Latest / UK Column Radio / America Is Losing Asia! China Is Winning Without Firing a Shot | Silk and Steel

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America Is Losing Asia! China Is Winning Without Firing a Shot | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Jamal Thomas Show. My name is Jamal Thomas.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the channel. And as you guys can see,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Carl Jaws here. Carl, what's going on, man? How you doing? Well,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: tonight for you. How you doing?
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: How are you, Jamar? I'm doing good.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm doing fine. A bit behind this morning, but
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: still making it up. I'm glad that you can join me.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm always happy that you can join me. And just
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: for the audience who... For whatever particular reason, don't know
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: you at this point, which I'm not quite sure why.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Carl Jha, he's host of Silk and Steel podcast focused
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: on China. Twitter at Carl Jha. You can follow his
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: podcast on Twitter at SteelSilkIn. And you can subscribe and
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: support him on podcasts at Patreon.com slash Silk and Steel. Carl,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: welcome back. How you doing? You doing all right tonight?
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: As great as I can be, Jamar. I'm still recovering
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: from my wrist injury and my ankle injury. I can
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: finally walk now. I accidentally rolled my... Wrist and ankle injury.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: What happened?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: You fell?
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, my wrist injury was from my bicycling accident
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: in China in August, in mid-August. And I had a
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: little mini fracture, so I'm still healing from that. And
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I rolled my ankle.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Earlier this month, like three weeks ago, just before my
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: China trip. So I went to China on crutches. I
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: was hopping around on crutches all along China-North Korea border
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: for two weeks.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Were you? Oh, that sucks.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what? One great thing about it
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: is I got the handicap privilege. So at the airport,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I had people who were like, roll me on a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: wheelchair from the start of the airport to the plane.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: And when I land, there's somebody to pick me up
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: on a wheelchair. So that was very nice. And I'm
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: actually surprised how much the accessibility has improved in China.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I was able to request a wheelchair, whether it's on
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: a high-speed train or on a ferry boat. Or at
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the hotel. So half of the time, I was being
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: pushed around on a wheelchair. The other half, I was
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: hopping around on my crutches.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Well, pushing around the airport is good because airports are huge.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: If I could just sit in a wheelchair and have
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: somebody push me, Lord knows.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: And I got to cut through the security line. You
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: go through the green channel. You bypass all the security line.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So you're the first to board. You had the priority boarding.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Somebody pushed you to board before everybody else. But I
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: don't recommend getting your ankle destroyed just for that. But FYI.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, true, true. That's not a good reason to get
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: your ankle destroyed. But either way, I'm glad that you're back.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're healthy. I'm glad that you made
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: it back safely. I suppose, let's start here. It's called Plinium. Now,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg looks at this, and of course, Bloomberg says, Xi
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Jinping opens, you know, all of these delegates visit China,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: but Xi Jinping that Xi Jinping undertook in the party.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Why is Bloomberg saying this?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: There's, there's all kinds of wild reporting about China, you know,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: like before they were, they're saying Xi Jinping's house was failing,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: you know, that's why he, he failed to, uh, like,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: that's why, uh, you know, he failed to appear, I guess,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: like at the APEC meeting or something. And, uh, uh, no,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: not the APEC, the, the, the BRICS meeting in, uh, in,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: in India. Uh, I, I, he, he, Do probably just
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: have some stomach flu or something. But, you know, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: don't put too much stock on all this tea leaf
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: reading because, you know, most of the mainstream media reporting
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: from China, from the West, now most of them are
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: down from Taiwan. Because half of these Western reporters are
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: not allowed back into China. Their visa are now getting renewed.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So they're reporting from Taipei, you know. So it's basically,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: you can treat it as gossip column. They're just picking
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: up whatever rumors floating around on the internet and they
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: report on it as breaking news.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: But just to be clear, they weren't purges or were
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: they purges?
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Look.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Because they're using a term called purges.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Look, in China, ever since Xi Jinping has taken power.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: There has been constant anti-corruption campaigns, right? Which is something
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: that's kind of alien to Americans because we don't have
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: corruptions over here. We just have a financing.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: That's just calling.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: It's called lobbying.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But that's not a bribe at all. It's like, okay, okay, okay.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: So they have corruption campaigns. investigations in China and basically
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: what Bloomberg is talking about.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Sorry, there was a little bit of internet lag because
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: my internet has some slowness issues at this hour. Did
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: you ask a question? Okay, cool.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: So, no, I was saying these aren't quote-unquote purges In
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the way that they're trying to use the term, like
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: it's not Stalin S which is what they're trying to say.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: That's what they charge. That's what they try to do.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: That's what they try to imply. This is always trying
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to bring you back to the cold war language, right?
