Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 261: Bledisloe pressure builds as Wallabies fire a warning shot

Transcript

Rugby Direct Episode 261: Bledisloe pressure builds as Wallabies fire a warning shot · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
0:13
Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Get
0:17
Speaker 1: inside the game. From every angle, it's Rugby Direct with
0:22
Speaker 1: Elliot Smith, powered by Newstalk ZB.
0:25
Speaker 2: Welcome in to Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions, elevating
0:29
Speaker 2: you and your business to a higher level. Our final
0:32
Speaker 2: episode for September, Elliot Smith with me, Liam Napier from
0:36
Speaker 2: the New Zealand Herald. Napier, it's good to see your
0:39
Speaker 2: face in the flesh again as we ramp up for
0:42
Speaker 2: the Bledisloe Cup and we have a squad to discuss.
0:46
Speaker 2: Welcome in.
0:46
Speaker 3: We do. Yes, you're looking resplendent as ever. Elliot, it's
0:52
Speaker 3: been a long time.
0:53
Speaker 2: It's been a long time. Two and a bit weeks. Yeah,
0:56
Speaker 2: it's good to be back in the Rugby Direct studio.
0:58
Speaker 2: It's a different studio.
1:00
Speaker 3: Palatial surroundings that it is.
1:02
Speaker 2: I think I preferred the South African studio. But good
1:05
Speaker 2: to be here nonetheless. Look, the All Black squad named,
1:08
Speaker 2: 34-man squad for the Bledisloe Cup, the two-tier series. um
1:14
Speaker 2: interesting to read this i mean i'll get your thoughts
1:16
Speaker 2: in a moment i don't know whether people are expecting
1:19
Speaker 2: more changes or not there has been a couple of
1:21
Speaker 2: high profile ones um i don't think david was ever
1:24
Speaker 2: going to throw the baby out with the bath water
1:26
Speaker 2: in a squad like this for these two test matches
1:30
Speaker 2: um i think some people just reading some of the
1:32
Speaker 2: reaction around expected more change more players to to be
1:35
Speaker 2: dumped or brought in but i don't know i didn't
1:38
Speaker 2: really feel like that was going to be the case
1:40
Speaker 2: for this um these two tests.
1:42
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. Look, there was always going
1:44
Speaker 3: to be a big cull. It wasn't there after South
1:46
Speaker 3: Africa with 48 players used over there. But the core
1:51
Speaker 3: of the squad was largely always going to be together.
1:54
Speaker 3: Scott Barrett and Shannon Frizzell were the big names that
1:58
Speaker 3: everyone largely expected to come back in, having made their returns.
2:05
Speaker 3: I expected Lester Whanganuku to be brought back in this squad.
2:11
Speaker 3: but Rennie hasn't seen enough of him, 40 minutes is
2:16
Speaker 3: deemed not enough to push his way into the squad.
2:21
Speaker 3: He spoke yesterday about the pace in particular that the
2:25
Speaker 3: All Blacks want to play with and the Wallabies will
2:27
Speaker 3: try and play with and wants to see more from Leicester.
2:30
Speaker 3: So I think we can touch on him a wee
2:34
Speaker 3: bit more, but I thought that was interesting. I think
2:38
Speaker 3: others such as Amoni Narawa, Sam Derry, probably to a
2:42
Speaker 3: lesser extent, are unlucky. I would have probably liked to
2:45
Speaker 3: see Narawa in that squad. But outside of that, I
2:50
Speaker 3: guess the only other surprises for me were the fact
2:53
Speaker 3: we didn't know about Ruben Love's injury or the extent
2:55
Speaker 3: of it. And Patrick Tuipulotu as well. So a couple
3:00
Speaker 3: of big omissions there.
3:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Look, if we touch on Ruben Love before
3:05
Speaker 2: we move on to the rest of it, that was
3:07
Speaker 2: a surprise and had been kept, well, secret. I know
3:10
Speaker 2: they only found that out on the Monday before naming
3:12
Speaker 2: the squad that he wouldn't be available. But ankle ligaments
3:15
Speaker 2: can be a tricky issue, and he's had ankle issues previously.
3:19
Speaker 2: So this is a big blow for the All Blacks.
3:21
Speaker 2: This is a player that started six of the seven
3:25
Speaker 2: tests so far this year. And now all of a
3:28
Speaker 2: sudden they're going to, whether it's for two tests, whether
3:30
Speaker 2: it's for the final four after that, they're going to
3:32
Speaker 2: have to put in understudies. And look, it's a big
3:36
Speaker 2: opportunity for Richie Wong, but first and foremost, it's a
3:39
Speaker 2: big blow for Reuben Love.
3:41
Speaker 3: It is, and the All Blacks, because they've invested heavily
3:43
Speaker 3: in Reuben, haven't they? And look, Baltimore side, I always
3:47
Speaker 3: felt like Richie was going to come back in Baltimore.
3:51
Speaker 3: That sort of made sense. It was all building towards
3:54
Speaker 3: that opportunity. given his belated return to the squad in
3:59
Speaker 3: South Africa. But Ruben would have taken a lot out
4:04
Speaker 3: of those South African experiences. He was good on occasions.
4:08
Speaker 3: He had some moments he'd want to have again, but
4:11
Speaker 3: he's a young 10, and the more experience he can
4:14
Speaker 3: get at this level, the better. But he is quite injury-prone,
4:18
Speaker 3: and I don't know what that is. We've seen throughout
4:22
Speaker 3: his career he's missed full seasons through groin injuries, ankles.
4:29
Speaker 3: So I don't know whether that's something with his technique.
4:32
Speaker 3: His body, he's very diligent behind the scenes. He's a
4:35
Speaker 3: true professional, so you can't knock him on that front.
4:39
Speaker 3: But we don't know at this point when he will return.
4:41
Speaker 3: Rennie talked about him running about 70%, so maybe he's
4:44
Speaker 3: a chance for the end of the year. But if
4:46
Speaker 3: he's not, it's a massive opportunity for Richie Mwanga, who...
4:51
Speaker 3: is yet to stamp his authority um albeit through one
4:56
Speaker 3: game one test uh since coming.
