Latest / The Christy-Faith Show / Ep. 135 - What Every Homeschool Dad Needs to Know // Dr. Joe O’Tool

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Ep. 135 - What Every Homeschool Dad Needs to Know // Dr. Joe O’Tool · The Christy-Faith Show

• 0:00
  Joe O'Tool: The father helps lead the homeschooling, doesn't necessarily do it. And the best leaders are the ones that aren't the micromanagers. They are the ones that do everything that is needed to support the person doing the work.
• 0:25
  Christy-Faith: Welcome to the show, everybody. I have an amazing guest today Coming back, he has been on the show already. He has also taught a masterclass in Thrive Homeschool Community. He is a homeschool dad, a speaker, a certified functional neurologist who practices in Iowa. Right?
• 0:44
  Yep. Yep. Iowa. Scott and I have gotten to know doctor O'Toole and his family through our national leadership connections in the alliance. He is on the board of Homeschool Iowa.
• 0:56
  I am on the board of Nevada Homeschool Association even though I live in Colorado. I know, but don't be confused. Just accept it. Today's show is something that's been on my heart for a while, and that is we're gonna talk about dads today. Dads and their role in homeschooling and how they can encourage their wives and their kids.
• 1:18
  We're also gonna talk to the dad who maybe he's kind of agreed to this and isn't quite sure. He feels a little bit in the dark and and is just kinda watching this train go and not quite sure what to do with it. So we're gonna be talking to who is usually not talked to in our space very often, and that is homeschooling dads. And we have invited doctor Joe O'Toole to join us today because he is the... He's such a great dad.
• 1:46
  He was homeschooled himself, so he is a homeschool graduate. And I highly respect doctor O'Toole. So I wanna start the show today. Do do we call you doctor Joe?
• 1:58
  Joe O'Tool: What do want? Totally. Yeah. Because, yep, I've got a couple other brothers who are doctors. And so
• 2:03
  Christy-Faith: Okay.
• 2:03
  Joe O'Tool: It gets confusing saying doctor O'Toole or or just Joe. My mom my mom and dad kinda forget my name anyway. So Okay. So whatever. I go by whatever.
• 2:11
  Christy-Faith: Okay. We'll go with doctor Joe. And rather than kinda go into your whole bio and background, I think it's best if you just take a quick moment to share about yourself, your background, how you spend your days, and who you are.
• 2:26
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. I I love being able to talk really about anything. The two two big things that I really love to talk about are the brain specifically, and then homeschooling. I love homeschooling.
• 2:40
  And for multiple reasons, partly from the brain side of things, partly from my own experience. And a lot of times when I talk, it's more from an academic side of things, more on the brain and the science and more based on research and things outside of my own personal experience per se. But today, I'm really excited because this is almost more of just kind of a personal, this is the life I lived and able to share really the blessing that I've received because of my parents and the sacrifices that they made, especially early on in the years of homeschooling. My dad actually... So just a little bit about myself.
• 3:19
  I come from a family with nine kids, eight boys, one girl. My mom was a nurse by training. My dad was actually a licensed special ed teacher. So the background is they started homeschooling before it was even legal here in Iowa. But because of the way that the laws were written, it had to be under the supervision of a licensed teacher.
• 3:38
  So my dad actually was the licensed teacher for us in the homeschooling realm. I'll unpack that a little bit because even though he was the licensed instructor that we fell under from a legal standpoint, he really wasn't involved in the teaching side of things very much, from from the academic side. Now he was involved in a lot of other things, but the actual academics, he really wasn't, even though he was the licensed teacher. That primarily fell to my mom, which is the way that most homeschooling, not every homeschooling, but most homeschooling families, mom is the primary teacher. And so that's really my life experience growing up was my dad was the the legal teacher, but he was not necessarily the teacher in the classroom per se.
• 4:28
  Christy-Faith: So Well, now this begs the question, they started homeschooling when it wasn't entirely legal. Right? I mean, you found a legal way. So what... Why did they decide to homeschool you guys?
• 4:40
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. I'm I'm still learning some of that. It's it's one of those things that as you age, you start have con... Having conversations with your parents, and there's things that you learn that you don't know when you're younger, and you just kind of take it for granted. And Yeah.
• 4:55
  And a lot of the blessings that you have when you're younger because of the sacrifices your parents made, you don't actually learn until you're a parent yourself and you start having these conversations. Yes. And you think they had their life together a lot more than you do at this stage of life. And and so so so, really, a lot of it was... Actually came down...
• 5:16
  My mom, when my oldest brother was ready to start kindergarten, she just had this thought of, I like my children, and why would I send them away when I'm just getting to the point where they're actually really more fun to be around? Now, obviously, they're kids and they'll butt heads and all that stuff. Right? But but, like, she she really just had this thought of, why would I send them away when I want to be with them? And what if I could do this without sending them away?
• 5:45
  And so that's really kind of the first inkling that it started with. And then it kept growing into other reasons why. But, ultimately, it came down to these are my children, and I love them, and I wanna be with them.
• 5:59
  Christy-Faith: And she listened to her gut because you hear... You know, all over social media, every fall, our mom's crying because they've dropped their kindergartner off, and it's their heart knows. Right? And... But that's really cool that your mom had the bravery to do that.
• 6:16
  And, you know, the society is gonna call that sheltering or coddling or whatever. I like the term healthy attachment because because they're little kids, and they need their mama.
• 6:28
  Joe O'Tool: It's the natural way life is supposed to be. We're... Our family is supposed to be, our closest, tightest community. And and we've allowed the norms of society to drive that away. Even within families that that truly value the nuclear family, It's just the natural influence of society has has impacted that belief system.
• 6:54
  Christy-Faith: Yes. I I agree so much with that. And when you look just throughout time and throughout history and how we're wired, we are wired for that connection. Children... We have seventy years of research in child psychology and development saying that kids need a primary caregiver that loves them unconditionally.
• 7:11
  And and then what do we do is we... Right when they turn five, we send them off to strangers to spend the majority of their days. It... It's kinda crazy when you think about it. But also, you know, that famous saying, like, when everyone's running towards the cliff, it's the person running in the other direction that's called crazy.
• 7:27
  I still think we're there a little bit with homeschooling, but it truly... I agree with you so much. It is the natural order of things, and it's not something to feel not qualified for because we are the most qualified, you know, to do it. So And
• 7:42
  Joe O'Tool: and it's... And the the interesting thing is that's not just with kids, though. Now as a second generation homeschooler, I'm seeing a lot of the value of that. So in my clinical practice, I practice with my brother. This is kind of the cliche in homeschooling, but my brother is my best friend.
• 7:58
  Right? And it's
• 7:59
  Christy-Faith: like when
• 8:01
  Joe O'Tool: when you're in the the school years, that might seem kind of unnatural, maybe. But, like, now I'm in my forties, and truly, I can say my brother is my best friend. And and we work together, and we've had we've had our brother fights and all that stuff, and we've had to work through it all. But we do that. Just as last night, one of my other brothers, two of his boys stayed with us.
