Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Brian Laundrie's Skeleton Identified, Clues Left Behind

Transcript

Brian Laundrie's Skeleton Identified, Clues Left Behind · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As we go to air,
0:13
Speaker 1: we learn the very latest regarding the manhunt for Brian Laundry.
0:17
Speaker 1: Skeletal remains found in the Carlton Preserve are in fact
0:22
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry. What we believe is that he is largely skeletonized.
0:27
Speaker 1: Why and is this a big red flag of guilt?
0:46
Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this also breaking tight.
0:50
Speaker 1: The FBI says that the skeletal remains found in a
0:54
Speaker 1: nature preserve in Florida on Wednesday are in fact those
0:57
Speaker 1: are Brian Laundry. Law enforcement head considered Laundry the only
1:01
Speaker 1: person of interest in the murder of his fiance, Gabby Potito.
1:05
Speaker 1: The discovery comes one day after a stunning update from
1:08
Speaker 1: the FBI, which held a press conference outside of this
1:11
Speaker 1: Florida nature preserved. Investigators found would appeared to be human
1:15
Speaker 1: remains at but personal items such as a backpack, a
1:20
Speaker 1: notebook we'longing to Brian Laundry. In a statement on Thursday,
1:23
Speaker 1: the FBI says comparisons of dental records confirmed the human
1:27
Speaker 1: remains found are those of Laundry, and don't pooh pooh
1:31
Speaker 1: dental records. Do you think anybody else has the same
1:35
Speaker 1: set of cavities, feelings, implants, orthodontia that you do. They don't.
1:43
Speaker 1: Dental records have been used for decades before anybody ever
1:47
Speaker 1: heard of deox ribo nucleic acid DNA. Again, thank you
1:52
Speaker 1: for being with us. Take a listen now you were
1:55
Speaker 1: hearing our friends at ET. Take a listen to Daytona
1:58
Speaker 1: Everett at Live Now. Rom Fox new details tonight the
2:03
Speaker 1: FBI Field office in Denver confirming that the human remains
2:08
Speaker 1: found just yesterday on myc Hatchee Trail in Park are
2:13
Speaker 1: those of Brian Laundry according to some of those dental records.
2:17
Speaker 1: To give a little more detail, they say a comparison
2:20
Speaker 1: of dental records confirms that the human remains are in
2:24
Speaker 1: fact Brian Laundry. We also got a couple of confirmations
2:29
Speaker 1: from the two different families from the Gabby Petito family.
2:33
Speaker 1: They say that Gabby's family is not doing interviews or
2:37
Speaker 1: making a statement at this time. The Gabby Petito family
2:42
Speaker 1: extremely distraught. Now apparently they will never have answers about
2:48
Speaker 1: their daughter's murderer again. I Nancy graces his crime stories
2:52
Speaker 1: with me and All Star Panel to make sense of
2:54
Speaker 1: what we know now. First of all, Wendy Patcheck, California prosecutor,
2:58
Speaker 1: author of Red Flags and of Today with doctor Wendy KCBQ.
3:03
Speaker 1: Karen Stark were noowned New York psychologists joining us from Manhattan.
3:07
Speaker 1: You can find her at karenstart dot com. Karen with
3:09
Speaker 1: a C Founder director of the Coldcase Research Institute. Cheryl
3:13
Speaker 1: McCullum at Coldcase Crimes dot org. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
3:18
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of
3:21
Speaker 1: brand new hit series on iHeart podcast Bodybags with Joe
3:26
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan for first to Musa's side, joining US investigative
3:29
Speaker 1: reporter on the ground WFLATV in Tampa, Massa, thank you
3:35
Speaker 1: for being with us. You know, when the remains were found,
3:39
Speaker 1: all sorts of speculation went wild. As a matter of fact, Massa,
3:44
Speaker 1: take a list to our friends at NBC New York.
3:46
Speaker 1: Listen Kell Silva remains were actually just bones, That's what
3:50
Speaker 1: the human were lust. Yesterday, Laundry's parents told the FBI
3:57
Speaker 1: that they were going to hit one of the trails
3:59
Speaker 1: that he frequented, a place that they said they had
4:01
Speaker 1: told investigators to search in the beginning. When they went there,
4:04
Speaker 1: the water had receded quite a bit, and that's when
4:07
Speaker 1: they were able to find Brian's backpack a I'm notebook,
4:11
Speaker 1: and then steps away from that, they were able to
4:13
Speaker 1: find partial human remains were told they were skeletal remains,
4:18
Speaker 1: and also a partial piece of a human skull were
4:22
Speaker 1: found as well. And it's apparent that all this information,
4:25
Speaker 1: all the remains that they were able to find, were
4:27
Speaker 1: able to help make a positive identification Tomaso's w FLATV.
4:33
Speaker 1: That is where all the theories, all the speculation, all
4:38
Speaker 1: the clues melded together to come up with a lot
4:43
Speaker 1: of ideas, let me say, hypotheses about how Brian Laundry's
4:48
Speaker 1: remains are found, largely centered on Chris and ROBERTA Laundry.
4:52
Speaker 1: They go out, they announced are going to go out
4:55
Speaker 1: and search for their son, and in less than an hour,
4:59
Speaker 1: where couldaver dogs have failed, drones have failed, dive teams
5:03
Speaker 1: have failed, hundreds of man hours have failed, they find
5:08
Speaker 1: him in less than an hour. That led to a
5:11
Speaker 1: lot of speculation because of the very rare coincidence. Yeah,
5:16
Speaker 1: it is definitely a coincidence, and certainly I understand all
5:20
Speaker 1: the questions that people have about this. This is an
5:22
Speaker 1: area that was searched for over a month by multiple
5:25
Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies and they found nothing, no sign of
5:29
Speaker 1: Brian laundry. Then the parents show up at the scene.
