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14. Finding Joy in Financial Planning: How to Help Clients Balance Wealth and Happiness with Larry Sprung · Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of our core values here is client equals family equals team.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's vitally important that if we're going to say that, if we're going to recite it, if we're going to feel it, then we have to do it also.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial advising meets the art of meaningful conversations.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ashley Kwame.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: As a certified financial behavior specialist and a passionate advocate for personal growth, I'm here to help you elevate your practice and deepen your connections with clients.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: In each episode, we dive into the intersection of psychology, therapy, and financial advising.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: You'll discover practical strategies, insightful stories, and expert interviews that will empower you to not only excel in your profession, but also thrive in your personal life.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Together, we'll explore the human side of financial planning, from understanding client emotions to mastering the nuances of effective communication.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: We'll also focus on your own growth because the best advisors are those who are continually evolving.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to transform your practice and yourself.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is Planning and Beyond.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show dedicated to helping you deepen your relationship with your clients and yourself.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ashley Kwame.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by Lawrence, also known as Larry Sprung.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Larry is a husband, a father, an entrepreneur, an award-winning advisor, author, and probably maybe my favorite part of your bio, Larry, a mental health advocate.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Larry, welcome to the show.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad that you're here.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I am excited to be here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Ashley.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for the kind introduction.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, anytime an advisor puts that they are a mental health advocate as part of like their bio, I am immediately just drawn.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just my bias, I guess.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I I love seeing that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love, I love hearing that and watching uh through at least social media.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So for those of you listening, Larry and I um have known each other for several months now and I've stalked he and his wife on social media.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy following them uh and have very much seen where you guys are mental health advocates uh in in the work that you do.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so from as a mental health professional, I appreciate uh appreciate the work that you and Denise are doing out there for for that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So today, Larry, I want to talk a little bit about the idea of joy.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I consider you kind of the joy master.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's a big title.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that should go on your like LinkedIn like profile there.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, but um, when I when I met you at at Shift and as I've gotten to know you and your work a little bit better, you talk a lot about uh the idea of joy and bringing joy into your life.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess before we get too excited and jump into that, I'd love for you to share maybe with the audience a little bit more just about who you are, the work that you do, and some of the things that you're involved in.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Give us maybe a little bit of an overview uh about yourself.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I appreciate that, Ashley.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll I'll just double dovetail off of your beautiful introduction.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, first and foremost, I'm a husband to Denise, a dad to Zach and Jeremy.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, for me, family is really everything.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that bleeds over and translated, translates into my work at Midland Financial as a wealth management firm.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: We look at our the families that we serve as an extension of our family.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we look at the people who are delivering the experience to those families, our stakeholders as family as well.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's you know rooted in everything I do.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we work with families on designing a game plan to hopefully bring more joy to their life and help them execute it over time.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're no different than uh a lot of other wealth management firms.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: We just take a different approach to it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, as you mentioned, I am a mental health advocate.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of fell into that space uh 20 plus years ago when I lost my brother-in-law to suicide, and it became extremely important to make sure that other people understood that there were people out there for them uh and that um, you know, there was help and people could uh talk about their issues, and it wasn't a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's been something that we've been passionate about ever since, and we've really enjoyed the impact that we've had over the years in that space as well.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: No doubt you guys have had a pretty uh important impact uh and in normalizing it, uh, talking about, you know, how maybe we're not okay and just normalizing that uh for others.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I commend you and Denise for the work that you're doing, that you guys are doing there.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll continue, we'll continue to do.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate that.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned this idea around joy, and I'm curious where where did this idea around bringing joy kind of come from?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have this wonderful tagline, and maybe maybe we should start about the tagline and then you can kind of walk us through like where did this idea, where did it come from?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great question.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the tagline is right above my shoulder, but it is what did you do today that brought you joy?