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Resource Report - 26 Community Mediation Center of Centralia · Resource Report

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Hello and welcome to Resource Report, where we
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share with you important information about local
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nonprofits and resource organizations that support
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the community we share, produced by Pathways
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to Agency. I am your host, Rainmaker. Today's
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guest is the Executive Director of the Centralia
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location of the Community Mediation Center. I
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sat down with Laura Height in her office on location.
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Here's Laura. I am here at the Community Mediation
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Center located in Centralia, Washington with
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Laura Hight, Executive Director. Hi there. How
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are you doing, Laura? Very good. Thank you. Oh,
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wonderful. Can you reintroduce yourself, your
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position, and how did you come to be here? Sure.
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Yes. Thanks for having me, first of all. I have
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been with the Mediation Center for four and a
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half years. And I've been the executive director
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for about a year and a half. My background is
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actually in restaurant and retail management.
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And so not a mediation background at all. But
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I took the training course back in 2021 and just
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absolutely fell in love with mediation in general,
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abandoned my previous career and decided to jump
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ship and come here instead. And I have never
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looked back. That's awesome. Hey, let me tell
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you, I have been in retail for 10 years. I have
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been in the restaurant industry for maybe about
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10 years. I know. Yes, it does. Some mediation
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skills from that job. Yes, I think that is what
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the training really kind of woke up in me is
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that this is something that both as a parent
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and as a manager, I've been doing mediation for
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years. And this just kind of put some. polishing
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notes on some of those things that I've been
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doing, and I really enjoy it. That's awesome.
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Thank you. Can you share what the Community Mediation
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Center is about? Yes. So very, very brief history.
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The Community Mediation Center has been around
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since 1993. And it was started by a group of
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concerned individuals who said there's a lot
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of cases showing up in court that could probably
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be resolved somewhere else outside of court with
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a little extra help. So they kind of banded together
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and decided that they would start a volunteer
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organization. It's gone through many names, but
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I believe it started as the Community Mediation
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Center and it's come back to that now. And it
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was really people who had... the compassion for
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their neighbors and the skills to help them work
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through their disputes to help them stay out
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of the court system with things like parenting
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plans and divorces and consumer merchant issues.
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So that's kind of the roots of where it started.
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And we do a lot of what you would consider family
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law cases. So when you ask what we do day in
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and day out, I would say we do a lot of parenting
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plans and divorces. And while we don't do the
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legal side of that where we help people fill
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out the paperwork, we help people sort out their
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issues and then they can put that down on a form
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and take it to the court. So we help them with
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the nitty gritty. And we do other things as well,
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which I can get into, but mostly parenting plans
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and divorces. That's wonderful. That's so efficient.
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It is definitely something that when folks hear
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about us, they say, oh, I wish you'd been around
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when I was going through my divorce or when I
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was working on my parenting plan. It is such
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a less painful process than court. I really am
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a huge advocate for it. Whether or not it's through
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our center, it's a huge benefit to the community
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to be able to kind of resolve your own issues
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and stay out of court, time -saving, money -saving.
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You get to be the one to decide what your resolution
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is rather than a judge telling you what to do,
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which I don't think anybody really likes. Absolutely.
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Yeah. Y 'all are located here in Centralia, but
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do you have other locations? We do. So we also
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serve, so we serve Lewis County and then we also
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serve Cowlitz County. We have a physical office
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in both places. So our office here is in downtown
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Centralia and we have an office in downtown Longview.
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We've only been down there for, I want to say,
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just about four years, about the same length
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of time that I've been here. And so we do the
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same cases. We do parenting plans and divorces
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down there. We've been serving Cowlitz County
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since our inception in 1993. But sometimes it's
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just so hard to not have a physical location
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that a few years ago we said, let's just open
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a brick and mortar and make sure that we're available
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for walk -ins. And it's been a really great decision.
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We've had a lot of folks just pop in and find
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out what we're about. And that's been a really
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good change. So I'm hoping that that continues
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for another 30 years. Wonderful. Oh, that's so
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convenient. There is another kind of place that
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does something like this in Thurston County,
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the Dispute Resolution Center. Now, y 'all are
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not connected at all, or is there some connection?
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There is some connection. That's a great question.
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So out of the 39 counties in Washington state,
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there is a Dispute Resolution Center, which is
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kind of our generic term that serves every one
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of those counties. So there's 21 of us, and we
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are kind of sister organizations with the DRC
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of Thurston County. We are a part of a larger
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organization called Resolution Washington, and
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they are the statewide... um organization that
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helps us you know you know lobby for tax dollars
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if we need to get those it helps us with our
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statewide messaging our statewide training and
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our standards to make sure that we're all operating
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on a similar level and providing the same high
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quality of service everywhere so while each center
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is its own individual business with its own staff
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and its own director. We do all kind of answer
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to that higher power across the state, which
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I think is a huge benefit. It gives us a lot
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of continuity and it helps us pull great ideas
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from. Other organizations, if they have a program
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that's really successful, we don't have to reinvent
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the wheel. We can call them up and say, hey,
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can you share your curriculum? Can you share
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your successes? And if we find that that's an
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opportunity in our county, we can kind of, you
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know, beg, borrow and steal some of their things
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and create it here as well. So overall, it's
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been a great thing. That is very good to know
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and very useful, too. Like if you have someone
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in another county, but they're dealing with an
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issue that, in part, may have something to do with
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something going on in another county. And maybe
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the rules are different across counties. Y 'all
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can connect and collaborate about that much easier.
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Absolutely. There's even Resolution Oregon. So
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if we have people down in Rainier or Portland
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who are dealing with things, there's quite a
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few. There's Resolution Virginia, Resolution
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Ohio. So it's not in all of the states yet, but
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there's usually a dispute resolution center near
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to you. And we all communicate very well and
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work together. So if, you know, someone's up
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in Thurston County, we'll point them in that
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direction and they'll be met with open arms up
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there. Oh, that's wonderful. So let's talk about
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those services. Sure. So like I said before,
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we do a lot of parenting plans and divorces,
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and that's not the case for every center. Some
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cases do a lot more landlord -tenant issues.
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It just kind of depends on the demographics and
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the makeup and the rural versus urban of each
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county. Like King County, obviously, they do
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a lot more landlord -tenant issues than we might
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do in Lewis County. But that is a service that
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we offer as well. So if you are a landlord and
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you're having issues, collecting rent or you
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have some renters who, you know, have lease violations
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and you're not sure how to approach them or work
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that out. Or if you're a renter and your landlord
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isn't repairing things or, you know, you have
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some questions about your rental agreement and
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you're not sure who to turn to, you can't afford
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an attorney, you can come talk to us and we can
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help establish those lines of communication.
