect it, figure out what that means.
47:39
That guy said he meant it was salty.
47:41
Yeah, it was dumb. He wrote bullion cubes, but it
47:43
means it was salty. And I got one time on ribs, it
47:46
literally said, it said like perfect tenderness, perfect
47:49
bite, perfect smoke, perfect flavor.
47:51
And they gave me a 989. I'm like, dude, you used the
47:54
word perfect four times and then didn't give me a perfect score.
47:58
And then I got a perfect score in chicken one time and a
48:00
comment card that said pretty good.
48:02
I was like, OK, cool, pretty good, perfect.
48:05
All right, I'll take it. I'm not gonna lie, some of the
48:07
judges, they, this is just my personal opinion.
48:11
Some of them think they're like, I don't know, it's like it's
48:16
some things that you know it's going to score, but some things
48:20
are just kind of personal opinion and taste.
48:24
But they're acting like the whole power and control over
48:28
somebody that is like you're a master judge because you got
48:33
more free time than a lot of other people to go judge these
48:37
things, not because you're the expert, have the expert taste
48:41
buds and stuff like that. Because if you.
48:45
Honestly, man, the worst judges in the world are cooks.
48:48
Like they think their food's the best and they are going to judge
48:51
like crazy. I was in a contest a few years
48:53
ago where the organizer, I don't know what happened, he just
48:56
didn't get any judges. And so they had the backyard
48:59
teams cooked. They cooked like the day before.
49:02
They asked the backyard teams to stay and judge the pro.
49:04
And it was hands down the lowest scores I've ever seen in my
49:07
life. I think like AI think like a 672
49:09
won that contest because those backyard guys like my food's
49:12
both and they just hammered everybody.
49:15
Wow, that doesn't make sense because.
49:20
What I want to do, I've said for years, I think it would be
49:23
awesome if you could do like our turn, like our between turn
49:26
insurance and get like 12 teams, let's say.
49:30
And then we all cook turn in chicken.
49:33
And then we go through the back door and we sit down at the
49:36
tables and they mix up the boxes, whatever.
49:39
And then we all literally judge our own food.
49:42
And so us, us 12 cooks judge our chicken and then we go back out,
49:47
we do our rib box and turn it. We do it for all four or maybe
49:50
you do 2014. So you have 4 tables to make
49:52
sure that you're not always you're not getting your food
49:54
multiple times. But did I think it'd be awesome
49:56
to like literally the guys on the parking lot that are cooking
49:58
come in and judge and see how the scores shake out?
50:01
Not. A bad idea.
50:03
Y'all be fooled by the time y'all leave but.
50:07
I I would get dead last and be like I gave myself A7 so pissed.
50:14
Well, definitely, definitely thank you for coming on and I
50:16
appreciate it. Like I said, your class was the
50:19
best one that I've been to. So I definitely appreciate what
50:23
you taught me and I'm definitely going to use it out there.
50:26
All the way down to 1 little simple thing is sharp knives.
50:31
It's just most people don't think that's important, but and
50:35
you gave that important note that sticks with me right now.
50:40
And it is you're the only person that that that said that in the
50:45
classes I've been to. So I definitely appreciate all
50:48
that you taught me. And if you taught everybody else
50:50
and what you doing for the sport, because judgment at the
50:53
back of the wall, you can see that you're a winner and you've
50:55
proven what you do has results. So there's no questioning it.
51:01
Even if you just ran your recipe straight, you'll be fine.
51:04
So it's just come down to people swallowing your pride and just
51:07
following the process without doing the strength.
51:10
That's like the best advice you can give anybody with the knives
51:13
is just control what you can control.
51:15
Like you, you can't control what table you go to, you can't
51:18
control what judges get your food.
51:19
You can't control any of that. You can have sharp knives, you
51:23
can make sure your boxes are pretty, make sure your drums are
51:26
clean, and just control the things you can control.
51:28
And then once it's out of your control, you hope you get lucky,
51:30
because there's a lot of luck in what we do.
51:32
Yeah, and for those that don't know, let them know how?
51:36
What the name of your knives and how much they cost, just to show
51:41
how important they are. Yeah, I use I use rust off the
51:44
rust off classics and they're all they're not crazy.
51:47
They're all probably 200 bucks a knife.
