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099 - Jeremy Balius - Creating The Right Channel Marketing Content · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of our channel and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My name is Efe and I'm excited to announce our special guest, Jeremy Baylis.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: How are you doing, Jeremy?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I'm doing very well.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Efe.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Thanks for being here.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Could you please give us an introduction?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Who are you and what do you do?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Sure, so my name is Jeremy.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm managing director and co-founder of a marketing agency called Filament, headquartered in Sydney, australia.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: We are working with B2B technology companies in a range of capacities, primarily to take products and services to market and help them expand their reach, while working in partnership with their vendors.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: So it's a lot of excitement, a lot of change all of the time and a lot of work, but we're having a great time.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So to make sure that I understand correctly so you kind of also help the vendors and also partners come up with their content and marketing strategy as well, right?
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we work with vendors and channel partners.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Either we're working with the channel partner directly or a vendor sends us into their partner base to support their partners.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Over time, as we specialized in B2B tech, we got really good at helping multiple brands tell a combined go-to-market story, blending multiple brands.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: It's really challenging for channel partners who are partnering with 10, 20 vendors figuring out how are they taking the product or the platform or the service that they're leveraging from their vendor and telling it tell it in their own brand.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So that's where we found WeFit is how do we help you expand your reach and generate demand and tell your story in a differentiated way while also still honoring the vendor on the back end and the technology that they've built to support their partners.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: So it's been a real interesting ride over the last couple of years to really focus in on that, but we feel it's benefiting partners to take such a strategic view to that storytelling.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that and, first of all, I think that those kind of campaigns, marketing content, for example, those better together stories, those alliance campaigns I think they're really valuable.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: But I also agree that most partners typically struggle coming up with that marketing content and creating that marketing strategy.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: So I think that it should either be supported it should definitely be supported by the vendors but also with like marketing agencies, like Filament as well.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's really hard.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: It's hard firstly from a capacity perspective because businesses are dealing with client service delivery first and foremost, and there's the challenges that they face with that, as well as the need to focus on revenue generating services.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: So, the ability to take a step back and figure out not just how do we tell a better together story, but how do we be better together you know that's something that's pretty rare out in partner land to think about.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: If I, as a partner, am positioning myself to a target audience or a specialization in a niche vertical, why should you come through us and why should you work with us in a way that is meaningfully different to what you can get in the market?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Because every vendor has multiple channel partners and so, um, thinking hard about how, how and why are we different?
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: And when you experience our services, what is it specifically that is?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: better.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: And and being able to not just articulate it but prove it is, is, is is a is a real challenge yeah, I fully agree and I cannot remember where I got this data from, but I will look into it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: But I think, like customers, when choosing channel partners, one of the most important things they look for is that specialization piece, right.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: So what is?
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the partner specialized and are they experienced in the field that we're working in?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So that's, that's one of the things that's really important, and our partners, first of all, should, you know, look into that, you know, like making themselves specialized in a specific niche but, also.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: The challenge is also you know how, how to go to market, how to market that as well.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: So I want to kind of talk about channel marketing content.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: So you know many vendors.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: They invest a lot of money in creating content, but the problem that I see often is that that content is very product oriented.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: So, for example, tag sheets, some content about the specifications of the product.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: So, based on your experience working with partners, do partners prefer to use those kinds of product-based content or do they prefer more like the solution-based content?