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And we have a lot of experience with the kind
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of local landlord tenant rules and laws, and
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we can kind of help you navigate that in a less
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adversarial way. for $150 as opposed to hundreds
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or thousands that you might pay an attorney.
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So that's definitely been a big one since COVID.
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And there have been a lot of issues that have
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come up with very unique renting situations as
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people have kind of flexed and moved around.
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And of course, the housing market is challenging
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as always. That's definitely an arm of our organization
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that we're going to see growing a lot more in
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the future. Awesome. And then you also have,
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like, this one's new on your website, 90 -minute
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Conflict Workshops. Yes. So we love conflict,
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right? I mean, that's our staff and volunteers...
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That's our job security is that people have conflict
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when they work and live with each other. However,
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when people come to mediation, we are usually
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responding to a crisis that has already happened.
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We are helping people kind of pick up the pieces
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after things have already gone off the rails.
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And so we said, why don't we try and get ahead
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of this a little bit more and put some what do
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they call it, preventive medicine out there for
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the community. So a lot of DRCs around the state
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have really strong training programs, and we
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have historically not been one of those, and
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we want to build that arm of our organization
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up. So 90 minutes is about as long as we can
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keep anyone's attention, or at least that's as
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long as my attention span lasts usually. So what
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we have done is we kind of took some of the greatest
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hits of the issues that we see come up in mediation.
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Where does it go wrong? What do people wish they
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knew that would have kept them out of mediation?
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And we kind of broke it down into half a dozen
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mini lessons. You know, one is how to deal with
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an angry person and de -escalate. You know, de
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-escalation is a huge word that gets thrown around
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from the classroom to the police force to, you
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know, people in relationships. So we teach a
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30 -minute de -escalation training. You know,
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we teach one on the five different conflict styles.
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We teach one on just delivering bad news. And
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if you've worked in retail or anytime when you're
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in customer service, you have to deliver some
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bad news to people at some point. And that is
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intimidating. And we're not all wired to just
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be able to do that. So we have taken kind of,
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you know, six of those greatest hits, broken
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them down into 30 minute sections. And then we
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let folks kind of pick from those and put together
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their own 90 minute training of what they think
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their staff or their nonprofit would. the benefit
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from the most. And if there's one that they really
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want their staff trained on that they don't see
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on a list, we can customize and make it just
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for them. And it's been really successful. We've
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done this in both counties for about a year now,
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and we're looking forward to serving more. Where
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do you have those workshops? So we can have them
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here in our offices. We can usually fit, you
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know, In our Lewis County office, probably 8
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to 12 people comfortably with lots of room to
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move around. But a lot of folks like to have
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the training in their location. So we will usually
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travel to you. So we did a veterinary clinic
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not that long ago and, you know, they closed
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their office for lunch and we just did the training
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right there in their lobby. So usually folks
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find it a little bit more comfortable to do the
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training in their environs. So that's what we'll
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do. And if you're anywhere in Lewis County, we
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will travel to you. We'll bring all the supplies.
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It's very hands -on in each of our modules. We
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do a very brief lecture and then we do an interactive
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kind of activity to really kind of seal those
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lessons in because people sit around and listen
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all day long and we like them to kind of do.
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There's a lot of kinetic learners like myself
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out there. So all of our workshops are very hands
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-on and we leave you with the printed notes so
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you don't have to take any. And hopefully you
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can take those things and apply them directly
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to your workplace. Yeah. So it sounds like typically
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that would be businesses that would ask for a
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workshop to be held. Do you do that at schools
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at all or other organizations? We have done other
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nonprofits. So we've done a few nonprofits down
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in Cowlitz County. And I think we have one scheduled
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up here with the Salvation Army in Lewis County.
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We would do churches, we would do schools, any
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organization that's not a family would pretty
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much benefit from this. So yes, I'd say businesses
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and nonprofits are our main scope. But if you
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have a group of people that might not be getting
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along or want to do conflict better, we can certainly
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come to you. Okay. What does a workshop look
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like? So a workshop looks like, you know, we'll
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get a little information from you about You know,
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who's going to be there, what their positions
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are. And sometimes we like to have a few job
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descriptions about what the staff is dealing
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with. And if you have a lot of customer -focused
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issues, we like to know that ahead of time so
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we can make sure we're tailoring our training
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to some scenarios that are customer -based. If
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you are an internal organization and you really
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have some interpersonal conflict, we like to
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know a little bit about that so we can, you know,
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schedule our mark scenarios around. you know,
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those types of things. So we really want to make
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it customizable. And then we have a staff of
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trainers. There's four of us that will pop in,
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introduce ourselves. We pull up with a whiteboard
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and some handouts and we'll do a little training,
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do a little interactive activity. Sometimes we
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bring snacks and then we'll go over the materials
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that you've chosen. So we try and fit three distinct
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lessons into that 90 minute training and then
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we're out the door and you're on your way. Thank
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you. I want to clarify the scope and context
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of those conflict workshops. It sounds almost
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like you're teaching the group how to resolve
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conflicts within themselves. But what if there
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really isn't any and it's really just more for
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like, this is how we do it. for maybe our clients
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or more for each other it sounds like it could
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be variable depending on the circumstance yeah
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well i would say i would love to work in a place
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where there's no interpersonal conflict i have
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yet to find one um but there is a lot of like
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i said kind of that preventive training And there
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are all kinds of levels of conflict. There's
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internal conflict that you can have, and we have
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training on that. And there are so many different
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communication styles that we can bring you some
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information that can help prevent future conflict
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as well. Lots of people have a hard time, like
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I said, delivering bad news or hearing bad news.
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And sometimes when you work in a group, you're
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going to have to share some bad news with each
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other. And we can give you some tips, tricks
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on how best to do that and how to avoid a future
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conflict because it is just a part of the fabric
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of our lives. So it is inevitable, like death
15:10
and taxes, and we like to give people the tools
15:12
that they can tuck away for a rainy day when
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they do need to pull those out. That is, that's
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really, that's a little more clear. Thank you.
15:29
You are listening to Resource Report on KAOS
15:32
and my interview with Executive Director Laura
15:36
Hight of the Community Mediation Center in Centralia.
