Transcript

Credlin | 6 February · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Peter Krandler con Sky News Australia, Good evening.
0:08
Speaker 2: In a moment, you are going to join Peter Dutton
0:11
Speaker 2: and me in a conversation about Australia's future, what's at stake,
0:17
Speaker 2: where we're headed, and some of the choices that you
0:20
Speaker 2: will make in this federal election here and it is
0:24
Speaker 2: a conversation. Too often the interactions between senior politicians and
0:28
Speaker 2: the media are gotcha moments. All they're so shortened, staccato
0:33
Speaker 2: that you don't get a proper understanding of the issues
0:37
Speaker 2: or the individual. One of the privileges I had working
0:41
Speaker 2: for so long in Canberra is the chance to get
0:43
Speaker 2: to know the human beings behind the headlines. And that's
0:48
Speaker 2: what I wanted to do in this discussion with the
0:50
Speaker 2: opposition leader, the man who in a mere matter of
0:54
Speaker 2: weeks could be our prime minister. I've known Peter Dutton
0:58
Speaker 2: for over twenty years. Is now here's your chance to
1:03
Speaker 2: get to know him too. The family man, the politician
1:07
Speaker 2: and the party leader.
1:08
Speaker 3: They were treacherous, they're modern day communists.
1:11
Speaker 1: Outs don't get it.
1:12
Speaker 4: It kills me now, it's unforgivable. There will be a
1:14
Speaker 4: terrorist attack, someone who will lose their life.
1:18
Speaker 1: Did you know straightaway?
1:19
Speaker 4: She was the one I knew what was important to
1:22
Speaker 4: my kids boys, that you were there.
1:24
Speaker 1: That they married.
1:25
Speaker 2: Yes, if you are elected prime minister, what sort of
1:28
Speaker 2: leader will you be? Let's start at the beginning of
1:40
Speaker 2: the Peter Duarton story, because give or take a couple
1:43
Speaker 2: of months, we're about the same age.
1:44
Speaker 1: We're kids of the seventies.
1:47
Speaker 2: Your dad was a brickie, You grew up the eldest
1:50
Speaker 2: of five kids. You grew up at a home in Brisbane.
1:55
Speaker 1: What was that like.
1:56
Speaker 3: Well, we had really happy childhood. We've had lots of.
2:01
Speaker 4: Love and and there was a great work I think
2:05
Speaker 4: that was established because of both dad and mum and
2:09
Speaker 4: they both ultimately small business people, so I think that
2:11
Speaker 4: influences there. And I think we were brought up with
2:14
Speaker 4: good manners and respect. And it was an outer suburban upbringing,
2:18
Speaker 4: so there was lots of jumping in the fence to
2:23
Speaker 4: go and play cricket until dark and ride your bike
2:26
Speaker 4: and be home by dark ready for dinner. And it
2:29
Speaker 4: was that, you know, that sort of quintessential out of
2:33
Speaker 4: suburban upbringing. In my mind, we had you know, wonderful
2:37
Speaker 4: neighbors and it was a you know an under sort
2:44
Speaker 4: of a probably not under privilege is probably not the
2:47
Speaker 4: right word. But it wasn't an affluent part of the world,
2:49
Speaker 4: and still wasn't. I mean, it's a it's a great,
2:51
Speaker 4: great suburb, but it's it's always had working class families there,
2:56
Speaker 4: and ours was certainly one of them.
2:57
Speaker 3: We were always brought up, you know, taught to.
3:01
Speaker 4: Eat everything on the plate, taught to value money, and
3:05
Speaker 4: that was a key part, and not just my parents,
3:08
Speaker 4: but my grandparents and that generation as well, because they
3:12
Speaker 4: would talk about, you know, tougher times and downturns, and
3:18
Speaker 4: particularly my maternal grandmother came off the land.
3:23
Speaker 3: And it hurts me to see families who are working.
3:25
Speaker 4: Really hard and either just keeping the head above water
3:28
Speaker 4: or for many now going backwards.
3:31
Speaker 1: Like you.
3:31
Speaker 2: My dad didn't wear a suit to work. The recession
3:34
Speaker 2: was a real dominant feature in my growing up years.
3:38
Speaker 2: You know. Mum and Dad had a small business in
3:40
Speaker 2: the end, and those interest rates worried them. The thought
3:44
Speaker 2: of insecure work, losing your job. We all had to
3:46
Speaker 2: have something to do after school to earn pocket money.
3:50
Speaker 2: You worked in a butcher's shop. Well, I used to
3:52
Speaker 2: help dad kill a sheep. It's pretty much as you work, right,
3:55
Speaker 2: So did you stick at it or what was that like?
3:59
Speaker 3: Look, I quite I quite enjoyed it.
4:01
Speaker 4: I certainly enjoyed the pocket money and the money that
4:05
Speaker 4: ultimately I was able to save toward a house. And
4:08
Speaker 4: so again it's sort of, I suppose comes back to
4:11
Speaker 4: that work ethic. And and also not only was I
4:15
Speaker 4: exposed to sort of a small business family, you know,
4:18
Speaker 4: in my own home setting, but also you know, the
4:22
Speaker 4: people I worked for, wonderful people, and they epitomized similarly
4:28
Speaker 4: a small business family that went through the ups and
4:30
Speaker 4: downs and trading results down, increases in costs, and there
4:35
Speaker 4: was I remember very distinctly, you know, the four lease
4:39
Speaker 4: signs and the shut shops. There was a real focus
4:45
Speaker 4: on having to get a job or or you'd be unemployed.
4:48
Speaker 4: And so that I think it's fair to say that
4:52
Speaker 4: Paul keating was not very popular in our household.
4:55
Speaker 2: And I remember vividly even now that the worry, in
4:58
Speaker 2: that constant worry parent had at night, and that's clearly
5:02
Speaker 2: a feature of what families are going through now.
5:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right.
5:05
Speaker 4: And when you see the stats now of people and
5:09
Speaker 4: in particular women going back to work a second or
5:11
Speaker 4: third or in fourth job just to try and make
5:14
Speaker 4: things balance, Pulling kids out of low fee schools, deferring
5:20
Speaker 4: having a medical procedure done or going to the doctors
5:22
Speaker 4: because you just can't find the cash in your budget
5:26
Speaker 4: that week. It's a really confronting time for our country.
5:29
Speaker 4: And I don't think even with a drop in interest
5:32
Speaker 4: rates of a quarter or a half a percent, that
5:35
Speaker 4: people are going to see that blue sky that they
5:38
Speaker 4: really crave. And it's changed so quickly. I think that's
5:42
Speaker 4: what's confronted people as well. Over two and a half years.
5:45
Speaker 4: It's deteriorated so quickly. And the other thing which I
5:48
Speaker 4: think is unsettling for people is it's not just economically,
5:52
Speaker 4: but it's socially as well. People feel unsettled about all
5:56
Speaker 4: of the woker gender and the priorities of the Prime
5:59
Speaker 4: Minister that seem to be at odds with their own
6:01
Speaker 4: priorities and concerns. It's the deterioration of the law and
6:05
Speaker 4: order settings and worried about kids breaking into your home
6:09
Speaker 4: and stealing keys to take your car, people being released
6:13
Speaker 4: from immigration detention unnecessarily even though that committed serious crimes.
6:17
Speaker 4: I think that that has created an unsettling period for
6:20
Speaker 4: our country, and I think we're seeing that reflected in
6:24
Speaker 4: people's disillusionment with the government at the moment.
6:26
Speaker 2: I remember once in the Parliament we're having a debate
6:28
Speaker 2: about housing and there was a jibe that was thrown
6:32
Speaker 2: across the chamber to you. You know, what would you
6:33
Speaker 2: know about housing? You owned a home young, with the
6:38
Speaker 2: inference you know you're a liberal. Someone must have given
6:41
Speaker 2: you a deposit or helped you into your first time.
6:44
Speaker 2: You worked and saved for your first home, and that's
6:47
Speaker 2: a massive achievement.
6:48
Speaker 1: You were young.
6:49
Speaker 2: I think you were saving when I was going in
6:52
Speaker 2: the parbor people people our age were you know like that.
6:54
Speaker 1: That's something to be proud of.
6:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I am proud of it, you know.
6:58
Speaker 4: I mean I missed out on probably a lot of sport,
7:01
Speaker 4: and not that you live with regrets, but I've encouraged
7:05
Speaker 4: my kids to have great managers and great work ethic,
7:10
Speaker 4: but also to enjoy the full experience of kids their
7:16
Speaker 4: age and sport in particular, and our kids have been
7:19
Speaker 4: pretty sporty. So yeah, you look back on what sacrifice
7:23
Speaker 4: you made for that, But for me, it allowed that
7:26
Speaker 4: dream to be achieved. Quickly, and I saw home ownership
7:29
Speaker 4: as a pathway to improving my financial position. And it
7:34
Speaker 4: kills me now that a nineteen or twenty year old,
7:37
Speaker 4: twenty one year old couldn't purchase a house in the
7:39
Speaker 4: same circumstances, even with that hard work and sacrifice and savings.
7:44
Speaker 4: I really want home ownership to be front and center
7:46
Speaker 4: of the priorities that we have when we're in government.
