Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #154: Beyond Sugar: The REAL Culprit Behind Chronic Disease with Dr. Chris Knobbe

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Episode #154: Beyond Sugar: The REAL Culprit Behind Chronic Disease with Dr. Chris Knobbe · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: When I present the data that, for example, coronary heart disease was just virtually unknown in the 19th century worldwide.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's just a handful of cases.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: There was no known Alzheimer's disease.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Never been published until 1908.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Obesity was 1.2% in Americans.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: People then will say, well, they didn't get these diseases because they didn't live live long enough.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: For example, in the United States, they will say, well, in 1900, Americans only survived to an average age of 47, which is absolutely true.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: And they don't understand why that is.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough here with our favorite farmer, Joel Salatin.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And today, Joel and I are thrilled to host a special guest, Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Chris Kenobi.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's a physician and eye surgeon who became a nutrition researcher.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: After 15 years of battling arthritis, Dr.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Kenobi made a few tweaks to his diet and his condition improved dramatically.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: After he witnessed that miracle, he became the Sherlock Holmes of the nutrition world.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: He began asking questions such as could macular degeneration, which is a leading cause of blindness in developed nations, so could that condition be linked to the Western diet?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, could it be preventable or even reversible?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: This curiosity, along with years of digging deep into the ancestral way of life, led to his book, The Ancestral Diet Revolution, how vegetable oils and processed foods destroy our health, and how to recover.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Kenobi is here to unveil the hidden villains in our modern diet that aren't just messing with our eyes, but are sparking a wildfire of chronic and autoimmune diseases.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: But don't worry, it's not all going to be about doom and gloom.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's also going to provide solutions from challenging the omega-3 supplement craze to dropping the bombshell that sugar is not public enemy number one.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Kenobi is here to take us on a wild ride through the grocery aisles of truth.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: He is a clinical associate professor emeritus at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a hand filled.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he's the founder of Ancestral Health Foundation, as well as the founder of Cure AMD Foundation, the latter of which relates to age-related macular degeneration.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Dr.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Kenovi.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Dr.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Cena and Joel.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me on your show.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is such a privilege to have you here.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've been reading your book, The Ancestral Diet Revolution.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is packed with great information.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: What I really admire about it, and as our listeners know, um, as a scientist, I'm a stickler for people having original sources, multiple sources, backing up their statements, not just making wild claims.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you've done that in this book.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is also a beautiful book filled with tons of pictures and graphs, and some of those you're going to share with us today.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what I want to do though is start out with this basic question, because I get this all the time when I talk about healing.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one way to heal is to return to more of a way that our ancient ancestors ate and lived.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: The pushback that I get is that when you Google it, oftentimes it will say, Oh, life expectancy of the early humans, like the hunter-gatherers, was around like 25 years old, right?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so the common criticism is, well, they didn't live long enough to develop chronic or autoimmune diseases.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So of course we didn't see those diseases appear in that population.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can you expand upon that and basically de debunk that myth that hunters and hunters and gatherers really only lived about 25 years?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure, Cena, because um this is a common uh question that I get immediately.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh um is that uh when I when I present the data that, for example, coronary heart disease was just virtually unknown in the 19th century worldwide.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's just a handful of cases.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was no there was no known Alzheimer's disease, never been published until 1908.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um obesity was 1.2% in Americans.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um cancer was far more unusual.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: I could go into that data later, but um we go on and on.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Age-related macro degeneration was an extraordinary rarity.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so people then will say, well, they didn't get these diseases because they didn't live along, live long enough.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: For example, in the United States, they will say, well, in 1900, Americans only survived to an average age of 47, which is absolutely true.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And they don't understand why that is.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So at no point in history, in any population in the world, um, civilized or quote, uncivilized uh tribal like populations, what did anyone ever or did any of these populations ever have an average age of death that was um that was low because they were dying at early ages, like 40s and 50s.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's never happened anywhere.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: The reason that the um that the uh life expectancy at birth, LEB, was so low is because of very high childhood mortality all around the world.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: So in 1800, 43.3 percent of children did not live to see their their fifth birthday.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And in 1900, it wasn't much better.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: 36.2% of children around the world did not live to see their fifth birthday, and 4% of women died in childbirth in the United States in 1900.