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: To associate present day China with the USSR during the
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: height of the cold war. But it's, it's, I mean, guys,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: you back then, it's hard, even hard for anyone to
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: travel to USSR today. Most people can travel to China
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: if you have a passport. China is doing visa-free program
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: for most of the European countries. And even for U.S.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: American passport holders, you can still qualify for the transit visa,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: the 10-day transit visa. As long as you enter China
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: from one country and leave China through a third country,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you don't need a visa to visit China. For 10 days,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: you know, that covers most of the major Chinese cities.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: So people can just go head over there and take
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: a look, which I highly recommend. You know, I just
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: recently came back from my China trip. Like seeing is believing.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: I was on the border with North Korea. I saw
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: the new high rises on the other side of the
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yalu River on the North Korean side. which weren't there
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a few years back. And I went back at night
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: to make sure those buildings were lit up. And yes,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: they were. They were lit up. So yeah, sometimes you
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: have to see it for yourself.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, North Korea has been having a boom recently.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: But I just want to nail this down. These are corruption.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: They are removing people for corruption. This is not Xi
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Jinping just willfully. I'm getting rid of.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: There have been constant removal of people, even from top
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: posts for corruption charges, because they do take corruption very seriously.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: You know, like one thing Chinese leadership studies studiously is
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: a collapse of Soviet Union. They try to figure out
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: how did that happen and how can we prevent it?
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: One of the things they concluded is they can't have
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: the corruption eating away at the party discipline. And so
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: that's kind of the big Xi Jinping thing. This is
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: why the anti-corruption campaign is ongoing, which, again, alien to
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: the Western news media. this concept of anti-corruption campaign.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. So what is going to
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: be on the agenda for this millennium? The end of
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: this opening Communist Party.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the end of the media, it will wrap up
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: actually tomorrow. Okay, so they will actually wrap up tomorrow.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: 29th is the last day. So I'm waiting for the
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: end of the session to kind of process through all
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the agenda they have covered. Right now, it's still an
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: ongoing meeting. There's more tomorrow. So I'm going to wait
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: a couple of days to kind of process everything.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's fair. But this meeting is effectively setting the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: agenda for the next five years. What is this meeting
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: to set the agenda for?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, one of the things they're obviously working
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: on is trying to sustain the momentum of the economic growth.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: That's always on the top of the Chinese leader's agenda.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Because right now, there is a slowdown because... the pop
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of the real estate asset bubble. That happened in 2020.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So right now, that is creating a big drag on
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: the economy. But on the other hand, that means all
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: the money has been flowing out of that real estate bubble.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Now it's flowing into different sectors. Now they're flowing into
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: advanced manufacturing. They're flowing into EVs, flowing into semiconductors, AI.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And so that's you know, like that's where all the money,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: new monies are being made right now. It is affecting,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: it's Chinese economy restructuring a big way. You know, one thing,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: for example, what I have heard in China is there
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: is a big depression in the, in the kind of the, the,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: the gray sex trade, or I call it sex trade.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: They call it the commercial KTV industry. You know, like
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: that's where you go to a KTV establishment, usually for business,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: and you order a bunch of hostess come and party
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: with you. You know, like that industry is right now
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: dead because of the pop of the real estate bubble.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: You know, like the real estate tycoon don't have money anymore.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And because the anti-corruption campaign, because the big communist cadres,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: they don't want to be caught being filmed going to
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: this kind of establishment at this particular juncture. They're going
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: to lose their job. And so this establishment is suffering.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And also in the alcoholic world. You know, alcohol industry,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: they're all suffering too because of this. And because why?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Because previously, the people who have money, they like to
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: flaunt their money. They like to go to those establishments
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: to show that they have money. They can't, they can't
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: throw money, big party like that. But apparently the, the,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: the new, the new money, um, I guess all these
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: nerds that work in the AI industry, I don't know.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know where they spend their money. Apparently not,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: not in those kind of places.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's hilarious. That's hilarious. Okay. So I'm going to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: have to get you back. I suppose next week to
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: give a breakdown of what they're talking about. Cause what
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: they're setting up a plan going forward. Right. I mean,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: that's what the summit is about.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: See, we don't have that in the States. Right? There's
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: no five-year plan. It's just political maneuvering between just political infighting.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: It's not like, what are we going to do to
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: move forward for the next five years? It's not that.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Which is why this is always interesting to me when
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I see this take place. Let's hit something else. Pete Hegstaff,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: who is, as Ted would say, totally not gay, but totally...
