Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1083: Back 40 - Are You Wasting Time Waiting on a Buck to Show Up?

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Ep. 1083: Back 40 - Are You Wasting Time Waiting on a Buck to Show Up? · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: What is going on? This is Jake Hofer and welcome
0:02
Speaker 1: to another episode of Back 40. We are here with
0:06
Speaker 1: a new fresh panel of guests for now until the
0:10
Speaker 1: end of the year. And so leading up to this point,
0:14
Speaker 1: we had talked about all the different dilemmas and questions
0:17
Speaker 1: that lead into the season and now we're already into. mid-October.
0:21
Speaker 1: And so each week we're diving into something that will
0:24
Speaker 1: hopefully provide you a sense of direction and guidance through
0:28
Speaker 1: the end of the year and capitalizing on the remaining
0:31
Speaker 1: of October and hunting through November and December and so
0:34
Speaker 1: much more. So I want to take a chance to
0:36
Speaker 1: introduce our new panel. And so we have Tony LaPrat,
0:40
Speaker 1: met up with Tony in Michigan when we're recording his
0:43
Speaker 1: Whitetail Cribs episode. And Tony runs a boot camp, is
0:47
Speaker 1: really one of the original pioneers of whitetail consultants, a
0:53
Speaker 1: thought leader, and ultimately has not done a lot of
0:57
Speaker 1: podcasts in the past. So it's a real pleasure to
0:58
Speaker 1: have him on this leg of Back 40. Tony has
1:03
Speaker 1: a very unique perspective and has really, honestly, and I
1:07
Speaker 1: mean this, come up with some unique tactics of hunting
1:11
Speaker 1: pressured bucks. He hunts in Michigan on his farm that
1:14
Speaker 1: he's worked on over the years. And have Dr. Bronson
1:19
Speaker 1: Strickland and Dr.
1:20
Speaker 2: Deer.
1:21
Speaker 1: You may know him as that as well. Has been
1:23
Speaker 1: a longtime professor at Mississippi State. A lot of the
1:26
Speaker 1: deer research that we reference that we've been interested in
1:29
Speaker 1: in the past, Dr. Strickland has had a hand in it.
1:31
Speaker 1: So some of these guests are more big picture hunting strategy.
1:35
Speaker 1: And what I really liked about having Bronson on was
1:37
Speaker 1: him tying in research data throughout now until the end
1:41
Speaker 1: of the year. And so we have Dr. Strickland as
1:43
Speaker 1: our second guest. And then we have Jason Michael. You
1:46
Speaker 1: may not know who jason michael is he's been bow
1:48
Speaker 1: hunting for a very long time across the entire country
1:52
Speaker 1: very very relatable and very positive he is the pep
1:56
Speaker 1: talk in each episode that we all need as we
1:58
Speaker 1: get through sometimes an exciting time of the year and
2:02
Speaker 1: sometimes a frustrating time of the year and jason brings
2:04
Speaker 1: in that perspective each episode. And then lastly, we have
2:08
Speaker 1: Skip Sly, originally from Michigan, lives in Iowa. And I
2:11
Speaker 1: think it would be fair to say he is one
2:13
Speaker 1: of the most successful Habitat managers. And what I mean
2:16
Speaker 1: by that is from being strategic with TSI, selectively shooting bucks,
2:22
Speaker 1: being in tune with the land, understanding deer behavior and
2:25
Speaker 1: deer patterns. We have Skip working through the end of
2:28
Speaker 1: the year. So those are our new panel of guests.
2:30
Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoy this fresh panel as we
2:34
Speaker 1: get through the rest of the year. This is a
2:36
Speaker 1: much longer intro than what I necessarily anticipated, but I
2:39
Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoy it. We're going to kick things
2:41
Speaker 1: off with Tony LaPrat, and here is this week's episode
2:45
Speaker 1: of Back 40 presented by Moultrie. All right, Tony, it's
2:55
Speaker 1: October 15th in this scenario. Guys have had velvet pictures
3:01
Speaker 1: or maybe even bucks that weren't on them during velvet season.
3:04
Speaker 1: And now, you know, late September, early October, there's this
3:08
Speaker 1: buck that's kind of hanging around a little bit. But
3:10
Speaker 1: as you know, you typically don't start hunting until October 25th.
3:13
Speaker 1: There's usually more deer that move around in the later
3:15
Speaker 1: half of October versus the first half of October talking
3:19
Speaker 1: about you know, bucks moving around. So the question is
3:22
Speaker 1: somewhat simple, but should I be hunting the deer I
3:24
Speaker 1: have now on camera from summer to now, October 15th,
3:29
Speaker 1: or should I be more excited on what potentially shows
3:32
Speaker 1: up for the next three or four weeks in your experience?
3:35
Speaker 3: Well, basically you should never shoot nothing that you're not
3:38
Speaker 3: happy with.
3:40
Speaker 2: Okay.
3:40
Speaker 3: So if the buck early is something that you'd be
3:43
Speaker 3: very proud of, then I see no reason why not
3:46
Speaker 3: to try to get him. But usually, if you haven't
3:50
Speaker 3: been killing big bucks on a really consistent basis on
3:54
Speaker 3: that property, there's probably a chance the bigger bucks are
3:57
Speaker 3: going to come later. And if you really want to
3:59
Speaker 3: try to kill a better buck, I would be waiting
4:02
Speaker 3: for that buck. And at that time, the bucks are
4:05
Speaker 3: very You should only hunt a couple of times in
4:08
Speaker 3: the early season, in my opinion. And if you don't
4:11
Speaker 3: get him, you need to get out of there because
4:14
Speaker 3: these bucks have a hundred reasons why they may not
4:16
Speaker 3: move and you're leaving clues. So I'm notorious for waiting
4:20
Speaker 3: till the scrape period. And a lot of guys don't
4:23
Speaker 3: realize every 10 days, roughly to 15 days, that buck's
4:27
Speaker 3: got a whole different mindset. So in the early season,
4:31
Speaker 3: they could still be transitioning to a new spot and
4:34
Speaker 3: And another thing people should know about this to help
4:38
Speaker 3: guys understand big bucks and deer is in the summertime,
4:43
Speaker 3: especially in the early summer and early spring, you should
4:49
Speaker 3: not have the buck you want to kill living on
4:51
Speaker 3: your property unless you own a lot of land. Because
4:54
Speaker 3: the does kick the bucks off the best habitat to
4:58
Speaker 3: have their fawns because there's thick cover, lots of food,
5:01
Speaker 3: a lot of places. So the bucks usually are summering
5:05
Speaker 3: in a park effect woods, bigger bean fields, and you
5:09
Speaker 3: can see them from long ways away. But when he
5:12
Speaker 3: gets his velvet off, that's the place he'll never visit
5:15
Speaker 3: until nighttime from now on. So my big bucks on
5:18
Speaker 3: my property live on my neighbors in the summer. But
5:22
Speaker 3: then once their velvet comes off, they all come back
5:25
Speaker 3: home because the does don't kick at them. And now
5:27
Speaker 3: they're living in my river and all my bedding areas
5:30
Speaker 3: through the fall. And next year, they're getting all kicked off.