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you can see that drops the that average uh life expectancy down dramatically.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so for example, hunter-gatherers, well, Gervin and Kaplan researchers, they did they they they analyzed this in great detail and they determined that if hunter-gatherers survive past the age of 15, that their modal or their most common age of death was 72.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: So they typically live into their 60s, 70s, and even 80s.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: And we we've seen, you know, a number of these hunter-gatherers where they're living into their 90s or even hundreds.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I mean, that's quite rare anywhere to live beyond 100.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, but that's why.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, so it the fact that hunter-gatherers don't get these diseases is not because they die before they could get them.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the same thing with 19th century Americans.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: All populations live into their elder years um if they survive childhood, general, generally speaking.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is it that's different then in the diets of even the people's people in the 1800s, you know, before the Industrial Revolution, going back to the hunter-gatherers?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: In your deep dive into this research, what did you pinpoint as what is different in our diets today?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so in two words, it's processed foods.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: But what are processed foods?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're really just three or possibly you'd say four things make up the enormous bulk of them.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's um refined flours, refined sugars, vegetable oils, mostly industrial seed oils, and trans fats.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that you I said you could call this three things because the industrial trans fats come from seed oils.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Without seed oils, you won't really be able to produce trans fats in any significant amount uh in any possible way.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: So so really today we we really just mostly have to worry about in terms of you know getting rid of processed food, just three things refined flours, refined sugars, and vegetable oils.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: But of those, this is where my work has taken me is that um everywhere I look, Sina and Joel, it I I see that it's the vegetable oils, particularly the industrial seed oils, that are the huge drivers of all of this of overweight, obesity, and all this chronic disease: coronary heart disease, stroke, cancers, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, Alzheimer's disease, slash dementia, age-related macular degeneration, autoimmune diseases, birth defects, the list goes on.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to dive deeper into that, but first to bring our readers and or listeners into this along with us, how prevalent is our consumption, our modern-day consumption of seed oils, and compare that.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: When did seed oils arrive on the scene?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: So almost the entire world had no consumption of seed oils up through 1865.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the at the end of the American Civil War.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right after that, the first oil, cottonseed oil, was introduced to Americans.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, they had trivial amounts of olive oil prior to that, um, you know, for centuries.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, but cottonseed oil was introduced right after the American Civil War, about 1866, and then soybean oil in 1909, and then all of the others, you know, there was just an onslaught of all the others.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So today, the the the what I would call the dangerous industrial oil industrial oils would be soybean, corn, canola, cottonseed, rapeseed, grapeseed, sunflower, safflower, and rice bran.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the worst of the worst.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so you run that list one more time just to slow it down just a little bit.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I take notes, but I'm also I'm I'm as a farmer, I'm thinking, how much of this farmers produce?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you have that element as well.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not just what Americans are eating, but but suddenly in farmland America, uh you know, suddenly we weren't we weren't eating sunflowers.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: We were we we suddenly found sunflower oil in our we weren't eating tofu, we weren't eating whole soybeans, we were we were pressing out the oil and using that.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, um from from a farmer, from a farmer production standpoint, run down that list again.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You got soybeans, corn, rapeseed, canola, canola, rapeseed, grapeseed, sunflower, safflower, and rice bran.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Those are what I call the worst of the worst, Joel, um, because these are the most heavily processed.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: But and getting back to your question, Cena, about how much did we consume?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: So the so Americans consumed less than a tenth of a gram of any kind of edible oil before 1865.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that would have been that would have been olive oil.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so then cottonseed oil was introduced in 1866.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: By 1900, seed oil consumption was about, or edible oil consumption was about one gram per person per day.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: It jumped to nine grams per person per day in 1909, up to 19 grams by 1961, and to 80 grams per person per day by 2010.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, let me also tell you this, just while we're at it.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: So obesity in the United States uh was 1.2% in the last decades of the 19th century.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So from about 1860 or so to 1900, um, Scott Allen Carson's work um on men age 18 to 80 shows that obesity was 1.2% up through 1900.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So obesity then increased to 13.4 percent by 1961 or 1960, which is when seed oils were 19 grams a day, and then obesity to 42.5 percent by 2018.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's when seed oils were um 80 grams per person per day.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you like, I could let me pop in this uh this uh graph.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: That would be great.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: A visual would be great, and describe it, please, for our people who are listening and not viewing it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can you also um translate that into like what percentage of calories per day would that have been?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: I could give you the percent of calories in terms of the omega-6, but I couldn't.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me tell you this.