Latest / Beheaded / Death, Disfigurement, and One Verbal Warning | Pharaoh Ramses III's Conspirators

Transcript

Death, Disfigurement, and One Verbal Warning | Pharaoh Ramses III's Conspirators · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Beheaded episode number six.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Beheaded episode number six.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a very, very old execution to talk about today.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really uh way to good way to sell it, I think, is saying the oldest execution everyone's oldest.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you guys excited for the oldest execution.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oldest thing ever.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I should make a pre-mention.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am getting over a cold, and I really apologize because I've been hacking my face off for a week now.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if you hear really awkward pauses and things, it's because I'm trying to edit out me blowing my half my lung out of my mouth.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I did message Megan this morning.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, hey, you good?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are you fine to find out?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I got the expense of Musinex.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Musinex MD Max, whatever.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: No free ads.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a sponsor's.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have those.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't are interested, so tell us.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Please write to us if you are interested.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, like Megan said, oldest execution today.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, today we will be discussing Ramses III.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Egyptian.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's one of the last, and it's kind of funny we were talking about this at the beginning, but um, one of the last kind of well-known pharaohs um of the 20th dynasty.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh considered one of the last.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I there's some conflicting ideology, like one of the last great pharaohs, maybe the first turn of the kind of negative era following the 20th dynasty of the Egyptians.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we'll get into that.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: We first have a few follow-ups from our last episode before we jump into ancient Egypt.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I just want to really thank Elena, our Russian guest star, talking about the Romanovs with us.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was talking to Elena today and I was like, oh, it's podcast night.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to Megan's.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing our podcast.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, uh, she's like, well, if you ever want me to come podcast with you, like, not speak, but just hang out.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll come.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, uh, yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Silent podcaster just watching us.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Not tonight.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: She's not here tonight, but maybe in the future, Elena's just lurking in the corner listening and like laughing quietly.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: That she I'm very, as the great hostess that I am, I made some like frozen mini tacos.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: It had nothing on her Russian charcuterie board.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, they're fabulous, though.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: They were sour cream and some cholula sauce.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, no hatch cream chili peppers like episode one.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, true.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: My coughing is a natural cause.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not caused by chili pepper.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Natural causes is her cough.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but okay, so in the last episode, we had mentioned at um Nicholas, at Zar Nicholas's coronation, they gave away the souvenir cups.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I did post this on Instagram, but we found the cup.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: We were so excited.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right after we were done uh podcasting last time, we were talking with Elena and we were looking all over the internet, and we found on eBay, because you can find anything on eBay, we saw an 1896 Russian czar Nicholas cup.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it says Coronation Cup, and they're beautiful.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It actually.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I have to admit, I was thinking of when you go someplace cheesy and they give you like the souvenir cup and it's plastic, and when you dishwasher, like it comes off.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I get now why they killed each other to get these cups, and it's porcelain, it is beautiful, it's gorgeous.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, when I saw it, I was like, um, I'd easily trample at least 10 people to get this cup.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I it it's it has like, I think, I don't know, okay, and I'm tell me like if I'm history illiterate, but on it, I think it's either the the Romanov crust or the Russian crust, but there's like an eagle with like all this like regalia on it on one side, and on the other side it's his initials, and it's mostly like baby blue with little kind of like rust red as a as a liner, um, and like gold throughout.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really pretty.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is$650.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the current bid right now, or did it go up?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so what I'm seeing right now when we looked at it last time, it was$650.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm looking at right now, hey, this is a bargain for all you listeners.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: It is$490.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or from$4.98.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Does this qualify for a like a GoFundMe or something?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: You guys want to buy us this cup?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't realize we had so many things.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Our listeners wanted to buy us this cup, and then you know, maybe we host tonight.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's all for charity.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Charity.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm charity.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also charity.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe we host tonight where like we all drink from this cup and talk about that.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds sacrificial.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: It might be.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we need content, so we do.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole episode on that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: We are the execution drink from the Yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually a whole like conspiracy to get you to come over and have the biggest execution of all time.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, shall we jump into this?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just made it weird.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: You just made it weird.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was my awkward transition into like, let's get on to subject.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Megan was like, okay, segue into ancient.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's go.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um Ramsey's the third.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have okay.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Normally I know we chitter-chatter for a little bit, but we have so much freaking information here.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And well, I will say really quick before we get started, because this is the oldest execution we've covered thus far, um, there's a lot of conflicting theories.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's for many, many reasons.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know so much.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: A, because it's so old, all we have are these ancient papyrus scripts, we have ancient hieroglyphics, you know, just uh different archaeological sites.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So all we can do is deduct things from it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And not you know, ancient Egyptian is much different than like modern Arabic.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there are people today, there's only so many people that can eat even decipher some of these things that were written on the papy.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: How do you say papyrus fonts?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know, but papyriceoft words.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, papyrus is the um the paper.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: The paper.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you say like multiple papyrus?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Papyri?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is that excuse me?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: You made me laugh and pop.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm gonna, I don't know if that's the like papyrus, like the like fungi or octopi.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is it papyri?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Papyri.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna, I don't know, whatever.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say papyri because I think it sounds most- I think you're making that right.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think I am too.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: But this will be the episode, I think, with the most pronounced mispronunciations of our lifetime.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, we listen, we listen to like documentaries and listen to different scholars say these words and we practice.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: They all pronounce them different.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they pronounce them different, and then when we get going, we say something entirely different because it's like fragments of memory.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we're sorry for all, again, all of our many mispronounced words.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was just gonna say, but because you know, there's only so many people in history that can like decipher these papaye, and I'm just gonna I'm gonna keep using that word.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I did, I did, I'm gonna stop laughing.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't say it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but and uh another thing with with uh dealing with things this old too um is that depending on the culture, a lot of things were intentionally wiped from history, like because of certain disgraced characters in history, a lot of things were actually intentionally removed from history.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we have a lot of things against us in terms of the right interpretation, and um we have different technology available to us.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, certain things that you could do in the 1930s, maybe like touch the you know, skin of the mummy or whatever, you can't do now because of I don't know, just people coming and making sure like everything's handled properly, it's illegal.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can't dissect a mummy.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean what I don't know the right term you would use, but you kind of like um I don't know, defile the mummy.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can't like do certain things.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Take away your PhD and say don't touch this mummy again?