4:59
Speaker 2: Back absolutely um and yeah look look ankle ligaments can
5:03
Speaker 2: be tricky i don't know whether this is going to
5:05
Speaker 2: involve surgery but if he's going to try and recover
5:09
Speaker 2: and not have surgery maybe the better option is to
5:12
Speaker 2: go under the knife and get yourself fit for next
5:14
Speaker 2: year i don't know but it's a big call for
5:16
Speaker 2: for ruben love we'll probably find out more in the
5:18
Speaker 2: next week or so as to what happens there, but it's, um, yeah,
5:21
Speaker 2: it's something that with the, you know, the world cup
5:23
Speaker 2: on the horizon, do you flick the rest of this
5:26
Speaker 2: year and hopefully get back fighting fit for the early
5:28
Speaker 2: part of next year?
5:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a big, big call to make, isn't it?
5:32
Speaker 3: I think he'll hope that he doesn't need surgery, that it,
5:36
Speaker 3: that it can involve rehab and, but you can see these, um,
5:40
Speaker 3: issues go different ways. I don't know whether knees are
5:43
Speaker 3: the same as ankles. If you do an MCL, you
5:45
Speaker 3: can recover. If you do an ACL, you have to
5:48
Speaker 3: have surgery. So he'll be desperate to get back. And
5:54
Speaker 3: for his developments, you know, there's so many different experiences
5:59
Speaker 3: playing the Wallabies, going up north. It's easy to forget
6:03
Speaker 3: prior to this year, he hadn't started a test at
6:06
Speaker 3: 10 for the All Blacks. So he's in his infancy
6:08
Speaker 3: and the more experience he can get, the better. But
6:10
Speaker 3: it really does throw that door open again at number 10.
6:14
Speaker 3: And interestingly, the All Blacks have, four first fives or
6:20
Speaker 3: certainly four first five options in their squad is that
6:25
Speaker 3: too many?
6:26
Speaker 2: Well it feels like it but I think Dave Rooney's
6:29
Speaker 2: being relatively clear that they don't well he's had opportunities
6:34
Speaker 2: to start McKenzie or Bodenbauer at 10 potentially and Bodenbauer
6:39
Speaker 2: ended you know, the Razor Rain as the first choice
6:42
Speaker 2: 10 still, but it doesn't feel like that's something Dave
6:45
Speaker 2: Rennie's looking at. And so he now sees both of
6:47
Speaker 2: those players as fullbacks first and foremost. So while they
6:52
Speaker 2: can play 10, haven't seen the evidence that they would
6:56
Speaker 2: put them there. And indeed, I think maybe even Josh
6:58
Speaker 2: Jacob's selection in the squad suggests that if it were
7:01
Speaker 2: to be an injury to Mawonga, then Jacob's the next
7:05
Speaker 2: guy in line at 10 potentially.
7:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, which leaves me a little nervous, to be honest.
7:10
Speaker 3: He never started, never played a test, for one. So
7:13
Speaker 3: it would be a massive call, I think, to throw
7:15
Speaker 3: him in to start at number 10, depending on the opposition. But, look,
7:20
Speaker 3: I don't think the All Blacks have any easy tests
7:22
Speaker 3: for the remainder of this year. Look, Jacob is a
7:27
Speaker 3: talented prospect, but I'm yet to be convinced and he's
7:31
Speaker 3: yet to have any time in test rugby. So that
7:33
Speaker 3: would be a huge call. What about Bowdoin Barrett? We'll
7:39
Speaker 3: take Ruben Love out of the equation for now. Bowdoin
7:42
Speaker 3: is still probably third choice 10, third choice fullback behind
7:49
Speaker 3: McKenzie and Will Jordan. Is he fortunate to be in
7:54
Speaker 3: the squad?
7:55
Speaker 2: Well, I think he probably is because he's barely played
7:57
Speaker 2: this year in test rugby.
7:59
Speaker 3: 15 minutes.
8:00
Speaker 2: 15 minutes off the bench in Baltimore when the game
8:03
Speaker 2: was probably gone. I'm trying to think when he came
8:05
Speaker 2: on the park. And, you know, had a little bit
8:09
Speaker 2: of experience there in the saddle, but not much. And
8:13
Speaker 2: is fading out of being the first, you know, two
8:15
Speaker 2: choices at 10. With Naumalonga back in the mix and
8:20
Speaker 2: Love when fit. And at fullback, well... McKenzie and then
8:24
Speaker 2: probably Will Jordan is the next best fullback from what
8:26
Speaker 2: we can sort of gather so if your third choice
8:29
Speaker 2: in both positions at best then I'm not sure what
8:32
Speaker 2: you are adding and look he's you know maybe he
8:36
Speaker 2: needs a string of games to Taranaki that's what I
8:37
Speaker 2: would have done potentially is just gone we should have
8:39
Speaker 2: played last we should have played last week potentially yep
8:41
Speaker 2: absolutely but I would have gone okay not sleeping for
8:43
Speaker 2: the bladders low but let's see if he can find
8:45
Speaker 2: some form for Taranaki I know there's only one game
8:48
Speaker 2: left potentially for them depending on how this weekend goes
8:50
Speaker 2: they're going to win to get into the playoffs which
8:52
Speaker 2: they did last week and look very good at doing
8:53
Speaker 2: so but I would have gone, okay, let's just try
8:56
Speaker 2: and get some time under your belt because you're not
8:57
Speaker 2: going to get that in the All Blacks. And players
8:58
Speaker 2: need to play, I think, and that's the best way
9:01
Speaker 2: to find form. You can't find form on the training paddock.
9:04
Speaker 2: And Dave Rennie's talked about what Bowdoin's been showing on
9:07
Speaker 2: the training paddock and we can take him at his
9:09
Speaker 2: word because we don't get to see a lot of
9:10
Speaker 2: that and what kind of, experience he's adding. That's all
9:13
Speaker 2: well and good, but you don't find form and you
9:15
Speaker 2: don't push your case for selection, at least in the
9:17
Speaker 2: public's eyes, on the training paddock. You do it by
9:19
Speaker 2: playing games. So I would have liked to see him
9:21
Speaker 2: get a string of games Taranaki and get into, if
9:25
Speaker 2: he's going to be selected, selecting for the end of
9:27
Speaker 2: year tour.
9:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, just on that training element, the All Blacks, successive
9:31
Speaker 3: All Black coaches have said that. And I think what
9:33
Speaker 3: that means is his experience in terms of mentoring players,
9:39
Speaker 3: but also what the All Blacks value, I know this
9:41
Speaker 3: for a fact, is the way he runs the opposition
9:45
Speaker 3: at training. So he'll play 10 and he'll play like
9:48
Speaker 3: the Springboks or the Wallabies or whatever that is, and
9:51
Speaker 3: that sharpens the test team. And yeah, I can see
9:54
Speaker 3: the value in that, but so too is the value,
9:58
Speaker 3: I think, in having a Maureen Narawa in the squad
10:02
Speaker 3: who is a very different style of winger, I think,
10:05
Speaker 3: than what they've got. So right now... I think Bowdoin's vulnerable.