5:33
Speaker 3: So the more you get information on how deer are
5:36
Speaker 3: doing things makes you make better decisions. And that's what
5:40
Speaker 3: a lot of guys haven't got a great game plan
5:44
Speaker 3: for what their deer are doing, why they're there, and
5:46
Speaker 3: why they're not. First thing I would want to do
5:49
Speaker 3: is why ain't he there later? if you ain't got
5:52
Speaker 3: big bucks. There is a reason. And until you change it,
5:56
Speaker 3: you're going to live Groundhog Day over and over. And
5:59
Speaker 3: a lot of guys, that's why in a 10-year period,
6:01
Speaker 3: they only get a couple of bucks that are really
6:03
Speaker 3: nice because they got too many pieces of the puzzle missing.
6:07
Speaker 3: So there's no easy answer. But all I would say
6:11
Speaker 3: is if that's your standard, Then you should make your
6:15
Speaker 3: move on that buck and give him a shot. But
6:18
Speaker 3: you got to remember, I don't like to hunt an
6:20
Speaker 3: upswing in temperature. I like only a downswing in temperatures.
6:24
Speaker 3: And you want to hunt a front even early. Use
6:27
Speaker 3: everything to your advantage when you make your move. Don't
6:31
Speaker 3: just go because it's Thursday and you got time.
6:34
Speaker 1: Why do you think, you know, that scrape period, if
6:39
Speaker 1: you had to, jump in the deer's brain, why they
6:42
Speaker 1: expand so rapidly or, or completely shift to new areas where,
6:46
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't have them in the summer, hardly ever,
6:48
Speaker 1: you didn't really have them in September, hardly, you know,
6:51
Speaker 1: at all, but then come October 25th to November 25th,
6:55
Speaker 1: they're there. Is it, why do you think that is?
7:00
Speaker 3: Break it down very simple.
7:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:02
Speaker 3: From the day a buck is born, he lives his
7:06
Speaker 3: whole life for two weeks. That's his mindset. So in
7:10
Speaker 3: the spring, the salmon go upstream. They know nothing else.
7:14
Speaker 3: That's what they do. They spawn upstream. A buck, that's
7:18
Speaker 3: why he hits licking branches 12 months out of the year.
7:22
Speaker 3: He's getting ready for that two weeks. And that's why
7:25
Speaker 3: all year long, he's figuring out where he's going to
7:27
Speaker 3: make scrapes. And as soon as that velvet comes off,
7:31
Speaker 3: he makes a move to every one of them branches
7:33
Speaker 3: because that's all his mind is set. He is literally
7:37
Speaker 3: there to reproduce. And he is a travel quarter. So, guys,
7:42
Speaker 3: you need to make sure that yours is the social
7:46
Speaker 3: hub of all these different bucks. Even if you can't
7:49
Speaker 3: control the bedding area because of your farm, you need
7:52
Speaker 3: to make it the social hub where they believe that's
7:54
Speaker 3: the best place to communicate with the girls and other bucks.
7:57
Speaker 3: They hate competition. The more bucks you make go to
8:00
Speaker 3: your property, the more the other bucks want to go
8:02
Speaker 3: there because they're trying to compete. So, again, it's all
8:07
Speaker 3: about understanding the animals. And that's why I'm always plugging
8:11
Speaker 3: my boot camp. At the boot camp, we cover hundreds
8:14
Speaker 3: of things, and I get people to understand not just
8:17
Speaker 3: deer behavior, big buck behavior, why they do what they do,
8:21
Speaker 3: why every 10 days you need to be having this
8:23
Speaker 3: by your stands. And then... understand how to fix your property,
8:27
Speaker 3: that's what they want. Properties are not at 10% of
8:31
Speaker 3: their potential. And even the guys that put in food
8:33
Speaker 3: plots and think they're doing a great job, they're only
8:35
Speaker 3: about 25%. And they don't realize it's the little things
8:40
Speaker 3: that make the big difference. It's never the big thing.
8:42
Speaker 3: Putting in a big food plot, he'll eat from 10
8:44
Speaker 3: o'clock at night until three in the morning. Did you
8:46
Speaker 3: no good.
8:47
Speaker 1: Give us one little thing that would be beneficial for
8:50
Speaker 1: someone from now to the end of October that they
8:52
Speaker 1: could implement still. If they listen to it today and
8:55
Speaker 1: they go do it.
8:55
Speaker 3: Make sure that you have the branches available for the
8:58
Speaker 3: books to scrape on. And you've got to understand they
9:01
Speaker 3: want lots of licking branches. And you've got all kinds
9:05
Speaker 3: of opinions on the Internet. You know what the Internet does?
9:08
Speaker 3: It lets everyone have an opinion. The problem is 99%
9:11
Speaker 3: of them should keep quiet because I honestly believe if
9:14
Speaker 3: you're going to talk, And you want people to listen,
9:17
Speaker 3: have some real information. This buck wants to make tons
9:22
Speaker 3: of scrapes. He makes scrapes all night long. A hundred
9:24
Speaker 3: scrapes for an average buck is nothing to hit in
9:26
Speaker 3: a night.
