Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / The Queer History of the Ren Faire

Transcript

The Queer History of the Ren Faire · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: when never told you protected by her radio, And today
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: we are talking about a topic that you, Samantha kind
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of suggested to me because you'd run across this video
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: on social media.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And I had.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Heard about this from a friend of mine a few
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: years earlier who's really big into ren fars, renaissance renaissance fairs.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so thank you Samantha for sending that my way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We were talking about our own experiences with ren fairs
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: before we did this, and I've been several times. The
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: first time I went, I think I was in middle
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: school and I was going with a friend who is so, so,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: so excited, and it's kind of a it's not too
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: far out of Atlanta, but it's a it's enough of
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a like trip out of Atlanta. And Simon was coming
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: from Delongo, so it was kind of a whole thing.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: And I just remember like she got all in costume
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and was so excited. I didn't do it the costume,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: but I bought like a like a wand and it
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: had at the end it had like a aqua gold
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: fairy dust thing, and I loved it. I thought it
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: was so cool. I still have it. I still have it,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: but that that's my main memory of that particular instance,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and that she my friend brought. She purchased a lot
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: of clothing items that I was very jealous of. And
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: then since I have been and usually it's really hot
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: and it's really muddy, and so I've had like good times,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: but I'm sort of I've been there, done that. That's
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: kind of my stage when I'm at with the Renfair.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely went once and I was good. A
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: lot of that has to do with the fact that
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: it was really hot, really crowded, and if you know
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: anything about me, those are not my things. Yeah, and
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: especially now as I don't drink anymore, just because it
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: makes me sleepy, so at that so when I did go,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I think I did drink and it made me sleepy.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: So I was hot and sleepy and tired in the
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: crowded area. So I was like, I'm glad I've experienced it.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Now I'm done. Now I'm done. But you know, we
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: have a friend of the show, Katie Osaurus, who came
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: and talked about ADHD and When, which was a phenomenal
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: episode by the way, But I think she was like
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: the queen of this year's Werenfair, like she had a
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: high title, Like she popped up on my for you feed.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I guess a lot of Renfair stuff was on my feet,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: but she popped up and she was like this year's
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: crowned queen of the Renfair. So I did not know
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: that was a thing. That makes sense, Yeah, And it's
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: a very like prestigious position in that world. And I remember,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: if I remember she talked about being a part of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: that world because she talked about like the unions that
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: were happening in that we had lunch with her out
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: in real life and she was talking about her experiences
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: and not so it made me think of her. But like, yeah,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: like when I see people that involved, I thought, I'm like, wow,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't know. I didn't know the levels that you
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: can get into this world. And I don't even like
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I have one acquaintance who really built up her like
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: persona in this world. So when we saw her because
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: we knew her like in another professional world, So when
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: we saw her in that character, blew my mind.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And we have a couple of coworkers who in
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the past, I don't think they'd still work at Renfair,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: but have and friend of the show co worker of
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: ours Lauren. One time, Lauren and I went to we
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: were doing an episode on honey and we went to
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the ren Fair to interview this person about town that
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: makes meat. He's actually a big deal, so I'm making
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: it sound like he's like some random guy, but like yeah,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: but we went to interview him about Mead at the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: ren Fair. You can find this video if you would like.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: It still exists. It is on YouTube, I think to
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: find it though. We were still called food Stuff at
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the time, so I would say food Stuff honey House
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: to feel back it should come up. But we ran
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: into some of our coworkers who were like working there
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: as actors, and they were committed.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Committed, yes you have to yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was it was fun. It was kind
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: of like, this is my coworker, but he's a private.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: When you like, don't expect that, and then there's in
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: full force in their role, You're like, oh damn, okay.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Because for a lot of actors, I think when
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: they see someone they know, I think they enjoy kind
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: of putting you, like flustering you.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they know they can mess with you
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: a little bit.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's goodness, exactly exactly. And I do have a
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: friend who, as I said, she goes. She goes several