10:10
Speaker 3: He has to be given his third choice in those positions.
10:14
Speaker 2: Was he able to get any game time, at least
10:16
Speaker 2: in the first test?
10:18
Speaker 3: Wouldn't think so.
10:19
Speaker 2: Because they're probably going to select the same style of
10:21
Speaker 2: bench that they have, apart from Baltimore.
10:23
Speaker 3: That's it, when you've got Mwanga at 10 and McKenzie
10:26
Speaker 3: at fullback, you don't need first five cover.
10:28
Speaker 2: No, well, I'd even argue you don't need, you know,
10:32
Speaker 2: I'd go 6-2. I think you can go halfback and
10:36
Speaker 2: outside back or a midfielder because you don't need an
10:40
Speaker 2: extra midfielder or wing cover on the bench, so... Um,
10:44
Speaker 2: that's where I'd go, but yeah, I think it's, it's interesting.
10:46
Speaker 2: Maybe if, look, if they win, the Olympics win at, um,
10:48
Speaker 2: Eden Park, it gives them a little bit of license
10:51
Speaker 2: within reason in Sydney to look at different things. Maybe
10:54
Speaker 2: that's when Scott Barrett comes in as a starter or
10:57
Speaker 2: get some game time. Maybe they look at Jake him for,
10:59
Speaker 2: for a test day bill in that game within reason.
11:02
Speaker 2: And maybe Bowdoin Barrett comes in for that test potentially, but, um,
11:06
Speaker 2: they've got to win at Eden Park first. And this is,
11:07
Speaker 2: we'll get onto this later, but the Wallabies team that
11:10
Speaker 2: you can't take lightly. So that's going to be interesting
11:12
Speaker 2: in and of itself, whether he actually gets any game
11:14
Speaker 2: time in these two test matches. Yeah, absolutely.
11:16
Speaker 3: It will be the All Blacks' best available team for
11:19
Speaker 3: Eden Park. They've lost three tests in a row. The
11:23
Speaker 3: Eden Park record's on the line. The Bladders are those
11:25
Speaker 3: up for grabs. There's a bit of history with Rennie
11:28
Speaker 3: and the Wallabies, so there'll be no... The Wallabies just
11:32
Speaker 3: knocked over the box, albeit a second-string Springbok team. There'll
11:36
Speaker 3: be no chances taken. And that first choice team, best available,
11:41
Speaker 3: does not include Bowdoin Barrett. I think it's... What about
11:46
Speaker 3: Scott Barrett and Shannon Frizzell? Do history or what we've
11:50
Speaker 3: seen from Rennie, if you look at a guy like Moanga,
11:53
Speaker 3: would suggest that these guys will probably come back via
11:56
Speaker 3: the bench? Shannon Frizzell... has looked very good very physical
12:03
Speaker 3: but in short bursts and we haven't seen enough of
12:05
Speaker 3: him i don't think to suggest that he could walk
12:07
Speaker 3: in and start a test match scott barrett hasn't had
12:12
Speaker 3: a lot of rugby over the past year either so
12:15
Speaker 3: i don't see either of those guys starting but are
12:17
Speaker 3: they do they make the bench well.
12:18
Speaker 2: They might make the bench for the first test potentially
12:21
Speaker 2: um that was something that dave rennie said yesterday when
12:24
Speaker 2: he when he did a video call with the media
12:25
Speaker 2: around that that Frizzell had built his minutes over the
12:28
Speaker 2: last few weeks, but whether he'd still be capable of
12:31
Speaker 2: playing 80 minutes in a test match, not sure. And
12:36
Speaker 2: so perhaps introducing both of those players via the bench
12:39
Speaker 2: is the best method. I'm not sure they'll do even
12:41
Speaker 2: that with Scott Barrett next week. They may just leave
12:43
Speaker 2: him an extra week and bring him in. And Sidney
12:46
Speaker 2: potentially played 52 minutes for Taranaki against Hawke's Bay on
12:49
Speaker 2: the weekend. I thought he was good, but was probably
12:52
Speaker 2: shaded by Josh Lord in terms of the two Taranaki
12:55
Speaker 2: All Blacks locks. that were playing. So I think you
12:59
Speaker 2: introduce them by the bench, if at all. But in
13:04
Speaker 2: terms of Frizzell, that is trying to solve a problem
13:07
Speaker 2: that has just plagued the All Blacks for a decade now,
13:11
Speaker 2: trying to find a blindside flanker. that can replace Jerome
13:14
Speaker 2: Kano and it's almost you know back to the future
13:18
Speaker 2: back to the future because exactly because and look Shannon
13:20
Speaker 2: Frizzell look he played a very good test against South
13:23
Speaker 2: Africa in 2023 at Mount Smart Stadium but even before
13:26
Speaker 2: then he hadn't really nailed down the role that was
13:29
Speaker 2: the game where people go okay well he's a starting
13:31
Speaker 2: six for the World Cup then but prior to that
13:33
Speaker 2: it was still very much up in the air as
13:35
Speaker 2: to I'm trying to think who who would have been
13:37
Speaker 2: in the mix um Keira had been spat out by
13:40
Speaker 2: that stage, but there were others that were certainly in
13:42
Speaker 2: the mix to start at blindside flankers. And his last
13:45
Speaker 2: act was, well, not his last act, but he was
13:47
Speaker 2: yellow carded in the World Cup final. So he's been
13:50
Speaker 2: out of sight, out of mind for the best part
13:52
Speaker 2: of three years. So, look, it's back to the future,
13:56
Speaker 2: but he's not going to be the immediate saviour, I
13:58
Speaker 2: wouldn't have thought, to the sixth jersey.
14:00
Speaker 3: He was instrumental alongside Rich Moanga in those first two
14:06
Speaker 3: titles that they won in Japan, but has barely laced
14:13
Speaker 3: the boot this year. I think most of the year
14:17
Speaker 3: came back, got injured again, and so has only just
14:20
Speaker 3: come back recently with Tasman. So it's such a small
14:23
Speaker 3: sample size, and I'm loathe to lavish anyone with praise
14:29
Speaker 3: that's dominating Japanese rugby. I don't care what anyone says
14:32
Speaker 3: about that competition is a world away from Test Rugby.