9:27
Speaker 2: Okay?
9:28
Speaker 3: And then you've got guys who tell you to put one. Oh,
9:31
Speaker 3: you want to know. That means 99% of all the
9:33
Speaker 3: deer activities on somebody else's property. That's the other side
9:36
Speaker 3: they don't think about.
9:37
Speaker 1: So you think that they're urged to lay down all
9:39
Speaker 1: that sign. They'll just go somewhere else to lay down
9:41
Speaker 1: that sign.
9:41
Speaker 3: That's it. They ain't quitting. It's like when they breed,
9:43
Speaker 3: they're going to breed five to six does. You only
9:45
Speaker 3: got one for them. It ain't that he goes, well,
9:48
Speaker 3: I'll just get one this year. No, he's going to
9:50
Speaker 3: find five or six other does, and he don't care
9:52
Speaker 3: if he travels three to four miles. He'll do the
9:54
Speaker 3: same thing with scrapes. People don't realize they have a
9:56
Speaker 3: certain thing they're going to do every day at different times.
9:59
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
10:00
Speaker 3: And if you only have this much, and they're going
10:03
Speaker 3: to do this much, and this is all the farm
10:05
Speaker 3: you used up, you are never going to be a
10:07
Speaker 3: guy that piles up big bucks and do it in
10:09
Speaker 3: a couple of days. Because why? You don't have enough
10:12
Speaker 3: of the puzzle. And I show guys how to put–
10:15
Speaker 3: I'd rather have– 30 scrapes that never get hit than
10:18
Speaker 3: to have 30 that they never did. Ain't even available.
10:21
Speaker 4: Right.
10:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think that's, that's a great, great piece.
10:25
Speaker 1: We're going to have you on next week to, to
10:27
Speaker 1: work us all the way to the end of the year.
10:29
Speaker 1: Real quick. Tell us again who you are, and if
10:32
Speaker 1: someone wants to learn more, what's the best way to
10:33
Speaker 1: track you down?
10:34
Speaker 3: Well, I'm Tony LaPrate, and I run the Whitetail Boot Camp,
10:38
Speaker 3: and I do the ultimate land management. My boot camps,
10:41
Speaker 3: I've done over 200 boot camps. I've been doing them
10:45
Speaker 3: for 30 years. I've been doing land managements and 25
10:48
Speaker 3: years on the boot camps. And I've done several hundred
10:52
Speaker 3: of them, and the land management, I've done over 2,400.
10:54
Speaker 2: Wow.
10:55
Speaker 3: And I've been in 31 states. And, guys, I'm one
10:59
Speaker 3: of these guys, you don't find a ton online about
11:02
Speaker 3: me and stuff because I'm a guy that I'm the
11:05
Speaker 3: busiest man in the whitetail world in land management and school.
11:09
Speaker 4: Yeah.
11:10
Speaker 3: I don't need it because word of mouth is what
11:13
Speaker 3: keeps busy.
11:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, when we grabbed lunch, I said, how many miles
11:16
Speaker 1: on this truck? Nice new truck, and two years old,
11:19
Speaker 1: it's 120-some thousand miles.
11:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I do.
11:22
Speaker 1: There you have it. There's Tony's perspective on what to do.
11:26
Speaker 1: Do you make a move now? Do you wait till later?
11:28
Speaker 1: And so much more. So I hope you guys enjoyed
11:29
Speaker 1: Tony's take on this. Now we're going to jump into Dr.
11:32
Speaker 1: Bronson Strickland's perspective on this specific question. All right, Dr. Strickland,
11:39
Speaker 1: welcome to the next series of Back 40. You're one
11:43
Speaker 1: of the new experts I've brought in, and I'm going
11:45
Speaker 1: to be asking you questions biweekly, all the way till
11:50
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve. And so we're going to meander through the
11:53
Speaker 1: remaining of this year as a whitetail hunter, as someone
11:56
Speaker 1: that has a lot of questions, a lot of dilemmas,
11:58
Speaker 1: all these different things. And so to kick things off,
12:01
Speaker 1: right now, people have been running cameras throughout all summer.
12:04
Speaker 1: We've gotten through September. We're halfway through October, and there's
12:08
Speaker 1: a lot of shifting going on. And right now, someone
12:10
Speaker 1: is thinking, man, I don't know what to do. This deer,
12:14
Speaker 1: this one's getting a little bit more consistent. This one,
12:16
Speaker 1: other one's getting less consistent. And to boil all that
12:19
Speaker 1: emotion related to this question, is should I be hunting
12:23
Speaker 1: the deer I have or the deer I hope to
12:25
Speaker 1: show up? Someone's sitting like, man, if season ended today
12:28
Speaker 1: on October 15th, I don't know if I would be
12:30
Speaker 1: all that excited. So what's your opinion?
12:35
Speaker 5: Well, I would say both. And how I would qualify
12:41
Speaker 5: that would be we see with movement behavior, there are
12:45
Speaker 5: some distinct differences in some bucks. And what I mean
12:49
Speaker 5: by that is There are going to be some bucks
12:51
Speaker 5: that show a great deal of site fidelity, even from
12:56
Speaker 5: where they are at bachelor group and bachelor group breakup.
13:02
Speaker 5: They're going to remain there all the way through the rut.
13:04
Speaker 5: They generally don't move from their home range. They just
13:09
Speaker 5: utilize different parts of their home range. But then you
13:12
Speaker 5: have another group of bucks, about a third of them,
13:15
Speaker 5: maybe more, maybe less. They are going to do very
13:18
Speaker 5: distinct shifts. And it begins typically with right after bachelor
13:24
Speaker 5: group breakup down here, that's going to be in September.
13:28
Speaker 5: So the data are really clear. There's their home range
13:31
Speaker 5: and the center of it during the summer. And then
13:34
Speaker 5: you'll see a shift in September for us. And then
13:38
Speaker 5: you will see another shift in November, kind of the pre-rut.