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but it's like but I mean, but people who still live in it's who still live in Egypt and practice like some of the similar culture and religion, whatever.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: God, would they execute you for it?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: They might, yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're gonna very I mean it's a bad offense to be like I'm mishandling your 3,000-year history here.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So people have to like very cle like carefully monitor these scientists to make sure they're not like again, like defiling anything, they're not making anything unsacred.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if unsacred's the word.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we were just watching all these documentaries, and it's really cool.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is another part of history that I'm just not that familiar with in mummies in Egypt.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been doing a ton of research.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, Ramses III, though, this isn't just an execution story, but this is also a juicy murder story.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is, there's a lot of he was murdered, and just to jump to the chase on why this uh is an execution story, is because the people who are all found guilty for setting up his murder were all executed.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all of his conspiracy conspirators, um, yeah, they were they were all executed.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like we'll we'll get into obviously the details of their executions, as we always do.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there was at least 16 that were actually executed.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: There were 10 that were for suicide executions.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we'll talk about all of those details, but uh, but yeah, it's it's the biggest execution we've actually had so far.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know we talked about Salem Witch trials, which we thought were the biggest ones.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is bigger.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is bigger.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is a freaking pharaoh, that's why.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and pharaohs, you know, if if you know, they were essentially gods on earth.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: People regarded them in such a way, and that's why uh with certain things that involved uh pharaoh scandals or pharaoh murders, uh, executions related to the pharaoh, they were all very like dealt with very delicately because people were afraid of offending these gods on earth, of doing something that would uh you know hurt their afterlife or anything like that.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so so I think like one way to start with Ramses is he was very much a warrior and he was pretty successful because he was fighting off what they called the sea people or the seamen.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Seamen.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: The seamen.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sea people.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he had at least two battles that were big defeats, huge noteworthy battles.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Noteworthy battles that he won.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: But by putting his country through war like that, they ended up very like economically really poor.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the people are starving.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And this to me, the first thing I thought of was like, oh my gosh, here yet again, another monarch who his people are starving, they're in war and they all hate him because he is living in his palace, enjoying the palace, sitting on his throne, eating off his gold plates, having feasts, and living the life.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and unlike Marie Antoinette or Nikki Romanoff, who we've covered before, like those those monarchs were very much like they inherited this grand throne and they squandered most of their life away.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: He, on the other hand, was again a very successful pharaoh when he was younger because he reigned for over 30 years.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So his reign was from uh 1186 to 1155 BC.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: BC.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's what BC backwards, yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you're like, oh, because these are going in reverse.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is 3,000 years ago.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was so long ago, but again, one of the last great pharaohs of the 20th dynasty.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so again, there are there are different accounts of his life, but in general, people say that he was a great pharaoh when he was young because he was a warrior, he was known to have great military strategy, so he led all of these huge um uh wars against the sea people, against some of the Libyans that were invading from the opposite side.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he was known in his younger years to be quite an amazing pharaoh.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: He, you know, because he he was an all-conquering, all power all-powerful man.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: But as he got older, when he started approaching his 50s and 60s, like some of the other monarch monarchs that we've discussed, he really got comfortable with his wealth and his harem and his right to the throne and God-given ability.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't even have clothes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: They and they also lost all of their grain, which was a big thing.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they had this strange atmospheric thing that happened where for almost two decades there was like something that poisoned not poisoned, but uh inhibited like the the growing of grain.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they literally couldn't grow their main crop in Egypt for a long time.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: They couldn't sell it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So everything is being imported for high prices because none of the other prices changed because all other areas of the region were fine, but their one area was if was deeply affected.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And just to be clear on geography, really quick, I we didn't talk about this in the beginning.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there, if you go like so Cairo is kind of like northeast um Egypt, like right on the Nile.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you follow the Nile south, more towards like the southern part of Egypt, that's where the area we're talking about is.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's where Thebes is, which is right across the Nile from the Luxor.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you've heard of these cities, um and so like Vegas, is what you're saying.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like right across Chris Angel is out of Egypt.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I yeah, Chris Angel performs there.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've been there, I've been to the Luxer.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: She's like you have actually been to Cairo.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have, yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have never been to uh the lower part of Egypt, but yeah, I've been to Cairo before.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you're the best one that tells you she's like doing hand motions too.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like trying to follow along the geographic.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is how it bends through the land.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I yeah, fun fun fact.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've been to Cairo.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've I was there for five days because I studied abroad in Athens in college.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I lived in Athens for about six months, and uh I had Yeah, same.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as do all who go to college.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I I uh Long Beach is that what she said.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Long Beach, Athens.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Did not go to shout out.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I I lived there for six months and um I I spent a weekend in Egypt.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not weekend, it was like a five-day excursion with all the the girlfriends I live with, all the um, oh shout-out girlfriends who I lived with in uh Athens.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we all we all went to Egypt to win to Cairo for five days, and it was really, really amazing because obviously these this is a place you've heard about since you were a kid of the great Egyptian pyramids and the Nile, and like, you know, you had no idea what it was gonna be like in in present time.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we had an amazing experience, honestly.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like there were moments where it was a little bit scary, I'm not gonna lie.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's technically the Middle East, so we had to hire the same driver who took us around everywhere.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, had to make sure everything was very well planned and we went to a very nice hotel to make sure everything was very secure.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but two of the like coolest things that we did was one, we went to the Egyptian Museum, which is where two of these mummies currently.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where Ramses III is.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Ramses III, and we'll talk about the other mummy in a in a bit later here.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: But two of the main mummies were held, which is funny because I told Megan we were watching this documentary on the Egyptian Museum and these mummies specifically, and I was like, okay, when I went into this museum, I mean, I yes, I was 1920, I wasn't like astute in like looking at the museum from this very, you know, uh discretionary point of view.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I looked at this museum as a 19-year-old and I was like, this shit looks kind of thrown around.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like this, like they have so many mummies and artifacts and whatever that I swear, like it was like someone just went in there and was like, all right, like throw those five mummies over there and this pottery you're gonna put behind this glass, and you know, I don't know where that's gonna go.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Put it over there.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what it looked like.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't look like someone sat there and like well thought out the layout of this museum.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: It looked very hodgepodgy, very but also like some of the most historical artifacts that these ever come across.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like so much rich history, and you know, and so if you're a better educated person than I was when I was 19, you would you would appreciate all of the things that were in there.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: But me being so young, I was just like, okay, there's a lot of stuff stuffed in this museum.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then another cool thing that we did was we went to the pyramids.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so, uh sorry, I don't want to make the story too long, but it was very cool because we we went to a perfume shop, like a local perfume shop where the guy also sold tours to the pyramids.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they took us um on camel.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: We had to get off on like camel back, and they took us across like the streets of of Cairo and they led us into the desert, into the pyramids, which is much closer to Cairo than many think.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: People think, like, oh, these pyramids are in the middle of nowhere in the desert.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's right next to Cairo.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you look if you look at the opposite side.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I've seen I've seen like videos of it where you can see the city from the city.