• 8:25
  My brother that lives in South Africa, his his their boys extended their stay for about five weeks to help us with a remodel project. Our three oldest daughters went and stayed with another brother. And so so we have this community now where where it's and if I ever need anything, I know there's others that will unconditionally drop everything to come to meet my needs. And that's rare in our society to have that kind of community. And and that's just within my immediate family, and that doesn't include relationships that I've started.
• 8:56
  And I have so much peace now because I know there's somebody there. Yeah. And a lot of that came from our homeschooling that that we spent time together. And unless you spend time together, you won't actually develop those relationships.
• 9:11
  Christy-Faith: Yes. I know. Right? That whole quality time versus quantity time, they found that it actually is quantity. It's not, you know, oh, you take your kid to ice cream once for fifteen minutes per week.
• 9:21
  That's not gonna build the relationship. Yeah. So let me ask you because this is an episode that moms might listen to and send to their husbands or maybe they listen together. I wanna talk about the dad's role in homeschooling, particularly if he is not the primary teacher of the home. And as you said earlier, there is that we have dads in Thrive Homeschool Community, but this show is not particularly for if the dad is the primary, homeschooler in the home because statistically, it still is the majority of of women.
• 9:53
  It's women and mothers doing the the teaching in the homeschool, and dad's doing a lot of the support. So first, what I wanna talk about is let's backtrack, and I would like to hear... You did mention briefly that your dad was kind of the legal teacher. Was he involved at all in the day to day, or did he really just leave that to your mom?
• 10:13
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. That really was just just left to my mom. She was she was, by all intents and purposes, our teacher. I would say he was the principal or the school administrator. Okay.
• 10:23
  Yeah. If if you will. But, like, when when there were things that needed to be dealt with, mom would bring them to dad. And I know in the background, he was involved, but he was not involved in any of the day to day. Yeah.
• 10:36
  He actually... He worked three different jobs. He worked full time, in a facility with mentally handicapped adults as an administrator. He worked in a factory kind of part time, making quilting machines. He had several different part time jobs.
• 10:50
  Just, again, the sacrifice to be able to homeschool nine children, he took a lot of that burden. So he didn't really even have the ability to be heavily involved.
• 11:00
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. Oh, interesting. Wow. Your parents did make a lot of sacrifices. So I would think that your homeschooling life right now today looks a lot different than your own upbringing.
• 11:10
  What does the rhythm look like in your house with Angie?
• 11:13
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. So this is this is one of the things that I talk a lot about with homeschooling families is there is no one size fits all. A lot of times you have your picture perfect social media. I follow this person or I follow that person and they have their method or they have and there... There's the...
• 11:32
  All the different methods of homeschooling, and a lot of parents try to recreate formal schooling at home, and I would highly encourage away from that. I would say ours is more of a chaotic setting in a lot of ways. Our rhythm, it varies every year, partly based on the child, partly based on our family needs. This year has been a little bit of a crazy year where kind of out of the blue, we were able to purchase a house and it needed a lot of work. We had to gut it.
• 12:04
  And grandpa's a retired contractor, so he's doing the contracting. The kids are jumping in with a lot of the demo work and learning from him. And so we're getting a lot of hands on experience. And so this year, we're like, okay. We're actually gonna delay starting a little bit, and and and they're gonna be involved in that, and that's okay.
• 12:23
  And so so there's... The rhythm is so flexible. It doesn't have to fit a certain rhythm. It's more what helps provide stability within the family. And how do you integrate education within the family setting, not just here's our academics, and so we orient our entire life around the academics.
• 12:46
  And so so really, it's it's a very different rhythm every year. So this year, we're kinda starting with math, and and we're probably gonna do three to four weeks of only math, and they're doing a lot of demo work on the house. And then we'll introduce some other things, some... They'll do some self guided reading, history, some things like that upfront. And and so it kinda depends on on the year, the child, kind of whatever it takes.
• 13:13
  It's it's just for us, it it it is a lot more chaotic. It revolves around our life needs and we want to see that because when it comes to learning, we want learning to be lifelong. We want our children to be curious for the rest of their life. And so so we don't want them to think of learning as fitting into a certain box over here. And then I have my family box over here, and then dad has his work box over here, we have our church box over there, and sports.
• 13:43
  It just kind of all flows together. We want that to be not just for the next ten years, but we want that to be for the next fifty years. And so that's where their learning and their curiosity can be driven. And we're more concerned that they learn how to learn and to follow their curiosity instead of what they're learning. And so that's really what drives our rhythms in a lot of ways.
• 14:07
  And I'd... We... I'd have to say we don't have a specific answer to what is our rhythm.
• 14:13
  Christy-Faith: Yes. You know, I have found that to be the case for our homeschool too. Often, I think when families start homeschooling, maybe they have little kids and and they have their times per day, and I teach the older one to read while the little one's napping. And we often think that this is what it's gonna look like forever. Right?
• 14:30
  Like, have to find my curriculum now when they're six, and that's the one we're gonna use all the way through twelfth grade. And I gotta tell you that is not... That is... And actually, I think it's the flex of homeschooling that it is not that. That we can be in tune with our kids, what they need, what our family needs, and work with that.
• 14:51
  I tend to have seasons. My fall looks a lot different than my winter. My winter looks a lot different than my spring because, right, because when you have kids who are in spring sports, that changes everything. And and so I find that too. Now I gotta ask you this because a dad listening who maybe is in their first year of homeschooling hearing that right now during your home project, the kids are doing a little bit of math, and then they're helping with that.
• 15:15
  He's freaking out. He's freaking out hearing that thinking that you're you're educationally neglecting your kids. And so let's... I want you to speak to that for a hot minute because, what I hear you saying is what I believe too. It's what I wrote about in homeschool rising.
• 15:33
  I have an entire chapter on deschooling that you don't believe an education is content only. You don't believe that. Right, Joe?
• 15:43
  Joe O'Tool: Yes.
• 15:44
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 15:44
  Joe O'Tool: Correct. So So
• 15:45
  Christy-Faith: Speak to the scared dad.
• 15:47
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. So I will speak fairly bluntly with this. Okay. Simply simply, that's just a a... I I can understand it's a concern, but it's an illegitimate concern.
• 16:01
  I'll I'll just say that. Just bluntly, it it is it is not an issue that I believe needs to be a concern or worried about in any way. And I I can speak to this specifically because of my life experience and a whole lot of background in in education and research and understanding the brain. So, again, my education background is is that my my mom actually were somewhat similar to my mom, not my wife. My wife is homeschooled growing up.
• 16:33
  They were a lot more rigid and structured. We've adopted a lot more similar to my mom. We... There were... I don't believe any of my siblings actually did any education junior or senior year.