7:50
Speaker 2: We used to call that aspiration. Why have we stopped
7:53
Speaker 2: talking about aspiration?
7:55
Speaker 4: I think it should just roll off our tongues regularly
7:58
Speaker 4: because it's been a great part of our culture. But
8:01
Speaker 4: part of the reason I think it's been important to
8:03
Speaker 4: have the discussion around Australia Day and around one Flag
8:07
Speaker 4: is because I want to really reinvigorate our national pride.
8:10
Speaker 4: And I think we've been indoctrinated. Our kids have been
8:13
Speaker 4: indoctrinated for a generation or two now through the schooling system,
8:16
Speaker 4: from childcare right through the university, being told that they
8:20
Speaker 4: should be ashamed of our history and our treatment of
8:23
Speaker 4: Indigenous people, et cetera. I want us to embrace our
8:27
Speaker 4: whole experience and history as a nation. Should be proud
8:32
Speaker 4: of our indigenous culture, but equally we should be incredibly
8:35
Speaker 4: proud of a migrant story which has seen that aspiration
8:38
Speaker 4: played out. It's something we should talk more about, and
8:40
Speaker 4: I really want it to be a centerpiece of our
8:43
Speaker 4: time and government.
8:44
Speaker 1: When did you know you wanted to go into police force.
8:47
Speaker 4: From a very young age. There's a good photo. I
8:50
Speaker 4: don't know if it's dressed up at KINDI or you know,
8:54
Speaker 4: grade one or two or something, and I'm sort of
8:57
Speaker 4: standing there proudly, and I don't know where Mue procured
8:59
Speaker 4: the uniform from, but I was there, and i'd also
9:05
Speaker 4: whilst I sort of, you know, I started enrolled in
9:09
Speaker 4: a business degree and I could never see myself really
9:12
Speaker 4: working in a nine to five office job, and so
9:15
Speaker 4: the police, for me, it was sort of a I
9:18
Speaker 4: don't know, there was part adventure but part interesting in
9:23
Speaker 4: you know that we were always sort of brought up
9:24
Speaker 4: with a sense of community and giving back.
9:27
Speaker 2: When you were a uniformed young policeman, how do you
9:32
Speaker 2: not take home some of the stuff you see, because yes,
9:36
Speaker 2: you'd see the best of people, but you also see.
9:38
Speaker 4: The worst you do, and you see, particularly with domestic violence,
9:43
Speaker 4: the same sort of episode being repeated each shift, and
9:48
Speaker 4: the same devastation and the same cul de sac that
9:52
Speaker 4: people are stuck in where financially they can't afford to
9:54
Speaker 4: leave a relationship. I was up in Alice Springs just
9:58
Speaker 4: recently and talking to the place up there who are
10:01
Speaker 4: dealing you across a shift with thirty domestic violence incidents
10:05
Speaker 4: and they're just going from one job to the next,
10:07
Speaker 4: and that I think that becomes very debilitating and disheartening
10:13
Speaker 4: very quickly, because in many of the cases there's not
10:15
Speaker 4: a good outcome, you.
10:18
Speaker 2: Know, coping with all of this and obviously coping with
10:21
Speaker 2: the things and arrows of politics. I've got to ask
10:23
Speaker 2: you before we leave this sort of early years. Do
10:26
Speaker 2: you still have mates from school? Do you still have
10:29
Speaker 2: old mates in your life?
10:30
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do. I do. I've got a group of
10:34
Speaker 3: about seven of us.
10:37
Speaker 4: And we've staged, you know, friends from from high school.
10:42
Speaker 4: I've got one mate from primary school. And I think it's.
10:47
Speaker 1: A measure of someone that they've got old mates in
10:49
Speaker 1: their life.
10:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so. I mean we've just been loyal
10:53
Speaker 4: and together for you know. As I say, we finished
10:56
Speaker 4: school nineteen eighty seven, so it's a long time ago.
10:58
Speaker 1: You ended up.
10:59
Speaker 2: As I said, as a detective. You worked in a
11:01
Speaker 2: number of areas, but principally the sex crime Squad. How
11:07
Speaker 2: did that influence your time in the Parliament.
11:09
Speaker 4: I worked for a long time in the Drug Squad
11:12
Speaker 4: and the National Crime Authority and the Covert and Surveillance Unit,
11:15
Speaker 4: so I worked across a number of different squads.
11:18
Speaker 3: But I mean in the era of.
11:22
Speaker 4: Sex offenders, particularly where you've got young girls or children,
11:25
Speaker 4: you know, women who are are victims of crime in
11:28
Speaker 4: that space, you know, I think that has to have
11:33
Speaker 4: an impact on you taking statements, visiting crime scenes, prosecuting matters,
11:39
Speaker 4: dealing with offenders, and it became, i think, from that
11:44
Speaker 4: time and probably even before that, in uniform, a real
11:48
Speaker 4: passion in terms of protection of women and children. And
11:51
Speaker 4: I think it's a fundamental part of a civilized society
11:53
Speaker 4: that we take care of people who are most vulnerable.
11:56
Speaker 2: I know you've also stordally closely with the more the
12:00
Speaker 2: mom and dad of Daniel Molcombe, of course, who was
12:03
Speaker 2: abducted and murdered so horrifically, and I argue that we
12:07
Speaker 2: need a national Register of child sex offenders. If you
12:11
Speaker 2: were PM, would you bring that in?
12:13
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, very much so. I think it's important. We
12:16
Speaker 4: tried to push it when we were in government. The
12:17
Speaker 4: States largely weren't interested. But I think we do justice
12:23
Speaker 4: to some of those victims, including Daniel, if we can
12:26
Speaker 4: provide more information, not less to communities about where the
12:30
Speaker 4: risk is in their community and the precautions that people
12:33
Speaker 4: parents need to take.
12:34
Speaker 1: So you met kurrily, how did you both meet?
12:39
Speaker 3: We met through a friend and.
12:45
Speaker 1: Did you know straight away? She was sort of the one.
12:48
Speaker 4: I was very interested straight away, and I think, you know,
12:52
Speaker 4: it's over twenty years ago now, so our memories probably
12:55
Speaker 4: blur and become more romantic than I might have been
12:58
Speaker 4: at the time. But no, I just I found to
13:01
Speaker 4: such an easy person to relate to, to get on with,
13:07
Speaker 4: and I think we I think we hit it off
13:09
Speaker 4: pretty quickly, and there was, you know, even to this day,
13:12
Speaker 4: sort of just a like an instinctive understanding of each
13:17
Speaker 4: other and allowing ourselves our respective space. And one of
13:24
Speaker 4: the most important things for me has been that, in
13:26
Speaker 4: my absence just given the ear away a lot obviously
13:30
Speaker 4: with this job, that the kids have been raised in
13:33
Speaker 4: exactly the same way as I would have wanted them
13:36
Speaker 4: raised had I been there. And she's never complained about
13:39
Speaker 4: about that and the sacrifice she's had to.
13:40
Speaker 3: Make to her own career, et cetera.
13:42
Speaker 4: So so, yeah, we've had We've had a great relationship
13:45
Speaker 4: and I'm very fortunate, very blessed in the sense to
13:49
Speaker 4: to have found her. And yeah, we enjoyed a really
13:53
Speaker 4: strong relationship. And it's I think it facilitates, you know,
13:59
Speaker 4: it helps.
14:01
Speaker 1: It's a nice called librium when I see you together.
14:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
14:04
Speaker 2: Nice.
14:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a nice delibrium.
14:06
Speaker 4: It's nice to be able to have a glass of
14:07
Speaker 4: wine and joke about the day or what's in the
14:10
Speaker 4: news or what's coming up, and just have a normal discussion.
14:15
Speaker 2: You've never, unlike some people in politics, You've never airbrushed
14:19
Speaker 2: your backstory. And when you met Kiraly, you were a
14:23
Speaker 2: dad or soon to be a dad to a girlfriend
14:27
Speaker 2: who I understand was pregnant after you'd broken up, which
14:31
Speaker 2: resulted in your daughter, Rebecca.
14:34
Speaker 1: How did you approach that with Kiraly.
14:37
Speaker 4: Well, it was a tough issue at the time because
14:39
Speaker 4: I'd been married when I was about twenty three for
14:41
Speaker 4: about six months and picked up my then wife from
14:46
Speaker 4: a night shift and she said, I don't love you anymore,
14:50
Speaker 4: and it was sort of pretty shocking.
14:53
Speaker 3: At the time, but we just got married too young.
14:55
Speaker 4: I was working too hard and didn't have enough time
14:58
Speaker 4: for the relationship and it was just one of those things.
15:01
Speaker 4: I was engaged to Bex, to my daughter's mum, and
15:07
Speaker 4: and Rebecca was conceived in that relationship, and that relationship
15:14
Speaker 4: broke up. Caroly and I met after that, And yeah,
15:21
Speaker 4: in terms of how to curly respond to that again,
15:26
Speaker 4: all in Astride and Rebecca's never you know and her
15:30
Speaker 4: in time. I've never seen each other as step brother
15:34
Speaker 4: and sister, and that has never.
15:37
Speaker 3: Been language in our household.