15:39
After a brief message, we'll be right back. Are
15:46
you having a conflict with a roommate, professor,
15:48
neighbor, co -worker, or partner? Do you want
15:51
to learn how to communicate more effectively
15:53
at the workplace, in class, and at home? The
15:56
CARE Network on the Evergreen Campus and the
15:58
Dispute Resolution Center in downtown Olympia
16:00
provide mediation, conflict resolution, and training
16:03
services to all South Sound residents, including
16:05
students, staff, faculty, and other state employees.
16:09
Evergreen Campus community members can contact
16:11
the CARE Network at 360 -867 -5291, by email
16:16
at carenetwork@evergreen.edu, or at their
16:20
office in the Public Services Center, Seminar
16:22
2 Building, Room E, 2129. For all other South
16:26
Sound residents, contact the Dispute Resolution
16:28
Center at 360 -956 -1155, or visit mediatethurston
16:34
.org. Welcome back to Resource Report. Let's
16:45
return to hear more from our guest, Laura Hiight
16:48
of the Community Mediation Center of Centralia.
16:59
And you also have Parent -Teen Mediations. Yes.
17:04
So this is another one that kind of sprung up
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from working with. people who are working on
17:10
their parenting plan and you know when your kids
17:12
are little they you know do what they're told
17:14
they like to follow the rules when they're six
17:15
and seven and eight it's pretty easy to kind
17:19
of manage them and then as they get older they
17:21
have more agency they have more ideas they want
17:23
to express themselves in different ways and I
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think all parents struggle with that transition
17:29
from kids who love to follow the rules to kids
17:32
who love to challenge the rules and so we have
17:34
found that sometimes including teens, and when
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I say that, I mean anyone from 12 to 20, in that
17:42
parenting plan, not in the creation of it, because
17:44
that's a legal document for adults, but in the
17:48
dispute resolution of when we have a parenting
17:50
plan and the parents love it but the kids don't
17:52
how are we going to navigate that and how are
17:54
we going to talk about these issues just because
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they're a minor just because they are you know
17:59
under their parents household doesn't mean that
18:00
they necessarily love all those rules so in certain
18:03
situations we've been able to bring teens into
18:06
that conversation and say you know tell me about
18:08
what you're experiencing at home tell me about
18:10
the boundaries that you want to establish tell
18:12
me about some of the rules that your parents
18:14
think are great that maybe you don't agree with
18:16
and how can we work together a little bit more
18:19
on a peer -to -peer level as these kids are getting
18:22
their own autonomy they're going to be adults
18:24
soon they're going to need to be able to negotiate
18:27
and advocate for themselves and they can really
18:29
start practicing that at home a lot of kids learn
18:32
that at their first job but we're thinking, you
18:34
know you can start that even earlier. So not all
18:37
cases are good for parenting mediation, but a
18:40
lot of them we find it's a huge relief for these
18:42
kids to be able to sit down and speak uninterrupted
18:46
to their parents. Sometimes we take that for
18:48
granted. A lot of kids don't get that opportunity.
18:51
So I'm looking forward to doing more of those
18:53
in the future. That's huge to feel heard like
18:56
that in the adult space. Yeah, I think it's at
18:59
any age, it's important to feel heard. And I
19:02
think a lot of times we see in our mediations.
19:04
People can kind of talk themselves down just
19:07
by being able to get things off their chest,
19:09
being able to finish a sentence that they haven't
19:11
been able to finish, even through tears or through
19:15
anger. Sometimes that can diffuse a lot and you
19:18
realize that your two positions are a lot closer
19:20
than you thought. once you kind of get everything
19:22
out on the table. And that's true for teens as
19:24
well as adults. For sure. So do you have a Workplace
19:27
Conflicts, Division of Property? Yeah. So we definitely
19:31
do workplace conflict. And that would be similar
19:33
to a mediation where we're responding to maybe
19:36
a couple of different departments that are not
19:37
getting along or a couple of different people
19:39
within a department that are not getting along.
19:41
Because just like our families, there is a specific
19:44
workplace dynamic and there's friction, there's
19:47
conflict. Just because you work with someone
19:48
for a long time doesn't mean you necessarily
19:50
get along with them sometimes it can be a difference
19:54
in work styles sometimes it can be a difference
19:56
in what everybody's having for lunch it doesn't
19:59
really matter but over time I mean the people
20:01
that we work with are kind of like our second
20:03
family and sometimes when things do not get resolved
20:06
they just tend to fester and tend to get worse
20:08
and that can lead to high turnover if you're
20:11
an employer and it can lead to really low job
20:13
satisfaction if you're getting up every day to
20:15
go to a place you don't want to go because you
20:17
have a conflict with the person sitting next
20:19
to you, we realize that can be as impactful as
20:22
a divorce or a parenting plan mediation. So we
20:25
can come in and work with groups of two up to
20:27
15 or 20. We've done colleges, we've done small
20:31
city governments, and we've done small businesses
20:34
here in town. People working together is just,
20:37
you're going to have conflict. So we can kind
20:39
of come in, listen to each side individually,
20:42
kind of parse out what the main issues are, and
20:44
then have everyone sit down and come up with
20:47
Kind of some new normals, some new working agreements
20:49
of, you know, here's what's bothering everyone
20:51
and can we get past it? And most of the time
20:54
people want to get past it. It's usually a miscommunication
20:57
or a misunderstanding. And we've been pleasantly
21:00
surprised at the outcomes for those. Oh, for
21:02
sure. You have some amazing testimonials there.
21:14
I love that. What are the most handled cases
21:17
you meet yet? What do you see the most? So I'll
21:21
kind of just stick with parenting plans to start.
21:23
And the issues that we see the most are when
21:27
two parents separate and they're operating fine
21:30
on their own. And then one of those or maybe
21:33
both of those. starts a relationship with a new
21:36
partner. And that can really change kind of the
21:39
values and the practices and the schedules of
21:41
the whole family and the kids get caught in the
21:43
middle. So that is definitely a catalyst for
21:45
people coming in and wanting to make changes
21:47
to their parenting plan. Maybe they're in a relationship
21:49
with someone who has kids of their own and they
21:51
want to make sure those plans align. That's definitely
21:54
something that we see a lot. So heads up that
21:57
if that's the situation you're in, you may want
21:59
to come and see us. Another one is just like
22:02
I said earlier, kids going from that elementary
22:04
school to middle school, high school age. The
22:07
parenting plan that you have when your kids are
22:09
young is really probably not going to work when
22:12
the kids are older. They're teens, they're driving,
22:14
they have social kind of pressures of their own.