• 16:49
  I was done with pretty much all of my education by my eighth grade year. The highest level I achieved before college in mathematics was pre algebra. I took zero science courses before college. I took zero history courses. Yeah, that's...
• 17:13
  Almost all my siblings were that way. And now there's three of us that are doctors. Two of us have our post doctorate board certification in neurology, which is three year... Three and a half years of post doctorate training and then board exam, and then another two years of concussion and pediatric development fellowship training. So so that...
• 17:37
  That's where it's... We... We've we've achieved a very high level of academics. Two two of my brothers are pastors. One is a missionary.
• 17:46
  I have cousins who had very similar education backgrounds with homeschooling. Several of them had full ride scholarships. One is a nuclear engineer. And and again, they didn't do anything really in high school. And so so that's where I can be fairly blunt and say, I understand why you might think that based on societal pressure.
• 18:08
  But based on enough data, I can say that's not an issue. I think the fear of that is that they won't be able to handle the academic rigor. And otherwise, I'm not sure what the fear point would be with that. And so if it really is... If you can handle the academic rigor, I I can say I've seen a lot of people be able to handle that and not have any struggle.
• 18:36
  Christy-Faith: Right. Well... And I think also parents fear that doors might close. If they don't do high school coursework, then they can't get into college, you know, that type of a thing. How did you manage that?
• 18:48
  What did your high school look like then?
• 18:51
  Joe O'Tool: A lot of work. I did I I... So I started working manufacturing. Our our neighbor was an agronomist, and I did soil testing with our neighbor in his laboratory. Then when it came to writing transcripts and stuff, one of my senior classes ended up being writing my own transcripts with my mom.
• 19:10
  And some of it was, okay, this is the experience that I had. So I didn't take a science course, but I learned science by doing soil and inoculation of plants and things like that. So I learned, but I didn't take a course. It wasn't academic learning. And there's a lot of research that I'm not going to get into on that.
• 19:33
  Can read Christy's book. Right? She'll talk about that some. Right? Yeah.
• 19:39
  But so that's kind of what my high school education was, was I started working... As a junior, I started working in a group home with handicapped adults full time. And I was working probably fifty hours a week starting my junior year and just gaining life experience. And I was able to save up money. Then my academic, especially initially my academic career was a little bit nontraditional.
• 20:08
  So I went to community college first. Fairly easy to get accepted into a community college. But I was able to get a lot of my core courses out of the way. And then through that, then I was able to get into a couple different universities. I did some Liberty University online training just to get my prerequisites for my chiropractic degree.
• 20:33
  And then I was able to get into chiropractic school without any issues. I spent a year in China with my wife studying abroad, studying Chinese language. So very nontraditional, kind of weaving in and out of a lot of different things. But then getting into the post doctorate training in neurology, again, it's just constantly building on. So by the time I got to the levels where things were needed, they already had enough academic proof to see, okay, It'll work.
• 21:02
  So so so it's maybe a traditional approach through through high school and college. But the thing the thing that I appreciate now about that and and that I see playing out in other homeschool families that kinda do that non traditional route is you're doing it in a different way. And and a lot of people want a different result, but they do things in the same way that others are doing it. And and I found Yes. By just completely breaking the mold and saying, okay.
• 21:33
  We're gonna go this route, and it's gonna be nontraditional. It's actually brought about more creative thinking and creative solutions now ultimately when I'm in the workforce.
• 21:43
  Christy-Faith: Well, you know, I mean, the experts, especially like Peter Gray, some of these unschooling guys. And although I I disagree with a lot of what they have, there is some research that's really solid on this, and that's just where does intrinsic motivation come from? Where does curiosity come from? Love of learning. Well, it's agency.
• 22:00
  They've realized it's agency, and a lot of it is is baked in play. Curiosity is play. So, I think that's really fascinating. So whether your parents knew they were doing this or not, they were giving you the skills to be able to learn anything that you wanted to learn. And it sounds like they also gave you the freedom to figure out your life.
• 22:20
  You know, sometimes I feel so bad for 17, 18 year old kids that feel this pressure to decide what they're gonna do the rest of their lives, and they're a kid. And it feels very unfair Yeah. To to a lot of kids. But, yeah, you're... That is really unique, doctor Joe.
• 22:37
  Your upbringing, I would say that that was especially for the time in which you were homeschooled Yes. That I would say that most people were doing box curriculum, sitting their kid down and and replicating the school system at home. So, wow, your parents were really forward thinkers.
• 22:54
  Joe O'Tool: Yes. And and even speaking to some of the the lost opportunities, and so I had the opportunity to out of school go and play college football, but decided to turn that down because I didn't quite know what I wanted to do with my life, and we weren't gonna go pay for an education just to be able to play football. And and so I I took a gap year, which, again, at that time, gap year was not even a term. And and it was really weird to be the gap year kid. But right away then, I I actually got my coaching certification, and I started coaching football at the high school.
• 23:31
  And and now I've I've coached football for eight years at a couple different schools, and and I can't do that anymore because I do a lot of concussion rehab and and there's some liability issues of of doing both. So so I... But but, like, I've... I'm doing everything that I've ever wanted to do. And and I haven't missed out.
• 23:48
  And just because I didn't play football in college, I had the opportunity, and I had to learn there's always trade off that happens. And so so you have to be able to say, do I wanna do this, or do I wanna do this? And and it ended up being where, okay, I I was able to get into into coaching, which actually then led a lot of... That... That's what led me into neurology, ultimately, was because I was coaching, and I went back to school about five years after getting out of chiropractic
• 24:16
  Christy-Faith: Yes. So I wanna speak to this for a minute because I think a, a lot of parents, some of their objections to homeschooling and what makes them fearful about doing it and even the thought of doing it through twelfth grade, which I wanna shout from the mountain tops, please, please, homeschool your junior hires and high schoolers. I'm in it right now. It is the best. And it's like, why would I do all that foundational work just to send them to the wolves?
• 24:44
  Right? It's just... It's... I mean, these are the richest years. So...
• 24:48
  And this is also the time I'm in the homeschooling phase right now where a lot of parents start to feel ill equipped and quit. Right? My son's in chemistry right now. I'm not teaching the chemistry. Sourcing really well.
• 24:59
  Yeah. I've no interest in relearning chemistry, and I'm not going to do it. That's his job. Yep. But because I've built him to be an autodidact, which is just, you know, a fancy word for being a self learner, I've built those foundation...
• 25:11
  That foundation from the early years. He's able to navigate it really, really well. So... But I wanna ask you this. I think that that a lot of parents fear they can think of all those things their kid might miss out on.
• 25:26
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm.
• 25:27
  Christy-Faith: And some of them aren't true, like prom. Well, we... There's millions of homeschool proms. Graduation. There's millions of homeschool graduations.
• 25:34
  I did a keynote at one last year. What what else do they feel? High school sports, the Friday night lights. Well, kids... Homeschool kids can play at schools.