14:37
Speaker 3: So it's been a long time since Shannon Frizzell has
14:40
Speaker 3: played Test Rugby. I do think he is the prototype,
14:45
Speaker 3: isn't he? The physical presence that the All Blacks want
14:48
Speaker 3: and need from their blindside flanker. And the All Blacks
14:52
Speaker 3: can talk about interchangeable loose forward roles and all those
14:57
Speaker 3: sorts of things. And there's an element of truth to it,
14:59
Speaker 3: but for the balance of your loose forward trio, you
15:03
Speaker 3: do need one just monster, one physical presence. And if
15:09
Speaker 3: he can recapture his best, I don't know if he
15:12
Speaker 3: can do it consistently, but he'd be a welcome presence.
15:16
Speaker 3: So I would introduce him via the bench, maybe start
15:18
Speaker 3: him the following week. But it is a very intriguing element,
15:24
Speaker 3: that loose forward group, because there's no Artie Sevier, there's
15:26
Speaker 3: no Luke Jacobson, Peter Lakaia for me is an 8
15:30
Speaker 3: or a 7 not a 6 Wallace Atiti has not
15:37
Speaker 3: recaptured the heights of his form from a couple of
15:39
Speaker 3: years ago yet Ethan Blackhead is in the mix does
15:41
Speaker 3: Tupu play Tupu Vai play Locke or Blindside so the
15:45
Speaker 3: composition of that group is very much up for debate.
15:48
Speaker 2: Well who's your starting loose forward trio next week for
15:51
Speaker 2: the Blues Low Cup then? I'm going to put you
15:52
Speaker 2: on the spot.
15:55
Speaker 3: I would probably yeah It's interesting, isn't it? I'd go
15:59
Speaker 3: Lakai at eight. I don't really like Tupou at six.
16:07
Speaker 3: I'm no huge fan of that. I think he's better
16:09
Speaker 3: at lock. So I would probably go Wallace at six
16:13
Speaker 3: and Blackadder at seven. But it's certainly not my preferred
16:19
Speaker 3: starting trio when everyone's available. I think I'd love to
16:23
Speaker 3: see Frizzell get back to where he was and put
16:26
Speaker 3: him in At six?
16:28
Speaker 2: If he is at his best, then it's an easier conversation.
16:30
Speaker 2: But for next week, I genuinely don't know which way
16:33
Speaker 2: they'll go. I'd probably go Tupou at six, even though
16:35
Speaker 2: I think the jury's still out against that. I'd go
16:38
Speaker 2: Cegna at seven.
16:39
Speaker 3: Cegna, of course.
16:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry.
16:41
Speaker 3: 100% for him at seven.
16:42
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:42
Speaker 2: I mean, Cegna's played six as well, but I don't
16:45
Speaker 2: know if you'd want that attest at all.
16:46
Speaker 3: He's a true number seven. Yep, I agree. Cegna, seven. Lakai, eight.
16:51
Speaker 2: And.
16:53
Speaker 3: Probably Wallace at six.
16:54
Speaker 2: We'll get him more into the weeds in that next week.
16:57
Speaker 3: What about Leicester? Would you have selected him? And is
17:00
Speaker 3: he in danger of being a bit of a jack
17:03
Speaker 3: of all trades? Because he's not considered strong enough defensive
17:10
Speaker 3: presence as a midfielder. There's probably question marks about his
17:14
Speaker 3: speed and ability under the high ball, which extends to
17:17
Speaker 3: a number of All Blacks wingers. and while he was
17:21
Speaker 3: good for the Crusaders at seven, the jury's out about
17:24
Speaker 3: whether he can do that at test level and whether
17:25
Speaker 3: he just attacks the breakdown and sits there behind the
17:28
Speaker 3: ruck and then leaves the defensive line vulnerable. So Rooney
17:32
Speaker 3: talked about maybe him coming back for November, but this
17:36
Speaker 3: hybrid role can go one or two ways. Is he
17:39
Speaker 3: a bit vulnerable with this coaching regime?
17:41
Speaker 2: Possibly, although.
17:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he'll be back for the end of
17:46
Speaker 2: the year tour. It's interesting, though, because what Dave Rennie
17:48
Speaker 2: said about Lester Fonganuku, that he only played 40 minutes
17:50
Speaker 2: and looked off the pace. Scott Barrett only played 50-odd minutes.
17:54
Speaker 2: Didn't necessarily look off the pace.
17:55
Speaker 3: No, that's right. It's one rule for one, one for
17:58
Speaker 3: the other.
17:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, maybe different injuries and different parts of
18:02
Speaker 2: the body being injured take more time to get back
18:04
Speaker 2: into playing. I think Lester Fonganuku is the ideal bench
18:08
Speaker 2: option for this All Blacks team. It gives them a
18:11
Speaker 2: bit of versatility. He... isn't the ideal seven necessarily, but
18:17
Speaker 2: I think the way the game's being played now, if
18:21
Speaker 2: you can bring a player like him on with 25
18:22
Speaker 2: minutes to go, I think he can change the game.
18:25
Speaker 2: And the All Blacks haven't got enough out of their
18:27
Speaker 2: bench for years, I don't think. So he strikes me
18:30
Speaker 2: as the ideal option to bring on, whether it's in
18:33
Speaker 2: the forwards or the backs. Yeah, there's some defensive questions there,
18:37
Speaker 2: but I mean, this is an All Blacks team that
18:38
Speaker 2: also shipped 43 points last time out. So you can't
18:41
Speaker 2: be going one rule for that and then returning a
18:43
Speaker 2: whole bunch of players on the other side.
18:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's a unique proposition and the upside
18:49
Speaker 3: far outweighs the downside for me. His destructive abilities with
18:52
Speaker 3: ball in hand, they're not unmatched because the Tava Tavanawa
18:56
Speaker 3: offers similar qualities with ball in hand and at the breakdown,
19:01
Speaker 3: you know, he could perform that potential hybrid role. off
19:04
Speaker 3: the bench in a short burst?
