Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SERIAL KILLER DOCTOR? Dr. William Husel prescribes lethal doses of fentanyl, killing over 25 patients. Are there more?

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SERIAL KILLER DOCTOR? Dr. William Husel prescribes lethal doses of fentanyl, killing over 25 patients. Are there more? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: A doctor allegedly kills twenty five patients by deliberately prescribing
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: lethal doses of opioids. It's just too much for me
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: to take in. I've never in all my years of
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: me going back and forth to doctors and taking the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: twins and my mom and my dad seeing a nurse
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: challenge the doctor's decision. Wow. What about the twenty five
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: dead people crime stories with Nancy Grace. Doctor William Husel
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: is accused in three separate lawsuits of ordering lethal doses
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: of fentanyl for twenty seven patients who were in intensive
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: care or near death. Husel and his attorneys have declined
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: to comment, and no one answered the door at Hustl's
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: home after we stopped by for a second time this week.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: The hospital fired him. In his place, twenty caregivers, including
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: nurses and pharmacists on leave. Supporters of the nurses have
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: said some were following doctor's orders, but that's not good enough,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: according to Lisa Emrick, with the steelenge a doctor's order
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: if they think it's wrong, we will use the word
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: clarify when if wrong, I don't know what wrong means.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: The nurse is required to give critical analysis to the
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: order Okay, so now are we actually blaming the nurse? Wow?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Talk about using a nurse's escape, but you forget about that.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: What about the twenty five dead people? I'm Nancy Grace.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: A medical doctor is responsible for twenty five deaths. All
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Star panel with me right now, Savannah lawyer Mark Tate.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: You can find him at Tate Lawgroup dot com. Bruce
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Jo's an owner ESP Investigations Master Sergeant, Region one Crime
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: sing Commander Chicago Metro. That's not a walk in the park.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining me from Manhattan, Karen Stark, Special
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: guest Hilly Nelson from ABC six Fox twenty eight Columbus.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: But to you, renowned chief medical Examiner, doctor William Moroney,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Bay County, Michigan, who actually created a new portable treatment center.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It's like a giant RV. He created to travel to
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: combat fentnel and opioid overdose. How can you know after
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: the first patient kills over dead? Why do they have
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to be twenty four more? Doctor Moroney? Don't you people
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: take it the hippocratic oath we do when some of
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: us take it very serious. The problem is that there's
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: a failure in the system that did not identify this
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: physician with a rogue attitude. The failure in the system
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: is he should have been checked by nurses and farm
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, doctor Maroney. Doctor Maroney, you
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: know what you know how I feel about you and
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: your whole family. I usually respect every single thing you say.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: But I got twenty five dead bodies, twenty five funerals
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: with families standing around a coffin being lowered into the dirt.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And did you actually just say there was a failure
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: in the system. Did you actually describe this doctor as
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: a rogue That is a murderer, not a rogue. He's
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: a murderer because they redefined the amount of sentinel anything
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: over fifty milligrams up to like two thousand, and this
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: should have been checked by the medical Examiner's office. You
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: have fifty If you have twenty five deaths, you have
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: twenty five death certificates. And I'll bet that when these
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: people died in Columbus, originally they were all marked as
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: natural and in order to come back and prosecute this doctor,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: those death certificates have to absolutely have been gone backed
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and changed to homicide. Okay, you know what doctor Moroney.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I know you're the MD and I'm just a JD.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: But when twenty five people die of opioid overdose, how
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: can an overdose be natural cause of death? Because they
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: list the disease to prosecute him, they have to go
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: back and change these death certificates. Why would anybody even
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: say it wasn't natural death? Somebody dive an overdose, heart
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: attack or stroke COPD. That was what they said originally,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and all this fentinel was hidden. It was hidden. Well,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but doesn't fentel show up in the in
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: your blood workups and the medical you know, you know
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: what I need? I need Haley Nelson with me ABC six,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Fox twenty eight Columbus. But Helly, take a listen to
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: this our friends at NBC four is Dan Pearlman even
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: three weeks and they were treating him with kid gloves. Listen.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It was January fourteenth the accusations came to light. Mount
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Carmel telling us doctor Husel ordered excessive doses of pain
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: medicine for at least twenty seven patients, a number later