15:38
Speaker 4: The kids have always been treated equally by me, by Kirale,
15:43
Speaker 4: and I think that's been an important thing as well.
15:46
Speaker 4: And they're all different personalities, but the three kids are
15:50
Speaker 4: incredibly close and you know, and for me, that's a
15:54
Speaker 4: beautiful thing to watch them together.
15:56
Speaker 2: Your family stories not disimmon the money around Australia. I mean,
15:59
Speaker 2: this is what it is like more and more these days.
16:02
Speaker 2: And your two boys, I understand one's doing in trade.
16:07
Speaker 2: How's that for you to see someone going out making
16:11
Speaker 2: their way as an apprentice?
16:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, again, it's funny how they take different paths. Beck's
16:14
Speaker 4: doing childcare, and she really enjoys that she's just come
16:18
Speaker 4: back from a trip overseas sort of a backpacking experience,
16:21
Speaker 4: and so she's out of cash and back at work.
16:24
Speaker 1: Absolutely need to get her in the butcher shop.
16:27
Speaker 4: Exactly, but she's actually got a really good savings ethic
16:31
Speaker 4: and really has as an objective to buy a house
16:34
Speaker 4: or a unit as soon as she can.
16:37
Speaker 3: Harry is.
16:40
Speaker 4: Doing his first year apprenticeship as a carpenter. He was
16:43
Speaker 4: at UNI for a year and then he deferred that
16:48
Speaker 4: he's going back to UNI because he wants to do
16:50
Speaker 4: construction management and sort of property economics type degree as
16:55
Speaker 4: well as his apprenticeship. And he's got sort of a
16:57
Speaker 4: bit of an entrepreneurial sort of to him, so he
17:01
Speaker 4: sees himself as a as a builder slash developer in time,
17:04
Speaker 4: not always on the tools, but wants to understand, you know,
17:07
Speaker 4: the ins and outs of the business.
17:08
Speaker 5: And it's just sort of it's it's heartening for me
17:16
Speaker 5: because it's actually been I think my dad is really
17:19
Speaker 5: proud of that as well, that, you know, because none
17:21
Speaker 5: of us went on to you know, to a construction career,
17:25
Speaker 5: and I think Dad sort of takes a lot of
17:27
Speaker 5: pride in the discussions he can have with Harry.
17:29
Speaker 3: And and you know.
17:32
Speaker 4: My siblings and I always joke about Dad going into
17:36
Speaker 4: a restaurant or into a building somewhere and he's checking
17:39
Speaker 4: out the corners and checking out whether this is plant
17:41
Speaker 4: or that's straight. And now Harry's has started to do
17:44
Speaker 4: the same, which is which has been you know, a
17:46
Speaker 4: bit comical, but so yeah, so he's enjoying himself. And
17:49
Speaker 4: then Tom, our youngest guy, has deferred UNI in doing
17:53
Speaker 4: a gap year now grown into two years out on
17:56
Speaker 4: a on a big property and loving it. And he's
18:01
Speaker 4: got that real rural sort of.
18:03
Speaker 3: You know, farmers feel to him. Tom, So, I think
18:06
Speaker 3: you'll end up.
18:07
Speaker 4: Doing that full time and working in the egg industry,
18:09
Speaker 4: which is I think a fantastic industry.
18:12
Speaker 2: You know, it's only our political leaders, the leader of
18:14
Speaker 2: the opposition and the Prime minister who have a security detail.
18:18
Speaker 1: But you've had one.
18:19
Speaker 2: You've had police protection for well over a decade now
18:23
Speaker 2: that's rare, that's twenty four to seven. You know, they're
18:26
Speaker 2: with you all the time. How's it affected your family?
18:30
Speaker 3: Looks it's not easy.
18:33
Speaker 4: I mean, there's no sort of sugarcating that, but the
18:35
Speaker 4: federal police have been fantastic with our kids from day
18:37
Speaker 4: one and.
18:38
Speaker 3: Great with Curle and I as well.
18:40
Speaker 4: But everything needs to be you know, the logistics need
18:43
Speaker 4: to be all before and if you want to go
18:46
Speaker 4: to the shop or you want to go to a restaurant,
18:49
Speaker 4: you're making a booking for a second table. And so yeah,
18:54
Speaker 4: I mean, you live in that bubble and it almost
18:56
Speaker 4: gets to a point where it's just easy to stay
18:58
Speaker 4: at home. It's you know, it's not just sort of
19:03
Speaker 4: the personal protection police that are with you, it's it's
19:06
Speaker 4: the uniform police who are at home.
19:09
Speaker 3: And so the kids have lived with that.
19:12
Speaker 1: You know, really basically all their life.
19:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
19:15
Speaker 4: There was one occasion the kids had had a death
19:18
Speaker 4: threat and at school the police were there with them,
19:22
Speaker 4: and it was Harry or Tom said that it's so
19:26
Speaker 4: embarrassing the police are at school. I said, made no
19:29
Speaker 4: one know who they are, And one of them said
19:31
Speaker 4: that it's they're the only people walking around with bum
19:33
Speaker 4: bags in the school. Everyone knows who they are. And
19:37
Speaker 4: fortunately that didn't last for long. Again, you know, Carle's
19:40
Speaker 4: had death threats and all sorts of things which go
19:43
Speaker 4: with this job.
19:44
Speaker 3: That's the nature of it.
19:45
Speaker 2: I mention it because, as I said, only only pms
19:47
Speaker 2: and opposition.
19:49
Speaker 1: Leaders, party leaders have this sort of protection.
19:51
Speaker 2: You've had it because you've just enforced our laws as
19:55
Speaker 2: the Border Protection Minister. You know it took some tough decisions,
19:59
Speaker 2: but they were the right decisions to deport bikes. I
20:02
Speaker 2: think criminal elements at Australians would support your sending packing.
20:06
Speaker 2: But it's got a personal cost on the politician.
20:09
Speaker 4: Well it does, and from my perspective, it's a price
20:13
Speaker 4: worth paying.
20:13
Speaker 1: Because I was going to ask you to do it again, I.
20:16
Speaker 3: Would do it absolutely and we will do it, I
20:18
Speaker 3: promise you.
20:19
Speaker 4: In government we'll have a particular focus on those people
20:22
Speaker 4: who just aren't living up to the commitment they've made
20:24
Speaker 4: to abide by the law when they come.
20:26
Speaker 3: To our country.
20:27
Speaker 4: And I take that responsibility responsibility really seriously because I
20:32
Speaker 4: just think there are millions of people who want to
20:34
Speaker 4: come to our country and enjoy a great start, like
20:36
Speaker 4: the migrant story that we spoke of earlier, and it
20:40
Speaker 4: doesn't seem there's no sense in my mind to allowing
20:45
Speaker 4: somebody to stay here who's going to continue to commit
20:47
Speaker 4: offenses against particularly women and children, but be involved in
20:51
Speaker 4: drug dealing or whatever.
20:52
Speaker 3: Their activity might be.
20:54
Speaker 4: I was up on the Central Coast only a few
20:56
Speaker 4: months ago when a grandmother and again it's like they're
21:01
Speaker 4: amazing stories. But she was waiting for me, which always
21:05
Speaker 4: sort of worries the police, I think when at the
21:08
Speaker 4: exit when someone's waiting for you and they're thinking this
21:09
Speaker 4: is going to be good or bad. But yes, yeah,
21:12
Speaker 4: And she had like a high visvest On in a
21:16
Speaker 4: factory that we'd visited, and she said, you know, I
21:20
Speaker 4: just want to say thank you, And I said why.
21:22
Speaker 4: And her daughter had been the subject of domestic violence
21:26
Speaker 4: and quite serious domestic violence, and I had as minister,
21:30
Speaker 4: canceled the visa of her partner for the crimes that
21:35
Speaker 4: he'd committed and he was deported from the country. And
21:38
Speaker 4: she told the story, and you gave me a big
21:40
Speaker 4: Hugan told me the story that her daughter's life, in
21:44
Speaker 4: her mind had been saved because she was able now
21:48
Speaker 4: to form a functioning relationship and her kids were safe.
21:52
Speaker 3: And you know that's ultimately that's what it's about.
21:58
Speaker 2: So you get into parliament, John, how how it promotes
22:01
Speaker 2: you to the ministry That was a rapid rise and
22:04
Speaker 2: you worked in I think it was employment ministry.
22:07
Speaker 1: Work for the DOAL was a big passion of yours.
22:10
Speaker 2: You would then the Assistant Treasurer though, to Peter Cristello,
22:13
Speaker 2: what did you learn from that time? Well?
22:15
Speaker 4: I learned a lot, is the obvious but short answer.
22:19
Speaker 4: John Howard was good enough to promote me after just
22:22
Speaker 4: one term, which is unusual, but I'll be forever grateful
22:26
Speaker 4: and into the workforce Participation portfolio. And then as you say,
22:29
Speaker 4: went to Assistant treasure and Minister for Revenue and work
22:31
Speaker 4: with Peter. I also work with Nick Mentionin and obviously
22:35
Speaker 4: John Howard in that space at a time when you're
22:39
Speaker 4: putting budgets together and hearing all of the pictures from
22:43
Speaker 4: the different ministers and going through you as you well know,
22:47
Speaker 4: the hours and hours and hours of expectit to review
22:50
Speaker 4: committee and because.