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: It's such a good question.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that this is the focus here.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: If we look at it from the vendor side, it's logical that they would set up some form of partner portal and that within that portal, they're developing out this library of assets.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: And you know, they, they truly do want to enable their partners in some way, and everyone's everyone's trying to win and they're trying to win together.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: And and so there's this, this, there's this, um, this build of assets, or this provision of marketing assets, that that there is a belief that this is going to help the partners, that if they just go and deploy this, that they'll win.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: By and large, what I've experienced personally in these vendor programs is a lot of that.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: As you mentioned, skews either very product-centric or it's tech-heavy, and I understand why.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: And I understand why there are many vendors where it is very challenging to cater for multiple regions globally and there is only a certain amount of capacity within a global marketing team to support that and they can't favor one over the other in the way that they've constructed it.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: So there tends to be this common denominator approach and so it is very straightforward to be able to develop product-centric content, because that's who they are and that's what they represent.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: They are a platform or they are a cloud or whatever it is that they're doing.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: So I understand why, but what happens many times in partner land is a lot of these service providers or integrators or value-added resellers.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: They're not selling products and they don't necessarily want to be known specifically for being a partner of that vendor.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: They're building their own business or they're advancing their own brand.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: And if they're specifically selling service, technically speaking, they're selling trust and they're building relationships and therefore they may not necessarily want to lead with product because they want their end user or their customer to not even necessarily care about which vendor or product it is.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: They just want them to trust that they've gone out and sourced whatever best in market, whatever best practice, whatever best solution.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: It is for them that this service provider or this integrator will come in and give them the best.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of this content may or may not get used because these service providers or these channel partners want to go to market to elicit trust.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Channel partners want to go to market to elicit trust and they want to build a meaningful relationship where they are either being looked to to solve significant problems or provide solutions to whatever compliance or regulatory pain points that the end user might have and and and not be.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Sold to you a spec sheet, as you say.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I fully agree.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: You mentioned something there.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: You mentioned that most vendors.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: It's kind of challenging to cater to the local regions, especially the global vendors where they work across the globe.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: So we also at Chanex we work with a lot of, you know, those big vendors such as, like you know, hpe, microsoft, logitech, those kinds of companies, and what we've seen is that they the marketing content, the channel marketing content, is often developed by marketing team based in the US, but a lot of the content.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: So the local regions they have to, you know, spend their own budgets to typically, you know, translate that content and localize that content.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: And by localization I also don't mean just translating, because I think localization is it's a bit more than just translating the words.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: But you know what we've seen also we are a Dutch-based company.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: In Europe especially, almost no partner wants to use content that is not in their local language.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: From your experience, how important is that localization of channel marketing content?
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: It's critical.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: If we think about the again, the reason why these circumstances occur is it's been based on capacity and budget and it makes sense for the centralization of the, the marketing asset development or the campaign, the white label, templated campaign development, for it to come from somewhere and then for that to get pushed out or published to the portal and therefore it becomes available globally.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: That makes sense.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: But part of the friction or the inhibitors for partners in other regions to use it is there is a broader view and I'm speaking specifically, being based in Asia Pacific, despite my passport saying that I'm American and my background saying that I was raised in Germany.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I think that sort of multicultural upbringing and background gives me an ability to talk openly about this, but with real empathy for businesses in regions.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: There is an abrasiveness, first off, that US content is being pushed into global regions.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: There is that just at a very basic level.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: But then, secondly, the way that businesses communicate and sell in the U S can and usually is very different to to, uh, other regions, and so that friction as well automatically then is a total shutdown of okay, we're not going to use this content at all because it's too American, you know, without necessarily thinking about the specifics of it, it's just it's too American, we're just not going to push it out.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I think there's a real cultural aspect to marketing and selling in regions that's really nuanced, that requires someone locally to understand the intent of the message and what was attempted to be communicated via the central campaign.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: But how do we translate that?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And by translate I don't necessarily mean into a language, I mean that's something we've done as well, as our services have been used in the broader Southeast Asia from Australia, um, but but but being really being really empathic and respectful culturally of how, how are we building trust within that culture and what is it that is important and what needs to be seen?
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And it requires some real open conversations and discussions and and hard thought to to maintain the intent, but but but have it be meaningfully at local regions.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: And that just doesn't happen for the most part.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: For the most part, it's US campaigns for everyone.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: And it's very, very difficult, therefore, for channel partners in Europe or South Africa or Southeast Asia or wherever to meaningfully adopt that and use that to generate created in the US comes off as too American, which is so funny because we also heard that feedback from some of our partners using channels.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: They did not want to push a specific content because they literally said, yeah, this sounds too American.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: So maybe not all Americans are aware of this, but there is a concept as to American, especially when it comes to Europe, like the things are culturally different so and I think it's very important that channel teams are aware of that.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sure the local teams are aware of that, but I think the global headquarters should also definitely be aware of that and understand the importance of why they should be localizing that content.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I want to dive into another topic.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about SMB partners, because that's kind of our main focus point in this podcast and also in Chenix as well.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Now what we see is that most SMB partners they really lack the marketing resources to the market and generate demand effectively.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I think the data was that the average partner has about 12 FTE and actually has zero dedicated marketing employees.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I think it takes about 49 employees before they hire a head of marketing.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So it's it's a really overlooked department, and I understand why they're technical people.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: That's what they focus on.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: It's it's.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: It's not what they're really, it's not their strong strong point.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: But I would like live love to hear your experience working with SMB partners and how can vendors support those SMB partners in helping them market and generate demand.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Again, I think this is such an amazing question because this cohort within a vendor program represents the larger, broader base within a channel partner program and they often don't get the attention they deserve, primarily because all of the love goes to the larger partners who are generating larger components of revenue and that, and that's fine.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: But I believe that there are ways to support these SMB partners that mean something for them.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: You know these, these, these people who founded these businesses, are hyper-intelligent.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: They are building services, for the most part, and or products that can be consumed, and they're they, they themselves, are selling them out to, to to smbs for the most part, or or they're moving upwards and servicing mid-tiers and and perhaps they've got some ambition to even move upwards from there.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: They they're winning that work by pitching, by getting referrals and by outbound selling.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And that is hard and it's expensive because there's a time cost attached to that and you can't accelerate that and you can't.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: You can't accelerate that and just hiring more sales people doesn't necessarily give you a compounding benefit.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And so vendors who start thinking about well, how do we meaningfully make a difference to SMB partners?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: In the first instance, they're switching on through channel marketing automation and they're they're looking at ways of okay, well, how do we give them the ability to continually communicate to market?