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: on their genitals and pecs and stuff like that. Totally
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: not gay Hegsef. Is apparently trying to whip up the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Asian leaders. He is, I believe, at Aegean Summit trying
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: to whip up the Asian leaders to back the U.S.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and convince them that the U.S. is not weak and
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: that they're not leaving Asia at all. Give me your
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: take on this. Because Hegsef was there once before trying
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: to whip up the Asian leaders to die for America.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Is this something very similar that's taking place now?
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: There's a reason they have to emphasize America is not
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: leaving Asia, but because right now all the military asset
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: has been pivoted to Persian Gulf. So, I mean, it's obvious.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: People do have eyes. They can see what's going on. And,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: you know, as much as Pichet said he can travel to,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: you know, Southeast Asia, East Asia, as much as he wants,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: as much as whatever word salad coming out of his mouth,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the fact on the ground is the U.S. military are
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: still being deployed away from East Asia. There is no
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: pivot to Asia. I mean, there is pivot to Asia,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: but it's not pivot to East Asia. It's pivot to
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: West Asia. And right now they're actually talking about U.S.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and Israel possibly gearing up for another escalation in the
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Persian Gulf after the November elections. So, you know, like, yeah,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: the United States do not have the resources to be
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: at all place at all time. And certainly not in
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: East Asia. And that's another problem. You know, you sent
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Pete Hedgeseth over there because U.S. talking about their plans
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: for East Asia or Southeast Asia is all military. When
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: they talk about pivot to Asia, they're talking about pivoting military.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: military hardware, military assets, military bases. They never talk about
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: economic investment.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Because they can't compete with China in that arena. Right now,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: China is the largest investor in all of Southeast Asian countries,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: with the exception of the Philippines. Because the Philippines right
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: now has been chosen as a poster boy to play
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: the role of Ukraine in East Asia. And they themselves
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: have have jumped off the Belt and Road Initiative bandwagon.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: So with the exception of the Philippines, Chinese investment in
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Southeast Asia far dwarfs anything that the United States can
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: bring to the table. That's why they don't even bother
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: to talk about economic engagement with Asian countries anymore. It's
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: all military. And right now, even that is not there
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: because they all sent to fight Iran. So, yeah.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, what do these countries think seeing, I mean,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: with military power and the military, let's be very honest,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: just got rolled up in a war with Iran that
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: is supposed to be a third-rate power in the way
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that the U.S. talks about it. In the region, talking
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: about waning U.S. power. I'm very curious on the conversation
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: taking place now that they see military power being used and,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: let's say, not necessarily accomplishing the results that they wanted.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, the Asian leaders usually take a low profile.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: They try not to bring the dispute into public. But
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: if you listen to other retired politicians, other retired diplomat,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: you know, like the retired Singaporean diplomat, Kishore Mubani, for example,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: he wrote many books. And they keep on saying, look,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: we don't want to choose side. China is not forcing
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: us to choose side. It's the United States is forcing
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: everybody to choose side. We do not want to choose side.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: And Right now, by the mere fact that U.S. is
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: keep pushing, pushing, and ASEAN refused to choose side, effectively,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: they have already chosen side. Because guess what? China is
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: not forcing them to choose side. And they all realize
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: their economic future lies with growth of Chinese economic engine.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: By the way, what United States is doing now in
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Iran is crazy. negatively affecting everyone. I live in Bali.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Bali just recently had a fuel crisis. There's a fuel
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: shortage on Bali. People were lining up at petrol station
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: to try to get the last drop. And the line
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: was so long, it was spilling off to the street,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: causing traffic jams. So for two days, my son had
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: to stay at home because their school is closed because
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: people can't get fuel. You know, even though I have
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: no problem, I have an EV, you know, I charge
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: at home, I can go, but other people can't. So
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: this is a serious problem for a lot of East
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Asian and Southeast Asian countries because their energy had primarily
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: came from the Persian Gulf and now they're getting cut off.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And China just recently reinstated their export control, export ban
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: on refined petroleum products again. China first put the ban
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: back when the war started, and when they realized they
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: have enough, they lifted the ban. But now China is
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: putting the ban back in place, and now that's affecting
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: all the countries in the region because China export a
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: huge portion of the refined petroleum product. I'm talking about gasoline, diesel,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: jet fuel, to all countries in Asia. And this is