22:53
Speaker 2: Ministers I want people at home to understand ministers like
22:55
Speaker 2: to spend money, and you have to some strength around
22:58
Speaker 2: the table to look at it as as a whole
23:00
Speaker 2: of government budget, not just a portfolio budget.
23:04
Speaker 3: Correct.
23:04
Speaker 4: Correct, you know, and Peter could be tough with colleagues
23:06
Speaker 4: and Nick as well, but it was an economic discipline
23:12
Speaker 4: that was required and it was the mantra of the
23:15
Speaker 4: Howard government, and it ultimately set up the country financially
23:20
Speaker 4: to deal with everything that we faced since then, all
23:22
Speaker 4: of the headwinds economically and globally and wars etc. Because
23:26
Speaker 4: Labour's debt was paid down at that time and money
23:30
Speaker 4: was given back to families, etc. But it was about
23:34
Speaker 4: finding the right priorities in the funding pictures that were
23:37
Speaker 4: coming forward. And it was also a learning experience for
23:40
Speaker 4: me to see who was across their brief who could
23:43
Speaker 4: answer the questions about the programs, who had read the papers,
23:46
Speaker 4: who had the ability to turn the argument and change
23:51
Speaker 4: the dynamic.
23:52
Speaker 2: Of the contemn so, who was actually running their departments
23:55
Speaker 2: and who were being run by their department.
23:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the voice of experience exactly right.
24:00
Speaker 4: And could you could see a lot of the ministers
24:03
Speaker 4: with a real grasp and a gravitas. They were the
24:06
Speaker 4: ones who were successful and others not so. So I
24:11
Speaker 4: learned a lot from Peter Costello during that period and
24:15
Speaker 4: I think that helped set me up.
24:16
Speaker 1: And I guess Peter Costello John how too.
24:18
Speaker 2: But Peter Costello really understood that government spending adds to inflation,
24:23
Speaker 2: and government spending is necessary, but the quantum of it,
24:26
Speaker 2: and the Reserve Bank governor will back you up on this,
24:29
Speaker 2: but that's also got to be front of mind for government.
24:32
Speaker 3: Exactly right.
24:33
Speaker 4: I mean, part of the reason now that Michelle Bullock,
24:35
Speaker 4: who I think is doing a great job as the
24:36
Speaker 4: Reserve Bank Governor, says that we've got homegrown inflation is
24:40
Speaker 4: that the Albanezi government spent almost three hundred and fifty
24:43
Speaker 4: billion dollars additional and that money pumped into the economy
24:47
Speaker 4: has fueled the inflation, the homegrown inflation. The interest rates
24:51
Speaker 4: have gone down elsewhere in the world, in the US
24:54
Speaker 4: and the UK and Canada and New Zealand, but they've
24:56
Speaker 4: not come down here yet. I hope they come down soon,
24:58
Speaker 4: but certainly any economist will tell you that they've stayed
25:02
Speaker 4: higher for longer because of the government spending. The thirty
25:06
Speaker 4: six thousand extra public servants in Canberra, it's six billion
25:09
Speaker 4: dollars a year, twenty four billion, twenty five billion across
25:12
Speaker 4: the estimates.
25:13
Speaker 1: If they turned up to work too.
25:15
Speaker 4: Well, and people are still working from home, including the
25:17
Speaker 4: Home Affairs Department, which is completely unacceptable. So there's yeah, look,
25:22
Speaker 4: I think there's there's a lot that for me in
25:26
Speaker 4: terms of my economic experience and credentials. It started with
25:31
Speaker 4: that family small business experience, and it went through my
25:36
Speaker 4: own time as a small business owner, and it was
25:40
Speaker 4: consolidated through that period of working with the giants of
25:45
Speaker 4: Howard and Costello and Minchin and others.
25:48
Speaker 2: So two thousand and seven comes along Kevin O seven
25:52
Speaker 2: takes out mister Howard and we have three opposition leaders,
25:58
Speaker 2: three Liberal leaders in almost I think three years, and
26:01
Speaker 2: Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turbull, Tony Abbott. I certainly have to
26:07
Speaker 2: admit I thought about leaving politics at that time. It
26:10
Speaker 2: was tumultuous. Did it cross your mind to stick it
26:14
Speaker 2: out or go I've.
26:16
Speaker 4: Certainly had different periods where I thought, you know, times
26:19
Speaker 4: up and you should get out.
26:20
Speaker 3: I'd always thought.
26:21
Speaker 4: That when you lose momentum in politics and you're going backwards,
26:26
Speaker 4: it really then become just a seat warmer and you
26:30
Speaker 4: better off to get out and let somebody else have
26:32
Speaker 4: it go.
26:32
Speaker 3: It was a tumultuous.
26:34
Speaker 4: Period and it was a period of shame in many
26:36
Speaker 4: ways for the Liberal Party and for me, a scarring experience.
26:40
Speaker 4: I'm just looking at that glass of water thinking it
26:42
Speaker 4: should be a genotonic just for the conversation, because it
26:45
Speaker 4: needs it needs alcohol to truly recall all of that
26:49
Speaker 4: detail and survive it. But I also learned again, as
26:54
Speaker 4: you know, as I've said publicly, having served under four
26:57
Speaker 4: prime ministers, looked at the good and the bad, and
27:01
Speaker 4: the leaders with leadership qualities and those with just self interest.
27:06
Speaker 4: And I thought that I had taken a lot from that.
27:10
Speaker 4: I think we've enjoyed a period of stability over the
27:14
Speaker 4: course of last two and he is certainly in contrast
27:16
Speaker 4: to that period.
27:18
Speaker 2: Talking about the hung parliament because you know, if the
27:21
Speaker 2: polls are to be believed, that's out on the cards again.
27:24
Speaker 2: And you know, I remember that hung parliament of twenty
27:27
Speaker 2: ten when Julia Gillard did a deal with the Greens
27:32
Speaker 2: and to former National Party MPs Rob Oakshott and Tony Windsor,
27:36
Speaker 2: and our country really lost three years and we just
27:40
Speaker 2: stalled for three years. What do you remember from that time?
27:44
Speaker 4: Well, I think, say what you will about Julia Gillard
27:47
Speaker 4: and Kevin Rudd, but they were strong leaders. I mean
27:50
Speaker 4: Julia Gillard had a tenacity to her. She held the
27:54
Speaker 4: whip hand in terms of dealing with the Greens, and
27:58
Speaker 4: I think The difference now is that Anthony ALBERNIZI doesn't
28:01
Speaker 4: have the capacity, the leadership strength, the personality traits to
28:09
Speaker 4: maintain a minority government in a way that's going to
28:11
Speaker 4: serve the national interest. And it was incredibly destabilizing. I
28:16
Speaker 4: think Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor betrayed their electorates. I
28:21
Speaker 4: think they were treacherous and you know, I think to
28:24
Speaker 4: Tony Abbott's great credit and to yours during that period
28:27
Speaker 4: as well, it was.
28:30
Speaker 3: It was unsettling and it took a.
28:31
Speaker 4: Lot to dust ourselves off from missing out in twenty
28:36
Speaker 4: ten and coming back in a pretty remarkable way.
28:41
Speaker 3: So there's again sort of a lot to learn from
28:45
Speaker 3: that period.
28:46
Speaker 4: But minority government is not good for our country, and
28:51
Speaker 4: particularly given the instability that's been created through three years
28:55
Speaker 4: of a bad government, to then put a second layer
29:00
Speaker 4: of minority government on that. I think if Australians believe
29:03
Speaker 4: that times are tough now, they'll get much tougher in
29:06
Speaker 4: that environment. And I do believe that we can form
29:09
Speaker 4: a majority government after the election.
29:12
Speaker 3: I think the momentum is there.
29:14
Speaker 4: I think people are demanding of a change, and I
29:17
Speaker 4: think we have certainly the credentials in terms of economic
29:22
Speaker 4: management and national security at a time when that's really
29:26
Speaker 4: important in people's minds. But we've got a lot of
29:29
Speaker 4: work to do between now and then.
29:31
Speaker 2: How is it that Australia has been able to stop
29:34
Speaker 2: the boats when almost no other country around the world has.
29:39
Speaker 4: I think the work that was done in opposition, and
29:42
Speaker 4: I think Tony had a real discipline around as shadow
29:46
Speaker 4: ministers doing the work.
29:48
Speaker 1: And I want to pay credit there to Jim Moulin.
29:51
Speaker 4: One hundred percent did an incredible job and was able
29:55
Speaker 4: to bring together a policy that was well thought through,
29:57
Speaker 4: understood the intricacies of the the policy that intended and
30:02
Speaker 4: intended consequences. I think there was just clear vision about
30:05
Speaker 4: what that looked like, and Tony had the strength and
30:08
Speaker 4: the resolve of the leadership to be able to adhere
30:10
Speaker 4: to it, and of course the instinct of the public
30:14
Speaker 4: servants was to run in.
30:16
Speaker 3: The opposite direction.