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we went from in terms of calories in the American diet, it would have been zero in 1865.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in 1900, it would have been um less than 1% um in terms of edible oils.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um by, and I just would jump have to jump to the end, Cena.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So by 2010, um, we're consuming 720 calories worth of seed oil.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's 80 grams per person per day.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's 32% of US caloric consumption.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we went from zero in 1865 to 32% of U.S.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: chloric consumption by 2010.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So a third, at least a fourth, if not a third, of the diet was supplanted and replaced by seed oils in this 145-year period.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a huge shift in dietary intake for a population that's huge.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I say.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is the single greatest change to the diet of mankind in all in all of history.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing else compares to this.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Not nothing else even comes close, including sugar.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was just gonna say, not even sugar, because that's what we hear about is you know, it's all up, it's all up to the sugar.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you want to explain this graph that we're seeing?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yes.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is basically, unfortunately, I just kind of went through it, but you can see there obesity was 19 in 1900 was 1.2 percent.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's when again, vegetable oils were one gram a day.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: 1961, you can see obesity was 13.4 percent.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: What was vegetable oils?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: 19 grams a day.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Jump to 2018, obesity is 42.5 percent.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: What are vegetable oils?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right about 80 grams per person per day.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: They do I I think it's interesting, or our our pay our folks need to understand that this was liter literally, correct me if I'm wrong, um, Dr.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Kenobi, but um this was literally not possible until the industrial revolution.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: The the the mechanization, the the industrial mechanics to physically extract these oils, it it just wasn't possible.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in primitive, you know, you couldn't do it with with stones rubbing together.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't do it uh easily with a press.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so it took the it took the mechanical, the industrial revolution mechanics to be able to create the infrastructure, even to be able to break these oils out of things that that you know we could say, well, you know, they just weren't eaten much because they just weren't they they just weren't eaten much.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's exactly correct.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the um so there was no there was no uh mechanism to produce uh vegetable oils on a large scale, but vegetable oils were being produced, um you know, uh in the even in the 17th, in the 18th and and early 19th centuries before we began to consume them as food, but they were used as machine oil and lamp oil and then fertilizer before they ever became food.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And when they when the industrialists tried to sell vegetable oils as food to Americans, Americans weren't having it because, um, here I'll stop the share.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh they knew they knew that cottonseed oil was a machine oil or a lamp oil, primarily, right?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I say it's it's be a little bit like uh, you know, telling Americans today that they should consume motor oil.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, everybody knows we shouldn't be doing that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: So so what they did was they, you know, they they created margarine, which is a mixture of butter and these oils, and then they had began to adulterate olive oil with these uh with these edible oils with cottonseed oil.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then finally they made Crisco, which is trans fats, um, which came out in 1911.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how they got them into the food supply.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And because they've gradually brought them into the food supply and told Americans that they were healthy, Americans bought that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: That they bought it, hook, line, and sinker.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and and so this is a perfect way to get a poison into the food supply.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And when I do mean poison, these are what I call chronic metabolic biological poisons.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: These edible oils, very high in omega-6 fat, accumulate in our body fat and set up an uh an environment that's pro-oxidative, pro-inflammatory, toxic, and nutrient deficient.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: You put those what I call four pillars of hazard together, and you've got the perfect recipe to drive overweight, obesity, and uh all this chronic disease like coronary heart disease, cancers, diabetes, and so on.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you have other graphs, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: That you just showed us the one where obesity rate has tracked um alongside the increase in these the consumption of these seed oils, but you have those graphs that look almost identical for a numerous other diseases as well, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Numerous other chronic diseases.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share that with us just so people know?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not just about like obesity, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: This you have connected these highly processed seed oils with practically every chronic or autoimmune disease we could imagine.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: That is correct.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: This next uh graph is you can see is entitled Saturated Fat and Vegetable Oil versus Heart Disease Deaths in the USA.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to enlarge that there so you can see the whole thing.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: And um, we published this graph in medical hypotheses back in 2017, and you can see that the vegetable oil increase uh over the century.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is 1900 to 2020, and you can see the vegetable oils in the black increase over the century, and that they follow the heart disease deaths, and then you and then you'll see that the heart disease deaths after the about 1970s begins to uh to come down.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the primary reason that heart disease deaths are coming down is because of great reduction in smoking.