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: adjusted to at least thirty four patients, many of whom
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: the hospital says died As a result, Mount Carmel is investigating,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Law enforcement is investigating, but still not a word publicly
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: from the doctor at the center of this scandal. We've
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: stopped by his Dublin home several times, including today. No
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: one answers the door. So I turned to David Stroyer,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: an attorney, Where is doctor hughesl Do you know? Well,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, okay, nobody knows, but we know
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: where all his patients are dead. That was our friend
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: at NBC four earlier, w b NS ten TV Columbus
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: been at her barrel, you know, to Haley Nelson, thank
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: you for taking time to be with us thirty four patients.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I thought they were just the twenty five dead. Where
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: did the thirty four number figure come from? Elliot? So,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the hospital started identifying patients in twenty nineteen, and they've
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: also identified up to five patients that they actually think
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: could have survived. But we found out when the county prosecutor,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: when investigators were looking into this case, they decided to
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: go forward with twenty five of these mortal chargers based
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: on the dosages, based on the information that they could find,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you know, to Mark Tay, lawyer joining me out of Savannah,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: high profile lawyer at Tate Lawgroup dot com Mark Tay.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Very often. I don't think I ever did this, but
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: very often prosecutors, in order to make a successful case,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: will throw out charges they think are too weak to prove.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I prefer to give everything to a jury. If they
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: want to throw out some, that's their decision. Or maybe
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: they held out some cases because they thought over time
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: they could develop them into better prosecutions, so they went
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: with twenty five. Have you ever seen prosecutors, or even
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: in civil law, where you paired down your charges to
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: make a more successful case at trial. Well, that's true, Nancy.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I agree. However, I think it is if a prosecutor
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: brings a case for which there is insufficient evidence to
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: get a conviction, and they have other cases against the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: same defendant where there is fantastic evidence where clearly you
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: will get a conviction. I think it's completely acceptable, as
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: it is in civil cases, and I would love to
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: have a civil case for all of these poor families
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: who lost their loved ones. In a civil case, you
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: want to be as specific as possible because juries, as
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you well know, are extremely rigorously testing the value of
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: your evidence. And if it's not clear to them even
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: in a civil case. But you know in a criminal case,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: it's got to be beyond a reasonable doubt in double cases,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: but I promise you the juries don't really know the difference,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: and they hold civil cases to a very nearly same standard.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: And so we on the civil side prefer to have
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: a case that is extremely specific, that is well put
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: together and can absolutely pierce the heart of your pleading. Well,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: you know, when you've got thirty four alleged victims and
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: only twenty five are named in a criminal indictment, I
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: wonder how that makes the other nine alleged victims feel.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Take a lesson to Franklin County Prosecutor. Ron I was
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: contacted by a lawyer representing Mount Carmel Hospital at that time.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: He indicated a need to meet that same day, a
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: need to disclose troubling information they had discovered regarding a
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: doctor who later was identified as William Hussell, who had
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: been administering doses of Fenton all at a level that
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: they internally believed were inappropriate and not for a legitimate
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: medical purpose, and which they also believed were designed to
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: hasten the death of the patients that were being treated
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. On December seventh, eighteen, the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: homicide cold case received information indicating numerous patients had died
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: while being treated by doctor William Scott Huesel during the
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: course of his employment at Mount Carmel Health. Detectives began
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: investigating the circumstances surrounding the death of at least thirty
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: five patients, and this has been the primary driver of
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the cold case homicide unit for the past seven months.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Detectives reviewed approximately thirty thousand pages of documents, consulted with
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: medical professionals, and conducted numerous interviews with witnesses and family
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: members of the deceased. A significant challenge unique to this
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: investigation is that detectives needed to familiarize themselves with medical records, terminologies, practices,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and procedures in order to understand the difference between treatment
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: and criminal activity. What you were just hearing the Columbus,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Ohio Chief of Police, That was Thomas Quinlan. He said,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: thirty five patient death. So it's not twenty four, it's