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a super dirty city.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's garbage piled in the streets, you know, and they lead you through this, like these little tiny corridors, like into the desert, and you see the pyramids.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what's funny is they're it's very like it's not formal.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you go to a lot of these historic sites like Notre Dame or La Familia da Sangrada in Barcelona, like all these places are like very well orchestrated in terms of how you get in and how you pay and whatever.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: When you're going to the pyramids, they like have you on camels and they're like, Okay, it's the pyramids, uh, there they are.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: There they are.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, okay, well, can we get close?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can we get closer?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're you know, a hundred yards away from the pyramids.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to pay, and we're like, oh, okay.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, and it's like it's not expensive.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: You throw them more, I don't know, what they're called, Egyptian pounds.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, here's your Egyptian pounds, like, let's go closer.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you get closer, and like every 50 yards, they're like, Okay, uh, do you want to get closer?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Oh, and they keep asking for more money.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they keep charging you.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so how much does it cost just to get there?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's what you'd say, but like, I want to be there.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how much I pay for it.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I should have been more direct.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, me being 19, I was like, oh, I don't know, they're asking for more money.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they they they prey on people like me.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Target.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we paid so much to the point where, again, we were at the actual pyramids.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: We went into one of the tombs, which is crazy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the large pyramids are the king's pyramids, they're the king's tombs.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the smaller ones, which are the ones we were able to physically go into, were the queen's pyramids.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you go down this very narrow little hall, and you're essentially going down like a backwards ladder/slash stair um until you get into the tombs at the bottom.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I laid in one of the queen's tombs, like where the um sarcophagus goes.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this is just this big, deep thing.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to, I I not had to, I wanted to.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Elizabeth, don't do it.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, don't lay in the tomb.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get a weird Egyptian curse.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm laying in the tomb.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: You are absolutely 100% cursed.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I lay in the tomb.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've had bad luck for the last 10 years because you remember what Elena said in the last episode, too.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you lay in the coffin, then I have a problem.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: You have multiple instances of you being in tombs and coffins.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have a problem.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I see a tomb or a coffin, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna lay down in this.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just I get this weird thrill.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I lay down in those, and my friends did not lay down in them, they were very mad at me.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, I have a weird 10-year-old at least hex on me.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: But Egypt is great.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Go there.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's a long ad for Egypt.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Go.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I hope all of that can stay in there because it was it was.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I apologize, the long story.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so people are starving.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um Ramses is living on his throne in his palace.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought this was interesting.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: The they actually caused the first strike in known history because they were so hungry and they were literally saying, We are hungry, they stopped working for Ramses because he had hundreds of servants in his palace.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the first of people showing that they are not big fans of Ramses anymore.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: He may have gotten them through a lot of good wars and he started off on a good foot, but he was stretching it out too far.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he was, and actually, for being, I I saw either 62 or between 62 and 65 years old, but that was also pretty old for back then.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he's an elderly man at this time, definitely.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And people are getting frustrated.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny too, because when you hear of labor strikes these days, it's all over like, oh, our working conditions and more money.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: This was literally like, um, we need food.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I need basic things to survive here.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was kind of an interesting note.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, yeah, it's a labor strike, but literally they're slaves and they just need food.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the one other thing that's really important about Ramses is he had a lot of wives and big harem.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was called the harem.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, what this murder comes down to is called the harem conspiracies.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you ever want to look up more into this, um, a good keyword is harem conspiracies.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, this is what they kind of coined this whole situation.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: But uh most pharaohs had one, what was it called?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: The great wife, the great wife, who was like their go-to number one chica.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: But Ramses was a little greedy and he had two great wives, which was not normal.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can all imagine how that situation would have panned out.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like women.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, like, you know, if you're gonna be in that era and you're gonna have a harem, you know, name one one woman the head bitch.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's she's the girl that's like, ooh, I lay down the rules.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's the I'm number one.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's who I'm gonna he's gonna go to every time, and you guys are just accessories.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're just accessories.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're for fun, you're just here, you know, to give him pleasure, whenever.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like Hugh Hefner.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like Polly was his head girl for a while.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then he had his other playgirls, playmates, playmates, yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what the harem was.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and even when they had the three main ones on Girls Next Door, I like they were taking it to such a sophisticated level here, but um, but even when he had his three main one, you still need to be around.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Comparing Ramsey's with Hugh Hefner.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're both old.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Old.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh many women around recently passed, but oh I think he is, I know, past tense.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh have you seen those like funny memes where it's like you can't really say Hugh Hefner's in a better place now?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know, terrible, terrible uh anyway.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um but yeah, so yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So when you pit two girls, two snakes in a snake pit together, what's gonna happen?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think was gonna happen?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And he did nothing to, you know, settle the jealousies or the politics of his harem.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: He did nothing to make sure like people knew their place or uh, you know, whatever the dynamic was in here.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't he he just let them kind of fight it out and uh develop these gossips and these stories and whatever, and just develop a mutual hatred and mutual jealousy of each other.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the harem was also isolated from the rest of the community.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they are in this palace all day long, gossiping and sleeping with the same man.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, tempers are flaring.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And our one of our main protagonists of the story is Queen Taya.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Taya.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: She sounds like a She's like number one slotherin.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sierra.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Teya, Taya, Taya.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Queen B Thea over here.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Queen B Thea, she really wanted her son.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you're gonna love this name.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: See who could butcher it the most.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: We got this this time.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Pentaware.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Pentaware.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: We had a hard time.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Pantyware.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: We said pantyware.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm calling him tubware.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's my tubware.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Nickname for him.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: We just called him P Dog at some point.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: But Pentaware is his.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this is like the name of like a like a tubware brand.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's an industrial strength, it's Pentaware.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Commercial grade.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Commercial grade, too.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if your name is Pentaware, you're not gonna be a Pharaoh.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I hate to spoil it for you.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of want to name like my next future dog Penta Pentaware and just see who gets it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Very few popular.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not not no one will get it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: But this is Queen Taya's son.