• 25:43
  You know, they can play at private
• 25:44
  Joe O'Tool: schools, public
• 25:45
  Christy-Faith: schools. Yeah. There's never been a homeschool family that I've ever known in my entire life that their kid wanted to play sports, and they didn't figure out a beautiful way to do it. So Yes. But here's why I think that parents fear is is they have that scarcity mindset.
• 26:00
  Like, what if they miss out on this? What if they miss out on this? What if they miss out on this? And they can list those things. But the...
• 26:06
  What they can't list are all those things they have no idea that they're going to have because of homeschooling. Right. And they don't they don't have that list because this is a new life, and it's a it's a new voyage for them. And I see you... You're very inspiring in this way, doctor Joe, because you are the the...
• 26:28
  A human testament to that.
• 26:30
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm. Well... And I think Elphaba that I I have to blame my parents for. Right? Like like, they were the...
• 26:36
  You know, we don't care what other people think. This is what we wanna do. So we're just gonna... Like, I wanna spend time with my kids, so I'm not gonna send them away to a school. I'm gonna do it at home.
• 26:47
  I'm gonna figure out because this is what I want to do. And so many people go through life not actually doing what they wanna do because society tells them what they should do. Yeah. And it's... And you can just kinda break through that, then then you can you can have your cake and eat it too.
• 27:02
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. I truly believe that. I I I love my life. I feel like I am... And I work full time.
• 27:08
  Do the homeschooling thing. I work full time because I want to, not because I need to. I love I'm playing every day in my work. And so, yeah, I love that so much. I wanna move on to the next question because this is really important.
• 27:21
  I was excited to ask you this today. Homeschooling four kids means I'm juggling roughly 24 different subjects at any given time. And a few years back during a particularly busy season, I hit a wall. I needed some serious help with the heavy lifting of teaching everything myself and managing schedules for four kids. That's when I found BJU Press Homeschool, and we've loved their courses so much that we keep going back.
• 27:43
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• 27:54
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• 28:18
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• 28:36
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• 29:17
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• 29:44
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• 29:56
  Grab your free trial today, and you'll see why we love it for our kids. I wanna move on to the next question because this is really important. I was excited to ask you this today. For the family right now where the mama has retaught the same thing five times. Let's just say it's math, for example, a math concept.
• 30:14
  She's taught it five different ways. She's running on fumes. Dad sees that mom is frazzled at her wits end, tired, worried about her kiddo, blaming herself maybe because the kid doesn't understand a concept right now. And... Or maybe the...
• 30:31
  A dad sees the mom struggling. Like, are you a teacher? Are you a referee all day? Like, what... This seems chaotic.
• 30:37
  This seems crazy. I have heard many times that sometimes dads aren't supportive of homeschooling because of the the taxation that it will have on mom.
• 30:50
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm.
• 30:50
  Christy-Faith: Like, really? Can you handle all that? That's a lot to handle, the teaching and and managing all of the kids. So what would you say to a dad where that is currently his experience, where, his wife seems really overwhelmed right now?
• 31:05
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. So let me actually back up and give some, some foundational background to that Okay. That question. Because
• 31:14
  Christy-Faith: Okay.
• 31:14
  Joe O'Tool: Ultimately, it's actually a fairly easy answer once you understand what is the father's role in a homeschooling family. And and so... Again, that... There's some variation within that and dads that are the primary teacher, things like that. This is kinda distinct from that.
• 31:33
  Right? But what I truly believe is that the father helps lead the homeschooling, doesn't necessarily do it. And the best leaders are the ones that aren't the micromanagers. They are the ones that do everything that is needed to support the the person doing the work. And so so at my clinic, I don't know all the ins and outs of the scheduling of the...
• 31:58
  How the office is running the finances, of how patient questions on on certain things. I don't know a lot of things that are happening within the clinic as the business leader, but I step in whenever there's a problem that needs solved, and I make sure that our office manager has every resource she needs to be able to solve that problem, including when there's a difficult conversation that is had with a patient or or with somebody or a struggle or whatever. Same thing in the home. I am not necessarily the hands on the day to day. I am I am the leader that is providing everything my wife needs to be able to effectively do that.
• 32:42
  And so that might be where I am helping her pick out curriculum. I don't know anything about curriculum. To be honest, I I... I'm a brain guy. I'm not an academic.
• 32:53
  And so so I have all the theory of, okay, what... How is learning best and all that stuff. But but I don't necessarily know which curriculum is the best curriculum. But I'm a sounding board for my wife that when she says, I'm kinda deciding between these two, and she gives me some details, and I... And I'll say, okay.
• 33:10
  What do you think is best? And she'll give me why she thinks that it is, and then I will reinforce that message for her. And and then, okay. This is great. Let's do that.
• 33:19
  And so I'm kind of out of the details and helping her support her in her decisions and backing that up. And even as a leader in... There are a lot of times where as a leader, I just need somebody to say, yeah, that's the right decision. And so so with that, then sometimes it's as simple as saying, you're making the right decision. If you're feeling like you're refereeing between the kids and and you spent your whole day more relationship management than academic, you know what?
• 33:51
  That's... Being the person that says, you did the right thing. That that is a foundational piece that that supports the mom more than anything else can. Because she just needs to know she's doing the right thing. And so if I was to boil it down, what is the role of the dad?
• 34:10
  The role of the dad is to be the vision caster, to get out of the day to day, this is what's happening in the moment, and and to see this is what's going to happen because of these decisions we make and because of the hard things that we're doing now. And so it's similar to a personal trainer. The personal trainer is not doing the work. They're just constantly reminding you, keep doing the work because, yeah, you spent a week working out and you haven't lost your weight or you don't look better in front of the mirror or XYZ, but they're reminding you keep doing it. It's worth it because in the end, the result is going to be there.
• 34:46
  We know the science behind physiology that if you lift something heavy, you're gonna get put on more muscle and you're gonna lose fat. Right? So... But doing the work can be really hard when you're laying on the floor sweating. And and so that's kind of what the dad is supposed to be is, you know what?
• 35:02
  I am there to constantly remind, you know what? Yes. This is hard or you you didn't do any school today because all you were doing was was just frustration after frustration. Kid wasn't getting a concept. You're reminding them of what's happening.
• 35:18
  And and what's actually interesting diving just a little bit, there is a book I'm reading or listening to right now on Audible called The Range. And and it's... And I think the subtitle is why generalists triumph in a specialist world. And it's specifically talking about that that broad diversity of experience versus a specialty and how over the long run, you get that. And it's specifically talking about learning.
• 35:42
  The chapter is about learning right now and how those who actually struggle more, actually, for the long term, are better learners. And and they're they're fighting with studies that in a classroom where the teacher kind of encourages and helps and provides the answer instead of letting the the child just struggle, struggle, struggle, that actually is detrimental on test scores.
• 36:05
  Christy-Faith: Yes.