22:17
And so I would say, you know, to parents out
22:20
there, you're probably going to have at least
22:22
three different iterations of your parenting
22:24
plan. And that's a good thing, because as you
22:26
change as individuals, your kids will also change.
22:30
the expectations that you have as a family, because
22:32
you really are still a family, those can change
22:35
as well. And so I would say that, you know, get
22:37
used to revisiting that every few years and saying,
22:39
does this parenting plan still work for our family?
22:41
And if it doesn't, don't be afraid to come sit
22:44
down and talk with us and change it. You'll be
22:45
glad you did it sooner rather than later and
22:48
waiting until everything, you know, goes off
22:50
the rails. For sure. Is there any problem that's
23:03
too small? Oh, no, there's no problem that's
23:06
too small. We've had people come in and talk
23:09
about, we've had people mediate about their pets
23:11
specifically through the divorce. We've had people
23:15
bring up Legos. We've had people bring up knitting
23:19
supplies. We've had people bring up everything,
23:21
whether it seems small to us, it's not small
23:26
to them. It's your life. It's your struggle that
23:30
you are faced with every day. And if you are
23:32
losing sleep, if you are upset about it, then
23:36
it's worth discussing. So I would say don't worry
23:38
about anything feeling too small. If it's bothering
23:41
you, it's not too small. Yeah, I ask specifically
23:44
because I feel like some people might be embarrassed
23:46
to come to you for like, I can't even think of
23:51
any good examples, but I think Legos sounds like
23:53
a good example of that. Which kid gets the Legos
23:59
when the parents separate and which kid goes
24:02
to live with the which parent? Exactly. Something
24:04
like that. Legos are a big deal, man. It is.
24:07
And they're not cheap either. So I understand
24:08
it's an investment by parents. But no, I would
24:10
say, you know, those smaller things are really
24:13
just the tip of the iceberg, to use an overused
24:16
metaphor. There are always things underneath
24:20
the topics that bring people to us. And something
24:23
that we've heard, you know, we've had cases recently
24:26
that they come in about a business deal that
24:28
gone wrong, and really it's about the apology
24:32
that they want to hear. Or really it's about
24:34
the fact that they felt taken for granted, or
24:36
the fact that they felt taken advantage of. And
24:38
yes, we're coming in to talk about the money,
24:40
we're coming in to talk about the business, but
24:42
really their feelings are hurt. And if you're
24:44
coming in about something small, like Legos,
24:46
maybe you're feeling unappreciated, maybe you're
24:48
feeling taken for granted. Those are not small
24:50
things. Those are not small feelings. If left
24:53
unattended, they will only grow. So think of
24:56
it as much as an emotional mediation as it is
24:58
about the practicality. For sure. For sure. Thank
25:02
you for that. Sure. Can you outline the process
25:16
that one goes through? They fill out. The form
25:21
online and then what? Definitely. So one of our
25:26
kind of foundational core beliefs is we want
25:30
to be accessible to everyone. And we want people
25:32
to be able to approach conflict in any way that
25:35
works for them. So you can walk into one of our
25:37
offices. You can call us up on the phone or you
25:40
can, like you mentioned. Click on our website
25:42
and submit a form that basically just says, here's
25:44
my name, here's my contact information, here's
25:47
what county I live in. You can leave a brief
25:49
description of your issue or you can just say,
25:50
please contact me. Someone from our office will
25:53
reach out to you. And every single one of our
25:55
staff members is a trained and practicing mediator.
25:59
So you're not going to get someone who doesn't
26:01
actively mediate. So they're going to be able
26:03
to answer your questions from firsthand information
26:05
and knowledge, which I think is a huge benefit.
26:07
You're going to be talking with a mediator when
26:08
you call. They will talk about your situation
26:11
and say, you know, what's going on. And you can
26:14
kind of download maybe five minutes worth of
26:16
your story, maybe 30 minutes worth of your story,
26:19
however long it takes. And we will decide then
26:23
if your case is something that we can mediate
26:25
every now and then. Specifically, if there's
26:27
some active domestic violence going on or if
26:30
there's, you know, a few other extenuating circumstances,
26:32
there's a few types of cases that we don't handle.
26:35
So we may say, you know, this is something that
26:37
you should seek legal advice before coming to
26:38
us. But most cases can be mediated. And so what
26:42
we'll do is we'll kind of talk about the process
26:45
and explain what mediation looks like to you,
26:47
answer any questions you have, and then we'll
26:50
ask, would you like us to reach out to the other
26:52
party? And if you say, okay, yeah, that sounds
26:54
good. I think I understand what I'm getting myself
26:56
into. This is a case that can be mediated. We
26:58
will then contact the other party with whatever
27:00
information you give us. So if you have a phone
27:02
number or an email address or even a physical
27:04
address, we can mail them a letter. And we'll
27:06
say, hey, we've been contacted by so -and -so
27:08
and they would like to mediate with you. We don't
27:10
go into any details about what you told us. We
27:12
just say, you know, is this something that you'd
27:14
like to mediate and give them the general topic.
27:16
You know, we're going to talk about a parenting
27:18
plan or talk about a car. And then we answer
27:21
all of that person's questions because a lot
27:23
of people have no idea when they're being asked
27:24
to mediate. What does that mean? You know, what
27:26
am I being asked to do? Is this an attorney?
27:28
And so we explain the whole process to the other
27:31
side so you don't have to and answer all their
27:33
questions. And if they say, Yeah, I don't know
27:36
if I'm going to agree, but sure, I'll sit down
27:38
and have the conversation and they agree to mediate.
27:41
Then we can move forward and we don't collect
27:43
any fees until that happens. So that's when we
27:45
would reach out back to you and say, OK, so we
27:47
reached out to the other party. We contacted
27:49
them. We explained what mediation is and they
27:52
would like to mediate because it's always voluntary.
27:55
And then that's when we would send a fee letter
27:57
out to both sides. And depending on the type
27:59
of case, we do try and keep our fees very, very
28:01
low. For a family parenting plan or divorce,
28:04
it's $250 for each party, and that pays for two
28:08
two -hour sessions. So you're getting four total
28:11
hours of mediation time for $250 each, which
28:14
I think holds up pretty well for attorney's fees,
28:16
locally at least. So we do try and keep it manageable.
28:19
And then we do have a sliding scale that we operate
28:23
on. So if you have limited ability to pay or
28:29
you have a lot of expenses and you're just not
28:31
in a place where you can afford $250, we have
28:33
a one -page, very brief application for those
28:37
reduced fees that you can fill out online or
28:38
you can fill out in our office. And we can reduce
28:41
that all the way down to zero. If you really
28:43
want to mediate and you have no means by which
28:45
to pay, we will absolutely allow you to mediate.