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: why there's a fuel shortage. And China is doing okay,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: but the rest are getting screwed because of the U.S.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: actions in the Persian Gulf. And if you look at
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the global crude inventory, right now it's at all-time low.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: It's still going lower. So, uh you know this is
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: bad for everyone how how are how is the united
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: states going to persuade people that the u.s is a
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: factor for stability when it's creating all this chaos.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah but it seems to be that making the argument
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: it's an interesting argument because you're right You're damaging the countries.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And then on top of damaging the countries, you send
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: God of War, Hexif, to effectively make the argument that, hey,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: stay with us. Everything is okay. Nothing is, you know,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is being hit with missiles. And
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: they're like, no, no, no, everything is great. We're doing
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: perfectly fine. And you see all the fires behind you
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: in the oil fields. That's what it puts you in
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the mind of. It's like you're losing the war. And
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: yet you send your defense secretary. explain to people, don't
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: believe your lying eyes. Everything is great. Stay with us
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: against China. They didn't send Scott Benson. They sent Hexer.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: There's a context to the fact that the Secretary of
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: War is showing up in these locations. I don't know.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I was just curious on what you were saying.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Scott Benson will be even worse choice to send, by
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: the way. This is a guy who was working for
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: George Soros. during the 1997 Asian financial crisis, you know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: George Soros, they were responsible for a lot, you know,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: like collapsing a lot of Southeast Asian and East Asian
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: economy during that time, they were betting against the currency devaluation. And, and,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: and the only time that Scott Besson stumble is when
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: he tried to attack the Hong Kong dollars. And he
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: forgot that Hong Kong just recently had a, change of
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: landlord and China told Hong Kong central banks, like you
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: defend the Hong Kong dollar at all costs and we
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: will back you up. And Scott Besson lost his shirt
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: in that, in that battle. And that's why he always
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: carry a grudge against China. But for the rest of
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the Southeast Asian and Asian nation, they remember what George
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Soros did back then. So they remember, you know, Scott
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Besson's role in that. So, yeah, yeah. So, so, In
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: this particular case, Pete Henseth is actually a better choice
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: than Scott Besson. Because Scott Besson just brings back a
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: flash of bad memories.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I see. Okay, fair enough. But all I'm pointing out
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: is this is the Secretary of War. The Secretary of
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: War is talking about things related to these Asian nations,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: trying to get them on board. I mean, I guess
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the question is, did they choose? I mean, you're making
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the point of saying, well, they're ultimately going to choose China.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: But from the context of, let's say, military, are they
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: choosing this in this regard? That's assuming they were with
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the U.S. in the first place.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Well, see, traditionally, Southeast Asia, I'm talking about ASEAN, they're
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: trying to play a balancing game between U.S. and China, right?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: They prefer to stay neutral and keep making money with
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: both sides. But right now, even a lot of the
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: traditionally strong US ally, Thailand, Thailand is a non-NATO ally
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: of the United States. And yet the relationship between US
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: and Thailand has worsened over the years. And on the
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: other hand, Thailand has been buying more and more Chinese
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: military equipment And that has an effect. All these military sales,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: it's not just sales of hardware. It's also training, services.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: So it's building up decade-long ties between the military and
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: also the defense industries. So Thailand is basically hedging. So
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: are other countries that are hedging. And you keep on
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: hearing news of Indonesia considering buying J-10 fighter jet from China.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: All these countries are hedging right now. They don't want
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: to be overly dependent on either one. So they try
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: to social right. But before, whereas before they have been
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: very heavily dependent on United States in terms of security.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: but now they're seeing U.S. as increasingly unreliable as a
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: security provider because they can see what Iran missiles are
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: doing to the Gulf states. United States security umbrella was
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: supposed to protect the Gulf states. Well, guess what? They
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: knew what happened to the Persian Gulf can easily happen
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: in South China Sea.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: If U.S.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Cannot provide the security umbrella there, to Qatar, to UAE,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: to Bahrain, to Kuwait. You know, how can you expect
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: it to do anything to cover the Philippines, Thailand, Cambodia?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not going to happen.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Right. No, that is a fantastic point. Basically, people have eyes.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Countries have eyes. They can see what's happening. And I
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: don't think they stood hex up there for no reason.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I think it was... a very specific context that they're
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: sending them there for. But as you point out, people
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: have eyes. They can effectively see what's happening with their
