Latest / Reimagine Running / Reimagine Running | Interview with Alex Docta S1E27
Transcript
- Ryan Head: Alright, everybody, welcome back to Reimagine Running, the podcast talking about why we run. I'm really excited for this episode. This one is one that I have been thinking about for a long time. ⁓ he is the my guest that we have on today is someone that I have known for many years now, and is someone who When I first came up with this podcast idea, I know I've said this quite a bit, he was one of my original guest ideas that I had. I didn't know for sure if you'd be willing to or be able to. You know how some people are. Some people don't want the limelight, and that's totally fine. That's just that's how my wife is. But he was someone that I was really excited about because not only is he someone that I've come to know quite a bit while working with him and kind of doing some volunteer work with the Ogden Marathon, but he's been someone who has just been so dominant ⁓ in the ultra-running scene for many years. ⁓ I know he's gone through some some ⁓ injuries and some other things, but he's come back, he's been on fire, ⁓ he had some great stuff happen this year as well. I don't want to spoil it for him. I'll let him be the one that tells us all about these stories. ⁓ but I have just been excited. I've been excited to bring on my guest, Alex Docte, to this episode today, who again he is just a fantastic individual, ⁓ does a lot of work for the Ogden area because he he is a part of the Gold Foundation. who is very, very involved in the community. And as he knows, as I know, we're both very passionate about community. That is a very bad aspect of what we both do. ⁓ and it has been something just been fun to see how much not only just the Gold Foundation and what their outreach and what they're doing, but just the running club and just everything in general. It's been fun to just see this aucton community ⁓ kind of grow, if you will, or bloom. ⁓ because I think we both could probably say, you know, when we first both kind of got into all this, ⁓ it was blooming, but it was a lot smaller. But I think it's just been really cool to see, you know, especially in the last year or so, just what is happening ⁓ in this Ogden area. So, anyways, I'm excited to bring Alex on. Let me give just a little intro about who he is. Alex again, ⁓ currently resides here in the ⁓ Utah area. He is very involved in the community as well as He is the he is one of the directors for the Gold Foundation. Very involved, has been instrumental in bringing the Ogden Marathon ⁓ to fruition multiple years now. As well as last thing I'll touch on, but I I'm gonna let him give a lot of this. Alex is very, very fast and he has set some records. He has set some he's in some top ten rate Top 10 fastest ⁓ paces and races for many for many races in this area. ⁓ and so it's just a it's a joy to bring him on. You could almost call him a lead. I think I would almost I think I would call him elite. He probably doesn't want to be called an elite, but I'm gonna call him elite. ⁓ it's cool to see, yeah. It's cool to see what he's been doing. Anyways, Alex, I'm I'll I'll quit blabbering on, but dude, welcome to podcast. Alex: Thank you, yeah. Yeah, thank you, man. ⁓ appreciate you having me. I think ⁓ yeah, I don't know. Like running wise, I don't know what you call me, elite, sub elite, whatever. I d I it's funny, I'm getting old enough where I'm like, I don't know if the category even matters. You know, you're trying for something for a while, speed wise, and then you're like, nah, I just enjoy running and and I like ringing the best on myself. And then ⁓ the goal foundation, I think Where I work, I'm the director of operations there and and I've been race director for the Octa Marathon for the past four ⁓ races, which is cool. ⁓ it's it's an unbelievable community event. It's an unbelievable nonprofit, the goal foundation is. And and I think what you're speaking to is, you know, we're kind of both A part of the current generation of the goal foundation or the Ogden Marathon, right? Like you've been an Ogden Marathon ambassador for the past ⁓ few years here, and you've been a huge part of growing ⁓ the run club, of helping coach the athletes that want to use ⁓ kind of the official training plan of the Ogden Marathon. And yeah, it's it's it's not, you know, the Gold Foundation I can look at it as kind of this linear growth thing and and transitions and changes and and really it's like generational. We have a team that most of them have been here between two. Ryan Head: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Alex: and three to four seasons now and and you and our our whole kind of ambassador team are a part of that generation. So yeah, it's been fun to get to know you ⁓ the whole time I've been here at goal, which is awesome. And and just see what we've been able to kind of institute and bring to the plate and share with our community. Ryan Head: Yeah, and and I and I apologize, I I'm not taking away anything from the previous generations, if you will. They they have done you know, I I know quite a few of the previous ⁓ you know, ⁓ if you will, the staff, the administration behind the scenes of what cause right guys, if you think the Ogden Marathon is just a snap your finger and it all comes together, there is so much that goes on, the amount of volunteer hours I'm gonna let Alex talk about this because it's way over my head. He he's the professional Alex: ⁓ yeah, sure. No, I know, I know. Yeah. Ryan Head: But I think it'll be really cool to hear people you know a little bit more about this today because I think a lot of times we don't realize the work that goes into making some of these races happen. And it's just a testament to the dedication, the commitment, and the love. Because I th I do think like in a way, yeah, it's a job. It's like anybody's job, but you gotta love what you're doing because if not, I think you it would become a little too stressful. So, anyways, not taken away from the previous generations, just it's amazing what you've been doing. It's been fun to be a part of it, it's been fun to work with you. Alex: Yeah. Ryan Head: and and just kind of see where things go. So before we jump into it with Alex, I do want to just make two quick plugs. We've already kind of done one already, but we're gonna do it anyways. First one is, you know, want to give a big shout out to our premier sponsor Fleet Feet ⁓ of the podcast. Fleet Feet's been doing an amazing job in the community. Big help to anybody who needs shoe needs, nutrition needs, gear needs, stop over, see those guys both in Ogden and Layton. They'll get you taken care of. So Jamie over there doing some great stuff. If you're looking for coaching, if you're looking for ⁓ any kind of assistance, Stop by, talk with them. They've got programs throughout the whole year for all kinds of different race instances. So take a look at them. As well as I want to make a quick plug for my favorite road race out there, the Ogden Marathon. I know right now this episode is gonna get released in July, August, somewhere around this time frame. I know we're you know the race is in May, but I'm telling you, in my personal opinion, I've said it before on previous episodes, I'll say it again, Ogden is the best marathon in the state of Utah. I'd arguably say it's probably one of the top five in the Western United States as well. go sign up, guys. You're not gonna be disappointed. It is a beautiful race. Every year I meet people from outside the state, I meet people outside of the country who have come here, they've heard about how beautiful it is. Running down from Cosley Reservoir, running through I think North Fork Canyon, no South Fork Canyon, ⁓ coming around Pine View, running through Ogden Canyon, there's really not a better experience. So Sign up, go go take care of this, as well as they have other races. The Gold Foundation does a lot of other things, other races throughout the year. ⁓ so make sure go check these guys out. You can sign up for any one of these. ⁓ there's just a lot of love that gets put into what they're trying to accomplish. So give them give them some love, guys. So awesome. Well, Alex, before we jump into it, like I've been doing with a lot of It it it's it's kind of a trick a trick question I'll throw at you. ⁓ and I didn't even let him I didn't let on to this that I was gonna do this to him when we when we were we talking beforehand. But before we jump into running, one of my favorite things I've been doing with everyone, my guests, what is something outside of running that you're passionate about? It can be anything. What's something else that you would say, you know, I'm I it's probably at the same level as running, but maybe maybe it's even higher. Maybe you're like, you know, I'm we've had people come on and talk about planting, gardening. We've had people talking about ⁓ Alex: Mm-hmm. Mm. Ryan Head: doing glasswork which is impressive and we've had people well I mean it's been all over the the radar so ⁓ or the gamut. So I ask you, what what's something else you're passionate about outside of running? Alex: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's I don't there's kinda like a lot of things. ⁓ but I like gardening a lot. and and I and I I actually like I like using my voice. ⁓ I grew up singing in different choirs, ⁓ being in bands. ⁓ I still sing a bit now. I'm not in a band currently, ⁓ but I I do like I announce events on the side. So I go and travel around and announce a few events each year. And ⁓ so I guess like Yeah, I guess I like singing, you know, maybe that's the that's the thing. I I that's my that's my side hustle passion, I guess, in addition to in addition to running. Ryan Head: That's awesome. I didn't know that about you. I mean, yes, obviously I've heard you MC if that's the right word, ⁓ for some of the races and stuff. And and you do, you have a yeah the you have a good voice. I don't know what the right terminology is for that, but you have like a soothing voice. I don't know if that's the right term. It might be weird, but ⁓ but like you have a voice that I could totally get where you're coming from. So a couple questions I I'll throw at you about that 'cause I'm I'm very interested. ⁓ so first off, what kind of like you say you've been in some bands, like Alex: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: What kinda genre of what kind of genre of music have you have you been in? I'm excited about that. Alex: Yeah. Yeah, so like like classic rock, ground rock, pop. Like it kinda all falls in there. Like I grew up listening to to classic rock. So by classic rock, I guess it's like Elton John, Bob Seeger, like Fleetwood Mac, like stuff like that. ⁓ my mom was my mom ⁓ was a young mother, you know. She'd she had me when she was nineteen. So we like the coolest I'm the oldest and and we always we grew up listening to to what she was listening to, and that was classic rock, and then that like grunge, you know. So like Chris Cornell, Soundgarden. Ryan Head: Let's go. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Alex: really merged into like Chris Cornell leading audio slave, which was like for me generationally was was my band, I guess, but Smashing Pumpkins, you know, anybody that fits in there, Allison Chains, Marcy Playground. ⁓ but but then, you know, like appreciating everything, I guess. ⁓ it's just if you like using your voice and you like making sounds, which I guess I always have, ⁓ maybe just to fill the void. yeah, I I so anyways in bands I guess ⁓ pr predominantly rock music. and then and then I play I play a passable rhythm guitar. I learned to play guitar mainly I guess at the end of high school, beginning of college, ⁓ mainly so I could sing along with myself, you know, as opposed to just singing to the radio and stuff. So ⁓ so with that I play like everything. But but yeah, it's fun. Ryan Head: Okay. That's super cool, dude. I had no idea. And it's funny how much me and you are very similar on our music tastes. Like, well done. Like, I'm huge grunt huge grunge guy as well. Obviously, I think we're about the same age. So we grew up in the the beautiful time of music there. And and then, yeah, classic, classic rock, 70s, 80s ⁓ rock, just some of my fav I mean you Fleetwood Mac, like come on, like who are we talking about here? Like, just amazing albums. ⁓ and and I mean I could Alex: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: I keep going on, but that's just really cool. I love it. I love where you're going with that. So that's super cool. One question I'd throw at you about that last question I'll I'll ask about music. ⁓ I I'm assuming you took voice lessons, ⁓ or anything like that, or not really? Alex: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, I yeah, I grew up you know, you grew up singing in choir ⁓ like in grade school and stuff like that and and there was a I guess there was a moment for me that that was was special. I remember being in fifth grade and and my music teacher came up afterwards and was like, Hey, I was I was listening, you know, people were singing and there was this voice and and I was ps trying to figure out whose it was and it was yours and I think you should go try out for this this boys choir, this kind of regional like traveling choir thing that happens and ⁓ Ryan Head: Okay, yeah. Alex: and and and I grew up in Wisconsin. It's called the Appleton Boys Choir and ⁓ and so it was like a big deal. It was like they, you know, they're like a couple kids from each city that are chosen to go do these tryouts and and get on with this. And and it and it kinda I guess it empowered me. ⁓ we'll talk about empowerment I'm sure with running and it empowered me in a way that ⁓ that made me feel confident about like something that I knew I always put like all my passion into. Like when I'm singing, like I'm focused and it's the same kind of flow state you can that I can find during running. And ⁓ and so that was a moment for me. So like, you know, it it ⁓ not like voice lessons individual and stuff, although I have ⁓ I my I have done a little bit of ⁓ of singing and vocal lessons here in Utah actually. ⁓ in my in my adult age, the same way that I've started to like bring coaching into my life, ⁓ and have a coach for running. I've I've Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Alex: little bit of that with vocal work as well. But ⁓ yeah, it's been it's just been really more of a passion and and ⁓ just something I've just followed throughout life. And as I got into college I, you know, I started seeking out like finding where I could lead sing in a band and getting with that group and and having fun with that. ⁓ and yeah, it's just been a a little bit of a journey. Ryan Head: That's super cool, man. I was gonna say, cause you know, ⁓ y we get all kinds of walks of life. I mean, as you know, like yes, we're all runners when we go to these group runs or we're doing races, like we're all runners for a couple of hours, whatever it is, three, four, five, six, seven, whatever hours it is. But then we all live our regular lives, right? And so I always like that's one of my favorite things to talk about on our group runs when we do them on Saturdays, is I'm always like What do you do outside of running? Because I know we're all here runners and all that, but like what what do you do? Like what's your job or what are you passionate about and stuff? And so I'm sure we'll have, you know, someone on here that's aspiring singer, or or not someone on here, but someone listening that's an aspiring singer or wants to be a part of a band or they are a part of a band. And I always like to kind of get out asked some questions around these types of things because it just it gives a little bit more context. And like you said, yes, you go seek out a coach. Alex: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Ryan Head: But, you know, especially if you're a youth, like don't be afraid to try out for choir. ⁓ go talk to your choir co your choir teacher and you know, get get asked ask the right questions. And then, you know, ask people who've gone before you. I think that's I mean, that's such a story of life in in so many ways of, you know, ask people who've done it before you. I mean, that's how I was with Wasatch my first time. I asked everybody I knew, how do you attack this race? And I'm telling you, I still do it to this day. I'll still go back to those same people and just say, what am I forgetting? What am I missing? And just get feedback. So it's a beautiful thing. So that's awesome. Well that's cool. Well dude, thanks for sharing that. That's super cool. I love that. That's definitely I didn't know that about you. So that's that's awesome. Well, we'll do ⁓ god. Alex: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well if you did if you dig if you dig a little deeper you can find some interesting stuff on on the Facebook or the YouTube channel or you know, things that are like particular to to me playing music as opposed to running, you know. So it's out there if you want to see it. I'll send you a link later if you're if you're really interested. Ryan Head: Yeah, dude. Heck yeah. I'm so interested 'cause I'm p I like music is one of my passions in life as well and super, super passionate about it. And so I'm always listening to something and so I'm gonna I dude I Alex: Yeah. And it's, you know, it's something that I knew about you that we don't talk about, but ⁓ but because you and Tim, you know, a lot of times ⁓ when you're you're finishing your runs or posting it on Strava, you know, you'll post a a song lyric or a song title or whatever, you know. And ⁓ so it's it's it's it's you can kind of you can ascertain that, yeah, that's pretty important to you, you know. And so and and every once in a while, like, yeah, there's songs that kind of nail it and I'm like, yeah, man, that's a good one, you know. Ryan Head: ⁓ yeah. Love it. I love it. I know I've like I I know some people will say, like, what's that all about? And I'm like, you know, I just got sick of just typing morning run. I just got so it was so old that I'm you I might just start putting song lyrics in this either a song I've been listening to or you know, one that just hit my mind, and I was like, you know, I'm gonna put that on playlist, and I have a billion playlists, dude. It's it's nuts, so but