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: not thirty four, it's thirty five. That's that we know of.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I wonder where this guy practice medicine before he was here.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Whoe thirty five patient deaths. Maybe I don't understand how
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: things work at a medical office. To doctor William Moroney,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: chief Medical Examiner, Bay County, Michigan. And he even created
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a new portable RV opioid treatment center on his own.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: You can read his book America Narcan on Amazon. You know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: doctor William Moroney, not one nurse, not one physician assistant.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Nobody noticed what about all those people? Shouldn't they be
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: underscrutiny as well? There's a tremendous amount of humorous and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: arrogance that comes with this kind of activity from a physician,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: and it intimidates other people. He comes in from Cleveland Clinic,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: which is probably one of the five top treatment centers
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: in America. But his fundamental flaw in his thinking is
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: in intensive care. Everybody usually has trained in internal medicine,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: and his background was in anesthesia, so he did not
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: understand the chronic disease and that some of these people
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: may have recovered. Plus, the doses he was using were insane,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: five hundred to two thousand micrograms of fentanyl. Nobody uses
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: those kind of doses. And then to make the decision
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: that he was doing comfort care, it says comfort care.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Comfort care is what's acknowledged for hospice patients when they
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: have no alternative and they're suffering in pain, and you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: give them a dose that the primary disease may be
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the cause of their demise, and that's comfort care. Fentanyl
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: was the cause of their demise. The inappropriate use, the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: inappropriate dosage, and his training. You cannot excuse the hospital
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: for not checking out his background. And this is just
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: such a failure, a major failure. And I love Columbus.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I'm in Columbus every year. I go down there and
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: teach at the medical college. I eat at the restaurants.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: It's a wonderful place. But this person came in like
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the devil. You know what, doctor Moroney. Again, don't you
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: know how much I respect you and I'm happy to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: hear about your eating habits when you are in Columbus
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: and the restaurants you go to. But this guy gave
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: fednel in crazy amounts without any consent. The people probably
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: didn't even know that they were getting it. I mean,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the reality is the lawyer who represented top Mom Casey Anthony, said,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the charges are baffling, and what do you make of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the claim that this was comfort care for dying patients,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: doctor Moroney. None of these patients were acknowledged or represented
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: as hospice patients. He crossed interdisciplinary boundaries by using hospice
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: rules for comfort care in normal ICEU conditions. That's unforgivable.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Thirty five patient deaths related to this doctor, this evil doctor,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: doctor William Hughesel, just forty four years old, but somehow
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: in the indictment only twenty five deaths were represented. Listen
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to the Chief of Police, Thomas Quinlan. The investigators appreciate
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the cooperation of the family members and credit their assistance
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: with leading to today's indictment. The investigation revealed probable cause
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: linking twenty five deaths that were a direct result of
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: a noun therapeutic dosis of drugs, including fetanol, that doctor
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: William Scott Usel ordered to be administered in excess of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: medical standards. I want to also credit the cooperation received
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: by the medical pharmacy and nursing boards that without their
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: key guidance to investigators, the outcome would be extremely difficult.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: It is our sincere hope the families of these victims
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: will find solace by the State of Ohio holding doctor
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Eusel accountable for his devious conduct to Hanley Nelson, joining
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: US ABC six, Fox twenty eight Columbus investigative reporter, Hanley,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I do get it. One death, yes, I can understand
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the nurses did not realize what Husel was doing. But
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: after that, we have thirty four more deaths related to
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: his prescribing finnel until the people were dead, Hally, how
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: come nobody, no nursing staff, no overseer, no, no, anybody
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: did anything, Hally. And that's the big question. Why didn't
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: that happen? And since we've seen massive fallout at the hospital,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Nancy the CEO have stepped down. Pharmacists and nurses are
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: facing possible discipline. They said, there just really weren't any
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: safeguards in place. There weren't reviews in place after the
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: deaths of these people. But again, Haley, I get it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: After the first death and maybe that's when it came
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: to light, But then there were two, then three, then
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: thirty five. What were they doing with their thumbs up