19:06
Speaker 2: Well, quite possibly. Look, I don't think he's an 80-minute
19:08
Speaker 2: player by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, he
19:10
Speaker 2: looked gassed. He had some good moments for Tasman last
19:13
Speaker 2: week against Bay of Plenty, but he was only NPC level,
19:17
Speaker 2: and he faded out of the game and was all
19:19
Speaker 2: aghast by the hour mark. But again, on the bench,
19:24
Speaker 2: you're not necessarily needing to play 80 minutes, and I
19:26
Speaker 2: think that's the proposition we need to get away from
19:28
Speaker 2: is using it as an insurance policy and going, oh,
19:30
Speaker 2: you might need to play 80 minutes if there's injuries,
19:32
Speaker 2: rather than going, What's the best case scenario is that
19:35
Speaker 2: he comes on for 20 minutes alongside Leicester or whoever
19:38
Speaker 2: and is able to run at tired defences and give
19:41
Speaker 2: you a 20-minute burst. And I think we just, as
19:44
Speaker 2: a whole in New Zealand rugby, we're kind of stuck
19:46
Speaker 2: in insurance policy from the bench rather than elevating or
19:50
Speaker 2: accelerating your game plan in the home stretch of test matches.
19:53
Speaker 2: I've been banging on this point, but I think we
19:54
Speaker 2: just need to have a bit of a rethink around
19:57
Speaker 2: the way they use the bench. I think Tava Tava
19:59
Speaker 2: Nawa has weaknesses, and look, if Billy Proctor or Anton
20:02
Speaker 2: Leonard-Brown were fit, he probably wouldn't be in this squad.
20:05
Speaker 3: Well, that's the other point about Leicester. If he was
20:07
Speaker 3: going to be selected... isn't it now? I know he's
20:10
Speaker 3: only played 40 minutes, but what happens when those guys,
20:13
Speaker 3: I don't think Billy will necessarily be back this year,
20:17
Speaker 3: but he'd be sitting there thinking, okay, there's a couple
20:21
Speaker 3: of guys to come back. I'm clearly not in that
20:23
Speaker 3: midfield picture, so where do I fit?
20:25
Speaker 2: Well, absolutely. And look, he might get some more game
20:28
Speaker 2: time with Tasman. He might not. They should qualify the players.
20:31
Speaker 2: I think they're right, obviously, in the mix, but they
20:34
Speaker 2: may be bumped out in week one. Um, and that's
20:37
Speaker 2: next weekend. So he might not get any extra game
20:39
Speaker 2: time for Tasman to show and get up to full,
20:41
Speaker 2: full speed. So, um, there are risks in that strategy from, uh,
20:45
Speaker 2: from Dave Rennie.
20:46
Speaker 3: The other point we need to touch on Cody Taylor
20:48
Speaker 3: as captain, obviously Artie's out. I would have gone with Geordie.
20:53
Speaker 3: I think, um, Geordie played close to the most minutes
20:57
Speaker 3: in South Africa. Such. He was, I would say that
21:00
Speaker 3: he was the All Blacks best performer against the Springboks, uh,
21:03
Speaker 3: across the board. Uh, He nails down his position. You
21:08
Speaker 3: can debate whether you want a captain from the midfield
21:11
Speaker 3: or forward pack. I just feel like Asafa Amu is coming.
21:17
Speaker 3: And by naming Cody Taylor captain, I guess for the
21:20
Speaker 3: rest of the year, you're denying yourself the opportunity, the
21:26
Speaker 3: flexibility of that selection dynamic at hooker.
21:30
Speaker 2: You are, although... Inevitably, he's only going to play 50
21:33
Speaker 2: minutes of a test match, potentially, and you're going to
21:35
Speaker 2: have to have some leadership to get you through that
21:37
Speaker 2: last half hour, whether he's coming off the bench or
21:41
Speaker 2: starting Cody Taylor. I tend to agree. Not with Geordie Barrett, necessarily,
21:46
Speaker 2: because I think with the set piece and scrum being
21:51
Speaker 2: such an issue for the All Blacks, I don't know
21:53
Speaker 2: that you can have a second five coming over to
21:57
Speaker 2: go let's sort out the break foot. These guys are
22:00
Speaker 2: doing that all day. Yes, Jordy can be relayed that
22:02
Speaker 2: message from the front row, but I think you need
22:05
Speaker 2: someone right in the mix of it actually involved in that.
22:09
Speaker 2: And that's why I think they've gone with the Cody Taylor.
22:11
Speaker 2: They probably would have gone Luke Jacobson, I suspect, had
22:13
Speaker 2: he been fit. It was a double blow losing Artie
22:16
Speaker 2: and Luke Jacobson, which we've talked previously on the podcast
22:19
Speaker 2: about the rapid growth that Luke Jacobson's had there. But
22:23
Speaker 2: I tend to agree that Amuwa had a good test,
22:26
Speaker 2: I thought, in that third match in Soweto, and now
22:30
Speaker 2: you've sort of restricted yourself, but he's going to have
22:32
Speaker 2: to earn his spot. Look, if Cody Taylor comes out
22:34
Speaker 2: next weekend, the line-outs are shambles, and he's throwing not straight,
22:37
Speaker 2: then they're going to have to go elsewhere. So he's
22:41
Speaker 2: as guaranteed a spot, I suppose, in this team as
22:43
Speaker 2: anyone else, but he has been named captain. I would
22:46
Speaker 2: have probably liked to look a little bit to the future, potentially,
22:49
Speaker 2: with the knowledge that In theory, Artie and Luke Jacobson
22:52
Speaker 2: are back next year, and those are your first two
22:53
Speaker 2: guys as captain options, potentially. Maybe a Tupo Vai, who
22:59
Speaker 2: looks as a possible leadership option after 2027. Even maybe
23:04
Speaker 2: an Anton Signer. Now, I know he's very, very young
23:05
Speaker 2: in his test career, but he's a natural leader. He's
23:07
Speaker 2: captained the Blues already. You wouldn't say Luke Jacobson was
23:11
Speaker 2: an All Blacks captain as the option before this year. So,
23:14
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not saying make Anton Signer the All
23:15
Speaker 2: Blacks captain, but I just wonder, given the injuries they've
23:18
Speaker 2: had to go, OK, Dave Reddy could have easily justified
23:20
Speaker 2: it and gone We've got the experience there of Cody
23:23
Speaker 2: up front, and he's going to play a lot of
23:24
Speaker 2: test matches this year, but we're actually going to develop
23:27
Speaker 2: another leader. And they've talked a lot about developing leaders,
23:30
Speaker 2: and you would be thrusting someone in the spotlight maybe
23:32
Speaker 2: before they're ready, but hell, it's a hell of a
23:35
Speaker 2: way to learn. It is, yeah.