5:32
Speaker 1: They're closely followed by law enforcement, and very quickly after
5:37
Speaker 1: the briefest of searches, the parents find the drive back
5:41
Speaker 1: law enforcement finds the backpack and the partial human remains
5:46
Speaker 1: the skull. And you know, people have questions, why now,
5:51
Speaker 1: Why was this discovering made now? And I asked the attorney,
5:55
Speaker 1: Stephen Bertolino about this yesterday. I said, how did christ
5:57
Speaker 1: and Roverna know exactly where to go? Why did they
6:00
Speaker 1: start here? And he said, first of all, this was
6:04
Speaker 1: the general area that they had told law enforces Brian
6:07
Speaker 1: would be all along one and two. He said, they
6:11
Speaker 1: just started at the beginning. It was happened, Stan, they
6:14
Speaker 1: just started. Roberta was walking the trail, Chris started to
6:17
Speaker 1: zig zag through the woods and that's when he made
6:21
Speaker 1: the discovery. So it certainly is a coincidence. But the
6:24
Speaker 1: attorney says that this was an area, according to the attorney,
6:28
Speaker 1: according to the SBI, that had been submerged before. So
6:32
Speaker 1: I think the questions for the family I certainly understand them,
6:36
Speaker 1: but there should also be questions to law enforcement. I
6:40
Speaker 1: don't think anyone is suggesting the families planted the remains. Well,
6:44
Speaker 1: actually some people are suggesting the family planted his remains.
6:47
Speaker 1: There's a lot of suggestions going on straight out to
6:51
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum way and Cheryl Nancy. I think that the
6:55
Speaker 1: family attorney is directly involved with the way people are
7:00
Speaker 1: see in this case and the conspiracy theories. I've got
7:03
Speaker 1: four points. I want to make it real quick. We're
7:05
Speaker 1: originally told that he went to the Carton Reserve. Then
7:09
Speaker 1: we find out no, it's the my Hatchey Park, which
7:12
Speaker 1: is seventeen miles away. Then we're told he left on
7:16
Speaker 1: the fourteenth. Nope, nope. Now we're told he left on
7:19
Speaker 1: the thirteenth. Then the lawyer says he notified law enforcement
7:23
Speaker 1: himself that Brian was missing the night of the thirteenth,
7:26
Speaker 1: of the morning of the fourteenth, that couldn't remember, and
7:29
Speaker 1: law enforcement says that ain't true. We didn't know he
7:31
Speaker 1: was missing until the seventeenth. Then we're told mom bought
7:36
Speaker 1: him a cell phone on September fourteenth, and they're own
7:38
Speaker 1: surveillance video and the attorney comes back and says, oh, yeah,
7:42
Speaker 1: the FBI even has that phone. That's why John Q
7:46
Speaker 1: public is concerned. That's why we have conspiracy theories because
7:51
Speaker 1: the lawyer can't even keep things straight. You know, she's right.
7:55
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick. Wendy Patrick joining me, California prosecutor and host
7:59
Speaker 1: of Today with Doctor Wendy KCBQ. Wendy, you my boss.
8:05
Speaker 1: Mister Slayton, the longings longest serving district attorney in the
8:08
Speaker 1: country at that time thirty seven years elected, made it
8:12
Speaker 1: very clear, don't speak to the press if you're cornered.
8:18
Speaker 1: Be prepared with a very generic comment. And I had
8:23
Speaker 1: a generic comment. I believe the jury will return a
8:26
Speaker 1: verdict that speaks the truth, which I do believe in
8:29
Speaker 1: most cases. Here the changing of the stories on behalf
8:34
Speaker 1: of the lawyer has led to rife speculation. Now he's
8:40
Speaker 1: pod technical legal term because people are coming up with theories.
8:47
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact. Take a listener, our cut
8:49
Speaker 1: three ninety three. This is him speaking to News Nation.
8:52
Speaker 1: Now listen three ninety three. Tyler got the FBI, local PD,
9:00
Speaker 1: an independent news reporter all there at the same time.
9:02
Speaker 1: You seeing the same thing. You've got quote unquote surveillance
9:06
Speaker 1: of the laundries twenty four to seven by protests and
9:10
Speaker 1: people of the press. When did you think these items
9:14
Speaker 1: were planted? And do you really think that the laundries
9:17
Speaker 1: had skello remains of the sun, you know, in a
9:21
Speaker 1: plastic bed and rub to the preserver. Do you realize
9:25
Speaker 1: how ludicrous that is, how aggravating, how magnie it is
9:28
Speaker 1: to even hear those things, And the fact that it's
9:31
Speaker 1: being put out there by the press as well, that's
9:34
Speaker 1: where my level of frustration and anger is coming from.
9:37
Speaker 1: Maybe somebody with a platform should set up and say, hey,
9:42
Speaker 1: knock it off. This is just silly. So I'm the
9:45
Speaker 1: only one who has to say that this is hot
9:47
Speaker 1: wash because I didn't want to say the word pulls.
9:50
Speaker 1: Then I'm going to say it's full and I'm sorry.
9:53
Speaker 1: If John Public doesn't get that, you know what, that's
9:58
Speaker 1: your fault. Bertolini, exactly what Cheryl McCollum said, and that
10:05
Speaker 1: is why the blanket rule is shut your pie hole.