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we came about it, you know, somewhat uh by accident and then ended up leaning into it in terms of when we were launching our podcast, The Mittland Money Mindset, uh, Denise, as our director of marketing, was like, you know, we need to have a tie-in question, a question that we ask each of our guests every show in order to kind of you know get that response to a similar question.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And really, she came up with the question, what did you do today that brought you joy?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a little bit over four years ago, almost five years ago before uh launching the podcast.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we started seeing the response to it, uh, you know, to the question from the guests we had on the show and them loving the question and sharing things that were personal to them.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then we went ahead and had some shirts drawn up or made with that phrase on it, and the number of people that were stopping me in airports and, you know, online, uh, you know, the big story that I tell in my book is I was online at in uh Disney World and a cast member broke their character and basically looked at me and said, I I ate a bag of Hershey Kisses.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked at her and I was like, Okay, great.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I looked at my wife and my kids.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I turned to the side and they were like, Hey, dummy, look at your shirt.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: She was answering the question.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized, uh, so it was a number of instances that we realized we were onto something.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then we started thinking about how we could make it bigger.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we made it the subtitle uh to the book, uh, Financial Planning Made Personal.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do today that brought you joy?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: We then subsequently created a joy journal.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then we just completely leaned into this process because as we started thinking about the business and working with families, you know, we realized that a lot of financial firms, advisory, wealth management, they focus on the numbers, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: How much money am I going to need for retirement?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: How much money am I going to need to send my kids to college?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, we realized for a long time, but it was hard to get families to have those conversations, that it really necessarily wasn't about the money.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was about the joy that they were going to get from retiring or seeing their child uh graduate college debt-free or something you know, along those lines, whatever their goals were.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we really started leaning into this concept of joy, and it's just uh taken off.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and the concept has uh really, you know, taken on a life of its own now.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: We have people responding back to us on social media, sending us emails with the joy moniker attached.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been it's been really uh an enjoyable, uh pun intended uh ride with leaning into this uh this this phrase, if you will.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can imagine so.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm just blown away that you had a Disney cast member break character to answer.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's like Disney one like no-no, like they do not break for anything.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: So claim to fame there.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, that's that's that's pretty that's pretty remarkable.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people sh shout to me getting on a plane, you know, they'll they'll walk by me, I'm on the aisle, they're walking by me, and they'll just shout out, you know, I I went for a 10-mile run today, or I'm doing this.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I have to sometimes take a step back and realize why they're telling me this, because I don't realize all the time that I'm wearing the shirt.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm getting like a visual of you, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like as people are yelling like these random, random things and and and it taking you a second to kind of catch up there.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I think that that's pretty remarkable, just having that response, uh, you know, that public response out there.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned how and kind of incorporating this uh more into the practice and like with clients and you know, helping them to really focus more on not just the numbers aspect, but the joyful parts that wealth, money, our finances really can bring to us.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just wondering from you know, an implementation kind of standpoint, not that I'm asking to say, you know, share like secrets here or what your secret sauce is, but you know, is this a great concept of helping clients to focus more on on the joyful parts of their life?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I'm just wondering, like, how do you guys go about like doing that?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like practically, do you um have intentional conversations?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it like a one-off meeting?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it um just tied in organically?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's kind of the structure there uh for incorporating, you know, this beautiful tagline into your client work?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it it's a it's a almost all of the above, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because new families that we're meeting today don't know us any differently.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And families that we've worked with for many, many years, you know, this may be new to them, right?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So with the families that we've served for a number of years, where we're now just changing the verbiage and the conversations that we're having more around this joy component than than the dollar component.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then the new families that we're, you know, we're meeting with, you know, it's it's really from the outset that we're starting with this concept of joy.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: From our initial presentation or conversation with the family, joy is implemented and incorporated throughout the entire uh slide deck in a way that we're we're talking to them in a way and about topics that they've spoken about before, but not really in the way and the method and the means that we're having those conversations.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we're finding that people are a little bit more open.