23:37
Speaker 3: I just think I want my All Black captain to
23:40
Speaker 3: command his spot from a selection point of view first
23:44
Speaker 3: and foremost, and I think there were questions throughout that
23:48
Speaker 3: South African tour around Cody Taylor. I'm certainly not saying
23:52
Speaker 3: bin him at all. He's still got great value, but
23:58
Speaker 3: I just think there's some real progression that needs to
24:00
Speaker 3: happen from a selection point of view, and that's one
24:03
Speaker 3: position where it's really coming to a head. And I
24:07
Speaker 3: think we saw that with Scott Barrett to a degree
24:09
Speaker 3: as well, that he wasn't playing his best rugby. He
24:13
Speaker 3: was captain, and that's probably where a lot of the
24:16
Speaker 3: questions came arose from during his captaincy reign as well.
24:21
Speaker 3: So that's why I look to someone like Geordie. He'd
24:24
Speaker 3: be one of the first names on the team sheet,
24:26
Speaker 3: one of the most influential players in that All Black team.
24:30
Speaker 3: So I can understand why Rennie's gone the Cody Taylor way,
24:34
Speaker 3: but it's not what I would have done.
24:36
Speaker 2: We'll take a quick break, come back with more on
24:39
Speaker 2: Rugby Direct after this.
24:41
Speaker 1: The Rugby Direct podcast, home of all things rugby.
24:45
Speaker 2: OK, Naps, so before we wrap up this podcast, some
24:47
Speaker 2: of the players that did miss out we've touched on already.
24:49
Speaker 2: Amore Narawa not there. Fihi Finiangonoa makes it after being
24:53
Speaker 2: cleared to play again for the All Blacks in 2027.
24:56
Speaker 2: He'll play for the Hurricanes next year. No, Simisi Tai
24:59
Speaker 2: Loa in the mix as well. And Sam Derry misses
25:03
Speaker 2: out as well. Just in general, your thoughts on those
25:07
Speaker 2: players that have missed out. Who would you consider perhaps
25:10
Speaker 2: the unluckiest of that lot?
25:12
Speaker 3: I think Amore Narawa. I.
25:14
Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of his. I think there's probably
25:17
Speaker 3: question marks around his defense, his physical presence. I think
25:22
Speaker 3: he can shy away from contact a little bit, but
25:25
Speaker 3: I like he's such a silky operator. He's got a
25:31
Speaker 3: kicking game. I think he's better in the air. He's
25:36
Speaker 3: obviously a bigger presence than some of the All Blacks
25:39
Speaker 3: wing options that they've selected. So I think he probably
25:43
Speaker 3: leads the queue for me. Leicester's the other one. I
25:47
Speaker 3: probably would have selected him because I just think he's
25:49
Speaker 3: got a big upside. Sam Derry, to a degree, he
25:53
Speaker 3: played a lot of minutes in South Africa, but I
25:56
Speaker 3: think there are still question marks about his physicality, particularly
26:01
Speaker 3: against the box, the French, the English.
26:05
Speaker 2: We started the year so well, Sam Derry. He was very,
26:07
Speaker 2: very good. Probably the All Blacks best lockout of that
26:09
Speaker 2: July series, although he didn't play the Irish test. And
26:11
Speaker 2: then kind of faded a little bit from the reckoning
26:15
Speaker 2: and then played the fourth test in Baltimore, which I
26:17
Speaker 2: don't think was his best test match.
26:19
Speaker 3: No, there were a couple of defensive misses, which, um,
26:23
Speaker 3: have been punished.
26:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:25
Speaker 3: In the Rennie regime. Um, so maybe that, that's part
26:29
Speaker 3: of it, but I guess someone had to miss out
26:30
Speaker 3: with Scott Barrett coming back. So the other key guys
26:32
Speaker 3: for me, Semisi, Tai Lowa, didn't see enough of him,
26:36
Speaker 3: didn't do enough. Um, and he was a bit of
26:39
Speaker 3: a bolter in that squads. Um, Maui, Yeah, I would have.
26:43
Speaker 2: Liked to see him in the squad ahead of.
26:45
Speaker 3: Just particularly given the way the All Blacks scrum struggled,
26:49
Speaker 3: I don't think they'll have the same pressure put on
26:51
Speaker 3: them by the Wallabies, but I think in the small
26:56
Speaker 3: sample size, I like what I saw, just purely from
26:59
Speaker 3: a set-piece point of view. Maybe he doesn't tick the
27:01
Speaker 3: boxes around the field or getting up off on his
27:06
Speaker 3: feet again, but... scrummaging is clearly so important in the
27:13
Speaker 3: test arena at the moment. So he's another guy I'd
27:15
Speaker 3: like to see more of.
27:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, so would I. I'm a big fan of him.
27:18
Speaker 2: I think he's got a big upside for this All
27:20
Speaker 2: Blacks team. To go back to the original point I
27:23
Speaker 2: made around not mass changes and anyone expecting that we're
27:26
Speaker 2: probably going down the wrong track, they haven't fixed the
27:33
Speaker 2: high ball issue. I don't know who's out there potentially
27:36
Speaker 2: that could fix the highball shoot. Well, no, there is.
27:38
Speaker 3: There's an easy solution to this. Get Ben Smith. Get
27:42
Speaker 3: Corey Jane. One of those two. Just get them in
27:44
Speaker 3: the mix.
27:44
Speaker 2: Playing?
27:45
Speaker 1: No.
27:45
Speaker 3: Well, they'll probably still do a job for you. How
27:51
Speaker 3: many coaches have the All Blacks got in that team?
27:54
Speaker 3: Tamale Allison was brought in for South Africa. I think
27:57
Speaker 3: someone like that, Ben Smith, Corey Jane, they were brilliant
27:59
Speaker 3: exponents under the highball, and I think they could have
28:02
Speaker 3: huge value. Just bring them in purely for that niche skill.
28:07
Speaker 3: And it might not solve the issue, but why not try?
28:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree. Why not try? I do wonder
28:13
Speaker 2: sometimes with those players that have that natural ability under
28:16
Speaker 2: the high ball, if you have that natural ability, you
28:20
Speaker 2: see it in cricket sometimes, whether you've got that innate
28:23
Speaker 2: ability to do it, can you teach others to do it?
28:25
Speaker 2: I'm not sure in terms of wings and outside backs
28:29
Speaker 2: who's out there in New Zealand rugby that, is a
28:31
Speaker 2: good hobble exponent. Shea Fihaki is one, but I don't
28:34
Speaker 2: think he's had a great NPC season for what I'm
28:36
Speaker 2: saw as a defensive question marks there.