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: times a year and she'll like go full out and
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: her whole group will and she's always texting me about it.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: She was the one that kind of had to sit
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: down and be like, listen, I've about done it the
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: ren Fair. But I love that you're you're inviting me.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it, but you go have fun. And I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: always love looking at her pictures. But she was another
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: reason this has been on my mind because she just
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: went and she sent me a fun picture of her
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and her crew at like a waffle house it's close
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: to the rent Fair, and everybody in there was like
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: all dressed.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. I'm assuming that they dip the staff well,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: because yes, I'm sure they had the best time.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yes, all right, So today we are
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: talking about the specifically queer history of ren Fair, and
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: we are going to talk a little bit about dungeons
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and Dragons, because I think some of the reasons why
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Renfair and D and D are popular with the queer
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: community are it's very similar. You can see why. But
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: we're gonna I was looking into the D and D topic,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: and it was so big. We're gonna do that at
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: a later date, but I am gonna mention it at
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the end, and we are going to touch on a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: couple of other things with the ren Fair, but we're
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: mostly talking about the queer community and Renfair today. So
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: for those of you who have never been to a Renfair,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: who have maybe been listening to us talk about it
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and have no idea, I would imagine you probably do
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: have a general idea even if you've never been, but
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: just so we're on the same page. Ren fairs are
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: generally Elizabethan themed fairs, usually with fantasy elements that operate
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: outdoors in warmer months. They are laid out like a village.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: They do have very dungeons and dragons vibes. They have
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: shops that sell items that are vaguely time period seem appropriate,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: like you can go to like the leather Smith or
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: what you They have shows like jousting. They do have
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: actors and costumes speaking in accents. They sell a lot
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: of fried foods and turkey legs and meat, which we
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: talked about in our video that Lauren and I did.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: We try a lot of foods yep. They very frequently
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: have themed weekends like Pirate weekend and Pride Weekend. When
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: I was researching this, a lot of them. That's what
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: came up, is to come and enjoy pride at our
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: renfair this weekend. They can be small, are very very large.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I'm very very I feel like there was a documentary
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: on HBO about one of the big ones in Texas,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: like the biggest one. Yeah yeah, and it was about
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: who's gonna like take over leadership? Yes, yes, yes, And
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: attendees do often dress up. Annually. Millions of Americans turn
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: out for these ren fairs, and they have some diehards
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: that go multiple times every year. Across the US. There
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: are dozens in operation. There's a website you can look
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: up if you want to see where they are, if
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: you want to go to one. It's meant to feel
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: like a space of escape, like you're in a different
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: time and place. But Okay, how did it start and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: what does it have to do with queer culture? Well,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the history of the ren fair goes back to the
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: American counterculture movement in the nineteen sixties. The fifties was
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: a time when Americans were sold a certain version of
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: what life should look like the white picket fence, the car,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the nuclear family. Man goes to work while the woman
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: stays home. More and more Americans now with disposable after
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: World War Two or moving into suburban neighborhoods. Meanwhile, the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Red Scare had taken over the country in response to
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: the Cold War and tensions with the USSR. Which you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you know what the Red Scare is, but
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: basically a communist witch hunt for a lot of people,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: though cornforming to that lifestyle, just it just didn't fit them,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: It didn't suit them, or it wasn't something that they
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: wanted at all. And this manifested in a lot of ways,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: like when we're talking about the sixties and the seventies,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: we do see a lot of you've got civil rights,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: you've got women's rights, you've got all of these things happening.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: But one of the ways that it manifested was in
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon, California, which was a hotbed of counterculture, where
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: there was a Hey Renaissance pleasure Fair in May of
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, and this is largely considered the first
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: rent and fair. The person often credited with its creation
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: is educator Phyllis Patterson, so she hosted after school programs,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: including an interactive outdoors one based on the Italian Renaissance
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: art form Comedia de l'arte. She noticed that this type
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: of programming was pretty popular, and she herself was a
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: big proponent of getting kids outside for creative ways to learn.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Alongside her husband, Ron, Phillis partnered with a local progressive