anyways, well, cool, dude. Let's jump into the running questions, let's let's go at this so. Alex: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's Ryan Head: Thank you for everybody being patient with us. I mean, it's just fun. This is what running is all about. It's about it's beautiful to talk to other people about other aspects of their life. I mean, obviously, this is what this podcast is about. So we'll talk about running, but it's just fun to learn more about other people and all that jazz. So, you know, the first question I kick off with every person I've had on is, you know, when did running become what it is to you now? And as I, you know, as I've said so many times before, and I'll say again, is you know. It could have been when you were in your youth, it could have been when you're a teenager, it could be you know in your adult life, maybe it was a year or two ago. it's different for every person, but when did it kind of become what it is now? Because obviously, like let's be honest, like you, and again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but you were really committed to hard rock, and I know you'll talk about what exactly you did, but he didn't stay here in Utah. That's I'm gonna leave it at that. But he was a hundred percent committed to. Alex: Yeah. Ryan Head: to sending it at Hard Rock and I was paying attention. I was watching 'cause I knew what I had a f idea of I knew what he was doing. ⁓ but it was just really, really impressive and and and strategically just ⁓ spot on. And his results are definitely warranted. But yeah, when did running become what it is to you? Alex: Mm. Yeah. ⁓ well it's interesting because ⁓ you did a really good job of yeah, sending a potential outline for this and stuff like that. And I think the way you had a worded in there is, you know, when did it become more than training? ⁓ and I was trying to think of a way to not make it sound like I'm like am acting like, well, I've done this forever kind of thing, you know? ⁓ and and I I think the way to explain it Which we'll talk about more, I'm sure, too, is is I most of the things I do I I tend to think of as like what is like the full journey look like and relationships with people or running or singing or working. I I I like playing the long game. So I like thinking about like well what what is this if I if I do this forever, like what is it like Am I am I digging deeper than I would if I just do it for a couple seasons or something? And and running to me has has really been there's been some ebbs and flows, but ⁓ but as a passion, like it it started when I was young, you know, it started before there are different moments, but it it started like sprinting around with my friends like like my buddy. And his dad was a gym teacher, so we had summers off. You know, we'd be up at their cottage, and it was a downhill sprint, like out to the lake. This is lake country in northern Wisconsin. We'd go up to their cottage up north, you downhill sprint to the lake, hit the wooden ⁓ dock, you know, where the boards bent, and you're getting like you're getting like you're on like a trampoline, you're getting some spring off of that and hammering and sprinting and diving into the lake, you know. ⁓ and and the freedom of the speed that a kid has, like, I remember that. And I still had moments where I feel that, and I think every Every runner does. ⁓ so I experienced that and I knew that I was experiencing it very young. It's a feeling that I have tried to hold on to for a long time. And I took that into middle school and high school track. ⁓ I was pretty fast by the end of high school. I was I was kind of burned out. I I didn't really want to run in college. I had a couple opportunities that I was just not, I don't know. I don't think I was mature enough to like understand that maybe I had value to that. That's how I maybe took a season or two off and then discovered. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: Trail running. ⁓ and so then that discovery of trail running, which probably happened around 2004, or because I had a really cool trail where I went to school in UW, Milwaukee, and and I really just found a lot of freedom there. ⁓ that I guess that would be my most recent re-commitment to running, ⁓ which is a long time ago now. It's 20 plus years ago, ⁓ my college days, but ⁓ But it's something that I've just like cherished and and through highs and lows and deciding do I want to train, do I wanna race? So yes I do, no I don't right now. ⁓ but throughout it all, ⁓ yeah, it's been a it's been a bit of a lifelong journey of just exploring what that movement means to me, you know, on foot. Ryan Head: That's super cool. And I get it. Like, I in a lot of ways mean you're very similar in that way because I grew up and I was just more of like a I I was more of like a football, basketball, baseball type guy. And running was always there. And I remember like I I've shared this on other episodes, but like we'd get punished in football or whatever, right? And they're like, okay, you gotta go run and you gotta go r like I remember one time, I think it was a four or five mile loop, and Everybody was like walking it and dude I was like the first guy back and I remember being like and our coaches were like, Hey, what are you doing? And I'm like, What are you talking about? And they're like, You're back. Like you shouldn't be back this fast. And I was like like I just ran and they're like and I remember being like they and they even said to They're you should travel for cross country. Why why are you playing football? And I was like, Well thanks, jerks, like thanks for telling me I shouldn't be on the football team. But it was just so funny, like it it there was so many times I think back in my youth, just like what you were saying, how there was just this love that I had for it and it just like it was amazing. And then it kind of just like it would diminish and You know, and then I was then I had my knee surgeries 'cause of football and and I was just like, running's not for me anymore, I'm never gonna do it. And then like you said, then about, you know, thirteen, fourteen years ago, I rediscover it and I've just never let go. And I'm like, I don't want to let go. Like, one, I don't wanna go through learning how to get back into running shape because that's painful all by itself. But you know, but maybe it is it maybe that is a beautiful thing to go through again because I'm like, Man, I haven't fallen out of marathon shape in a long time and And I my muscles are reminding me of that all the time. So ⁓ but it it's just ⁓ god. Alex: Yeah. Well, there's something to be said about detraining and retraining, I think, for sure. ⁓ but yeah, the I you know, I think what's interesting is I think like what I'm describing about ⁓ feeling like the joy and freedom of using your body to move and and it is it is a bit universal. ⁓ but but I think what I realized when I was younger is that there are people that like You know, maybe it's not for them and they move on. Not I mean, I'm talking about any movement though, like for like sport or joy or like just childlike athletic movement, right? Like you see people ⁓ gr Ryan Head: Sure. Alex: Away from that ⁓ and lose it. And and almost maybe, I don't know how you feel inside, but ⁓ but maybe like you they just don't do it anymore. And you're like, did you forget about it? Do you not want to do that? Do you not have time? Do you do you think that every human grows out of that when you become an adult? Like, that's just something you don't do anymore. Like, that's kind of what I used to think when I was younger, I thought. And I and I remember when I was younger thinking like. I I'm committed not to growing out of ⁓ Of the ability to move like a kid whenever I want to, you know? And that has slowly like evolved into different things, predominantly, which is running. But I I I I grew up swimming and paddling and kayaking and biking and like and fishing and hunting and all these things that were really based in being able to move. And and that's just it's been, I guess to me, it's like, well, I yeah, I just wanna like see if I can have that relationship my whole life, you know, whatever that is, you know. So if I live to 80. like I still want to be like getting out and birding and hiking and backpacking and running and like just exploring, you know, because that connectedness that you get from it ⁓ is is pretty special, you know, and it continues to be special. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well, it's funny you say this. So two things one you said to me a years ago, I remember the year, it was twenty twenty-four, and then what you just said barely, kind of both of these tie in. So there was one time, I don't even know if you remember this, but it it was in twenty twenty-four, I was training for Wasatch, and I was running along up to or I was running down from Ben Lomond and you were running up Ben Lomond. Alex: Yeah, I remember him. Ryan Head: And I remember being and we we met a we saw each other. It was Sunday morning, afternoon, whatever it was. And I remember we just started chatting, me and you, and you were just like and and we talked about a lot of stuff. And and and again, hopefully I don't slaughter what you said, but I remember what I interpreted that you said to me as you're like, remember to enjoy this. Like, yes, hundred milers are difficult. Yes, hundred milers are you gotta be thinking and strategic and all this, but don't forget to enjoy this. Like Don't take this for granted. Like, yes, it's fun to go fast, but enjoy the moment and really try to embrace being out there. And then, so you said that to me, and then what you said just barely as we started this off, you talked about empowerment. And I truly believe I never experienced empowerment in my whole life until I became a runner. I really don't think I ever experienced it. Like, I always like, I don't know if it was like Sorry, I'm I'm w I'm supposed to be interviewing you, but like but it's like what but what you said there really hit D because I never ever felt like, man, I'm good enough or I can do this or like you know I can accomplish crazy insane things that, you know, most people tell you, don't what are you doing? Like I mean, right? Like Alex: Yeah, great man. Ryan Head: In our world it's normal to run hundred milers and and fifty K's and whatever. It's normal between you and me. We can talk about it. But you go to you go talk to people on the street or someone in the community and they're like, You guys are nuts. Like, why would you even consider this? And I'm like, but you don't know what it's brought to my life. And I don't I there's a song by Blinkway too that says can't it the title is called Can't Go Back and like it it hits so deep with me 'cause I'm like, I can't I can't go back now to what I was. Like That past Ryan has sailed. Like, I can't go back to who he is anymore because I found this new version of me that just challeng like challenges himself, loves to push himself, loves to do stuff that, like, yeah, there's a chance I'm gonna fail, and I'm okay with that. And I think that's beautiful. And so, anyways, where I'm going with all this is like I love that you brought up this empowerment thing and Like, I would love for you to share with us, like, what does that mean to you exactly? Because obviously it is like you've been living this for a long time and maybe it's taken different forms, but yeah, what does that look like to you? And and like for our listeners, maybe someone on here right now is like, I don't feel like I'm good enough. And I don't I feel like a piece of crap and I can't accomplish anything in my life. And what would you share with someone like that? That's like, how how do you become to that point where they're they're like Alex. I mean I I I'm not trying to teach you anything, but become this badass runner that can go and do some amazing things again without giving away what you did this year. So yeah, dude, why would what would you say? Alex: Well I think I think the you know the funny thing is and I it it I I think is in general, I think universally this is true for everybody is like, you know, those people that feel like they're like nothing and they don't deserve to show up to a start line or go to work or like, you know, they belittle themselves in their heads. unfortunately I think as a society, I think it's something that like we all battle with, you know. And so I guess first and foremost is like I I I feel that way often, all the time. You know, like I I I probably one of the reasons, you know, again, one of the reasons I grew up singing, I think remember middle school years were particularly darker for me. And and ⁓ I would hang out a lot of times in my room and have the little boom box, the CD player going and I'd be singing, you know. And and to me, it was both a way to like escape, but it was also a way to like find something I was passionate about and like and just be kind of in that zone, you know. And I think so I guess first and foremost. Ryan Head: Yeah, we all do. Yeah. Alex: is like I I think many people deal with those feelings of inadequacy and self-doubt and and just kind of beating themselves up and I certainly do and I on a daily basis kind of have to to to work with myself on those things often. ⁓ but If there's something that I do ⁓ okay or well, ⁓ is that I dream and I and I and I dream a lot. ⁓ and I I daydream and I do all these things that ⁓ when I was young, I got the feeling that adults maybe thought it wasn't worthwhile to do those things when you get older. ⁓ but I committed to never stopping daydreaming and like thinking about cool things I wanted to do or who I wanted to be and things I wanted to work with on with myself and and and milestone. And goals for myself. And ⁓ and and I carve out I guess if we talk about hard rock, I I carve out ⁓ decent amounts of time to focus on those things ⁓ because I don't really know why, besides passion, like they it's it's you know. We'll talk about the tangible things that I do or that you do or that other people do, but I really would encourage people to read and like read about adventures and read about things you're interested in. And if you're into walking or birding or ultra marathons or like climbing Mount Everest, like if you read about these things, or I guess consume content on social media these days, like you'll see that there are many examples of ordinary people doing crazy Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: Crap all the time, and it's super inspiring and it's wild, you know. Ultra running for me. Like, people say, like, what race ⁓ do you want to do? And and most trail runners these days are kind of like, What? Why would you want to do it? It's bad water for me. Like, I remember reading Nat Geo articles in middle school or high school or something, and the shoes were so crappy back then that you had to run down the white line. If you weren't running on the white line on the side of the road. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: At Badwater 135, which is 135 miles, like mostly on pavement, through the lowest lowest place in the 48, hottest place in the lower 48, up to up to one of the tallest places in the low in the ⁓ lower 48, Mount Whitney, which it used to run to, it doesn't anymore. But point is is that I was reading, you know, about like, wow, like these guys' shoes are melting if they're not running on the white line. Like I wanna do the race because of that, you know? ⁓ which is like, I don't know, all other statistics aside, I was like, I can't believe that these people are running in there and melting their shoes. Like that's something I wanna try, you know? ⁓ so to just to round it out is I think Whatever your inclination is of something that you has thought was cool, it's a build to maybe get to where you eventually want to go. But ⁓ can you find the adventure in the everyday activities that might slowly start to build and take you to those those dreams, you know? And along the way you slot in these other things. Like a lot of have a lot of people have the weekend run. For them, it might just be a long run leading to a marathon, but that might also be their weekend adventure. That's their excursion, that's their piece of will. Wilderness, like no doubt you were doing that when I saw you coming down from Ben Lomond. Like, you have to train for Wasatch, but are you just out there doing it only because you have to train for Wasatch? Like, no, even if you don't realize it, you probably signed up for Wasatch so that you would be committed to having these weekend adventures every weekend. That's the excuse that gets an adult out there having fun, challenging themselves and growing, you know. And and for me, I've always been very good at finding excuses of things to train for. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: for so I can keep getting out there and having adventures, you know, stuff that fills my cup, right? Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Alex: So I yeah, I don't know. Round it out is like, yeah, it's like I these bat these things of inadequacy, it's like, you know, keep battling those thoughts because you also know that you have this good version of you, this version of you that you believe in. So you have to learn and I need to learn and we all need to learn to keep, you know, realizing that those negative thoughts and voices are there, but but learn how to cope with them, how to tell ⁓ Hey, it's time to be quiet now, you know, and if you can't do it yourself, like go get some therapy, you know. I I I go and and Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And chat with professionals on these things, ⁓ you know, cyclically through my adult life. And and they've helped me get through too. So ⁓ yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, beautifully said, and I and I a hundred percent agree with you. ⁓ you know, we all deal with those personal demons and in whatever way it is, right? And I think that's kind of been one of the coolest things that I've I've come to know about ultra running is I've met so many people that ultra running is how they silence these demons, if you will, right? And it's how they they attack ⁓ And and I mean, by no means is and I I guess I should rewind back on that because it's like e everybody has ⁓ Right. And I wouldn't say one's more important than the other or more severe than another, because just because someone dr deals with, you know, they're an alcoholic versus someone who just thinks that they're a piece of crap, how how can I say that I know the severity of that versus one versus another? It's it's impossible to really call that out. But I've met so many people that they're like, This is how I silence the demons. This is how I I find the best version of myself. And I'm like, That's beautiful. Like I love that this this is how you do it. And so you said this so beautifully, and I I think that's That's the key is finding finding your why. And like you said, in the end, like it is an adventure. And I I say to everybody, like, to me, getting up every morning and training, like, I love it. I I know a lot of people don't like it, but I I personally love getting up and getting going for my runs because one, it it it sets me straight for the day. Two, it's my morning coffee, if you will. It wakes me up, I can get going and Then I'm I'm firing on all cylinders for that day. ⁓ but it just it's also like it's I I know it gets me ready for my races, but my r I always look at the races like that's the that's kind of like the fun of it. The training was the part that was tough because you're doing it day in, day out, and a lot of times it doesn't it doesn't have any can you still hear me? Alex: Yep, gotcha. Ryan Head: ⁓ okay, cool. Yeah, someone just called me and it went weird. So sorry about that. Okay, we'll rewind here. Anyways, but the one the one thing that I love about training is just ⁓ like to me it's just been it helps me refocus, it helps me understand like what I'm trying to do and what I'm trying to accomplish. But also I just find so much joy in it. I love pushing myself, I like how it just makes me a different person, but again. Alex: No works. Ryan Head: Doing the races, like that's just the cherry on top. That's just the that's just the best part at the end. And so I don't know, for me, that's that's how I've always looked at it. But I again I just remember seeing you and you said that to me and it I've never forgot it. I've like after I saw you on Ben Loman coming down and I was just like, dude, that was like I needed to hear that because sometimes you get going and you're doing these runs and 90 degree temperatures and you're like, What am I doing with my life? Like, or you trip or or something like that. You're like, I hate this, this is fun, like Then you're like, no, this is part of the journey. That's this is part of the the adventure. So no, I appreciate you saying that. So let's let's do it, man. I want to jump to the fun part of that about this because I've been dying to ask you about hard rock. So ladies and gentlemen, Alex Alex did hard rock this year and he did really, really good with it. But before we jump into like all the you know, before we jump into the actual race, I'd love for you to tell tell everybody a little bit more of what you did. ⁓ in preparation for because I think it just tells a different story about who you are and just w how committed you are to just what you're trying to accomplish and what you're trying to be. I think it's I think it's impressive. I mean again it's it's all I always say people are always watching, you know? People are always paying attention to what others are doing. And if you never think someone's watching, like you're wrong. Like it doesn't matter who you are. And so you know I'm always watching. I'm always trying to see what people are doing. And I'm like, dude, it was impressive. So yeah. Dude, walk us through hard rock. I'm I'm so so interested and excited about this. Alex: Yeah, well thanks man. ⁓ I yeah, it's ⁓ It's an interesting thing because I I don't know, like the negative voice in my head is like, Well, you're kind of extreme, dude. Like, you know, like what you did there is it's not extreme in some circles, you know. And so, but I guess I guess the point of that is like maybe there's a little teeny background on like what the Hard Rock 100 is and and maybe maybe how ⁓ people in our circles like interpret it, right? Like so hard rock is this hundred mile race in the San Juans in Colorado. It's it's very high elevation. the average elevation that you are at over the, you know, average over the course of it is you're you're just above 11,000 feet. It's got 33,000 feet of climbing, which is a lot. There are a bunch of other races that have that much, but ⁓ but that combined with the elevation, you get over 14,000 foot once. You do a 14er called Handy's Peak. ⁓ it's a it's a serious high altitude event. you can't just get into it ⁓ unless you're the world's world's best. The race director gives himself six picks called Dale's Picks, because that's his name. But you have to run these qualifiers for this thing. ⁓ there's a ton of demand for this. Race. So the average wait time or the time it takes people to get in these days is somewhere between like seven and twelve years. Like that's the average it takes. By the time you get into this thing, you're you're like a decade into being a different human, you know. ⁓ your cells have all replaced, right? That happens once every seven years or something like that. ⁓ but ⁓ so it's this journey and ⁓ Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alex: And it's this special event, like you have these people winning this race. It's it's thought to be one of the toughest in the world. But even the even the champs, like They're not running the uphills. Like it's these massive climbs where there are poles out and you're climbing. And and I'm a climber. I really enjoy climbing. ⁓ I used to be a really fast climber. I'm now like an aging climber. And you kind of get into this race and and you go, ⁓ man, like I at least for me, I was like this. I knew to some extent this race is built for me, you know? And ⁓ and and and the most positive voice in your head that's still rational, and this is like a thing to be concerned about, is like I always wanna like be the best version of myself. But I always want to understand or be honest with myself. Like like if if I don't want to just be this person that's like, I'm going to like win that thing, but like there's no chance in hell I would ever win that thing. Like I but but finding that balance of going like man this race is built for me. Like I Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: I can do top ten here. Like I think I could do top five here. ⁓ so so to lead into what you're saying, like, yeah, I you get into the race in December. you know, if your name gets pulled in the lottery, you put in the lottery a couple months before that. The race is in ⁓ early July. ⁓ I knew I might get into the race. I had a pretty weird foot injury going on that was pretty serious. I hadn't, you know, before Hard Rock, which was July 10th this year, I hadn't raced in a year and a half. ⁓ and that's because in September, sometime after, like really it was November when I figured out what it was, November of 2024, ⁓ I realized like, man, I have this full tear in my planter plate on the bottom of my foot. And every time I put it on the ground, like it's very serious. ⁓ so the next, you know, it's it's a full Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: Whatever it's a full year before I get into hard rock, November of 2025. ⁓ but I'd already pre-planned this. Like I knew if hard rock was for me and I could run it well, like I knew when I got in I was gonna do what the pros do, which is be out there for about four weeks. And that's to acclamize, acclimatize to that elevation, right? There's two ways, there's two theories of thought on it. You go out a month ahead, or you go out two days before and you just run it before like your body tanks or whatever, right? ⁓ and for most races, I would just go out a couple days before. Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Alex: four because I'm not a pro athlete like but for hard rock which is this bucket list event you know it's it's it's I don't know if it's an apex of a person's career but it it might, you know, depending on the races you're looking towards, like it's up there. And so I think this is very important to my psyche and to people who want to do things. It wasn't a split decision to go to Hard Rock a month before and live out there. It was a year's build of like I knew if I was still a fit athlete and I had potential to to do what what Alex could do, what I could do for me, not like winning the race or whatever. ⁓ that then I was gonna let myself ⁓ try to reach my potential. And part of trying to reach your potential at a high altitude race is being out there. And so it it's weird though, dude. Like this is this is where it gets weird is like it touches everything. Like I have to have a job that'll let me be gone for a month. I have to have a spouse and a partner that will let me be gone for a month. And none of those things like happen overnight. Like I, I, I it in I have always Built those things to be able to do that type of lifestyle if I wanted to. ⁓ maybe in the hopes when I was younger, of like, ooh, maybe I'll be a pro athlete and then people just let me do that and I'll get paid to do that. But in lieu of that happening as a sub-elite or whatever you want to call it, I go, all right, well, I still have to, I still have to be able to try and do these things that the pros do. So I have to have a job that lets me do that. Like I have to like build confidence in my boss to allow them to let me do that, whatever job I'm working at the time. I have to like show my sponsor. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: spouse that I'm committed enough to this that like it's not just me taking a little vacation for myself. So anyways, build for hard rock. ⁓ I brought a coach on board. It was amazing. That was cool. Things went well through the training cycle and that led into me You know, moving through these pieces of the master plan that included buying a little travel trailer, little pop-up hard-sided travel trailer, and and loading that up with my little Tacoma and pulling that out to Silverton, Colorado on like June eighth of this year. ⁓ and so I was out there for the month. ⁓ training, exploring, having a ball, ⁓ but really putting the final pieces together for this race. And that includes something that a lot of runners these days called soft rock. Soft rock is basically a fast pack or backpack version of the hard rock course. So you take three or four days to explore, you know, 20, 18 to 30 mile sections of the course at a time. It's four big efforts or five, depending on how many days you do it in a row, but but before you start to bring your training back down for a taper, you see the whole course, you really understand it. It's the first time I had ever seen a full hundred mile course before running it. I've run like superior 100 twice. So you go back, you do better the second time. You understand how that works, right? Like because you've done this with wasatch, but but to see the course in its, in its totality before the first time you go out and race it was like unbelievably huge. So ⁓ yeah it was a it was an interesting and a bit of a special year. for me that I was able to just cash in some ultra-running karma and ⁓ spend a month out in this high altitude place before running the race. Ryan Head: That's awesome. One thing I want to touch on just because you you elaborated on it and and I'll I'll go a little bit further with it is you talked about having it all come together and even if it is a local race, ⁓ local hundred, right, these these races take a lot. ⁓ like you said, you have to have a spouse, a partner, ⁓ if you have kids like I do, you know, kids that are understanding of why you're want to do this. ⁓ it takes a crew, right? It it always takes a crew. So you have these pacers, you have this crew chief, you know, you have these people that are helping you along the way as well. And again, you're coordinating with them, you're working with them, you're like, listen, this is how I want to accomplish this race. So there's there's all this work that goes into it. And and I love that you're like, dude, and then like there's your job too, right? Like, especially with your like this is this is kind of your your pinnacle, if you will, maybe, maybe not. I mean I still think you're gonna do some crazy stuff before it's all said and done. But but like it still is a big, you know, big ask. And so, you know, for you to go out there and like you said, you were out there for a month before and your training. Th there there's a lot that has to kinda come together to make this all work and and it was just really cool to see that. And I remember just thinking like if he's out there, it ⁓ it's all come together, he's making it all work and Alex: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: You know, and and it is a lot. It's a lot. And and kind of in a lot of ways our our spouses, our partners are kind of those unsung heroes that they're just they're they're so chill. They're willing to work with Yana. And my wife understands it just, you know, like yours is that she's like, I know you love this and you're passionate about it and you know, I wanna I wanna help you ach achieve your dreams. And and likewise I do the same with her for her her her dreams that she has, but but it's crazy. It's just the amount of stuff that goes into this and then, you know, you're out there, you're pushing all this. But you know, the other thing I want to touch on that I just I find so fascinating is I remember when you were in your boot and I remember you being like, yeah, and you're like, yeah, I've got some issues going on, and I'm like, ⁓ dude, are you kidding? Like I know you're so fast, and like I can only imagine how much of a struggle this is for you. you know, like one question I'll just throw at you before we go further with hard rock is, you know, how how did you cope with that? Because For someone at your your level, right? And again, I know you're probably like, well, I'm sub elite. I think you're elite, but I get what you're trying to say, and I you're trying to be somewhat humble and that's awesome of you. But but like, how did you cope with that? Because I think that can be sometimes a little bit difficult to be like, you know, I know what I'm capable of and now 'cause again, injuries, as you know, this is just par for the course and it doesn't get any better if you're listening to this. ⁓ if you're like, I haven't had an injury ever, or I've only had one or two, ⁓ Father Time's undefeated, so Alex: Yeah. Ryan Head: Be ready, more more's coming. So but yeah, how did you cope with that, man? Alex: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it you know it's a it it's There is a little special thing that I have ⁓ that it it's weird. Like there's a lot of times this is a negative thing actually about me. When everything there's a lot of times when everything's going right and It feels like boring to me, I guess. And then my negative voice is really loud. And like there's nothing like if everything is just going smooth and it's going right, like there's nothing for me to work for really or towards. And and a lot of times those times are really tough for me. And that actually parlays into like why it was so helpful for me to have a running coach this year. We'll talk about that later if you want. But In times of adversity, when there's like something to solve, ⁓ my mind is particularly engaged. And so I did have some trying times. I did struggle with what like maybe my identity as a runner would become ⁓ with this injury. but I was also really motivated to find a way through. you know, to work with what was happening. ⁓ and I and I have been fortunate enough to learn many times over just from injuries I've had or from watching other people get injured or for watching the older generation that somehow begins to to to or or not begins, ⁓ somehow continues to be active. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: this little secret that I think makes a lot of difference. And it's just like it's the difference between thinking that you are going to have an injury And heal from it and be the person you were before to the real understanding that, like injuries, real ones, they stick with you for life. They become a part of your personality. And the only way through is to work with it, you know? And so, so for a while it was pretty depressing just to figure out what the injury was, because it's a it's a tear in the pad on your foot, and it's right where that front kind of ball your foot bones touchdown. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: It's super painful. ⁓ It can lead to this thing where your toe floats up and stays like this, hammer toe, you know, for life. And I I saw three surgeons and they all said the same thing. Like, well, we need to, we need to get in there and we need to like do some a decent little piece of surgery in there, you know. And while we're at it, we got to do some other things with like with what your toe is doing because you got bunion stuff going on. So we need to break that. We need to do some cuts there. And ⁓ and they all said the same thing. ⁓ and and ⁓ and I totally believe. in surgery and I have had it on my hand and ⁓ and and maybe knock on wood I I might have some surgeries again in the future but ⁓ so it was tough figuring out what it was and it was it it it was tough initially going and talking to doctors and having them tell you what the solution is from their point of view But like that's it. Like they weren't like listening to me. They weren't really considering what I do athletically for a living. Like it was just like, ⁓ you got that? Well, then we give you this, you know? And and and it seemed extreme, you know? ⁓ so and I'm pretty extreme guy, but it seemed extreme. It seemed like, man, you're gonna go in there and slice and dice some stuff, and I'm gonna be like off my foot for a long time. a ton of muscle tone in my leg, like ⁓ and and you start researching, you're like, man, like, well, so how do hundred mile runners, you know, ultra runners, like, how do they perform after they have the surgery, you know? And and it's like, I don't know. We like mainly do this on like 65-year-olds, you know, but like they go back to like, I don't know, some of them like play pickleball again and some of them like go on walks again. So like it it seems to work out. So that was really tough, like this period of trying to identify what was going on and how to make the right decision on what to do. ⁓ but it yeah, it I guess it comes back to like I I ended up like not making a gut reaction. I ended up finding a bit of a community, like reading online, like runners that have experienced this. Like, ⁓ I ended up Talking to this amazing dude that's right here in South Ogden. His name's Ben. He has a company called Perfect Feet. ⁓ he makes custom insoles. He he makes like I think all the in insoles for the the MLS team, the real in Salt Lake City. He does a lot for the jazz. He makes these insoles for NFL players all around the country. ⁓ but when I met this guy, ⁓ he was the first guy that like Ryan Head: Nice. Alex: was listening to like what I do and what I want to continue to do. And ⁓ and began to come up with a plan for me to try some things to try and work with my foot, right? And ⁓ and and so anyways, I had some dark moments in there, but I had to find some people that I could just like express what was going on and see if there was some solution that would allow me to be the person I I still wanted to be. And ⁓ and I found that in Ben at Perfect Feet and huge shout out to him and I'm saying that because he's been making custom insoles for me. ⁓ like I don't have any sponsors, but ⁓ but you'll find my picture on the wall at Ben's place because he does work with athletes ⁓ that that that have these dreams and goals and and helps find these one-on-one ways to kind of like keep moving them forward, you know? And ⁓ and so Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: So he makes these insoles for me that really, really changed things for me and made me realize you know what? It's not maybe just a one-way path through this thing that's gonna really not just take me out of racing for the year and a half that I was in, like it was gonna like just take me out of activity for. six months to a year, you know, and maybe it wouldn't have been that long, but it was like it was serious. And and I found a path forward of like of yeah, I'm not running as much. I focused on mountain biking heavy for the next year. I ride every Sunday with a good group of friends. ⁓ so so to answer is like find some community and then also like pivot. Like realize that like, you know Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: Do I run? Like is my passion just to like put one foot in front of the other, like out there and then do races? It's not really. Like I what's what is the core of why I do ⁓ what I do. And that is I love movement. I love getting outside of nature, immersing myself, seeing these wild moments. ⁓ and is there a way I can still do that and I can still heal at the same time and maybe come back to doing what I love? ⁓ so so there were definitely were some moments in there. If my wife is watching, she'll be like, Yeah, he was pretty good with it, but man, he was a dick some of the time too, because like he couldn't figure out what to do with himself. So those moments were there. ⁓ but ⁓ Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: But I guess pivoting, like like reflecting on what it is you do this for. ⁓ and also like when you look at ultras, ⁓ I think I might have broke up for a second, but when you look at ultras, like these challenging experiences, what you go through with an injury is kind of the same journey, you know? It's like you're going to do a hundred miles miler to be successful, to strive, to push yourself and to push yourself through. these moments of doubt, you know? And an injury is just a much more real world version of that, you know? And ⁓ and if you work with it that way, Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: You know, the injury actually might be the whole thing for me. It might be the success story that I heard at hard rock. Like it's a real world, it it put in jeopardy not just finishing a race, it put in jeopardy these goals for longevity and movement, say through hiking a long trail at 65 or 70, that I have in my mind things I want to continue to do. It put all that at stake of like, you might not do that, dude. ⁓ so sit back and and study and do your best to find a way to do it, because that could really be what's at Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: stake, not just not finishing a race. And so ⁓ so I did kind of work my way through that. And ⁓ I don't know. It's tough. I don't have the answers, but like rely on your friends, your family. Don't make a gut decision if it if is maybe a surgery and surgery might be the right option. It even might be the right option for a guy like me in the future still. ⁓ but it wasn't then. And and it's it's it just takes a bit of patience and self-reflecting and and and realizing that Those moments are part of your own individual journey. ⁓ and I'll feel that in my foot. I the star tissues in there, I feel it every day. ⁓ but it's it it's actually a bit I'm not proud of injuring myself, but I'm proud of working through it. And these are like like I don't have any tattoos, but I have like a couple different tears in different parts of my body, you know? And I have a broken collarbone and like they all carry stories and healing and stuff with them, and like those are my tattoos, you know. And If I can find a way to move forward successfully in racing with those things, to me, it just proves that like I understand myself ⁓ in the way that I pride myself on, which is intimately, you know. How do you get from point A to point B with you individually, you know? It's different than how you do it, Ryan, you know, like it's both do it differently. So yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love it. And that's, you know, the reason why I asked that question is, you know, everybody does do it differently, but I love that you give examples. And, you know, as I'm I'm sitting here listening to you, I love one, you went to work. You went to work studying this. You went, you were deep diving in this. You're probably looking online, you're you're reading Reddit stuff, you're you're asking friends, you're talking to people, you're going to clinics. I love that. I love that you're like, dude, I I really started doing the research. I went to work. I want to find out what's going on. Two, you relied on your community. You relied on the people that you trust. And you know, you're you're talking to your wife, I'm sure. You're taught you're getting out, you're like, you know what? I can't run, but I'm gonna bike. I'm gonna find a way through this. I'm gonna do this. I remember thinking sometimes a little side tag. I remember thinking sometimes, I don't think he has foot sealed up. I think he's still in his boot and he's out riding bikes. I could be completely wrong by that, but I remember thinking, I swear I saw him in his boot just barely, but anyways, I I thought it was awesome. I'm like, you know what? Alex: Well well the thing for me, the the thing for me, just to just to anecdote that, right, is like it it it took understanding what I had to do, you know? So like those things put i it's all individual. Those things could seem reckless or weird to somebody, but like for me it was like I had to I had to not flex that joint, like that that final bone there on the ball of your foot before it goes into your your toe. I had to isolate that because that tendon was torn, right? So once you figure out that you you can get like a carbon plate in your shoe and ideally you should be wearing a boot during the day. So so you're you're you're not flexing any of that, but like, ⁓ man, I could move the mounting point of my shoe on my bike and I and I could move it back so that I wasn't flexing over it. And then I could put a carbon plate in the shoe that limited the flexion there, right? And then because if if I clip into bike pedals, you know, you you have circular motion because you can pull up too when you're clicked in. You can go, all right, I'm committing to not push down as hard with this foot either. But I can still do this and I can still have the cardio going on, right? Or what would have been the next move was like, I'm gonna spend more time in the pool and do more swimming. And that was a goal of mine that I kind of skipped. I don't know why. It's like hard to get to the pool, but ⁓ but I guess the point is, is it is very ⁓ personal to you and Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And I think there there was one way to do it. There was get surgery, get in a boot, and just wait for the body inactively to like heal itself. Or there was like, all right, well, like, are there like these other more they're harder to accommodate, but it's like, ⁓ yeah, can I still ride the bike and not flex that thing? Like, can I do that? Can I not put pressure on it? ⁓ and I can ⁓ like I don't know, I had a cousin who always would say this when he got older. annoyed the heck out of me. It's like, how'd you do that, man? And then he'd be like, very carefully. You know, you almost put it in quotation marks. And I'm like, that's the stupidest answer I ever heard. Like very carefully, you know. ⁓ but basically I was finding ways to very carefully continue ⁓ my cardiac output, right? Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Alex: Which was part of the game because I was like, I want blood flow to get down there and heal this tendon. Like you don't really get blood flow to tendons, but crossing my fingers that I'm doing the best job I can to get blood there, you know? And so yeah. Total sub no. Sorry about that. Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, it's just c Yeah, no no, I love it. I love it. And I just it's cool to see that you went to work. You didn't just like, ⁓ well, you know, and I get it, we all and the and there's so many factors that go into, you know, when we go through hard times, but you're but but you touch on something that I really love because you said it perfectly and we're gonna get into we're gonna get into hard rock, but I can't tell you many times I've had the exact same experience that you're talking about with Wasatch, with bear, with buffalo With Scout Mountain, it's all happened, you know. I'm out there, something bad starts to happen, whatever it is, kidney stones, heat exhaustion, wasp stings, you name it. We all have and my my the things that have happened to me on race Yeah, but yeah, the but but right every one of us has our own things, these battles that we have, right? Like I've I've had guests on who've had Alex: And also sounds very painful. Ryan Head: Hemorrhoids, right? I mean as gross as that is, like and and then I have other ones that are dealing with whatever, right? We have all these things and so everybody has their thing. But you have two choices. You can either give up and just be like, I'm done. Alex: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: And and again, it's not life or death, really. And at times you gotta be careful, you gotta do the smart thing and whatnot. Or you go to work and you say, Okay, like I'm gonna I'm gonna troubleshoot this. We're gonna cue it, we're gonna f we're gonna go through and we're gonna figure out how to not only finish this race, but still do a pretty good job at it and just get through. And sometimes the best you can do is just say, I'm gonna survive for a hundred miles and just get across that finish line and heaven knows I've had more of those than not, but you know, it it's part of the deal and so Anyways, without further ado, take us through take us through ⁓ Hard Rock, man. I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I was watching the live stream, I was always looking for you. ⁓ it was very comical watching the the live stream because you had a lot of people who had no idea what Ultrarunning is about. And so many people. One thing I just had to share is I still remember Tar Tara Dower climbing one of the mountains. She was right by you. I know she was racing not not not necessarily racing you, but you guys were right by each other there in the top fift yeah, top fifteen, and I remember she was climbing, I forget what mile it was, but she was climbing a really tough ⁓ part, and I know you were ahead of her at this time. And Alex: Yeah, we were by each other for a while. Yeah. Ryan Head: People were on there like, Yep, her race is over, it's it's game over for and I'm sitting here laughing because I'm like, None of you know what this is like. This is a steep climb that she's got and and and she was a little wobbly, but she gets up there, hits the climb, and then she just books it down. And I'm like, see, all of you people don't even know what you're talking about. Like, there's always gonna be hard times. ⁓ wait, go ahead. Alex: Yeah, yeah. Well I think that's I was gonna say I think that was what's what's makes it fun for people to watch, you know, is like it's it is a bit weird what's going on out there and and ⁓ if you haven't been through it, like yeah, it's hard to understand and it's you're calling it just like a football game. You're like, Yeah, dude's washed up, you know, or like dude's gonna come back or whatever and so it's it I guess it's part of the entertainment of it, you know, and ⁓ Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: But but it's fun to see for sure. And like Tara's a beast, and she had run Western States two weeks before. So ⁓ she was in no way like a hundred percent rated a rock. So she's out there just grinding out a a challenge at at that's a level above what I was doing. Like I was out there pampering myself for a month and getting ready for the area, and she was out getting ready and stuff too. But she had just raced two weeks earlier, this crazy race. So ⁓ yeah, it's interesting, man. Everybody, you know what's cool about Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Alex: running is it's like a team sport and yet it's very individual. Everybody's running their own individual challenges and ⁓ and hard rock was a cool day for me and it it's ⁓ it's funny you start off in this little town Silverton and and ⁓ The races on the 10th. I I was there, you know, July fourth, you're out there and they have a parade and they invite all the hard rock runners to march in the parade. And I was out holding a hard rock banner and walking down the street with the guy that ended up winning it for the third time. ⁓ you know, Ludovic Pomerey, who's like this this beast of a runner. He's a he's he's unbelievable. ⁓ so like it's this weird little community event and some of the world's best are there and and but everybody that's there, what's special about hard rock is everybody that's there Ryan Head: Yep. Alex: is ⁓ is everybody at any race is inspirational. Everybody at Hard Rock is tried, true, and tested inspirational. Because it takes seven to twelve years to get into this race. They've all done these hard rock qualifiers, the same ones that you're doing, Ryan, you know, ⁓ ⁓ they've all done ⁓ many times. And so ⁓ that is more important later on in my story because ⁓ it's part of what kept me going. But yeah we start the race Friday morning. it's pretty cool. ⁓ there's a lot of fanfare next to you, but all things considered 147 runners or something like that start the race. It's not like it's this crazy like high energy thing. You're out there early morning, the race starts at six AM Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: You're on this dusty street, ⁓ concerned about the smoke because there were wildfires in the area, a couple big ones. And and you're playing out the course in your head. And and for me, you know, I I knew it was very important to not run too fast. And and historically I run too fast. ⁓ I'm pretty decent at 50 mile races because I can just go out fast. I can die at mile 42 like hard and I can hold on to the end. It doesn't work that way for me in 100. Ryan Head: Yeah. Ha ha Alex: And so I knew, you know, if I might, if it might take me years to get into this race again, I I knew one of the keys to success was going to be to go out at a sustainable pace for me. So race starts and you talk with some friends and you're running down the street and people are cheering you on. And and it doesn't seem like you climb up this little hill out of town towards like, I don't know why I'm holding a pen, but I'm holding a pen. Climb up this little teeny hill, and they got a statue ⁓ like of Jesus up there. It it's like the same statue. statue that they have like in Rio, like that big one. ⁓ I can't remember what they call it. But ⁓ anyways, you're running up towards this this statue and and Ryan Head: Yep. Yep. Brasillium. Yeah. Alex: In any like you would it it it's like the grade of like starting the Bent Loman trail and you would start that thing like running, you know. But at like at ten thousand feet, you're like everybody's hiking it, you know. So like right out of the gate, you're like hiking. You get up to flat cross a river and one of the things I did to slow myself down, I started with two bottles of water. It was like eleven miles to the first ⁓ water station, but I had a little filter on me in a bottle too, and I thought, man, at this first big river cross, I'm gonna stop and I'm gonna like I need three bottles, but I'm not gonna leave with three. Ryan Head: Sure. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Alex: I'm gonna filter my water there. Everybody's gonna be racing. I'm gonna do that. So I was like doing these little things to like say, hey, just like chill. Just like do your thing. ⁓ if you have any energy on the back end of the race, that might be when things are like fun for you. ⁓ but even though you're doing that, like you're trying to slow down a fast horse or something, you know, you still are kind of like pushing too. So you're sweating and stuff and and racing and It was just fun. Came into the first aid station. There's you know, I think I was I think I was tenth then. and what's weird about this race is there's enough fanfare that there's people out there with cameras and they're live streaming it and you hear noise and you're like, ⁓ that's like a drone hanging out up here, you know, like They're doing, you know, like don't take a pee now. Like you can hear the drone thing. ⁓ you don't want to be do that. And ⁓ so that was like fun to experience, but but just staying calm and climbing and but hard rock's weird. There's like five or six just huge climbs, you know, and that's what the race is composed of. It's like climb for eight to ten miles, descend hard, you know, like climb steep descent that's like scary. ⁓ and do it again and do it again. ⁓ so things went well. and Ryan Head: Ha. Alex: You go up and you do this really awesome climb. You see this lake with an island in the background. There's a lot of cool pictures of it. It's called Island Lake. And you you you descend off of this pass ⁓ that's just stree and steep. And you see this footage a lot with the race too. And it's like The first time you do it, even race like you hesitate and you go like, Man, like I could break a leg on this thing, or I could like slice myself up. And then because it's the on race day, there's people that have hiked up to it. And they're like, they're cheering you on, but it inside your head too, you're like, man, they like They're looking for carnage too, man. Like they're probably like they they're wanting the excitement of seeing like these people slide down these rocky scree things, you know. And and you get a little lower on it. Like the first part, there's no rocks covering it. It's just like sheer dirt that's too steep to hold the boulders anymore. And it's like scary. ⁓ so you're kind of like got your poles out and like just trying not to roll down and make a mockery of yourself. And people are like, yeah, dude, they're cheering at you and stuff. And then you hit these like these scree. Boulders and stuff, and you you got these Hoka shoes on, right? You got these wide shoes, and and if you if you play around it, you're you're like stepping into it like it's like moon rocks, and you're surfing these rocks down. it's just cool, it's pretty, pretty extreme. ⁓ special for me, you know. You come into that next aid station. We're like, I guess we're two aid stations in now. You come to Chapman, which is after the descent of the first big climb, and I'm still hanging, so there's like there's cameras and stuff. But my coach Andy was there. my coach Andy Reed is he's out of Canmore, ⁓ up in up in up outside of Toronto, like he's in in Canada in in the Banff range essentially. and so he was crewing me early on. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alex: At a couple places that I didn't have Nicole drive to. ⁓ so he's he's cheering me on. And he was just out there by happenstance because he'd run western two weeks ago. And he had another athlete coach, ⁓ David Ayala, who ended up taking third overall. ⁓ so he was out, he was able to kind of crew two people. So it just made sense for him to be there. So that was special for me. A lot of times you run through those those aid stations, or at least I do, ⁓ and I'll have Nicole meet me at like just a few of the majors, and then you just run through and you self-support. But Already from the beginning it was special. So running to Chapman, he kind of he kind of pumps me up. He's he's feeling good too. He's feeling like, man, this guy's like in the top ten. This is this is really fun. Keep it calm, keep it collected, push on, you know. go climb this next crazy climb. Sun's hot. But there's some cloud cover, which is like almost like a little karmically, like you feel like, yes, somebody likes us today because they're like they're putting clouds in the air, you know? And so ⁓ thank, thank whatever creator and maker that you you thank. ⁓ climb another huge climb where you get over 13,000 feet, descend into Telluride. And that's that's the first time I got to see my wife. Telluride's about 28 miles into the race, and ⁓ and that's a fun moment. So they had Andy and Heard gotten together at that point. ⁓ and and they both crewed me there and I ran in and ⁓ you get some smiles and you get some refreshments, ate a piece of watermelon at that point. I was still hanging in tenth place and ⁓ and push out of there fairly quickly, you know, and you think you're a fast runner, so you like jog out of it and then it goes uphill again immediately. Like even in the town of tell you ride, you're hiking on concrete yet, but you're like hiking, you know, because ⁓ now leave and tell you ride, you're going to ⁓ Kroger's Canteen, which is like this like Like It's the highest aid station ⁓ in North America, is what it is. It's over 13,000 feet. These volunteers, they hike everything in, like up these super steep passes to get up to this little niche, this little notch in the mountaintop. And you're like, you're almost sliding backwards down scree with your poles up to get up there. And again, people are cheering you on. And I guarantee that there are runners that are sliding backwards in that moment, you know? ⁓ so you get up there. And they like they shouldn't be there. Like it's not a it's this is what's special about hard rock is like a normal race director, which I am, you would just go like, nah, there's an aid station before it and after it. There's not an aid station up there. That's dangerous to have volunteers up there. Like it's like there's lightning strikes and stuff, but somehow hard rock like, no, we wanna like, we wanna like, like. mess with people, both volunteers and runners, and we want to have them at at like this super tall point. And they pack in these pierogies, you know, like that's their special food at this aid station. so you get up there and and and have a special moment ⁓ and and the volunteers are just outstanding. Like they're just like Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: They're treating you like you're doing something really special, you know? and that you're accomplishing something, which all good station volunteers do. Kroger's is wild. The backside of that is the same thing. It's like straight down, you know? And like you just like kind of see where, like, man, if I if I fell there, I'd I could really look like an idiot, or I could really hurt myself, you know? And so, Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: I more so than any race I've run are these moments of like, gosh, like really, I could, I could hurt myself there. ⁓ which isn't like it's not a bravado bragging thing. It's like this race is it has real challenges to it. And it and it and ⁓ that's the fun of it. It makes you go, I gotta check myself here. This isn't an ego thing. You can't just bash off the top of this thing and survive it. You gotta be careful. You gotta be like, Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: tactile and you gotta take your time, you know. ⁓ and it's fun that nature can do that to you sometimes. And it's really fun to have that in a race. so I went down that thing ⁓ and you're you're running and and I made it and it was good. ⁓ and you get this big long double track road section ⁓ that a lot of ATVs are on ⁓ past another aid station and down into U Ray and Uray's like 40 something miles in. and it's a point for me That even pre raise I had known would be like I was like, man, long kind of not super steep, but miles of like road where you could go really hard. It's also starting to get hot during the day. I knew like that could be a problem for me. Like I need to focus on fueling. I need to focus on like like efficiency, but not like all out race speed. I need to come in U Ray feeling calm, collected, full of fuel, ready to carry on because now you're transitioning to the back half of the race, right? And these this is in the game plan before the race. But Ryan Head: Yep. Alex: The race is different and I'm coming down the road and I'm not going super fast. I'm I'm I'm calm and collected because I have my little plan. But I'm also going like, man, my stomach doesn't really want to take much food or nutrition in. Like I knew that. And I hit the next aid station, which is before U Ray. It's along this road. And the first time I like, well, it's not the first time, but I sat down for a second and ⁓ on a chair and and I thought, all right, I'm gonna have some watermelon here. And I had this whole plan for nutrition and how many salt pills I was gonna take and all this jazz. And ⁓ but it's the moment, and I think every runner has this, where like that plan changes. And for me, when the plan changes, it's usually my stomach doesn't want food. And I was like, all right, I'll I'll eat a little bit of watermelon and then I'll I'll roll. Body's still feeling great though. So I was feeling really good. Run down into URE. I'm coming into the smoke. This fire is kind of in this area here. Later I found out like the smoke was really bad early in the day before any runners were there. But now it was like, if you know AQI, if you live in the West, it was like, I don't know, 120, 130. ⁓ it's it's you can run in it, but it's not like great, you know. It's it's unhealthy for sensitive groups, is what they say on the apps. ⁓ coming to URE, URA's a big major aid station. There's Ryan Head: Sure. Yeah. Alex: There's a guy on a camera following you in telling, I don't want to say anything to your mom. And ⁓ I was like, ⁓ not really. ⁓ I was starting to come into this zone that was like a bit of the the pain cave. And actually right before I hit the the biker on a bike, I went through a little tunnel, a little cave. Technically wasn't a cave because it was a tunnel, it was open on the other end, and it's like way close to your head. And ⁓ I'm I have my hand up here. It was like dark in there, but it's like it's like a hundred twenty feet long. It's not like take out a headlamp dark, but it's dark. So it's like, man, don't hit your head on the top. I'm scraping my have like a rooster hat on. I'm scraping my fingers across top, make sure I'm not hitting the head. About ten feet from the edge, I'm like, I'm clear, man. Did that. Take like three more steps. Crack. Like slam my head as soon as they're into the top. Fall to the ground. ⁓ like just like not out of like like passing out, out of like, man, I gotta like Ryan Head: Yeah. No. Alex: absorb the shock, right? Like so I hit it. I went right down to the ground. I started swearing to myself, which I I don't know. I, you know, growing up in in ⁓ in Wisconsin, you know, I just do a lot of swearers. So I'm swearing to myself and I know it like I cracked my head pretty good. It took my hat off. There's blood on the top of it. Like I cut my head open, you know. ⁓ this was just before like a mile outside of U Ray. I get up and ⁓ so this is how I'm going into the aid station. I'm going in Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: Not able to take on fuel, pissed off at myself, that I that I knowingly protected my head from the tunnel. I quit 10 feet early and then slammed my head into it. And for some reason I karmically have a habit of slamming my head into things. so I'm going in my aid station a little pissed off and and not feeling so good. I get in there. Ryan Head: Mm. Alex: This energy I was talking about that was so exciting, you know, my coach being at the aid stations when it's usually just Nicole and he's like all impressed, like, yeah, you're doing good, man, calm collected. He's slipping bottles in, dude. I feel like, ⁓ man, this is like I'm like a professional here where you see those guys going through and transitioning and gals. And ⁓ I go in there and I'm telling myself, like, you gotta sit down for a while, man. Like, you're gonna this something's gonna go wrong here if you don't cool off for a second. Like, you need to find a way to eat food again. But I go in there and it's the same energy I'd had at all the other aid stations. I'm I'm in ninth place, I think, now. And ⁓ and everybody's stoked up, you know, and and everybody's doing a great job, and everybody did a great job. What I didn't do a great job here was of communication. But I'm gonna say things from a point of view that make it be like, ⁓ man, these guys were really pushed. On this guy. I go into the aid station, everybody's stoked, and let's get some bottles. And there's aid station people kind of attending too because you know the the herd is thin there, so they don't have as much to do. And ⁓ and and I remember and I'm going, like, man, I gotta like I I feel good, but like I'm getting hot and I'm not eating really well here, you know. And Andy's putting bottles in and the aid station purpose's like, What you need, what you need? And and and I don't know if this is true for you, Ryan, but When you get into a hundred and these volunteers, they do a really good job. They're very attentive. But like for me, like my mind slows down and people come, they're like, What can I do for you? What can I do for you? And I'm like, Well, nothing right now. I just need like a minute to to to figure it out. Well, what can I get you? Do you need some water? Do you need some broth? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what I need. I just need to like chill, you know? It's almost like, like, hey, like slow down. But Ryan Head: Thank ya. Alex: And maybe this doesn't happen to everybody, but maybe because I'm riding in this sub-elite, like they want to find a way to push you out. And I'm kind of in the zone where I'm like, I gotta chill for a second. I'm feeling like unstable here. And Andy was doing it, and Nicole was like doing a great job, and they're all doing a great job. And and what I wasn't doing was going like, hey, calm down, guys. I need like five minutes here, you know? And and the whole story I'll get into next is like, had I taken 20 minutes at this aid station. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: Maybe it would have saved me five to six hours later down the line in my time and the suffering I ran into. ⁓ but but ⁓ things were going really well, sitting in ninth place. There's another guy in the aid station, a a legend, Jeff Rome, who's a great runner. ⁓ finishes very high. He lives in ⁓ Silverton. He he he does really well at this race. and ⁓ and he'd been in the aid station a long time, you know. I rolled Ryan Head: Wow. Alex: been in there for half an hour, my coach said. ⁓ the energy's high, man. Get out of here, man. Like boom, you grab another place. Like things are going well. And ⁓ and I go, yeah, that that seems right. You know, even though like seems like I'm I'm about to enter the pain cave. So I leave. It's the warmest place on the course. You're down at you're at the lowest point on the course. You're at like 80, 600 feet, maybe a little lower, somewhere around there. It's like in the upper eighties. Up 80s are like hot in that weather. It's smoky. You breathe in that in, you're smelling it. And you climb out engineer pass. You climb like 5,000 feet in like I don't know what it is, six and a half miles, seven miles, something like that. It's you know, it's doable when you consider the stuff you run, Maylens and stuff, but like it's long, you know, and you're 40 miles in. ⁓ so it climbs. Ryan Head: Sure. Alex: I'm out and ⁓ and And you get up to this piece of town. It's really cool. It's a million dollar highway. It's like the craziest road you're ever on. It's like it seems like it's crazy that more people don't die on this road because it's unbelievably scary. Big drop offs and stuff. Well, you cross it. There's a tunnel that the cars go under and you go over this land bridge across this thing. Right there, there's a parking lot. And Jeff Rome, who was in the aid station behind me, he left after I did, like thirty seconds and and he passed me right away. ⁓ and I was like, Well, he's not dropping out. But I get to this little land bridge thing. And him and this other ⁓ runner, Dylan Bowman, who's an awesome guy, awesome runner, they're both dropping out there. They're dry he Dylan's dry heaving. He he looks at me as I come up and he goes, he goes, good on you, man. Like you're passing two runners now. You got some dead man walking here. And he's like, he's he's dry, he's right in the like ⁓ these dry heaves, you know. And that kind of stoked me up more. I was like, dang, man, I'm sitting in like eighth place now, you know, things are looking good. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Alex: And I'm just starting this big climb I was telling you about. ⁓ it was like two to four hundred yards after that that like I puked for the first time. ⁓ and again, I'm in the heat of the day. The mountain I'm climbing, like it it faces west. So the sun's over here now. It's afternoon. It's all exposed shale. It's just hot. It's blown out. I haven't been taking liquids in. And I start puking. ⁓ and ⁓ and and it's like uncontrollable. I don't know if you ever had that before, but and puking sucks, man. Like I used to be Ryan Head: Yep. ⁓ ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah. It hurts. Alex: type of guy that's like scared of puking, not scared of that much, but like I like to avoid puking if I can. ⁓ and ⁓ it's one of those things. Yeah. Ryan Head: Dude, especially on a race, like it just yeah, because y you're already hurting everywhere and the last thing you wanna do is have your stomach hurt more. I get ya, dude. I'm ⁓ I'm with ya. So last thing I wanna do. Yeah. Alex: ⁓ it's tough, man. It's tough. And I'm at this weird little point and I just passed two people that were dropping out and I'm puking heavy and like you get almost everything out right away. Take some more steps. Like, you know, like you go to this thing where you're like and your stomach is like is like you know, like it's just knotted, like it's just there, and you're just like And you're just like trying to get something out, but nothing's coming. Like you're I'm just my whole abs and chest is locked up. And then like it would go away. And be like, all right, let's take a couple steps, you know? And like it was a combo of like nothing in your body, and then at a hot time of day, no liquids in your body anymore. I'd take like a minute or ten seconds or thirty seconds worth of walking. You could feel my core temperature going up. And then it would trigger when it got up, like like dry heaves with nothing that could come, you know. ⁓ but the problem is, is that any liquid or anything I would put in, even if it was like it got so bad that even if it was like a quarter ounce, like a little bit, I'd swallow it and then that would trigger the the same thing. So so it was weird, man. And I'd just seen these other two people drop and and immediately, you know, as a weak person or in your weak times, you go like, this ain't gonna work, man. Like I Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: somehow I messed up big time, you know, and I thought I did all right. I thought I took it easy, but now here I am like and and these professionals, man, like they just dropped out. Like, what am I gonna do? Like I'm not even quite I'm not even quite halfway into the race. It really is kind of the halfway crux, but technically you're you're pre you're pre fifty-one miles yet at that point and you're going like, huh, big boys are dropping out and and and here you are, like you didn't figure it out and Ryan Head: Yeah, it messes with ya. Mm-hmm. Yep. Alex: Now you to find a way forward. ⁓ couple of little funny things though. It's the first hundred miler I ever didn't take my phone on, and that was intentional. I usually maybe listen to a little music at some point or something like that. ⁓ that is one of the rare places on the course where there was service. If I had my phone on me, I might have called Nicole and said, Hey, this ain't gonna work. Like, I got a lot of race left, super hot out. You know, it it turned from puking in the beginning. ⁓ I ran into Pam Reed after that. She's like an ultra running legend. She was volunteering, like taking numbers down of people on course. ⁓ and and I I laid down just after I passed her. I talked to her for a while. I said, like I said, I I I I don't think like I can do this, you know, and and ⁓ I just feel so crappy right now. Like I don't know. Like it's you your mind starts rationalizing. You start going like, well, what's the difference between suffering and like really hurting yourself, dude? You know? And and your body, your mind wants to tell you, like your weak mind wants to go, like, you're hurting yourself, dude. Like, and that's all you have to tell people. That's all you have to say is like, hey, I'm it's not worth a real injury or time in the hospital or whatever. So like that's why I pulled the plug, you know? And if you ever pulled the plug, you may Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Alex: have have given yourself those outs before. It's pretty common. I think those thoughts all the time. So I I I remember telling Pam about that or whatever. And I and I was like, man, these other guys just dropped out. And she's she's ⁓ she's kind of this older gal that's a beast and ⁓ but she's also very brunt, you know? And I and I was like, yeah, and then these guys, you know, mile back, like they're dropping out. Like, man, it's like like trying to get like permission or consent, you know, like to like that my thoughts were right, you know. And I didn't say I was gonna drop out Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Alex: I was just saying like this all sucks out here. Like I'm like I'm messed up and these guys are dropping out and this is really tough, you know? And she's like, well you don't think about their shit, you know? She goes, you don't think about that crap. Like Think about what you're doing. Like take some time off and like figure it out, you know? ⁓ and and ⁓ and there's this kind of maybe they say this at other ultras. There's this special thing that I heard a bunch of times. ⁓ I was I'm maybe 40 minutes into suffering now. And and what had happened, just to put it in perspective, is is you go from like kind of eating up miles ⁓ at a reasonable pace at Hard Rock, ⁓ which can be anywhere from you know eight minute miles on downhills to to Ryan Head: I love it. Alex: to twenty minute miles on the uphills and that's like could be relatively fast on the steeps. and ⁓ but now I'm now I'm I'm moving like over the next four and a half Ryan Head: Sure. ⁓ totally, yeah. Alex: Miles to get to the engineer, you know, took me over four hours. Like I'm I'm moving really slow, man. I'm I'm I'm doing an hour a mile sometimes because it's just stop, puke, like lay down, like try to figure things out. Like go, okay, I can't have any water in because it instantly makes me puke. But then an hour and a half later, you're a mile and a half further, and you there's a clear cold stream, and you're so overheated, and you go, Well. Ryan Head: Yeah. Sure. Alex: Let me try water now, get my filter out. Like, boom. Like, I'm just gonna have like two ounces, but I drink like eight ounces because it's super cold, you know. Take two steps after that and boom, puke that all up. And now I'm like in a whole nother battle where it's another hour for another mile, and I'm just inching along and laying on the ground. And people are coming by me, some that I know, some that I don't, and they're all saying. You got 48 hours for this thing, man. Like, you got all the time in the world, you know? ⁓ and the rational part of you going, like, yeah, that's true. And then the egotistical part of you is going like, well, yeah, but like, I don't want to do this thing in 48 hours. Like, like I I know that Ryan knows that I spent all this time out here and he's watching me and like they're expecting me to do something, and I'm expecting me to do something, and now here I am. I blew it all, man. You know, all of it. I got Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Alex: This pacer at mile 60 waiting for me with my wife, they're like, they want to go to bed sometime. Like now it's gonna be a 35-hour day or something, a 40-hour day, you know, like a 48-hour day. These are all the things in your mind, like trying to convince you that you should maybe give up. But then you also realize that, like Those are all the reasons like not to give up, you know. At the same like they it there's these moments where you're almost there. And if somebody gave you like a button to push, you know, like you you might do it. but but if you find a way around that, ⁓ you start to realize, yeah, those, you know, my pacer, Trevor. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: ⁓ who I work with and he's he's an amazing runner. ⁓ like a really amazing runner. Trevor Fooks rhymes with books, ⁓ but he, if you know Trevor, you know he's a genuine good guy. I I started to realize like this is the reason to to scroll forward. Is is because I don't run with pacers a lot, but this this might be a time to need a pacer more than I ever have before, you know. And at that point, you know, still a mile from this aid station where I knew they could put blankets on me. The sun's gone down now, it's starting to get cold. I couldn't eat yet. I thought if I can just get there and these people can take care of me, like maybe I can figure out a way to eat. And Trevor, who's waiting there, who I feel guilty, ⁓ and I Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And I feel like shame that I'm going so slow and I feel like I've failed. But I know honestly, like It I need him more than ever, you know. Like this is it's it is beautiful that he has set aside time in his life to be out here because, you know, he doesn't know it. But if I make it to him, like we're gonna take double the time he thought to get to the finish line and he's gonna have to drag me up these things. That's what I was thinking. So I get to the aid station, four or five hours. I don't know, maybe I'm exaggerating, but it's it's definitely over three hours after I should have. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: A lot of friends and family were watching the tracker, going like, ⁓ we don't even know where this guy is. Like, I'm not sure what's going on with this guy. I make it to this aid station up at Engineers, which is a hike in only. This is another thing. And I knew this. I you know, I could have turned around and went back to URA. I could drop out there. I knew I couldn't drop out at engineers. You can't drop there. It's a hiking only. So even though I wanted to drop out, there's a part of my brain that bullishly was pushing me forward into a position where I couldn't drop out, you know? And I knew it. I was like, man, if I make it to engineers, they're not gonna let me drop out. ⁓ it's so big of a hassle. And I'm gonna have to find a way to heal myself and move forward. So got to engineers, it's dark out and they got all these lights on, you know, they pull you into the aid station. It's cold, dude. They just have a tent, a tarp up. Ryan Head: Smart. Yep. Smart. Alex: and there's wind blowing under it, there's no sidewalls or anything. Like it's a hike in only, you know. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And I'm under this blanket and the guy's like, it's electrolytes, dude. You don't have anything in your stomach. And and you you hadn't taken in enough salt, even though I thought I'd been taking in a ton of it. ⁓ so he talks me into sheepishly I was, is to drinking these little teeny bits of of hot broth, salty broth. ⁓ and and that started to change things. You know, if I know if you've ever been dehydrated or whatever, you feel it like trickle down your chest, that warmth in there, and you're just like, ⁓ man, something's working. I spent an hour at that aid station, about fifty-six minutes or something like that. It says on open split, getting getting better. Sorry, man. I'm trying to keep this story going, but as you can tell, and ⁓ dark out, all these people are like streaming past. ⁓ and and so that ego's battling that. You know, you're doing these things. And I whether you're elite, sub-elite, Ryan Head: Yeah. You're good. You're good. This is amazing. Alex: runner, walker, hiker. I we all have an ego to something. So there must be there must be things that people can relate to in that. But you are kind of battling like, is this thing worth it? Like or did I just blow it, you know, and and But but the part of me that wanted to keep going knew that like, man, I I I'm super fortunate to have these people out here for me. I know I'm gonna see them six miles from now at the next aid station, which is called Grouse. And and I also knew that even though it was I was slightly embarrassed that ⁓ I went out and maybe ran what people were thinking was an inspiring race. Now all of a sudden I I I crap my pants and like people are probably at home thinking, what's going on with this dude? And and that's how my mind likes to think about it. I know. that they're not thinking that. But there's part of me that thinks like, nah, they are. They're talking crap. Dude, they're like, they're kind of going like, look at him, man. Cashed in too many chips and here he is, messed it up. ⁓ and so you just got to, it's really tough to like, I think that's why we do these things is like we want that battle with ourselves, the good versus evil. Ryan Head: Sure. Alex: like the the point of growth and so ⁓ so I was there I made it to this point way late I I I interacted with all these really cool people I gotta give a shout out to to Nick Corey ⁓ you know he's one of the founders of Era Viper running him and his brother Jamil were both running the race ⁓ Nick Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: is a negative split runner. He he goes out easy on purpose. He believes in finishing hard and he believes in the negative split. He may still be for a while. He was the the US record holder for ⁓ the hundred mile distance run on a track like the the fastest time. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Alex: And he's a really good runner. He passed me before I got to this aid station and he gave me some ginger chews and stuff that I puked back up as soon as I took. ⁓ they didn't work the way they were advertised. ⁓ but he gave me he said he was one of those guys all the time in the world. Jared Campbell, a guy out of Park City. ⁓ he he finished Barclays Marathon either two or three times. He's the only person to finish it that many times. ⁓ he passed me, he was pacing, a buddy of his. He gave me great advice too, and he gave me encouragement to keep going. These these people, in addition to my own piece. part of me that wasn't trying to kill myself or wasn't trying to quit the race. ⁓ th these people really helped keep me going. And so so I left that aid station ⁓ able to not puke anymore, ⁓ like to walk without puking. And I had to climb about 900 or a thousand feet to still hit the summit and then drop down like four and a half or five miles to this next aid station. So I do that in the dark, the stars are out. I'm still feeling like garbage, but I'm not puking and I'm moving really slow. I get to the top. And the downhill is all on this like two-track ATV road, this famous road called ⁓ Alpine Loop that a lot of ATVers go out and ride. It's stunning, but it's road, it's chunky. Problem with the road out here, when you get it, you think like, ⁓ road running after all this, like tough technical climbing and descending. It's like filled with these like boulders, man. Like it's like it's worse than the trail. Like it sucks, at least to me. Like my knees hurt, and ⁓ I'm just like I'm happy to be moving, so I'm walking the downhill. I'm not Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And running it. I took a couple steps. I said, that hurts. I'm just gonna walk it into the aid station. Like, that's fine. I walk for like two and a half of those miles. And and then, you know, the other that, and that's the negative me. Like, I am doing it. I'm positive, I'm moving forward, but I'm like, it doesn't matter. Like, I'm just walking it. Tribbry and I'm gonna hike this thing out when I get to my pacer. ⁓ but finally. You know, these these groups, everybody had a pacer from U Ray, except for me. Everybody had a pacer except for me. I was the only one who didn't have a pacer at that point. That was an interesting little thing of like, okay, you probably could have had a pacer from U Ray, you know. ⁓ but finally a group of two passes me and I go, you know what, man, like try and jog behind them. Like it you're gonna you're making these people wait forever. Like they're waiting down there for you. You're just walking. Like try and jog behind these people. Pretend they're your pacers or that you're a part of their crew. So I started and the legs hurt and and but you find that rhythm and you're like, Okay, the legs don't hurt quite as much. They don't hurt quite as much. I'm gonna try talking with these people. I'm gonna thank ⁓ I'm gonna tell ⁓ I'm so I'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, say like, Hey, I hope you don't mind that I'm like using you guys as pacers, but like I can't do anything else right now. Like I'm barely holding on here, you know. Ryan Head: Yeah. Yep. Alex: and and it worked and we started talking a little bit. And by the time I got into the aid station, I I had a plan and I I thought, okay, this is this is mile 62 or 60 ⁓ grouse and we're gonna climb to the highest point of the course after this. We're gonna do handies. I've been over handies a couple of times, but I knew I knew I'm not done with being slow yet. I I could now have food in without puking, but I hadn't taken a lot in because it's just like you don't want to risk it. And I knew I gotta get into this aid station. I gotta explain to my crew, Nicole, and my pacer what was going on because like nobody talked to them. But I have to eat food and I'm gonna commit. I'm gonna not do what I didn't do at URE. I'm gonna be more vocal. I'm gonna say what I need to do because they can't help me if I don't tell them what's going on. And that was the critical error in URE. It wasn't my crew going like, Go, dude, you're kicking butt. It was me not giving them the information they needed to help me. Like I was just silent, I let them like. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: like push me out of there and I I s I paid ⁓ dearly for it. So I get into this aid station and I tell Nicole and Trevor what are going on and ⁓ thank ⁓ for being there and Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: The medical team set me down because Nicole was all worried for hours when nobody knew where I was. And they talked to me and ⁓ told them I hit my head and they did a concussion protocol and they're pretty convinced I was all right. And I knew I felt all right too. So I was eating. I was eating ⁓ savory, solid foods. I had mashed potatoes, I had broth, ⁓ I had something else. I can't remember what it was. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And then and then I said, I need to lie down, like in your in your cot, in your medical tent. I need to take like a 20-minute nap. The goal was to eat and lie down and let that like while I just rested, let that stuff like percolate into my system and digest. So I did that. It was a funny picture. Nicole took a photo of me, like with a smile on my face under the cot, Trevor standing there. And ⁓ and then we left 60 miles in. And ⁓ and and we we we climbed pretty well up to the highest part of the course. and talking with Trevor, I said, hey, this might be a long slog, man, like, but I'm here. I'm I know you're glad. I'm glad you're here with me. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And we climbed up in the pitch dark to this highest part on the course. Smoke was bad there too. It was probably the worst in the whole course. And it was kind of cool though, because the headlamps on and there's these particles like flying sideways in front of you. And it was like ash. ⁓ which even from a health standpoint, you're like, that's not like great. But but it's kind of a beautiful thing in the in the moment in this night. And and things had shifted for me. Like ⁓ and Trevor didn't know it yet, but I knew it. I was like, man, I I can climb fine. You know, like is if and if I if I can if I can keep ingesting food And not get sick of it and keep these things going, like we're gonna have a fun day. So we climbed up to the tallest part of the course. You're on this kind of like little ridge back for something, and you drop down. ⁓ and we hit the first descent that I'd have with Trevor, and ⁓ we ran down to the next aid station, ⁓ which leads six miles later into Sherman, which is like Sherman is like, I guess it's like. 75 or 76 miles in, in my head, because I'd been up it before, it felt like the last part of the race. It's this climb. Ryan Head: Ha ha ha. Alex: And you're you're you're up and you're undulating for about eight miles, but at high altitude. And then there's like these three super steep staccato climbs before you get to the last 10 miles. And I break things out in chunks, and then runners have all different ways of doing it, right? And and and and so you know, you're like, ⁓ I'm three a quarter of the way done, half done. And and then you break it out into smaller points or bigger points, but Ryan Head: Yeah. Yep. Alex: We were moving well. We had our first little downhill section on the road. We came into Sherman and ⁓ and and Sherman, I met the aid station captain. Sorry, let me silence this. My wife's calling. ⁓ I'd met the aid station captain, so I was looking forward to meeting her. I had a I had a Red Bull in a drop bag, my only drop bag on the course. And ⁓ and I was feeling good. I came in, we ate some more broth. ⁓ I think I had a little bit of egg or something too. And ⁓ Ryan Head: Yoroka. Yeah. Alex: And then I pulled out this Red Bull and and which I like I've never drank in a race before, but when I was younger, I had drank, I like I liked the taste of it, you know. ⁓ I hadn't had really any caffeine. And I was like, you know what, I need some caffeine, so I'm gonna have a little bit of this Red Bull. Remember telling the aid station guy, this guy saying, One time I chugged a Red Bull and at a 5K and then it puked my guts out or whatever, you know. And I was like, Well, the key is moderation. I had this 16-ounce Red Bull. I drank like three and a half ounces of it, you know. ⁓ and we left and we started the crux. Ryan Head: ⁓ yeah, we all did. Alex: the course to me the last 25 or so miles and and trevor was like man that red bull like that red bull like made you like you're on drugs right now like it it it was the second climb with trevor the sun was starting to come out again you know how the sun can kind of kind of reinvigorate things and ⁓ and my body felt like it was a brand new day like I felt like it's I totally overcome what I had and but the goal Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: Well, the whole goal of the day was to have fun and have a good time. Because Trevor was there and because you went through that hard moment, I went through that hard moment and kind of came back. The goal now was like, let's just have fun. Let's just enjoy this. ⁓ but it wasn't like sullen when I was hurting. It wasn't like, let's just like get through this at a slow pace. It's like, no, let's have fun. Let's enjoy this. We're back, man. We're having a good time. When I left Grouse, which is where I picked up the pacer, I was in thirty-second place. ⁓ I don't know where I was when we got to Sherman. I think I passed maybe one or two people, but I was probably thirty. and over the next twenty-five miles, the last fifteen with Trevor, I picked up my coach for the last ten. But over that that last twenty-five miles, we we went from thirtieth or thirty-second back to tenth place overall. and ⁓ not to glaze over that because it was fun, but It was it's what's incredible about hundred mile journeys that you can start feeling good, feeling like you prepared, your plan goes to crap for some reason or another. If you hold on, if you hold on, because I have given up before, and many people give up, and there's nothing wrong with that in that moment, but Hopefully one day you learn to stop giving up and you learn to get through those hard moments. And we all have moments we can't overcome and we all have redemption moments. But if you get through in a hundred, we're likely to see this kind of miraculous thing that is very special, where you realize that hard moments are temporary. just as good moments are and you can find the good moments again after hard moments, right? And so ⁓ Trevor and I were moving through the course, climbing these climbs as fast as anybody else was climbing that day. In fact, when we descended the last few miles into into ⁓ Cunningham before I picked up my coach for the last 10 as pacer, we ran that piece ⁓ Third fastest, at least in Strava Parlance, which has been a while around for a while, third fastest that anybody has ever run it before, right? So it's a it it I guess it is a little bit of a brag and I don't mean it to sound that way, but like you get on there and you look at it and like Killian's there in number two, you know, and then like Ryan Head: Well Heck no. That's awesome. Alex: Zach Miller is there in number five. And Trevor and I were sitting in like third, fourth place on that thing, like because it was just a special time, man. And and so it was fun. It and I think what's really fun about ⁓ 100 milers is you know, we went from 32nd to 10th. and Ryan Head: Let's go. Alex: And you pass these people and they're pacers and they're going, like, is that Alex? You know, and they're like stoked that like I'm coming back and strong. And I'm going, like, what's up, dudes? Like, keep pushing, you're almost there. And you're racing, and I'm trying to be the best version of myself. And that means passing those people in that moment. That means getting a higher place for myself. And yet there's no malice, there's no like will or yearning to beat those individuals into the ground. It's only to achieve Ryan Head: That you're back, hm. Alex: What you think is your potential, you know? And and so we took that. We took the last however many hours it was ⁓ to to to clip off, to work our way back up, ⁓ to work my way back up towards what felt like towards my edge, you know, and we we we did it smiling and laughing, and ⁓ and having a good time and and kind of laughing at the at the the surprise of it all that you could. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: Come back and you could move as fast as Trevor and I were moving together after having such a big low, you know. So that long story short was a full night with Trevor and his we we didn't even we were talking, but a lot of it was silent. He moved behind me most of the time, four or five runner lengths back, like good cushion, but we just felt each other. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And you'd look up and you'd see a mile in the distance, the next pair, or two or three pairs sometimes when you come over, and and you just start to go like it wasn't a goal to beat them, but they were moving posts of like the next thing to catch is this group and move on to the next one and say hi to them and move on to the next one and say hi to them and and and hit the aid stations and take in food and feel good and have good conversation. so I left him at mile nine. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: I picked Andy up. Andy and Nicole were there. They'd just gotten there like five minutes before because they were like, they almost missed us. And now it maybe would have changed the whole race because I wouldn't have had a pacer or a crew there. ⁓ but but it was because, you know, like I was fudging the open split system, like my pace predictions weren't accurate. Like I went from being what was gonna be, you know, projected out to be a 40-something hour finish to like throwing the system and speeding up. So they just made it there. I picked them up, Andy was stoked. He was fresh legs. He starts pulling me up this brutal final climb. He's behind me. He's not Trevor. He's a different guy than Trevor. And he's like right on me. He's like breathing down my back. I just had this like relaxed vibe for hours and hours. Now I got Coach Andy, who's a high energy guy on my back. He's going, You're doing good, Alex. You're really good, man. We're almost there. There's the next person. Let's go get him. And he's doing exactly what he should be doing. But in the moment I was like, I was like, God, this is like insane like he's pushing me way too hard. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to finish this race if he pushes me this hard up this climb. And I was into the same position I was in in U Ray, where I wasn't telling him what I needed. And I was going too hard. And I was starting to overheat on the on the last climb of this race. And ⁓ and so finally I was like, Andy, you gotta get in front of me, man. You're pushing me too hard. He got in front of me. I let him get like six runners ahead of me. And and I just went what I could. And then Andy he adjusted his pace. And so it's really interesting, like the whole dynamic. I don't do the pacer thing a lot. ⁓ but like Ryan Head: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Alex: Trevor was great behind me. He was good in front of me. ⁓ Andy went with the last 10 miles when I was starting to feel it. You know, like it was like I had I had to kind of put him where I I needed. And that's a weakness for me. I'm not, I actually just usually accommodate what other people need. ⁓ and in that race, I needed to be the one to say, like, well, this is what I need. And and I'm lucky that I did it there because it it might not ended the way it did. But But yeah, we we ended up passing three more sets of people ⁓ to to get into twelfth overall and then and then tenth male. and and again coming down to the finish line, coming off that final climb, ⁓ we were again running, you know. Some of the which isn't a huge brag. ⁓ we're running some of the fastest splits that have been run at that race. Now, just parlay that with most elite athletes don't take a four-hour break ⁓ suffering like I do. So they might not have that much in the tank anymore, right? That's the difference there. But ⁓ but it was really it was prideful to be able to do that. Andy, when we came over the top. Ryan Head: Ha ha. Yeah. Alex: He goes, there's a chance for top 10, but it's only if we hammer, man. And and and ⁓ again I had this negative moment in my head where I was like, hammer, dude. Like I've been hammering for like a long time, you know, like like ⁓ but but it it it was there for like a half a mile, and then my legs opened up and we started moving and that negative side like my pouting mind left. My pouting mind was like, I've been hammering forever, dude. Like, what do you think? Man, you know, and ⁓ Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: Then I was like, no, he he he's motivating me. Like, we need to hammer, man. And we opened up and we hammered and we had a couple miles together where we were just flying downhill over this big chunky stuff. These moments where you just find yourself, you know, the strongest version of yourself, Ryan, where you're on the trail and you're like, every step is like pretty dialed, man. Like those special moments as a runner. That's what we had for the closing kind of five, six miles down this hill into town. ⁓ Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: And and Andy was just firing me up more and more. We're running super fast. He just ran Western two weeks ago, but You know, he jumped in with me the last ten miles and he's a fast guy and we're pounding. And ⁓ I come down and ⁓ and and pass a couple more runners. Unknowingly, I pass I passed the male that gets me into top ten. He was the guy with Jared Campbell that had passed me 40 miles earlier. I didn't know that was hit the threshold though. So I'm like three and a half miles from the finish and I'm going like, I gotta keep pounding, see if I can like maybe make it. The guy could still be in front of me, could be behind me. ⁓ I'd passed him, but I didn't know. And I keep pounding. and and ⁓ and Andy is like almost laughing that we're pounding so much and he goes like get it man and I leave Andy behind ⁓ for like the last two miles of the race ⁓ and and pound in and there's some cool drone footage of like my my kind of finish where the the if you listen to the announcers they're like they're like who is this person man? Like nobody really knows like who I am you know and ⁓ so that's kind of funny but ⁓ But yeah, I'm coming down and and you know, when I was on the trail yet, maybe a mile and a half out, that's when I really I really had what I guess is important to me in these events and it's needed sometimes. This is moments of like pride, you know? And and I had them throughout my whole training cycle, but but it it comes full circle when you when you have a tough day and you get through it and you're coming to the finish line and you go, I can't believe all these people helped me all day on the course, run other runners, other people taking numbers, my wife, my coach, my pacer, like Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: They're out here. And the most important thing to me was that like I didn't give up on myself, like in front of them. Even though I had moments of wanting to give up, and moments where I throttled back the ambition in your moments of doubt, like I still kept it moving one foot in front of the other, right? ⁓ and that's it's it's just it's like the funniest thing ever in running, where it's like, yeah, just one foot in front of the other. And it's true, it's the most tangible form of competition. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: Committing to get something done. And ⁓ and it was really special hitting town, seeing some people at this place where the backdrop had been. It's this it's a ski resort, and you kind of know you're getting near the finish and they're hard rock people there and they're cheering you on and you're coming home and you're just like kinda, kinda You almost want to get emotional, but you're going like, well, that's not yet time. Like, just enjoy it, man. Like you're coming to the finish line. Like, be present. Be grateful you're out here. One of the things I was saying in my lowest moments, even when I was trying to quit mentally on myself, I was trying, I was saying, like, I have it written down here because I thought like Louise's going to ask me all these questions. I I kept. Saying, like, I'm I'm grateful to be here, you know, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to suffer in in a way that I deem positive for myself. Some people have to suffer in horrible situations that they don't choose, you know. You and I and all these other runners, we get to choose where we challenge ourselves and we do it intentionally to bring it back to our personal life so we can be better human beings to our family, to our loved ones, to our bosses, to our Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: coworkers in our jobs, all that. And and ⁓ and so, you know, getting to the finish line, ⁓ I think for anybody is that moment to celebrate and go, you know what? Like I chose to do this. I chose to train for it. I wanted to give up during it, ⁓ which is weird because I chose to take on this opportunity, but I didn't. I persevered and I made it to the finish line, you know, and ⁓ And that that was the end of hard rock for me. You get to the finish line, they have this big rock. I liken it to the Blarney stone that I learned about in elementary school. You know, kiss the Blarney stone, you kiss this hard rock that's painted. You come up, that's your finishing time. They clock your your stop time when you kiss the rock. and then like any hundred miler, pretty happy to be done. So yeah. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Exactly. Wow, dude. Wow. I'm I I could sit here and listen to you tell this story. ⁓ any more details. I'm I'm just enjoying every bit of this. Alex: Well, I yeah, I do have to I am I tried to warn you at the beginning, I am a talker, so the details might get a little boring sometimes, but ⁓ but yeah, it was that that was the race and and it was fun. and and again, I think ⁓ you know one thing that's important to me is Ryan Head: No, they were great. Alex: This race more than any others, I'm always reminded, and I think I I think you probably are too, of the community, of the time your family dedicates towards letting you do this, of the responsibilities you skip out on, you know, like even while you hold down your job and do all these other things, there are sacrifices made by those people. And so that thankfulness, I really try to carry it forward in my life. It's funny. It likes to try and erode itself away and you get back to like just life and forgetting about those things. And but I try to use these experiences to remind myself of how lucky I am and thankful to everybody like my wife Nicole, like Ben at Perfect Feet, like my coach Andy, like Trevor and his wife Tempest and their kids. They came out and camped with us in an RV next to us. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Alex: Like just put their time into the race ⁓ to help me get through it. And that's just the people that were tangibly there, right? There's like there are my friends and family that are watching online. Like there are the people that use your finish or my finish as inspiration to fuel their own journeys. And like it's not just that I'm inspiring them. Like I'm grateful and thankful to them that they would put that that time and energy into watching me because that actually helps fuel My finish too, you know, like, and I'm glad I can give something back to them. ⁓ and I think that's part of the thankfulness I had at the end too of like, look, like I is it the best finish I could have ever hoped for personally for me. Like, it's not the best I could do with that race, but the back getting through the tough part and the back 42 so miles were were about as magical of a race as I could have. And ⁓ And if there's any karmic or like larger play that happens where you get rewarded sometimes at the end of the day, I I don't need a top five. I don't need a win. I watched Rocky the other day and there's this moment before he fights in the first movie. He goes to the arena and he comes back and he lays down with his partner and he kind of wakes her up. He goes, Like, I can't do it. I can't win. I can't beat Apollo Creed. And she goes, great partner. She goes, Well, what are we gonna do about it? And he goes, Well, if I could just go the distance with him, I can't beat him, but nobody's ever went the distance, you know? I that really hit me. It was I watched it after Hard Rock. And ⁓ that is such a beautiful line, especially for runners, because it's like going the distance, right? ⁓ but like it it says a lot. It's like I, you know, I I'm not a guy and I don't think most of us runners are like We don't need to go out and be the best runner in the world and win these things overall and have sponsorships and be like the face of products. Like a lot of us don't need that, but like There are a lot of us that need to know that we can go the distance with ourselves. And ⁓ and I went the distance that day and and and I was rewarded for it a little bit with with just a the best support crew and memories that will last a lifetime and ⁓ you know ⁓ just just a little better picture. of myself to me because outside people are like I know that guy like I can I can see that guy for what he is the internal version of us like it's really tough to see ourselves at our best ⁓ but but we have these few moments where if you if you if you play by the values that you hold dear to yourself you may be rewarded with a little bit better clarity of ⁓ of the good person that you are that we all are Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: You know, and I hope I can just like hold on to that and like help ⁓ help other people have those moments for themselves and ⁓ and move that forward. So yeah, that was hard rock for me. Ryan Head: Dude, what an amazing story. Thank you for sharing that with us. I think that's that's, you know, just a couple of thoughts that I have. One, you know, I always ask people what their why is. Honestly, you've said it over and over and over. You you have done a great job of explaining. You know, i one thing that just really stands out about your race is just your determination, your your commitment, your your willingness to just keep going after it. I mean one set back after another, after another, after another, and you just keep going and that's inspiring. And I think it's it's amazing that you just continue to keep pushing no matter what. And I i it's just it's, you know, in a lot of ways, man, just an honor to know ya. Like I I'm grateful to call you a friend and Yeah. Alex: Yeah. Well I I feel the same for you, man. I'll share one more thing because again, it's there's this difference, you know, again, I if you if I'm considered a decent runner, a sub-elite, there's something that happens when you you get closer to the pros a little bit, is that like you can get to know them a little better than like you do on just the marketing stuff, right? And so, like, you know, I talked with Courtney after the race the next morning at the at the awards ceremony, and ⁓ and I said, like, man, I had a heck of a time out there, dude. You know, she crushed it. If you know Courtney DeWalters, she's one of the goats. She's unbelievable. Ryan Head: Sure. Alex: ⁓ she's she's the same age as I am. ⁓ she's 41, and she's still at the top of her game. ⁓ and I I'm I apologize for a second. I just have to text something to my wife, but ⁓ I am gonna share this piece with you here. Ryan Head: Yeah, go for it. Alex: Sorry, man. It's funny how the how the world is, but but ⁓ so so the point I'm sharing is that like Ryan Head: No, you're good. Don't you worry about it. No, we c we we could edit this out. Yeah. Alex: When I was, you know, I was talking with Courtney, I was like, man, I had this heck of a time. And in my mind, she's the GOAT, dude. Like she just went out and broke her own record. you know, she finished hours ahead of me. I didn't finish in thirty-two hours. She ran a twenty-six eleven or something like that, you know, between you and everybody who's listening, you and I and everybody who's listening to this. I'd I'd hoped, I'd hope to spend a little more time running closer to her. I I my internal potential that I judge, I'm like, man, I Courtney's like the goat, dude. And like, but I I I wanted my time to be in that like 24 to 27 hour time range. Didn't happen. I still had an amazing race. Talking to Courtney about it. And she goes, man, what is it with puking out here, man? Like. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Alex: She suffered super hard. What I was talking about that last quarter of the race, where I was like, this is the crux. This is where I'm looking forward to crushing. When she was up there hours ahead of me, she was puking her guts out for miles and miles and overcame that. Ryan Head: Jeez. Alex: And probably, and maybe she had as much self-doubt as I did. Maybe she had less, maybe she had more. But I don't know. But what I do know is that we often think there are these divisions between us and these different classes of runners or whatever you want to call it, the people that are better, yada, yada, yada. She went through a different, an individual. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: An intimate journey of her own with dark places that were just as dark to her as mine were to me. And she did that well, like breaking the record and continuing to be the goat, right? And so Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Alex: I think what's really cool about that is like it's really awesome that we look up to these people that like statistically are running these pretty amazing feats, these fast races. but their experiences are oftentimes, not always, and I think you go down in distance, you see these machines who maybe can do it without suffering quite as much. But even then I think in training and stuff, they're battling the same things we are. But yeah, that's the point, is that like these people, performance-wise, are like they're they're amazing and they worked hard for it and they earned these freakish performances that makes them the goats. Ryan Head: Yep. Alex: But their winnings and their experiences and the self-doubt they're overcoming isn't that different from our own. And so ⁓ I really hope that ⁓ well, it's inspiring to have these finishes and these people to look up to, and even me, like me getting my top 10, and that's like top level for me, man. Like, so it is inspiring. Like I was performing up there, dude, like at the top of my what I can do. you know, we all have that in us to do that. And and those battles that the individuals are out there. Ryan Head: Yep. Alex: There fighting in their job every day, in their other in their hundred-mile journey, like when they're running, they're no less important than these elites ⁓ that are crushing on their own. And I guess what I got at the end of Hard Rock for me is this this does not happen to me a lot. I wish it did. I I hope it happens to other people more than it does for me. I was inspired by myself a little bit. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Alex: And that's almost the greatest gift that a person who has a lot of self-doubt and a lot of self-hate could get. is to actually be impressed by, inspired by, and proud of themselves, you know, right? Because like, because I actually feel like that's something that like I can take with me. It actually changes the person that I am a little bit. And and I got that in other hundred milers in different doses. But this one was a it was a special one, man. And to see all these people support me, to be privileged enough to to live and train for the race the way I wanted to, and and to see it. Ryan Head: Yep. Sure. Yeah. Alex: pay off, you know, not monetarily. ⁓ I'm not a pro-athlete to see it pay off ⁓ with maybe me having less self-doubt, less self-criticism, less self-hate for myself moving forward. ⁓ Ryan Head: But yeah. Alex: That is like a pretty magical thing. and so if that's all anybody out there gets from what they do that they're passionate about, I think that's probably enough, man, because it's pretty powerful currency, man. I bring it back to my family, my friends, my coworkers, and and I spread a little bit more positivity than I was spreading before, you know? Ryan Head: Yeah. Beautifully said. Beautifully said. And I I a hundred percent agree with you. If it makes you a better person, like you said, if you if you walk away from it and you say, you know, I'm a better person because of this and it helped change me, just like I've said, like I ⁓ empowerment, if you will, like this is what changed my life getting into ultra running and made me who I am. ⁓ I'm just like, you know, this was all worth it, every bit of it. So I love that you share that because it it really does. Like it's cool to hear that from you. And like you said, whether you're whether you're top ten or you're DFLing, right? You're dead freaking last. You know what? For you to go out and whatever that race is, it doesn't even have to be hard rock. It can be the smallest hundred mile race out there, you know, just some small backyard one that only gets ten people to do it, and you're the last person and you're barely coming in a cutoff, it's impressive. It is so cool to see. And you find something different about yourself, you go deep, you you you do something that you feel is almost impossible. It's a beautiful thing. And that's I think that's what's so beautiful about running. And dude, I just I just appreciate having you on. Like everything you shared, your story is gonna is gonna just I I think it's in a lot of ways I feel like this was really good for you to share because I feel like you've been able to decompress it a little bit. I know that was something you kind of had mentioned to me before, but hearing the story is inspiring, dude, and you're gonna inspire and again, I know that's not necessarily maybe your intention and it wasn't necessarily what you were looking for to do, but hearing this story, I'm just like, wow, like I can't wait to get back out and get you know, tomorrow and get training for Wasatch again, right? I got Wasatch here in a month and a half and and then, you know, bear a couple weeks after that and I'm like, let's go, dude. Like, you know, like and again, I I always say like you you can't live on inspiration, you can't live on motivation 'cause it's fleeting. You gotta you gotta be consistent. You gotta be dedicated. But it it is good once in a while to get a shot of it and just be like, you know what? I needed to hear this 'cause this is gonna motivate me to you know, help help inspire me to keep getting after it and and push. And so, dude, just thank you. Thank you for for what you shared here. And I think I can't wait to opa share this episode with people because I think ⁓ it's gonna be really good for people to hear what it's like to to go the distance at Hard Rock and and for someone who really actually just crushed it and finished top ten. Like just an inspiring story. So dude, I really appreciate it. I know we're we've ran a little bit long here, but ⁓ Alex: Yeah. Yeah, so weird, man. Ryan Head: Yeah, but this has been absolutely amazing. So, you know, without without further ado, dude, one last question I'll throw at you, and then we'll wrap it up. If it and and again, it's kind of hard for me to ask because you've kind of you you've like answered every one of these questions. I don't know how what else to add like No. It's good. It's good because I'm like my question that I'm gonna ask you, I'm like, you've already answered it like ten times. ⁓ it's the same question I end with every every person I have on. If ⁓ Alex: I speak in circles, man, you know, I just like yeah, I can't help. But do but go ahead and ask. Ryan Head: If someone right now has lost their why, whether that's with running, or whether that's with life, what what what bit of information or what bit of advice would you share with them? Alex: You know, like it's Everybody's moments, their highs and lows are completely different, you know, and and the highest of highs or the lowest of lows, like everyone is like a a little shifted, you know. And so, man, some people can be in, you know, when you lose your why, it's like it can be pretty bad. ⁓ and and and it can be bad, but you can almost not even understand how to describe it to people. You can have no idea. what your next step should be. You know, you you can think that like life has totally turned to monochrome. It's kinda lost its color. Like you don't even understand how to like see that color again. and so there's not, you know, I I I think I think it's a it's a it's a couple different tiers. There's a couple things you gotta do is like the first and foremost is like everybody's community is different, you know, and and some people don't feel like they have a community and some people haven't found their community, some people have a large one, but community, you know, if you have it, if you have a friend, if you have a mom, if you have a dad, if you don't talk to those people because you're you you you you're on the outs with them or whatever, like if you have somebody, I think that community is a great place to start. ⁓ you you need it somewhere. I you know, you guys do great work at the run club on Saturdays, so you lose your why. It's like, well, where's that community? You know, and and that community to a person that talks negatively in their head, that community might be like, Well, I got one or two people, I haven't talked to them in six months. And because I haven't talked to them in six months, my brain's telling me that they like they think I don't like them anymore, like they've already written me off as like too far gone for them to interact with anymore, but you're not. Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: You know where your couple people in the world are. And you know that when you pick up the phone and call them or text them or go see them or have dinner with them, you know, as intimate as you can get is what I would promote. ⁓ that they're the people that you shake the dust off and you're right back to like square one with them, you know. ⁓ so I I think that's very important. You can do a lot of things on your own. But if you really lost your why, ⁓ it's important to have that community, you know. And and I guess the only other thing I would pair with that, there's probably many other things you could do. I guess there's two things, because there's like professional help. If you have the ability to go and talk to a professional, especially if you don't think like you have a community, I would highly encourage it. That's like super important. The only other thing I would pair with that is say, like, you know, what's something that's not social media? Ryan Head: Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Uh-huh. Alex: that like makes you laugh and smile genuinely. And even if it is like your favorite movie, like that's great too. But if there's something more tangible than that, if you like walking down a path and like and and like Ryan Head: Yeah. Alex: seeing the ducks get up ahead of you and scamper into the pond because you pushed them there, but that makes you chuckle because they're so beautiful and weird. Like you should do that, you know? Like whatever it is, it's like what makes you smile and laugh. And then like community. Even if it's tough, take that leap of faith and reach out to that community, ⁓ whether it's at your fingertips or if it feels unachievable, like reach out to your friends and ⁓ and and just try to look for those little things that make you smile. And I think day by day, that does like that that won't change it. You get a nice little genuine smile out of the ducks walk running into the pond or whatever, like it doesn't change your whole life. But if it can give you enough motivation to go like, You know what, I'm gonna see them them ducks like three times a week, you know. it might lead into what you're talking about, which is consistency of working at something that provides you with meaning. ⁓ and that's what you do so well. If you look at Ryan's Strava, he's not the runner I am. I don't run in the mornings, man. ⁓ and I mean that in a way that's saying like you are committed, dude. Like clockwork, you're out on that. Ryan Head: Whatever. Alex: Same piece of trail, weekday mornings. You do change it up, but like I just look at top down. I just like look at the general area. I'm like, he's over on the edge of Layton again, man, running that BST. He's doing it every freaking morning, man. and I see it at like 8 50 a.m. I'm like, I rolled out of bed at like 8 30. I'm like, I gotta go work, man. ⁓ and then I'm like, there's Ryan again. Damn, dude. Like he's crushing. I'm an evening runner for the most part, but Ryan Head: Thanks. Yeah. Alex: Find that community, find that happy place, put a little consistency in with those two things. And, you know, remember that like the low times are temporary just like they are in a race. Even though sometimes they can last for months in the real world, ⁓ maybe years, for sure years for some people. There's definitely they can be temporary. If you focus a little bit, just a little bit, you can you can find that little bit of joy in life and get through it. Ryan Head: Yeah. I love it. Dude, thank you. And I love it because you know, a lot we've had people on here that say community as well. But I do love that you said find something that just makes you happy. I nothing whenever I find something that brings me happiness, like my daughters, my wife, you know, these these little things. I mean, as much as silly as it may sound, my cat, ⁓ my cat brings me happiness, man. As weird as it may be for some people that don't like cats, like My cat is just the thing that one of the things that just brings me so much joy and and you're right, it can bring it can bring you up. So I love that dude. Thank you for sharing that and and thank you for your kind words too. That means a lot. And you know, I always just say I'm not a fantastic athlete, but one thing I I will say is I'm probably the most consistent and and the most stubborn person out there. So I I may not be gifted physically, but I'm gonna give it my all and try my best. So Alex: Well, yeah, you you are, man. Again, it's like metrics aside, like that's where it's like, you know, what are we doing this for? You know, we're we're working to ring out our own sponge of potential on where we're at, you know? And there are things in life that like if you graded them, you would be better than me at. If you're grading the performance of running, I guess that changes things, but ⁓ Ryan Head: Yep, exactly. Alex: You should always just grade yours I you know, grade yourself, hold yourself accountable to the peers that you surround yourself in that grade and like do do your best, man, and forget the rest. That's what Tony Horton says who did P90X. That's a little throwback there. Ryan Head: There we go. P90X. There we go. I like that. That's good. Well, awesome. Well, Alex, dude, it has been a pleasure to have you on. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. So much great advice. So many great tidbits. And what a fantastic journey that you shared with us, dude. It's it truly has been a pleasure. So awesome. Well, dude, thank you. Thank you for your time tonight. Thanks for spending a few hours with me. And please tell the missus thank you as well. Alex: Yeah. Yeah, thanks too, Ryan. I I really appreciate your time, man. Appreciate you letting me tell my story. Ryan Head: Okay, awesome, thanks man. ⁓