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you can see that the saturated fat consumption through the century was flat.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: It only increased five grams between 1909 and about 2010, um, is where that data ends.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, so there's heart disease right there.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so just to uh see if I'm summarizing this correctly, deaths from heart disease, you're saying over time they've tracked with the increase in vegetable oil consumption as well as smoking.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the saturated fat, based on your research, is not a primary or even a contributor to heart disease death.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is that accurate?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: That is absolutely accurate.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I would say that saturated fat is an incredible uh protector of coronary heart disease.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I uh looking at all of the different populations, both historically and hunter-gatherers, I do not believe that coronary heart disease can occur in any significant degree without vegetable oils.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: All of the hunter-gatherer populations that do not have coronary heart disease, they have no vegetable oils, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: They that so their omega-6 consumption is under 2% of their consumed calories.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas in Americans, omega-6 linoleic acid, which is the primary omega-6 fatty acid in any fat, um uh had increased to 11.8% by 2008.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we went from our omega-6 linoleic acid was 1.1% of the diet approximately in 1865 when we had no seed oils.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: That increased to 11.8 percent of the diet um by uh two by 200 uh eight.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: I should have brought this up sooner, but you can see the increase in the omega-6 linoleic acid between 1865 and 2008.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I will let you know that this graph has not yet been published.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So this is pending uh scientific publication.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: But this is the data that me and my my team has worked on.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: We we uh analyzed the typical diet of Americans in 1865.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we modeled that diet.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically the equivalent of any ancestral diet, um, but based specifically on America.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Americans and they did not have seed oils.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: They did not have, they did not consume monogastric animals that would be high in omega-6, like chicken and pork that are chicken and pigs that are fed corn and soy diets.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And they did not have significant amounts of nuts and seeds, which can also raise your omega-6.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: But the primary problem far and away is the vegetable oils.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we're looking at omega-6s, we're also concerned with the ratio, right, of the omega-3s to the omega-6s.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: So how did how did that change?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like how has our, you've shown nicely in this graph that our omega-6 consumption has dramatically increased from about 1% to almost 12%.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I've read in the literature about hunter-gatherers, you know, it's it's hypothesized how much they actually consumed of omega-6s versus omega-3.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: But from what I've read, it's around a one-to-one ratio, or maybe at most a two to one ratio of six to threes.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So compare that with our modern diet.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: We see this graph nicely plotting out that we have dramatically increased our omega-6 consumption, which do tend to be in general more pro-inflammatory, pro-oxidant.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: But what's happened to our omega-3 levels in modern times?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So just as you said, Cena, um, in ancestral populations, including Americans and hunter-gatherers, um, the evidence does show that the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio was anywhere from about one to one to possibly four to one.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas today in Western populations, it's um 20 to 1 up to even 40 to 1 or possibly even higher.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, but but but while we're on the subject, I just want to say I don't think there's any possible way to fix that problem by consuming more omega-3.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: That just it doesn't work.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the evidence for that is is very uh minimal that it's that it's beneficial.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not saying that it's worthless to increase your omega-3.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what I'm saying.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm but what I am uh suggesting is that high omega-6 diets, in and of themselves, they are exceedingly dangerous.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the so the way to deal with it is not to consume more omega-3, it's to reduce your omega-6 consumption.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's absolutely right.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only way to correctly deal with this problem.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: You have to get the omega-6 down because the omega-6 is going to drive that pro-oxidative, pro-inflammatory, toxic, and nutrient-deficient biological environment.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you cannot fix that with high omega-3.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like trying to add trying to add Kool-Aid to a bottle of uh cyanide and hoping that you can you can you can finally add enough Kool-Aid that you can drink cyanide.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love that, Joel.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I just want to add that um this is actually how I met Dr.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Kenobi is I was writing an article about um a new study that came out that was showing that there was a 50% increased risk of developing atrial fibrillation in healthy individuals who consumed omega-3 supplements on a daily basis.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So this was a little bit shocking to me.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a deep dive into it and I found that we have many studies showing um increased risk of various markers of heart disease from healthy people consuming omega-3 supplements.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, and then I went deeper and I said, what other conditions have we been told by mainstream um can be helped through omega-3 supplementation that possibly is actually harming us?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And even things like in um in cancer research, there's a lot of studies showing that it actually can fuel cancer.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the studies that I found where they showed a positive effect were all studies that actually supplemented them with an omega-3, but it was only to bring the the ratio back down to like a two to one ratio.