10:10
Speaker 1: But apparently they didn't teach him that at law school.
10:14
Speaker 1: And if he hasn't noticed all of us have been
10:17
Speaker 1: saying now, how it doesn't make logical sense that the
10:23
Speaker 1: parents planet items, because that would mean they planet a
10:28
Speaker 1: body too. So I guess that's just another opportunity for
10:32
Speaker 1: Bertolino to spout off. Massa's sayed, he's angry. He the
10:52
Speaker 1: lawyer is angry. What about Gabby Petito's family. He needs
10:58
Speaker 1: to just go away. The Potito family has suffered enough
11:03
Speaker 1: and now they will never have justice. Why is he
11:06
Speaker 1: saying he, a lawyer with no connection to this case,
11:10
Speaker 1: is angry. We're trained as lawyers to be advocates in
11:13
Speaker 1: a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.
11:16
Speaker 1: Because when we try to take on that role, which
11:18
Speaker 1: we're not qualified to do and shouldn't be doing, this
11:21
Speaker 1: is the result. You have the driving public opinion of
11:24
Speaker 1: sending people exploiting some of these facts to the detriment
11:29
Speaker 1: of Gabby's family. You know, you'dn't hear these same arguments
11:32
Speaker 1: coming from the other side. This family is grieving and
11:34
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what happened. But there is
11:37
Speaker 1: now the pendulum seems to be swinging as there's a
11:39
Speaker 1: decreased appreciation for these spontaneous comments that we hears the
11:44
Speaker 1: lawyer making. That's for sure. I think that he recognizes
11:46
Speaker 1: that as well, at least he will if he doesn't yet. Well,
11:48
Speaker 1: another thing is I don't appreciate him cursing throughout his
11:52
Speaker 1: comments that relate to Gabby. But that's a whole nother
11:57
Speaker 1: can of worms. That was Wendy Patrick speaking that Windy
12:00
Speaker 1: or massa massa go ahead. I just wanted to say,
12:04
Speaker 1: he did say and several interviews. Now is not the
12:07
Speaker 1: time to talk about the Gabby Petito case. And you
12:09
Speaker 1: imagine the impact I would have on Nicole Schmidt. But
12:13
Speaker 1: he wasn't just a lawyer for this family. We found
12:16
Speaker 1: out that you know, he's known them for twenty five years.
12:19
Speaker 1: He has talked to Chris. Oh wait, wait, wait, wait wait,
12:22
Speaker 1: he's not just a lawyer. He's done with twenty five
12:24
Speaker 1: years for what for what? Did they go to the
12:27
Speaker 1: same church, the same synagogue? Did they have dinner together? No,
12:30
Speaker 1: he probably knows him from being their lawyer. He is
12:34
Speaker 1: a lawyer. Is there any suggestion he knows him in
12:38
Speaker 1: a social or friendship way? He said he's known Brian
12:41
Speaker 1: since he was a small child. He said he cried
12:43
Speaker 1: upon getting the news yesterday that this is hitting him hard.
12:46
Speaker 1: So he doesn't say that he knew Brian as an adult.
12:49
Speaker 1: He but he did to me. My impression and listening
12:52
Speaker 1: to him was that he was personally friends with Chris Laundry.
12:56
Speaker 1: Well that may be true, but let's not take the
12:59
Speaker 1: folks us off what this is all about. This is
13:02
Speaker 1: all about a dead girl. A dead girl, Gabby Petito.
13:08
Speaker 1: And here's the rub, Joe Scott Morgan, here's a fly
13:10
Speaker 1: in the ointment. We're probably going to be able to
13:13
Speaker 1: figure out what happened to Brian Laundry, exactly what happened
13:17
Speaker 1: that he went off into the woods, overridden by guilt
13:20
Speaker 1: about murdering Gabby and killed himself. But we may never
13:26
Speaker 1: really know what happened to Gabby. Yeah, unless he made
13:30
Speaker 1: some kind of unless he made some kind of admission
13:33
Speaker 1: in this notebook that they keep referring to all the
13:36
Speaker 1: thought careen A Stark the notebook, you know, I guarantee
13:42
Speaker 1: you it's going to be like the scribblings of a
13:44
Speaker 1: fifth grade girl. That's what we're gonna find. I mean,
13:48
Speaker 1: if you look look at Brian Laundry. Look, I hate
13:53
Speaker 1: to say it again, but when you don't know a horse,
13:56
Speaker 1: look at his track record. He's not working, he's living
14:00
Speaker 1: off his parents, his girlfriend, paid for the trip. He's
14:05
Speaker 1: even using her debit card after he kills her. Every
14:08
Speaker 1: time I see him see him in one of her vlogs,
14:11
Speaker 1: he's reading or writing. What do you think is going
14:15
Speaker 1: to be in there? You know what? At his age,
14:18
Speaker 1: you know what I was doing. I had two jobs
14:20
Speaker 1: and was in law school, trying to get myself through.
14:24
Speaker 1: My husband same thing, working at a sixty seventy hour week.