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: their rear ends for thirty four deaths? And that's been
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: what the community has been reacting to in a lot
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: of ways. Folks are upset, Folks are angry, and they're
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: asking the same questions you are, how could this happen?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And the hospital haven't really had an answer for that,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and they claim now that they've changed policies, but that
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: exact question you're asking, that's their answer. Oh please, Helen Nelson,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you know that stinks to high Heaven or Brucey Johnson
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: owner ESP Investigations, no stranger to a crime. Seeing Bruce Johnson,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: twenty people were suspended. Suspension, that's nothing. They can now
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: go out and get another job, or they even go
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: back to their old job. Suspended doesn't mean fired, and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to hey, we're getting fired. If they had anything to
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: do with this, if they knew about it, they had
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: a duty to act, they should be prosecuted. To Bruce Johnson,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: they can't hide behind their nurses uniforms, and the CEO
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: can't hide behind a fancy suit. Oh no, I don't
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: care if he's stepped down. They all need to face
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: criminal Prosecu's correct, and the good news is in this
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: case there's gonna be plenty of evidence to go through
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: and and track this h if you obviously the doctor
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: prescribes it, but each nurse has that responsibility to question
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the prescription. So I mean, you look through the cases.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: One that popped up was a sixty three year old
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: woman that was just not feeling well and he ends
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: up prescribing a thousand micrograms. Why wouldn't the nurse question,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you know, an easy case like that, that's just a
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: slam duncan. But all these nurses, when the doctor prescribes
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the descript the nurse has to go and get it.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: So where they're going, each each floor for the intensive
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: care and the emergency has a pharmasell, and the pharmasell
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: has control access and sometimes it even has a password.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: So the question of who went in and out to
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: get to prescribe medication isn't going to be an issue.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: They should have that. Plus there there possibly could be
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: cameras um in or near that cell. So and from
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: what I'm understanding, the nurses aren't denying it, So none
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: of that is really going to be um question. They're
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: they're admitting there that they're getting this this doc. The
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: question is why are they agreeing to this and why
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: aren't they questioning him? And this goes all the way
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: up to the top, Like your one guest said, all
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the way to the CEO that that resign there has
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to be some underlying issues. You're not kidding, Bruce Johnson.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: The fish steaks at the head, and the head would
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: be the CEO time stories with Nancy Grace. We currently
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: don't have a motive other than but the facts would
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: indicate that fentanyl and the amounts shown on the chart
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that exceed five hundred micrograms hold a medical personnel we
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: have talked to at Mount Carmel, as you might suspect,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: we've talked to some expert medical witnesses we would propose
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: to utilize at a subsequent trial. We have been advised
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that amounts in excess of five hundred micrograms will cause
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: any person who's not on a breathing ventilator to see
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: breathing and to cause their death. You just heard the
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Franklin County Prosecutor n O'Brien, doctor William Moroney. You know,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: sometimes I guess you confused with lawyers because it's really
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: hard for some people to answer in a yes no.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: But you just heard the prosecutor O'Brien state that yeah,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and yet anything over five hundred micrograms would cause any
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: one not already on a ventilator to cease breathing. Is
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: that true? Absolutely, it's one hundred percent true. Kenny prescribed
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: over two thousand. He prescribed over two thousand and five
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: hundred makes you stop breathing? Karen start joining me and
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us at Karen Stark dot com. Karen,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: this isn't making the families feel any better that you've
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: got the CEO and all the nurses hiding behind their uniforms,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and the CEO behind his Brooks Brothers suit. Only the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: doctor has been charging. Yes he should be charged, but
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: how do you believe nurses, physicians, assistance, even the pharmacist
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: stood by and saw, you know, basically homicide level prescriptions
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: going through their hospital pharmacy. They're not going to code well, obviously, Nancy,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: it's horrific. And you're talking about someone who was a
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: serial killer, an undetected serial killer, somebody who was playing god.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: And what's interesting, because you hear so often how doctors
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: feel like they're God, is that these people that worked