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: radio station to announce a fundraiser for Renaissance Pleasure Fair.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Phillis thought that such a progressive audience was the demographic
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: that would come out to a creative, artistic, and somewhat
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: experimental event like this. When it comes to the E
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: at the end of fair, this was something of a compromise.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Patterson wanted to stick to the authentic sixteenth century English
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: spelling affair, which was fayr. Ever, she was concerned it
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: would confuse people, so instead the team went with adding
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: an E on the end affair to give it that
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: same kind of vibe, but hopefully in a less confusing manner.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: But going back to that marketing from the start, marketing
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: towards progressives worked, and early participants were creatives and they
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: were part of this counterculture. They were outside of the
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Norman some way, California and specifically Los Angeles had been
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: targeted by the House on American Activities Committee, and this
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: committee's goal was to search out citizens that they deemed
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: subversive in any way. This was in large part because
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of entertainers lived in La so the government
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: wanted them to provide testimony about communism in the media
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: or expose anyone with Communist sympathies true or not. Fear
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: and paranoia were an unavoidable undercurrent in the city and
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: surrounding areas. A lot of entertainers on the left landing
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: side were blacklisted and shut out of work, and some
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of them turned to the fair, volunteering to make art
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and decorations or be performers. The first event had a
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: lot of elements that we think of when we think
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: of ren fairs now. Patterson stuck to that idea of
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Comunia del Arte in the backdrop of Elizabethan, England. Actors
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: in costume and era appropriate dialogue ish interacted with attendees.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: While the event only lasted one weekend, it really cemented
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the blueprint for ren fares to come, and they did
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: branch out into other cities. Other people were like you
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: know that that's a good idea, let's do it. Starting
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: in the seventies, ren Fares they started expanding into a
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: bunch of other things, including bringing back crafting, especially in
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: certain areas like leather, leather working and stuff like that.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Lesser played instruments, experimental types of theater, all kinds of things.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Ren fairs went through a push to brand themselves as
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: family friendly in the two thousands. Jumping way ahead to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: be clear, that doesn't mean that they were backing away
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: from their counterculture history necessarily. I imagine it kind of
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: depends based on the ren fair where it is. But
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: as more kids showed up at these fairs, they had
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to experiment with identity and dress as well,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: while also seeing these different ways of self expression. And
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: that's what brings us to the queer connection here, because
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: obviously the queer community was a part of the counterculture movement,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: but brent fairs have long been a place to find
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: community and self expression, not just for the attendees, but
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: for the performers too. And some of the performers I
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: was reading interviews with some of them, and they were
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: talking about connections they formed with the attendees of just like, oh,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: this is how I expressed myself as well, this is
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: my identity too, and finding that in someone else. It's
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: a space where people can dress in ways they might
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: not normally get to that feels more like themselves. Sometimes
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that was the only day of the year that they
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: felt like they could that they felt like they could
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: find like minded people. Cast members and participants alike have
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: created characters and costumes to fit their sexuality and who
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: they think they are. And you know a lot of
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: this and we're going to talk about this more in
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the DNA D section, but we've talked about it with
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: cosplay as well. But you know, I said, who they
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: think they are. Sometimes you can experiment through this and
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: learn through this in ways that you might not feel
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: comfortable or safe enough to do outside of a space
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: like this. But it could also be that this is
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: you do know and this is how this is who
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I am, and this is how I feel most myself.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: But one thing I've experienced COSE playing and playing D
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and D at least is the comfort of playing a character.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: There can be a real comfort for some people like
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: me where you get to kind of have a distance
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: but also experiment. Me like let me see if this
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: fits writer, or if this feels right for me. And
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that's not the case for everybody, because I've talked to
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: some people who it kind of is the opposite, where
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: it makes them feel a little on edge or like
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: too much spotlight, I guess, so that's not the case
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: for everybody, but for a lot of people like this.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: You know, putting on a costume or being in character