28:38
Speaker 3: Caleb Clark's the obvious one.
28:39
Speaker 2: Caleb Clark's the obvious one. He's injured. You know, I
28:42
Speaker 2: was impressed the other day. I called this game for Sky. Jacob,
28:45
Speaker 2: brother of mine, Davuki Nepkins, he's had a lot of
28:47
Speaker 2: injuries and perhaps never quite kicked on at super level,
28:50
Speaker 2: but I think he's got an upside there.
28:52
Speaker 3: Caleb Tonguitel's another in terms of those outside back candidates
28:56
Speaker 3: who's coming back from injury.
28:57
Speaker 2: I just wonder whether you've got to be pragmatic. the
29:00
Speaker 2: All Blacks and go okay this isn't the way we
29:02
Speaker 2: want to play with our outside backs but this is
29:04
Speaker 2: the way that rugby is being played as a whole.
29:06
Speaker 3: It was one standout stat for me from the RGR
29:10
Speaker 3: series and that's Will Jordan had 28 turnovers in the
29:13
Speaker 3: series and I don't know but I would say a
29:17
Speaker 3: lot of those came around the high ball and that's
29:20
Speaker 3: down to South Africa's tactics and their ability in that
29:23
Speaker 3: arena and the lottery that it is but Will Jordan
29:31
Speaker 3: was one of the All Blacks' best with ball in hand.
29:33
Speaker 3: He's so elusive, scores tries for fun, but under the
29:38
Speaker 3: high ball, it's not one of his strengths, and that
29:42
Speaker 3: adds to that whole picture, doesn't it?
29:43
Speaker 2: It does, and it's a clear weakness for the All
29:45
Speaker 2: Blacks that teams are going to target, and the Wallabies
29:48
Speaker 2: may well choose to target it next week in the Bledisloe.
29:51
Speaker 3: Well, that was a standout facet of their win over
29:54
Speaker 3: the box, putting Sui Aliti to the wing right from
29:57
Speaker 3: the opening kickoff. And his ability to contest the ball
30:03
Speaker 3: was evoke memories of Folau. It really did. And that's
30:08
Speaker 3: his position, either that or fullback, because playing centre just
30:12
Speaker 3: robs him of that ability. So it'll be very interesting
30:16
Speaker 3: to see what happens with the Wallabies with their two midfielders,
30:20
Speaker 3: starting midfielders from Perth probably out. I hope they leave
30:23
Speaker 3: Sui Lee on the wing because I think he could
30:26
Speaker 3: expose the All Blacks.
30:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could. Before we get into that game, Australia,
30:30
Speaker 2: South Africa on the weekend, anything else you want to
30:31
Speaker 2: add on the All Blacks squad?
30:34
Speaker 3: I don't think so. Look, There's a bit of pressure
30:36
Speaker 3: building though, isn't there? Like the RGR series was always
30:39
Speaker 3: going to be a massive test, but as we touched on,
30:41
Speaker 3: three straight losses now. Coming back home, the Eden Park records,
30:46
Speaker 3: Wallabies finding a bit of form and confidence potentially. There's
30:49
Speaker 3: a bit of context around that, but it's a must-win
30:53
Speaker 3: test for the All Blacks.
30:53
Speaker 2: It is indeed. We'll have more thoughts on that obviously
30:56
Speaker 2: next week. Australia, South Africa, cracking test match, plenty of
31:01
Speaker 2: storylines and threads out of this match. Hard to know
31:04
Speaker 2: where to start, but the Wallabies getting a famous win
31:09
Speaker 2: in Perth, and that's the kind of win they needed
31:12
Speaker 2: early in Leskis' reign to give them a bit of confidence.
31:15
Speaker 2: They went to South Africa last year and won at
31:17
Speaker 2: Ellis Park, but they've done it on home soil, they've
31:20
Speaker 2: done it under a bit of pressure, and yeah, there
31:23
Speaker 2: was a lot of changes, well, I think 13 to
31:25
Speaker 2: South Africa's side, but it's still in the history book
31:29
Speaker 2: says the Wallabies have beaten South Africa.
31:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Russie left the door ajar, and the Wallabies
31:35
Speaker 3: piss-bowled through it, didn't they? What were they up? 17,
31:39
Speaker 3: 25 points.
31:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.
31:40
Speaker 3: And they were good for it. I was watching that test,
31:43
Speaker 3: and early on, I was like, man, this Wallabies team's shit.
31:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:48
Speaker 3: It was just like there was three or four backline moves,
31:51
Speaker 3: and the ball went to ground. It was all a
31:54
Speaker 3: bit helter-skelter. They couldn't put anything together. But then they
31:57
Speaker 3: found their groove, and they really exposed that Boc team.
32:01
Speaker 3: And even when the Bocs unleashed their nuclear bench, what
32:05
Speaker 3: was it, with half an hour to go?
32:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
32:07
Speaker 3: Erasmus put the whole bench on. It didn't really work. Yes,
32:12
Speaker 3: they got a bit of payout scrum time, but that
32:13
Speaker 3: was when the Wallabies started losing players. So I don't
32:19
Speaker 3: think the Bocs would be too worried about that loss.
32:22
Speaker 3: As you say, 13 changes. erasmus i think got some
32:25
Speaker 3: answers about some players i really like ethan hooker yeah
32:28
Speaker 3: great player um he was one guy that really stood
32:30
Speaker 3: out but from a wallaby's point of view it was
32:34
Speaker 3: massively important because what's that one year out from the
32:36
Speaker 3: world cup um you know that really sells the game
32:39
Speaker 3: i think they had great viewership for it um it
32:43
Speaker 3: is a shame the game was blighted by the technology
32:45
Speaker 3: issues and the phone scenario and Piardi, it was just
32:49
Speaker 3: completely shambolic. The Wallabies going down to 11 players. I
32:52
Speaker 3: thought Sui Lee's yellow card was a bit of a nonce.
32:55
Speaker 3: I think Ben O'Keefe might have even called for that.
32:59
Speaker 3: But they clung on, and there was a lot of desperation,
33:02
Speaker 3: a lot of character, and I've had a lot of
33:04
Speaker 3: doubts about Les Kiss and his tenure, and one win
33:08
Speaker 3: won't define... has rained, but look, they're building nicely. Their
33:14
Speaker 3: big concern is they don't have depth. And when they
33:17
Speaker 3: lose a couple of midfielders, it will hurt them. So
33:24
Speaker 3: I wouldn't get too carried away with that victory, but
33:26
Speaker 3: it's very important internally for that team.