13:45
Speaker 5: And for us, remember, our rut's going to be mainly
13:47
Speaker 5: in December, not November. So right prior to the rut,
13:50
Speaker 5: another shift. So it really is, it's early in the episode,
13:56
Speaker 5: and I'm already going to say it depends. It depends
13:58
Speaker 5: on what kind of buck it is. Some of them
14:00
Speaker 5: are going to be there, show a lot of sight fidelity.
14:01
Speaker 5: Some of them are going to move. The good news is,
14:05
Speaker 5: is that if you have history with a buck, seeing
14:08
Speaker 5: it year after year or photos of it, if he's
14:11
Speaker 5: going to shift, they typically do it every year. So
14:15
Speaker 5: in other words, if he shifted the last year and
14:17
Speaker 5: moved on your property in November, probably going to move
14:20
Speaker 5: on your property in November again this year.
14:23
Speaker 1: So to boil that down a little bit more is
14:26
Speaker 1: if you're in the camp of, I'm hoping this deer
14:28
Speaker 1: shows up, it's not naive to bank on that. Because
14:33
Speaker 1: I think some people, and this has become a lot
14:35
Speaker 1: more common and accepted, but there's still a group or
14:39
Speaker 1: a camp when, you know, if I said, hey, Dr. Strickland,
14:41
Speaker 1: I got this buck, he's going to show up late October.
14:43
Speaker 1: And that's when my season really starts. That's much more
14:47
Speaker 1: accepted than what it probably would have been what would
14:49
Speaker 1: you say, five or six, seven years ago? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
14:55
Speaker 5: If he's alive, assuming he didn't die during the summer,
14:58
Speaker 5: but yeah, I think it's very reliable he will show
15:01
Speaker 5: back up again.
15:01
Speaker 1: I know most of your research has been in the South.
15:06
Speaker 1: As far as the Midwest, would it be a fair
15:09
Speaker 1: assumption to say from the 15th to the end of
15:13
Speaker 1: October is likely when that rush shift may occur? I
15:16
Speaker 1: know it depends, but if we could just overgeneralize Is
15:19
Speaker 1: that a fair assumption?
15:21
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I would generalize and say the month before
15:25
Speaker 5: rut month. So it even makes me think, too, for
15:29
Speaker 5: you guys in the Midwest about the October lull we
15:32
Speaker 5: hear about. So my interpretation is that it's not a lull.
15:37
Speaker 1: It's a shift.
15:39
Speaker 5: They are moving. So you were getting a buck on camera,
15:42
Speaker 5: and now you're not or not as frequently. I think
15:44
Speaker 5: they're just moving and changing their home range a little bit.
15:48
Speaker 5: And so you don't see them as frequently or don't
15:49
Speaker 5: see them at all.
15:50
Speaker 1: If you had to put your finger on it, do
15:52
Speaker 1: you think that part of that shift, is it in
15:55
Speaker 1: relation to does or in relation to the habitat changing
15:59
Speaker 1: so drastically throughout the Midwest in that month? Right now,
16:02
Speaker 1: I think on the 8th here today, 17% of row
16:06
Speaker 1: crops in Illinois are picked. And so that's going to
16:09
Speaker 1: continue to exponentially increase as we get deeper. So is
16:12
Speaker 1: it the does in relation to habitat? Or is it
16:15
Speaker 1: solely habitat, if you had to just arbitrarily say?
16:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you had to speculate. To me, I think
16:22
Speaker 5: it would be, I mean, it's got to be food
16:24
Speaker 5: and cover. You know, those are the requirements of life.
16:27
Speaker 5: But I would add in, there's probably also some social
16:31
Speaker 5: aspect to that as well, relative to buck hierarchies and
16:35
Speaker 5: dominance and all that. Where are they going to fit in?
16:39
Speaker 5: and have a spot where they're not going to maybe
16:42
Speaker 5: be as harassed. So maybe if they're a middle-aged buck,
16:45
Speaker 5: where can they move in to where they're not going
16:47
Speaker 5: to overlap as much with maybe a more dominant buck? Again, speculation,
16:52
Speaker 5: but I think that could play a role as well.
17:02
Speaker 1: Okay, so for someone that's listening to this on October 15th,
17:06
Speaker 1: and they're just in a holding pattern, tell them to
17:08
Speaker 1: take a deep breath and stay the course of this
17:11
Speaker 1: plan that they've developed since the end of last year?
17:14
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Stay the course.
17:16
Speaker 2: Okay.
17:17
Speaker 1: That's what I need to hear. That's what a lot
17:18
Speaker 1: of people need to hear. So it's helpful to share that.
17:22
Speaker 1: Anything else that comes to mind when it comes to
17:24
Speaker 1: mid-October deer behavior from your neck of the woods or
17:28
Speaker 1: all the way up further north? Um.
17:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, y'all, you know, you're a month ahead
17:35
Speaker 5: of us. So, you know, right now we're still getting
17:39
Speaker 5: photos of bucks that are out of velvet and just
17:42
Speaker 5: trying to figure out what your inventory is for bow season.
17:46
Speaker 5: And then there's going to be a change probably before
17:48
Speaker 5: gun season. To me, it would be running as many
17:52
Speaker 5: cameras as I could and figuring out if a buck
17:57
Speaker 5: was on a particular part of the property that finding
18:00
Speaker 5: out maybe where he moved to a different part of
18:02
Speaker 5: the property, especially if it's a big, large acreage property.
18:06
Speaker 5: That would be what I would focus on. I would
18:08
Speaker 5: also be using that opportunity to look at age of
18:12
Speaker 5: the bucks. And, you know, harvesting good bucks too young
18:18
Speaker 5: is the downfall of so many management programs. People want
18:23
Speaker 5: 180s and above, but You got to pass them when
18:26
Speaker 5: they're 150s and they're three or four if you're going
18:29
Speaker 5: to do that. So use that time before you have
18:32
Speaker 5: the adrenaline and he's in front of you at 30
18:34
Speaker 5: yards and make that decision now with photo evidence.
18:38
Speaker 1: I think that's a healthy exercise. Definitely a healthy exercise. Well,
18:44
Speaker 1: where is the best place for people to find what
18:47
Speaker 1: you have going on in 2026?
18:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
18:51
Speaker 5: Just go to either social media or a website, wildlifeinvestments.com,
18:57
Speaker 5: and there you can learn about me and the team
19:00
Speaker 5: and the services that we offer. Essentially, we help people
19:04
Speaker 5: manage their land, whether it be a leased property or
19:07
Speaker 5: an owned property, but we help them fulfill their objectives,
19:12
Speaker 5: and we use science-based solutions.
19:14
Speaker 1: Is that primarily focused in the south, or do you
19:16
Speaker 1: venture out further than the southeast?
19:19
Speaker 2: We do.
19:20
Speaker 5: Certainly a majority of our properties are in the South.
19:23
Speaker 5: But yes, we have some in the Midwest. We have
19:26
Speaker 5: some in Texas and some on the East Coast. So
19:28
Speaker 5: we're everywhere.
19:30
Speaker 1: Very cool. Well, thank you for this insight. We're going
19:33
Speaker 1: to take a two-week break and we'll be back with
19:35
Speaker 1: another dilemma. All right, next up we have Jason Michael.
19:38
Speaker 1: Like I said, Jason, he's going to be our North
19:40
Speaker 1: Star of having a good attitude and not getting caught
19:42
Speaker 1: up in this season. And here's Jason's perspective on are
19:46
Speaker 1: you wasting time waiting on a buck to show up?
19:48
Speaker 1: All right, it's October 15th. And I've been watching this
19:53
Speaker 1: deer through August, September, first part of October, and we're
19:59
Speaker 1: in the middle of the month of October. And there's
20:01
Speaker 1: a lot of things that are about to change. So
20:02
Speaker 1: my simple question to you, should I be hunting the
20:05
Speaker 1: deer I have right here right now, or should I
20:08
Speaker 1: be hoping for a deer to show up in the
20:10
Speaker 1: next two weeks, later part of October. So based off
20:12
Speaker 1: of all your experience of hunting public land, permission, hunting
20:17
Speaker 1: for a very, very long time, and picking up on patterns,
20:19
Speaker 1: what is your opinion on that question?
20:23
Speaker 4: That's a dang good one. So what I'm going to
20:26
Speaker 4: say is what I told a friend probably 15 years ago,
20:30
Speaker 4: and I meant for it to come across in a
20:31
Speaker 4: nice way when I told him, and I'm probably going
20:36
Speaker 4: to tell you or that individual to be just a
20:39
Speaker 4: touch greedy. You want the best of both worlds. And
20:41
Speaker 4: I would tell you to stay intent on both those deer.
20:45
Speaker 4: The deer you're going to hunt currently right now that
20:48
Speaker 4: you've got history with in the last up to maybe
20:51
Speaker 4: the last two, three days, you've still getting pictures of him.
20:53
Speaker 4: Or you're going to hope that something shows up in
20:58
Speaker 4: the event that you go over the next 10 days
21:00
Speaker 4: and get through maybe even the scrape period. We get
21:02
Speaker 4: in past maybe November 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and then boom.
21:06
Speaker 4: something daylight's on you that you had no knowledge of,
21:09
Speaker 4: not back through minerals, not back through acorn drop in
21:12
Speaker 4: late September, early October, boom, a new deer shows up.
21:15
Speaker 4: So now you have two deer to hunt potentially. So
21:18
Speaker 4: stick to your game plan, hunt deer one. It sounds
21:22
Speaker 4: like you said the October 15th. So we got the
21:24
Speaker 4: 20th through the 25th coming up. And this year is
21:27
Speaker 4: an October 26th full moon. So I'm going to revolve
21:30
Speaker 4: some things around that because of the peak daytime activity.
21:33
Speaker 4: I'm going to hunt the heck out of that deer
21:35
Speaker 4: the best I can based on what I think he
21:37
Speaker 4: is doing for bedding. As always, I use this same analogy.
21:42
Speaker 4: He's going to get up, stretch, and he's got a
21:45
Speaker 4: mindset of where he's going to go. He's not just
21:48
Speaker 4: going to walk around at random at that time of
21:50
Speaker 4: the year. He is heading to a destination, probably down
21:53
Speaker 4: his scrape line, probably down a combination of his rub line.
21:57
Speaker 4: and he's probably going to a food destination because of
21:59
Speaker 4: the does that are going to be there. And I'm
22:01
Speaker 4: going to try and intercept him at that time of
22:03
Speaker 4: the year. I'm going to do my absolute best, proper wins,
22:07
Speaker 4: fronts coming and going, and try and kill that deer
22:10
Speaker 4: the 20th through the 30th.
22:11
Speaker 1: How often for someone that's like, man, I wish I
22:14
Speaker 1: knew of a deer that I've been watching for the
22:15
Speaker 1: last couple weeks, and it's already mid-October, and I'm kind
22:18
Speaker 1: of sitting back on my heels. Do you think that
22:22
Speaker 1: some folks should have some optimism for what may or
22:24
Speaker 1: may show up in the next Two weeks?
22:26
Speaker 4: 100% always from this day forward.
22:30
Speaker 2: It just happens.
22:32
Speaker 4: And especially for a guy that's maybe got some private
22:34
Speaker 4: land permission, doesn't got to be a true landowner and
22:37
Speaker 4: have 100, 200, 300 acres where he's got a tremendous
22:41
Speaker 4: amount of knowledge of deer at three and four and
22:43
Speaker 4: five years old. They're there every year and they're getting
22:45
Speaker 4: bigger and bigger and bigger. But yeah, you just want
22:49
Speaker 4: to be ready to strike, move in, get the job
22:54
Speaker 4: done as quick as possible. And in the event that
22:56
Speaker 4: it doesn't work, optimism, absolutely. Because first, second, third, fourth, fifth,
23:01
Speaker 4: sixth of November, there's just that deer that has that lifestyle.
23:07
Speaker 4: That's when he shows up on some people's farms.
23:11
Speaker 1: How often have you seen where you've followed this deer loosely?
23:14
Speaker 1: It's not like he was there every single day, but
23:17
Speaker 1: two or three times a week in September, three or
23:20
Speaker 1: four times a week, maybe in the first part of October,
23:23
Speaker 1: how often do they you know, there's a complete reshuffle
23:26
Speaker 1: and you know, you were sitting here on October 15th
23:29
Speaker 1: and I haven't got him for two or three days.