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: And some partners take it up and some don't, and there's issues with databases and there's discussions about whether they should only be talking about this vendor or that vendor, whether they should only be talking about this vendor or that vendor, and I think what winds up grinding things to a halt is they haven't communicated before on a broader level.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: They've not been consistent with it.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Perhaps they've been deploying once-off campaigns that have been really hard to get off the ground, because they're already busy in their day-to-day lives and so it's come at enormous effort or investment to bring somebody in to do this.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And because it's the first time, they don't necessarily have this avalanche of leads or they don't have this ROI that they can define, because it's lacked the continuity of compounding growth, of becoming known for something specific and having the ability to continually nurture and generate trust and demand over time, so that when somebody is ready to buy that you're front of mind.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: All of that doesn't happen, and so the vendors who are starting to think about their SMB partners and who are thinking about how do we meaningfully support them aren't able to switch on marketing development funds in a large enough capacity for each individual SMB partner, because it just doesn't make sense that each partner doesn't represent large enough of a revenue stream for the program.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: So, as they think about okay, well, how do we broaden our support and how do we scale that support?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: What we found to be tremendously effective is building core campaign of that product-centric content that vendors are are tackling.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: This is can can we centrally develop the core of a campaign and then provide it in a way where the partners can easily grab onto this but make it their own and put their spin on it or change it in a way that enables them to try to build a relationship, because we know, as a vendor, that we'll win in the long term if we start helping them now on a continual basis.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: But it's a lot of effort and it's hard to sustain it because you can't just build something and drop it onto your partner portal and thanks, job done, and drop it onto your partner portal and thanks, job done.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of support required, especially for partners that need more support than others, so it can get a little bit complex and complicated.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I fully agree, especially what you said about market development funds.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Especially in the SMB segment, we see that most partners don't really have the resources and the capacity to be able to, you know, take advantage of those funds.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: So what happens is that most of those funds are, you know, being unspent.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: But I fully agree that I think that the right approach is to really digitize and automate the process to make it as frictionless as possible for the partner, but, I think, definitely also give the ability to customize that content.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, partners should be able to customize and tailor the content for their own needs.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I fully agree with that.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: But also what I've seen happening, what I've seen, like the vendors that I think are doing this good, for example, like microsoft, cisco, they have a big smb focus.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: They also create marketing campaigns for partners that are focused on a specific, you know vertical.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I think that's also really important as well, right, because, uh, you know, we mentioned about the importance of localization.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: You know different countries, different cultures, they have different uh, you know ways of communicating, but also, like different verticals, they also have different pain points, different buyer personas.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: So I think that's also really important that, if you know, you can create a centralized content but also make it, you know, available in different niches, verticals and also, you know, send that content to the partners who are selling into that vertical.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I think that's also going to, you know, first of all, help the partners, you know, really take advantage of that marketing content and be able to generate demand.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: But also help them understand how to position a solution as well, Because I've been doing a lot of interviews with SMB partners trying to understand their marketing, also the partners that are using ChenX to understand how they're utilizing it, and one thing that I've noticed is that most of these partners really have trouble positioning a solution to a customer because they're very technical minded people and they really understand, you know, from a technical part, like they understand from numbers, why it's a good solution.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: But the buyer, the, especially in the smb mid market here they really want to understand how this product or solution is solving their business problems.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: But what I noticed is that these SMB partners it's a little bit challenging for them to do that value-based selling.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And what we also noticed is that this kind of marketing content is, you know this kind of marketing content is, you know, if it's?