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And all she wanted her the other lead queen or great wife, Queen Essay.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: They both had sons.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: They were both roughly around the same age, and they both wanted them on the throne.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the other son was named Ramses IV.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a good like who are you gonna put on the throne, Pentaware?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Ramses IV.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Spoiler alert, which one do you think is gonna take the throne?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ramses the Fourth or Tubberware.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Pentaware.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Prince Tubbaware.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: He um is okay, so they're trying to get him on the throne, and they're really, so Ramses is kind of like living out his days.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: He's too old.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: People don't like him anymore.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So they come up with a plan to get rid of him.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they pull a lot of people into this whole conspiracy.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: To be clear, Taya was the one.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Taya.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Taya really was the first.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Essay was kind of content because Queen Essay, she was obviously the mother of uh Ramses IV.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: So she knew inherently, like, well, obviously, my son is taking the throne.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's the first in line for the throne.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm technically the first great wife.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So she really didn't have much to fear except for the jealousy of um Taya and her son.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Taya was the one that concocted an entire scheme and thought, you know what?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And again, when you're in a harem, I mean, again, what do you have better to do?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like what we talked about in episode two uh with the mean girls of 1692.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what else do you have to do?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're in a harem all day with all these other women.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I would plan people's deaths as well.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would 100% plan people's deaths.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm too much of a Hufflepuff.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I would probably just like you just frolic in the jacuzzi all day.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they did.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think they had a pool and according to some of these documentaries, it looked really nice.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and what's funny too is like a lot of these references don't reference the uh um sexual relationships that these women probably had outside of the pharaoh.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Again, if you're a group of, I don't know how many women.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I let's say 500 women saw a number.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's a high number, whatever he has.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: But but if you're one of those women locked up, I mean, odds are your eyes are gonna wander.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just gonna solely have eyes for the pharaoh.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Your only fear is mortal death.
• 25:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you get caught with somebody, but you're probably gonna, you know, flirt with the pantry boys, flirt with the butlers, flirt with the guards.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're a woman, you're young, you're beautiful, you're in the harem.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're most likely gonna have something.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Taya used that to her advantage.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where she really, and again, there's no real documentation because we only have ancient papyrus scripts.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have real documentation, but she exerted her influence outside of the harem and used butlers, used pantry boys, used anyone who was in the hospital.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they started creating these allies and then they would deliver have them deliver messages for them, and they started building this plan.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where it gets really interesting, is this is we had just mentioned that there this was 3,000 years ago, and it's not really a lot of information on exactly what happened, but now more details are coming out.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so many different theories.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when when we first decided we were gonna do this episode on Ramses III, I quit go on to YouTube and start watching documentaries.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the very first one I watched, I was like, oh my gosh, this is fascinating.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was a National Geographic, but it was a little bit older.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this historian was just gun-ho, so confident that he was killed by a snake.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And not just snake poison put into his wine or something, but somebody actually brought in, like, snuck in a viper of one of the deadliest types and put it in his bed.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And she was even looking at the m mummy, like, see, those are the snake bites on his neck.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And did you just say they held the snake in a specific way that they held it?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they would they would like um squeeze its head, which evidently this type of viper would then go stiff and straight, and it was two feet long, and they call it like this is the perfect weapon, and they would slide it up at their sleeve and like get this like sneak the snake in past.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you did 3,000 years ago.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm watching this documentary and I'm like, holy crap, this is the coolest murder ever.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Come and like none of that actually happened, but this is where we got confused because there's so many different theories.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, up until 2011, they really got more information from doing a CAT scan on the mummy, and just modern technology got us the answer.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And they could see more.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And like I mentioned earlier, they weren't allowed to dissect this mummy, they're still not allowed to.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many sacred things um that are attached to this mummy and to ancient Egypt.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not allowed to just cut open the mummy and say, hey, Ramses III, like what actually happened to your body?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they are barely allowed to touch the mummy.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're just skimming the surface.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're barely allowed to touch the mummy.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking at it from all angles with little tiny flashlights, and when they finally do a C scan, they're able to see all of these things inside.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what they finally discover is that he was slit deep in his throat, like so deep that it hit the vertebrae.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so but they hit it at first, and that's why nobody saw this because they put the mummy wrappings around his neck in the world.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: The people who buried him, yeah, and you would not have known this unless you did a scan or if you opened up the wrappings, which you're not allowed to do.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't until 2011 that we figured this out, so yeah, that kind of helps put the pieces together super.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Super random tangent.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, me and Megan both separately went to the mummy museum in downtown Phoenix.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've got to be able to do that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: We forgot about that.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Mummy exhibit.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: She went with her husband, I went with my boyfriend.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh we we thought it was so funny because there's one part where they talk about how in I guess the early 1900s, maybe late 1800s, people would buy real mummies from Egypt as like a party gag gift kind of thing.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like a hand or yeah, maybe maybe a whole mummy, maybe a hand, a certain body part, and they would put it on like the dinner table after you were done having dinner and you were just drinking and talking, because obviously there was no, you know, Netflix back then.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like a piece of like a conversation topic.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was like a conversation piece where you're like, oh my god, I bought this.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Look at this hair.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they would do an unwrapping ceremony where they would take apart the mummy and they'd find sometimes they'd find old jewelry or old things.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like what it made me think of is those candles that you buy and it melts down and there's a ring, and it might be like a five-dollar ring or like a diamond ring.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what are we gonna find when we unwrap this as our after dinner entertainment?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: We should look up next eBay search.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: We want to find a hand.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a mummy hand out there, we will find it and start a different GoFundMe.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, but but yeah, so though that's kind of funny that now thing, I mean not now, they were always held sacred, but back in that day they were, it was so like willy-nilly if you could buy these things and unwrap them.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's so weird.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now they can barely even touch like the Pharaoh with their like latex gloves.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, going back to our story though, so they know they're gonna kill Ramses.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's all these people involved, and interesting part, and this for sure showed up in all of the I'm being sarcastic, this did not show up in any of the findings when they started excavating these mummies.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: But what really they theorized killed Ramses was black magic.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, duh.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So they they got the local magician involved.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Local magician.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: From the magic show.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And his job is to they bought these little or not bought, they made these wax figures kind of like voodoo dolls or the puppet dolls that we talked about before.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And their plan was to kind of like seduce the guards and render their their guard.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and they uh they actually put drugs in the air too that kind of made like hallucinogen.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: They did both of those things.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they did they had the wax figures and they had these like drugs that were emitted throughout the air to make the the guards kind of feel funky and a little bit out of it.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And also get Ramsey's like seduced and isolated and go Which he's already put to be like prepared to be seduced.