23:30
Speaker 1: And I don't know if he's going to come back again.
23:33
Speaker 1: Is there, you've been able to pick up on any
23:35
Speaker 1: pattern like that over the years?
23:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:36
Speaker 4: And for me, to be honest with you again, pretty
23:39
Speaker 4: much a public land hunter, but dealing with some of
23:41
Speaker 4: these private farms, I'll give this example right now. I'm
23:45
Speaker 4: watching probably three deer this year between Iowa and Ohio.
23:54
Speaker 4: and I predict one of those deer is going to
23:56
Speaker 4: stay around, and I got a legitimate shot to get
23:59
Speaker 4: an arrow in him. The other two, I would almost
24:01
Speaker 4: bet my truck that they're going to disappear, and I
24:04
Speaker 4: won't see them after October 10th or 15th ever again,
24:07
Speaker 4: not even late season. They're just gone, and that's that
24:10
Speaker 4: particular deer.
24:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a game of chance, and the more data,
24:14
Speaker 1: the more bucks you have to potentially hunt, the better
24:17
Speaker 1: your odds simply get. So that's part of it. And then,
24:21
Speaker 1: to your point, having a sense of optimism of, Hey,
24:23
Speaker 1: if I'm not sitting in a great spot right now,
24:25
Speaker 1: it's going to get better. It's going to get better
24:26
Speaker 1: from here on out. So that's a great thing. Jason,
24:29
Speaker 1: where can people follow you?
24:30
Speaker 4: JasonMichael803 on Instagram. That's all I really got. And we'll
24:35
Speaker 4: just leave it at that.
24:36
Speaker 1: And last but not least, we have Skip Sly closing
24:38
Speaker 1: out this episode of Back 40. Here we go. All right.
24:43
Speaker 1: It's October 15th.
24:44
Speaker 2: Okay.
24:46
Speaker 1: And people have had summer pictures. Maybe now they're hard
24:50
Speaker 1: horn earlier sometime in September. And there's this great debate
24:54
Speaker 1: where like, hey, maybe there's nothing that's super exciting. It's
24:56
Speaker 1: mid-October already. The question is, should I be hunting the
25:00
Speaker 1: deer I have or the deer I hope to show
25:02
Speaker 1: up in the rut?
25:04
Speaker 2: Do you own your own land or what state would
25:06
Speaker 2: it be in?
25:08
Speaker 1: Not Iowa.
25:09
Speaker 2: Not Iowa.
25:11
Speaker 1: Anywhere USA. Just the common guy. This is the everyday dude.
25:14
Speaker 2: So I'll just answer this really simply. If like the
25:17
Speaker 2: deer you're hunting, if I'm after fill in the blank,
25:20
Speaker 2: you can just put an age on it or whatever score.
25:23
Speaker 2: I'd rather put people put age on things, but whatever.
25:26
Speaker 2: So I'll put an age on it. I want to
25:28
Speaker 2: hunt four-year-olds. There's not a four-year-old around. So I'm going
25:31
Speaker 2: to lower my standards and shoot a three-year-old. Then I
25:34
Speaker 2: would wait. If there's a, if I want to shoot
25:36
Speaker 2: a four-year-old and there's a four-year-old there, then go hunt
25:40
Speaker 2: and try and get them early. And don't worry about
25:41
Speaker 2: what moves in later. I think that one's pretty quite easy.
25:44
Speaker 1: Okay. What if there's, You're like, it's mid-October. I'm panicking.
25:47
Speaker 1: There's nothing exciting. Why panic? I'm asking. A lot of
25:50
Speaker 1: people panic.
25:50
Speaker 3: Why?
25:50
Speaker 1: They just do.
25:52
Speaker 3: Why?
25:52
Speaker 2: Because they have to fill a buck tag?
25:54
Speaker 4: Yeah.
25:54
Speaker 2: They have to?
25:54
Speaker 4: FOMO. Why?
25:55
Speaker 2: Why do you have to fill a buck tag?
25:57
Speaker 1: I mean, I think... Imagine you're at the Iowa Deer Classic.
26:01
Speaker 1: It's October 15th, and you're like, hey, you got anything
26:03
Speaker 1: to hunt?
26:04
Speaker 3: Oh, no.
26:04
Speaker 1: I got nothing.
26:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:05
Speaker 1: No, I get that.
26:06
Speaker 2: No, I get that. And I've been that guy that's like, yeah,
26:08
Speaker 2: I don't have a deer I really want to hunt
26:09
Speaker 2: this year. And I understand that I'm in the minority...
26:14
Speaker 2: That says, what's the matter if you don't have a
26:16
Speaker 2: deer to hunt? What if you don't fill a tag
26:18
Speaker 2: this year, rather?
26:19
Speaker 4: Yeah.
26:19
Speaker 1: Okay.
26:20
Speaker 2: So I don't fill a tag this year. What am I,
26:21
Speaker 2: not a man? Am I not cool? I can't post
26:24
Speaker 2: something on Instagram and Facebook and brag? Yeah. I mean,
26:27
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. I want to fill, I want
26:29
Speaker 2: to connect with a buck, but, and I want to
26:33
Speaker 2: connect with the buck that's whatever the goals are, whatever
26:37
Speaker 2: my goals are, I want to connect with that buck.
26:38
Speaker 2: But if it doesn't happen, then that means I have
26:40
Speaker 2: to lower my standards just so I can, you know, say, hey,
26:43
Speaker 2: I got one.
26:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.
26:44
Speaker 2: I don't have that panic at all, but I'm also older.
26:47
Speaker 2: And now if we're being real, when I was younger,
26:49
Speaker 2: did I get like that? Like I got to get
26:51
Speaker 2: a buck. Uh, I got to go hard. Yes, I did.
26:55
Speaker 2: And now as I just get older, um, I don't
26:58
Speaker 2: have that. And I do wish more young people had that.