30:17
Speaker 4: With the resolve that was demonstrated, there was an outcome
30:21
Speaker 4: achieve that nobody thought could be achieved and as you
30:23
Speaker 4: point out, hasn't been achieved in the United Kingdom or
30:27
Speaker 4: or elsewhere. And look, some of the tough decisions that
30:29
Speaker 4: we had to make with boats on water. As Immigration
30:33
Speaker 4: Ministry and Home Affairs Ministry and having responsibility for operation
30:37
Speaker 4: sovereign borders, there are some tough calls that you have
30:39
Speaker 4: to make, there's no question. But like with the visa cancelations,
30:43
Speaker 4: the lens that I always looked through was what is
30:46
Speaker 4: in our country's best interest, what's in our national interest,
30:48
Speaker 4: and there are a lot of poor factors in Australia
30:51
Speaker 4: at the moment that could see the boats restart. In fact,
30:54
Speaker 4: we know that a number of boats have made land
30:59
Speaker 4: and the government knows nothing about it because they've pulled
31:01
Speaker 4: twenty percent of the budget from aerial surveillance and the
31:05
Speaker 4: on water surveillance as well, which is I think is madness.
31:08
Speaker 4: But it shows the government's priorities, particularly in that national security,
31:12
Speaker 4: law and order anti Semitism space. I mean that they're
31:14
Speaker 4: just they're skewed and their moral compass is way off.
31:19
Speaker 2: What I've never understood, you know, is that the government
31:21
Speaker 2: took a decision to remove the Australian Federal Police from
31:25
Speaker 2: that table, the National Security Committee of Cabinet, and they
31:28
Speaker 2: took away Asio from having a seat at that table.
31:32
Speaker 4: Well, they did it so that they had room around
31:34
Speaker 4: the table for the climate change Secretary, et cetera, which
31:37
Speaker 4: is inexplicable. People in labor, some of them will tell
31:41
Speaker 4: you that the greatest national security threat we face is
31:44
Speaker 4: climate change, not a caravan packed with explosives that has
31:48
Speaker 4: a forty meter blastein. It's climate change. And that's how
31:54
Speaker 4: they think.
31:55
Speaker 3: And that shows you the priorities. And it shows.
31:58
Speaker 4: In the fact that the Prime hasn't been briefed on
32:02
Speaker 4: the latest terrorist attempted terrorist attack, whereas Premier Mints has.
32:08
Speaker 3: But the problems doesn't seem to have any interest.
32:10
Speaker 1: I think.
32:10
Speaker 2: Isn't that because he's almost waiting to be told what
32:13
Speaker 2: his day looks like? He's not driving events. I mean
32:16
Speaker 2: I remember the Lint siege. Yes that was the jurisdiction
32:19
Speaker 2: of the New South Wales Police.
32:20
Speaker 1: But the Abbott.
32:22
Speaker 2: Cabinet, the NSC you might have been there at the time.
32:26
Speaker 2: It met frequently and it was wanting the information, and
32:29
Speaker 2: it had all the apparatus of the common world, heavily
32:32
Speaker 2: involved in the counter terrorism space.
32:34
Speaker 1: So is it.
32:36
Speaker 2: Because he's not interested? Is it because he just lets
32:39
Speaker 2: everyone else do their own thing? Is he focused on
32:42
Speaker 2: the retirement door. I just don't get it.
32:45
Speaker 4: To be honest, It's hard for me to give you
32:47
Speaker 4: an honest answer because I don't understand, as Prime Minister,
32:50
Speaker 4: how you couldn't be immersed in the most important responsibility
32:53
Speaker 4: that you have, and that is to keep people safe.
32:56
Speaker 4: And I think it's best demonstrated through the rise of
32:58
Speaker 4: anti Semitism in Australia. The Prime Minister and I said
33:01
Speaker 4: at the time, and you know, the usual ABC critics
33:04
Speaker 4: teed off, but I thought when we saw the dramatic
33:09
Speaker 4: incident on the steps of the Opera House on October
33:12
Speaker 4: nine went around the world, that that was an opportunity
33:14
Speaker 4: for our Prime minister to stand up and show leadership
33:17
Speaker 4: in the same way that John Howard was able to
33:19
Speaker 4: show leadership at the time of the Port Arthur massacre.
33:22
Speaker 4: He stood up, he understood the mood of the nation,
33:25
Speaker 4: he knew what had to happen. And yet Anthony Alberanisi
33:30
Speaker 4: given the opportunity scripted and every demonstration that's taken place
33:36
Speaker 4: since then without any law enforcement response is just more
33:41
Speaker 4: encouragement for them to push further and further. I think
33:45
Speaker 4: because the Prime Minister has been absent from all of that,
33:49
Speaker 4: whereas he should have been sitting around the table getting
33:52
Speaker 4: regular updates in the National Security Committee of Cabinet, giving
33:55
Speaker 4: definite direction to the austral and Federal Police Commissioner and
33:58
Speaker 4: the Director General of who should always be around that table.
34:02
Speaker 4: It's unforgivable that he took them away. They're the subject
34:05
Speaker 4: matter experts. Why he wouldn't have them there is beyond me,
34:08
Speaker 4: and the Prime Minister should be given giving definite direction
34:12
Speaker 4: that we have zero tolerance for anti Semitism and i
34:15
Speaker 4: want you to use every tool that you have within
34:18
Speaker 4: the law to stamp this out. And I'm not going
34:21
Speaker 4: to allow Jewish Australians or any other segment of our
34:24
Speaker 4: community to be treated in.
34:25
Speaker 3: This racist way.
34:27
Speaker 4: But he hasn't done that, and he sees political advantage
34:30
Speaker 4: in trying to win Green votes in the City Sydney,
34:33
Speaker 4: in Melbourne and holding votes in Western Sydney. I think
34:36
Speaker 4: it's been one of the most shameful periods of leadership
34:40
Speaker 4: or lack thereof, that I've seen in my lifetime. I mean,
34:44
Speaker 4: the Prime Minister makes that baseless accusation of politicizing the
34:49
Speaker 4: issue because I don't think he's got a.
34:51
Speaker 3: Good story to tell himself, and I think he.
34:54
Speaker 1: Sees it and he hasn't got a record to run well.
34:57
Speaker 3: I mean, it's the whole problem of the government.
34:59
Speaker 4: There's nothing they can look that people can identify that
35:02
Speaker 4: the government's achieved over the course of the.
35:03
Speaker 3: Last three years.
35:05
Speaker 4: And so you throw out these red herrings and you
35:07
Speaker 4: throw the marden, you start the personal attacks because you're
35:10
Speaker 4: try to distract away from the reality of the situation.
35:13
Speaker 4: The reality of the situation is that nobody's politicizing these issues.
35:17
Speaker 4: When you get lifetime Labor members members of their party
35:22
Speaker 4: who are resigning from the Labor Party because of the
35:26
Speaker 4: Prime Minister's in action on the issue of anti Semitism,
35:30
Speaker 4: you know that that's not about politics. It's because there
35:32
Speaker 4: is a serious problem here and someone who will lose
35:34
Speaker 4: their life, there will be a terrorist attack if this
35:38
Speaker 4: issue is not dealt with and if it's not treated
35:40
Speaker 4: as a national security and national crisis and emergency. I
35:45
Speaker 4: think every Australian has really been rattled by the poor
35:48
Speaker 4: response from the Prime Minister and that leadership should have
35:51
Speaker 4: been shown from day one by the Prime Minister the
35:54
Speaker 4: same way that John Howard did, and I think we
35:56
Speaker 4: would have had a very different dynamic today had that
35:58
Speaker 4: been the case.
36:00
Speaker 2: So when you spoke on my show and we talked
36:01
Speaker 2: about the flag long before Australia Day, and you made
36:05
Speaker 2: it clear that you know you'll have one flag behind
36:07
Speaker 2: you if you lead the nation or with the nation's flag,
36:10
Speaker 2: it's the flag behind you. Now, I might add, at
36:13
Speaker 2: the request of your office. I mean, you fed income
36:15
Speaker 2: about this. Did the reaction surprise you?
36:19
Speaker 4: No, because the haters will hate, and there's always that element.
36:22
Speaker 4: But I think the stance we took last year calling
36:26
Speaker 4: out will worse for its bad behavior. And I think
36:30
Speaker 4: the national pride that's built up since then. I think
36:34
Speaker 4: the position on the voice where Australians thought, you know,
36:37
Speaker 4: thank God, like I thought I was the only person
36:40
Speaker 4: who thought this was crazy.
36:41
Speaker 1: Do you think that the license to speak that I do.
36:44
Speaker 4: I do.
36:44
Speaker 3: I think it lifted it.
36:45
Speaker 4: I think it lifted a cloak and allowed them to
36:48
Speaker 4: be seen again and to be heard again. I think
36:52
Speaker 4: the Prime Minister thinks about local community as you know,
36:57
Speaker 4: sort of the local hipsters in his electorate and people
37:01
Speaker 4: who's trying to stop from becoming Green voters. And I
37:03
Speaker 4: think he's completely and utterly disconnected with people in the
37:06
Speaker 4: suburbs and That's why I say I think that the modern.
37:09
Speaker 3: Liberal Party is the party of the worker.
37:12
Speaker 4: The modern Labor Party is the party of the inner
37:15
Speaker 4: city trendy, and that has created them all sorts of problems.