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and he's going to his harem.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: This was on the night of a celebration as well.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, which is the same.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So they meant the the Bennett I'm gonna butcher this name, Medinet Haboo night, which is like a celebration for his reign.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was like his 30-year reign.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're in a you're when you were a Pharaoh for 30 years, they had this special celebration, uh, the Medinet Haboo.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um every year after that they celebrate too.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's like your first recognition of like, hey, you're old, and then hey, time to get going here.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then every year after that, they celebrate.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we celebrated your first 30 years, and then your 31st year, and your 32nd year, your 33rd year.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, so that was when they they plotted all of this.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is in um the Thebes area across from Luxer.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: And really, the only way we know all of this is from the Judicial Papyrus of Turin that we had mentioned, is um basically like the court documents.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was like quote unquote Egyptian court documents of what's going on.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's this huge document.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's an 18-foot scroll.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: 18-foot foot scroll, this ancient papyrus.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's a lot of fragments.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it was removed.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, there's only I forget what they said in the documentary, but there's only a handful of people that can even decipher it because of uh different language, it's in like hieroglyphics.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, but people know hieroglyphics.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it was ancient Egyptian something or other.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was a form uh of script that not many people can read.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they're kind of deducing what happened just from this script.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this script was very cool.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: I wish we had a translation.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's one of those things where, like, if you don't have a PhD, you can't see everything online, unfortunately.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Megan and I were like looking, we're like, oh, I found the translation, and it was like locked.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: You must have like a Cambridge password to log on and see more.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone can find uh yeah, the these specific papers, that would be fabulous.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, but basically the this document outlined every single conspirator, like what they did, their level of guilt, um, and what their sentence was, which is the most fascinating part because all the sentences, there's so much speculation as to what happened to each individual conspirator, each individual person.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in the uh we've we saw snippets of it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I want to shout out, I'm gonna say, Alexander Lakon Lakanoff.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Lokinoff, who's a research scholar from Cambridge, um, but he wrote a paper on this.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So he wasn't able to, you know, translate the exact documents, or maybe I didn't see that part because I'm not a PhD.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he has this portion where he outlined all of the executions and forced suicides of the case.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so let's get a little bit into that too.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So what we know so far is it's on the night of their celebration and he gets cut in the throat.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the mummy also showed that a toe was cut off, possibly by an axe, which makes it look like there was multiple assailants, there was struggle.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for sure he dies.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, this in itself is part of the different interpretation.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Some people think that had it been poison or the snake, like the one theory I saw before, they thought he didn't die right away.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Some people didn't know if he died at all.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: But at this point, I think, in time, I think we're we're confident to say he got his throat cut that night and maybe a toe, and he's dead.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, people are pointing fingers, and unfortunately, they weren't that quick and not that smart because they found the text of their messages and kind of putting this plan together.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're ancient papyrus, like it was passed through, you know, butler boy to pantry boy.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like in high school, you have your little notes.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they found their notes, very incriminating.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: In the end, there's 33 people who are all a part a part of this plan.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Some of these people are the chief of the chamber, the pantry dude guy, the magician.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's actually uh the snake lord, the snake and the lord of the snakes, which is part of the reason they thought maybe a snake was involved.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because these are like the snake charmers.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they still do think that there may have been some snake poison involved, like even though he was um slit in the throat.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: They think it might have been like a Ross Button situation from the last episode where he was poisoned first to see if that would kill him, and maybe when it didn't, they're like, oh, we need to do something more drastic and slit his throat.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there still are, you know, we'd again like unconclusive, inconclusive rumors um that there was some snake venom involved that maybe have put in his cup or something.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of evidence.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they were really trying to get rid of him, so yeah, you know, do all you can.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and this is I love this part.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: So there's 12 judges, and they're they put them all on trial, they're actually torturing them as well, trying to get information, all that good stuff.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's 27 men and six women of the harems.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the six women are like, well, we don't want to be accused.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's uh get some of these judges and seduce them.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, if you're good at one thing, you're working.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you work, you you work your talents.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they had a little party with five of the judges, and they were drinking and they were partying, and they were absolutely trying to get on their good side and kind of manipulating the decision of what was going to happen.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is while the trial's going on.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and these five judges, they they got caught.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: They got caught.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: They done they dung got caught.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I actually I saw that there were six.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I saw that, and we were laughing at this.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, but in um part of the um uh judicial papyrus scripts, we saw that of these judges, one was actually forced into suicide, and four were mutilated, one was given a verbal reprimand.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Reprimanded.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: This was what I got.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Suicide?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, really quick though, we'll talk more about what this suicide means, but this was actually a form of execution of them saying, Hey, you gotta go kill yourself.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta go kill yourself.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So he was committed to suicide, disfigurement, they got their ears and noses cut off.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: One all of a sudden was reprimanded.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like a slap on the wrist.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: It literally makes me think of like, you're like, oh gosh, we forgot to tell Jerry that he wasn't supposed to do that.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Megan, did you tell Jerry that he was supposed to be executed?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna give him a quick talking, hey Jerry, shouldn't have done that.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is your first warning.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a written warning.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we put this on some papyrus.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And next time you do this.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, I told Jerry that if he does this again, it is not tolerated, he will be disfigured or he has to commit suicide.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is a zero tolerance kingdom.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: If he does it again, zero tolerance.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, I'm warning you.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but it really didn't work out for for the women either.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: But so, according to again, the judicial papyrus of Turin, um the all the sentences were giving out, and that that's what this document entails is person and what what it included the defendant's name, the crime, and the sentence, and it was as simple as I have a quote of one of them actually said he was placed before the nobles of the court of examination, they found him guilty, they brought his punishment upon him.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like some of them were as simple as they were a bit vague.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: They did.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, so one thing that they did, and um, I think this shows again their reverence towards the afterlife because uh a few notes that we read said that they they changed their names or gave them fake names in these trials to introduce them to the afterlife of this is who you're dealing with in the afterlife.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, some some names that were uh given this blind servant, Ra hates him, Ra hates him, the snake demon, evil one in Thebes, Ra blinds him, his ear cut off, and the evil hui, whatever that is.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if they just change your name as like the one that no one likes.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and these are people that were actively now.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the gods will actually think that this is their name.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: They pass them on into the afterlife with these names, like, ah, we really got him, Ra knows he hates him.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And this is such a big part though of Egyptian culture, of the afterlife.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we it was really hard to find information on what why they intentionally had some of them commit suicide.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that because it was unclear if that was a harsher punishment than being Did it disqualify them from the afterlife if you kill yourself, which may have.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: In that case, that's like a punishment on a punishment.