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they supplemented them while removing omega-6s from the diet, which is exactly what you're talking about.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna these according to these numerous studies, if you want to use omega-3s to achieve a healthier state, you know, and maybe stave off chronic or autoimmune diseases, it's not effective to just consume more omega-3s.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to take out these omega-6s and return back to that ancestral ratio.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And just, and we don't need to get deep into the science, but one of the reasons is because the sixes and the threes tend to compete for um similar enzymes in the same pathway.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the sixes tend to outcompete those threes.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, so it's really important.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so what this one is one thing that really resonated with me.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Joel and I on this podcast, we try to find we're seeking truth, you know, and we really want to promote and support people who are strong enough um and have the courage and the faith enough to speak the truth, especially when it goes against the grain.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this definitely goes against the grain.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I guess, which is also tend to be high in mega sixes, by the way, or grains.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: But but I just want to throw that in, just a support, um, to help substantiate the claims that you're making.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is established in the scientific literature.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's just most of us are not aware of it.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not what we're hearing in the mainstream.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: See, no, I don't know how much time we have left, um, but I I would like to share a graph on sugar and vegetable oil versus obesity.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: That would be fabulous.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're pulling that, yeah, as you're pulling that up, let me just share.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is like show and tell, like we're back in kindergarten.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um I wanted to just share as we're talking about this, how prevalent these seed oils really are.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's one thing to talk about you know, the grams and the percent of calories, but let's really bring this home to people because these seed oils can be hidden in what some of us consider healthier alternatives to you know the conventional processed foods, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to share a couple of them.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a bag of um simple truth, grain-free tortilla shells, uh, sorry, tortilla chips, and the second ingredient is sunflower seed oil.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have these organic, simple mill crackers, and they have sunflower oil in them as well.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so then we have these organic cranberries that also have sunflower seed oil on top of them.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this is my last chair.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is a bag of it says roasted almonds that are lightly salted.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I got these on the airplane.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, on the back of it, it says almonds, sunflower, and or canola, and or refined soybean, andor cotton seed oil and salt.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's crazy.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's even on it's on the outside of nuts sometimes.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So so I encourage people, like when we get done with this episode, just go through your pantry.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, most of us, even us, you know, food foodies, we we eat processed foods.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So these seed oils may be lurking in your pantry in what we consider healthier processed foods.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: But go ahead, Dr.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Kenobi.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, show us about tell us about sugar.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh um, seeing Anjola, you could you guys cannot call me doctor.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't let anybody call me doctor, by the way.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: So please just Chris.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so this graph this is US obesity versus sugar and vegetable oil consumption, 1922 to 1987.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I specifically picked this period of time because we've got we've shown data.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't we didn't have time to go into this today, but the sugar consumption, um, it you know, it's been increasing since uh 1822 uh uh substantially, all right.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: But most of the increase in sugar consumption in the US was before 1922, as you'll see in this graph.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: So so for those who can see it, we can see the sugar is in the green curve.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you can see that in 1922, sugar consumption was 473 calories.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: By the end of this graph on the far right, in 1987, sugar consumption was 497 calories.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that's an increase of 24 calories, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, between 1922 and 1987.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's an increase of 5%.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you look down at the bottom in blue, you see the vegetable oil consumption in 1922 was 78 calories.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that increased in the far right to 1987 to 550 calories.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, what happened to the obesity during this time?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was 2.95% in 1922.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was 18.6% in 1987.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, to summarize, during this period, 1922 to 1987, sugar increased 5%, vegetable oils increased 605%, obesity increased 532%.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to remind us all this is a 65-year period of time.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: This data right here to me is incredibly powerful because for those who are sugar theorists and who believe that sugar is driving obesity and diabetes and all this, they don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to this correlational data because you can see here there is no correlation between sugar consumption and obesity.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it is even it is even more stark contrast for um diabetes.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: You have a graph for diabetes?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say that while you're looking for the the graph, this is this was shocking to me because we're, I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but we keep hearing this rhetoric that oh, we eat more sugar now than ever before.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Our kids eat more sugar now than ever before.