• 36:06
  Joe O'Tool: And so
• 36:06
  Christy-Faith: Well, because it doesn't flex those problem solving muscles and all those soft skills, grit, resilience, frustration tolerance, all of those soft skills that we know are actually more attractive later on for jobs. Right. Right? Your employer is not gonna ask you, did you memorize the periodic table? They're gonna ask you about your team skills.
• 36:24
  And Yes. Yeah. So what... Okay. Let me ask you this though because I think that fair...
• 36:30
  K. I gotta say it. It's kind of the elephant in the room. There's going to be a range of health in terms of the ladies listening today in their marriages. Okay?
• 36:39
  So so, what I hear you saying, and and this is something that I've noticed with Scott because I do primarily do most of the homeschooling in our homeschool. And there's been seasons where he's taken over a subject for me with a particular child because I was really struggling, you know, in the thick of it. But we... You gotta... I had my kids close together, and I had a set of twins in the middle.
• 37:02
  There were some years there that were that were thick. Okay? Years. So... But I wanna just say that that one thing that because I knew he was so deeply committed to homeschooling, he was safe for me to go to with problems.
• 37:14
  Mhmm. And I'm a big believer, and I think this is true with parenting too, because I may... I don't know if you know this, but we are healed or healing, or we ever healed. We're healing from, We started out as authoritarian parents. Mhmm.
• 37:27
  I don't know if you know that about us. And so... And so... And and we are still healing from that, especially with our oldest. Right?
• 37:35
  Because he experienced the brunt of of that, and, I I carry a lot of of shame and guilt and regret over that. But but one thing that I noticed with growing in my parenting and that I see also playing out in our marriage is rather than, okay. The kids were were a mess today. I didn't get to any lessons and then have a husband swoop in and say, like, panic that they didn't cover those many worksheet pages. You know, it's like, well, let's let's work that out.
• 38:02
  And then when when we start to see patterns.
• 38:05
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm.
• 38:06
  Christy-Faith: That's when we start to do movement. And I do that with my discipline too. I'm not gonna do tit for tat on every single thing my kid does. That's how I used to do it. You can't get away with that.
• 38:15
  There needs a consequence for everything. Right? That's how I started out. But now, no. Now I look for patterns in character.
• 38:23
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm. Yes.
• 38:24
  Christy-Faith: And then and then if I start to see it, I still wait. And and then when the child is ready and regulated and safe and we have a moment alone, I talk about a pattern.
• 38:36
  Joe O'Tool: Uh-huh.
• 38:37
  Christy-Faith: But I always start with my own patterns. Right? Right? Right. Yeah.
• 38:41
  So that vulnerability of this, I've really... I wanna tell you a story about this struggle that I've had in my life when I was your age, and and I really wanna help you with something, you know, that type of a thing. And I noticed that as we've changed in our parenting, it's also played out in our marriage too.
• 38:56
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm.
• 38:56
  Christy-Faith: And and so I will say though that we do have moms. As you know, we have Thrive Homeschool Community. We have moms whose husbands are looking over their shoulder. They almost feel like their husbands are wanting them to fail. Or or the husband is not deschooled, so he's freaking out that mom is a little looser than he wants to be.
• 39:15
  Is there any encouragement that you can that you can offer there?
• 39:19
  Joe O'Tool: For the moms or for the dads?
• 39:20
  Christy-Faith: I don't know. That was a lot. I don't know. Just what's coming to mind?
• 39:25
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. I I I think on both ends, one, I would say to the moms, a lot of times... And and I I I know this from personal experience is when when I am under stress, and and almost everybody does this, you start taking it out on others even if you
• 39:45
  Christy-Faith: don't mean it. Yeah.
• 39:47
  Joe O'Tool: And so if you feel like you're being judged or or you're being critiqued and constantly being shamed or or bombarded or looking over the shoulder, micromanaged, whatever you wanna say. If you're feeling that, it might not be because there's ill intent. It might be because there is either fear or or work stress or the the burden to provide for my family or these things that I'm... I actually... In in some ways, that that father cares more or cares very deeply.
• 40:29
  And so now they may be misplaced in how they're doing that, and I'll I'll speak to that in a second. But but it's not. A lot of times, we will assign ill intent to things that are frustrations for us. Mhmm. And and so then then it just creates this spiral where we can't talk to each other because now I think you're doing this because you don't like me or you think I'm a failure.
• 40:53
  And so now you're projecting my frustration back onto the person who's also dealing with their stuff, and they're projecting their stuff on me. And we just keep projecting onto each other, and we can never actually end up having a conversation.
• 41:06
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Joe O'Tool: And there... It always comes down to one person has to break that cycle. Mhmm. So so that's that's one thing is if you're feeling that, look deeper, kinda like you were saying. Look for the pattern.
• 41:19
  Look beyond just the behavior or the feeling that you have and go deeper into the... Why might he be experiencing this? Why might he feel like he has to have certain expectations and certain things that now I am feeling the pressure? So so I would encourage that. And then to the dad, I would say a lot of that is you're gonna have to address your own concerns.
• 41:44
  You're... You you are playing that out. That is a reality. And and a lot of times, again, that concern isn't just because there's a failure happening. It's the fear of a failure happening.
• 41:58
  Christy-Faith: Yes.
• 41:58
  Joe O'Tool: And so you're gonna have to lean into that and and actually explore that. And instead of just letting yourself go with that, you... You'll have to get involved and talk to other dads. Listen to this podcast. Right?
• 42:10
  Like like, listen to other dads that that have been through it, and and they can say, okay. Yeah. I I understand that there is fear there. I can understand because of outside voices speaking to you why this might might be a reality, but it's not. And and we can we can confidently say...
• 42:28
  You can start to see the pattern of experience that dads have whose kids have have turned out well. And so so to those dads, I would say one specific action step you can take, and I've got some other thoughts on that that maybe I'll share later. But one specific action step that you can take is go out for coffee with a dad that you respect his kids.
• 42:53
  Christy-Faith: Love that.
• 42:54
  Joe O'Tool: Invite a dad that's like, I like to spend time with those kids. Mhmm. And and then just talk. You don't... You're not gonna try to recreate what he is doing in his family.
• 43:05
  You're just talking. And you will learn things, and your... The the pressure that you feel had... That had built up will melt away. Find one one person, one dad specifically that's like, I like their kids.
• 43:17
  I want my kids to be like them. I I just like being around their kids because they have kinda cool kids. And and then just get off. That's that's all that you need.
• 43:26
  Christy-Faith: Yes. And you said one thing that I wanna get back to because it just struck my heart when you said it. And you said that a lot of that what a mom could view maybe as questioning is... Or even if maybe dad isn't taking a great approach, and he is doing that. I I...
• 43:44
  What I hear is the root is probably fear. The root is probably dad is is scared that doors will be closed on the kid. They're not learning what they're supposed to be learning. This... They're gonna miss out or whatever that fear may be.
• 43:57
  And I think that that... Stop there. No. You know that. Name that.