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not only do you have to die, but you also don't get the afterlife that we all praise for and get excited for.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: It might have barred you from afterlife, or they might have loved the sheer fact that it kind of messed with you psychologically.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because like you being like, okay, you're sentenced to die by burning, which was a common thing in Egypt where they burned people alive.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you can get, you know, dragged to this.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you're you're being dragged, do it, do it, right?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Making you do it yourself.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: You fighting for your life and being dragged to a fire is different than you standing in a room alone, maybe, just being like, all right, do it.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Gotta do it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because that, like, again, psychologically, it's like who knows how much cliff on your own versus someone pushing you.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'd almost rather be pushed.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, you know what?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: You don't just just push me.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to have to do this on my own.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the third thing I read is perhaps they gave the sentence of suicide um to some of the more higher people who were who were um accused.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: A little more of a luxury.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but again, we don't know if it was a luxury.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not public then, because then those were private executions and they didn't have to do it in front of everybody.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: They were just, you know, cozy in their bed.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: We did know that Pantaware had a private execution.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: He was one of the 33 who was committed to suicide.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw uh I watched one thing that it was poison.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: However, there's also new theories that he was when they did these new C scans of the bodies and everything.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: What they saw was that his his lungs were really enlarged, and based on the way that his head was positioned and his throat was kind of like cinched, they they actually think that it was a strangulation, like a self-inflicted strangulation.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot of people.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe he he hanged himself.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we can't be quite sure because there's again, there's a lot of different theories around it.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on who you talk to and what what researcher looks at the body, and because we're not allowed to dissect the bodies, we can only see so much.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so some people think again that it was a um private ceremony that he had where he maybe strangled himself uh or or suffocated himself.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Others think that it was actually one of the only instances of like alive mummification.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they might have like thrown him into a tomb where he was struggling for breath, and that's why his lung.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of what he wanted it to be, right?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: We were actually some mummy scene, like we were putting your tongue out, throw you in the tomb, put scorpions in there.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: We always take it back to movies, but the mummy, fabulous movie.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we were looking for like oh, I was looking for that execution and I couldn't like who's actually been mummified alive, we've got to know.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who who cut their organs out while they were still alive and that cut their tongue off when they were like an inch from death.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this was one of the only ones we saw that might have been a speculation as to a mummification alive, is because he's he's also referred to as a screaming mummy because when you look at his corpse, his like jaw is literally like jammed to one side.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: He looks like he's screaming, he's like gasping from it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's really actually a frightening image.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Post a picture of it.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, post picture, you'll hate it.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: You will hate it.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you hate it.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you hate it.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this is interesting.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: So because Queen Tea and her son Tubbaware were the only they were kind of like pantywear.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: They were like the main um, like, what am I trying to say?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like the focus the um The conspirators.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: The conspirators, yeah.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean is the this conspiracy benefited them.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: They were in the middle of it, that's what I'm trying to say.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they benefited them the most.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so their tombs were actually like which makes so they said that they erased their names off their tombs.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: I also got to think, why don't you even put their names on there in the first place if they're just gonna erase kind of funny to really do because it didn't put him on there at all?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I saw some some references like that.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, they removed him from the tomb or and they did this to the tomb.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Why but he was already dead?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you put him in the tomb, and then you were like, hehe, but we'll erase this tomb.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: That was another layer to their punishment though, was let's remove their legacy, and that also again disqualifies them from the afterlife if they don't have this elaborate tomb and mummification.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is almost nothing on Queen Taya.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Except for the court documents.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: The court documents and potentially there was one like mural on the city.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say the mural that looks like she got hacked out of it.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like somebody carved out her part of the tomb.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the cartouche mural.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the cartouche is your Egyptian name.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a little bubble where it has your proper name in inscripted in.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if your cartouche is gone, your name is gone.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there was one big mural um in Thebes where her maybe I wouldn't Don't know if it's hers, but a woman is standing next to the pharaoh and it has her cartouche like very intentionally removed like a very long time ago.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that is some sp there's some speculation there that that is where you know she takes her place in history, even though it's removed, but there's no other name of hers other than the court documents.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing about the other women.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't know how the women died.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I also, and again, I I hate that this is like an episode like we've heard this, but we've also heard this, but it's just true.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just so there's a lot, but there's also more questions than answers with all of the evidence we have from I mean, 3,000 years ago.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not we It's not right.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: So much of it is lost.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I saw evidence.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Some historians said that the remaining people who were executed were burned to death at the stake, which is a common, it was a common Egyptian execution.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Others say that they were impaled.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Which, oh, that's oh, they didn't spike coming through your body.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they made it a point to say slow impalement.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Slow impalement.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that was somewhat of a common thing to well, not common, but the messed up part of me, and that's probably this is why I do this podcast, is I almost want it to be impalement just because that's so bad.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's so cool and it's so gross to be slowly impaled with a spike.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And as we mentioned before in like the Marie Antoinette episode, how the guillotine was like the modern new hoppin hot invention at the time of like, oh, look how quickly we can kill someone.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is a thousand years before Christ.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't want it to be quick.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, or even if they did, they couldn't do it quickly.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of ways that they killed people was slow and painful.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: They did have the headaches.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was, but they were more hacking hacking kind of decapitations where it wasn't swift, it wasn't a guillotine, it was very much like a severing saw-like thing, which is awesome.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have a list of the ways.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, I'm literally looking at my list right now.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, drowning was very common.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, drowning.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Burning alive.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have what's called the cane.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, which is what they did is there was a cane.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's non-fatal, that's just torture.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have, yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: It can kill this, but I made a note that they did this for illegal traders, tax evasion, and then people who like like stolen goods.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Stolen goods and things.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: They would do a hundred strokes of the cane plus five severe cuts.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: So like a big hack.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: They like to take off little body parts like ears.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was another one.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Disfigurement and mutilation.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: They that they did that a lot for thieves.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of thieving, kind of like Aladdin, you know, where if you take an apple, you get your cut off.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: I have a no disfigurement and mutilation plus fines.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Plus fines, also fines.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not only would you get your ear cut off, but then you'd have to pay for it.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think speaking of paying for it?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because we've talked briefly in the past how you had to kind of pay for your executioner.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think when they had to commit suicide, that was like, hey, I don't have to pay for an executioner.