28:48
So we can take it all the way down to zero if
28:50
we need to. Yeah, the application for reduced
28:54
fee form looks pretty solid. There's a lot of
28:58
different things to mark off. It's collecting
29:01
your financial information and what kind of support
29:09
that you're already receiving and things like
29:13
that. It looks pretty good. This is all good
29:17
and confidential, safe format online. Absolutely.
29:21
Yeah. So confidentiality, we take very seriously.
29:23
You know, we're asking people to share things
29:25
that are very personal, both in the mediation
29:27
session and their financial information online.
29:29
So we make sure that that's absolutely confidential
29:31
and only handled by the people that need to know
29:34
it. Yeah. The question on the cost of services
29:38
page, the parent team, it says a 155 slash no
29:43
cost. Absolutely. So. So again, if there is absolutely
29:51
no ability to pay, we are going to offer our
29:53
services for free. However, a lot of people do
29:57
have the ability to pay, and we find that when
29:59
people are financially invested, they are also
30:02
emotionally and intellectually invested as well.
30:06
So we do feel like there is a value to our services,
30:09
and if people have the ability to pay, we like
30:10
to give them the opportunity to do so, to keep
30:13
us supported, keep our doors open for the people
30:15
that really can't. So what we like to do with
30:17
the parent -teen mediation is we're not going
30:19
to charge the teens for mediation. Most of them
30:21
don't have jobs or if they do, you know, those
30:22
dollars are very precious to them. However, most
30:25
of the parents do have that ability. So we'll,
30:28
you know, charge the parents $150, which is,
30:31
you know, pretty minimal. And then, you know,
30:33
we don't charge the teen anything and come in
30:35
and mediate for them. In the third column there,
30:48
there's three columns, the type of service, the
30:51
cost, and then how long the session is. And then
30:54
you have each parent or per person or per party
30:59
or per address. And so that slash no cost, that
31:04
signifies the teenager. Yes, we could probably
31:08
make that a little more clear on our website.
31:10
Okay, cool. And then the rest of that process.
31:23
So then the parties meet together with you guys.
31:26
So once everyone has paid their fees, whatever
31:29
that is deemed appropriate, then we schedule
31:31
the mediation. And typically from the time someone
31:34
contacts us to the time that people are sitting
31:36
down having a mediation, we try and keep that,
31:38
you know, within four to five weeks. If it's
31:42
an emergency situation, we can certainly make
31:44
that faster. But we find that about a month is
31:46
pretty typical. So we can do all of our services
31:49
through Zoom if we need to. We know Lewis County
31:51
is a very wide county. And so sometimes folks
31:53
are living, you know, way out in Raymond or something
31:57
like that or PL and they don't want to drive
31:59
all the way in or they can't drive all the way
32:00
in. We can do everything virtually as long as
32:02
you have Internet. Are you able to do over the
32:06
phone? We can do that as well. So we can do over
32:10
the phone mediation. Even if folks want to do
32:13
it by Zoom, but they don't have internet, they
32:14
can come into our office and mediate from here.
32:17
So sometimes we have parents living in Arizona
32:19
or California and we don't make them come all
32:22
the way up here. So, you know, you could come
32:23
sit in our office and Zoom to them. So we try
32:26
and make it as easy as possible for folks to
32:29
do that. But yes, we can do it over the phone.
32:31
So we'll schedule you for your mediation. And
32:34
then you'll come and sit down and either, you
32:36
know, screen to screen or face to face. You'll
32:38
mediate and the mediators will go over. The whole
32:41
process, they'll explain, you know, kind of the
32:43
ground rules. And that's where the two of you
32:45
talk with the guidance of the mediator and come
32:47
up with your own solutions. Sounds wonderful.
32:50
Sounds pretty easy. Sounds pretty easy. I imagine
32:54
sometimes it's not. Yes, it can certainly get
32:58
emotional in there. And sometimes we go three,
33:01
four or five sessions with folks because their
33:03
issues are complex. even if folks do not reach
33:08
agreement and they come in and they work hard
33:10
and they share their point of view and they go
33:12
back and forth and back and forth and they reach
33:15
no consensus, we generally find that that is
33:19
not wasted time because you know... more about
33:22
the other person's point of view than you did
33:24
before. You hopefully have felt heard and validated
33:27
by being able to get your point of view across.
33:29
And even if you don't reach resolution today,
33:32
sometimes a good night of rest and a cup of coffee
33:35
in the morning can help you see things more clearly.
33:37
Or even if you do continue on to court, you are
33:40
better prepared knowing the other person's point
33:43
of view and have said your piece. So we don't
33:46
find that mediation is ever wasted, even if it
33:48
is. difficult to get through. So I encourage
33:51
anyone to give it a shot, even if they think,
33:53
oh, there's no way this person's going to agree.
33:55
It still could be a valuable tool. For sure.
33:59
Has it ever happened that there's a repeat mediation
34:03
that we had this one session and now we got to
34:07
go back and do it again? Yeah, I would say a
34:09
lot of our family cases, so parenting or parenting
34:14
plan or divorces usually go to two sessions we
34:18
sometimes will assign some homework in that first
34:20
session a lot of times people will come in and
34:22
they realize out they're missing some information
34:24
that they need in order to make a good decision
34:26
so you know we give people a couple weeks to
34:29
go gather that information And then come back
34:31
together with all those details. So yeah, I think
34:34
coming back for that second session, which of
34:36
course is no additional charge that's included
34:38
in whatever fee you pay. So there's no pressure
34:40
to resolve things in that first session. You've
34:43
already paid for the second one. So give it a
34:46
break and come on back. Okay, that's really good
34:49
to know. And I was going to ask that actually.
34:51
And I see that some of them have two two -hour
34:56
sessions and some of them are one. two -hour
35:00
session so what what happens if you have like
35:04
the parent teen or the landlord tenant um which
35:08
are having like a one two -hour session what
35:12
if uh you've got to have more than one session
35:15
sure so in those typically we find that the issue
35:19
at hand can usually get resolved in 90 minutes
35:21
to two hours especially in landlord tenant issues
35:23
they can be pretty straightforward But if we
35:26
do need to go to another session, we can either
35:28
do that at no cost if there is no ability to
35:30
pay. The most we would ever charge for an additional
35:32
session would be $50. So if you really feel like,
35:35
I really want to come back and have another two
35:37
hours, you know, you're not going to be starting
35:39
the whole process over with another session.