• 44:04
  Name that. This is my fear talking. This is Yes. Right? And and then do something with that.
• 44:09
  Right? So I know that that that has something that's really helped me in my life just in terms of my own emotional regulation, which, shout out to the soft skill of emotional regulation. Did you know that there's now studies out? You probably you probably were on the studies, doctor Joe, but that that is now the number one predictor of academic success is not intelligence at all. It is emotional regulation.
• 44:32
  Did you hear that, dads? If your kid can look at that word problem and not melt down in tears and throw the pencil across the room and has the grit to try and try and fail and try and fail and fail and fail and try and try and try, that is the skill that is going to promise them a bright future. It's not actually the stinking long division problem.
• 44:57
  Joe O'Tool: Correct.
• 44:58
  Christy-Faith: And if we can give our kids the grit, the emotional toleration, frustration tolerance, all of those skills, right, then that is... They're gonna be able to go so much farther in life than if someone swept in and made sure that they did that long division before daddy comes home and looks at it and see... You know, oh, let's show daddy. You know, it it always... I always, like, have a, like, a when when moms are like, show daddy your work you did today.
• 45:26
  Yeah. Show him a 100... A plus on the top of the paper. And I'm like, that is not an education. Right?
• 45:34
  Joe O'Tool: You're you're hitting a you're hitting a current hot button for me. One one thing that I'm I'm encouraging homeschool parents, and it seems really counterintuitive, and a lot of times there's this pushback initially. And and I'm... So I'm working on developing the topic and and more as a lecture. All of our education methods primarily are geared towards finding the right answer.
• 45:59
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Joe O'Tool: And that is the wrong way to educate.
• 46:02
  Christy-Faith: Absolutely.
• 46:03
  Joe O'Tool: Because life is not built on finding the right answer. No. It... It's built on finding a better answer. Mhmm.
• 46:11
  And so so I I... There... There's so many examples of that that that I could give, but but even even when I... One of my board exams, it's interesting in chiropractic school, you you have four different board exams. The first two are more clinical academic in nature.
• 46:26
  It's the... You have your question and then you have a b c and d, and you have to answer the right one. And and most people do relatively well with that. And then part three is a clinical exam. And so so you have a a scenario, and then you have eight different choices, and you have to choose the best three.
• 46:46
  And then from that, then you have follow-up questions of, okay. Now choose the next best three. So so it might be, what is your initial diagnosis and and some potential other ones, so your best three of that. And then what would be some follow-up testing that you would do, and what's your best three of that? And then what would you do from a recommendation standpoint, a therapy standpoint, and what's your best...
• 47:07
  And so if you don't get those first three right, then you're you're not gonna get the next three right, and you're not gonna... And that's how life is played. And most people fail that portion of the board, not because they don't know how to think, but they don't know how to reason in finding a better answer because their entire education was built around finding the right answer. And when there's multiple right answers, now I'm frozen.
• 47:32
  Christy-Faith: Right.
• 47:33
  Joe O'Tool: And so so... Yeah. So that's that's a hot button topic, that, like... Quit trying to teach your kids to find the right answer. Teach them to find a better answer.
• 47:43
  And when when they get this answer, then it's, okay. What's an even better answer than that one?
• 47:49
  Christy-Faith: Well... And that... And and right answers, grading kids, sorting kids, all of that, that kills a love of learning.
• 47:55
  Joe O'Tool: Yes.
• 47:55
  Christy-Faith: So... And so many parents homeschool so their kids love learning and that they're still doing school to their kid at
• 48:02
  Joe O'Tool: home. Yes. Yes.
• 48:03
  Christy-Faith: And doing school to kids is the opposite way of building a lifelong love of learning. Yes.
• 48:11
  Joe O'Tool: It And the only reason why that method was actually introduced was to make sure in a group setting, nobody's falling behind.
• 48:18
  Christy-Faith: Yes.
• 48:19
  Joe O'Tool: Right? It's like... And so so we don't... When we remove that group setting, now that's no longer necessary, but we still adopt those same methods in a... In the wrong setting.
• 48:30
  Christy-Faith: Okay. Before we go any further, I need to tell you about something that has saved our family a ridiculous amount of money. It's Summit HealthShare, my husband's company, and it is one of the most amazing organizations. Thank you for sponsoring this podcast. Now, if you're not familiar with health sharing, here's the short version.
• 48:47
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• 49:12
  There are no networks, no permission slips. And there are different plan options depending on what your family needs, including just major medical only. On our plan, which is a little bit more robust, we get free prescriptions, free labs, and no co pays. And our family of six saves a thousand dollars a month. And I know it sounds too good to be true, but it's not.
• 49:31
  It's actually how health care should work. It's just not how insurance companies do it. So here's what to do. Go to summithealthshare.com. I'll put a link in the show notes.
• 49:40
  Take the savings calculator. You can do it in under two minutes, and it will tell you what you should be paying for the care that you need. And when you see that number and how much lower it is than traditional health insurance, you will sprain your ankle running to the phone. And when you call, they will walk you through everything. And please tell them that you listen to the show because I want you to have the VIP treatment.
• 50:00
  So you know how when you meet another homeschool family, you end up talking for, like, an hour? Swapping recommendations, sharing what's working, telling them about the pediatrician who actually gets it, or that you go and see the speech therapist or that OT. That's just how we are. We love to take care of each other. That's the whole idea behind The Christy-Faith list, which is entirely free for homeschooling families.
• 50:20
  It's a directory of colleges, businesses, doctors, reading specialists, any kind of business, you name it, who share our values and want to work with homeschooling families. All those recommendations that you're always passing around, now they're all in one place. And if you're a business owner or part of an organization that loves to work with homeschooling families and wants more business from us, sign yourself up. We wanna know who you are, and we wanna support you. Search The Christy-Faith list today and find the people who know you, get you, and want to work with you.
• 50:50
  Let's support the people who support us. I will put a link in the show notes. Yes. Okay. So, doctor Joe, did you know that I'm a trained historian?
• 50:58
  Did I ever tell you that? No. I didn't know that. So I have a graduate degree in history, and so I was so excited when I was writing homeschool rising because chapter three is the history of the compulsory school system. And and I did not like how some other people told that history.
• 51:14
  Joe O'Tool: Sure.
• 51:15
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. Because as a historian, there are certain ethical guidelines
• 51:20
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm.
• 51:21
  Christy-Faith: To not be revisionist.
• 51:22
  Joe O'Tool: Yes.
• 51:23
  Christy-Faith: K. So, but what I wanna say is about that, which I could... Man, that could be a whole fun show with you. Yeah. But but what I wanna say is they have to measure what's measurable.
• 51:37
  They have to... And and so... And they have to be able to monitor progress. And and dare I say, this feels loosey goosey, but it's it's it's not. I I think that the most important things in a child's education, require a relationship to see.
• 51:53
  Mhmm. And they're not measurable on a Scantron sheet. So... And so I... It's funny because one of my talks at at conferences is on this self doubt.