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: allows you to express things that you might not normally
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable expressing, and it can be a way of
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: embracing a side of you that you haven't yet and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: sometimes that can happen suddenly like you don't even realize,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: So I think that is part of it. Others have
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: described how affirming it was to go to an event
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: with other openly queer couples, so seeing that out in
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: public outside of making lifelong friends. Some even got married
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: at renfairs. So for some, you know, this is like
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the place you go where you get to just be.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And I think I've talked about that with Dragon con
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Or sometimes that it has a similar feeling where you
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: get to go and you see people who are also
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: they're queer, and they're in costume and they're happy and
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: all of that stuff. So I think that it makes
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: total sense that it is a place a lot of
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: where people go and find joy. I did want to
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: mention just because obviously, just like dragon Con, in situations
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: like this, you know, you've got characters who are called winches.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: For example, airsroom for harassment. Some rensfairs have like stagings
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: of women who are usually very bosomy being captured by
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: like manly men. The jousting is often between two men too,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: in the hand of a princess or the fair of
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: a king. I feel like the last few times I've gone,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: which admittedly has been a long time, but the last
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: few times I went, there was sort of a strange
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: mix of drunk bros, families and groups of friends dressed up,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and it's similar to, Yeah, we've discussed with a lot
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of nerdy things like dragon Con. So I don't know
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: if it's changed or maybe I just went on specific day.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I just remember thinking, this is kind of a a
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: different group of people that I was expecting. Most of
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the interviews from performers at renfairs were really positive and
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: actually highlighted how supportive attendees were and how that support
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: led them to explore their sexuality even more. On top
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: of that, some spoke about how people would seek them
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: out and ask them questions about their own sexuality, Like
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like I have late to you. Is it
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: okay if I ask you a question? Another thing? This
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: isn't necessarily bad, but there are a lot of sexualized
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: jokes at renfairs. There's usually a pickle vendor making penis
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and windows stuff like that. Obviously, your results, your mileage
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: may vary with that one. I I think that if
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: it's in good fun, then that's fine as the way
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: these things go. Companies have been trying to get in
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: on the success of ren fairs, so in twenty eleven,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Butttel introduced a wren Fair barbie. Yeah, pretty popular. I'd
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: like to say that I didn't see this specifically, but
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I think that ren fairs open the way for a
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: lot of similar interactive events that could be much more niche,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: but kind of those you're stepping into a place time
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and they're actors talking to you in costume and you
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: can dress up. I think room fairs really paved the
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: way for that. Okay, I would love listeners please write
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: in if you if you go, if you have a character,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: you have a costume, please let us know. But now
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: let us touch on D and D. I'm actually anxious
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: because the crew. I DM my dungeon. I'm the dungeon master.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: We haven't played in like a year and a half,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: but we're going to play in July. One of our
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: players moved to a different state and that's why we stopped.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: And I know you can play online, but we just
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: never I honestly didn't want to. I didn't really want
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: to do it. I did it for my last campaign
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: during COVID and I didn't like it. And I have
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: some friends who love it and prefer it, but for me,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: it was just like a lot of extra work. And
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm just doing it wrong. I don't know. But
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: so we're meeting in person and we're going to do it.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to have to relearn. I have to
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: relearn everything. I'm going to have to remember where they
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: are in the story and what's going on. There's a
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: lot of plot points. They were in the middle of
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: a fight the last time we played. You're never supposed
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: to end in middle of combat, but we had to
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: for some reason. I'm just going to make them restart
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the battle. Yeah, yeah, but that's that's where we are.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: But I did start playing D and D because somebody
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: specifically recommended it to me for PTSD, and I created
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a character that was based on the story that I
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: was writing, and I couldn't figure out her ending, and
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, maybe if I play as her, I'll
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: figure it out. And it did help me figure it out.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: It was a little messy along the way because I'd
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: never played D and D before, right, that was my
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: first time, but it did, it did help me figure
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: it out. I feel bad for the DM at the