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a DIY.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's true.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it's like, okay, do you want the expensive death or do you want like the DIY death?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can just do it yourself, take care of it.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: We'll just like cut out a lot of the show.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: We won't give you much material here.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to work.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think they had a deadline?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to have it done by this?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they have to.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have a deadline if you're talking about suicide.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um they also did an imprisonment in deep pits and wells for debtors, people who were in a lot of debt, and for deserters.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then their prisoners of wars were impaled on spikes or just slaves, or became slaves.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but one thing that was funny too is like we talked about with the um uh the tr this trial, is that sometimes the pharaohs wouldn't really want to be held responsible for the death of other people.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: So they would either either leave it up to their oracles or their viziers, like these people who were these mystique people who decided the fates of others, they kind of left it up to them to like you decide the sentence because I'm just the pharaoh.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm a god on earth and I love all beings.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: You are the one that's supposed to like implement the harsh, like like things.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're jumping around here.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: We know we are.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're I think you can tell we're excited.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we're jumping about a little bit.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a really good thing you bring up, Elizabeth, is the way that they even came to the conclusion of what their deaths, if they were gonna be sentenced to death or not, was hey, let's talk, let's talk to the gods first.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk to the gods.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: They would they would involve the priests, they would take hallucinate who hallucinatory, is that the word?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like hallucinks hallucinations.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hallugens?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they excuse me, it better speak to the gods.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then they used an oracle of it's the best visual I have of this is like a Ouija board, but it was like this big thing that they paraded, and it was kind of like, you know, the Ouija board, you ask a question, yes or no, and you let it move on its own.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: They would have this oracle and they would parade it around.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: And once the oracle started to move, they would stop and they're like, okay, we're gonna get an answer.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then you asked a direct question: should this person be sentenced to death?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if the people who were holding the oracle in this parade started moving forward, it was a yes.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: If they started moving backwards, it was a no.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: But supposedly it was the gods who was like forcing them to walk in that direction.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: But really, it was their own.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: They were making their own decision.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, they all walked forward, they were all getting killed.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: If they keep walking forward the way they have been, it's a yes they should be executed.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, you did.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: You have something else?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: You looked like you were ready to say something, and I was accepted.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, again, sorry, mine's a little bit backwards because we talked about the the follies of the lesser punishments or the torture, but I was just gonna go back to really quick the uh the reason why that they would burn people alive or decapitate them, like the harshest punis punishments were usually crimes against the afterlife.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you raided a tomb, if you defiled a monument, like things that meant something in the afterlife, that was usually when the most harsh form of punishment was was given.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because like things like theft or whatever, again, they like Megan and I just described, like they all had different levels of punishment, but the harshest things you could do were like again, defile the gods or defile the afterlife, like say you know, do something that really hurt like a tomb or someone entering the afterlife afterlife.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Which is funny because of all these examples, we didn't mention murder, like murder wasn't about tax and and debt.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like if you were a fraud, if you stole things, it's basically like a big government ploy.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's no real like Wow, I didn't even think of that.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's something I read too.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: That it was like they were basically saying it's funny that you don't see many examples of like murder and manslaughter and what they would do to murderers because that wasn't a huge crime.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we need to go back to each other.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hey, hey, I'd go back.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: I get away with some things.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to take a time machine and just see what actually happened that night because again, every single thing we read and saw had some different element to it.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I would absolutely love to go there, watch what happened, but I'd want to be sure I can leave real.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be because I would not want to live and stay in 1100 BC or affect history.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't mind affecting it.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, no, that's fine.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't want to live in it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like that is a crummy time to live in.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, you can't do it.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: You barely have clothes.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, when you go back in time, you first of all have to be like, okay, I'm giving up these certain things that I'm used to, certain like uh materialistic things, comfort, heat.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: And to be a harem and then But okay, harem positives.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you have like They drank a lot.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Did you drink a lot, you sweat, party a lot, you party a lot, you hang out with the pharaoh, and you exert like your will on the.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really visualizing this like the Playboy mansion.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is, you know, and I mean, well, again, I'd rather be in a harem than in the Playboy mansion.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the harems were either other like princesses of royalty or they were pulled in to be a harem because they were so beautiful.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be us, obviously.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we would be the harems.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you just hang out all day.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I'd probably be the dirty kid outside on their wall begging for food with my scrappy dog.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me, I cannot breathe.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're fine.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: The last bit we really need to talk about is the mummy Man E.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Which we already revealed, so we know we they found tubware.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Pantaware.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Pantyware.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: Pantyware.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so Man E was kind of this mystery mummy they had for a bit, and they they didn't dubbed him Man E.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they dubbed him Man E because they didn't know exactly who he was.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: They had theories it was Pantaware.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Lo and behold, they did their DNA tests and their studies on him.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: This also wasn't until like 2011, by the way.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this was pretty recent.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: And again, as Elizabeth had mentioned, he was also named the screaming mummy because he had that horrific face and his lungs were his chest was expanded, and he was also wrapped in goat skin, which is a impure.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a dirty thing to put, like putting a mummy and mummifying them and and oh sorry, I'm getting crazy here, flopping things around.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I got excited.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: The goat skin was uh kind of like again, all about the afterlife.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: It made them impure and dirty, and it's kind of like throwing like a dirty toothbrush into someone's coffin, right?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's exactly what I was gonna say.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think I actually stole that from you earlier.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: You made that reference.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't say a dirty toothbrush into someone's coffee.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I made it up.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I thought that was really cool.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the biggest thing in my mind, okay, they called him Man E.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to A B C and B D?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: A B C D?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Who are these mommies?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, maybe it was Ramses the first, the second.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: But don't they know those mummies?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they have there.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: You tell me.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been to Thebes, I've been to Cairo.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but but yes, okay, so in Cairo at least, the way that they described it to me, these uh, you know, five Egyptian pound people that took you around on camels, the way they described history to me there was that each pyramid is dedicated to one king or queen.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the large pyramids are the kings and the small pyramids are the queens, but there was no like shared burial space or shared tomb.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what we found out when we were looking at these documentaries is literally all the Ramsey's kings, pharaohs, were shoved into one like secret tomb.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like they had a secret tomb so that there would be no tomb robbers, and there was a place where it was Ramses the first and Ramses the Great, who was also Ramses II, and Ramses the Third, and then Man E.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Man E.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, a few others who were just like shoved, all their sarcophagus were just kind of like in disarray in this one room, which is so strange.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: Why wouldn't they at least line them up if they're that organized?