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they're having a little bit more in-depth conversations because it's not just about a dollar amount, it's really diving a bit deeper into what's important to them and what and how they derive and find joy.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also leading to conversations, whether they're new families or existing families, with the next generation, because I think that the next generation and the generation after that, they are less concerned.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this has been written about and talked about probably for a long time, but I find it to be true.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're less concerned with the dollars and cents and more concerned with what is what are those dollars and cents going to do for me, or how is it going to help me live a more fulfilled life?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And as a result, that's leading to more introductions, referrals, and and retention of of those family assets over time.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you're spot on.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've noticed similar patterns.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Younger generations are more interested in, I guess, the joyful parts, if you want to call them that, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: What your money can do for you.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: What are the things that bring you joy, the experiences, uh not just working a nine to five until you're 65 and then what?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe maybe you get to kind of live life there.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that that's really interesting though, that from a uh family kind of generation standpoint that this is starting to kind of transcend and having other conversations with other generations and other other family members there.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious, have there been any hurdles, um, any resistance, um, just client end, client side of things as far as being willing to go there and kind of talk about more explicitly what does bring you joy?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Have there have there been any hurdles there that you've seen or experienced?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, we did have uh one uh specific situation with uh a newer family that we work with.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um they were introduced to us uh from an existing family that we worked with.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, mom had uh, you know, she was divorced and has two kids, uh daughter and son.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, the daughter uh earlier this year uh was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of cancer and ended up passing away at the age of 40 within a couple of months.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we helped her right away.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: There were some pressing issues that needed to be taken care of with regard to the mother handling the daughter's finances, that we helped her through that before actually going through like that introductory meeting and what we're all about, et cetera, because this was really important, top priority.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we'd helped her through that process.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then we got to a point where she said, I want to really meet with you and talk about my money and see how you might be able to assist me.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we sat down and our presentation is designed around this, you know, joy factor, if you will.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you could tell, and I I'm very cognizant of when we're talking to people and seeing their reactions, and you could tell that she was a little uncomfortable.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I took a pause and I said, listen, I said, you know, what you've experienced over the last three to six months, you know, no parent should.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's difficult for you to start talking about how you might find joy right here in this moment, just let me know right now, and we'll stop there and we'll we'll talk to you more generically about how we do things, what we do, and kind of move past that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she started crying right then and there.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, you know, I just can't even right now fathom or picture a joyful environment for me right now, being what I've been through.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, that's completely understandable.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: We actually had a conversation right then and there to see if she was getting any kind of bereavement help or advice.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it turned out she had been pushing it aside, and she was going to, at the end of our meeting, to go schedule her first appointment to start that process.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we ended up pivoting in that moment.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think we as advisors have a responsibility to understand and know when we might be pushing the envelope with a family and know that, you know, it's not about us, it's about them.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this time it wasn't right.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we basically talked to her about it.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: We started putting the plan together based upon kind of numbers and dollars and cents.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we reserved the right with her when she was up to it and had the ability to kind of revisit the the joy part of the process.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we told her, you know, that could be that's very different for you know everybody, right?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody goes through that process and you know, maybe months and maybe years, but we're here for her.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: We'll walk her through the process as best we can now, and then we'll revisit the joy part of the conversation at a later date, understanding where she's at today.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that client example for for a few reasons.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it one highlights that while there are a lot of things that our money can do to bring us joy, and a lot of things that as advisors or practitioners, you can do to guide your clients to seeing and experiencing that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: There is this thing called life, and life happens, and life does not always bring us joyful moments.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the responsibility piece, as you so very well put on that in that place, is to respond to those sensitive moments with compassion and making it more about the client and what they need, as opposed to forcing them into this box or process of how it typically should go or how we should be doing it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I would imagine from just a rapport from a trust like place, I would imagine she left that conversation feeling very seen by you and feeling an immense amount of just, you know, trust there, right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And giving her that permission to be able to do that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, like I asked you like from a hurdle standpoint, but I don't know if that's a hurdle, Larry.