14:30
Speaker 1: My dad shipped off to the navy, and he is
14:35
Speaker 1: using his girlfriend's money and van to go on a
14:38
Speaker 1: trip and extended two month trip and writing his thoughts
14:44
Speaker 1: and his innermost feelings. So what do you think is
14:47
Speaker 1: going to be in the notebook? Karen Stark? Whatever we've
14:51
Speaker 1: been there, I really do believe Nancy that it's going
14:54
Speaker 1: to be all about extending and stuff whatever. It seems
15:01
Speaker 1: to me that he's definitely left it there to be
15:04
Speaker 1: found and that he wants to tell his side of
15:08
Speaker 1: whatever he's contacted of this story and how he was
15:12
Speaker 1: led to do whatever deed he did to kill her,
15:16
Speaker 1: if he even is that specific. But it's all about
15:19
Speaker 1: making sure that he's been in the right light. Well,
15:22
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you this, it's gonna be about me
15:25
Speaker 1: me me me me me me me me me me
15:27
Speaker 1: me me me me. That's what it's gonna be about.
15:30
Speaker 1: I can tell you that right now. Okay, Joe Scott
15:32
Speaker 1: Morgan back to you. Yeah, you know, And I'm hoping
15:35
Speaker 1: that they secured this notebook to the point where they've
15:38
Speaker 1: got it up to the FBI crime lab where the
15:40
Speaker 1: question documents section. But that's another point. I want to
15:43
Speaker 1: get back to the body, you know, going back to
15:46
Speaker 1: what Mac was saying just a moment ago, relative to
15:50
Speaker 1: this Tomeline. Tom is critical here because we're trying to
15:53
Speaker 1: figure out how long this body had been out there
15:58
Speaker 1: at this reserve, how long had he been down in
16:01
Speaker 1: this hostile environment relative to the weather, and this is
16:05
Speaker 1: going to be hard to determine. What's key about this, Nancy,
16:09
Speaker 1: is we don't really know how long the skeletonized remains.
16:12
Speaker 1: Remember they keep saying that have been out there, and
16:15
Speaker 1: it takes a while for a body to become skeletonized.
16:17
Speaker 1: But Joe Scott, I mean, you're the death investigator, having
16:20
Speaker 1: seen literally thousands of death says, but it struck me,
16:24
Speaker 1: how can he already be skeletonized? It's very simple. This
16:29
Speaker 1: this environment is so very harsh, Nancy. Heat, heat speeds
16:35
Speaker 1: everything up. I mean, it just it just buy a
16:38
Speaker 1: huge factor. So the hotter it is, and also the
16:40
Speaker 1: relative humidity, the tissue will literally come apart from the bones.
16:45
Speaker 1: And this, you know, to be quite blunt with you,
16:48
Speaker 1: this is drawing predators in there, scavengers in there. That's
16:52
Speaker 1: I think that's probably why we only have a partial skeleton.
16:55
Speaker 1: But Nancy, one of the things that just is bugging
16:58
Speaker 1: me is the fact that they're saying in the reporter
17:00
Speaker 1: said it in the in the first bit they said
17:03
Speaker 1: there was a partial skull, Nancy, the skull please hear me, right,
17:07
Speaker 1: the skull and he shot himself. Let me just say this,
17:11
Speaker 1: the skull is one of the most robust bony structures
17:15
Speaker 1: that we have in our skeleton. I've always heard that
17:19
Speaker 1: the jawbone was strong. Okay, it's very strong, as well
17:24
Speaker 1: as the pilovis. But the structure of the skull is amazing.
17:28
Speaker 1: It doesn't just automatically come apart. It generally takes some
17:32
Speaker 1: kind of force, some kind of trauma to break it apart.
17:35
Speaker 1: Now we do know that at least there was enough
17:37
Speaker 1: there for them to do what get a dental identification
17:41
Speaker 1: either from the maxillary teeth, the upper teeth, or the
17:43
Speaker 1: jaw bone the mandilary teeth. And see, it's when you
17:46
Speaker 1: say things like that that's why we keep you hanging around,
17:49
Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy. See because right there now, when you
17:52
Speaker 1: say it, it suddenly appears to be obvious. But you
17:57
Speaker 1: know what, He's right, part of the skull is missing
18:01
Speaker 1: in one of the if not the strongest bones in
18:04
Speaker 1: the body of the skull. Did he shoot himself? But yet,
18:09
Speaker 1: as Joe Scott has just pointed out, they could do
18:12
Speaker 1: a dental comparison. So that means go ahead and finish
18:17
Speaker 1: your thought. Go ahead, Joe Scott. Yes, and this is
18:20
Speaker 1: something that you know, based on my experience work in
18:22
Speaker 1: the medical Examiner's office, it takes it takes a few
18:25
Speaker 1: moments to get dental records, all right. They turn this
18:30
Speaker 1: thing around so quick, Nancy, it's almost like they had
18:33
Speaker 1: these records in their back pocket. I mean this was
18:35
Speaker 1: within twenty four hours. Many times Dennis requires the poena.
18:53
Speaker 1: Anybody on the panel, you're all qualified for this one.
18:57
Speaker 1: You know, if someone said, okay, we gotta do dental
19:00
Speaker 1: records on Okay, I'm not going to use my husband.
19:03
Speaker 1: I'll use you Jackie on Jackie, I would have to
19:06
Speaker 1: go find Wow, who's her dentist? How do I find
19:09
Speaker 1: the dentist? Let me look through her cell phone, let
19:12
Speaker 1: me look through her credit card payments? When did she
19:14
Speaker 1: last go to the dentist? To find the dentist? And
19:17
Speaker 1: you got to convince the dentist to give you the
19:18
Speaker 1: records or as Joe Scott accurately pointed out, uses subpoena.