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're not even organized.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the Cairo Museum, just throw them all around, disorganized.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is, but I mean, you know, it everything you read about Egyptian history, it's all of this ceremony and this diligence about specific things, you know, and how things are buried and where people are put and what means what and what things you have around you when you die.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was just kind of ironic that in this documentary, like, yeah, they found this secret tomb and there's all these sarcophagus scattered around, and here they are.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: So fascinating.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but Man E was among them.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's such an exciting find, though, to confirm A, that's him, like all of this stuff, knowing like this is really a homicide of the past, and like confirming that Ramses III was for sure cut by cut in the throat and it was a murder, and know it finding his son, finding the not just his son, but his son who murdered his dad.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, putting all of this together.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Really quick, too.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, why would you put your murderous son in a tomb with you?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: If I was murdered by my future child, but why would you have him next to you?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, oh my god, burn that kid, throw him in the Nile.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: I never want to see him again.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just funny, and not that you're alive when you have these orders, but you know, if it were me, I'd be like, here is your disgraced burial, or here's your like thing that you're gonna be uh carved up and thrown in.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: It wouldn't be this very ceremonious thing of where you're buried next to me.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: That seems like torture.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's more torture just being buried next to the person.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's almost as torturous as you being, say, a researcher your whole life.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, say from the 1930s to the 1980s or 90s, believing in like a certain type of Egyptology, a certain history, and then finding out in 2011 that all of your history's wrong.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or even like that first documentary watched, which was a pretty recent documentary still, like I'm not like that historian.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because she was so common, like, there's the snake bite.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then it'd be like, Do you see it?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then they'd be like, oh shit, I got messed up.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's one thing Megan and I kept talking about when we were looking at all these conflicting theories of all the pharaohs.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, that sucks.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: That like you have a PhD in this subject and you got it all so wrong.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: Not that we're experts, hello.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: We are absolutely the number one source that you've got to do.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: We are the number one source.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: But again, to spend your whole life at Cambridge and you know, different uh museums as the curator.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's your life's work.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: And your that's your life's work is saying, like, this is how this pharaoh died, and I know this because of this evidence.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe when you're 95, they come out with new evidence.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, actually, we have DNA testing now, like actually we have C scans.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's wrong.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: I would feel like a fraud.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would probably give myself hyperpoison.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it also like gets me excited though of what else is gonna come.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is that's what's we're in the very end of 2019 right now.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, who's to say in another?
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: New decade coming up, Mino.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: We are, I know, how Christmas is next week.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh goodness.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Goodness.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: We've done all of our Christmas shopping.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Elizabeth, last thing we have to talk about.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: We said we were gonna do this in our last episode a timeline of everything we've talked about thus far.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: So occasionally, uh from time to time, we're gonna have a segment that's just timeline check, and uh, that's gonna be of all the episodes we've talked about, how do they fit in order?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know about everyone out there, but for me personally in history, like I love learning about history, but I my mind tends to like compartmentalize it.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's during this one specific time and place in history, and I never think about it in terms of the grander whole.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to make sure to pause during this episode to say, okay, of all the executions we covered so far, how do these all fall in line?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where were they?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: What time?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what time were they at?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: So our oldest is here, Egypt, 1155 BC.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Here, Thebes, Egypt, 1155 BC.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: The second oldest would have been Richard Roos.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget, our best friend who was boiled alive.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: No Richard.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Really proud of him for going through that.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that was 1531.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: That was King Henry VIII in England, 1530.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: The first of many tutor executions that we're gonna have.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Next up, our second episode, we talked about the Salem witch trials.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: That was, of course, Salem, Massachusetts, USA in 1636.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: 1592.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Next up, we had William Kidd of 1701, shortly after.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, that was like he was there in New England.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's funny to think about is the overlap.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: He got arrested in Boston, which is right outside of Salem, only like a few years ago.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: He could have met any of these women.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: He could have been a witch.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they made that.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm excited.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is where things intertwine theory.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's actually a witch, and they missed out in that window of time to execute him for that, so then they got him as a pirate.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: He would be Warlock turned pirate.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Warlock turned pirate.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hanged 1701.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Look it up.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: Arrested in US, but hanged in England.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because he was of English descent.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: English descent.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, next up we had our lovely Miss Marie Antoinette.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: Our very first episode that had very poor sound quality because it was before the Iron Maiden started.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to that and sticking with us until now.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've learned a lot since episode one.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: We I've learned about gain on the microphone.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry, gain.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Gain.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned about um not having a glass table to talk on top of.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: The wine is still present.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't talked about our liquor in this one.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about we're drinking wine.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, we always have wine.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Assume we always have wine.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have this is a mixture of Slizzard.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you call it?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Slizzard.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Slizzard.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we also learned don't don't cook with green chilies.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've come a long way.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: We've come a long way.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh occasionally have Russian hosts.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Russian hosts, which leads us to our most current execution was the Romanovs who were killed in 1918.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they are the most recent execution.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we've been in his all over the world.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot more to come.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think really, like when we first started talking about doing this podcast, we're like, oh, but is there really gonna be enough episodes?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we we've started making lists, and we have like years of content for you.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: So stick with us.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a lot to go through, and of course, suggestions.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um please.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Always open.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: And as new findings come out, you know, say they do new mummy scans in a few years, and we'll t we'll have some follow-ups and tell you some more history on the the current stories.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, until I have any any last words, Elizabeth?
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: Wait.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did we just get a sign off?
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say we still don't have a sign off, but what?
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of like what you did.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually just asking if you had any last words, but um I don't.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: Should we just now we do the accent