35:41
You'd, you know, pay the $50 fee and get right
35:44
back in there. And you don't have to go to the
35:46
back of the line. You can, you know, reschedule
35:48
it at a time that's convenient for you. So we
35:50
really try and make it as affordable and easy
35:52
to do as possible. Oh, that's so good to know.
35:55
Thank you. So all of these different type of
36:11
consultations you have here tend to be You know,
36:18
we said what they are about. But have have you
36:22
ever had to mediate something with someone involving
36:27
other legal matters? That's a good question.
36:32
And yes, especially when there is a division
36:34
of property, there's a house that needs to be
36:36
sold or there's a. you know, property line infringement
36:40
or something. There's so many laws in our great
36:42
country that, you know, pretty much everything
36:44
you can sue over or there's a legal ramification,
36:48
contracts, things like that. So we do not practice
36:51
law and we make sure that people know that. We
36:53
are here to help folks come up with. a practical
36:56
solution, and we always recommend that people
36:58
get legal advice, whether they have a cousin
37:01
who's an attorney and they want to ask them a
37:03
question and that's their version of legal advice,
37:05
or they want to retain an attorney and pay all
37:08
the fees. There's also some free legal aid available
37:11
through some various avenues. I'm sure you're
37:13
aware of what's available. We do really recommend
37:17
that people seek legal advice because we do not
37:19
practice law and we want to make sure that if
37:21
people are going to be writing a legal agreement.
37:24
that looks good to them, that they get a second
37:26
set of eyes on it. We do feel like people should
37:29
have the agency and the autonomy to make decisions
37:31
for themselves. But we do live in a world that
37:34
has rules that sometimes we're unaware of. So
37:36
even if you have an agreement that looks really
37:38
solid to you, it doesn't hurt to take it and
37:40
have that second opinion and say, hey, let's
37:42
just hold up legally just in case, you know,
37:44
something goes wrong. So we would recommend that,
37:48
you know, people seek that advice. Yeah. I do
38:00
wonder, have y 'all had to deal with anything
38:04
involving ICE? No, we have not. So thankfully,
38:10
that is not something that we've had to deal
38:11
with. I hope we never do, but I don't think we're
38:16
not trained in immigration law or anything along
38:19
those lines. It's not legal. Yeah, no, I would...
38:24
I don't know if that's a great question, but
38:26
no, we haven't come up with anything yet. Yeah.
38:29
Previously, when I first asked about legal stuff,
38:33
there was someone who had an attorney through
38:40
the state, but that attorney was not actually
38:43
really supporting her in her case. And so I was
38:48
curious if a mediation of how can I resolve this
38:55
issue with my attorney who's not actually doing
38:58
their job? Is that something that kind of comes
39:01
a little... Mediating between the client and
39:04
the attorney, you mean? Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
39:06
Any two parties that want to walk in, we can
39:09
absolutely mediate something like that. The two
39:12
cornerstones of mediation that I think apply
39:15
to the situation that you just mentioned would
39:17
be balancing power. So a lot of times when there's
39:20
a dispute, one person will feel like they don't
39:23
have as much power as the other person. And that
39:25
could be maybe they make more money, maybe they
39:28
have a better education, maybe, you know, they're
39:30
older and wiser, whatever it is. There's usually
39:33
a perceived power imbalance, and sometimes there
39:36
can be an actual power imbalance. And in the
39:38
situation you're talking about where you have
39:40
someone who maybe, you know, has questionable
39:42
immigration status or has, you know, issues with
39:45
their... residency versus an attorney who may
39:48
have the perceived authority in this issue, there
39:50
could be a power imbalance. And that's where
39:53
the mediators can come in and help neutralize
39:55
that, where we try and make it an even playing
39:57
field. And I'm not going to go into all of the
39:59
different tactics that the mediators can employ,
40:02
but a balance of power is really important. And
40:06
then self -advocacy is important. We live in
40:10
a society where there's a lot of advocating for
40:15
others. And I think there is a huge place for
40:17
that, whether you are a victim, whether you are
40:20
struggling with any kind of issue, you want to
40:23
have an advocate, you want to have someone in
40:25
your corner. And that can be really difficult
40:27
when people want their mediator to be their advocate.
40:29
And it's one of the few places where we're not
40:31
supposed to advocate for you. You need to advocate
40:33
for yourself. And some people are not ready to
40:36
do that. Some people need an advocate, in which
40:39
case I would say you're not ready for mediation
40:40
yet, and that's okay. Um, but you have to be
40:44
able to speak your mind and speak up for yourself.
40:47
And sometimes once you balance that power, people
40:49
find that they really can't advocate for themselves.
40:52
And so, um, those are the, the two cornerstones
40:54
of mediation would be that neutrality and then
40:57
being able to self -advocate. Oh, I'm glad that
41:00
you brought up the word advocate because, um,
41:03
there are community Maybe for whatever, I'm imagining
41:13
a scenario and there's a lot of different scenarios.
41:17
But for an example, someone maybe has experienced
41:22
a lot of trauma and just is not in the space
41:26
where they can emotionally regulate themselves
41:28
and advocate for themselves. receive a service
41:32
from another organization to advocate, help them
41:35
advocate for themselves and come in and advocate
41:38
for them. Would you, would you mediate a situation
41:42
where someone brought in an advocate for themselves?
41:45
Absolutely. So yes, that has come up in multiple
41:48
scenarios and we absolutely can do that. We want
41:52
to make sure that the person who is an advocate
41:55
is a support person and not a spokesperson. So
41:58
they are welcome to either wait in the waiting
42:00
room. Sometimes people want to have them wait
42:02
in the car downstairs. It's the moral support.
42:04
If they want to be in the room with them, that's
42:06
absolutely fine, too. We try and give them the
42:08
least amount of support that they feel they need
42:11
because the self -advocacy is important. But
42:14
if you need someone sitting right there next
42:16
to you. holding your hand absolutely will allow
42:19
that to happen um we just need to make sure that
42:21
the other side is aware that that person is going
42:23
to be there and if they want to bring an advocate
42:25
they can that doesn't mean that you know you
42:27
bring a whole posse of people in we really want
42:30
to make sure that people understand that that
42:31
person is there to support you in you speaking
42:34
for yourself um and that's usually what happens
42:36
i don't think we've ever had um a situation like
42:40
that go awry it's usually really important that
42:42
that support person is there to give them that
42:45
physical and emotional mental support that they
42:48
need. And those mediations tend to go really
42:51
well. I like how you draw a clear line between
42:55
facilitation and advocating and what your role
42:59
is and what their role is. Yeah, and I hope so.