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: underneath them, the nurse's assistance, they were also acting as though, well,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: the doctor said so, and he knows better than I do.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: So it's this whole myth that you have to give
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the doctor's power and that they know what they're doing,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and people comply, and it's gone on before. This isn't
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the first time that a doctor or a nurse has
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: been a serial killer and able to get away with
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: it because they're doing something a subterfuge and they're doing
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it non violently. In the classic sent Okay, guys, I
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: want you. I hope you're all sitting down, because this
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: is actually not doctor William Haesel's first brush with the law.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Take a listen our pens at NBC for Columbus. Records
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: from the State Medical Board show that Husel fully disclosed
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: his criminal history and promised to do better. I learned
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: my lesson and will never make those types of mistakes again,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: he wrote to the board in twenty thirteen. Husel, who
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: was a basketball star in high school, describes that time
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: as being a big fish in a small pond, but
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: when he got to college at Wheeling, Jesuit in nineteen
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: ninety four, that all changed. Husel and another student reportedly
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: committed a series of car break ins stealing stereo equipment,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: according to a presentence investigation report, After one of the
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: victims reported their names to campus security, Husel and another
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: student built a pipe bomb. The report says they initially
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: intended to detonate the pipe bomb under the vehicle of
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: one of the students. Instead, they put the bomb in
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: a trash can on campus, where it detonated just outside
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a campus building. Usel was sentenced to six months in
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a halfway house and a year of probation. What, Haley Nelson,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: ABC six, Fox twenty eight Columbus, What did I just
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: hear he did time behind bars for detonating a pipe bob? What? Yes, absolutely,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: federal churches. This all came to light after we had
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: found out about multiple of these patients in this entire situation.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety six June of nineteen ninety six,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: he was indicted by a federal grand jury in West Virginia.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: But after this he did go on, obviously to get
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: into medical school, continue on to the Cleveland clinic and
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: then to Mount Carlo. Okay, I'm having a hard time
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: taking this in, doctor William Moroney. Now you know how
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: lawyers can be. There's a reason lawyers have a bad
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: reputation if you're caught doing anything. At least where I
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: went to law school at Mercer University and NYU you
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: were out on your fanny, out out with prejudice. How
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: in the hey can a doctor get in to medical school,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: get into the Cleveland clinic and end up at this hospital?
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Thirty five people dad connected to him, and he detonated
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a pipe bomb back in ninety six. And let me
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: tell you something, Maroni, I benefit. It takes a lot
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: to get the fans off their rear ends and bring
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: a charge. They want an air tight case and they
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: can take them years to put it together, but they
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: got it on this guy. He did jail time. Help me, MARONEI, Well,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you is the foundation of medical education
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: can be just as incorrupt and competent as organized crime.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: If he's a really good looking guy and he interviews
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: for medical school, they're gonna let him in. If he's
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a salesman, he is a good handshake and a couple
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: of good grades, they're gonna let him in. Nobody looks
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: in the past, nobody digs this stuff up. And there's
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: tons of doctors like this all over and in every state.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: There are doctors that are incompetent that should not be
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: delivering fentanyl. We just it's a sad day for Columbus
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: that it was brought here. Let me understand something thing. Okay,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: doctor William Ronney, I want you to hear this. Haley
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Nelson with me ABC six Fox twenty eight Columbus, Haley.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Where did he go to medical school? And where did
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: he practice? Who did the medical board know about them
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: this charge, this conviction when they allowed him to practice medicine, Nancy,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: they did. And in a lot of cases, when he
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: was getting into medical school, as you heard in that
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: clip earlier, he wrote a letter apologizing, explaining, and that's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: how he got into that medical school, of course, which
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: was here in Ohio, Ohio University. And after getting in there,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: he was able, of course to climb the ladder continue
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: on with his career. Let me understand something. So Ohio
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: University Medical School let him in with a felony conviction.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Is that right? That's our understanding? Yeah? Yeah, okay? And
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: where did he first practice? So it was his first hospital?