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: If it's, you know that I think the importance of also creating a solution-based content is also.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: It helps the partner understand how to position that solution to a customer.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I agree and and experience the exact same that you do.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: It's these are engineers, they are thinking in a logical way, and a lot of what we're talking about here seems dark arts, black magic type, because it doesn't make sense.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: It's hey, you need what we have and we are selling it to you, so you should be buying.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Why aren't you buying?
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: And the what is, what is lacking, potentially, is thinking about a value proposition in a way that is not necessarily just, uh, solving a pain point, but but, but meaningfully solving that pain point for the people who are making the decision to buy.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And so, when you're talking about industry specialization and different types of pain points, that's where you're starting to move into that space of thinking about the leadership.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: The leadership team of a finance company has very different views about compliance, regulation, the needs of their customers.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: They have a different view of risk and just a different self-view to the IT manager of a school or a high school, and and and the principal of that high school is making decisions that that that come from a different space.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: And so so, firstly, the industry focused, the niche vertical focus content helps partners enormously because it helps them start thinking in a way that ultimately benefits them.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Firstly, it forces them to start segmenting their databases and their audiences, which is a good thing, because it's usually not segmented in a way that is beneficial to them.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: It starts forcing them to think about their prospects and their opportunities in a way that takes them out of here's what we're selling and into a space of.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: This is the day-to-day life that these people are living.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: That these people are living, and if they realize that they could be removing this friction point, it would actually free them up to do this, and so can we talk about those friction points first before going in and selling our services, whether it's the value-based selling that you're talking about, whether it's solution-based selling or whatever you want to talk about.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I think it's just taking your step and helping them look into a space of we are able to mean something to people, but we need to speak to them in a way that they want to be spoken to and in a way that they are understanding, and so that niche, vertical, specific content is tremendously powerful as a result.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that also it's really important for partners to start developing that focus on a niche vertical or a niche customer segment, because I think that's how you get to the next level.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Because in the last time when I was having a chat with jay mcbain, we kind of talked about this and he mentioned that there are a lot of partners who are stuck in that.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: You know, 2 million revenue, 8 to 12 fde, and it's hard to get to the next step.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: And I think that you get to the next step by developing that, um, like a good go-to-market strategy and kind of really focusing down, doubling down on a specific market or niche and really understanding who you're targeting.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's how you kind of grow as a partner.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I agree it makes absolute strategic sense.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: It's something we did as an agency when we doubled down on B2B, tech and and, and let go of pursuing a couple other verticals that we were specialized in as well and manufacturing and distribution and import, export and so on and just double down.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: It is really hard to do.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Firstly, because a lot of SMB partners have a view that their perfect buyer persona or their ideal client profile is anyone who will buy from them and that's that's it.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: It's a hey, if you're, if you're ready to buy, I want to sell to you.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Not fully considering the fact that that openness or that breadth of opportunity actually is a disservice to your strategy, because if you're trying to reach everyone, you don't really reach anyone at all because you're spread too thinly, you're not able to focus your attention, you're not able to focus your budget, investment or your couple of verticals.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Just gives you that focus and it narrows things down, update your value proposition and clarify your pursuits, because you're not trying to just catch anyone who would possibly be interested anywhere and in any vertical, but give you the ability to be the go-to expert in a particular industry.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I fully agree with you, Jeremy.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Well, this was a pleasure, Jeremy.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Before I let you go, I have one last question for you.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: We always like to ask our guests to invite the next guest on the podcast.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Who do you think we should have next?
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Well, you've mentioned him already by name and I saw that he hasn't been a guest yet.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: You absolutely have to get Jay McBain on your podcast.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Your podcast, the, the expertise he brings, the, the data sets that he brings, the.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: The high level visibility of seeing movement across the channel and across the ecosystems brings so much value to partners.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Um, if you can get jay mcbain on the show, you absolutely should well, yeah, jay, if you're listening, I'll be sending you a message.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, jay always has some data to prove his points, which I love about him, but I think that he will be an excellent guest on the podcast as well.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for listening.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you, jeremy, for joining us.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: For those who are listening, I will put Jeremy's LinkedIn in the description.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Go reach out to him to learn more about Filament in the description Go reach out to him to learn more about Filament.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Go reach out to him to learn about.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: You know what he's working on and see you in the next episode.