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: own eyes. There was something that took place for what
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: was happening with it. And I guess this could be
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: the last story. So there was a report that a U.S. satellite,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and I don't know if we've spoken about this, a
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: satellite was in orbit. The assumption and the thing that
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: was being China was assisting Iran in hitting U.S. bases.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Then the satellite that they were accusing of doing this
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: disintegrated in orbit. I don't know if we talked about this.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And the insinuation was that the United States had killer
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: satellites in space to go after the Chinese.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: These things are all possible. I don't have access to
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that information to either deny or confirm. But what I
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: can tell you, it's actually a very bad idea if
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: there was a war in space. Because one thing, it
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: creates space debris. When you blow up a satellite, those
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: pieces are going to keep in orbit forever. Forever. And
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: the lower Earth orbit is getting increasingly crowded right now
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: because Elon Musk's SpaceX, he's trying to launch all the
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: satellites to take up all the space so it leaves
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: no space for the other potential competitors. But once these
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: satellites get blown up, that means you're going to have
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: a space debris all over lower Earth orbit. What that
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: means is it's effectively going to kill the human spaceflight,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: potentially forever. Because you now have to somehow go through
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: this cloud of space debris that's constantly orbiting the Earth now.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: It's actually very bad news if you believe that humanity's
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: future lies in space.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do. And I do think it's bad
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: news for wars in space. Nobody has anything to say
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: short of the U.S. saying we have weapons in space.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And then you get the Russian with their satellite apparently stalking.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I think it was a Norwegian satellite. where they were
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: making all of these maneuvers to hover over top of
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the satellite. What the F is this? Like all of
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: a sudden we have fights and wars in space. And
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: as you point out, it's all going to be classified.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Nobody's going to say anything about anything. It's just, this
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: disintegrated for no reason. I don't know. I thought I'd
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: pick your ear on that. I was just curious if
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: you had any thoughts.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a, if, If true, it's bad news because,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: you know, once one site started, it's not going to,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you know, what's good for the goose is good for
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: the gander. So pretty soon you have space debris covering
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: the whole Earth, lower Earth orbit.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a mess. Like anytime you try to put
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: anything in space, that debris could be flying around the Earth. Yeah,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: it's not good. that's assuming it doesn't degrade into, you know, um,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: lower earth orbit. It just kind of, um, hit the ground. Carl,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: what should we be paying attention to? And this was
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: be the last question going into the week. I've started
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: asking people this because oftentimes my guests who are plugged
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: into very specific.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Well, next, next month is going to be next week.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Next month is going to be APAC, uh, in China,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: since in China, uh, So remember Trump proposed a trilateral
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: meeting between him, Putin, and Xi Jinping? Whether that's going
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: to happen or not, we'll find out next month in Shenzhen, China.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: What do you think? You think that's going to take place?
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, Trump having an ability to grandstand with the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: other world part of the world is what people are thinking.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Well you already said said it you know this is
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: what trump want trump want theory he want theater he
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: want spotlight because this will distract his from his other
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: problems like epstein file the failed war on iran the
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: the potential landslide defeat of the republican party in the
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: november election you know he wants to put that behind
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: him And just focus on his image as a world leader. Look,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Putin and Xi Jinping is meeting with me. I must
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: be important. You know?
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that taking place. It's
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: like people are calling it Yalta 2.0, that they are
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: going to effectively carve up the planet. Obviously, the optics
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of it from Trump's point of view, he would love it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: He would love it. He would eat that up. Sure,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I've just gotten slaughtered in the election, but I'm meeting
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: with the other two world powers. It feels like. But
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: we'll see if that takes place that way. Carl, you
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: have my thanks, man. You have my appreciation. And I'm
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: glad that you're back. I'm glad that you're safe. I'm
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: glad that you're healing up. All of those things make
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: me very happy. Carl Jacques. He is host of Silk
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and Steel podcast focused on China's surrounding regions, their history, culture,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: and politics. You can follow Carl on Twitter at Carl Xia.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: You can follow the podcast on Twitter at Steel Silk,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: the letter N. And you can subscribe and support the
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: podcast on Patreon.com slash Silk and Steel. Carl, you be safe, man.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Have a good one. Thank you for this.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you, Jamar.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Bye-bye. Bye-bye.