19:23
Speaker 1: They didn't have to do that. So what does that
19:25
Speaker 1: tell you? Nack? Well, that tells me again listening to
19:29
Speaker 1: the attorney, he cleared some things up yesterday and this
19:31
Speaker 1: would be one of those things when he says again
19:35
Speaker 1: that you know, John Q Public is you know, full
19:38
Speaker 1: of bullshit. Here's part of his bullsh He could have
19:41
Speaker 1: told us this a while back. The family already gave
19:44
Speaker 1: the dental records and DNA for this very comparison if
19:48
Speaker 1: it came about, which again would have told us early
19:52
Speaker 1: on if he had released that information, that that's what
19:55
Speaker 1: the family fortunately was thinking had happened to the I
20:00
Speaker 1: think you're right, yep. I gotta say, you know, going back, Mac,
20:04
Speaker 1: do you remember, Nancy, do you remember it was what
20:07
Speaker 1: a week and a half ago, those two FBI agents
20:10
Speaker 1: showed back up at the house, remember, and they were right.
20:12
Speaker 1: They had They had two boxes with them, and I
20:15
Speaker 1: swear they look like boxes to retrieve DNA. And I
20:19
Speaker 1: think they were probably retrieving using the swab to get
20:21
Speaker 1: it from the parents so they could do a lot.
20:24
Speaker 1: That's what I think. Speaking of the lawyer disseminating a
20:28
Speaker 1: lot of let me just say unwelcome comments. I want
20:33
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to this. This is our
20:36
Speaker 1: cut three eight six him speaking with Tom Olamas NBC.
20:42
Speaker 1: Listen to this. Today is not the day to discuss
20:45
Speaker 1: the Gabby Petito case. I understand that that was the impetus,
20:48
Speaker 1: that that is the reason why all this is happening,
20:51
Speaker 1: But that doesn't explain why people come up with these
20:55
Speaker 1: nonsensical theories as to yesterday's events and some other events.
21:00
Speaker 1: Doesn't explained Tom, why major news organizations just yesterday. Yeah.
21:05
Speaker 1: What explains it is all of the misinformation and veiled
21:10
Speaker 1: comments that the lawyer has released. And now I'm wondering,
21:15
Speaker 1: did you hear Marsha Saiedi. At one point he the
21:19
Speaker 1: lawyer referred to the quote Gabby situation, the situation. Her
21:26
Speaker 1: dead body is a situation that his client left to rot.
21:31
Speaker 1: That's a quote situation. Did you hear that. I don't
21:35
Speaker 1: remember hearing exactly. Did he said that the Gabby situation.
21:39
Speaker 1: He definitely wasn't talking about Gabby Petito at all. He
21:44
Speaker 1: wanted to take that away. He wanted to be the
21:46
Speaker 1: conversation away from that. I will tell you another thing
21:49
Speaker 1: that he said it's about to me is he said
21:50
Speaker 1: that Brian was very upset when he left on September thirteenth.
21:54
Speaker 1: The family was so worried on September thirteenth. At one
21:57
Speaker 1: point he said the painful saga since the number thirteen.
22:01
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting that he's saying that the
22:05
Speaker 1: pain started for the family on September thirteenth, when we
22:09
Speaker 1: know that, you know, it had started long before the story.
22:13
Speaker 1: It's my understanding that he said that Brian Laundry was
22:20
Speaker 1: angry and upset that the father, Chris Laundry, tried to
22:25
Speaker 1: keep him from leaving, but he left us. Take a
22:29
Speaker 1: listen to Eric at three ninety five Top Story with
22:32
Speaker 1: Tom Lamas. No, they did not. What I can tell
22:35
Speaker 1: you is that Brian was very upset when he left
22:39
Speaker 1: and Chris conveyed to me several times that you know,
22:43
Speaker 1: he wished he didn't let him go, but he couldn't
22:45
Speaker 1: stop them. So this has been a painful saga for
22:49
Speaker 1: them since September thirteenth. It's been a long haul. But
22:54
Speaker 1: Brian is a grown man, young man twenty two years old.
22:57
Speaker 1: He wanted to walk out the door. He was a
23:00
Speaker 1: title to walk out the door. What do you make
23:02
Speaker 1: of that, Cheryl McCollum, Nancy, Again, part of my problem
23:05
Speaker 1: with this guy is if that were the case and
23:10
Speaker 1: he leaves the house upset and dad tried to stop
23:13
Speaker 1: him in coutting't why weren't the police called. Why did
23:18
Speaker 1: they not insist on going out there with them that
23:22
Speaker 1: very night the next day? Why when we're all watching
23:27
Speaker 1: this unfold, they're showing you an aerial view of where
23:30
Speaker 1: they're searching every day, and if you know he's in
23:34
Speaker 1: the park versus the reserve, why aren't you correcting that.
23:38
Speaker 1: I don't understand how any of this has unfolded without
23:42
Speaker 1: them losing their mind? Is that you massa jump in?
23:46
Speaker 1: That was made? Patrick? Go ahead, Massa, I'll follow you
23:51
Speaker 1: just really quickly. The attorney does claim the paren did
23:54
Speaker 1: look for him on the thirteenth, on the fourteenth, and
23:57
Speaker 1: on the fifteenth. Just want to make that quick point
24:00
Speaker 1: of clarification, Okay, back to you when they Massa and
24:03
Speaker 1: Charyla bringing out some really good points about this timeline
24:05
Speaker 1: and the lawyer's rule. So it's focus on the family
24:09
Speaker 1: right now now, especially given the first day of the
24:11
Speaker 1: park's open parents go out, they know that their son
24:15
Speaker 1: uses this particular trail, but as you mentioned, they didn't
24:17
Speaker 1: correct when they were all searching in the wrong in
24:20
Speaker 1: the wrong place, and so obviously now the lawyer feels
24:23
Speaker 1: like he has to sort of mitigate the damage that
24:26
Speaker 1: might have been done now that we're working backwards, because
24:28
Speaker 1: you know, the civil suits might be on the horizon.