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: time because I didn't know what I was doing. But anyway, Samantha,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: what kind of character would you be if you played
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: D and D?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: You know that doesn't even make sense to me as
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a question. I know I've been around all of y'all
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: talking about this, and I've seen that one movie. I
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: am so far removed from understanding what D and D is.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you. I think I would be miss
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: that's all I know. A rogue, sure, a thief maybe, who.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Knows, if you're a mischievous, i'd say a rogue or.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe like with good intent? Like would I subscribe to you?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: How I would say?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Would I ask you to put peaches or what and
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I said you should put peaches into your I would
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: be a peaches.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Oh oh you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: got you. I got you smarter though, Hell yeah, that's good.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: What they usually tell you is to when you're creating
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: your character, you just pick like random. They don't have
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: to be funny, but usually they're funny facts of like
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: every time she sees blood, she vomits, and that's just
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: like a goalpost you have, like something to guide you
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: as you play. Sure, but yes, Peaches is a character
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: in my campaign and she has caused much chaos. She
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: is really retaviick, and I think they're more afraid of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: her than the big bad. It's did you I find likable?
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's great. Every time I'm like and Pacha
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: shows up and they're like, no, they know everything's about
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to go wrong.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Everything is happening, although half the time it was like
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: self fulfilling.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Right oh yeah, oh yeah, well yeah. The thing about
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: D and D again, if you haven't played, if you
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: don't know, this is a game. It is collaborative storytelling
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: tabletop RPG where you have your Dungeon Master game master
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: who's kind of telling this story. And then you have
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: your players create characters and they have stats that they
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: roll on. It's like probability of what you'll get, and
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: that can go very wrong for you. You can also play
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: for you can do like an average if you're too
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: scared to take the probability. But anyway, so you have
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: these dice and you roll and you explore, and the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: DM tries to guide you as to where you should go.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: But usually the players just want to do their own thing,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: and you've got to be quick with the improv as
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: a dungeon master, at least in my experience, because they
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: want to go all over. But it can be really elaborate,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that more in a second.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be like some of those online
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: campaigns I was talking about. Those can also be elaborate,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: but they can also be kind of fairly simple. I
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: went to one once at a brewery and it was,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: you know, very timed. The music comes on. It doesn't
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: matter what you're arguing about, this is happening now, just
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to make sure it will be an hour. You can
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: purchase campaign stories as a DM, or you can make
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: up your own which is what I have done, and
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: that's where a lot of the creativity comes in. But
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: as we were talking about with our with our queer
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: organizations episodes we've had recently, it has come up a
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: lot and D and D specifically of being an activity
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: of bringing people together, and so we did want to
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: look into why it is so popular in the queer community.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: And as I said, there's too much research to get
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: into the whole thing, but I want to touch on
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: some things here. I do think that it is the
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: power of building your own story and expressing yourself and
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: exploring different identities, of giving yourself space to be loud
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: when maybe you feel like you have to be quiet,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: of creating these fantasy worlds where you can just exist joyously.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: So I think that really relates to brin fairs. It's
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a similar concept and people do. Going back to your
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: point with the self fulfilling prophecy, Yeah, it's hilarious what
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: players will get themselves into, and it can be really
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: really fun when you have a group that really understands
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: each other, respects each other. The things they'll they'll throw
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: at me and what I'll throw at them because you
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: know them and you want them to have a good
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: time and right. Yeah, and it's a nice if you
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: find that good group, because believe me, there can be
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: talks the groups, but if you find like that good one,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: it's just really really fun and really really freeing. So
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: here's a quote from themarysu dot com. For a long time,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons has had a reputation for being a
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: straight white man's game. But over the past few years,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: with the release of the role playing games fifth Edition
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: and rise of online gaming platforms like ROLL twenty, the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: demographics of the game have seen a big shift. The
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: player base has grown, and in doing so, has become