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and you look around, and I do see a lot of kids, like all the soda that they're consuming, for instance, and you got candy at all the functions, and even Sunday schools will give out candy if you memorize Bible verses and whatnot.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like it's true, right, Joel?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I'm not the only one that's seeing this.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's either that or it's either that or goldfish.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just it seems like the it feels like we consume more sugar, but is that just because I'm a parent now, so I'm just more aware of it?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because clearly the data is showing that we have not increased that much of sugar intake, you know, at least since the time that I've been alive.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Man, think you know, think about uh like Little House on the Prairie book, Cena, and and all the uh the socials, the taffy pulls, the um I mean there uh the the amount of maple syrup and honey that was consumed.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: There was there was a lot of of dainties uh consumed.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I've never actually seen this, uh Chris.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is just fascinating to me.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um maybe maybe you you've got a better handle on that, but but I'm thinking back of the oh, you know, little women and and and the the old stuff that I've seen or read, and they were always going to a party with with sugary dainties.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: You mean like in the 19th century?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Americans loved their uh their um sugary, their sweets, their treats.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: They made um, you know, you if you went to a party, you showed up with uh pies and cakes.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um and um they you can see if you look at all the cookbooks, uh often a third of the cookbooks are dedicated to um sweets, you know, everything from donuts to um pies and cakes and so cookies and so on.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: So this is why most of the sugar consumption, the sugar increase had already occurred before 1922.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: But so this graph Wait, can I ask you a quick question about that?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, would the source of sugar, though, make a difference?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, not just you know, our consumption hasn't really changed, but has our source changed?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, I'm thinking back then maybe we had more like honey or maple syrup, and and now we'd have like the high fructose corn syrup, like more highly refined processed sugars.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, has that actually changed and would that make a difference in disease prevalence?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that does make a difference, but they weren't using, for the most part, honey and maple syrup in their baking.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: They were using granulated sugar, okay, um, just like we do, but it would have been, of course, um organic, cane sugar, uh, cane or beet sugar, I believe, but it certainly would have been organic and and uh wouldn't been coming from um, you know, wouldn't have been uh none of the those um the uh sources of food would have been sprayed with herbicides and pesticides.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's the that's part of the difference.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: But and when I'm talking about sugar, by the way, I'm glad you brought this up.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm including all forms of sugar.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is so important.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: I so it's so hard for me to remember to say this every time, but this this data comes from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations and the um the USDA.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And their data is both the same.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: The sugar includes all forms of added sugar, so all forms of table sugar, all forms of syrups.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: So corn syrup, hyfructus corn syrup, maple syrup, honey, all forms of um sugar-sweetened beverages.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: The only so when I show sugar here, this is every form of added sugar there is.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: The only sugar that would be in the diet that does is not included here comes from fruit and vegetables and um pressed fruits, like you know, whole fruit juice that was just pressed fruit.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, this data, if I go on to this one, this is that you asked me to show the the diabetes uh graph.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: So this is US diabetes prevalence versus sugar and vegetable consumption, 1922 to 1987.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: So the data on the sugar consumption between 1922 and 1987 is exactly the same as I presented previously.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then the diabetes you can see increased from 0.09% in 1922 to 2.6% in 1987.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so let me summarize what happened here.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: So during this period, again, 1922 to 1987, sugar increased 5%, vegetables increased 605%, diabetes increased 2,800% or 29-fold.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Again, a 65-year period.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it, you know, the diabetes at 2.6% in 1987.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's the diabetes prevalence is 13% as of 2016 in the United States.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: And again, and this uh this occurred during a period here.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'll show the very next graph on diabetes.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: You can see here that this this graph on the far left begins at 1991 when diabetes was 2.97%, but you can see it creased to 13% by 2016.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: But look at the sugar.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: After 1999, the added sugar consumption is on the downward trend, right?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's been going down since 1999.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's two databases, whether you look at the FAO or the USDA, sugar has been going down either since 1999 or 2004 at the latest.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: And while obesity and diabetes have gone through the roof.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's remarkable.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, so that's sugar consumption in the US.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes or okay, not um not globally.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: So just US, we're seeing the sugar consumption go down.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: The sugar consumption globally has been uh very, very, very flat uh over the last number of decades.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's very little change in sugar consumption.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's I can't remember the exact date, and I don't have it handy here, but I think it changed no more than 5% globally in the last uh five decades or so.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: And carbohydrate consumption actually went slightly down since the 1960s through about 2010.