• 52:03
  And I often say, like, when you actually understand what an education is, the cultivation of a human being that you're looking at things that a Scantron sheet can't measure, I go when you look at x y z, this, that, and the other, is there any question that you're not the most qualified person on earth to be doing this?
• 52:21
  Joe O'Tool: Right.
• 52:22
  Christy-Faith: When you truly understand education, like, you know, very similar to how the ancients viewed it. Plato, Aristotle, those guys, they did not view education as shoving content. They even said It's not the filling of a bucket. It's the ignition of a fire. Yes.
• 52:37
  Yeah. So, hey, I wanna ask you though because I think this is really important. I do think there are dads that feel a little bit on the outside of homeschooling even when they're supportive. Glad they're doing the homeschooling, but feeling a little bit, I wanna say, maybe lost or I don't know what she's doing, but she's doing a great job. You know, that type of a thing.
• 52:58
  How would you encourage that dad? Because I think that the risk to that, although, like, at your office, you delegate things really beautifully, We don't want mom to feel alone.
• 53:08
  Joe O'Tool: Right.
• 53:09
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. So what would you say to a dad who is supportive but just wants to to do it, see how he can improve with supporting his wife?
• 53:16
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. What I would say to that is a lot of times, I I think the focus of that turns into how do I learn more about homeschooling or how do I learn more about the curriculum or... And and now you're duplicating responsibilities or time spent. And and so I wouldn't necessarily lean into saying, okay. You need to understand homeschooling more.
• 53:44
  What I would say is you need to understand mom more.
• 53:47
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 53:48
  Joe O'Tool: And and you need to, like, find out what helps her, what will support her. So it might be... She might be more academically bent, and she wants more more adult conversations to happen. And so she might want you to to just listen to a book together. And so it might not be an interest of yours, but you know what?
• 54:11
  You'll do that together. Or some it's, okay. I just need to go out and have a conversation, go for a walk. And and there's, again, different seasons where as soon as we got to the point where our oldest was able to to babysit while we go for a walk in the in the evening for Yeah. Five minutes, that was a huge step for us.
• 54:29
  But but it's... So so all that comes down to you have to know your wife. You have to know mom more than you have to know about homeschooling.
• 54:41
  Christy-Faith: Yes. I would agree so much because, really, it's whatever she is struggling with you wanna help with. Right? Not swoop in and fix. You all know by now that women don't like that because that's not...
• 54:52
  It's like, we just need to be heard. We don't need you to tell me 5,000,000 other things to do and add that to my list. You know, it's so interesting. We encourage moms in Thrive Homeschool Community twice a year to check-in with their kids, and we have this child interview that we give the moms to... Where the kids say what they've loved, what they have not loved.
• 55:10
  And on that questionnaire is a little bit of a risky question where mom asks the kid, is there anything that I do that that you wish that I would I would do differently that I can change And... And work but, you know, now that I I think about that, I think bringing dad into that larger conversation would be a really healthy thing probably. And then even expanding that, even if it's just a twice a year check-in, like an overall inventory or audit or whatever you wanna call it or you're homeschooling, that's, you know, we're managing a very large project. I'm in the business world, and so I really view homeschooling as project management, quite frankly. I I...
• 55:45
  Yeah. A loving way. But There's organizational principles that Right. This is a profession. This is our job.
• 55:51
  We wanna do a good job at this. And and and so... And having that open line of communication without big feelings, negative feelings on being... Your wife being able to say, I need more support in this way. And actually, can think back to so many times in my life with Scott.
• 56:08
  We've been married twenty seven years, and he's just my best friend, my favorite person on the But there have been times where I remember when I was trying to get homeschool rising to the deadline. He is very busy. He is a CEO himself, but he's on board with that. He wants more families homeschooling. And you know what, Joe?
• 56:26
  That it it... We were just so strapped that for... While we were getting that book to the finish line, he took over family dinners. Mhmm. He literally learned how to cook.
• 56:36
  Joe O'Tool: Yep.
• 56:37
  Christy-Faith: And, you know... Right? Because we're we're a team effort. Yes. And I just...
• 56:42
  I look back on that so fondly because he... It's not what he wanted to do. It's not his gifting. It's not what I wanna do either, but I do it anyway. And he does other things he doesn't wanna do.
• 56:50
  We have we have the things we do that we don't wanna do. But just how supportive and collaborative, that I see he was in that, I felt so loved by him.
• 57:03
  Joe O'Tool: Mhmm. And and that's what that's what a dad needs to do is... It it... Exactly. It could it could be a mom needs to read a book with you or something like that.
• 57:15
  It might be as simple as for a period of time taking over meal planning and taking over... Right? All of... It is, you have to... You don't need to focus on the student.
• 57:27
  You need to focus on the teacher.
• 57:29
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 57:29
  Joe O'Tool: And that's kind of what a school does. Right? We we see this huge rise in administrative burden and how many administrators... What are they there for? They are there simply to help the teachers.
• 57:41
  They don't really know the students. They don't... They're not really involved in the teaching. They're just providing all the support so the teacher can be there. And that's really what the dad should be.
• 57:50
  Obviously, you should know your kids. But but, like, you... Ultimately, role is to do whatever your wife needs to be able to be the best teacher for your children that she is.
• 58:02
  Christy-Faith: I love doing this show and doing all this research and bringing it to you week after week. It is so fun, and it's meaningful for me. And I love that it's free to you. So if you've gotten any value out of today's show, would you do something for me right now even while I'm talking? Would you engage in some way?
• 58:17
  Maybe hit the subscribe button so that you get notified when my show drops. Maybe give me the five stars, of course, if I've deserved it. Please comment, ask a question, encourage another mom. And why am I asking you to do this? Well, it's because the robots, the algorithm is what decides if a show is worth pushing out, and engagement is their currency.
• 58:37
  I know you guys out there, some of you make sure to engage in two or three ways every single show. Girl, I see you and I love you for it. Thank you so much. Yes. I think that's that's absolutely such good advice.
• 58:50
  I only have one question left for you, but I I think it's an important question, so I wanna ask it. Let's talk about the dad who feels like maybe at his work or at church or in his friend group, they're the only family homeschooling. And his wife has all this vocabulary and she's in community and this and that and the other, and then he's at the golf course and it's awkward.
• 59:13
  Joe O'Tool: Yep.
• 59:13
  Christy-Faith: Right? How do you explain that your family's homeschooling? What advice would you give that dad? I don't know if it's a script or something that he could say, or what do you say? I know what we say, but I wanna hear it from you.
• 59:25
  Joe O'Tool: I would say embrace being weird. Honestly, just embrace being abnormal. Embrace being different. Yeah. There...
• 59:35
  There's this societal pressure to conform, but there's also a real interest in the nonconformer. And and so so if we can... If we realize, yes, I I wanna conform, and I want people to like me and fit in and all this stuff, but, also, when I'm not the conformer, then there's there's an elevation in their mind of who I am. And so so I I would start with that of, you know what? It's okay to be different.