27:01
Speaker 2: And I'm knocking myself really with this statement. I'm knocking
27:04
Speaker 2: myself 20 years ago. I'm going, you were, you did
27:06
Speaker 2: have kind of need to get a buck or have
27:08
Speaker 2: that little pressure. And, and all I'm saying is, is, um,
27:12
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. I mean, The years where I
27:15
Speaker 2: look back and I had down years where I didn't
27:18
Speaker 2: get deer and there wasn't a deer I didn't want
27:20
Speaker 2: to shoot. And then the next year maybe I did
27:22
Speaker 2: and it came together. I love how that works. It's
27:25
Speaker 2: very rewarding that following year when you're like, dude, I
27:27
Speaker 2: had a whole season that was very difficult and finally
27:30
Speaker 2: it comes together later. And it's more rewarding. So if
27:33
Speaker 2: you have a down year and you don't tag a deer,
27:35
Speaker 2: oh well. Shoot a doe. Find a management buck that
27:40
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, he's really old. He's taking a spot up.
27:43
Speaker 2: He's still smart. Go after that. Stuff like that. But
27:47
Speaker 2: if I don't take a buck, I don't pay it.
27:49
Speaker 1: What about from a deer behavior standpoint where, and think
27:52
Speaker 1: of all the different cameras in different places that just
27:55
Speaker 1: different experiences are talking to different guys where there's this
27:59
Speaker 1: thought process of October 15th, he's going to get crazy
28:03
Speaker 1: and start leaving or it's going to be way harder
28:05
Speaker 1: to potentially kill whatever buck is on there now where
28:09
Speaker 1: the snow globe gets shaken up in two weeks from now.
28:13
Speaker 2: So that's fine. It's true. It's going to make it
28:16
Speaker 2: more difficult. But then you're playing just a game of
28:20
Speaker 2: who knows where the heck he's going to show up,
28:22
Speaker 2: which is kind of fun. All I'd say is go hunt.
28:25
Speaker 2: Just go sit in the woods. Go have fun. Go
28:27
Speaker 2: enjoy nature. I mean, that's oversimplifying things, but that's honestly
28:32
Speaker 2: what I believe. Like, I go out when I don't
28:37
Speaker 2: have a deer to hunt. Like, I know if I
28:38
Speaker 2: go hunt this portion of my farm, there's zero deer
28:40
Speaker 2: I want to shoot. I go sit up in a
28:42
Speaker 2: tree stand. That's where I want. Yeah.
28:44
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding.
28:45
Speaker 2: I put you in the worst spot.
28:47
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding.
28:48
Speaker 2: And then ruined your hunt. And all of a sudden
28:51
Speaker 2: came back and I'm like, what were we doing that night?
28:54
Speaker 2: Were we shooting?
28:55
Speaker 1: You were working on something.
28:57
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. We were making all this noise. I felt
28:59
Speaker 2: bad about that. But like, I go out and I'll
29:02
Speaker 2: go sit where you sat or a million other spots
29:05
Speaker 2: where I'm like, well, what am I going to do tonight? Uh,
29:09
Speaker 2: it's my time of the year where I get a break.
29:11
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go sit in the woods and
29:12
Speaker 2: watch stuff. I'm not going to shoot anything. I know
29:14
Speaker 2: before I go out. Now, if a coyote comes out
29:17
Speaker 2: or some fluke happened, of course, like, oh my gosh,
29:21
Speaker 2: look at this buck that did come out. It's never
29:23
Speaker 2: happened in my whole life. Uh, but it could happen,
29:26
Speaker 2: but I just like going out and spending time out there.
29:29
Speaker 2: And I would encourage people that that would be my goal.
29:33
Speaker 2: Not like This is how you remedy the panic. Go
29:36
Speaker 2: out there and spend time enjoying yourself and don't worry
29:39
Speaker 2: about filling a buck take. Don't worry about social media.
29:42
Speaker 2: Don't worry about other people. Go out there for yourself
29:45
Speaker 2: so you can have that experience outdoors and go enjoy yourself.
29:50
Speaker 2: It's the greatest thing you can do.
29:51
Speaker 1: Well, you sniffed out the root of the question was
29:53
Speaker 1: people have panic at this time of year in October
29:57
Speaker 1: and you sniffed it out. So I appreciate that.
29:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
30:00
Speaker 1: It's going to be all right.
30:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. There's, there's up years and there's down years.
30:05
Speaker 2: I don't care how long you've done this. I've done it. Okay.
30:09
Speaker 2: So I've done a 35 years, 34. So I'm 47
30:13
Speaker 2: started at me. I think I started at 14. So,
30:17
Speaker 2: and I've had, and I look back and I'm like, Oh,
30:19
Speaker 2: I had a couple of really bad years in a row.
30:22
Speaker 2: And then the third year was good or, you know, whatever.
30:25
Speaker 2: I mean, there's ups and downs when you look back
30:27
Speaker 2: historically and everybody wants to have the Rosie view. Like,
30:29
Speaker 2: I got a buck every year and it was always
30:31
Speaker 2: a big one. It's never like that. There's always down years.
30:34
Speaker 2: And there's always years where you're like, there's a deer
30:36
Speaker 2: that are one year away from being the deer I
30:39
Speaker 2: want to chase. And the guys who can refrain and
30:42
Speaker 2: be like, I'm going to let them go. And that
30:44
Speaker 2: might mean I'm not going to tag a deer this year.
30:46
Speaker 2: If your goal is to shoot an older deer and
30:50
Speaker 2: let them go. And it's like, you're setting yourself up
30:52
Speaker 2: for next season, this season.
30:54
Speaker 4: Yeah.
30:55
Speaker 2: You know, so really I'm hunting. I'm hunting for this
30:57
Speaker 2: season and I'm hunting for this experience. but I'm also
31:00
Speaker 2: hunting for 2027. I'm looking and I'm saying that buck
31:05
Speaker 2: is a stud next year or two years from now,
31:09
Speaker 2: please be safe. You know, and I'm thinking through, and
31:13
Speaker 2: this season comes and goes so fast, like, you know,
31:16
Speaker 2: and like it might get to the very end of
31:19
Speaker 2: the season too. And a buck that I might've, you know,
31:24
Speaker 2: I'll be like, yeah, he probably needs to, well, I'm
31:28
Speaker 2: on the fence about him. And then if I'm on
31:31
Speaker 2: the fence about him, like, you know, I wasn't quite
31:33
Speaker 2: sure in the age or I wasn't quite sure if
31:36
Speaker 2: I wanted to shoot him. And then all of a
31:37
Speaker 2: sudden it gets to be like late December or January.