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Do we know? After going to medical school, he then
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: went up to the Cleveland Clinic for a number of
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: years trained up there, and then he started working at
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Mount Carmel in twenty thirteen. And you're saying Mount Carmel
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Hospital and is that located in Mount Carmel. So it's
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: in West Columbus at least the branch he was at.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Primarily all of these patients other than one were in
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: this West Columbus as the neighborhood called Franklinton. So the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: majority of this all playing out there from twenty fourteen
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: to just twenty eighteen, So all very very recent. Mark Tate,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: lawyer joining me out of Savannah at Tait Lawgroup dot com.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Mark Tate, I can't look my doctor's in the face now.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go run a rap sheet on every
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: single one of them. The last thing I want to
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: see is some doctor who detonated a pipe bob hovering
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: over me or somebody in my family. How the hey
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: does that happen? I mean, Mark, where did you go
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to law schools? I went to the University of Georgia
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: School of Law. And I assume that they check out
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: whether you have a felony conviction, and if they don't,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: then certainly Georgia barr does. I mean that. I thought
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: when everybody with a fine tooth comb, they do. And
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: you know in this instance in state barbs, the myra
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: are in every time I made an objection in court.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: So how does this problem? He? Yes, it certainly is, Mark,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: How did this happen? I think that well, first of all,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: you know, detonating pipe bombs, getting that mental picture out
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: of your mind. Detonating pipe bombs, uh, really doesn't indicate
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: any lack of lack of medical judgment. But they should
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: have absolutely investigated that and taken into account. And we, frankly,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: at this point, do not know whether that happened. He
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: blamed it on you. We don't know whether what don't
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: know whether they investigated him in passing. We don't know
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: if they need should they run rap she should have?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely they run it on lawyers. And what are we well,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I mean we're not. We have life in death in
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: her hands. But we clearly have a higher ethical standard
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: of practice law than to practice medicine, and I think
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: this case bears that out. Okay, you know, I'm sorry
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: that I'd hurt my throat when I screamed time stories
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. But they finally got her to where
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: she could be on her own, but with help of
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: the machine. But she could be on her own, I
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: mean on her own, but with help of the machine.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: So everything seemed to be okay, you know, but they
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: want to take her up to ICEE. You what, she've
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: been there before, so I thought, everything, it's gonna be okay.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: They took her upstairs, and then I'll come this joker
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: saying that she had a joker you're talking about doctor Hunsel. Yeah,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: he said that she's brain dead and the machine is
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: she had no machine wouldn't bring her back, and uh,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: her lungs wouldn't wouldn't bring her back in and then
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I lost her. Oh, dear Lord in heaven you are
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: hearing Columbus Dispatch reporter Jim Woods. That was David Austin
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: describing his wife Bonnie. She was stabilized in the ear.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Everything was fine. They took her up to ICU and
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: suddenly out cubs doctor Husel saying that Bonnie is brain dead.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Oh my stars, oh gosh. I don't even want my
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: mind to go where it is going. Karen Starr, of course,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm imagining that happening to somebody I love.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Everything's fine, and then all of a sudden, their brain dad,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: and if you unplaying the machine, they die. But everything
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: was fine. How can the mind, a human mind even
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: comprehend that well, Nancy, I mean, that's so hard to
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: take in, just like you're saying, that's heartbreaking, and it's
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: very hard to make sense of something like that. And
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: it's another reason why you could see that this person
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: that committed this crime is a killer, not someone who's
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: performing mercy, because here's somebody who was fine and then
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden gets killed for no reason other
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: than someone had the power to be able to do that.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: And they've got to come to terms with the fact
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: that there a person to die for absolutely no reason
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: other than someone was a psycho path You know, um,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I may not be a medical doctor William Maroney, doctor Maroney,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: but I can add although it's not my forte, I
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: know it too. And two equals. Listen to this, you know,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you always think because if something else happened, because I
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: couldn't figure the doctor down stairs in the yard said
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: she was fine, just her heart was working fine, and
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: he just a very short time and she goes up
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to me, I see you and nothing just not that
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: don't make sense. When he said she was branded, what
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: did he did? He ask you something specifically? Then then
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: he said he pull the plug. He the doctor says, quote,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: can we pull the plug? Now? Take a listen to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the lawyer. They get hurt of the hospital around seven
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: thirty seven pm. Then they go through the emergency room
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: called the surgeon down. You know, take here the numa
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: thax with a chess tube had. She goes up to
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: ICU at eleven fifteen. The pharmacist signs off on the
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: fentanyl dosage. At eleven twenty three, six hundred micrograms the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: fentanyl were given along with first said. Then the notes
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: show at eleven twenty eight. Was then at eleven twenty
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: eight that the family decided to make a withdrawal of care.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: So apparently it was five minutes after the six hundred
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: he was actually the fentanyl was given to her before well,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I'm just telling you about the record show at eleven
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: twenty three eight the fentanyl was given at eleven twenty eight.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: It's noted that the family made a decision to withdrawal care.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: WHOA okay, doctor Moroni, everything's fine or hard is working?