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: quite a bit more diverse. Not only is it a
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: more welcoming place for women and people of color, but
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: now D and D is also pretty gay. Yeah. So,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: going back to what we were talking about in the renfair,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: there's this idea of figuring yourself out. You can play
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: different genders and you're not even necessarily relegated to that
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: if you have a DM who's open to you know,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I told my old DM Tyler, I was like, listen, here,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I want this robot arm and like I gave him
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: all these things and he worked it out with me,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: so you know, you kind of can make those storylines
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: together and it doesn't have to be just the binary
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: genders or anything like that. Right as I was saying,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: they can be very elaborate when you play D and D.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: So sometimes sessions will have like themed music, and they
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: will have costumes where you can dress up and well,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: they have themed nights where we did that too, so
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: very similar to the ruinfair. They have food that it's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: usually themes, so all of that is there as well.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I just honestly, I'm impressed with how quickly
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: it helped me work some things out because it felt
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: like I can I'm living this through another character. Maybe
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like I don't have the room to say
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: this or act in this way when I'm myself, but
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: when I'm this character, I can, and then I can
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: kind of figure things out that way. Also, I feel
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: silly for this. I kind of knew it was a thing,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: but I didn't realize how big it was a thing
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: of flirting with the DM, Like you know, if you're
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: trying to get something out of a character and then
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you flirt with the DM. I saw it happen once
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and it failed spectacular. But if you're in a group
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you're comfortable with. I I was reading accounts of players
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: who were saying DM didn't miss a beat when I,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: as a woman, was flirting with a woman and sincerely
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: in the game. So having that as well, it's also
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: very collaborative storytelling if you do it right, I think
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: it's very collaborative, and so you all can kind of
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: build this together. We've talked about this before, but any
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: pretty much any space, unfortunately, but any nerd space also
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: has room for harassment. We're not really focusing on that
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: here because if you, as I said, if you find
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: your crew, I think you're good. Finding that crew may
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: be difficult, and I think some like those organizations we've
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: been talking about, I would imagine even if you don't
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: know people in the group, that's a safe group to
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: play D and D with. Yes, I also didn't realize
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: it's all I was researching this. How big of a
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: fanfic trope D and D and renfares are?
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: That makes sense?
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you go, and that's when you realize what,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I'm in love with this person all along. I've read
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: some of those. I just went and put it together
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: as like, oh, that's a big theme, You're right. And
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: another thing is anybody can look like the hero in
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: D and D. Obviously this has improved since it first started. Yeah,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: but you know, when you're playing with your with your party,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: they can anybody could be the hero in theory. Anybody
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: could really really mess it up.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Also, but I'm gonna need you to make pictures of
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: the hero please, Okay.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Because I was debating on making her the ultimate mill
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: and make it they're a hero, like, make it flip
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: on their heads.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I should have been like.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, do you want her to be like all this
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: time she knew or she just like.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like you should give all of the all
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: this time she kind of knew. They just just had
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to mess with them a little bit.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, all right, I'll think about that. I'll think
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: about that. Okay, I'll put it into consideration. So all
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: of this is also going alongside a growing interest in
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: fantasy and things like D and D. Ren Fair attendance
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: is going up and building characters and experimenting and exploring
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: outside of societal norms. And I think that idea of
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: being in a different time and place and feeling like
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: you can express yourself and feeling that you can tell
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: your own story and feeling like you can do it
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: with people that you trust and have similar experiences. A
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: lot of the stories I was reading about people who
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: love renfairs were talking about I've got this is my crew,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: and they understand me, and I understand this.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I'm sure like they have a moment where they get
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: kind of like a dragon con. They only see each
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: other at these events, so once or twice a year
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: they get to see or like throughout a period of
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: time they get to see each other reminisce bond over