31:40
Speaker 2: I'm like, he, he made it. He went, he got
31:42
Speaker 2: through all the bow seat, bow, the gun season. Then
31:46
Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, a buck. Maybe I would have been
31:49
Speaker 2: on the fence on like early on.
31:50
Speaker 1: Be like, if it gets easier at that point.
31:52
Speaker 3: Yeah.
31:52
Speaker 2: It gets easier. And, and, and something I'd be like,
31:55
Speaker 2: I would want to shoot him. Maybe as three months
31:58
Speaker 2: goes on and then I see him three months later
32:00
Speaker 2: and I didn't get an opportunity. Sometimes I will change
32:03
Speaker 2: my mind and be like, you know, he has made it.
32:06
Speaker 2: So let's just let him go. And my son did
32:08
Speaker 2: that last year with, um, a six or a seven
32:11
Speaker 2: year old buck. It was an eight point big, heavy
32:14
Speaker 2: sheds are over there actually. Uh, and he tried to
32:18
Speaker 2: get him with a bow. And then by the time,
32:21
Speaker 2: you know, gun seasons, we, it was really late and,
32:24
Speaker 2: by that time it was close to the end of
32:26
Speaker 2: the season when he started hunting for him again. And
32:28
Speaker 2: finally he walks in here and he just says, you know, dad,
32:30
Speaker 2: I think I'm just going to wait to hunt him
32:32
Speaker 2: next year. Cause I don't want to shoot him with
32:34
Speaker 2: a gun. And he, I think he continued to try
32:38
Speaker 2: and get him with a bow or something, but he
32:40
Speaker 2: pretty much in his mind said, I'll, I'll pick up
32:44
Speaker 2: a sheds and we're going to hunt for him next year.
32:46
Speaker 2: And that's the deer he's hunting for this year. So
32:49
Speaker 2: if I were to post a buck that my son
32:51
Speaker 2: shoots to big, heavy, Big, heavy eight-point with some trash
32:55
Speaker 2: and kickers. His sheds are right over there. I should
32:58
Speaker 2: just grab those sheds. So a 14-year-old passed him up,
33:03
Speaker 2: and this is the biggest year I would have, in
33:05
Speaker 2: his whole life, I'd let him shoot. I would have
33:10
Speaker 2: let him shoot it, and that would have been his
33:12
Speaker 2: biggest one. But we let him go, and then he's like,
33:19
Speaker 2: I'll hunt for him this year. And he's probably... a
33:22
Speaker 2: little bit bigger this year, a little bit. I mean, he,
33:26
Speaker 2: he added a flyer up here and something off his base. And,
33:30
Speaker 2: you know, he's got heavy, heavy bottoms. And I mean,
33:34
Speaker 2: seven or eight, I don't know, seven or eight probably.
33:37
Speaker 2: And he wants to get them with a bow, but
33:39
Speaker 2: here's the problem. My boy's 15 and he's a good hunter.
33:42
Speaker 2: This is like his fifth or sixth season now. And
33:45
Speaker 2: we've graduated him up. I mean, it was two or
33:47
Speaker 2: three years on does. Then he could shoot a buck
33:49
Speaker 2: and then a little bigger and a little bigger. And, and,
33:53
Speaker 2: The problem is, this is a really hard deer to hunt.
33:56
Speaker 2: And I have deer on the farm that I'm like,
33:58
Speaker 2: you know, I know his pattern. I know what he does.
34:01
Speaker 2: He lives in this tiny area. This deer is incredibly unusual.
34:06
Speaker 1: Very hard to get.
34:08
Speaker 2: So, if he gets them, it'll be awesome.
34:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. We'll roll into the next week. We'll have you
34:12
Speaker 1: on in two weeks for the next Back 40 episode.
34:15
Speaker 1: Where can people follow along? And, you know, it's October 15th.
34:19
Speaker 1: He might be dead by then. That buck.
34:21
Speaker 3: Uh.
34:22
Speaker 2: I have Whitetail, and then if I shoot a deer,
34:25
Speaker 2: I'm usually, I won't post it for quite a while.
34:28
Speaker 2: I think last year I waited until the season was
34:29
Speaker 2: even over to post any pictures. So I have Whitetail,
34:33
Speaker 2: and I'm on social media for maybe three minutes a day.
34:37
Speaker 2: Like Instagram, I'll click through like three or four posts,
34:41
Speaker 2: and somehow I think the algorithm has it popped up
34:43
Speaker 2: to where it's like friends of mine or people I
34:46
Speaker 2: really like, and I'll go through three posts, and I'll
34:48
Speaker 2: like them, and then turn my phone off. So I'm
34:50
Speaker 2: not on there very much. And then Iowa Whitetail, the website.
34:54
Speaker 2: And then I am helping Tacticam with Habitat IQ, which
34:57
Speaker 2: we can chat about later. Just helping put all my
35:00
Speaker 2: habitat knowledge into their Habitat IQ system and helping those
35:06
Speaker 2: guys out. So those will be the places you can
35:08
Speaker 2: find me.
35:09
Speaker 4: Perfect.
35:09
Speaker 2: And YouTube. We'll do a few more things on the
35:12
Speaker 2: Iowa Whitetail channel just to teach and just for fun.
35:15
Speaker 1: All right, there you guys have it. I hope you
35:16
Speaker 1: guys enjoyed this episode of Back 40 presented by Moultrie.
35:19
Speaker 1: Next time, it'll be October 29th. Good luck over the
35:22
Speaker 1: next two weeks, and hopefully some of this information will
35:25
Speaker 1: provide you a little bit of guidance to make the
35:27
Speaker 1: most out of your time afield. We will see you
35:30
Speaker 1: next time. See ya.