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Quote fine? According to the doctors she sent to I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: see you in tens of care. Fifteen pharmacists signed the
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: fentnyl dosage eleven twenty three, six hundred micrograms. The fentnyl
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: pumped in to this lady, even though you and I know,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: over five hundred micrograms makes you stop breathing. And then
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: just eight minutes later, less than eight minutes later, she's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: brain dead. I mean she's brain dead almost immediately at
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: eleven twenty three when they pump her full of fentyl. Well,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: it works that quickly, doctor Moroni. Yeah. And if you
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: listen real close to what he said, they gave fentanyl
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: with versid. Versaid is a benzodiazepine, and together they're used
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: in anesthesio put people asleep for surgery and to intubate them.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: That's what was given. A deadly combination, not just fentanyl.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: This is a godless, soul sucking system that has lost
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: all of its checks and balances, from the top through
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: the pharmacists, through the computer, all the way down to
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: when the medications given there's not enough balance. We forget
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: that our power comes from God, not from a doctor's
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: scrooping and yelling in pointing orders such to Maroney, I'm
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: just so distraught to Healing Nelson, ABC six, Fox twenty eight, Columbus.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: When I hear the voice of David Austin, who can't
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: understand what went wrong, and now we know that his
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: wife was pumped so full of fentnel she died in minutes.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I think the whole hospital needs to answer whether it
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: brings down the walls around us. The truth must be obtained.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Another thing I don't understand is why they are refusing
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: to call him a serial killer. We have thirty five
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: dead people, twenty five have resulted in murdered charges. Why
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: are they not calling him a serial killer? Well, we
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: have heard our State of Ohio Attorney General actually call
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: him a serial killer publicly, but they believe because they
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: don't have the conviction yet, they're not comfortable doing that.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: And Nancy, it's interesting just recently we've gotten a glimpse
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: into perhaps what they could argue, or at least what
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: his attorneys are saying right now in a different lawsuit.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: So the doctor Husel, he just filed a lawsuit recently
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: against the hospital and other groups, and they're claiming that
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: he's being defamed, perhaps the largest defamation case in recent
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Ohio history. They say because he was trained at the
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Cleveland Clinic and has this background in anesthesiology and critical care.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: They say he was actually determining the right dosages for
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: each of these patients. They're claiming that these patients had
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: a high tolerance for these drugs and that he was
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: doing what was right. Well, if it was the right dosage,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: why did they all die of overdose? Here? Only that
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to me, So you think they're
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: they so far, the prosecutors not called serial killer because
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: there are no convictions, when obviously he is a serial killer.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: And to you, Karen Stark, do you think if it's
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: the profile of a serial killer without a doubt? Nancy,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I mean the power, it's sadistic. There is really no
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: reason for why he was doing it that has to
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: do with anything that's medical. And what a convenient way
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: to be serial killer because he doesn't have to do
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: anything that's violent. All he has to do is administer
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: the drug and get away with it. We also know
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: that he was freed on one million dollar bond, but
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: of course Heley and Elsie you only have to put
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: up a hundred thousand dollars for that with twenty five
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: counts of murder. I don't understand why he even got bond.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Why did the judge given bond That's what a lot
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: of our viewers were shocked about and asking. But they
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: said they were following their procedures, and a lot of
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: the families, of course very upset and devastated by by
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: all of this, but they said they were following the
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: procedures laid out ahead of that. So let me understand
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: in that jurisdiction, you get bond for murder, you can't
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: get a no bond for twenty five dead bodies. It
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: depends on the situation. I think two. With the timing
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: of a lot of this, we know because they're requesting
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: medical records and going over so many of these documents,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: it's certainly a long time process, and I think perhaps
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: that may have played into all of this. You know,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: to me, it makes it worse Mark Tay because they've