37:20
Speaker 4: It's reflected in their policy on mining, their policy in
37:24
Speaker 4: relation to salmon farming in Tasmania, their policy in relation
37:27
Speaker 4: to anti Semitism. The sheep export industry in Wa has
37:31
Speaker 4: been blown up because of the desire to please a
37:36
Speaker 4: Green voter on the East Coast. And I just think
37:40
Speaker 4: we're living the greatest country in the world. Let's stand
37:42
Speaker 4: up for it. Let's be proud of our history and
37:44
Speaker 4: admit the mistakes like any nation of our history, but
37:47
Speaker 4: not be defined by it. And I just think there
37:50
Speaker 4: is a collective side of relief. And the number of
37:52
Speaker 4: people have come up to me to say thanks for
37:54
Speaker 4: what you said. In relation to the flag, you know,
37:56
Speaker 4: we have a lot of respect for the indigenous flag
37:58
Speaker 4: and the torrestrailand the flake, but it is not our
38:00
Speaker 4: national flag. And I think, well, why would we be
38:04
Speaker 4: ashamed of that? Why wouldn't we embrace it? And anyway,
38:09
Speaker 4: I think it's worth fighting for, worth standing up for.
38:12
Speaker 3: And it's a debate. I'm happy to have with the
38:14
Speaker 3: Prime Minister any day.
38:16
Speaker 2: One of the big platforms of the liberal parties is
38:20
Speaker 2: the individual but also free speech. Has that been under sieged?
38:24
Speaker 2: Do you feel that's been under siege in recent years?
38:27
Speaker 4: Yes, I do, because I think people have been guilted
38:30
Speaker 4: into submission, and I think there is a deliberate strategy.
38:35
Speaker 3: To do that.
38:35
Speaker 4: And I think people need to be able to speak
38:38
Speaker 4: their minds, whether I agree with them or disagree with them.
38:40
Speaker 3: If you want.
38:41
Speaker 4: To celebrate Australia Day's invasion day, we're live in the
38:44
Speaker 4: greatest democracy in the World's fine, But don't tell me
38:47
Speaker 4: I can't celebrate Australia Day, or that I can't be
38:50
Speaker 4: proud of who we are as a people. And it
38:54
Speaker 4: cuts both ways, and it can't just be that the
38:57
Speaker 4: left can dominate. I mean you speak to university students
39:00
Speaker 4: and kids who can't, even if they disagree vehemently with
39:05
Speaker 4: the question that's being posed, can't submit that as their
39:10
Speaker 4: thesis or as their assignment because they know that they'll fail.
39:15
Speaker 3: And on university campus.
39:16
Speaker 4: Is the hypocrisy at schools and in workplaces where people
39:21
Speaker 4: are being told a particular version of history or how
39:25
Speaker 4: they should think and again, I just think people now
39:29
Speaker 4: are starting to push back more and more on that,
39:31
Speaker 4: and I think that's I think it's.
39:34
Speaker 2: Healthy some areas where people will want pushback. I know
39:38
Speaker 2: you know your daughters swimmer. I used to roll at UNI,
39:41
Speaker 2: but if I'd had to compete with biological men, I
39:44
Speaker 2: wouldn't have got to look in. I mean, surely it's
39:48
Speaker 2: not controversial to want to protect sport for women and girls.
39:52
Speaker 3: No, it's not.
39:53
Speaker 4: And again, I think it's one of those debates that
39:58
Speaker 4: we have to be honest in. It's not about discriminating
40:01
Speaker 4: against anyone, including young girls, and young girls want to
40:06
Speaker 4: be able to compete on a fair basis, and I
40:09
Speaker 4: think that is a perfectly reasonable position to hold.
40:13
Speaker 3: I think we.
40:15
Speaker 4: Again, I just don't believe in discriminating against anyone, not
40:19
Speaker 4: on the basis of anything. And for young girls not
40:23
Speaker 4: to be able to achieve their Olympic dream, their pathway
40:28
Speaker 4: to a World Cup, or to be displaced from a
40:32
Speaker 4: team because you know, somebody has a physiological advantage over them,
40:39
Speaker 4: I just don't think that is that's not in the
40:42
Speaker 4: spirit of sport.
40:43
Speaker 2: And also related, but a little bit different, the whole
40:46
Speaker 2: issue of gender treatment and young people. We've seen in
40:50
Speaker 2: the UK they've had a medical expert inquiry into the practices.
40:55
Speaker 2: They're now being banned for young people, children under the
40:58
Speaker 2: age of eighteen. There's real concerns out of Queensland in
41:02
Speaker 2: recent days, particularly that mums and dads were completely kept
41:06
Speaker 2: in the dark involving treatments and young people. Again, what's
41:12
Speaker 2: said to be scared of to have an inquiry, to
41:14
Speaker 2: talk to the experts, medical experts, people who know what
41:17
Speaker 2: they're talking about, get the evidence in and then go forward.
41:21
Speaker 4: Well again, I think there's respect for parents in this
41:25
Speaker 4: and if parents are being excluded from a discussion about
41:28
Speaker 4: the health needs of their child, something is seriously broken
41:33
Speaker 4: in the model. I think, as you've seen in Queensland
41:36
Speaker 4: there's the ability to respond and that might happen now
41:40
Speaker 4: in other jurisdictions as well as a huge debate in
41:43
Speaker 4: the United Kingdom as you know. But I think the
41:47
Speaker 4: individual needs to be treated with respect. I think the
41:49
Speaker 4: parents need to be treated with respect. We know that
41:53
Speaker 4: there are two sexes and we know that for many
41:57
Speaker 4: families for different reasons, this is a very confronting debate
42:03
Speaker 4: and we should as a liberal, I mean I respect somebody's.
42:06
Speaker 3: Privacy, their privacy, of.
42:08
Speaker 4: Their sexuality, of their situation, and that's paramount to me.
42:11
Speaker 4: But again we have to have a society which is
42:16
Speaker 4: respecting of parental rights and the rights of children, innocent
42:21
Speaker 4: children as well.
42:23
Speaker 2: Let's talk about cost of being nuclear energy, all of
42:25
Speaker 2: those things that we front and center in a number
42:27
Speaker 2: of weeks when we finally get into the official campaign.
42:30
Speaker 2: We're in the absolute unofficial at the moment. Winer has
42:33
Speaker 2: Australia had a ban on nuclear power for almost thirty
42:36
Speaker 2: years when the rest of the world's moving on.
42:39
Speaker 4: Well, largely because coal was so cheap and in such abundance,
42:43
Speaker 4: and if you look back to the debates around sort
42:45
Speaker 4: of the fifties and sixties, that was part of the logic.
42:49
Speaker 4: And like it's been quite a fascinating discussion in our
42:55
Speaker 4: country in relation to UCUST first of all the nuclear
42:59
Speaker 4: propelled submarine and then the debate as we've taken it
43:02
Speaker 4: in relation to a civil industry. I didn't think the
43:06
Speaker 4: debate was possible here without the decision that we took
43:11
Speaker 4: on orcus So when the Prime Minister, to his credit
43:14
Speaker 4: as then Opposition leader, signed up to the deal that
43:17
Speaker 4: we had done with the US and the UK, it
43:20
Speaker 4: was obvious that there were no concerns about safety.
43:23
Speaker 3: That to me signaled that we could have the debate,
43:26
Speaker 3: and that we should have the debate.
43:27
Speaker 4: I advocated with Scott Morrison when he was Prime Minister
43:30
Speaker 4: that we should start the debate about nuclear.
43:33
Speaker 3: He looked at it very.
43:34
Speaker 4: Closely and for the right reasons, I think at the
43:37
Speaker 4: time decided not to proceed with it, and I respect that,
43:41
Speaker 4: but I thought the time was right and looking at
43:44
Speaker 4: it intellectually in terms of what is the best option
43:47
Speaker 4: for base load power in our country, How do we
43:49
Speaker 4: keep stability and the energy supply, How can we have
43:54
Speaker 4: downward pressure on prices, how can we decarbonize?
43:58
Speaker 3: All of that led to only.
43:59
Speaker 1: One industry, inebology.
44:02
Speaker 4: Industry manufacturing in this country is done. If we're having
44:06
Speaker 4: smelters and heavy energy user industries relying on intermittent power,
44:12
Speaker 4: it won't work. It's reliable, it's zero emissions, and it's cheaper.
44:17
Speaker 4: We're paying three times the cost of electricity in this
44:20
Speaker 4: country compared to say Tennessee or Ontario where they do
44:23
Speaker 4: have nuclear, and as Dendi Price pointed out in his
44:27
Speaker 4: report from Frontier Economics, our energy policy with a transition
44:31
Speaker 4: to nuclear is forty four percent cheaper than what Labour's
44:35
Speaker 4: got on the table with their renewables only policy.
44:37
Speaker 3: Do you know to this.
44:37
Speaker 4: Day the Labor Party, with all of the resources of
44:40
Speaker 4: Treasury and Finance and the Energy Department, have never punched
44:45
Speaker 4: a hole in the Frontier Economics report. So forty four
44:48
Speaker 4: percent cheaper under the Coalition compared to Labor. That's an
44:51
Speaker 4: environment where business will invest, and it's an environment where
44:54
Speaker 4: families can afford to pay their power bills, and it's
44:57
Speaker 4: an environment that will attract global invents, including data centers.