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: It went it went down from 64.5% of calories to 63%.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Again, this is global.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh, but again, the vegetable oil consumption has just been a never-ending increase.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: So the world's consumption, we're prepared to, we've submitted this for publication, but in vegetable oil consumption globally was less than 0.1 grams per person per day in 1865.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: By 2010, I believe the year was, it had increased to over 65 grams per person per day.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, in other words, a more than a 650-fold increase in global consumption of edible oils between 1865 and about 2010.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, those numbers are staggering.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they remind me of like in uh 1940, the US consumed 1 million pounds of monosodium glutamate, and today we consume 300 million pounds of monosodium glutamate.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's almost one pound per person per year of just monosodium, monosodium glutamate.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: We've gone from grandma saying every kid should eat uh 12, uh eat a pound of dirt before they're 12 to, you know, every kid needs to eat a pound of monosodium glutamate every every year, you know.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's uh it's nuts.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: We we really are uh are bumping time.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so fascinating.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh wow, we could keep you on all day, just really good stuff.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I guess I would like to um I would like to ask uh a question.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you were gonna name uh in the average home, name the most like the the the five biggest vegetable oil, seed oil culprits, what would they be?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the top two, Joel, would certainly be soybean and canola.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the most consumed in the United States.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't really know what you know the next three would be in order.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: That that previous list that they gave you, that would be the ones that everybody needs to get rid of.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: I got all that, but but I mean actual foods.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: We don't we don't actually eat soybeans, we don't have to be a food.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, food.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about food.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, are we talking about like breakfast foods?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are we talking about uh you know uh frozen foods?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what give me give me kind of a I mean you can even give a brand as if you want to.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're not we don't have advertisers, so we don't care about brands, but but give me a you know, like the environmental working group has like the the dirty dozen, you know, of of it has the highest.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, what's what's three or four like uh things that that I would that I would want to whatever uh remove from my pantry.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm glad you said three or four because I'm I'm racking my brain to try to come up with these.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the some of the top ones, the number one worst thing would be French fries.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're they can hold a lot of uh seed oils.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and perhaps, and and we because we eat a lot of them, at least in fast food, um, number one or two would also be um chicken nuggets.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so they're breaded, and they the both the chicken and the breading can hold a lot of vegetable oils, and they're all cooked in vegetable oil.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that that's a huge source of vegetable oils, those two things.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, potato chips are pretty high up there.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I don't know, it's the here's the thing is that every single processed food there is in the grocery store, and then you know, all restaurant foods and all fast foods, they if there's an added oil or an oil that's cooked in, it's almost a hundred percent going to be vegetable oil, some kind of these industrial seed oils.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so again, this is how it's it's you know, the little things really can add up.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you get a half a gram here and two grams there, and you eat things like uh french fries, and you're gonna get you could get 20 grams, and I think you can get or 15 grams or something, depending on the size, and you can get 20 plus grams of seed oils out of chicken nuggets or chicken McNuggets, for example.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, plus the chicken, usually in those chicken nuggets, they would have been fed like the corn or the soy.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then you're getting more omega sixes than that, and then they're breaded usually by with some type of you know, highly processed grain flour that is also usually higher in omega sixes.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a triple whammy when you're consuming those nuggets, you know.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, so I would love to um end on a positive if we could.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, in your book, Torres.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: The back of the book, you list 10 major rules to take charge of your health destiny, which I love that because we're all about empowering people, educating, and empowering people on this program.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: So could you maybe share maybe your top three rules for how to basically empower yourself and take charge of your health destiny?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh oh, well, I don't know what I have.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can breathe into you.
• 44:25