• 1:00:05
  It's okay to be the oddball. It's okay to be the one that is not the normal one there. I was I was dual enrolled. So so in high school, again, I didn't I didn't really do a whole lot of classes. I I took a couple at the high school, like, small engine mechanic and construction, building, and trade, something like that.
• 1:00:24
  So, again, nonacademic courses that my mom couldn't teach me. But then I played I played football, and I was the weird one. I was the the kid who was the homeschool kid. Everybody else was at school all day. And and I had to try to fit in as this this weirdo, if you will.
• 1:00:41
  But what was... This this to me is is one of the... Not necessarily the proudest moments of my life, but just kind of this this pivotal moment that that showed, like, okay. It's okay to be homeschooled and to be different, but my senior year, I was named as a team captain. And and and I was...
• 1:00:58
  Again, I was the... This is the kid that's never around. I was not the popular kid, but but I was... Because I embraced who I was, and I worked my butt off to be who I was and I'm just me. I don't need to be anything else other than just who I am.
• 1:01:19
  That will go a long way to a lot of people. A lot of people like the confident individual who knows this is why we did it. This this is what we do. I... Regardless, we might fail, but you know what?
• 1:01:31
  I'm okay because I'm different, and
• 1:01:33
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 1:01:34
  Joe O'Tool: That's okay. And and those are the ones that in the end are proven to be successful.
• 1:01:39
  Christy-Faith: Absolutely. And I also think diffusing with humor is Yes. Is really valuable. Like, yeah, I just wanted my kids as weird as possible, so we decided to... Yo.
• 1:01:48
  You can then hit the t. Right? We have to remember these people aren't really... It's... Especially in casual conversations.
• 1:01:56
  They're not asking you these deep questions. We often feel like we're cornered and we have to give our manifesto for our why. In sometimes social situations where really they're just making conversation and it's not that big of a deal. But what I did hear from you that I really want to reiterate is do not apologize
• 1:02:13
  Joe O'Tool: Correct.
• 1:02:14
  Christy-Faith: For homeschooling, and don't feel apologetic. We are making incredible sacrifices to do this. Your wife is making incredible sacrifices to do this. This is out of love for your kiddos.
• 1:02:26
  Joe O'Tool: Yes.
• 1:02:26
  Christy-Faith: And dare I say, a lot of society, their judgment is because they're
• 1:02:30
  Joe O'Tool: not projection.
• 1:02:31
  Christy-Faith: Is not... They're not willing to do
• 1:02:34
  Joe O'Tool: Yes.
• 1:02:35
  Christy-Faith: What we are sometimes. Also, it's projection. Like, are their kid... Comparison, are their kids gonna turn out better than mine, or are my choices now in question because you are doing this instead? It is so more about them than it is about us.
• 1:02:51
  And just know that know that. So the lighter that you can keep it... You know, if someone sits you down and says, no. I I actually really wanna know why you're making this choice. I'm very curious.
• 1:03:01
  Then yes, lean in. I often tell moms, especially like new homeschooling moms at Thanksgiving, uncle Joe is gonna quiz them on the whatever battle of the bulge facts. I often advise parents to just have a couple things memorized. Yeah. Just phrases memorized that you say to diffuse, whether it's humor, whether it's something else or...
• 1:03:25
  And then that goes so far, farther than you think. But I I do think that that is a struggle that dads have maybe in the workplace where they... They're worried they might feel judged for what they're doing. And Sure. Yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Joe O'Tool: So But a lot of times that judgment comes, like you said, it comes from those who are not willing to Yeah. Pay the price. Yeah. It's it's it's the man that's in the arena that is going to be judged. Right?
• 1:03:48
  Christy-Faith: Pulling through Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:49
  Joe O'Tool: Jenny Roosevelt. It's it's like, if they're not in the arena, then I don't care what they have to say.
• 1:03:56
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Oh my goodness. That resonates with me so much.
• 1:03:59
  Like, when people insult me on social media, you know what my immediate thought is? Well, one, thank you for... Now I'm gonna have a viral video because there's gonna be a fight for comments. Thank you. But also, I say, well, clearly, you lost the argument if you have to attack me.
• 1:04:11
  Joe O'Tool: Yes. Exactly. Yep. Boom.
• 1:04:13
  Christy-Faith: Well, Joe, you have written a book, a children's book. Want you to share what that is. Do you work virtually with patients where
• 1:04:22
  Joe O'Tool: Some work... So so two two things. One is, yes, I I wrote a a children's book called The Stinks. That comes from a phrase that my grandpa used and then my mom used a lot when we were growing up homeschooling. And and so it's all about getting outside and getting the stink off.
• 1:04:39
  And so so it's kind of a personal family project, and it's it's been a lot of fun even just sharing it with patients and and homeschooling families to, again, bring that humor to... Okay. Instead of the you're being a bad person, and now we need to discipline you and all of this stuff, instead of doing that, a lot of times when the spiral is starting to happen, which every parent has children, the spiral with their emotions and their behaviors and all that stuff, it brings humor to it. And it's just get outside because you're stinky. And and it and it just...
• 1:05:10
  It it snaps kids out, and and there's a whole host of neurological benefits.
• 1:05:15
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. Yeah. Regulates the nervous system, gets the body open. Yeah. All that.
• 1:05:19
  Good. Yeah.
• 1:05:19
  Joe O'Tool: But then but then it makes it... It it it makes it easier for parents to use that phrase because they have that concrete story that's kind of funny and humorous, and and it just drives the message of, like, okay. You're being stinky. Go outside. And Yeah.
• 1:05:33
  And so that... That's a children's book. It's on Amazon. I believe... We're currently reworking our personal website, o'toole.life.
• 1:05:43
  We're also... I'm currently writing a book. I have it outlined on the neurology of identity. And so kind of from that, a little bit of that masterclass with this self esteem and stuff, there's components of that that kind of wrap into that. So I'm working on writing that right now.
• 1:06:03
  Christy-Faith: Great.
• 1:06:04
  Joe O'Tool: So we do that. And then we are... Currently, we only see patients in person for the most part. We do we do actually do some telehealth, but it's a little bit limited. And then we are working on, hopefully, within a year's time, launching a fully virtual clinic, a neurological rehab clinic.
• 1:06:22
  Christy-Faith: Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And we will put the links to everything in the show notes so you don't have to go and hunt and find anything, those of you who are listening today. And doctor Joe, I have valued this conversation with you.
• 1:06:35
  I respect you and your wife so much. It has been an absolute pleasure to get to know you over the last several years. Thanks for coming on the show today.
• 1:06:43
  Joe O'Tool: Yeah. Definitely. It's it's it's... I love talking, if you can tell. So it truly is a pleasure.
• 1:06:49
  Christy-Faith: We have good things to say. Thanks.