24:30
Speaker 1: There may be wrongful death suits, and at the very
24:32
Speaker 1: least that's the way the investigation will be going, at
24:36
Speaker 1: least in part. So the line the lawyer has to
24:39
Speaker 1: walk is making sure we're not downplaying the tragedy that
24:43
Speaker 1: happened to Gabby Petito. But I think he's also trying
24:45
Speaker 1: to get almost a sneak preview of the evidence that's
24:49
Speaker 1: going to come out in court, at least in the
24:51
Speaker 1: court of public opinion. Once the focus shifts to the family,
24:54
Speaker 1: as it seems to be already doing. I feel very
24:56
Speaker 1: s the reason think he killed himself. The reason that
25:02
Speaker 1: he killed himself, I believe is because he was overwhelmed
25:05
Speaker 1: with guilt at murdering Gabby, of course, and that's why
25:08
Speaker 1: the parents didn't want him to leave on the thirteenth.
25:10
Speaker 1: But I'm going to say again, I want to try
25:12
Speaker 1: to be very clear. The parents may have gone back
25:17
Speaker 1: out there. My point is why did they not call
25:21
Speaker 1: everybody they know? Why wouldn't assistant brother in law out there?
25:25
Speaker 1: Why weren't they calling friends and co workers. Why weren't
25:28
Speaker 1: they demanding law enforcement meet them out there? On the
25:31
Speaker 1: thirteenth and the fourteenth, and the fifteenth, and the sixteenth,
25:34
Speaker 1: law enboards that says they didn't know nothing toil the seventeenth.
25:37
Speaker 1: So again we are left to believe people that have
25:40
Speaker 1: changed the date on us, change the location on us,
25:43
Speaker 1: change the fact when the cell phone was purchased or not.
25:47
Speaker 1: So we have been misled, whether on purpose or not.
25:51
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I want to say again what this
25:55
Speaker 1: guy's on a soapbox and listen to a cherild saying
25:58
Speaker 1: what everyone saying, talking so much he's taking advantage of
26:03
Speaker 1: this opportunity to be in front of the camera and
26:06
Speaker 1: express his views and entertain everybody that he's getting he's
26:10
Speaker 1: getting everything confused, he's giving misinformation, he's getting the public
26:14
Speaker 1: upset and continuing to go on. And then he's saying
26:19
Speaker 1: that everyone else is stupid, and he doesn't want to
26:21
Speaker 1: lock his clients into his statements. That's the other big problem.
26:25
Speaker 1: As a lawyer, can't get out there make statements. This
26:27
Speaker 1: is what the dad knew, this is what he thought,
26:29
Speaker 1: and then when this finally gets to court, that's not
26:31
Speaker 1: at all what the father or the mother wants to say.
26:33
Speaker 1: That's one of the other issues there. Now we are
26:35
Speaker 1: assuming phrase he used was he's a grown man. He
26:41
Speaker 1: can do what he wants to do. And your point
26:43
Speaker 1: is my point is is that he's trying to say
26:47
Speaker 1: that the parents had nothing to do with this Laundry.
26:51
Speaker 1: We have all been assuming that Brian Laundry committed suicide.
26:55
Speaker 1: And I guess you would argue Joe Scott Morgan that
26:58
Speaker 1: he did that by gunshots, since part of his skull
27:01
Speaker 1: is missing, yet his dental records were intact. Yes or no, No,
27:05
Speaker 1: I don't have any evidence to that well part of yeah,
27:08
Speaker 1: I know, and so I don't know. Maybe he was
27:10
Speaker 1: bludging for all I know, maybe fellow of the tree.
27:13
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't have enough evidence. Okay, as a
27:17
Speaker 1: matter of fact, take a listen to our cut three
27:18
Speaker 1: seven six is in Elite County Sheriff Carmine Marcino. Listen today,
27:23
Speaker 1: when I walked back there, I got to see firsthand
27:26
Speaker 1: the treacherous conditions that they were working on. We're talking
27:31
Speaker 1: about water levels up above almost a chest area, rattlesnakes, moccasins, alligators,
27:39
Speaker 1: and these heroes go out there. So what I'm looking
27:43
Speaker 1: at is the possibility that he did not commit suicide.
27:49
Speaker 1: What about that straight back out to massas said joining
27:53
Speaker 1: us from WFLATV. They're on the scene. Do we have
27:57
Speaker 1: any indication this was suicide or people assuming that? Right now?
28:02
Speaker 1: People are assuming that. But the lawyer, let me tell
28:06
Speaker 1: you one thing that hit me so hard. During the
28:08
Speaker 1: Tommy Amast interview, Tommy almost asked any idea of how
28:11
Speaker 1: Brian may have ended his life, and the attorney didn't
28:15
Speaker 1: correct him, didn't say, this isn't a suicide. You're making
28:18
Speaker 1: an assumption. So I don't know if I'm reading too
28:20
Speaker 1: much into that. But Tommy Aamas specifically said assumes that
28:24
Speaker 1: Brian had ended his life, and the attorney did not
28:26
Speaker 1: correct him. But as of right now, we don't have
28:30
Speaker 1: any manner of death here. If it was natural, if
28:33
Speaker 1: it was an accident, if it was a suicide, we
28:36
Speaker 1: just do not know at this point. Hey, do you
28:53
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan? We're talking about the notebook that may
28:56
Speaker 1: or may not be in the dry bag, which, coincidentally,
28:59
Speaker 1: if you we're going to leave a suicide note, I
29:01
Speaker 1: would think you would leave it in the vehicle for
29:04
Speaker 1: your parents to find it was not in the vehicle.