  unknown: Okay.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can comment.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, number one is going to be that you have to prepare your own food to in order to get uh to get vegetable oils, the the the highly polyunsaturated industrial seed oils out of your diet, you must prepare your food.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you're eating processed food, you're going to be eating the vegetable oil.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's number number one.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you you you got a gold star that is your number one in the book.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and let's touch on this real fast because in that you mentioned extra virgin olive oil, which is often a favorite of foodies.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but there's a caveat for that, right?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: That with the issue of adulteration.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is your advice for people who would like to or have been consuming extra virgin olive oil?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: You have to absolutely confirm if you're consuming olive oil, that it is authentic, that it's real and it is not adulterated, because in the United States, the I believe it's the North American Olive Oil Association confirmed that 79% of so-called extra virgin olive oils do not meet their criteria for good quality, which means they're adulterated or they're aged, they're poorly bottled, they're poorly prepared, they're they're uh they're too old.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh, you know, even by the time they're they hit the shelf or you buy them.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't trust olive oil unless I could go to the olive oil manufacturer and see that you know the process and absolutely confirm I'm just very suspicious of olive oils.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's very sad.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter where they come from, they're especially adulterated coming out of Italy.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh this is that you know, this is a uh a sort of an underground operation because olive oil, true authentic olive oil is an expensive oil to make.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: And this is why, and it's easy to adulterate.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: And most people around the world now can't tell the difference in terms of the taste because the um the industrial seed oils have almost no taste.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, people that are used to consuming good quality olive oil, they know the difference just by tasting it.
• 46:43
  unknown: Okay.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is one of this this is one of the things that's driving the driving the demand for lard.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're at our at our farm, we're just seeing a almost a straight line up of requests for lard.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we've always we've always given a recipe where you know we'd sell like a uh a five-pound baggie, you know, with a recipe of how you can use a crock pot and make your own lard.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Chris, most people don't want their convenience, right?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've we've just actually in the last three weeks, we finally found a uh a commissary that was inspectable and compliant to actually make you know lard that we could legally sell.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and we're selling it, and there's just a huge demand for for lard, especially from pastured, you know, from pastured pork, pastured animals.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and I could brilliant.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I could not have planned this better myself because your second tip is animal fats are best for cooking.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, but let me share one third tip and just get you to comment on it.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Can I just say one one thing?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just I we cook everything in butter.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Everything.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need any other cooking fat.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Lard would be great, tallow, beef tallow would be great, as long as they're you know, the animals are ancestrally raised, or preferably if they're ancestrally raised, but I just cook everything in butter.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's sorry to interrupt, Cena.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's very helpful.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to share one more tip from you.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love this one because often health practitioners leave this one out to get regular sun exposure and sleep.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: So critically important.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's you know, vitamin D, and there's many other factors that we won't have time to go into that that come from sunlight, but sunlight exposure on unprotected skin is incredibly important.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: And this is, I'm gonna give you a staggering statistic that probably both of you know is that 90% of the vitamin D that typical Westerners like Americans are getting is coming from sunlight.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: And this is incredible because they're avoiding the sun.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, they're trying to cover up and they're trying to they're using sunscreens like they've been told to do, because God forbid sun causes sunlight causes skin cancer and and so forth.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, we're getting 90% of our vitamin D from that little bit of sunlight, and we need so much more.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Vitamin D is so incredibly important.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we've seen a lot of people that are showing up with vitamin D deficiencies now, even if it's if it's just subclinical deficiency, it's it's critical.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, this has been so fascinating.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, tell us tell our listeners and our viewers where can they find you?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll also put all of these links in the show description.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for asking.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: So um so listeners, uh viewers can come to Ancestral Health Foundation.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's at Ancestral Health Foundation.org.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or they can come to Cure AMD Foundation at cure amd.org.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or um I actually have a website uh a little more personal, but it's Chris Kenobi.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's C-H-R-I-S-K-N-O-B-E.com.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: Chris Kenobi.com.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh they can they can sign up for a newsletter and um and get some further information there.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll put a link to the book as well.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's the Ancestral Diet Revolution.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel, do you want to close us out with a question to our community?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Put you on the spot.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that you yeah, you do put me on the spot.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh pass the buck off to you.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so my question to our community would be go to your pantry, go to your pantry, and what food did you find there that you were surprised uh that you thought was good, but had like vegetable oil as a as a second or third ingredient?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: What what what surprised you as you went and looked at your pantry?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's my question.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Share it with us.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being with us, Chris.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: You've been delightful.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this has been just a fascinating, uh, fascinating uh discussion.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope we get to meet someday uh too.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh thank you all for listening to another episode of Beyond Labels, and uh we look forward to visiting with you again next week.