43:02
Sometimes it can be hard for people to hear that
43:04
because we live in a place where there's lots
43:05
of cheerleaders and lots of advocates, and I'm
43:07
all in favor of that. And sometimes when people
43:11
hire an attorney, your attorney works for you.
43:13
And as mediators, we don't necessarily work for
43:16
you. We're working for a resolution and we're
43:18
working for the two of you to come up with your
43:20
own solution. We don't get a bonus if you agree
43:24
or don't agree. It really is up to you. And sometimes
43:26
folks get in the room and they're not ready to
43:29
agree. And we, in good faith, can't keep the
43:31
conversation going. And sometimes we say, you
43:33
know what, I think you guys do need attorneys
43:35
or I think you need to take this somewhere else.
43:39
That's okay. Mediation is a good option, but
43:41
it's not the only option to resolve your issues.
43:42
For sure. You're an unbiased third party. That's
43:45
right. That's what we strive to be. That's great.
43:56
A large part. of being afraid in conflict is
44:01
the emotional dysregulation that comes with it.
44:04
Have you had to utilize tools and teach people
44:09
how to emotionally regulate themselves to be
44:12
able to move forward? Absolutely. And a big part
44:16
of our intake when we're getting to know people,
44:18
we just call it conflict coaching. Usually conflict
44:23
comes down to miscommunication or unmet expectations.
44:27
And a lot of people don't know what to expect
44:29
when they go into mediation. They don't know
44:31
if they're going to feel emotional. They don't
44:33
know if they're going to feel angry. And so we
44:37
will kind of prepare them by saying, here's what
44:38
it's going to be like. We can prep them with
44:40
some questions and say, you know, let's kind
44:43
of role play a little bit. And they can. say
44:46
some of those things out loud to a neutral third
44:48
party before they get into the mediation and
44:50
that can really help prepare people sometimes
44:52
just saying things out loud and hearing your
44:54
own voice say some of these things that you haven't
44:57
had the chance to speak is really powerful and
45:00
so we do some conflict coaching and we always
45:02
want to make sure that people feel prepared for
45:04
that mediation. And of course, just like any
45:06
other highly emotional situation, you can take
45:09
breaks at any time. You can step outside. No
45:11
one's going to force you to stay in that mediation
45:13
room. If things do get heated or emotional in
45:16
a way that you are maybe surprised by, we can
45:19
always kind of step away, come back in five minutes,
45:22
come back in five days, come back in five weeks
45:24
if we need to. So it's a very low pressure environment.
45:36
Have you ever had a conflict mediation session
45:40
where maybe emotions escalated? And someone felt
45:49
unsafe, perhaps. And then when maybe the police
45:54
needed to be called or something along those
45:56
lines. Has anything gotten really crazy like
45:58
that before? Thankfully, no, we've never had
46:00
to call the police. We absolutely have protocols
46:02
in place and we do annual training for safety
46:05
just because it is a highly emotional tinderbox
46:10
in here at times. And we recognize that. So,
46:13
no, we've never had to call the police, but we
46:15
do have our own personal training on safety.
46:17
We have safety protocols in place. You know,
46:20
we've got the alarms if we need them. We don't
46:23
allow any weapons on the property, of course,
46:24
which is a rule that we really stick to, especially
46:26
in Lewis County. People love to have their sidearms,
46:28
and that's not allowed in the mediation room.
46:31
But the mediators we have, whether they're staff
46:35
or volunteers, are really attuned to kind of
46:39
see where things are going. And as neutral third
46:42
parties, we have some good objective observation
46:45
skills because we are not blinded by the emotion
46:50
that they are. Sometimes we can see when things
46:52
are getting heated and we can separate, we can
46:54
calm down, we can use those de -escalation tactics
46:56
that we train others to use. We absolutely employ
46:59
those in the mediation rooms. usually they're
47:02
quite successful. Sometimes people just need
47:04
time. And so the session does need to end. And
47:07
we've had to do that a few times where we say,
47:08
okay, this has reached its natural conclusion
47:11
for today and we're going to separate and give
47:13
you some time. And that doesn't mean it's a failure.
47:15
It just means that, you know, we're full up on
47:17
emotion for that day and we need to separate
47:19
and come back another time. Oh, that's so good
47:22
to know and so helpful. Oh, good. I'm glad you
47:25
think so. Yeah. Do you work with other organizations
47:36
outside of the whole dispute resolution? Yes,
47:41
so we do. So we have partners in both counties
47:44
that are pretty strong. We work with the Salvation
47:45
Army in both counties as well. I sit on the board
47:48
for Cowlitz County Salvation Army Advisory Board.
47:50
Counties being? Lewis County and Cowlitz County.
47:52
Okay. And then we also work with the Lower Columbia
47:56
Community Action Program down in Cowlitz County.
47:59
They help a lot. I believe they have an arm up
48:01
here as well. They help with other services like
48:04
housing and providing funding for folks who are
48:07
looking for housing. Then it's formerly Cowlitz
48:12
-Wahkiakum Legal Aid, but I believe they've rebranded
48:14
as Timberland Legal Aid. They have started providing
48:16
services in Lewis County from Cowlitz County.
48:19
And so they can provide you with legal advice
48:22
that we can't. So I know that is a much needed
48:24
service in both Thurston and Lewis County is.
48:27
getting that affordable, approachable legal advice.
48:30
So a lot of times we'll refer people to their
48:33
services and say, you know, I think this is a
48:36
great solution that you've come up with, but
48:38
I think you should have an attorney take a look
48:39
at it. So we partner with them. Oh, that's awesome.
48:52
How can people get involved? Are you hiring?
48:56
Do you have volunteering, donating? Yeah. We're
49:01
not hiring right now. We have an amazing staff.
49:02
There's seven of us between the two counties
49:04
that kind of balance all of our programs, and
49:07
they're a very hardworking staff. I'm very lucky
49:10
in that regard. And then we do have kind of a
49:12
small cadre of volunteers who are well -trained.