33:28
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. And they can come to Eden Park with
33:30
Speaker 2: their tails up next weekend. And previous Wallabies teams have
33:34
Speaker 2: come to Eden Park and tried and failed, but previous
33:37
Speaker 2: teams also haven't come And some have. Some have come
33:40
Speaker 2: in good form and lost regardless. But, you know, new coach,
33:43
Speaker 2: new era. You come early in the reign. You know,
33:45
Speaker 2: there's a bit of optimism around what Leskis is doing.
33:49
Speaker 2: So I thought it was a great performance from the Wallabies.
33:51
Speaker 2: Shambolic end to it. Piatti once again lost control of
33:55
Speaker 2: the test match, which he seems to do quite often.
33:59
Speaker 2: And look, you could probably argue that two or three
34:03
Speaker 2: of those yellow cards were legitimate. But I think the
34:05
Speaker 2: game had begun unraveling before that point. And he often
34:09
Speaker 2: does lose control of the game. Interesting to see Michael
34:12
Speaker 2: Hooper on our colleagues at Stan say that Piardi shouldn't
34:16
Speaker 2: referee a game in Australia again. Now, he wasn't critiquing
34:19
Speaker 2: Piardi's performance necessarily, but also saying this has happened previously
34:23
Speaker 2: and we've got the stage where the Springboks can't have
34:28
Speaker 2: Nick Berry referee them because of what happened in the
34:31
Speaker 2: Lions Tour. The biggest issue for the game at the
34:34
Speaker 2: moment is the refereeing, but it's also the laws and
34:37
Speaker 2: what they're being asked to do.
34:39
Speaker 3: Just how much dead time there was in that game,
34:41
Speaker 3: the TMO coming in, I know it's a bugbear of yours,
34:44
Speaker 3: and just the farcical scenes of having to use a mobile.
34:48
Speaker 3: Is that a result of the TMO going to a
34:50
Speaker 3: bunker system?
34:51
Speaker 2: Well, not as yet as my understanding. I think it's
34:53
Speaker 2: a technology issue at the stadiums. Now, I might be
34:56
Speaker 2: wrong on this, but it tends to happen at multi-use
35:00
Speaker 2: arenas where they're not necessarily equipped to use the TMO
35:04
Speaker 2: in the way that rugby union usually does. It might be,
35:08
Speaker 2: you know, the stadium uses cricket and AFL. AFL is
35:12
Speaker 2: a very short replay system. I'm not sure where there's
35:14
Speaker 2: a centered, but there's this different again. Um, we saw
35:17
Speaker 2: it in Baltimore when the sound went out, which is
35:20
Speaker 2: a different issue entirely for the, the mics, but also
35:22
Speaker 2: last year in Chicago, when the, TMO had issues as well.
35:26
Speaker 2: It looks cheap. It really does look cheap to have
35:29
Speaker 2: a referee on the phone on the middle of a field.
35:31
Speaker 2: And it looks tacky. There's got to be a better way.
35:34
Speaker 2: And if that better way is just pulling the plug
35:36
Speaker 2: on the TMO for the rest of the game, then
35:37
Speaker 2: so be it. Because, as you said before, Australia is
35:41
Speaker 2: not a rugby union country at this point in time.
35:44
Speaker 2: They have the World Cup next year, which will be
35:45
Speaker 2: a big event regardless. But Sunday night, primetime, TV audience,
35:50
Speaker 2: if you're a casual fan... you were laughing your socks
35:52
Speaker 2: off about how shitty that looks.
35:54
Speaker 3: You walk away from that going, what the hell was
35:56
Speaker 3: going on there? Am I watching club rugby, bush footy?
36:00
Speaker 3: It was ridiculous. And it just blighted what was a
36:05
Speaker 3: great contest, a fantastic spectacle, and a great victory for
36:09
Speaker 3: the Wallabies. But a lot of fans, particularly casual ones
36:12
Speaker 3: in Australia, would be walking away going, well, I ended
36:15
Speaker 3: up watching a referee with a telephone for far too
36:18
Speaker 3: long and that the whole– atmosphere the whole intensity of
36:23
Speaker 3: a spectacle like that just gets sucked out of it
36:25
Speaker 3: I'm no AFL fan but I watched the grand final
36:29
Speaker 3: and maybe apples and oranges comparisons but just the flow
36:34
Speaker 3: of that game and the lack of intervention and then
36:38
Speaker 3: you have have that match in Perth and it was
36:41
Speaker 3: a stark contrast so look if that doesn't smack world
36:45
Speaker 3: rugby in the nose in terms of what needs to
36:48
Speaker 3: change at test rugby level then i don't know what will.
36:50
Speaker 2: Yeah they seem to think that we come to watch
36:52
Speaker 2: the referees um which i don't know who's given them
36:55
Speaker 2: that advice but they seem to be turning these referees
36:57
Speaker 2: into stars but you're right the afl grand final is
36:58
Speaker 2: a great match the video reviews for a goal i
37:01
Speaker 2: guess i guess they've got less to look at but
37:02
Speaker 2: those are done pretty much instantaneously and you're back into
37:04
Speaker 2: the flow of the game um so there's a lot
37:07
Speaker 2: to learn there from a world rugby perspective but um Look,
37:09
Speaker 2: interesting times with the Wild Bees coming across with their
37:12
Speaker 2: tails up, and we look forward to welcoming them to
37:15
Speaker 2: New Zealand next week. Should be a big old week.
37:18
Speaker 2: Napes looking forward to it. Indeed.
37:20
Speaker 3: Aussies never lack confidence, Elliot.
37:21
Speaker 2: That's right. Look forward to welcoming our brethren across the Tasman.
37:25
Speaker 3: Just need to bring back the Speedo Brigade, the Cooper,
37:29
Speaker 3: Kirtley Beale era. They're still kicking around.
37:33
Speaker 2: They are still kicking around. I wouldn't be surprised if
37:35
Speaker 2: they'd sit in a Wallabies jersey again. That'll do us
37:38
Speaker 2: for Rugby Direct. Thanks to Andy McDowell for throwing this together.
37:41
Speaker 2: We're powered by Access Solutions, elevating you and your business
37:44
Speaker 2: to a higher level.
37:46
Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
37:54
Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air or
37:57
Speaker 1: online and keep our shows with you wherever you go
38:00
Speaker 1: with our podcasts on iHeart Radio.