45:01
Speaker 2: I've been on the road the last couple of weeks
45:03
Speaker 2: out in the Malley and I have seen the human
45:06
Speaker 2: face of Labour's renewables only policy. I'm not against renewables,
45:12
Speaker 2: but if we think that is the only way to
45:14
Speaker 2: power Australia into the future, that we're kidding ourselves.
45:16
Speaker 1: And the loss of arable farming land.
45:20
Speaker 2: We don't have a lot of arable farming land in
45:21
Speaker 2: this country, but the loss of it is quite significant.
45:24
Speaker 2: If we are serious, If the Green Left US serious
45:27
Speaker 2: about cutting emissions, nuclear has to be in the mix
45:32
Speaker 2: exactly right.
45:33
Speaker 4: And if you look at whether debates now morphed in
45:36
Speaker 4: the United States and what's happening in Europe.
45:40
Speaker 3: People are boiling this cattom. I have a business approach
45:42
Speaker 3: to it.
45:43
Speaker 4: I want to, in a country with an abundance of
45:45
Speaker 4: natural resource, deliver reliable energies. I say, cheap energy and decarbonize.
45:50
Speaker 4: And if you look at that, putting a wind turbine
45:54
Speaker 4: into the ocean bed with a lifespan of nineteen years,
45:59
Speaker 4: or installing a nuclear energy zero emissions plant with an
46:06
Speaker 4: eighty to one hundred year lifespan, where you.
46:07
Speaker 1: Can the existing infrastructure.
46:10
Speaker 4: Distributing the energy created over the existing poles and wires,
46:13
Speaker 4: not building twenty eight thousand new poles and wires, wires
46:17
Speaker 4: coming up through sand dunes, through indigenous land, through wetlands.
46:22
Speaker 4: No other development could take place in any of those settings.
46:26
Speaker 4: And yet somehow the environmentalists discard any concern for the environment.
46:31
Speaker 4: It's driven by emotion, not reality, and there's no.
46:35
Speaker 3: Regard for cost.
46:37
Speaker 4: Ultimately, we have to find the cheapest cost for family
46:40
Speaker 4: who can't afford the indulgence of Chris Bowen and Anthony
46:43
Speaker 4: Albanesi and others. And when you look at it objectively,
46:48
Speaker 4: as nineteen of the top twenty economies in the world
46:51
Speaker 4: have done they've signed up to nuclear or they've already
46:55
Speaker 4: got nuclear ASTRAI as the only outlier. And why because
46:59
Speaker 4: the Labor Party, unlike the Labor Party in the United Kingdom,
47:03
Speaker 4: I think, is taking a feeble approach. I think somebody
47:06
Speaker 4: like Peter melanowskis the South Australian Labor Premier, will embrace
47:09
Speaker 4: from day one what we have on the table in
47:12
Speaker 4: relation to nuclear. I predict that there'll be a bipartisan
47:16
Speaker 4: position in relation to nuclear over the course of the
47:19
Speaker 4: next decade because they're going to be mugged by the
47:21
Speaker 4: reality the green hydrogen dream is just that it's not
47:26
Speaker 4: going to work and it's not going to be commercialized.
47:29
Speaker 2: We were due in February to get the twenty thirty
47:32
Speaker 2: five targets. Now, obviously they're going to be deeper. They're
47:35
Speaker 2: going to start to get into agriculture. They're going to
47:37
Speaker 2: start to hit transport, particularly the cars we drive on
47:40
Speaker 2: the road. But the government's pushed off announcing these targets
47:44
Speaker 2: and it doesn't look likely that we'll see them before
47:48
Speaker 2: they expect us to vote.
47:49
Speaker 1: What's going on here?
47:50
Speaker 3: It was due bi February.
47:52
Speaker 4: In any normal circumstance, the government would have had the
47:54
Speaker 4: report out and detailed what it is they're signing up to.
47:58
Speaker 3: They haven't.
47:59
Speaker 4: Why because they know that, as you point out, there
48:02
Speaker 4: are deeper cuts, there will be pressure on the national herd,
48:08
Speaker 4: the agricultural industry is going to be impacted, Electricity prices
48:13
Speaker 4: are going to go up further, and the government doesn't
48:16
Speaker 4: want to talk about that before an election. If it's
48:18
Speaker 4: a good story to tell, why not put it out there.
48:20
Speaker 4: I think that's why they're keeping it from the Australian people.
48:23
Speaker 4: And if they've got a secret plan which ultimately drives
48:27
Speaker 4: up electricity costs, they should be telling people before they vote.
48:31
Speaker 2: Over the summer, I was did a lot of sort
48:32
Speaker 2: of marginal seek communities and a couple of times I
48:36
Speaker 2: was at the supermarket and I watched people put stuff
48:41
Speaker 2: back on the shelf or leave it and not be
48:43
Speaker 2: able to afford it.
48:47
Speaker 1: They're really doing it tough.
48:49
Speaker 4: I think that's right, and I think people can sense
48:51
Speaker 4: that as well. I think they sense it in the
48:55
Speaker 4: Prime Minister's voice when he's talking about different issues. He's
49:00
Speaker 4: talking about everything but those issues which are relevant to
49:03
Speaker 4: them and he doesn't understand that workers are struggling, that
49:06
Speaker 4: families are struggling. And as you point out, and I
49:09
Speaker 4: was at an IgA the other day, people are making
49:13
Speaker 4: a bee line for cheaper cuts of meat or no
49:16
Speaker 4: meat at all, and chickens too expensive. So people are
49:20
Speaker 4: going to rice and to pastor and people are cutting
49:24
Speaker 4: back wherever they can. And I don't think that commutes
49:27
Speaker 4: in the Prime Minister's brain because Prime Minister has gone
49:29
Speaker 4: from university into the Labor Party and the union movement,
49:33
Speaker 4: where he's had a company car his whole life. He's
49:37
Speaker 4: had the union credit card to pay for meals and
49:40
Speaker 4: to pay for expenses. He's been on a parliamentarian salary
49:44
Speaker 4: for a long period of time, and he hasn't He's
49:49
Speaker 4: led a very different life to a lot of those people,
49:51
Speaker 4: not the case in the early formative years. And I
49:53
Speaker 4: respect that, but he's you know, I think I think
49:57
Speaker 4: he's lost touch with the average Australian.
50:00
Speaker 2: If you get there, you're going to inherit a mess.
50:04
Speaker 1: Are you ready for that?
50:05
Speaker 3: Absolutely? And I think a couple of points.
50:08
Speaker 4: I mean, one is the experience that I have and
50:11
Speaker 4: the experience that my colleagues and your colleagues around me
50:14
Speaker 4: have I think we've demonstrated in opposition to be a
50:16
Speaker 4: credible alternative government, and we have done the policy work
50:20
Speaker 4: to come up with the responses. We've got the handbrake
50:25
Speaker 4: on and there's a lot that we need to do
50:28
Speaker 4: in the economy to liberate that and to get more
50:31
Speaker 4: investment flowing, more jobs, more wealth creation, and talk more
50:35
Speaker 4: positively about our prospects.
50:37
Speaker 3: And I really think that we can.
50:40
Speaker 4: Achieve great success in government, but we've got a lot
50:43
Speaker 4: of work to do.
50:44
Speaker 2: How have the Greens changed politics in your two decades
50:49
Speaker 2: in Canberra?
50:51
Speaker 3: Well, when we were.
50:51
Speaker 4: Brought up politically by John Howard, it was always the
50:55
Speaker 4: labor parties the political enemy, not the Greens. Forget about them,
50:59
Speaker 4: there a fringe party. Well now they're a double digit
51:04
Speaker 4: party in many key seats and they have built up
51:09
Speaker 4: quite cleverly an air of legitimacy where there is none,
51:14
Speaker 4: and they have branded themselves in a way that superficially
51:18
Speaker 4: looks appealing to a younger audience and to people who
51:22
Speaker 4: are disaffected with both major parties, and people have parked
51:26
Speaker 4: their vote increasingly with the Greens.
51:28
Speaker 3: But it's all a fraud.
51:30
Speaker 4: They're modern day communists and people with views diametrically opposed
51:36
Speaker 4: to many of their supporters. Adam Bant is a radical
51:40
Speaker 4: and has no place in leading a political party in
51:45
Speaker 4: our country. The more people can critique what's on offer.
51:50
Speaker 4: And do I really agree with the legalization of drugs?
51:54
Speaker 4: Do I really agree with the defunding of police?
51:56
Speaker 3: Do I really agree with.
51:59
Speaker 4: The the defacing of war memorials and that being supported
52:04
Speaker 4: by the Greens? Do I really support what is in
52:07
Speaker 4: its modern form a racist and anti Semitic party. I
52:11
Speaker 4: think there are many Australians who would feel that they
52:14
Speaker 4: voted Greens at the last election. They're thinking now about
52:16
Speaker 4: voting for the Liberal Party for many reasons, and I'd
52:20
Speaker 4: encourage them to do so.