49:16
They go through a basic mediator training, which
49:18
is a 40 -hour initial training. They do up to
49:22
12 hours of observing live mediations just as
49:25
a silent, you know, fly on the wall. And then
49:27
they have to go through a mock mediation and
49:29
a written test. Once they pass all of that, usually
49:32
takes six to 12 months, and then they can go
49:36
and be a co -mediator. So we use a co -mediation
49:38
model, meaning that any of your sessions, there's
49:41
going to be two mediators for any two parties
49:43
that are there. So they would be paired up with
49:45
a senior mediator who would kind of take the
49:47
lead, make sure everything stays on track and
49:49
follows the structure that we have. And then
49:52
after about a year of that, they can certify
49:55
to become a senior mediator. So yes, we take
49:57
volunteers. It is also a pretty stringent and
50:01
rigorous volunteer opportunity. I know it's not
50:03
for everyone. It takes some time. It takes some
50:05
commitment. We do provide the training at a very,
50:09
very discounted rate for folks who volunteer
50:11
with us. And then people can just come and volunteer
50:14
their time, which we are extremely grateful for.
50:16
We would not be able to operate at the level
50:18
we do without our army of volunteers. And then,
50:22
of course, we also take donations. So the donations
50:25
go to keep our fees low. We, you know, just do
50:30
one fundraiser year. We usually do the Give Local
50:32
South Puget Sound fundraiser, which we just did
50:35
in November. That's kind of our big push to raise
50:37
funds. We also receive some funds from the counties
50:41
to kind of keep the lights on, keep things moving
50:43
along so we can keep those fees low from people.
50:46
But yeah, we'll definitely take your donations.
50:57
Anyone out there listening, we do have a board
50:59
of directors and we're always looking to add
51:01
to that. So that's another way that you can volunteer.
51:03
It's a lot less time consuming. So we have about
51:08
10 board meetings a year. It's an hour long on
51:10
a Friday. Everybody just zooms in. But we're
51:14
looking for folks. We have three folks from Lewis
51:16
County, three folks from Cowlitz County, and
51:19
we would love to continue to add and get up to
51:21
maybe eight or 10. people any experience is welcome
51:24
because conflict is pretty universal. You probably
51:27
have some experience with it. We have some attorneys
51:29
on there. We've got some teachers on there. We've
51:32
got some retirees. We have some business professionals.
51:36
We would love to get some folks from Centralia
51:39
College on there or even someone from one of
51:42
the local high schools to pop in and be a board
51:44
member. We'd like to kind of diversify our age
51:46
range. So if you are looking for 20 hours a year
51:50
that you can spare to volunteer. We would love
51:52
to have you. There's a way that you can click
51:54
on our website. There's a little form you can
51:58
fill out if you'd like to be a board member.
51:59
We would love to talk with you. So what's the
52:02
process to become a board member? So you would
52:06
reach out to me and I would like to get to meet
52:09
you, have a conversation, find out what your
52:11
interest is and kind of what you're up to and
52:13
where you see yourself going. And then we have,
52:16
I think, a two -page application that kind of
52:18
talks about what other service organizations
52:20
you have been a part of or are currently a part
52:22
of and what your interest is in mediation. And
52:25
we take that to the board. We all talk about
52:28
you before you get there for a few minutes and
52:30
make sure that, you know, we don't have any conflicts
52:32
of interest. then we take a vote and bring you
52:36
on board. So it's pretty low key. We have a great
52:39
group right now. So if you have no board experience,
52:42
don't worry about it. We have some seasoned veterans
52:44
who would be able to kind of bring you under
52:45
their wing. And it's a really great way to be
52:48
involved in your community in a leadership role
52:50
with very little experience. And there's not
52:52
a lot of opportunities out there like that. So
52:54
yeah, it's a good opportunity if you're looking
52:57
to build your resume. Cool. Do you accept internships?
53:02
We have never had an internship, but that has
53:04
been something that we've been kicking around
53:06
for a long time just because dispute resolution
53:08
is half art, half science. And it's really one
53:11
of those hands -on skills like counseling or
53:14
teaching where an internship would be very useful.
53:17
So that is something that we've looked into,
53:19
but we've not done one yet. Okay, that's good
53:22
to know. Is there anything else you would like
53:33
to share? I would just like to encourage people
53:37
who have an interest in mediation to reach out
53:40
to your local DRCs and take a training. There's
53:43
the 40 hour training, which is obviously, you
53:45
know, time consuming, but there are smaller trainings
53:47
out there. There's videos out there. If you have
53:49
a family or if you have a job or if you see people.
53:54
you have conflict in your life. And whether or
53:56
not you're in the middle of that conflict, or
53:58
you're just observing it, you can help be a part
54:01
of the solution. And so I would say, you know,
54:03
our vision is to have communities where anyone
54:06
can approach conflict with confidence and hope.
54:10
And a lot of people do not approach conflict
54:13
with confidence and hope, but it is possible.
54:16
So I would just encourage you to reach out and
54:18
get the training, whether it's from our DRC,
54:20
someone else. You know, look up a TED Talk, look
54:23
up a video. Don't be afraid of conflict. It's
54:25
out there and it's not something that you have
54:28
to be afraid of. I love being a part of the Lewis
54:31
County nonprofit organization and happy to be
54:34
here today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much,
54:38
Laura. You're welcome. If you would like to learn
54:48
more, get involved, or find resolution, you can
54:51
go to communitymediationcenters .org for support
54:57
in Lewis and Cowlitz counties, or call 360 -623
55:03
-8061, or email lewis@communitymediationcenters
55:09
.org for Lewis County, and for Cowlitz, call
55:14
360 - 232 -8622 or email cowlitz@communitymediationcenters
55:23
.org. You can also stop by in person at 500 West
55:29
Main Street, number 11 in Centralia and 1338
55:34
Commerce Avenue Suite. For mediation in Thurston
55:41
County, visit MediateThurston .org. And to find
55:46
dispute resolution centers in other parts of
55:49
Washington, please visit ResolutionWA .org. Also
55:55
important to note is that the intake forms do
55:59
not work on Firefox, but do work on Microsoft
56:03
Edge and Google Chrome. Mac or Linux users, if
56:08
you have any trouble, please let Laura and her
56:10
team know. That's it for today's Resource Report
56:22
produced by Pathways to Agency. At Pathways to
56:26
Agency, we are driven by the belief that everyone
56:28
should have the tools and support to achieve
56:31
their goals and thrive in their communities.
56:34
Our mission is to bridge the gaps in understanding,
56:37
accessibility, and trust by connecting individuals
56:40
to resources and sharing information and processes
56:45
that can lead to personal and community growth.
56:49
Resource Report offers information about existing
56:52
and emerging nonprofits and resource organizations.
56:56
Find out more at pathwaystoagency .org. You can
57:01
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57:11
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57:16
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57:19
conducted by Resource Report. Till next time,
57:22
and thanks for listening.