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think like that's just an act of just you know, advisory brilliance, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to attune to your clients.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in the moment, it felt very much like a big hurdle because it was like, oh my gosh, you know, and and and the funny thing was, or not funny, but uh I uh going into that meeting, I was like, I was, you know, kind of tossing around the idea of do we go down the normal road of how we have these conversations or knowing what we know, do we kind of punt on that completely?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, I I felt like she deserved to go through it like we would normally do and then see where it goes and then you know pivot if needed.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, that's really been the only hurdle that we've seen.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I think the other hurdle, which I I think most advisors run into these hurdles, even on the traditional side of things, you know, when you're talking with families and you're asking them about their goals or you know, what or how much money do they foresee needing for a specific thing, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, especially if the further off it is, it's very difficult for them to think about that and understand that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think you have similar hurdles from a joy environment in terms of they haven't thought about it, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it may take an extra meeting to give them some time to think about it.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in some cases, it's a little bit easier because instead of thinking about what they want to do for the rest of their life or something like that, it could be as simple as, you know, spending time with my family brings me joy, or making sure that my grandkids have an education debt-free.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a little bit more, you know, general, and sometimes it's easier, and sometimes it's not for them to come up with those ideas around it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just a different, it's a way of reframing things, I think.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could see that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I could see that.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting here, and I know that you know this, but uh naturally my brain is going to couples.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I'm sitting here like kind of wondering, like, ooh, I wonder how this works with couples where for one they feel joy when they are saving more, putting things away, maybe for younger couples, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the other is, you know, pushing kind of that spend spend boundary of I experience joy through spending and experiences, right?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And trips.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just curious, like from a couple's like standpoint, do you guys typically run into uh run into that where couples have kind of differing views um around what brings them, what brings them joy and how like how do you walk through that with them?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I mean I think that happens often where they're you know, I think as as often as you have couples on the same side at the table in terms of their views and their visions on what brings them joy, you have you have similar, you know, equally number of people that have differing views.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's no different when you have somebody that says, you know, they want to spend 90% of their earnings for joy, and you have somebody else who says they want to save 30%, right?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you have that dichotomy the same way you would work with that uh couple in terms of having those conversations of understanding, you know, the long term, the short term, and everywhere in between.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, listen, I share my own personal experience in terms Of, you know, my mom passed away at the age of 47, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if my dad, who happens to be a little bit more frugal, saver, my mom was a little bit more of a spender, probably, you know, if he had, you know, put every single dime into retirement, right?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: That retirement nest egg would be there, but there wouldn't necessarily be a need for it because my mom unfortunately didn't have the opportunity to make it there.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but at the same time, you can't spend everything uh on joy today and think that you're not going to need it in retirement because then he would have nothing today.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's similar to that in terms of figuring out a balance between how much you need to save to accomplish the joy you want to, you know, you want to see in your life later on.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: But also there is an importance which we talk about very often.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of advisors talk about budgets, and you know, families feel they're very constrictive and constraining because, you know, their view is the advisor wants them to have this budget, so they save as much as they possibly can, even if it's at the risk of, you know, uh, you know, eliminating some of the joy from their life today.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we kind of take the different approach, whereas we have to figure out a balance between putting that money away for retirement and at the same time experiencing joy today, because we think that that is, you know, equally important.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to find that middle ground.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that means that the person who's the saver doesn't necessarily get exactly what they want.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: The person who's the spender may not get exactly what they want.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we work with them to figure out kind of a meeting of the minds as to what's a good situation for them, and then designing a budget around that that incorporates both the savings and the joy today, aka the spending perhaps, uh, so they get uh, you know, both of them get uh those needs that they have satisfied during the year, short term and and longer term as well.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is quite the balancing act there, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Serving and making sure that both both partners feel heard, seen, valued, understood, and that, you know, the things that they want, uh that they're also to some degree being met.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it is quite the balancing juggling act that is uh you know sometimes not as easy to do and implement uh as it is to say, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: As as you know.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know how this tagline has transformed, uh, shifted, reframed your own mindset.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would imagine to some degree, like it's had an impact on just you personally uh and how you think about uh maybe your day-to-day or your own spending.