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: had time to realize the extent of his activity, his murders.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Now he's filed a defamation a lawsuit I guess against
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the hospital, Is that right, Hallie Nelson? Recently, yes, he
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: has filed a lot is it against the hospital, the hospital,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: their parent company, former CEO, among others. The hospital is
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Mount Carmel Hospital, the CEO, and who's the parent company's
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Trinity Health out of Michigan. So do you think Mark
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Tay that he doctor huselis file the civil lawsuit as
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: part of his defense strategy. You know, it's a ridiculous thing.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: The hospital has said nothing but the truth about him.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's a tragic failure of legal strategy to
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: let this man facing these charges swipe back at this
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: hospital nothing they've said against him. It is true. They've
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: never said that he's guilty of a crime, which is
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: libel and slander per se. They are simply stating that
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: we have confirmed if these are the levels of drugs
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: that he dosed, and the individuals who he dosed with
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: those drugs have died, and that's the truth. So it's
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: a stupid lawsuit. Whatever lawyer filed it, I guess was
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: just taking Husel's money or was trying to grab some headlines,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: maybe to boost his or her practice down the line.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: But I can't imagine any lawyer I know, and I
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: know some good lawyers, I cannot imagine anyone advising miss
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Fellow that it's a good idea to file a slander
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: liable deformation lawsuit against the place that may be able
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: to actually help you in defending yourself, because remember he
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: is the guy who prescribed the drugs. Their nurses are
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the ones who filled the prescriptions. He had to bypass
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: a drug dispensing system in order to be able to
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: get these drugs. There's so many other people to blame
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: here for what happened, and all he's done is sparked
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: their ire to come out against him, you know, with
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: all talents bared. And so if he came to me
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: and asked me to file this lawsuit, I would tell
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: him your stupid, your hubrists is causing you to think unclearly.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And just because you got your medical degree and your
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: board certified and anesthesiology which is which is a legitimate
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: pain management degree and certification, that doesn't mean you need
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: to come out swinging at them. You need to be timid,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: you need to be calm. You need to be saying,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I exercise what was my best medical judgment, and I
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: should have had more backups if I was making the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: wrong judgment. Hospitals have a policy that says nurses are
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: in fact required to go up the chain of command
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: if they question the constructions are given. And the truth
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: is that a nurse has the same exact duty to
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: you and that is to act with reasonable care towards
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: the patient. And if the doctor's doing something that you
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: knew or should have known is incorrect, to go to
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the charge nurse and to go up the chain to
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the chief position. But do you think there's any way,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: doctor Moroney, he can blame the nurses and get off. Well,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: he can say, hey, I gave the order. If she
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: didn't want to give it, she didn't have to give it.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: She could have said something, you know, but the nurse
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: has a procedure and if she clarifies that is his order.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: She has a director of nursing, she has a manager nursing. Somewhere.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Somebody called somebody and said, hey, there's something going on here,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: But it didn't happen until all these people died, and
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: it was outside of the hospital. This kind of investigation
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: could have happened inside of the hospital because a nurse
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: with some gravitas would have said, I'm not giving that order.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And at once they say that somebody has to look
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: in and see the past, and they would have seen
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: how many people are dying at the hands of a
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: fentil injection and it's going to be multiple nurses. But
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: they were working in silos and they were isolated, so
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: it's a failure of communication in this whole system. He's
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: at the top and that hubris is the perfect word.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And earlier on their pipe bomb indictment and conviction, Hailey
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Nelson told us about remember this, the twice divorced doctor
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Husel admitted that after he detonated device on campus, he
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: tried to frame another person by putting a pipe in
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: their car. So not only did he detonate a pipe bomb,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: he tried to blame somebody else, and that is who
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: the hospital had working on their patients. We wait as
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: justice unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,