29:07
Speaker 1: Explain to me how that suicide note, if it's been
29:11
Speaker 1: in the water, can be restored. Okay, first thing we
29:15
Speaker 1: need to understand is that it's a paper product, so
29:17
Speaker 1: it's cellulo space. That means it's made out of organic material,
29:21
Speaker 1: tree material. Okay, So what they have to do. What
29:24
Speaker 1: they have to do is essentially freeze it, and I
29:27
Speaker 1: literally mean that, Nancy. They have to freeze this thing
29:30
Speaker 1: in place so that they can stop the decomposition, just
29:33
Speaker 1: like a body organic Remember, stop this decompositional process with
29:38
Speaker 1: the paper, because it's just falling apart at a molecular level.
29:41
Speaker 1: Then they have to take it and treat it like
29:44
Speaker 1: an archive like you would, I don't know, one of
29:46
Speaker 1: our precious documents in this country. And they have to
29:49
Speaker 1: have a question document examiner under control, very highly controlled
29:53
Speaker 1: circumstances to go in and once this thing is settled
29:57
Speaker 1: gently open to remember, they said they haven't even opened
30:00
Speaker 1: this thing yet, so they're actually keeping it in what
30:02
Speaker 1: we referred to as stasis that means kind of frozen
30:05
Speaker 1: in time until they can get it there in a
30:07
Speaker 1: secure location and then try to enhance. And my suspicion
30:11
Speaker 1: is this they're going to use something like infrared lighting
30:16
Speaker 1: is called alternative lighting sourcing in order to enhance what's
30:20
Speaker 1: in there, because, as we all know, ink smudges, and
30:23
Speaker 1: so they're gonna have to go back and one of
30:25
Speaker 1: the things they're gonna be looking at is how much
30:26
Speaker 1: pressure did he apply with a pen for instance, And
30:30
Speaker 1: sometimes with the pressure you can actually pick up on
30:33
Speaker 1: what was written even though the ink has been smudged
30:36
Speaker 1: or is running. Okay, let's get real just a moment
30:40
Speaker 1: about what may or may not be in that notebook.
30:42
Speaker 1: We've already heard Karen starts psychologists out of New York
30:45
Speaker 1: joining us to you, Cheryl McCollum. We've been on a
30:48
Speaker 1: lot of scenes homicide and suicide at best. What do
30:53
Speaker 1: you expect to get out of that notebook? I think
30:55
Speaker 1: it's a note book that he's had. He had the
30:57
Speaker 1: dry bag ready, he had the back hack ready, he
31:00
Speaker 1: had some type of writing instrument with him. There's going
31:03
Speaker 1: to be some of his past drawings and doodlings. You know,
31:06
Speaker 1: he'd liked to make those almost cartoon type figures. It's
31:09
Speaker 1: probably going to be a detailed, you know type summary
31:15
Speaker 1: his viewpoint of what happened. And I mean hopefully that's
31:19
Speaker 1: what's going to be in there, and hopefully it'll shed
31:21
Speaker 1: some light for both families. You know, I find it
31:24
Speaker 1: very interesting that they did not the parents did not
31:27
Speaker 1: go to the exact spot where they claim they thought
31:31
Speaker 1: he would have been hiking. Could you show some light
31:35
Speaker 1: on that MASSASAITI, Well, what the attorney says, if you
31:38
Speaker 1: want to believe them, as he said that. In fact, yes,
31:41
Speaker 1: on October seventh, Chris Laundry did not go to that
31:45
Speaker 1: exact location. For my recollection of the interviews, he did
31:48
Speaker 1: say that, but he has said that all along from
31:52
Speaker 1: the seventeen when he was officially reported missing to Northport PD,
31:57
Speaker 1: so that the search could presume. He says that that
32:02
Speaker 1: general area was identified to law enforcement, and so law
32:06
Speaker 1: enforcement looked at the trails in that general area, but
32:09
Speaker 1: because of water, law enforcement was not able to go
32:12
Speaker 1: off the trail. And I guess the question for me
32:14
Speaker 1: now is why that wasn't searched again once the water
32:17
Speaker 1: receded before they reopened the park. You know, I find
32:21
Speaker 1: the behavior very unusual, how everyone in the laundry camp
32:27
Speaker 1: wants us to not think about Gabby. You know, this morning,
32:32
Speaker 1: Gabby Potato's family is waking up full of pain and
32:38
Speaker 1: an emptiness and a hopelessness that now they'll never really
32:43
Speaker 1: know what happened and they will never have justice. That
32:48
Speaker 1: is agonizing Karen's dark. I can't think of anything worse.
32:52
Speaker 1: You're talking about their child, Nancy, You of all people, right,
32:57
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to your children, nothing is
33:00
Speaker 1: are important, and they won't really know what they're going
33:03
Speaker 1: to have if they find that in the notebook. Is
33:07
Speaker 1: some kind of defense that will make Brian appeared to
33:12
Speaker 1: be innocent and have been forced to do something. Who
33:17
Speaker 1: knows what he came up with, but they will never
33:19
Speaker 1: really know what happened to their daughter, and that is awful.