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Would you mind just sharing maybe a little bit about how this tagline, what did you do today that brings you joy, how has that shaped just your own mentality, your own thinking, Larry?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think overall it's been a huge positive uh because it also you know, one, it's created an environment where when I'm in the office and working and we're working with families, many of the conversations and many of the discussions are surrounding this concept of joy.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're spending a lot of time talking about joy, it just makes you feel more joyful, right?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Makes you feel better.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've also incorporated some of the concepts that we, uh, if not all, that are in the joy journal, you know, when I start my day, instead of writing a few things that I'm grateful for, I've uh created it uh in a way that I'm writing a few things that I am joyful for.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as things come up in uh, you know, our life from a from a spending perspective versus savings, you know, we we put it through that lens, you know, hey, is this better suited or used for something that's gonna bring us joy today?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, or is it better suited for something later on?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and making sure that in my own life that I have that uh similar balance right uh in place because I am a big proponent of I don't want to be the guy uh or the firm that's you know talking with folks, educating them to do one thing, and I am doing something totally different.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want there to be alignment between what and how we're sharing things with families and what we're doing here, not just myself, but other other stakeholders as well.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I commend you for that awareness and pursuit of congruence there, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: What we're having and working on with clients.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are we also modeling uh that and are we also you know embodying that personally too?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I would imagine like that becomes pretty evident and shown in not only, as you said, how you feel, but also the work that you do with clients and that team culture, um, team culture as well.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I am curious if Denise were sitting here right now on this call, I was tempted to send her an invite to see if she'd come on.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: What would what would Denise say as far as how your mindset and things have things have changed uh from four years ago when you guys first started adopting this tagline?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: What would she say the differences?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think she'd say kind of similarly to what I just said, because in in our relationship, kind of like what uh what you've explained before between the couples, uh, I'm more of the saver and she's more of the spender enjoy uh you know life.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we we've you know, we've kind of, you know, years ago we butted heads probably more so than we do now on that, because we've come to a deep appreciation that uh she's not always right and I'm not always right.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's usually a happy medium.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: So when we look at certain things and and kind of go through those decision-making processes, I think my outlook on that has changed.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think it's partially, you know, definitely that tagline, if you want to call it that, what did you do today that brought you joy definitely impacted it.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also reinforced kind of what I've experienced through my life with losing my mom at the age of 47, uh, losing my brother-in-law at the age of, you know, 27, and seeing that, and now having kids at 18 and 21, you know, understanding that, you know, there's going to come a time where they're not going to want to hang out maybe with mom and dad.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: They still do, thankfully.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes our process is where years ago I might have been like, you know what, maybe we'll skip over that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, they want to hang out with us because they're not at the house anymore.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's do it and let's go and you know, it it incorporate it in.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I think it comes down to making sure that you're budgeting and you have a budget that allows you to take advantage of the savings and you're doing that savings and have that budget also allow you to take advantage of those other opportunities.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there's definitely been a shift over the last several years.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I commend you, I commend you guys for taking advantage of any time your kids, adult kids want to hang out with with you.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm I'm a little bit further behind you, but I know the time is coming when I will not be cool uh and it will not be fun to hang out with with with mom uh or mom and dad.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're there yet, thankfully.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean my younger son, my 18-year-old came home this weekend.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: We spent the day in the city, went to the Ranger game uh this past weekend.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: So uh my my older son, we're gonna see all er all the boys uh this coming weekend.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we get to see him quite a bit, but we also uh Denise and I both make the time and the effort to make sure that we can get to places that we can spend the time with them too, which is you know vitally important.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and you know, I think one of the things I'm kind of hearing right now is just how intentional um both you and Denise are, um, but just how intentional, and it sounds like also in your firm and in your work, just intentional around uh, you know, not just incorporating joy and making sure that that is where our focus is, but are we living a meaningful life uh in a way that aligns with maybe our values or the things that do bring us joy and and being intentional?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I don't know if you would agree with this, but I find that if we are intentional, usually it does bring about more joyful moments, uh at least more consistently.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I tell a story when I first launched the firm when my first son was born.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I used to take off like every Friday.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I started taking off Fridays in June.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then as the boys got older, I started June and July, and then June, July, and August.