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: these things, but then like don't know about their real
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: life and that's okay.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. A lot of people were describing it that way.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Did you happen to look up the Top twelve? The
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: top like top biggest rent flaars around.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: The world, not around the world, but in the US,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: so there's a.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Whole around the world. So the number one that I've
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: seen according to the Holy Clothing, because I was like,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: how big is it? Because if it started in California,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: in my mind, I didn't think it would go beyond that.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Although it is very like European centric, yeah play cosplay,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: but the biggest one is in Texas, like we were
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: talking about previously, So that's the number one, but right
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: behind it it's Portugal.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, they have.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: There's Minnesota's up there in Arizona, so Minnesota and Arizona, Maryland,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: which by the way, I would not have thought would
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: be in those area. Australia has a really big one.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: The Netherlands. Yeah, in France, huh.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe a part two renfairs outside of the US internationally.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering because like, I don't see I see a
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Canadian place. I don't see, like I don't know if
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: he's got doubt it's made it all the way to
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: like Asia has no i'd be interested.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: So they're very they're actually expanding because of LARPing. But
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Tailian the Philippines both have a renfair. Singapore Okay, this
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: is a different type of costlay to me and in
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: like Hau because it's not just fantasy, right, it's got
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: kind of historical maybe not the dragons and the fairies.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: One of the things we didn't really talk about is
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that a lot of the ren fairs are kind of
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: themed locally. So generally in the US the vibe is Elizabethan.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Usually there's fantasy aspects of it. But I remember reading
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: like the one one of them in Arizona was very
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: specifically pirate, more pirate based or like based on their
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: own local history. So it's possible that that could be
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the case in these international ren fairs. But yeah, I
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: would be really interested to learn.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I'm very intrigued by this, I guess with things like
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Game of Thrones and such. Yeah, it wouldn't be too
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: hard to note. But like I'm looking at the instagram
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: from I want to say, at the Philippines, the font,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: the design is definitely that of the like we're in
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: fair that we know, so I'm seeing like they have
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: a hamburger, they have the casks like is yeah yeah,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: so yeah, I guess it is. And I wonder what
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: they understand of that, Like not that you have to
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: understand enjoy it because I love that as part of it.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I just wonder that perspective of what this looks like
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think a lot of it has to
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: do with as you said, like Game of Ferns. I
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: think a lot of that popularity of fantasy English literature
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: from that time, like based in that time period. Also
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of D and D whether or not you
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: can put D and D anywhere. I had one on
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: an alien spaceship, but a lot of them do feel
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: very like old timey English tavern. We didn't even talk
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: about warp.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Right, And that's kind of that like that was that
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: transition is like LARPing has brought ren fairs to this
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: point and I'm like, huh yeah, oh so much more
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: because I guess the caveat with like again like cons
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: that have a lot of anime, manga, webtoons characters that
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: have grown big h and it's based out of the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Agian culture. Like huh so there's overlapse.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also you can go to a ren fair
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: uh really dressed is like if you wanted to go
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: as a Marvel character, you could. But I think one
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: of the things that's different from like a con versus
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: renfair because a lot of people go as their own
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: character or like or maybe not even that, but at
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: least like they're not going as an existing property. They're
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: going and just the clothing or as their own characters.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: So I think there's also that element that's sure, that's interesting.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: There's so much to know, there is there is and
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: we will be back with this, so please write in
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: if you've been to any of these, if you've got
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: a character you don't mind sharing with us, because I've
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: already got this one, this one in the d and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: d revisit on the docket. So yes, please let us know.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at Stuffwenever Told You
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on blue Sky at
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: momsub podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff whe
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have some
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: merchandise at Compureau, and we have a book you can
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: get wherever you get your books. Thanks. It's always to
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: our super producer Casey and our executive producer Maya.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told You instructure
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: of my heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: or where you listen to your favorite shows known