51:48
But between my I probably got $1500 and knives between like my
51:52
slices, my trimming knives. Yeah.
51:54
So definitely that's important aspect of it.
51:58
They just think it's just cutting but it saves time than
52:01
having to RIP to meet the shreds with old dull knives.
52:04
I've had buddies of mine like, hey, can you show me how you
52:07
trim pork? And I'm like, yeah, And I'll
52:08
pick up their knife and be like, I'm going to my knives.
52:10
And they're like, what do you mean?
52:11
I'm like, I can't trim pork with your knives.
52:12
Maybe you're better at this than I am.
52:14
I don't know. But I don't have the ability to
52:15
do what I do with your knife. Yeah.
52:18
So I say I definitely appreciate it and I had encourage anybody
52:23
once they see that you're advertising for a class,
52:25
definitely go up there and check it out.
52:27
It's a great atmosphere, It's friendly.
52:30
I got to tell people most of the class I go to, I'd be the only
52:34
black guy there, but it's I can't tell the difference
52:37
because it's so friendly. The atmosphere is welcoming and
52:40
I just wanted a group when the BBQ, there's no, there's no
52:44
races, there's no man female. All this stuff is just community
52:50
and I just love that and I'm an ambassador for the BBQ community
52:54
and I'll promote it all the time because it nothing matches the
53:00
people I meet in the BBQ community like you and all the
53:04
rest of them. Tim didn't have to.
53:06
What did Tim have the game to come on my podcast?
53:09
Nothing, but he was nice enough to asked me to come on the
53:13
podcast. I'm still looking at him like he
53:14
crazy. You ain't got to ask.
53:16
You're welcome to come on. So I'm like, you didn't waste no
53:20
time responding to the e-mail. You didn't have to.
53:22
You're not gaining anything from this.
53:24
But y'all are nice enough to come help others, give advice,
53:29
tell where y'all started to where y'all at now.
53:32
Just to show people that OK, you don't wake up and, and be heavy
53:35
smoke and be successful and barbecue and restaurant business
53:39
that it takes time to get there and you just have patience.
53:42
And I'm just trying to give them a place to go listen to people
53:46
with different stories and also their products sell people
53:51
products. A lot of these are not in
53:53
stores, but I want to promote these so they can go look for
53:57
them and stuff like that because a lot of stuff in the stores is
54:01
not the same. Y'all built these specifically
54:03
for grilling and the stuff in the store is made mass produced
54:10
so I want something for brisket and stuff I know to go to this
54:16
and I'm telling everybody else to go for the black label, the
54:19
white label, the sweet and savouries and all that.
54:23
So it's just getting the word out there that y'all exist and
54:29
this y'all make products specifically for certain items
54:33
and they're versatile to go on different stuff.
54:36
Because my wife, she now I got her digging through my rubs and
54:40
seasonings trying to layer it on.
54:42
So I guess. People don't realize, man, like
54:47
every single team, I always say the first place team used Blues
54:50
Hog and so did the last place team.
54:51
Like everyone's using Blue Song, right?
54:54
And so you can go to a contest with a bottle of Blues Hog, a
54:56
bottle of White Label, a bottle of Black Label.
54:58
You can win that contest. Just cook it right, finish it.
55:01
It's easy. Exactly, like I said, I
55:02
definitely appreciate you and take your time to come out on
55:06
the show this morning and I wish you the best of luck.
55:09
And anytime you want to come on, shoot the breeze or anything,
55:13
I'm going to definitely try to take the class again just now
55:16
since I took the class, I can come up there and just shoot the
55:19
breeze like some of the other people.
55:20
So I definitely look forward to see you out on the trail and
55:23
then out and just regular life. So I definitely appreciate you.
55:28
I appreciate it, man. I appreciate you having me on
55:30
and I'll extend the same offer. Anytime you want to come to a
55:32
comp and hang out with me and watch what I do with a comp man,
55:35
just let me know. OK, I'll definitely take you up
55:37
on that offer. And on that note, everybody,
55:39
we'll see you next episode. Thank you for joining us on
55:44
another episode of the BBQ Therapy Podcast.
55:47
My name is Tavis Bryant. Please tune in to YouTube,
55:51
Apple, Spotify, Amazon in any streaming platform near you.
55:56
Please pay the secretary on your way out and we'll see you next
55:59
episode.