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we would spend every Friday together as a family doing something.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there are still uh families that we work with today that sometimes will call the office on a Friday in the summer, and uh they speak with somebody else who's in the office, and they're like, oh, well, Larry's here if you want to talk to them.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh, isn't he off on Fridays in the summer?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: They still think that uh I'm there.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I agree with you.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to be intentional.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you know, one of our core values here is client equals family equals team.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's vitally important that if we're going to say that, if we're going to recite it, if we're gonna feel it, then we have to do it also.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a great, such a great quote.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Such a great quote there.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Larry, this has been such a wonderful conversation.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to take a few, few moments um to ask one of the questions that I typically typically end with.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I have an inkling as to maybe what your answer is, but I'm I'm kind of maybe hoping maybe you surprise me here.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um but usually at the end of our time, the end of our time together, um, I ask the question of if you were to look back in the rear view mirror for just a second and go back to your younger professional self.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So younger Larry, first starting out maybe in the industry, uh, what are maybe two pieces of advice, two tips that you would give and offer to your younger self?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so two to the two, and I'm glad you asked me for two, because I was gonna give two anyway, uh, because I I it came up, you know, hit me right away.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: One is I would have gone and been a RIA much sooner.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would have not gone the broker dealer route uh and studied for my seven.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that RIA is the way of the future.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: It allows us to serve families in the way we want to serve them.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it also allows us to uh create an environment through our marketing efforts that are um, you know, a little bit less boundful than uh if we were brokers.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think being an RIA is hugely beneficial, number one.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and number two, I I think the other second thing would have been I would have written my book earlier.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, unfortunately, time kind of got out of the way, and uh it would have been nice.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I think that if I would have written it earlier or started the podcast earlier, I don't know that I would have had the same line that I have today.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm also grateful for the fact that I did it when I did it, and uh we created this uh, you know, line, what did you do today that brought you joy that's been so impactful?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited to see how that impact continues in the years to come.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Those are not the answers that I thought you were gonna say.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I am I am glad that you surprised me.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Although, maybe if I kind of like tweet, I I thought you might say something about uh like intentionality or seeking out you, you know, uh kind of joyful moments.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe if I kind of reframe those answers, they could be elements or aspects of that are fit under my umbrella.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I would have said that because, and I'm saying, you know, in full transparency, which I'm an open book, I I was always and and have always been kind of intentional about what I was gonna do.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and my family, my relationships are always at the top uh of that list.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always been intentional.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think that that would have been something I would have had to teach my younger self because I feel like I I had as good a handle on that as I as I could have at the at that time.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So but I I agree.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that for the listeners out there that are kind of, you know, their day is running them and they're not running the day.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's really something they should consider and they'll enjoy life a lot more if they are intentional and kind of run things themselves.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great point.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: A great point.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Larry, I know that you are all over the internet and you do so many things.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just take a moment to maybe share with our listeners?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've got a book, you've got a podcast.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where can people find you?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, where can they get more Larry?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the easiest and the best place is if you if you're, you know, the the concept of joy resonates with you.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would highly encourage you to go to mitlin.us slash joyjournal, where you can download your free joy journal and start working towards a more joyful life.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Ashley's showing you the hard copy.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: You could also purchase it if you need, or you know, you're one of those persons that needs a tactile book, you can certainly do that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can get the free version, which is a PDF, and start, you know, working towards a more joyful life.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, you can find out all you, you know, all other ways and means to uh connect and contact us if uh if you so choose.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: We'll make sure that we include the links to those in the show notes.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Larry, I appreciate so much you coming on today.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And for all of you out there tuning in, thank you for allowing Larry and I into your ears and into your mind.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
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• 37:16
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• 37:41
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