52:22
Speaker 2: People will be listening to you, you know, and they'll
52:24
Speaker 2: have formed a view twenty years in public life. Of
52:27
Speaker 2: course they'll have a view, but you know, some of
52:30
Speaker 2: a bricklayer ends up a cop, runs through a marginal
52:34
Speaker 2: seat and wins, stays connected to his mates in his community.
52:38
Speaker 2: He's got a son who's a chippy, you know, openly
52:42
Speaker 2: says we didn't have a lot of money as kids
52:45
Speaker 2: growing up.
52:45
Speaker 1: But we had good values.
52:47
Speaker 2: You could just as easily have been a member of
52:52
Speaker 2: Parliament for a Bob Hawk Labor Party. That Labor Party,
52:57
Speaker 2: the Labor Party of the right, feels like it's long gone.
53:01
Speaker 3: I agree with that.
53:02
Speaker 4: I think the right has been hollowed out and the
53:05
Speaker 4: great right figures of the Labor Party are missing in
53:09
Speaker 4: this generation. And to the extent that they exist, I
53:12
Speaker 4: think they've all been silenced. And I think the Penny
53:14
Speaker 4: Wongs and the Anthony Alberaneze is the hard left of
53:17
Speaker 4: the Labor Party has triumphed.
53:19
Speaker 3: And it's why.
53:23
Speaker 1: The tradees should feel at home with you.
53:25
Speaker 4: Tradees find a natural home with the Liberal Party, not
53:28
Speaker 4: just because of my own background and family experience, but
53:32
Speaker 4: because where for aspiration? Wherefore supporting people who work hard
53:38
Speaker 4: and want to retain more of their money, wherefore creating
53:41
Speaker 4: a business environment where your business can thrive. The brickie
53:46
Speaker 4: or the policeman or the chippy is not getting pre
53:50
Speaker 4: selected in the modern Labor Party. The state secretary is
53:54
Speaker 4: of the local union and the boss who's involved in
54:02
Speaker 4: the superindustry fun But it's a very different beast. And
54:05
Speaker 4: again I think people are really questioning at the moment.
54:10
Speaker 4: You know, my parents and grandparents voted for the Labor Party,
54:12
Speaker 4: but I just don't think it's for me anymore. And
54:15
Speaker 4: I think we're attracting those people.
54:17
Speaker 1: I feel like you're the I guess the closest.
54:22
Speaker 2: Resetting of the Mensian Party leader back truly to the
54:28
Speaker 2: forgotten people.
54:29
Speaker 4: I want to liberate those people, and I want to
54:31
Speaker 4: allow them to do what they do best, and that
54:34
Speaker 4: is grow the economy and grow the opportunities for families
54:38
Speaker 4: to get a good job and pay their house off
54:40
Speaker 4: and put their kids through school.
54:42
Speaker 3: And to me, that's important.
54:44
Speaker 4: And as it was a forgotten generation for Mensis, and
54:49
Speaker 4: as it was in ninety six for the Howard Battler's
54:52
Speaker 4: to find a home, I've got a.
54:54
Speaker 2: Bit of an insight into the pace and an opposition
54:56
Speaker 2: lead runs down sort of thing, what's your working day
54:59
Speaker 2: look like?
55:00
Speaker 4: It starts pretty early, and I generally try and do
55:03
Speaker 4: some exercise, you know, first up sort of at five o'clock.
55:06
Speaker 3: I try and get through the papers before.
55:07
Speaker 1: Then before five o'clock.
55:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and I.
55:12
Speaker 4: Like I like the exercise because you know, I probably
55:17
Speaker 4: eat and drink too much, so yeah, to the job, Well,
55:21
Speaker 4: yeah it is, but I just I just find as
55:22
Speaker 4: much as anything. It clears the mind and being able
55:25
Speaker 4: to go for a walk or run or go to
55:26
Speaker 4: the gym and.
55:28
Speaker 3: Just have a much sort of crispas start to the day.
55:31
Speaker 4: Now it's not for everyone and whatever, but for me
55:34
Speaker 4: that that works, and I think that's you know, then
55:40
Speaker 4: the start of a long day that finishes at sort
55:42
Speaker 4: of ten or eleven and we do you know, a
55:45
Speaker 4: couple of hundred flights a year, and and it's you know,
55:48
Speaker 4: the day sort of divided into fifteen minute blocks. So
55:52
Speaker 4: so yeah, and you have to then also get that
55:54
Speaker 4: family balance and date night and make sure you're there
55:57
Speaker 4: for a kid's footy and which they create game or
56:02
Speaker 4: be there.
56:02
Speaker 1: Has it been something you've made a real effort.
56:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, I knew what was important to my kids
56:08
Speaker 4: was that you were there on a Friday night for
56:10
Speaker 4: footage training or for you know, for swim club. And
56:13
Speaker 4: even as a minister, I mean I would always try,
56:16
Speaker 4: even traveling to the United States or Europe to be
56:19
Speaker 4: back for the weekend. That was critically important to me.
56:22
Speaker 4: But they had a lot of pride in knowing that
56:25
Speaker 4: you were there watching and you know that they mattered, yes,
56:28
Speaker 4: and that they made and so you know, I would
56:31
Speaker 4: have got to eight out of ten of their games,
56:32
Speaker 4: a nine out of ten or something, and I'm proud
56:35
Speaker 4: of that, and they still talk about that.
56:37
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite movie?
56:40
Speaker 4: That's a good question, I like, I mean, anything with
56:43
Speaker 4: Clinice would surprise me. Yeah.
56:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've enjoyed.
56:51
Speaker 4: I've enjoyed some of the you know, the sort of
56:53
Speaker 4: the series Yellowstone and stuff.
56:58
Speaker 1: A name like Dutton. If you if you if you're
57:00
Speaker 1: on the ranch, what character would you be.
57:03
Speaker 4: If I was on the ranch? I think I'd probably
57:06
Speaker 4: be John Dutton. Everyone wants to say Beth, of course.
57:09
Speaker 3: But.
57:11
Speaker 2: Everyone does the old butcher's boy. Have a favorite cut
57:15
Speaker 2: of steak?
57:17
Speaker 4: A favorite cut of steak could be a rip fill
57:18
Speaker 4: it so not not as dry as and I feel it,
57:21
Speaker 4: but or a porterhouse as well. I quite like a porthouse,
57:24
Speaker 4: but I'd probably.
57:25
Speaker 3: Order a rip filler.
57:27
Speaker 1: What makes you laugh?
57:30
Speaker 3: I have a pretty.
57:30
Speaker 4: Dry sense of humor, so you know, I enjoy different
57:36
Speaker 4: comedians and I enjoy sort of a light movie. I
57:43
Speaker 4: I love having a joke with, you know, over a
57:46
Speaker 4: beer with some mates who are politically incorrect and pretty
57:49
Speaker 4: down to earth, And yeah, I think in that environment
57:55
Speaker 4: it's it's probably more more the people who make you
57:57
Speaker 4: laugh than than anything. I think you've got to switch
58:02
Speaker 4: off from this job as well, and you need to
58:04
Speaker 4: find whatever that is for you to not be on
58:07
Speaker 4: twenty four to seven, because I think you could easily
58:10
Speaker 4: burn out if you did that.
58:11
Speaker 2: If you are elected Prime Minister, what sort of leader
58:14
Speaker 2: will you be and what sort of man do you
58:17
Speaker 2: want to be remembered for?
58:19
Speaker 3: Well.
58:19
Speaker 4: I want to provide stability for our country, which means
58:21
Speaker 4: that you need to make decisions in good times and
58:23
Speaker 4: bad and people need.
58:25
Speaker 3: A predictability about what it is.
58:27
Speaker 4: You believe in and an understanding of the reasons that
58:31
Speaker 4: you've made decisions. And I think I've demonstrated in a
58:34
Speaker 4: number of tough portfolios that I prepared to make the
58:37
Speaker 4: decisions that are right for our country.
58:39
Speaker 3: I think people voted for the.
58:41
Speaker 4: Prime Minister because he wasn't his opponent at the time,
58:45
Speaker 4: and people have got somebody very different than they'd voted for.
58:50
Speaker 4: I think having had the experience and being on the
58:52
Speaker 4: front bench for over twenty years in social, economic and
58:57
Speaker 4: national security portfolios gives skill set that few other people
59:01
Speaker 4: have been able.
59:02
Speaker 3: To bring to the job.
59:03
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton thank you.
59:04
Speaker 3: Thanks Peter, thank you.
59:07
Speaker 2: So that was Peter Dutton in conversation. There's a lot
59:10
Speaker 2: more to the man, isn't there than his opponents would
59:12
Speaker 2: have you believe.
59:14
Speaker 1: What's most apparent.
59:15
Speaker 2: To me is his strength of character and hearing him
59:20
Speaker 2: talk so warmly about his family. What's clear too was
59:25
Speaker 2: the determination all the way through his life to protect
59:28
Speaker 2: women and children and his love of his country.
59:32
Speaker 1: That was really clear.
59:34
Speaker 2: As you've often heard me say, every election matters, but
59:37
Speaker 2: given the current state of our nation culturally as well
59:41
Speaker 2: as economically, and all the global issues confronting the world,
59:46
Speaker 2: there's rarely been one that matters as much as this