33:24
Speaker 1: And you know, Wendy Patrick, I've seen that with many
33:27
Speaker 1: crime victims that never get justice and it never goes away.
33:31
Speaker 1: No one never does. And you know, the best we
33:33
Speaker 1: can hope for is some level of closure because they understand,
33:36
Speaker 1: their questions are answered, they have what they need to
33:40
Speaker 1: heal and move on. But this is not one of
33:42
Speaker 1: those cases. And that's why our heart goes out to them,
33:45
Speaker 1: and to disregard their pain and just focus on Brian
33:49
Speaker 1: just makes that worse. And that's part of what we've
33:52
Speaker 1: been listening to the last couple of days, and we
33:54
Speaker 1: hope we can turn that around. Take a listen to
33:56
Speaker 1: our cut three nine four. This is again the family
34:00
Speaker 1: lawyer trying to shed light on what happened when Brian
34:03
Speaker 1: Laundry walks out of the house. Listen. So just one
34:06
Speaker 1: more thing about that, and I promise I will let
34:09
Speaker 1: it go. Did your clients go out to the reserve
34:13
Speaker 1: prior to yesterday morning on their own at any time? Yes,
34:19
Speaker 1: they did, back in early September, say early September, mid September,
34:24
Speaker 1: which would have been the fourteenth and the fifteenth. Were
34:27
Speaker 1: they there with Brian or with authorities? No, they were
34:31
Speaker 1: there on their own. That was the day after Brian
34:34
Speaker 1: had went to the hid and didn't come home. And
34:37
Speaker 1: what did they do there? They walked around the trails
34:41
Speaker 1: looking for Brian Initially? Is this when they picked up
34:44
Speaker 1: the car on the second day they think of the car? Correct?
34:49
Speaker 1: Did they find any items or anything that led them
34:52
Speaker 1: to believe that he was out there at that time
34:56
Speaker 1: aside the car? No? So do you McCollum again the
35:02
Speaker 1: lawyer seemingly putting out a lot of theory weight in Nancy,
35:09
Speaker 1: It's just I'm over it, because here's the reality. They
35:13
Speaker 1: knew a location they at ten pointed a very narrow
35:17
Speaker 1: place to start from the very beginning, but I don't
35:20
Speaker 1: think that was conveyed to law enforcement until four days
35:23
Speaker 1: later on the seventeenth. The reality is when law enforcement says, well,
35:28
Speaker 1: you know that was you know, full of water and
35:31
Speaker 1: you know all that sort of stuff. Dead body float period.
35:36
Speaker 1: Dogs can hit cadaver, dogs can hit on odors underwater.
35:40
Speaker 1: We put those dogs on boats all the time and
35:42
Speaker 1: they alert. And the reality here is you have somebody
35:47
Speaker 1: that did whatever they did, and whatever happened to them
35:50
Speaker 1: in a location that should have been saturated with police
35:56
Speaker 1: the day he didn't come home. The next day that
35:59
Speaker 1: he didn't come home, helicopters weren't used, dogs weren't used.
36:04
Speaker 1: Nothing happened until the seventeenth. And I still maintain with
36:09
Speaker 1: that attorney and those parents. If he did not come
36:13
Speaker 1: home the night of the thirteenth of the fourteenth, they
36:16
Speaker 1: should have been screaming from the rooftop to get law
36:19
Speaker 1: enforcement out there. They should have called everybody they know,
36:22
Speaker 1: and that did not happen. Will there be charges against
36:27
Speaker 1: the laundry parents? What about it? Massasati? And that is
36:31
Speaker 1: the question that comes about now. The attorney did talk
36:35
Speaker 1: about that yesterday. He said that there had been conversations
36:39
Speaker 1: that had been had with authorities, and he said these
36:43
Speaker 1: are just conversations that are ordinarily had. He said that
36:46
Speaker 1: the FBI did not pressure or coerce the family in
36:50
Speaker 1: any way, and he says that no deal has been made.
36:54
Speaker 1: That was in response to questions from reporters about whether
36:58
Speaker 1: the family was now eating with law enforcement, you know
37:02
Speaker 1: Mus's side. For there to be any prosecution, there has
37:06
Speaker 1: to be an overt act simply not calling police is
37:11
Speaker 1: not going to qualify for a prosecution. Yeah, they My
37:15
Speaker 1: understanding from talking with legal experts is that they would
37:18
Speaker 1: have had to try to clean up something from the van,
37:23
Speaker 1: try to cover up the crime for there to be
37:26
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, hold on, Cheryl McCollum, Jess got
37:28
Speaker 1: Morgan ker and start Wendy Patrick. What about from August
37:32
Speaker 1: twenty nine when they know he's coming home without Gabby
37:35
Speaker 1: and Gabby's car using her debit card, until the eleventh
37:38
Speaker 1: when they all go camping until the tha when he
37:41
Speaker 1: goes missing. I mean, what about all that time? What
37:45
Speaker 1: were they doing? I'll tell you what I think. The
37:47
Speaker 1: real devil in this whole thing is the first phone
37:50
Speaker 1: call from Gabby's family to Brian's mama. She did not
37:56
Speaker 1: answer the phone. She knew that death. She knew not
38:01
Speaker 1: days for the phone. She wasn't going to even risk
38:05
Speaker 1: having to make a statement to those folks. She knew
38:09
Speaker 1: long before the attorney says he left on the thirteenth.
38:15
Speaker 1: They knew long before that. We wait as justice unfalls.
38:20
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off Goodbye,